On topic, Gove is clearly ferociously bright, an entertaining if 'marmite' character, etc, but he also clearly has the political sense of a mushroom. I don't buy the hypothesis that the right man to be trusted adviser and consigliere to the PM is politician who is terminally indiscreet and managed, through his ham-fisted maneuvering, to destroy his own leadership campaign as collateral damage in the betrayal of a colleague who (rather naively in my view) trusted him as an ally.
Accurate and succinctly put Mr Worlds, - welcome back to PB.
Thanks - I should add, it's clear to me that Mrs May does need a Willie and/or Keith Joseph, but I don't think Gove fits the bill for either. Clear her current crop of advisors needs leavening (or removing) though.
Rubbish, in 1995 Trump was a Democrat for starters, Bill Clinton was friendly with Adams even as President, Obama said his closest ally was Merkel not May, Bush Snr was closer to Kohl than Thatcher etc, May was the first foreign leader invited to the White House by Trump for a reason
Whether Trump was a Democrat or not is irrelevant. He gave money to the Provos months before they started bombing in the UK again.
Yes, Trump invited May to the White House because he knew that she would prostrate herself and the UK in front of him. Despite all his policies and pronouncements being hostile to UK interests, as defined by May.
Trump backed Brexit unlike Hillary when few other leading world politicians would apart from former PM of Australia John Howard and a few European far right figures, Hillary would firmly have put
Of course our capital city was to seek to score cheap political points from it. He is profoundly anti-British.
Nope are now more reliable allies for post Brexit UK than the EU
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
No Theresa May recognises the reality of post Brexit UK even if diehard EUphiles like you do not. The fact May is toughening anti terror law rhetoric now and restricting human rights laws is a reflection that she recognises the British public want change as Trump's tweet reflected
Yes, the reality of post-Brexit Britain is prostrating ourselves at the feet of an anti-British US president in the vain hope he might give us some kind of trade deal. I get that I am in a minority in regretting that, but there you go. I currently have the freedom to express that view.
May is toughening her rhetoric now and flip-flopping on the ECHR because she is desperate for positive headlines in the right wing press. And I get that is our new reality, too.
In the old days of pb there would be comedy nastiness from some towards others - indeed when I first posted here I got my share of stick from Mark Senior - Martin Day was a comedy loon but don't remember the vitriolic poisonous nastiness towards others of some posters now, though that might be rose tinted specs.
What happened to good satirical posters like the Professor or the magnificently bonkers snowflake5? Corbynism seems to encourage and promote a level of tin foil hattery and vitriolic snobbery I don't remember from a few years back.
I only checked in here for the election as I now live in Denmark and can view it more objectively - good to see there's still a lot of wise old hands around Which guide me to making 1 bet - tories to retain OxWab
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Doing just that to GWB was did for Tony Blair.
Yep - that was popular too at the start. Then looked what happened.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Doing just that to GWB was did for Tony Blair.
Indeed, though to be fair to Blair he did at least get GWB to commit to a Palestinan state.
Human rights law featuring on both Sky and BBC with Sky saying it will be popular and predictably labour oppose. Corbyn on Sky endorsing human right laws enforcing the view he is soft on terrorism
It is such an obvious bear trap.
Maybe add that 5% for shy Tories after all.
My only known LD schoolmate was talking about the need for stronger action in wartime on FB just yesterday...
Yep - it will do May plenty of good electorally. But it does show yet again what a flip-flopper she is when she is desperate for a positive headline in the Daily Mail. She is a profoundly weak PM.
What I find astounding is that people think that the removal of Human Rights will only affect terrorists....
They don't value human rights. To the extent they get in the way (as they see it) of important things like security they are a costly distraction.
I think, why would you choose human wrongs instead?
Mrs May has form in presenting the deletion of human rights as the solution to a problem she has failed to fix.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Humiliation for no obvious gain.
Trump has only come round to backing NATO and moved away from Putin largely because of May
Of course :-D
There would have been no strike on Assad and no Trump commitment to NATO without May, as the UK pays its way in terms of the defence budget that also makes him more likely to listen
David, can you explain how and why Craig Whyte was found not guilty?
Is there something I'm missing about Scottish law?
