Last night i learnt that in the House of Commons MPs will only ever shake hands with other MPs on the first time that they meet them.After that the convention is not ti do soo. I think this basic idea of greeting one another can lead to a lack of civility the like of which we continue to witness in todays politics.
Interesting. We have the same tradition in Parliament House in Edinburgh amongst advocates. You only shake their hands once. I wonder where this nonsense came from.
David, can you explain how and why Craig Whyte was found not guilty?
Is there something I'm missing about Scottish law?
Sky making a good case of derogating from human rights law over terrorism
Makes you wonder why the Tories did not mention it in their manifesto, doesn't it?
Is that a dead cat over there?
Because it'd get shredded in the detail "So Mrs May just what human rights are you planning to take away".
This way it only gets a day to be aired so the policy can't be dug into too deeply. Because the reality is it is complicated stuff. I note Starmer said it was a "distraction" rather than outright condemning May for it, which sounded like an equivocation to me. It is a fantastic last minute dead cat.
What's the point posting images like that on here?
Its a sign of Cyan's confidence in a Labour landslide, undoubtedly.....
Last night I sold my investment in the Tories not getting a majority, at a small four-figure profit. I sold it when I saw the cover pages of the Daily Mail and especially of the filthy rag called the Sun. The Sun expresses so well what the Tories wish to do to this country. I don't believe the country can compete successfully with the Tories, the Sun, and the traitors in MI5 at the present time.
@RobD, to answer your question: you may not have seen the Sun's photo of Millwall thug Roy Lerner who fought the jihadist murderers in London and sustained injuries doing so. He is reported to have said "F*** you, I'm Millwall" before taking them on. The photo shows him in his hospital bed holding a Millwall flag. (Click here). (For the avoidance of doubt, even someone of Mr Lerner's ilk can do a brave and right action at the right time, and if the account of his response is accurate then on Saturday that is certainly what he did. In any event, I wish him a speedy recovery. But that does not stop him from being a Millwall thug.) I would have posted that photo here, but retaining a sense of ethics - clearly absent among the scumbags who have been spooking, spying on and lying about Diane Abbott - I chose not to. Really on the left hand side as well as a picture of Diane Abbott and a red flag, the image should have the ISIS flag and perhaps a picture of IRA men in their uniforms too. For full effect it could also include some far more bloody images. If the Tories win this election, as they almost certainly now will, this will be how they have done it. They have not done it by intellectual argument. Mass politics is mostly about emotion. This is the worst day for our country for a long long time. It is probably the lowest I have ever known the right-wing press stoop.
Always good for a laugh, our Cyan.
I wonder how long before you blame the voters - that is generally the hallmark of the left.
Kinnock did that twice as I recall - in 1987 and again in 2015. He came on the TV and scolded the voters for being so selfish and nasty as not to vote for his party.
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
I don't know how much money the Lib Dems have had to spend on this election but I live in Bath and I have endless facebook ads for them. A variety of expensive looking ones too, with animated bar charts defeating each other and all sorts. Only one low budget ad from Labour with the candidate talking to a phone camera.
The Lib Dem candidate is actually our next door neighbour, I really like her and I don't have the heart to tell her I won't be voting for her.
The only thing you do is talk to them about the ira and hide your partisan interests that you don't give a damn about the country, your sole purpose in life is to represent the interests of the tory party.
There are times when its in the interests of the country to vote conservative like in 2010.
You refuse to put the national interest first; you support cuts to public services that can't take anymore, pay for nurses/police below inflation, more terrorism on our streets because may won't give the right resources and you knock on peoples doors to get tax cuts for rich people.
shame on you. this country is poorer because of your desperate loyalty to your party.
what the tory party did to the liberal democrats was bad for the democratic process in this country.
What did the Tories do? Invite them in to power. Require them to shovel some of the shit that goes with being in Government - most of which is 51-49 decisions. That the LibDems got found out as being unable to deliver on their "riding two horses going in different directions" offer to the voters was hardly the Tories' fault. That they got slaughtered was down to the voters. How is the will of the voters bad for the democratic process?
I suppose your next gripe will be the Tories offering a referendum has killed UKIP, and that is bad for the democratic process...
You really are thick as a whole wall of bricks....
I don't know how much money the Lib Dems have had to spend on this election but I live in Bath and I have endless facebook ads for them. A variety of expensive looking ones too, with animated bar charts defeating each other and all sorts. Only one low budget ad from Labour with the candidate talking to a phone camera.
The Lib Dem candidate is actually our next door neighbour, I really like her and I don't have the heart to tell her I won't be voting for her.
What's the point posting images like that on here?
Its a sign of Cyan's confidence in a Labour landslide, undoubtedly.....
Last night I sold my investment in the Tories not getting a majority, at a small four-figure profit. I sold it when I saw the cover pages of the Daily Mail and especially of the filthy rag called the Sun. The Sun expresses so well what the Tories wish to do to this country. I don't believe the country can compete successfully with the Tories, the Sun, and the traitors in MI5 at the present time.
@RobD, to answer your question: you may not have seen the Sun's photo of Millwall thug Roy Lerner who fought the jihadist murderers in London and sustained injuries doing so. He is reported to have said "F*** you, I'm Millwall" before taking them on. The photo shows him in his hospital bed holding a Millwall flag. (Click here). (For the avoidance of doubt, even someone of Mr Lerner's ilk can do a brave and right action at the right time, and if the account of his response is accurate then on Saturday that is certainly what he did. In any event, I wish him a speedy recovery. But that does not stop him from being a Millwall thug.) I would have posted that photo here, but retaining a sense of ethics - clearly absent among the scumbags who have been spooking, spying on and lying about Diane Abbott - I chose not to. Really on the left hand side as well as a picture of Diane Abbott and a red flag, the image should have the ISIS flag and perhaps a picture of IRA men in their uniforms too. For full effect it could also include some far more bloody images. If the Tories win this election, as they almost certainly now will, this will be how they have done it. They have not done it by intellectual argument. Mass politics is mostly about emotion. This is the worst day for our country for a long long time. It is probably the lowest I have ever known the right-wing press stoop.
Always good for a laugh, our Cyan.
I wonder how long before you blame the voters - that is generally the hallmark of the left.
Kinnock did that twice as I recall - in 1987 and again in 2015. He came on the TV and scolded the voters for being so selfish and nasty as not to vote for his party.
"F*** you, I'm all right Jack" has been the mentality that the Tories have sought to instil, reinforce and benefit from since the 1950s. It has appeared in different forms: "You've never had it so good", council tax sales, "people's capitalism", "there's no such thing as society". It is both selfish and nasty.
What is it about Edinburgh West and police investigations?
'LibDem general election boss reported to fiscal over Holyrood spending
POLICE have reported the chair of the Scottish Liberal Democrats' general election campaign to the Crown Office over alleged criminality relating to the 2016 Holyrood election.'
