my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
These sorts of TV interviews move nothing at all. They only register with the public if the interviewee drops a massive clanger. Corbyn won't.
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Genuinely 73 year old undecided voter. Will not vote for waffle and wriggle. Why did Andrew Neil not ask why she supported Remain - and then, when the British public opted for Leave - did she decide she was the best person to lead Leave ? I don't think Corbyn is a natural leader - but he appears honest in his views. I haven't a clue what May actually believes -other than she wants - and thinks - she is PM material. In the interview she never admitted she had made a U-turn. When she thought something was positive it was 'I' - when there was something she could not defend - it was 'We'. Will the interview change anything. No - folk have already decided. I have. Not Theresa May.
Thanks for that, previously unheard of astroturfer, sorry, commenter.
Was amusing how they went from genuinely undedicded to having already decided.
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
The Welsh numbers feed into my scepticism about YouGov. Wobbling about all over the place. Am much more inclined to take ICM seriously - they've been very consistent up until today, and the picture they present - of the Tories holding more-or-less stable whilst the anti-Tory vote coalesces around Labour - makes considerably more sense.
Meanwhile, been watching the local news this evening. Anglia are doing a trip down the A10, stopping off at a different town each day to interview people about the election. Today they started off in Downham Market, a town in Norfolk quite a long way from London, which is neither particularly wealthy nor poor. The main subjects raised by the townsfolk were jobs and Brexit. Little sign of a rebellion over elderly care in a place where there aren't too many huge inheritances at stake.
A "rogue poll" has always been one that a PB poster disagrees with!
Well, what is one supposed to make of an 8% swing between two surveys conducted relatively close together? It *might* actually be right, but it does look a bit dodgy. Have the interests of such a substantial proportion of the electorate changed that quickly? Has the electorate grown that volatile? Again, perhaps they have, but it does look a little bit strange.
It's possible the Wales poll was reflecting a Rhodri Morgan sympathy vote, in which case the swing could reverse back just as quickly.
Bit of that, and some natural variation
Also I say this quietly but I'm wondering if Yougov has some severe panel effects of the politically overinterested - the politically uninterested are far more Brexity I think, even than leavers on the Yougov Panel. They'll generally be a bit more Tory methinsk..
What will the future hold for polling if after this election it is found that there is still a problem with sampling? 4-5 years ago I used to fill in frequent surveys for YouGov to try to get my points up to £50 worth. After a while I started to get asked to do political polls quite regularly. It almost felt like a reward for ploughing through all the dreary stuff. Now I only do occasional surveys and have not been asked to do a political one for over three years. Perhaps my demographic is over-represented. Has anyone else found this?
Yes. I was a regular customer until about 2 years ago. As a Lib Dem I was obviously surplus to requirements.
As a very old-fashioned type of Liberal I've probably been deleted altogether.
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
Can't believe you aren't using his regnal name. Very inappropriate.
Granny still loses her house when she dies despite the evasion
My Gran lost her home during the Blair years when she needed care.
Well the new policy means a massive expansion in House losing.
Nobody currently receiving care at home can lose their house.
That all changed a week ago.
80% of people getting social care get it at home.
They now have worries that didnt exist a week ago.
Under the policy no one receiving care at home would lose their house. More importantly no one receiving care in a carehome would lose it either. The money would only be taken from the estate after the deaths of the elderly person and their partner. That is a vast improvement on the current situation.
Moreover care at home is a fraction of the cost of care in a carehome. For the vast majority of people receiving care at home they are getting an hour a day - sometimes a couple of hours. The cost is around £17 an hour so you are looking at something like £20 a day - maybe £7,500 - £8,000 a year. So the claim on the estate would not be a vast amount compared to the value of most estates. Overall it is certainly a vast improvement on the current situation for both the individuals and the country.
Genuinely 73 year old undecided voter. Will not vote for waffle and wriggle. Why did Andrew Neil not ask why she supported Remain - and then, when the British public opted for Leave - did she decide she was the best person to lead Leave ? I don't think Corbyn is a natural leader - but he appears honest in his views. I haven't a clue what May actually believes -other than she wants - and thinks - she is PM material. In the interview she never admitted she had made a U-turn. When she thought something was positive it was 'I' - when there was something she could not defend - it was 'We'. Will the interview change anything. No - folk have already decided. I have. Not Theresa May.
