But Diane Abbott used to have an Afro! Now she wears it long and doesn't support the IRA.
More seriously didn't Trump used to be considered a sort of non-card carrying Democrat and quite close to the Clintons at that? Before he went crazy (or not - delete according to Party ID). Could be wrong but I seem to remember Cruz making an issue of it.
Call your grandfolks - and get an earful from them about what the 1970s were really like the last time we let the lunatics run the asylum?
I'm not certain we should call Ted Heath a lunatic, but this just seems to be replay of what Obama did first time round.
There's no real downside to this for Labour, it's unlikely to cost them any votes and any gain is better than nothing.
In the big picture, it's too little, too late. You can't do this 48 hours prior to polling and expect it to work. There's a lesson for the next Labour leader though, from day 1 he should be putting vast energies into reaching to the 65+ demographics. Policy should be focused grouped at Saga, not at University. It's the vital election winning demographic they are failing with.
Things did go wrong 78/9 for the Labour Government but TBH they were exacerbated by what had happened 70-74 under Heath. Wilson steadied the ship, especially after Oct 74. His resignation seemed, in retrospect, to upset things. What did throw everything of course were the oil crises and problems in the Middle East.
That’s my memory of those times, and I was 40 during the decade.
PS. Plus of course, Northern Ireland. Which could be put down to 40+ years of ignoring Civil Rights by the Unionists.
Do you see Corbyn and Abbott as of the same calibre as Callaghan & Rees? Or McDonald, Healey?
Why do you think Abbott will be the Home Secretary or even be in the cabinet ?
Nick Clegg on fire on the Today programme. He really does not like Mrs May......
He's not alone in that.
Nick Clegg.. yesterdays man. Noone cares what he thinks,
For the first time in a long time I found myself not only agreeing with what Nick Clegg said, but actually believing that he himself believed it.
It is extraordinary that a PM who has been wholly responsible for the conduct of anti-terror policies over the past 7 years should 2 days before a GE be campaigning on a "time for a change" banner. Introducing red herrings to deflect from her own manifest failings. We now know the authorities didn't even have the resources to keep prioritising surveillance of someone who anyone that watched that Channel 4 documentary could see represented a manifest threat. We now know that the operation of international watch lists is useless when our pared back border security is so poor that a self confessed terrorist is allowed in regardless of being on those lists. Instead we see (as Clegg rightly points out) a scoundrel of a PM now posturing for electoral advantage on a platform that it's all down to human rights when adopting that bogus line would actually make the prospect of international cooperation much harder to achieve.
He said labour want European health and benefit spending at UK tax levels and it simply impossible. He also said labour's corporation tax proposals would not work. He did not hold back any punches
There's a lesson for the next Labour leader though, from day 1 he should be putting vast energies into reaching to the 65+ demographics. Policy should be focused grouped at Saga, not at University. It's the vital election winning demographic they are failing with.
Or she.
I agree, and you can extend the lesson.
If you want to put roughly 1/4 of your entire current spending pledges into one headline policy, it's better to make the main beneficiaries those who are old enough to vote. So focus on writing off a large amount of tuition fee debt of those in their late 20s and 30s as well as reducing the additional 9% income tax rate that all basic rate taxpaying graduates this millenia effectively pay, rather than putting all your eggs into abolishing tuition fees for a new generation of future voters aged 18 or less.
What about a compromise between the two? Make student loan repayments tax deductible?
I took that remark as a sign Surbiton didn't expect Labour to win the election (which I'm pretty sure has been his position all the way through).
Although Corbyn's non-endorsement is interesting it's not conclusive. Who could forget the time he twice evaded a question before shouting 'Didn't you hear what I said? Of course I will stay as leader.' He genuinely appears not to get that politician speak is not always ummm, clear. He knows what he means after 34 years in Parliament, why don't we?
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
But Diane Abbott used to have an Afro! Now she wears it long and doesn't support the IRA.
More seriously didn't Trump used to be considered a sort of non-card carrying Democrat and quite close to the Clintons at that? Before he went crazy (or not - delete according to Party ID). Could be wrong but I seem to remember Cruz making an issue of it.
Trump was there as a plant to make sure his BFF Hillary won, but decided he rather liked the idea of being President and went rogue.
It seems the mood has changed on here, a few days back the tories were scathing about May's campaign and the labour lot were getting excited. Now we're back to discussing how big her majority will be.
Peculiar election, when its over plenty will be scratching their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about. Libs, Ukip, SNP et al will share 10%, Cons 52% Lab 38%.
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
Nick Clegg on fire on the Today programme. He really does not like Mrs May......
He's not alone in that.
Nick Clegg.. yesterdays man. Noone cares what he thinks,
For the first time in a long time I found myself not only agreeing with what Nick Clegg said, but actually believing that he himself believed it.