The Tories have fought an OK campaign - better than average strategically but worse than average execution.
May has rightly and ruthlessly focused on the key swing gains this time round: Leave voting areas in the Midlands and North, where the Lab vote has been softening in recent years. Her rhetoric supports this, the Manifesto was aimed at this demographic more than traditional Tories ones (less to the right on economic issues, more to the right on other issues) and the Tories' campaign efforts have been focused here.
Well, she has changed the rules of the game. She has ignored the commentariat's haughty advice (well represented in PB headers) and pressed on - as a result the Tories will smash through the 40% barrier for the first time since 1992. They will get a very healthy majority, definitely over 50 and pushing 100.
And May will have her mandate, having made the right call to have this election now, to give her the extra couple of years for the Brexit process. This decision will also be proved a strategically wise move, both for .
I agree entirely.
This is proper retail politics based on a great strategy: taking votes off the opposition by appealing to their voters whilst doing the right thing for the country.
The media hate it. The Cameroons hate it (because it shows up their piddling LD strategy).
Tory activists love it.
You need the right strategy at the right time. Don't forget tories only won a majority in 2015 by GAINING 24 seats mainly off the LibDems.
I have to agree with TIM80. We could end up with a majority of 100 on Friday and the BBC has been telling people Corbyn is getting closer. I was looking at the voting data maps on the electoral calculus website for Walsall where I used to live. I was really struck by the comparison of the 2015 voting and Eu referendum. It was almost diametrically opposed with Tories backing remain. So if TM is able to hold the 2015 Tories and attract leave voters in quite limited numbers she will be able to win both those seats. And if that happens she will get a big majority even if she loses / fails to gain some metropolitan seats.
I have I just seen a lot of people on my social that I never think they would vote Tory, not that politically engaged and would be attracted to corbyn are now sharing / commenting on labours garden tax.
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
Everything will depend on whether Corbyn stands down, or not. – While there is a ‘true socialist’ leading the party, the new membership will have their figure head to rally around and motivate them. If Corbyn goes however, there’ll be an epic melt down that will reshape the party in ways unknown.
I don't think this makes a lot of difference but there's some stormy weather crossing parts of the country tomorrow. nowhere's getting it the whole day but looked like a band running from south wales through the lakes and into the borders and central belt of Scotland during the afternoon into evening.
Rubbish, in 1995 Trump was a Democrat for starters, Bill Clinton was friendly with Adams even as President, Obama said his closest ally was Merkel not May, Bush Snr was closer to Kohl than Thatcher etc, May was the first foreign leader invited to the White House by Trump for a reason
Whether Trump was a Democrat or not is irrelevant. He gave money to the Provos months before they started bombing in the UK again.
Yes, Trump invited May to the White House because he knew that she would prostrate herself and the UK in front of him. Despite all his policies and pronouncements being hostile to UK interests, as defined by May.
Trump backed Brexit unlike Hillary when few other leading world politicians would apart from former PM of Australia John Howard and a few European far right figures, Hillary would firmly have put the EU before the UK, Trump clearly prefers May to Macron and Merkel, Hillary would have preferred Merkel and Macron to May. In 1995 Trump backed the Clintons who also were friendly with Gerry Adams,, he had different views back then
Of course Trump prefers May to Macron and Merkel - she will never cause him any problems. She will prostrate herself and her country at his feet. What is not to like? But the fact is that Trump's major strategic objectives all run contrary to UK interests in a way that we have not seen from a US president in decades; he actively supported the provisional IRA in the 1990s; and his first reaction to a terrorist atrocity in our capital city was to seek to score cheap political points from it. He is profoundly anti-British.
Nope the Clintons were in the White House in the 1990s and friendly with Adams and McGuinness, Trump is in the White House now and friendly with Brexiteers. Like it or not we are leaving the EU and Trump supported the UK voters in that even before he became President, a big gamble, Merkel only last week effectively dumped the UK and US as 'dependable partners' to the EU, post Brexit Britain is not a reliable ally for the EU anymore, not an enemy as such but not an ally either, while the EU is now moving more towards China. The US, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, even India are now more reliable allies for post Brexit UK than the EU
I don't necessarily agree with TSE that May will have been diminished by the election. If she secures her own watertight mandate i.e a majority in excess of 40 or more and becomes more collegiate in approach having been chastened by and drawing lessons from the general election experience it might instead be the making of her and her government. Gove must return if only to boost her talent pool..
TSE is correct.
Mrs May has been significantly diminished by the campaign, that frankly has been an absolute shambles from start of finish. She has truly become the "Poundshop Prime Minister".
The Conservatives are saved on the electoral high street by the fact that Jezza's Labour party are bankrupt stock, UKIP are going into liquidation and the LibDems retain only a few market stalls through out the land.
The PM is a very lucky politician .... for now.
Morning Jack. Yes I absolutely agree with your comments about the shambolic campaign which doesn't reflect well on her. I think the point I was making was about going forward- can she learn her lessons from the last seven weeks and change her spots accordingly? If so n she could still eventually emerge stronger from the experience despite the short term hit to her credibility.
It's been 7 years since I last troubled pb.com, but dipped in here a couple of days ago to see what was afoot and the addiction has gripped me again with a vengeance... *refresh....refresh....refresh* etc!
A few thoughts -
- I see certain parallels on here with 2010 - the PB Tory herd (of which I count myself a long lapsed member) producing what seem to me to be wildly optimistic predictions which I just can't see. Hope I'm wrong. For what it's worth, I think Mrs May will secure a majority in the range of 35-45 seats, but I am a natural pessimist, recall waking up to find Leave and then Trump had triumphed, and must confess to an element of pant wetting. - I was struck last night by an interaction on the dreaded Twitter between Prof Matthew Goodwin of my alma mater UKC and another whose name escapes me to the effect that some (many?) of the seat forecasters seem driven far too much by the stats to the exclusion of any sense for the reality of the ground in a particular constituency. - Whimsically - Sci-fi aficionados among us might be familiar with Iain M Banks' Excession - in my view his finest work - in which a group of great intelligences - in Banks' parlance, 'Minds' gather together to cogitate and share their wisdom in a time of turmoil. They called themselves the 'Interesting Times Gang'. Lurking on this place over the last few days reminded me of this - with old (and, if you'll forgive me @JackW, sometimes VERY old) names I recall from the 2010 debates and equally wise and insightful new participants. Indeed it's been fun to see some dormant members return over the course of the week to add their voices to the group mind. Bit pretentious, perhaps, but I enjoyed the thought.
Anyway, enough of this pomposity. I hope to add a few insight of my own in the coming days.
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
Yep - it will do May plenty of good electorally. But it does show yet again what a flip-flopper she is when she is desperate for a positive headline in the Daily Mail. She is a profoundly weak PM.