Donald Findlay QC is a truly exceptional advocate but he is also a blue nose to the core. Having him represent Whyte suggested that the Rangers establishment had nothing to complain about.
Which might well be true. Murray wanted out at any price and wasn't being picky about who the next owner of the club were. Ticketus are big boys who should be able to look after themselves. Whyte is frankly a bit of a fantasist (disclosure I have been involved in 2 actions against him over the years) and not the sharpest tool in the box.
Where is the crime? He may have misrepresented how much money he had but he was only asked for £1. He may not have been truthful but who was in the shambles that was Rangers?
The difference between what Whyte tried to do and the £1bn the Glazers have made out of Man U is that Rangers went bust. Both sought to use the clubs own money to buy it. One failed and one has been spectacularly successful. Whatever the view might be on such business practices they are not inherently illegal.
Also the prosecution seem to have botched this bigstyle and the list of defendants dwindle from many to one. Bungled raids, witnesses not called, charges dropped. The previous owner has a lot to answer for too.
There is a book or two in the whole farango - some people who were never near the court made a lot of money at the expense of the common fans...
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
Everything will depend on whether Corbyn stands down, or not. – While there is a ‘true socialist’ leading the party, the new membership will have their figure head to rally around and motivate them. If Corbyn goes however, there’ll be an epic melt down that will reshape the party in ways unknown.
Corbynism has now probably taken hold of Labour for up to a decade, May will win comfortably but Corbyn's increased voteshare will ensure he and his allies retain control of the party post defeat
Depends what you define as Corbynism.
On defence and security Corbyn is undoubtedly a minority voice - see conference votes on nukes and NATO, for example. That will not change. Economically, it is undoubtedly the case that the party has moved left. This actually leaves plenty of room for compromise.
Polls of Labour members show they back Corbyn on most issues regardless of conference compromises cobbled together by unions and MPs
The last poll of Labour members showed that 68% of them felt Corbyn should step down after an election defeat.
Conference votes involve unions, CLPs and affiliated organisations, not MPs. Labour policy is Labour policy.
It showed Corbyn still first choice for Labour leader and beating all comers, if he improves the Labour voteshare as is now likely he will probably beat Cooper, Starmer or whoever the PLP put up against him with the membership
I don't necessarily agree with TSE that May will have been diminished by the election. If she secures her own watertight mandate i.e a majority in excess of 40 or more and becomes more collegiate in approach having been chastened by and drawing lessons from the general election experience it might instead be the making of her and her government. Gove must return if only to boost her talent pool..
TSE is correct.
Mrs May has been significantly diminished by the campaign, that frankly has been an absolute shambles from start of finish. She has truly become the "Poundshop Prime Minister".
The Conservatives are saved on the electoral high street by the fact that Jezza's Labour party are bankrupt stock, UKIP are going into liquidation and the LibDems retain only a few market stalls through out the land.
The PM is a very lucky politician .... for now.
Morning Jack. Yes I absolutely agree with your comments about the shambolic campaign which doesn't reflect well on her. I think the point I was making was about going forward- can she learn her lessons from the last seven weeks and change her spots accordingly? If so n she could still eventually emerge stronger from the experience despite the short term hit to her credibility.
Good morning.
Indeed so. The challenges for the government are huge - national security, the crisis in the NHS, social care, education, BREXIT and the deficit to name but many.
The omens are not good. Cameron keeping ministers in place was a wise policy and it has allowed us to evaluate the PM's time at the Home Office - oh dear. So far her tenure as PM has seen her enjoy one of the longest political honeymoons in history. Despite the undeserved landslide she is about to receive she will shortly find that soundbites like "BREXIT means BREXIT" and "STRONG and STABLE" are no substitute for effective government. She has to get a grip, otherwise :
The electorate will decide that "ENOUGH is ENOUGH".
Indeed so. Her record at the Home Office wasn't discussed much at the time of her anointment or during her extended honeymoon. Only now when she's taken some admittedly deserved flak is the issue raised She'd no doubt argue in mitigation that her freedom to act in some areas was curtailed by the presence of Lib Dems in government for 5 of her 6 years. Also I understand reported general crime fell despite police cuts. Maybe the truth is nuanced.