It is extraordinary that a PM who has been wholly responsible for the conduct of anti-terror policies over the past 7 years should 2 days before a GE be campaigning on a "time for a change" banner. Introducing red herrings to deflect from her own manifest failings. We now know the authorities didn't even have the resources to keep prioritising surveillance of someone who anyone that watched that Channel 4 documentary could see represented a manifest threat. We now know that the operation of international watch lists is useless when our pared back border security is so poor that a self confessed terrorist is allowed in regardless of being on those lists. Instead we see (as Clegg rightly points out) a scoundrel of a PM now posturing for electoral advantage on a platform that it's all down to human rights when adopting that bogus line would actually make the prospect of international cooperation much harder to achieve.
May's lack of achievements at the Home Office such as failing to cut immigration but succeeding in cutting police numbers does not bode well for Britain's Brexit negotiations.
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
All Corbyn can say is that he will put more police on the streets and has nothing else to offer
It seems the mood has changed on here, a few days back the tories were scathing about May's campaign and the labour lot were getting excited. Now we're back to discussing how big her majority will be.
Peculiar election, when its over plenty will be scratching their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about. Libs, Ukip, SNP et al will share 10%, Cons 52% Lab 38%.
47% possibly on a stunning night. No way 52%.
38% looks very high for Labour as well. So much of their support in polls giving that figure is from people who don't vote.
If I had to guess, I would guess 45-32. But I could be very wrong and both shares could be lower. I would be quite surprised if either party was higher than those figures. But I think until Thursday 10pm we're all frankly guessing.
Curious campaign. Didn't expect Corbyn to come out as the stronger in the two candidates. Didn't expect the LD to sink so completely. Didn't expect the Tories to throw away the economy.
Mr. Midwinter, there's a line I read recently (just done proofreading) in which a POV character thinks that the best way to persuade a man you're wise is to agree with him as often as possible.
The Times backs the Conservatives but warns Theresa May she "needs to broaden her circle of advisers, find the inner steel that has been missing during the campaign and be the bloody difficult woman she says she can be".
Curious campaign. Didn't expect Corbyn to come out as the stronger in the two candidates. Didn't expect the LD to sink so completely. Didn't expect the Tories to throw away the economy.
It is incredible how little the economy has featured in this campaign.
I caught a bit of the Newsbeat QT last night - it seemed to me that the kids were able to ask better questions about the longer term than the journos.
It seems the mood has changed on here, a few days back the tories were scathing about May's campaign and the labour lot were getting excited. Now we're back to discussing how big her majority will be.
Peculiar election, when its over plenty will be scratching their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about. Libs, Ukip, SNP et al will share 10%, Cons 52% Lab 38%.
47% possibly on a stunning night. No way 52%.
38% looks very high for Labour as well. So much of their support in polls giving that figure is from people who don't vote.
If I had to guess, I would guess 45-32. But I could be very wrong and both shares could be lower. I would be quite surprised if either party was higher than those figures. But I think until Thursday 10pm we're all frankly guessing.
Have a good day.
And you.
I can't see any protest votes, the libs, greens and ukip have vanished which is why I predict 10% shared out. Having long ago decided to abstain I've been able to look at it through non partisan eyes which is refreshing.
It seems the mood has changed on here, a few days back the tories were scathing about May's campaign and the labour lot were getting excited. Now we're back to discussing how big her majority will be.
Peculiar election, when its over plenty will be scratching their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about. Libs, Ukip, SNP et al will share 10%, Cons 52% Lab 38%.
47% possibly on a stunning night. No way 52%.
38% looks very high for Labour as well. So much of their support in polls giving that figure is from people who don't vote.
If I had to guess, I would guess 45-32. But I could be very wrong and both shares could be lower. I would be quite surprised if either party was higher than those figures. But I think until Thursday 10pm we're all frankly guessing.
Sky saying derogation from the human rights laws that get in the way of the fight against terrorism has been used in the past in the 1970's on Irish terrorism and we have derogated from it recently in vexacious claims on the Iraq battlefield .
This is going to be the story today and labour are in the wrong place especially when taken into context the onslaught against Corbyn in today' s press
It seems the mood has changed on here, a few days back the tories were scathing about May's campaign and the labour lot were getting excited. Now we're back to discussing how big her majority will be.
Peculiar election, when its over plenty will be scratching their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about. Libs, Ukip, SNP et al will share 10%, Cons 52% Lab 38%.
47% possibly on a stunning night. No way 52%.
38% looks very high for Labour as well. So much of their support in polls giving that figure is from people who don't vote.
If I had to guess, I would guess 45-32. But I could be very wrong and both shares could be lower. I would be quite surprised if either party was higher than those figures. But I think until Thursday 10pm we're all frankly guessing.
Have a good day.
From what I've seen the minor parties are going to get terribly low numbers, when it's a straight fight the protest vote has melted away and people are voting con or lab.
It seems the mood has changed on here, a few days back the tories were scathing about May's campaign and the labour lot were getting excited. Now we're back to discussing how big her majority will be.