What I find astounding is that people think that the removal of Human Rights will only affect terrorists....
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
Everything will depend on whether Corbyn stands down, or not. – While there is a ‘true socialist’ leading the party, the new membership will have their figure head to rally around and motivate them. If Corbyn goes however, there’ll be an epic melt down that will reshape the party in ways unknown.
Corbynism has now probably taken hold of Labour for up to a decade, May will win comfortably but Corbyn's increased voteshare will ensure he and his allies retain control of the party post defeat
Last night I sold my investment in the Tories not getting a majority, at a small four-figure profit. I sold it when I saw the cover pages of the Daily Mail and especially of the filthy rag called the Sun. The Sun expresses so well what the Tories wish to do to this country. I don't believe the country can compete successfully with the Tories, the Sun, and the traitors in MI5 at the present time.
@RobD, to answer your question: you may not have seen the Sun's photo of Millwall thug Roy Lerner who fought the jihadist murderers in London and sustained injuries doing so. He is reported to have said "F*** you, I'm Millwall" before taking them on. The photo shows him in his hospital bed holding a Millwall flag. (Click here). (For the avoidance of doubt, even someone of Mr Lerner's ilk can do a brave and right action at the right time, and if the account of his response is accurate then on Saturday that is certainly what he did. In any event, I wish him a speedy recovery. But that does not stop him from being a Millwall thug.) I would have posted that photo here, but retaining a sense of ethics - clearly absent among the scumbags who have been spooking, spying on and lying about Diane Abbott - I chose not to. Really on the left hand side as well as a picture of Diane Abbott and a red flag, the image should have the ISIS flag and perhaps a picture of IRA men in their uniforms too. For full effect it could also include some far more bloody images. If the Tories win this election, as they almost certainly now will, this will be how they have done it. They have not done it by intellectual argument. Mass politics is mostly about emotion. This is the worst day for our country for a long long time. It is probably the lowest I have ever known the right-wing press stoop.
Always good for a laugh, our Cyan.
I wonder how long before you blame the voters - that is generally the hallmark of the left.
Kinnock did that twice as I recall - in 1987 and again in 2015. He came on the TV and scolded the voters for being so selfish and nasty as not to vote for his party. "F*** you, I'm all right Jack" has been the mentality that the Tories have sought to instil, reinforce and benefit from since the 1950s. It has appeared in different forms: "You've never had it so good", council tax sales, "people's capitalism", "there's no such thing as society". It is both selfish and nasty.
I don't know how much money the Lib Dems have had to spend on this election but I live in Bath and I have endless facebook ads for them. A variety of expensive looking ones too, with animated bar charts defeating each other and all sorts. Only one low budget ad from Labour with the candidate talking to a phone camera.
The Lib Dem candidate is actually our next door neighbour, I really like her and I don't have the heart to tell her I won't be voting for her.
Are you going to give us a clue who you will be voting for? (Sorry for asking).
What's the point posting images like that on here?
Its a sign of Cyan's confidence in a Labour landslide, undoubtedly.....
Last night I sold my investment in the Tories not getting a majority, at a small four-figure profit. I sold it when I saw the cover pages of the Daily Mail and especially of the filthy rag called the Sun. The Sun expresses so well what the Tories wish to do to this country. I don't believe the country can compete successfully with the Tories, the Sun, and the traitors in MI5 at the present time.
@RobD, to answer your question: you may not have seen the Sun's photo of Millwall thug Roy Lerner who fought the jihadist murderers in London and sustained injuries doing so. He is reported to have said "F*** you, I'm Millwall" before taking them on. The photo shows him in his hospital bed holding a Millwall flag. (Click here). (For the avoidance of doubt, even someone of Mr Lerner's ilk can do a brave and right action at the right time, and if the account of his response is accurate then on Saturday that is certainly what he did. In any event, I wish him a speedy recovery. But that does not stop him from being a Millwall thug.) I would have posted that photo here, but retaining a sense of ethics - clearly absent among the scumbags who have been spooking, spying on and lying about Diane Abbott - I chose not to. Really on the left hand side as well as a picture of Diane Abbott and a red flag, the image should have the ISIS flag and perhaps a picture of IRA men in their uniforms too. For full effect it could also include some far more bloody images. If the Tories win this election, as they almost certainly now will, this will be how they have done it. They have not done it by intellectual argument. Mass politics is mostly about emotion. This is the worst day for our country for a long long time. It is probably the lowest I have ever known the right-wing press stoop.
Always good for a laugh, our Cyan.
I wonder how long before you blame the voters - that is generally the hallmark of the left.
I think it is called false consciousness. And it doesn't get more patronising than that.
Right - just bet on her at a mere 270-1 for next Tory leader.
You should have stuck your money on a sure fire tip/winner such as Diane Abbott as next Labour leader.
don't get out of bed for 100-1.... like your tip sadly at the moment. If genuine, wish her a speedy recovery and return to This Week before much longer. The tales to be told.
Oh, and for all those Ruthie fanciers, she is not popular in SCON. She was going to lose her constituency support in Glasgow before she decided to move to Edinburgh, and from gossip, she is seemingly not popular here, either, in the local party. Too much blatant ambition, and too little humility.
While I may agree with your general points about Ruthy, since she was a Glasgow list msp, what had her already minimal Glasgow constituency support to do with anything?
Well done on keeping the tattered SLab flag flying tho'!
The constituency I live in was solid Tory until 1997 Edinburgh Pentlands, now Edinburgh South, Malcolm Rifkind, ring any bells, nice chap, very clever. Have friends who are tory members, still, but as long as they buy the beer..... ;-)
Oh, and Ruthie really manged to annoy her Glasgow constituency parties, rumours of deselection, heard some "details" but cannot confirm, even if I could be bothered.
"F*** you, I'm all right Jack" has been the mentality that the Tories have sought to instil, reinforce and benefit from since the 1950s. It has appeared in different forms: "You've never had it so good", council tax sales, "people's capitalism", "there's no such thing as society". It is both selfish and nasty.
The Millwall bloke has both arms bandaged because he has been fending off a knife attack empty-handed. At risk of sounding like a tabloid, first and foremost what he is is a hero. To you he is a thick Leave-voting prole.
The most depressing thing about brexit was the revelation that the UK is as full of snobs as it ever has been. The snobbery is just distributed a bit differently.
Rubbish, in 1995 Trump was a Democrat for starters, Bill Clinton was friendly with Adams even as President, Obama said his closest ally was Merkel not May, Bush Snr was closer to Kohl than Thatcher etc, May was the first foreign leader invited to the White House by Trump for a reason
Whether Trump was a Democrat or not is irrelevant. He gave money to the Provos months before they started bombing in the UK again.