Oh, and for all those Ruthie fanciers, she is not popular in SCON. She was going to lose her constituency support in Glasgow before she decided to move to Edinburgh, and from gossip, she is seemingly not popular here, either, in the local party. Too much blatant ambition, and too little humility.
While I may agree with your general points about Ruthy, since she was a Glasgow list msp, what had her already minimal Glasgow constituency support to do with anything?
Well done on keeping the tattered SLab flag flying tho'!
The constituency I live in was solid Tory until 1997 Edinburgh Pentlands, now Edinburgh South, Malcolm Rifkind, ring any bells, nice chap, very clever. Have friends who are tory members, still, but as long as they buy the beer..... ;-)
Oh, and Ruthie really manged to annoy her Glasgow constituency parties, rumours of deselection, heard some "details" but cannot confirm, even if I could be bothered.
Ruth Davidson is an openly gay woman who isn't old enough to be your grannie and funny to boot. Inevitably she rubbed a lot of more "traditional" tories up the wrong way. In doing so and by recasting the brand as something significantly different she saved the Scottish Tories from total extinction and made them relevant.
Where she goes from here will be interesting but I see very few if any of her quality in May's current cabinet.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Doing just that to GWB was did for Tony Blair.
Yep - that was popular too at the start. Then looked what happened.
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
Everything will depend on whether Corbyn stands down, or not. – While there is a ‘true socialist’ leading the party, the new membership will have their figure head to rally around and motivate them. If Corbyn goes however, there’ll be an epic melt down that will reshape the party in ways unknown.
Corbynism has now probably taken hold of Labour for up to a decade, May will win comfortably but Corbyn's increased voteshare will ensure he and his allies retain control of the party post defeat
Depends what you define as Corbynism.
On defence and security Corbyn is undoubtedly a minority voice - see conference votes on nukes and NATO, for example. That will not change. Economically, it is undoubtedly the case that the party has moved left. This actually leaves plenty of room for compromise.
Polls of Labour members show they back Corbyn on most issues regardless of conference compromises cobbled together by unions and MPs
The last poll of Labour members showed that 68% of them felt Corbyn should step down after an election defeat.
Conference votes involve unions, CLPs and affiliated organisations, not MPs. Labour policy is Labour policy.
It showed Corbyn still first choice for Labour leader and beating all comers, if he improves the Labour voteshare as is now likely he will probably beat Cooper, Starmer or whoever the PLP put up against him with the membership
And will water down the PLP role in appointing his successor, provided he makes it through to Conference.
If that happened, I think we'd see it rapidly decline for sex crimes too (to 'improve' conviction rates). Miscarriages of justice would increase, confidence in the system would decline.
It may, however, nevertheless be popular.
Undoubtedly. People forget that such legislation was not dreamt up for fun, but based on past judicial cockups. Are we really going back to the "Good Old Days" when the police could "sweat" a confession out of a suspect because they knew he/she must be guilty?
My own approach would be a First Amendment type law to protect free speech more strongly rather than have it under constant pressure from the terminally oversensitive, authoritarians and religious zealots;
There is nothing wrong with free speech in this country Mr Dancer. People are free to say anything they like - look at The Mail, The Canary, etc. What people complain about is the consequences of opening their mouths to exercise that free speech. As the old saying has it - free speech does not protect you from yelling "Fire! Fire!" in a crowded theatre.
... to actually enforce existing laws properly and not turn a blind eye due to cultural sensitivities; to axe free translation services so that people either pay themselves or are forced to learn English to improve integration.
I think those would be steps in the right direction
Agreed. Cultural sensitivities should NOT be allowed to override the law of the land.
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
Welcome back. The election has drawn me back too. I haven't seen one mention of the Garden Tax on my Facebook.
Thanks for the welcome! I don't think the garden tax thing is going to win or lose the election - just curious that it had to some extent cut through where it seems other Tory messages didn't.
No all I get is adds for funeral plans do they know something I don't?
David, can you explain how and why Craig Whyte was found not guilty?
Is there something I'm missing about Scottish law?
Donald Findlay QC is a truly exceptional advocate but he is also a blue nose to the core. Having him represent Whyte suggested that the Rangers establishment had nothing to complain about.