Peculiar election, when its over plenty will be scratching their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about. Libs, Ukip, SNP et al will share 10%, Cons 52% Lab 38%.
47% possibly on a stunning night. No way 52%.
38% looks very high for Labour as well. So much of their support in polls giving that figure is from people who don't vote.
If I had to guess, I would guess 45-32. But I could be very wrong and both shares could be lower. I would be quite surprised if either party was higher than those figures. But I think until Thursday 10pm we're all frankly guessing.
Curious campaign. Didn't expect Corbyn to come out as the stronger in the two candidates. Didn't expect the LD to sink so completely. Didn't expect the Tories to throw away the economy.
I agree with you on it all.....but I still expect a Tory majority of circa 80-100......and then everything will be forgotten as May basks in her landslide and the Labour Party is utterly and hopelessly riven with division....
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
Yep - it will do May plenty of good electorally. But it does show yet again what a flip-flopper she is when she is desperate for a positive headline in the Daily Mail. She is a profoundly weak PM.
Rubbish, in 1995 Trump was a Democrat for starters, Bill Clinton was friendly with Adams even as President, Obama said his closest ally was Merkel not May, Bush Snr was closer to Kohl than Thatcher etc, May was the first foreign leader invited to the White House by Trump for a reason
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
Accordingly I'm sure you'll agree that the PM is soft on terrorism too because the Conservative manifesto explicitly retain Human Rights Acts despite all the terror attacks over the past few decades but before the Manchester and London attacks during the general election campaign and two days before polling day.
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
A lot of undecideds out there. They are going to break HEAVILY for May.
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
Yep - it will do May plenty of good electorally. But it does show yet again what a flip-flopper she is when she is desperate for a positive headline in the Daily Mail. She is a profoundly weak PM.
naaaaaaaaaaaaaah. its all about firming up the waverers
Rubbish, in 1995 Trump was a Democrat for starters, Bill Clinton was friendly with Adams even as President, Obama said his closest ally was Merkel not May, Bush And was closer to Kohl than Thatcher etc, May was the first foreign leade invited to the White House by Trump for a reason
She was desperate enough to show up and play nice.
There's a lesson for the next Labour leader though, from day 1 he should be putting vast energies into reaching to the 65+ demographics. Policy should be focused grouped at Saga, not at University. It's the vital election winning demographic they are failing with.
Or she.
I agree, and you can extend the lesson.
If you want to put roughly 1/4 of your entire current spending pledges into one headline policy, it's better to make the main beneficiaries those who are old enough to vote. So focus on writing off a large amount of tuition fee debt of those in their late 20s and 30s as well as reducing the additional 9% income tax rate that all basic rate taxpaying graduates this millenia effectively pay, rather than putting all your eggs into abolishing tuition fees for a new generation of future voters aged 18 or less.
What about a compromise between the two? Make student loan repayments tax deductible?
Imagine the fun Labour would have if the Tories proposed a policy to subsidise higher rate tax payers?
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
Yep - it will do May plenty of good electorally. But it does show yet again what a flip-flopper she is when she is desperate for a positive headline in the Daily Mail. She is a profoundly weak PM.
Weakest Pm in my lifetime. Brown and Major both better.
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
Accordingly I'm sure you'll agree that the PM is soft on terrorism too because the Conservative manifesto explicitly retain Human Rights Acts despite all the terror attacks over the past few decades but before the Manchester and London attacks during the general election campaign and two days before polling day.
She has just ramped up the debate and put labour on the wrong foot. I suppose that is politics
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
A lot of undecideds out there. They are going to break HEAVILY for May.
Curious campaign. Didn't expect Corbyn to come out as the stronger in the two candidates. Didn't expect the LD to sink so completely. Didn't expect the Tories to throw away the economy.
I agree with you on it all.....but I still expect a Tory majority of circa 80-100......and then everything will be forgotten as May basks in her landslide and the Labour Party is utterly and hopelessly riven with division....
There is no need for division, There are two very important lessons for labour form this GE: 1. In Brexit Britain you can pitch to voters form the left and not live in fear of the right wing press. These days there really are other ways to get your case in front of voters - especially during an election period. 2. You cannot do any of the above and hope to win, if the person making the pitch has security and defence baggage stretching back years.
If both lessons are learned, Labour has no need to fall apart.
The very good news for Labour is that England and Wales have basically returned to the two party system. And one of those two parties is Labour. The Toriesd majority will mean there will be no talk of an election for a few years now, while Brexit - and the UK's poor negotiating position - will dominate the airwaves. That gives Labour time. There is no need for Corbyn to go immediately, he can be slowly transitioned out. With another leader, Labour will be in contention for 2022. And that is not something I would have written six weeks ago.
The Times backs the Conservatives but warns Theresa May she "needs to broaden her circle of advisers, find the inner steel that has been missing during the campaign and be the bloody difficult woman she says she can be".