Yes, Trump invited May to the White House because he knew that she would prostrate herself and the UK in front of him. Despite all his policies and pronouncements being hostile to UK interests, as defined by May.
Trump backed Brexit unlike Hillary when few other leading world politicians would apart from former PM of Australia John Howard and a few European far right figures, Hillary would firmly have put the EU before the UK, Trump clearly prefers May to Macron and Merkel, Hillary would have preferred Merkel and Macron to May. In 1995 Trump backed the Clintons who also were friendly with Gerry Adams,, he had different views back then
Of course our capital city was to seek to score cheap political points from it. He is profoundly anti-British.
Nope the Clintons were in the White House in the 1990s and friendly with Adams and McGuinness, Trump is in the White House now and friendly with Brexiteers. Like it or not we are leaving the EU and Trump supported the UK voters in that even before he became President, a big gamble, Merkel only last week effectively dumped the UK and US as 'dependable partners' to the EU post Brexit Britain is not a reliable ally anymore, not an enemy as such but not an ally either, while the EU is now moving more towards China. The US, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, even India are now more reliable allies for post Brexit UK than the EU
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
I don't know how much money the Lib Dems have had to spend on this election but I live in Bath and I have endless facebook ads for them. A variety of expensive looking ones too, with animated bar charts defeating each other and all sorts. Only one low budget ad from Labour with the candidate talking to a phone camera.
The Lib Dem candidate is actually our next door neighbour, I really like her and I don't have the heart to tell her I won't be voting for her.
Are you going to give us a clue who you will be voting for? (Sorry for asking).
Tory, I cannot countenance a PM who cheered on child murderers from the IRA and May is the alternative.
Unlike others here I still quite like her in any case, although I wish she would leave off the tax cuts.
I deliberately haven't included any London seats apart from three on the boundary with the home counties.
Living in London, there is a visible labour surge. Tories will make a net loss of seats in London even in outer London.
There could well will be a Labour surge all over London, but you know that the Tories are only defending one seat in London against Labour with a majority of less than 7.5%, and the next most marginal seat is in Barnet (Hendon) which will probably behave differently to the rest of London? The Tories are fortunate that Croydon Central looks like being the only seat they could lose to Labour even if there's a big movement of votes in the capital.
Making deportation of non-UK citizens easier is something I'd strongly support. But I share your concerns in other areas. For example, on the Sky paper review Stig Abell was saying a QC had told him the threshold of evidence should be reduced from beyond reasonable doubt to on the balance of probabilities in terrorism cases, because convictions are so hard to come by.
If that happened, I think we'd see it rapidly decline for sex crimes too (to 'improve' conviction rates). Miscarriages of justice would increase, confidence in the system would decline.
It may, however, nevertheless be popular. But it would also be grist to the propaganda mill. I would not support diluting British justice. However, there isn't an easy answer. We can't criminalise motorists and cutlery, so attacks can always happen.
My own approach would be a First Amendment type law to protect free speech more strongly rather than have it under constant pressure from the terminally oversensitive, authoritarians and religious zealots; to actually enforce existing laws properly and not turn a blind eye due to cultural sensitivities; to axe free translation services so that people either pay themselves or are forced to learn English to improve integration.
I think those would be steps in the right direction.
Gove will not help Mrs. May one iota, he is one of the most toxic brands in the party after his knife was firmly placed first in Cameron's and then Johnson's back. In any case May and Gove have been enemies since major turf wars in the Cameron era. It is true Gove might help shore up support from Murdoch but May need hardly fear Murdoch will desert her for Corbyn. anyway. It is true Gove has been flatteirng her desperately in the hope of some comeback, he even went on record she was 'right' to sack him. But this toadying does not endear him to anyone.
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
Gove will not help Mrs. May one iota, he is one of the most toxic brands in the party after his knife was firmly placed first in Cameron's and then Johnson's back. In any case May and Gove have been enemies since major turf wars in the Cameron era. It is true Gove might help shore up support from Murdoch but May need hardly fear Murdoch will desert her for Corbyn. anyway. It is true Gove has been flatteirng her desperately in the hope of some comeback, he even went on record she was 'right' to sack him. But this toadying does not endear him to anyone.
I guess from you wholesale misrepresentations there that you are not a fan of Gove.
A Labour whip unleashed a four-letter tirade at a blind man for getting in her way during a fraught exchange in the Houses of Parliament.
Lyn Brown, the burly MP for West Ham, barged into the back of Talksport political editor Sean Dilley, and his golden retriever guide dog, as he was walking in a corridor towards Portcullis House.
Witnesses were shocked to see a clearly stressed Miss Brown bulldoze into the back of Mr Dilley before overtaking him, shouting: 'For ****'s sake, move out of my ******* way.'
On topic people have been saying May has been diminished. Not sure I agree inasmuch as this is her first time of scrutiny. All leaders have a honeymoon before that. So what level of majority would mean she is not dismissed? I think 80. That is the top level of my expectations
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
Welcome back. The election has drawn me back too. I haven't seen one mention of the Garden Tax on my Facebook.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is nothing reliable about Trump full stop. But just like over here the joy of democracy is that the yanks get a chance to get rid of him again in three and a half years. Meanwhile we maintain a good relationship with the country irrespective of wo is sat in the Oval Office. Being a consistent ally through thick and thin does count for something.
I don't necessarily agree with TSE that May will have been diminished by the election. If she secures her own watertight mandate i.e a majority in excess of 40 or more and becomes more collegiate in approach having been chastened by and drawing lessons from the general election experience it might instead be the making of her and her government. Gove must return if only to boost her talent pool..
TSE is correct.
Mrs May has been significantly diminished by the campaign, that frankly has been an absolute shambles from start of finish. She has truly become the "Poundshop Prime Minister".
The Conservatives are saved on the electoral high street by the fact that Jezza's Labour party are bankrupt stock, UKIP are going into liquidation and the LibDems retain only a few market stalls through out the land.
The PM is a very lucky politician .... for now.
She's going to get 5 years to blossom. I doubt it will happen, but you never know.
I don't necessarily agree with TSE that May will have been diminished by the election. If she secures her own watertight mandate i.e a majority in excess of 40 or more and becomes more collegiate in approach having been chastened by and drawing lessons from the general election experience it might instead be the making of her and her government. Gove must return if only to boost her talent pool..
TSE is correct.
Mrs May has been significantly diminished by the campaign, that frankly has been an absolute shambles from start of finish. She has truly become the "Poundshop Prime Minister".
The Conservatives are saved on the electoral high street by the fact that Jezza's Labour party are bankrupt stock, UKIP are going into liquidation and the LibDems retain only a few market stalls through out the land.
The PM is a very lucky politician .... for now.