Which might well be true. Murray wanted out at any price and wasn't being picky about who the next owner of the club were. Ticketus are big boys who should be able to look after themselves. Whyte is frankly a bit of a fantasist (disclosure I have been involved in 2 actions against him over the years) and not the sharpest tool in the box.
Where is the crime? He may have misrepresented how much money he had but he was only asked for £1. He may not have been truthful but who was in the shambles that was Rangers?
The difference between what Whyte tried to do and the £1bn the Glazers have made out of Man U is that Rangers went bust. Both sought to use the clubs own money to buy it. One failed and one has been spectacularly successful. Whatever the view might be on such business practices they are not inherently illegal.
The whitewash procedure went away a long time ago. Under a Labour government.
I see he has the Blues gaining Ynys Mon and PC down to 2 seats. I don't think I've seen any prediction has them gaining seats but they are still odds on to get over 3.5, presumably because they're odds on to win Ynys Mon. I guess the big national models don't predict seats like YM as well as other seats.
BOGOF. Buy one Gove, get one free. Gove is very well worth having (on a leash) but his wife has a soapbox of her own and very big mouth - and the leash does not exist that would hold her back. .
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
There's been a whole election going on away from the traditional media. Thank fuck for that.
I have had three e mails already today from CCHQ with requests to forward across the social media. Indeed I have never witnessed the full on personalised e mail onslaught from the conservative party before
I got one this morning with a clip of the Kezia/Nicola spat about the "private conversation". Unfortunately for CCHQ I am not on twitter or on facebook so it will go no further.
Got it - so Theresa May is wrong about what is best for the UK strategically.
There is nothing reliable about a US President who has personally contributed money to the IRA and who uses terrorist attacks on British cities to score cheap political points. I understand, though, why you would say otherwise :-D
There is also a difference between forming an alliance with some give and take and just acting as a patsy prostrating yourself at the feet of the most widely reviled politician in the democratic world even following outrageous comments of the nature that we saw this weekend. To gain some respect and leverage it is necessary also to show resilience i.e. the existence of some reasonable red lines. "Enough is enough" ought to apply to Trump's comments. Frankly I'm beyond caring about whether or not cosying up gains or diminishes the UK's influence, it's the shear humiliation of this country that is really galling as we continue to cosy up to Trump.
Doing just that to GWB was did for Tony Blair.
Yep - that was popular too at the start. Then looked what happened.
Blair got re elected in 2005?
And very quickly gone afterwards. The British public does not like the British PM being seen to be subservient to an overbearing US president. And GWB was not anti-British in the way that Trump is.
I see he has the Blues gaining Ynys Mon and PC down to 2 seats. I don't think I've seen any prediction has them gaining seats but they are still odds on to get over 3.5, presumably because they're odds on to win Ynys Mon. I guess the big national models don't predict seats like YM as well as other seats.
I see PC picking up Ynys Mon and Ceredigion. Just possibl;y one in the Valleys, toop.
No Theresa May recognises the reality of post Brexit UK even if diehard EUphiles like you do not. The fact May is toughening anti terror law rhetoric now and restricting human rights laws is a reflection that she recognises the British public want change as Trump's tweet reflected
May is always wanking on about tearing up the ECHR and then always rows back.
It's the British equivalent of banning abortion that Republican president's always kind of promise but never do.
*small cough*. Have to confess that this idea has started tinkling faintly at the back my brain. Nah. Wishful thinking. Innit.
Edit: I had a substantial last minute win on CON MAJ in 2015. Which means nothing, of course. Nothing at all. Forget I said it.
Well expectations management does suggest this represents upper end if things take off like 97. Bolsover is in play.... if it truly is, 200 is possible.
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
There's been a whole election going on away from the traditional media. Thank fuck for that.
I have had three e mails already today from CCHQ with requests to forward across the social media. Indeed I have never witnessed the full on personalised e mail onslaught from the conservative party before
I got one this morning with a clip of the Kezia/Nicola spat about the "private conversation". Unfortunately for CCHQ I am not on twitter or on facebook so it will go no further.
That is interesting. I have not had anything to do with Scotland. Maybe CCHQ is targeting the individual messages and that will be very effective if so.