Has YouGov abandoned its latest GE Seats model ..... I couldn't find any update numbers last night, unless I simply missed them?
I find it interesting that there wasn't a huge number of polls yesterday..
Could the polling companies be 'considering' their final polls, and want a gap between the ones already out there, and what they'll finally be judged on?
Curious campaign. Didn't expect Corbyn to come out as the stronger in the two candidates. Didn't expect the LD to sink so completely. Didn't expect the Tories to throw away the economy.
I agree with you on it all.....but I still expect a Tory majority of circa 80-100......and then everything will be forgotten as May basks in her landslide and the Labour Party is utterly and hopelessly riven with division....
There is no need for division, There are two very important lessons for labour form this GE: 1. In Brexit Britain you can pitch to voters form the left and not live in fear of the right wing press. These days there really are other ways to get your case in front of voters - especially during an election period. 2. You cannot do any of the above and hope to win, if the person making the pitch has security and defence baggage stretching back years.
If both lessons are learned, Labour has no need to fall apart.
The very good news for Labour is that England and Wales have basically returned to the two party system. And one of those two parties is Labour. The Toriesd majority will mean there will be no talk of an election for a few years now, while Brexit - and the UK's poor negotiating position - will dominate the airwaves. That gives Labour time. There is no need for Corbyn to go immediately, he can be slowly transitioned out. With another leader, Labour will be in contention for 2022. And that is not something I would have written six weeks ago.
TRUE. because you have been telling us the Tories will be out on their arses in 2022. Now its Labour will be in contention..
Curious campaign. Didn't expect Corbyn to come out as the stronger in the two candidates. Didn't expect the LD to sink so completely. Didn't expect the Tories to throw away the economy.
I agree with you on it all.....but I still expect a Tory majority of circa 80-100......and then everything will be forgotten as May basks in her landslide and the Labour Party is utterly and hopelessly riven with division....
There is no need for division, There are two very important lessons for labour form this GE: 1. In Brexit Britain you can pitch to voters form the left and not live in fear of the right wing press. These days there really are other ways to get your case in front of voters - especially during an election period. 2. You cannot do any of the above and hope to win, if the person making the pitch has security and defence baggage stretching back years.
If both lessons are learned, Labour has no need to fall apart.
The very good news for Labour is that England and Wales have basically returned to the two party system. And one of those two parties is Labour. The Toriesd majority will mean there will be no talk of an election for a few years now, while Brexit - and the UK's poor negotiating position - will dominate the airwaves. That gives Labour time. There is no need for Corbyn to go immediately, he can be slowly transitioned out. With another leader, Labour will be in contention for 2022. And that is not something I would have written six weeks ago.
But as labour will learn lessons, so will the tories. All dependent on 'events' and Brexit utimately, but I don't think they'll be so rubbish anytime again.
No thread summarising the papers recommendations??
I think this is a realistic overview therefore:
Guardian - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Mirror - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Independent - just vote Times - vote Tory as they are least crap Sun - vote Tory as the rest are really crap and dangerous Mail - vote Tory as the rest are really dangerous and really crap Telegraph - You kidding, we always vote Tory FT - vote Tory as they are crap but not as crap as the Marxists Express - vote Tory as Princess Diana would
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
A lot of undecideds out there. They are going to break HEAVILY for May.
We're back to the old 'blue labour' theory there, which labour kinda flirted with, but couldn't square it with the metropolitian lefties they are now.
Economically left leaning without traitors leading the party. What's complicated about it?
But I suspect it will be easier for the Tories to pick Labour policies than it will be for the Labour Party to boot out Corbyn's mob and the middle-class lefties.
If either Corbyn goes and Labour gets a decent (or half-decent) leader, or the PLP splits to form a sane left party, the Conservatives could get hammered at the next election.
Curious campaign. Didn't expect Corbyn to come out as the stronger in the two candidates. Didn't expect the LD to sink so completely. Didn't expect the Tories to throw away the economy.
I agree with you on it all.....but I still expect a Tory majority of circa 80-100......and then everything will be forgotten as May basks in her landslide and the Labour Party is utterly and hopelessly riven with division....
There is no need for division, There are two very important lessons for labour form this GE: 1. In Brexit Britain you can pitch to voters form the left and not live in fear of the right wing press. These days there really are other ways to get your case in front of voters - especially during an election period. 2. You cannot do any of the above and hope to win, if the person making the pitch has security and defence baggage stretching back years.
If both lessons are learned, Labour has no need to fall apart.
The very good news for Labour is that England and Wales have basically returned to the two party system. And one of those two parties is Labour. The Toriesd majority will mean there will be no talk of an election for a few years now, while Brexit - and the UK's poor negotiating position - will dominate the airwaves. That gives Labour time. There is no need for Corbyn to go immediately, he can be slowly transitioned out. With another leader, Labour will be in contention for 2022. And that is not something I would have written six weeks ago.