Morning Jack. Yes I absolutely agree with your comments about the shambolic campaign which doesn't reflect well on her. I think the point I was making was about going forward- can she learn her lessons from the last seven weeks and change her spots accordingly? If so n she could still eventually emerge stronger from the experience despite the short term hit to her credibility.
Good morning.
Indeed so. The challenges for the government are huge - national security, the crisis in the NHS, social care, education, BREXIT and the deficit to name but many.
The omens are not good. Cameron keeping ministers in place was a wise policy and it has allowed us to evaluate the PM's time at the Home Office - oh dear. So far her tenure as PM has seen her enjoy one of the longest political honeymoons in history. Despite the undeserved landslide she is about to receive she will shortly find that soundbites like "BREXIT means BREXIT" and "STRONG and STABLE" are no substitute for effective government. She has to get a grip, otherwise :
The electorate will decide that "ENOUGH is ENOUGH".
On topic, Gove is clearly ferociously bright, an entertaining if 'marmite' character, etc, but he also clearly has the political sense of a mushroom. I don't buy the hypothesis that the right man to be trusted adviser and consigliere to the PM is politician who is terminally indiscreet and managed, through his ham-fisted maneuvering, to destroy his own leadership campaign as collateral damage in the betrayal of a colleague who (rather naively in my view) trusted him as an ally.
Oh, and for all those Ruthie fanciers, she is not popular in SCON. She was going to lose her constituency support in Glasgow before she decided to move to Edinburgh, and from gossip, she is seemingly not popular here, either, in the local party. Too much blatant ambition, and too little humility.
While I may agree with your general points about Ruthy, since she was a Glasgow list msp, what had her already minimal Glasgow constituency support to do with anything?
Well done on keeping the tattered SLab flag flying tho'!
The constituency I live in was solid Tory until 1997 Edinburgh Pentlands, now Edinburgh South, Malcolm Rifkind, ring any bells, nice chap, very clever. Have friends who are tory members, still, but as long as they buy the beer..... ;-)
Oh, and Ruthie really manged to annoy her Glasgow constituency parties, rumours of deselection, heard some "details" but cannot confirm, even if I could be bothered.
My brother lives in Gilmerton, though I imagine he doesn't mix in the same circles as yersel. Fwiw I think Murray will keep his seat, though the irony of it being mainly down to the good offices of a man he recently described as destroying the Labour party will be tasty.
Gove will not help Mrs. May one iota, he is one of the most toxic brands in the party after his knife was firmly placed first in Cameron's and then Johnson's back. In any case May and Gove have been enemies since major turf wars in the Cameron era. It is true Gove might help shore up support from Murdoch but May need hardly fear Murdoch will desert her for Corbyn. anyway. It is true Gove has been flatteirng her desperately in the hope of some comeback, he even went on record she was 'right' to sack him. But this toadying does not endear him to anyone.
Gove really does have a way with words and can explain and defend policy very well. Unfortunately for him his annoying face, voice and his reputation and character are all hindrances.
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
There's been a whole election going on away from the traditional media. Thank fuck for that.
If this had been a boxing match, it would have been a heavyweight against a lightweight. Yet in the opening rounds, the whippet-like smaller boxer kept whipping in jabs and crosses and keeping the heavier boxer off balance, despite their height and weight advantage. Cries of cowardice came from the partisan crowd at the large boxer's inactivity.
In the middle rounds, the heavyweight was forced to hold and try to use their weight without landing any clean punches. The crowd became more restless.
With the final bell nearing the Heavyweight was penned into the corner, and in desperation kneed the smaller boxer in the balls with the HRA. Once the small boxer was groggy, the result was inevitable.
More relief than exhilaration from the crowd, but a scrappy win satisfied no one.
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
Everything will depend on whether Corbyn stands down, or not. – While there is a ‘true socialist’ leading the party, the new membership will have their figure head to rally around and motivate them. If Corbyn goes however, there’ll be an epic melt down that will reshape the party in ways unknown.
Corbynism has now probably taken hold of Labour for up to a decade, May will win comfortably but Corbyn's increased voteshare will ensure he and his allies retain control of the party post defeat
Depends what you define as Corbynism.
On defence and security Corbyn is undoubtedly a minority voice - see conference votes on nukes and NATO, for example. That will not change. Economically, it is undoubtedly the case that the party has moved left. This actually leaves plenty of room for compromise.
On topic people have been saying May has been diminished. Not sure I agree inasmuch as this is her first time of scrutiny. All leaders have a honeymoon before that. So what level of majority would mean she is not dismissed? I think 80. That is the top level of my expectations
I predict 90-100 maj.
Tories hate a failure but by the same token love a success and I think anything north of 40 looks like success for these purposes. Bear in mind also her power of patronage: any tory thinking to scheme against her needs to reflect on the fate of George Osborne.
Gove will not help Mrs. May one iota, he is one of the most toxic brands in the party after his knife was firmly placed first in Cameron's and then Johnson's back. In any case May and Gove have been enemies since major turf wars in the Cameron era. It is true Gove might help shore up support from Murdoch but May need hardly fear Murdoch will desert her for Corbyn. anyway. It is true Gove has been flatteirng her desperately in the hope of some comeback, he even went on record she was 'right' to sack him. But this toadying does not endear him to anyone.
Gove really does have a way with words and can explain and defend policy very well. Unfortunately for him his annoying face, voice and his reputation and character are all hindrances.
And he argues his corner in cabinet. May clearly does not like that kind of person.
"F*** you, I'm all right Jack" has been the mentality that the Tories have sought to instil, reinforce and benefit from since the 1950s. It has appeared in different forms: "You've never had it so good", council tax sales, "people's capitalism", "there's no such thing as society". It is both selfish and nasty.
LOL. Your lack of basic comprehension and your wild eyed lefty lunacy do brighten up the place. Every village needs it's idiot and you certainly fit the bill perfectly.
Rubbish, in 1995 Trump was a Democrat for starters, Bill Clinton was friendly with Adams even as President, Obama said his closest ally was Merkel not May, Bush Snr was closer to Kohl than Thatcher etc, May was the first foreign leader invited to the White House by Trump for a reason
Whether Trump was a Democrat or not is irrelevant. He gave money to the Provos months before they started bombing in the UK again.
Yes, Trump invited May to the White House because he knew that she would prostrate herself and the UK in front of him. Despite all his policies and pronouncements being hostile to UK interests, as defined by May.
Trump backed Brexit unlike Hillary when few other leading world politicians would apart from former PM of Australia John Howard and a few European far right figures, Hillary would firmly have put
Of course our capital city was to seek to score cheap political points from it. He is profoundly anti-British.