Seems big row in Scotland between Sturgeon and Dugdale is dominating there
Theresa May has as much chance of emulating Mrs Thatcher as I have of giving birth to a tortoise. The only thing that might save her is a 70 plus majority ans some very good deals on the Brexit front.
Whilst I agree things were a bit nicer in the past, they've also been much worse than this (referendum is nastier than election).
Ah yes I bet referendum time was worse - I stayed well out of that, voted Remain (just) and now am 1 of those 'get on with it' people - but caused lots of bad feeling in my family - hope there's never another referendum ever about anything!
On the topic of this thread, does Mrs May really need a Mad Monk?
What a ghastly prospect. In the US and UK, which have gone furthest, the 'unfettered free market' delivers the results set out in The Spirit Level.
If her instincts are socially conservative and economically more centrist, which I slightly doubt, she doesn't need a Mad Monk. She needs to listen to Peter Hitchens
Theresa May has as much chance of emulating Mrs Thatcher as I have of giving birth to a tortoise. The only thing that might save her is a 70 plus majority ans some very good deals on the Brexit front.
In the old days of pb there would be comedy nastiness from some towards others - indeed when I first posted here I got my share of stick from Mark Senior - Martin Day was a comedy loon but don't remember the vitriolic poisonous nastiness towards others of some posters now, though that might be rose tinted specs.
What happened to good satirical posters like the Professor or the magnificently bonkers snowflake5? Corbynism seems to encourage and promote a level of tin foil hattery and vitriolic snobbery I don't remember from a few years back.
I only checked in here for the election as I now live in Denmark and can view it more objectively - good to see there's still a lot of wise old hands around Which guide me to making 1 bet - tories to retain OxWab
So a policy which disproportionately favours graduate higher rate tax payers is in the interests of the country?
If you say so. Personally I can think of better uses of the money.
We should have a "fair" graduate tax, and every graduate should pay an extra 2% income tax for the rest of their lives. Which should shut up the moaners and bring in more money.
I don't necessarily agree with TSE that May will have been diminished by the election. If she secures her own watertight mandate i.e a majority in excess of 40 or more and becomes more collegiate in approach having been chastened by and drawing lessons from the general election experience it might instead be the making of her and her government. Gove must return if only to boost her talent pool..
TSE is correct.
Mrs May has been significantly diminished by the campaign, that frankly has been an absolute shambles from start of finish. She has truly become the "Poundshop Prime Minister".
The Conservatives are saved on the electoral high street by the fact that Jezza's Labour party are bankrupt stock, UKIP are going into liquidation and the LibDems retain only a few market stalls through out the land.
The PM is a very lucky politician .... for now.
Morning Jack. Yes I absolutely agree with your comments about the shambolic campaign which doesn't reflect well on her. I think the point I was making was about going forward- can she learn her lessons from the last seven weeks and change her spots accordingly? If so n she could still eventually emerge stronger from the experience despite the short term hit to her credibility.
Good morning.
Indeed so. The challenges for the government are huge - national security, the crisis in the NHS, social care, education, BREXIT and the deficit to name but many.
The omens are not good. Cameron keeping ministers in place was a wise policy and it has allowed us to evaluate the PM's time at the Home Office - oh dear. So far her tenure as PM has seen her enjoy one of the longest political honeymoons in history. Despite the undeserved landslide she is about to receive she will shortly find that soundbites like "BREXIT means BREXIT" and "STRONG and STABLE" are no substitute for effective government. She has to get a grip, otherwise :
The electorate will decide that "ENOUGH is ENOUGH".
Indeed so. Her record at the Home Office wasn't discussed much at the time of her anointment or during her extended honeymoon. Only now when she's taken some admittedly deserved flak is the issue raised She'd no doubt argue in mitigation that her freedom to act in some areas was curtailed by the presence of Lib Dems in government for 5 of her 6 years. Also I understand reported general crime fell despite police cuts. Maybe the truth is nuanced.
I think the only nuance we should note is that she was Home Secretary and not her LibDem junior minister Norman Baker - heaven preserve us !! ....
No Theresa May recognises the reality of post Brexit UK even if diehard EUphiles like you do not. The fact May is toughening anti terror law rhetoric now and restricting human rights laws is a reflection that she recognises the British public want change as Trump's tweet reflected
May is always wanking on about tearing up the ECHR and then always rows back.