Focussing on Corbyn's shortcomings will miss the important point (assuming a Tory majority north of 80). Whoever fronts the party, Labour STILL won't be trusted to deliver on the economy.
And if Corbyn hangs around like a bad smell, that isn't changing.
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
Accordingly I'm sure you'll agree that the PM is soft on terrorism too because the Conservative manifesto explicitly retain Human Rights Acts despite all the terror attacks over the past few decades but before the Manchester and London attacks during the general election campaign and two days before polling day.
She has just ramped up the debate and put labour on the wrong foot. I suppose that is politics
Indeed. Likely to be effective but shabby and disreputable from the Prime Minister.
Rubbish, in 1995 Trump was a Democrat for starters, Bill Clinton was friendly with Adams even as President, Obama said his closest ally was Merkel not May, Bush Snr was closer to Kohl than Thatcher etc, May was the first foreign leader invited to the White House by Trump for a reason
Whether Trump was a Democrat or not is irrelevant. He gave money to the Provos months before they started bombing in the UK again.
Yes, Trump invited May to the White House because he knew that she would prostrate herself and the UK in front of him. Despite all his policies and pronouncements being hostile to UK interests, as defined by May.
No thread summarising the papers recommendations??
I think this is a realistic overview therefore:
Guardian - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Mirror - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Independent - just vote Times - vote Tory as they are least crap Sun - vote Tory as the rest are really crap and dangerous Mail - vote Tory as the rest are really dangerous and really crap Telegraph - You kidding, we always vote Tory FT - vote Tory as they are crap but not as crap as the Marxists Express - vote Tory as Princess Diana would
The Times backs the Conservatives but warns Theresa May she "needs to broaden her circle of advisers, find the inner steel that has been missing during the campaign and be the bloody difficult woman she says she can be".
Well that lot was obvious from about a month ago. A thoroughly illiberal prime minister, but better her than the terrorist loving Jezbollah.
She'll have to do.
Yep. She'll be okay for now with an increased majority, but will struggle to get anything that looks like internment or ID cards passed. The men in grey suits will tap her on the shoulder once Brexit is done and dusted.
No thread summarising the papers recommendations??
I think this is a realistic overview therefore:
Guardian - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Mirror - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Independent - just vote Times - vote Tory as they are least crap Sun - vote Tory as the rest are really crap and dangerous Mail - vote Tory as the rest are really dangerous and really crap Telegraph - You kidding, we always vote Tory FT - vote Tory as they are crap but not as crap as the Marxists Express - vote Tory as Princess Diana would
May's attack on human rights will benefit her politically.
Like Jezza, she's going for a 'populist' policy rather than a boring one (in Guardian-speak, that's a popular policy they don't like). It will annoy the people who probably won't vote for her anyway, and perhaps stimulate a few others to go out and vote for her.
No thread summarising the papers recommendations??
I think this is a realistic overview therefore:
Guardian - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Mirror - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Independent - just vote Times - vote Tory as they are least crap Sun - vote Tory as the rest are really crap and dangerous Mail - vote Tory as the rest are really dangerous and really crap Telegraph - You kidding, we always vote Tory FT - vote Tory as they are crap but not as crap as the Marxists Express - vote Tory as Princess Diana would
Mail - vote Tory as the rest are really dangerous and really crap and if you're still not convinced... Labour plan to CRASH house prices
May's attack on human rights will benefit her politically.
Like Jezza, she's going for a 'populist' policy rather than a boring one (in Guardian-speak, that's a popular policy they don't like). It will annoy the people who probably won't vote for her anyway, and perhaps stimulate a few others to go out and vote for her.
No thread summarising the papers recommendations??
I think this is a realistic overview therefore:
Guardian - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Mirror - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Independent - just vote Times - vote Tory as they are least crap Sun - vote Tory as the rest are really crap and dangerous Mail - vote Tory as the rest are really dangerous and really crap Telegraph - You kidding, we always vote Tory FT - vote Tory as they are crap but not as crap as the Marxists Express - vote Tory as Princess Diana would
Guardian endorsed Labour.
I stand corrected - thank you - how symbolic that the Guardian should do so but the Mirror not....
Looking ahead. Labour needs to think who it will be facing next time. Whatever happens tomorrow, it won't be May.
Most likely scenario is BoJo leading an unpopular Tory government during /post economic trouble. A mirror if the 2010 brown campaign.
Why do confident? I still think May will win an excellent majority and Tories will fall in line.
No doubt loyalty will be a thing short term. But May is rubbish. She lacks the confidence and ability to see us through the next five years. It's going to be brutal.
May's attack on human rights will benefit her politically.
Like Jezza, she's going for a 'populist' policy rather than a boring one (in Guardian-speak, that's a popular policy they don't like). It will annoy the people who probably won't vote for her anyway, and perhaps stimulate a few others to go out and vote for her.
Perhaps she does want to win after all.