Nope the Clintons were in the White House in the 1990s and friendly with Adams and McGuinness, Trump is in the White House now and friendly with Brexiteers. Like it or not we are leaving the EU and Trump supported the UK voters in that even before he became President, a big gamble, Merkel only last week effectively dumped the UK and US as 'dependable partners' to the EU post Brexit Britain is not a reliable ally anymore, not an enemy as such but not an ally either, while the EU is now moving more towards China. The US, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, even India are now more reliable allies for post Brexit UK than the EU
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
No Theresa May recognises the reality of post Brexit UK even if diehard EUphiles like you do not. The fact May is toughening anti terror law rhetoric now and restricting human rights laws is a reflection that she recognises the British public want change as Trump's tweet reflected
I have I just seen a lot of people on my social that I never think they would vote Tory, not that politically engaged and would be attracted to corbyn are now sharing / commenting on labours garden tax.
Should have been out there days ago, but as I said then - the most toxic thing I have seen on this campaign has been the four words "Jeremy Corbyn's Garden Tax"......
I think some of us on here noted she seemed "different" several weeks ago. It is strange she was allowed to hang on for so long. Not a good refection on JC I'd suggest.
" Kezia Dugdale, the leader of Scottish Labour, has said it is “not inconceivable” that she could back a vote for the independence in the event that doing so could secure Scotland’s membership of the European Union, and dismissed suggestions that her party will finish behind the Scottish Conservatives in an interview with the Fabian Review. " https://twitter.com/ianssmart/status/872198400346861570
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
Everything will depend on whether Corbyn stands down, or not. – While there is a ‘true socialist’ leading the party, the new membership will have their figure head to rally around and motivate them. If Corbyn goes however, there’ll be an epic melt down that will reshape the party in ways unknown.
Corbynism has now probably taken hold of Labour for up to a decade, May will win comfortably but Corbyn's increased voteshare will ensure he and his allies retain control of the party post defeat
Depends what you define as Corbynism.
On defence and security Corbyn is undoubtedly a minority voice - see conference votes on nukes and NATO, for example. That will not change. Economically, it is undoubtedly the case that the party has moved left. This actually leaves plenty of room for compromise.
Polls of Labour members show they back Corbyn on most issues regardless of conference compromises cobbled together by unions and MPs
Mr. Eagles, she sounds wretched. That's a horrible thing to do.
Mr. Scrapheap, it's almost as if Owen Jones doesn't know what he's doing. It's why I like this place. People get paid by results, not for regurgitating received wisdom or mindlessly backing a party line.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
There's been a whole election going on away from the traditional media. Thank fuck for that.
I have had three e mails already today from CCHQ with requests to forward across the social media. Indeed I have never witnessed the full on personalised e mail onslaught from the conservative party before
I have I just seen a lot of people on my social that I never think they would vote Tory, not that politically engaged and would be attracted to corbyn are now sharing / commenting on labours garden tax.
You know when you are reading bullshit on a Wednesday morning by a astoturfer .
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
There's a lesson for the next Labour leader though, from day 1 he should be putting vast energies into reaching to the 65+ demographics. Policy should be focused grouped at Saga, not at University. It's the vital election winning demographic they are failing with.
Or she.
I agree, and you can extend the lesson.
If you want to put roughly 1/4 of your entire current spending pledges into one headline policy, it's better to make the main beneficiaries those who are old enough to vote. So focus on writing off a large amount of tuition fee debt of those in their late 20s and 30s as well as reducing the additional 9% income tax rate that all basic rate taxpaying graduates this millenia effectively pay, rather than putting all your eggs into abolishing tuition fees for a new generation of future voters aged 18 or less.
What about a compromise between the two? Make student loan repayments tax deductible?
Imagine the fun Labour would have if the Tories proposed a policy to subsidise higher rate tax payers?
imagine the country we would live, if partisan tories put country first party second.
matter of time before tory mps remove her.
So a policy which disproportionately favours graduate higher rate tax payers is in the interests of the country?
If you say so. Personally I can think of better uses of the money.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Humiliation for no obvious gain.
Trump has only come round to backing NATO and moved away from Putin largely because of May
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Humiliation for no obvious gain.
Trump has only come round to backing NATO and moved away from Putin largely because of May
So a policy which disproportionately favours graduate higher rate tax payers is in the interests of the country?
If you say so. Personally I can think of better uses of the money.
We should have a "fair" graduate tax, and every graduate should pay an extra 2% income tax for the rest of their lives. Which should shut up the moaners and bring in more money.
after all is said and done, if T May gets back in lets say with a majority of 50, what actually has been achieved? We were waiting until May 2020 for an election, so all she has done is bought another 20-22 months in power with aa slightly bigger majority - at the expense of her own credibility and almost 3 months wasted of A50 negotiations. What (from a Tory perspective) has actually been achieved if she gets a moderate majority on Thu night.
So a policy which disproportionately favours graduate higher rate tax payers is in the interests of the country?
If you say so. Personally I can think of better uses of the money.
We should have a "fair" graduate tax, and every graduate should pay an extra 2% income tax for the rest of their lives. Which should shut up the moaners and bring in more money.
Not sure London North West Uni Hairdressing Studies alumni will be happy.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Humiliation for no obvious gain.
Trump has only come round to backing NATO and moved away from Putin largely because of May
Of course :-D
There would have been no strike on Assad and no Trump commitment to NATO without May, as the UK pays its way in terms of the defence budget that also makes him more likely to listen
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
Everything will depend on whether Corbyn stands down, or not. – While there is a ‘true socialist’ leading the party, the new membership will have their figure head to rally around and motivate them. If Corbyn goes however, there’ll be an epic melt down that will reshape the party in ways unknown.
Corbynism has now probably taken hold of Labour for up to a decade, May will win comfortably but Corbyn's increased voteshare will ensure he and his allies retain control of the party post defeat
Depends what you define as Corbynism.
On defence and security Corbyn is undoubtedly a minority voice - see conference votes on nukes and NATO, for example. That will not change. Economically, it is undoubtedly the case that the party has moved left. This actually leaves plenty of room for compromise.
Polls of Labour members show they back Corbyn on most issues regardless of conference compromises cobbled together by unions and MPs
The last poll of Labour members showed that 68% of them felt Corbyn should step down after an election defeat.
Conference votes involve unions, CLPs and affiliated organisations, not MPs. Labour policy is Labour policy.
Morning all. Unpleasant bout of summer flu here. Last throw of the dice time for Labour. Diane's illness would not lead to her standing aside in normal circumstances a day before the election, she'd just do it after if there wasn't a clear problem with her on the doorstep. It's all very odd and there's plenty you could say but perhaps it's just best to say get well soon Diane and be done with it. Owen Jones black ops tweets both hilarious and interesting. Sounds a bit as if Tory high command are going in for the kill on Labour, which would hint at their internal polling being way way out of sync with the printed ones. I wonder if they have identified what they consider an ELE for Labour for a generation and are pushing it as hard as they can? A highly risky 200 seat majority strategy with dozens and dozens of marginals? Or has Jones worked out that tweeting such things will harden the anti Corbyn vote and is rowing back Furiously? I'm genuinely unsure whether in 36 hours time it will be Labour minority or 200 seat Tory landslide.