It's the British equivalent of banning abortion that Republican president's always kind of promise but never do.
It looks like she is derogating from it as was done in Northern Ireland
ANECDOTE ALERT - Haven't figured out how this new-fangled nested-commenting apparatus works yet, but to @FrancisUrquhart below on the Garden Tax - that has also been my experience. A swing voting mate (voted Labour in 2015) on an average income but in a family house he bought with the legacy of his parents is terrified by it. Posting anti-Labour stuff all over his FB page. He's not the only one.
There's been a whole election going on away from the traditional media. Thank fuck for that.
I have had three e mails already today from CCHQ with requests to forward across the social media. Indeed I have never witnessed the full on personalised e mail onslaught from the conservative party before
I got one this morning with a clip of the Kezia/Nicola spat about the "private conversation". Unfortunately for CCHQ I am not on twitter or on facebook so it will go no further.
That is interesting. I have not had anything to do with Scotland. Maybe CCHQ is targeting the individual messages and that will be very effective if so.
Seems big row in Scotland between Sturgeon and Dugdale is dominating there
SNP vote reluctantly firming up - the enthusiasm of GE2015 is gone - but the SCON message of "only we can beat the SNP here" is doubledged !
No Theresa May recognises the reality of post Brexit UK even if diehard EUphiles like you do not. The fact May is toughening anti terror law rhetoric now and restricting human rights laws is a reflection that she recognises the British public want change as Trump's tweet reflected
May is always wanking on about tearing up the ECHR and then always rows back.
It's the British equivalent of banning abortion that Republican president's always kind of promise but never do.
It looks like she is derogating from it as was done in Northern Ireland
She put staying in the EHCR in her manifesto though.
I deliberately haven't included any London seats apart from three on the boundary with the home counties.
Living in London, there is a visible labour surge. Tories will make a net loss of seats in London even in outer London.
There could well will be a Labour surge all over London, but you know that the Tories are only defending one seat in London against Labour with a majority of less than 7.5%, and the next most marginal seat is in Barnet (Hendon) which will probably behave differently to the rest of London? The Tories are fortunate that Croydon Central looks like being the only seat they could lose to Labour even if there's a big movement of votes in the capital.
Jewish voters have Labour's measure I think. Before trying to take seats like Hendon, F+GG, and Barnet, Labour must first take their party back from their anti-Semites.
Gove will not help Mrs. May one iota, he is one of the most toxic brands in the party after his knife was firmly placed first in Cameron's and then Johnson's back. In any case May and Gove have been enemies since major turf wars in the Cameron era. It is true Gove might help shore up support from Murdoch but May need hardly fear Murdoch will desert her for Corbyn. anyway. It is true Gove has been flatteirng her desperately in the hope of some comeback, he even went on record she was 'right' to sack him. But this toadying does not endear him to anyone.
Whenever I read anything about Gove I am somehow reminded of Fouché, Napoleon's completely duplicitous chief of police, who trained to be a priest and managed to serve every French government from 1792 to the second abdication including the republics, then the consulate, then the emperor, then the king, then the emperor.
Napoleon later said his biggest regret was that he'd never got around to having Fouché shot.
I expect everyone feels that way about Gove, or will do, soon.
"F*** you, I'm all right Jack" has been the mentality that the Tories have sought to instil, reinforce and benefit from since the 1950s. It has appeared in different forms: "You've never had it so good", council tax sales, "people's capitalism", "there's no such thing as society". It is both selfish and nasty.
LOL. Your lack of basic comprehension and your wild eyed lefty lunacy do brighten up the place. Every village needs it's idiot and you certainly fit the bill perfectly.
Richard
I don't always by any means agree with what you write but your skilfully matter-of-fact rudeness toward abject buffoons always brightens my time here.
Let's assume labour are going to lose, what impact will it have on the enthusiasm of labours new members when they get up on Saturday morning, having been out drowning their sorrows and blaming everything from MSM to MI5. Will they take a short break and then get down to the serious work of winning elections or will they melt away and revert to there normal pastimes
Everything will depend on whether Corbyn stands down, or not. – While there is a ‘true socialist’ leading the party, the new membership will have their figure head to rally around and motivate them. If Corbyn goes however, there’ll be an epic melt down that will reshape the party in ways unknown.