Unlike Cameron in 2010 but like Cameron in 2015 May has realised that it is Sun and Mail readers in marginal seats in the North and Midlands and Eurosceptic voters in the South West who will win this election for her, not Guardian and Independent readers in Islington and Camden
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
Accordingly I'm sure you'll agree that the PM is soft on terrorism too because the Conservative manifesto explicitly retain Human Rights Acts despite all the terror attacks over the past few decades but before the Manchester and London attacks during the general election campaign and two days before polling day.
She has just ramped up the debate and put labour on the wrong foot. I suppose that is politics
Indeed. Likely to be effective but shabby and disreputable from the Prime Minister.
Pfff. Its politics. its what politicians do. No need to get all huffy about it..
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
A lot of undecideds out there. They are going to break HEAVILY for May.
They could break LD...
Most heavily Presidential British election I have lived through - even more than the selling of President Blair.
Tories essentially said "It's all about May. We don't need policies. (But here's a few scary ones anyway. We're THAT confident...)"
Labour mostly gazed at their shoes as Corbyn made it about him. And Da Yoof loved it! Yay for President Corbyn! (Who were the IRA?)
Last night i learnt that in the House of Commons MPs will only ever shake hands with other MPs on the first time that they meet them.After that the convention is not ti do soo. I think this basic idea of greeting one another can lead to a lack of civility the like of which we continue to witness in todays politics.
Most likely scenario is BoJo leading an unpopular Tory government during /post economic trouble. A mirror if the 2010 brown campaign.
I will be very surprised if Boris becomes leader, after this election campaign I think the party would want a steady hand on the tiller, and that sure as hell isn't Boris.
Call your grandfolks - and get an earful from them about what the 1970s were really like the last time we let the lunatics run the asylum?
I'm not certain we should call Ted Heath a lunatic, but this just seems to be replay of what Obama did first time round.
There's no real downside to this for Labour, it's unlikely to cost them any votes and any gain is better than nothing.
In the big picture, it's too little, too late. You can't do this 48 hours prior to polling and expect it to work. There's a lesson for the next Labour leader though, from day 1 he should be putting vast energies into reaching to the 65+ demographics. Policy should be focused grouped at Saga, not at University. It's the vital election winning demographic they are failing with.
They did pledge to keep the triple lock and wfa so they have gone after the elderly vote.
There's a lesson for the next Labour leader though, from day 1 he should be putting vast energies into reaching to the 65+ demographics. Policy should be focused grouped at Saga, not at University. It's the vital election winning demographic they are failing with.
Or she.
I agree, and you can extend the lesson.
If you want to put roughly 1/4 of your entire current spending pledges into one headline policy, it's better to make the main beneficiaries those who are old enough to vote. So focus on writing off a large amount of tuition fee debt of those in their late 20s and 30s as well as reducing the additional 9% income tax rate that all basic rate taxpaying graduates this millenia effectively pay, rather than putting all your eggs into abolishing tuition fees for a new generation of future voters aged 18 or less.
What about a compromise between the two? Make student loan repayments tax deductible?
That's a good and very simple idea.
Very fair, too, I would think.
more tax relief for the higher earners might be contentious?
Call your grandfolks - and get an earful from them about what the 1970s were really like the last time we let the lunatics run the asylum?
I'm not certain we should call Ted Heath a lunatic, but this just seems to be replay of what Obama did first time round.
There's no real downside to this for Labour, it's unlikely to cost them any votes and any gain is better than nothing.
In the big picture, it's too little, too late. You can't do this 48 hours prior to polling and expect it to work. There's a lesson for the next Labour leader though, from day 1 he should be putting vast energies into reaching to the 65+ demographics. Policy should be focused grouped at Saga, not at University. It's the vital election winning demographic they are failing with.
Things did go wrong 78/9 for the Labour Government but TBH they were exacerbated by what had happened 70-74 under Heath. Wilson steadied the ship, especially after Oct 74. His resignation seemed, in retrospect, to upset things. What did throw everything of course were the oil crises and problems in the Middle East.
That’s my memory of those times, and I was 40 during the decade.
PS. Plus of course, Northern Ireland. Which could be put down to 40+ years of ignoring Civil Rights by the Unionists.
Do you see Corbyn and Abbott as of the same calibre as Callaghan & Rees? Or McDonald, Healey?
Why do you think Abbott will be the Home Secretary or even be in the cabinet ?
Call your grandfolks - and get an earful from them about what the 1970s were really like the last time we let the lunatics run the asylum?
I'm not certain we should call Ted Heath a lunatic, but this just seems to be replay of what Obama did first time round.
There's no real downside to this for Labour, it's unlikely to cost them any votes and any gain is better than nothing.
In the big picture, it's too little, too late. You can't do this 48 hours prior to polling and expect it to work. There's a lesson for the next Labour leader though, from day 1 he should be putting vast energies into reaching to the 65+ demographics. Policy should be focused grouped at Saga, not at University. It's the vital election winning demographic they are failing with.