David, can you explain how and why Craig Whyte was found not guilty?
Is there something I'm missing about Scottish law?
Donald Findlay QC is a truly exceptional advocate but he is also a blue nose to the core. Having him represent Whyte suggested that the Rangers establishment had nothing to complain about.
Which might well be true. Murray wanted out at any price and wasn't being picky about who the next owner of the club were. Ticketus are big boys who should be able to look after themselves. Whyte is frankly a bit of a fantasist (disclosure I have been involved in 2 actions against him over the years) and not the sharpest tool in the box.
Where is the crime? He may have misrepresented how much money he had but he was only asked for £1. He may not have been truthful but who was in the shambles that was Rangers?
The difference between what Whyte tried to do and the £1bn the Glazers have made out of Man U is that Rangers went bust. Both sought to use the clubs own money to buy it. One failed and one has been spectacularly successful. Whatever the view might be on such business practices they are not inherently illegal.
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
Welcome back. The election has drawn me back too. I haven't seen one mention of the Garden Tax on my Facebook.
Thanks for the welcome! I don't think the garden tax thing is going to win or lose the election - just curious that it had to some extent cut through where it seems other Tory messages didn't.
I think some of us on here noted she seemed "different" several weeks ago. It is strange she was allowed to hang on for so long. Not a good refection on JC I'd suggest.
Friend of mine who I discover is quite close to some (at least OUAT) senior `Labour figures auggested that yesterday. Said he’d be ‘in contact’!
after all is said and done, if T May gets back in lets say with a majority of 50, what actually has been achieved? We were waiting until May 2020 for an election, so all she has done is bought another 20-22 months in power with aa slightly bigger majority - at the expense of her own credibility and almost 3 months wasted of A50 negotiations. What (from a Tory perspective) has actually been achieved if she gets a moderate majority on Thu night.
Any increased majority increases her room for manoeuvre, I think it may be closer to 100 than 50 though 150 is gone now
So a policy which disproportionately favours graduate higher rate tax payers is in the interests of the country?
If you say so. Personally I can think of better uses of the money.
We should have a "fair" graduate tax, and every graduate should pay an extra 2% income tax for the rest of their lives. Which should shut up the moaners and bring in more money.
Not sure London North West Uni Hairdressing Studies alumni will be happy.
I don't care, I simply favour giving the moaners what they'd ask for.
BOGOF. Buy one Gove, get one free. Gove is very well worth having (on a leash) but his wife has a soapbox of her own and very big mouth - and the leash does not exist that would hold her back. .
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Up to a point you have a point, but as with sucking up to Saudi Arabia it is silly pretending it is a tory thing: all PMs do it. May is doing it, but she is a million miles from Blair virtually fellating Bush or Brown trying to corner Obama in a kitchen.
On topic, Gove is clearly ferociously bright, an entertaining if 'marmite' character, etc, but he also clearly has the political sense of a mushroom. I don't buy the hypothesis that the right man to be trusted adviser and consigliere to the PM is politician who is terminally indiscreet and managed, through his ham-fisted maneuvering, to destroy his own leadership campaign as collateral damage in the betrayal of a colleague who (rather naively in my view) trusted him as an ally.
Accurate and succinctly put Mr Worlds, - welcome back to PB.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Doing just that to GWB was what did for Tony Blair.
Comments
Is there something I'm missing about Scottish law?
This way it only gets a day to be aired so the policy can't be dug into too deeply. Because the reality is it is complicated stuff. I note Starmer said it was a "distraction" rather than outright condemning May for it, which sounded like an equivocation to me.
It is a fantastic last minute dead cat.
Sounds a thoroughly decent sort.....
The Lib Dem candidate is actually our next door neighbour, I really like her and I don't have the heart to tell her I won't be voting for her.
I suppose your next gripe will be the Tories offering a referendum has killed UKIP, and that is bad for the democratic process...
You really are thick as a whole wall of bricks....
I will stop updating after tomorrow, honest.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3078659/New-sports-minister-Tracey-Crouch-Tottenham-fan-FA-qualified-coach-spoken-against-Russia-Qatar-World-Cups.html
https://twitter.com/tracey_crouch/status/801180498001362944
'LibDem general election boss reported to fiscal over Holyrood spending
POLICE have reported the chair of the Scottish Liberal Democrats' general election campaign to the Crown Office over alleged criminality relating to the 2016 Holyrood election.'
http://tinyurl.com/y8xb5k8b
It's been 7 years since I last troubled pb.com, but dipped in here a couple of days ago to see what was afoot and the addiction has gripped me again with a vengeance... *refresh....refresh....refresh* etc!
A few thoughts -
- I see certain parallels on here with 2010 - the PB Tory herd (of which I count myself a long lapsed member) producing what seem to me to be wildly optimistic predictions which I just can't see. Hope I'm wrong. For what it's worth, I think Mrs May will secure a majority in the range of 35-45 seats, but I am a natural pessimist, recall waking up to find Leave and then Trump had triumphed, and must confess to an element of pant wetting.
- I was struck last night by an interaction on the dreaded Twitter between Prof Matthew Goodwin of my alma mater UKC and another whose name escapes me to the effect that some (many?) of the seat forecasters seem driven far too much by the stats to the exclusion of any sense for the reality of the ground in a particular constituency.
- Whimsically - Sci-fi aficionados among us might be familiar with Iain M Banks' Excession - in my view his finest work - in which a group of great intelligences - in Banks' parlance, 'Minds' gather together to cogitate and share their wisdom in a time of turmoil. They called themselves the 'Interesting Times Gang'. Lurking on this place over the last few days reminded me of this - with old (and, if you'll forgive me @JackW, sometimes VERY old) names I recall from the 2010 debates and equally wise and insightful new participants. Indeed it's been fun to see some dormant members return over the course of the week to add their voices to the group mind. Bit pretentious, perhaps, but I enjoyed the thought.
Anyway, enough of this pomposity. I hope to add a few insight of my own in the coming days.
May all your wagers be fruitful.
Last night I sold my investment in the Tories not getting a majority, at a small four-figure profit. I sold it when I saw the cover pages of the Daily Mail and especially of the filthy rag called the Sun. The Sun expresses so well what the Tories wish to do to this country. I don't believe the country can compete successfully with the Tories, the Sun, and the traitors in MI5 at the present time.