Corbynism has now probably taken hold of Labour for up to a decade, May will win comfortably but Corbyn's increased voteshare will ensure he and his allies retain control of the party post defeat
Depends what you define as Corbynism.
On defence and security Corbyn is undoubtedly a minority voice - see conference votes on nukes and NATO, for example. That will not change. Economically, it is undoubtedly the case that the party has moved left. This actually leaves plenty of room for compromise.
Polls of Labour members show they back Corbyn on most issues regardless of conference compromises cobbled together by unions and MPs
The last poll of Labour members showed that 68% of them felt Corbyn should step down after an election defeat.
Conference votes involve unions, CLPs and affiliated organisations, not MPs. Labour policy is Labour policy.
@ Mr Observer
Wasn't that in contemplation of such a defeat being in line with the then polling, though? I.e. epic defeat?
I wonder if they would still think that if he lost on say 36%, a score that the vagaries of FPTP gave Blair a majority. Corbyn might well reverse the decline in the polls that Labour has been suffering since 1997. He'd then have a good argument, and surely enhanced authority, for staying on to finish what he started, would he not.
Comments
May is toughening her rhetoric now and flip-flopping on the ECHR because she is desperate for positive headlines in the right wing press. And I get that is our new reality, too.
What happened to good satirical posters like the Professor or the magnificently bonkers snowflake5? Corbynism seems to encourage and promote a level of tin foil hattery and vitriolic snobbery I don't remember from a few years back.
I only checked in here for the election as I now live in Denmark and can view it more objectively - good to see there's still a lot of wise old hands around Which guide me to making 1 bet - tories to retain OxWab
I think, why would you choose human wrongs instead?
Mrs May has form in presenting the deletion of human rights as the solution to a problem she has failed to fix.
https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/872378265285144576
Does she have the self confidence to have not only Gove but to continue with Johnson and Hammond and not just YES men in her Cabinet?
Yes - I'm hearing they think 80/90 plus majority
There is a book or two in the whole farango - some people who were never near the court made a lot of money at the expense of the common fans...
Where she goes from here will be interesting but I see very few if any of her quality in May's current cabinet.
Labour have done great tactics with poor strategy.
Sun Tzu:" Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat"
Edit: I had a substantial last minute win on CON MAJ in 2015. Which means nothing, of course. Nothing at all. Forget I said it.
How the mighty have fallen
Whilst I agree things were a bit nicer in the past, they've also been much worse than this (referendum is nastier than election).
It's the British equivalent of banning abortion that Republican president's always kind of promise but never do.
Bolsover is in play.... if it truly is, 200 is possible.
A labour government would never suffer this fact. Never, ever under any circumstances.
Seems big row in Scotland between Sturgeon and Dugdale is dominating there
What a ghastly prospect. In the US and UK, which have gone furthest, the 'unfettered free market' delivers the results set out in The Spirit Level.
If her instincts are socially conservative and economically more centrist, which I slightly doubt, she doesn't need a Mad Monk. She needs to listen to Peter Hitchens
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/may-theresa/
NEW THREAD
Put simply for Labour, you are very unlikely to win an election whatever you do, if you enter the campaign 20+ behind your opponent.
If Labour do lose this election, it was lost in the Brexit campaign.
The curious thing about the election is that the spoils of victory are only incremental, two years instead of five.
Little use of the Italians tipping off our security services if they do not act on it of course!
Napoleon later said his biggest regret was that he'd never got around to having Fouché shot.
I expect everyone feels that way about Gove, or will do, soon.
I don't always by any means agree with what you write but your skilfully matter-of-fact rudeness toward abject buffoons always brightens my time here.
Wasn't that in contemplation of such a defeat being in line with the then polling, though? I.e. epic defeat?
I wonder if they would still think that if he lost on say 36%, a score that the vagaries of FPTP gave Blair a majority. Corbyn might well reverse the decline in the polls that Labour has been suffering since 1997. He'd then have a good argument, and surely enhanced authority, for staying on to finish what he started, would he not.