They did pledge to keep the triple lock and wfa so they have gone after the elderly vote.
Not enough, needs a hearts and minds approach over a period of years. You can't just fling a bit of policy at them. Needs to pass the "people like us" sniff test. That's where they are failing
Last night i learnt that in the House of Commons MPs will only ever shake hands with other MPs on the first time that they meet them.After that the convention is not ti do soo. I think this basic idea of greeting one another can lead to a lack of civility the like of which we continue to witness in todays politics.
Interesting, didn't know that. I always find it amusing that the MPs refer to each other as 'Honourable' (or 'Right Honourable' for Privy Council members) Members for their constituencies, rather than by name - yet they stand directly opposing each other, behind lines drawn a symbolic two swords' lengths apart!
Her budget lasted two weeks. Her manifesto didn't survive the campaign That's a first.
She twists and turns with the wind. Not a leader. Not up to it. And what's worst is that the going has been oh so easy. She folds despite being barely challenged.
Looking ahead. Labour needs to think who it will be facing next time. Whatever happens tomorrow, it won't be May.
Most likely scenario is BoJo leading an unpopular Tory government during /post economic trouble. A mirror if the 2010 brown campaign.
I think it may well be a repeat of May v Corbyn in 2022, though if not Hammond v Corbyn perhaps if he survives the reshuffle and May goes. Hammond as Major, May as Thatcher and Corbyn as Kinnock? In 1987 Thatcher won by 12% and a majority of 102, in 1992 Major won by 7% and a majority of 21
No thread summarising the papers recommendations??
I think this is a realistic overview therefore:
Guardian - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Mirror - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour) Independent - just vote Times - vote Tory as they are least crap Sun - vote Tory as the rest are really crap and dangerous Mail - vote Tory as the rest are really dangerous and really crap Telegraph - You kidding, we always vote Tory FT - vote Tory as they are crap but not as crap as the Marxists Express - vote Tory as Princess Diana would
The only surprise I guess is that the Indy failed to take a virulent anti-Tory stance as one would have expected. Presumably the Sundays all followed their respective Daily sister newspapers?
Edinburgh South won't go Tory. Maybe SNP but more likely to stay Labour.
Marriott has it solidly Labour:
Lab: 44 SNP: 27 Con: 22 Lib: 6
Edinburgh South is now anti-SNP. At the 2015 election, the SNP candidate made disparaging remarks on elderly constituents, which were heavily reported in the Edinburgh Evening News. Also, it came to light later, that Mr Murrell's candidate reference checks were not adequately completed and that Ian Murray being elected saved the SNP from another McGarry/Thomson embarrassment.
At the council elections, the leader of the council SNP was defeated in the constituency and Labour won it.
They've just announced that Diane Abbott has been taken ill and is taking time off untill after the General Election.
So Labour down to ten men as we move into extra time.
And that is clearly a filthy lie from Labour. She is toxic. They've realised she is toxic and can't afford to have her on telly for even a moment. She didn't have a migraine when she failed to vote (was filmed out drinking), she didn't suddenly get ill between the moment she was filmed absloutely fine in a tube station and her media appointment due only 10 minutes later yesterday. She is not ill now. She is getting pulled. Hidden away. Because she is a disgusting, repellant blob of ectoplasm. Voters are waking up to the risk of her running our national security machine and vomiting.
Her budget lasted two weeks. Her manifesto didn't survive the campaign That's a first.
She twists and turns with the wind. Not a leader. Not up to it. And what's worst is that the going has been oh so easy. She folds despite being barely challenged.
Comments
More seriously didn't Trump used to be considered a sort of non-card carrying Democrat and quite close to the Clintons at that? Before he went crazy (or not - delete according to Party ID). Could be wrong but I seem to remember Cruz making an issue of it.
It is extraordinary that a PM who has been wholly responsible for the conduct of anti-terror policies over the past 7 years should 2 days before a GE be campaigning on a "time for a change" banner. Introducing red herrings to deflect from her own manifest failings. We now know the authorities didn't even have the resources to keep prioritising surveillance of someone who anyone that watched that Channel 4 documentary could see represented a manifest threat. We now know that the operation of international watch lists is useless when our pared back border security is so poor that a self confessed terrorist is allowed in regardless of being on those lists. Instead we see (as Clegg rightly points out) a scoundrel of a PM now posturing for electoral advantage on a platform that it's all down to human rights when adopting that bogus line would actually make the prospect of international cooperation much harder to achieve.
Although Corbyn's non-endorsement is interesting it's not conclusive. Who could forget the time he twice evaded a question before shouting 'Didn't you hear what I said? Of course I will stay as leader.' He genuinely appears not to get that politician speak is not always ummm, clear. He knows what he means after 34 years in Parliament, why don't we?