@RobD, to answer your question: you may not have seen the Sun's photo of Millwall thug Roy Lerner who fought the jihadist murderers in London and sustained injuries doing so. He is reported to have said "F*** you, I'm Millwall" before taking them on. The photo shows him in his hospital bed holding a Millwall flag. (Click here). (For the avoidance of doubt, even someone of Mr Lerner's ilk can do a brave and right action at the right time, and if the account of his response is accurate then on Saturday that is certainly what he did. In any event, I wish him a speedy recovery. But that does not stop him from being a Millwall thug.) I would have posted that photo here, but retaining a sense of ethics - clearly absent among the scumbags who have been spooking, spying on and lying about Diane Abbott - I chose not to. Really on the left hand side as well as a picture of Diane Abbott and a red flag, the image should have the ISIS flag and perhaps a picture of IRA men in their uniforms too. For full effect it could also include some far more bloody images. If the Tories win this election, as they almost certainly now will, this will be how they have done it. They have not done it by intellectual argument. Mass politics is mostly about emotion. This is the worst day for our country for a long long time. It is probably the lowest I have ever known the right-wing press stoop.
Always good for a laugh, our Cyan.
I wonder how long before you blame the voters - that is generally the hallmark of the left.
Kinnock did that twice as I recall - in 1987 and again in 2015. He came on the TV and scolded the voters for being so selfish and nasty as not to vote for his party.
"F*** you, I'm all right Jack" has been the mentality that the Tories have sought to instil, reinforce and benefit from since the 1950s. It has appeared in different forms: "You've never had it so good", council tax sales, "people's capitalism", "there's no such thing as society". It is both selfish and nasty.
Are you the Venezuelan ambassador
Oh, and Ruthie really manged to annoy her Glasgow constituency parties, rumours of deselection, heard some "details" but cannot confirm, even if I could be bothered.
The most depressing thing about brexit was the revelation that the UK is as full of snobs as it ever has been. The snobbery is just distributed a bit differently.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
Unlike others here I still quite like her in any case, although I wish she would leave off the tax cuts.
For @Cyan supporting Milwall equivocates to terrorism.
Got it.
Making deportation of non-UK citizens easier is something I'd strongly support. But I share your concerns in other areas. For example, on the Sky paper review Stig Abell was saying a QC had told him the threshold of evidence should be reduced from beyond reasonable doubt to on the balance of probabilities in terrorism cases, because convictions are so hard to come by.
If that happened, I think we'd see it rapidly decline for sex crimes too (to 'improve' conviction rates). Miscarriages of justice would increase, confidence in the system would decline.
It may, however, nevertheless be popular. But it would also be grist to the propaganda mill. I would not support diluting British justice. However, there isn't an easy answer. We can't criminalise motorists and cutlery, so attacks can always happen.
My own approach would be a First Amendment type law to protect free speech more strongly rather than have it under constant pressure from the terminally oversensitive, authoritarians and religious zealots; to actually enforce existing laws properly and not turn a blind eye due to cultural sensitivities; to axe free translation services so that people either pay themselves or are forced to learn English to improve integration.
I think those would be steps in the right direction.
Mr. Worlds, welcome back.
A Labour whip unleashed a four-letter tirade at a blind man for getting in her way during a fraught exchange in the Houses of Parliament.
Lyn Brown, the burly MP for West Ham, barged into the back of Talksport political editor Sean Dilley, and his golden retriever guide dog, as he was walking in a corridor towards Portcullis House.
Witnesses were shocked to see a clearly stressed Miss Brown bulldoze into the back of Mr Dilley before overtaking him, shouting: 'For ****'s sake, move out of my ******* way.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015202/MP-letter-blast-blind-man-Out-way-Labour-whip-shouts-reporter.html
erm...
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/872372232026296321
http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/
Indeed so. The challenges for the government are huge - national security, the crisis in the NHS, social care, education, BREXIT and the deficit to name but many.
The omens are not good. Cameron keeping ministers in place was a wise policy and it has allowed us to evaluate the PM's time at the Home Office - oh dear. So far her tenure as PM has seen her enjoy one of the longest political honeymoons in history. Despite the undeserved landslide she is about to receive she will shortly find that soundbites like "BREXIT means BREXIT" and "STRONG and STABLE" are no substitute for effective government. She has to get a grip, otherwise :
The electorate will decide that "ENOUGH is ENOUGH".
In the middle rounds, the heavyweight was forced to hold and try to use their weight without landing any clean punches. The crowd became more restless.
With the final bell nearing the Heavyweight was penned into the corner, and in desperation kneed the smaller boxer in the balls with the HRA. Once the small boxer was groggy, the result was inevitable.
More relief than exhilaration from the crowd, but a scrappy win satisfied no one.
On defence and security Corbyn is undoubtedly a minority voice - see conference votes on nukes and NATO, for example. That will not change. Economically, it is undoubtedly the case that the party has moved left. This actually leaves plenty of room for compromise.
Tories hate a failure but by the same token love a success and I think anything north of 40 looks like success for these purposes. Bear in mind also her power of patronage: any tory thinking to scheme against her needs to reflect on the fate of George Osborne.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4578758/The-Mail-s-essential-tactical-voting-guide.html
Lord Falconer is to resign.
Should have been out there days ago, but as I said then - the most toxic thing I have seen on this campaign has been the four words "Jeremy Corbyn's Garden Tax"......
https://twitter.com/ianssmart/status/872198400346861570
Mr. Scrapheap, it's almost as if Owen Jones doesn't know what he's doing. It's why I like this place. People get paid by results, not for regurgitating received wisdom or mindlessly backing a party line.
https://twitter.com/LabourWin2022/status/863626603192037376
Enjoy a comfortable Tory majority everyone!
If you say so. Personally I can think of better uses of the money.
Conference votes involve unions, CLPs and affiliated organisations, not MPs. Labour policy is Labour policy.
Owen Jones black ops tweets both hilarious and interesting. Sounds a bit as if Tory high command are going in for the kill on Labour, which would hint at their internal polling being way way out of sync with the printed ones. I wonder if they have identified what they consider an ELE for Labour for a generation and are pushing it as hard as they can? A highly risky 200 seat majority strategy with dozens and dozens of marginals? Or has Jones worked out that tweeting such things will harden the anti Corbyn vote and is rowing back Furiously?
I'm genuinely unsure whether in 36 hours time it will be Labour minority or 200 seat Tory landslide.
Which might well be true. Murray wanted out at any price and wasn't being picky about who the next owner of the club were. Ticketus are big boys who should be able to look after themselves. Whyte is frankly a bit of a fantasist (disclosure I have been involved in 2 actions against him over the years) and not the sharpest tool in the box.
Where is the crime? He may have misrepresented how much money he had but he was only asked for £1. He may not have been truthful but who was in the shambles that was Rangers?
The difference between what Whyte tried to do and the £1bn the Glazers have made out of Man U is that Rangers went bust. Both sought to use the clubs own money to buy it. One failed and one has been spectacularly successful. Whatever the view might be on such business practices they are not inherently illegal.
Edited for missing word