Brexit diminishes our influence in the world yet again. Sad!
cant really see Ireland deploying troops in Estonia or Syria
as ever the number of serious countries is fairly limited, but if it means fewer brits coming back in body bags stuff the influence
Peculiar election, when its over plenty will be scratching their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about. Libs, Ukip, SNP et al will share 10%, Cons 52% Lab 38%.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
I suspect they're right this time, but yes, the hypocrisy is breathtaking.
Happy #MegaPollingWednesday
I see Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph have all unleashed the full barrels on Corbyn and company.
"Vote to Save Britain" is the Mail strapline.
38% looks very high for Labour as well. So much of their support in polls giving that figure is from people who don't vote.
If I had to guess, I would guess 45-32. But I could be very wrong and both shares could be lower. I would be quite surprised if either party was higher than those figures. But I think until Thursday 10pm we're all frankly guessing.
Have a good day.
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-03-10/news/mn-41186_1_white-house
So maybe it's a tie for "most anti-British"?
(and how about John Redwood for chancellor! Only joking - sort of).
The Times backs the Conservatives but warns Theresa May she "needs to broaden her circle of advisers, find the inner steel that has been missing during the campaign and be the bloody difficult woman she says she can be".
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/britain-s-future-7h6gp0785?CMP=TNLEmail_118918_1932178
I caught a bit of the Newsbeat QT last night - it seemed to me that the kids were able to ask better questions about the longer term than the journos.
I can't see any protest votes, the libs, greens and ukip have vanished which is why I predict 10% shared out. Having long ago decided to abstain I've been able to look at it through non partisan eyes which is refreshing.
As you say we'll soon see.
http://tinyurl.com/y7z9wk9w
There is a common theme of life long Labour voters (and haters of Tories) planning to vote Tory for one simple reason... Corbyn)
This is going to be the story today and labour are in the wrong place especially when taken into context the onslaught against Corbyn in today' s press
Even 32 sounds high to me.
1. In Brexit Britain you can pitch to voters form the left and not live in fear of the right wing press. These days there really are other ways to get your case in front of voters - especially during an election period.
2. You cannot do any of the above and hope to win, if the person making the pitch has security and defence baggage stretching back years.
If both lessons are learned, Labour has no need to fall apart.
The very good news for Labour is that England and Wales have basically returned to the two party system. And one of those two parties is Labour. The Toriesd majority will mean there will be no talk of an election for a few years now, while Brexit - and the UK's poor negotiating position - will dominate the airwaves. That gives Labour time. There is no need for Corbyn to go immediately, he can be slowly transitioned out. With another leader, Labour will be in contention for 2022. And that is not something I would have written six weeks ago.
She'll have to do.
Could the polling companies be 'considering' their final polls, and want a gap between the ones already out there, and what they'll finally be judged on?
I think this is a realistic overview therefore:
Guardian - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour)
Mirror - vote anyone but Tory (not specifically Labour)
Independent - just vote
Times - vote Tory as they are least crap
Sun - vote Tory as the rest are really crap and dangerous
Mail - vote Tory as the rest are really dangerous and really crap
Telegraph - You kidding, we always vote Tory
FT - vote Tory as they are crap but not as crap as the Marxists
Express - vote Tory as Princess Diana would
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/213/566/e26.gif
But I suspect it will be easier for the Tories to pick Labour policies than it will be for the Labour Party to boot out Corbyn's mob and the middle-class lefties.
If either Corbyn goes and Labour gets a decent (or half-decent) leader, or the PLP splits to form a sane left party, the Conservatives could get hammered at the next election.
Assuming they win this one...
And if Corbyn hangs around like a bad smell, that isn't changing.
Yes, Trump invited May to the White House because he knew that she would prostrate herself and the UK in front of him. Despite all his policies and pronouncements being hostile to UK interests, as defined by May.
Most likely scenario is BoJo leading an unpopular Tory government during /post economic trouble. A mirror if the 2010 brown campaign.
I still think May will win an excellent majority and Tories will fall in line.
Like Jezza, she's going for a 'populist' policy rather than a boring one (in Guardian-speak, that's a popular policy they don't like). It will annoy the people who probably won't vote for her anyway, and perhaps stimulate a few others to go out and vote for her.
Perhaps she does want to win after all.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4578912/Labour-plan-crash-house-prices.html
Tories essentially said "It's all about May. We don't need policies. (But here's a few scary ones anyway. We're THAT confident...)"
Labour mostly gazed at their shoes as Corbyn made it about him. And Da Yoof loved it! Yay for President Corbyn! (Who were the IRA?)
So Labour down to ten men as we move into extra time.
She twists and turns with the wind. Not a leader. Not up to it. And what's worst is that the going has been oh so easy. She folds despite being barely challenged.
If it gets tough she'll melt.
Presumably the Sundays all followed their respective Daily sister newspapers?
At the council elections, the leader of the council SNP was defeated in the constituency and Labour won it.