Thanks for that, previously unheard of astroturfer, sorry, commenter.
Was amusing how they went from genuinely undedicded to having already decided.
Be nice to newbies
I took him to mean he'd decided against May but still dazzled by the array of alternatives on offer.
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
Would that be the same Queen who shared a platform with an (ex) IRA terrorist?
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
He couldn't have done it if Andrea Leadsom hadn't invented the Maxim Gun.
my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
These sorts of TV interviews move nothing at all. They only register with the public if the interviewee drops a massive clanger. Corbyn won't.
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
He couldn't have done it if Andrea Leadsom hadn't invented the Maxim Gun.
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
It's VC and bar .... different bar from a previous UKIP leader .....
The whole immigration section of the interview was bizarre. Her logic seemed to be that people want someone they can trust to pretend they are trying to reduce the numbers so that's why it's important to keep a promise of a cap that won't be met.
Corbyn will be on his own against AN. No notes to read from, no autocue, no assistants, including that lady who guides him onto podiums. It could be a real bloodbath, and the wake up call the waverers need and potential converts need.
I do hope he loses his cool. If he does, the landslide is back on.
my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
Would that be the same Queen who shared a platform with an (ex) IRA terrorist?
I bet she wasn't too happy about that on a personal level. They killed her cousin.
my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
Would that be the same Queen who shared a platform with an (ex) IRA terrorist?
I thought TMay had one very good line - Corbyn "sneaking into Number 10". That reeks of Crosby. It's a clever image, that this dangerous geriatric Trot could somehow sneak into the job of PM by lying to oldsters. The verb "sneak" was particularly well chosen.
They should use it on posters and in Facebook ads.
That's the worst possible line she could use.
If Jezza makes it, it will be as a result of a general election in which the entire country votes.
Whereas Tezza "sneaked" in on the nod of some Tory MPs...
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
Can we stop this knocking of Paul Nuttall please. Remember this guy is a Hillsborough survivor.
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
Can we stop this knocking of Paul Nuttall please. Remember this guy is a Hillsborough survivor.
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
He couldn't have done it if Andrea Leadsom hadn't invented the Maxim Gun.
whilst rescuing Barings.
But didn't the discovery of penicillin come between those two?
my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
Undoubtedly if AN planned to get this response he would succeed. More relevantly (because I am sure he is too professional to set out to provoke it) it would be very difficult to hold Corbyn properly to account without the danger of provoking it as a side effect.
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
And we will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then comes Brexit.
Tentative signs the wobble is over?
My wobble is certainly over. And I wobble First and Bigly. ICM has calmed me, and this quasi-U-TURN which isn't a total U-TURN is a decent compromise - given the very difficult circumstances (entirely self-inflicted).
Poor Paul Nuttall is going to get murdered by AN tomorrow.
Is he really going on? I suspect this will be the last election UKIP get that kind of opportunity. Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Professor Paul Nuttal won the Victoria Cross, he'll have no fears about facing Andrew Neil
Can we stop this knocking of Paul Nuttall please. Remember this guy is a Hillsborough survivor.
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
And we will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then comes Brexit.
Sky leaders debate too.
Plus the ever-present risk of a tone-deaf encounter with a voter. You could imagine her reassuring someone worried about the dementia tax that their house won't be sold until they're dead.
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
And we will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then comes Brexit.
Tentative signs the wobble is over?
My wobble is certainly over. And I wobble First and Bigly. ICM has calmed me, and this quasi-U-TURN which isn't a total U-TURN is a decent compromise - given the very difficult circumstances (entirely self-inflicted).
Your dry cleaners will be relieved.
I am reminded several times a day of the GoT bring me my red shirt/ bring me my brown trousers joke atm.
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
And we will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then comes Brexit.
Sky leaders debate too.
Plus the ever-present risk of a tone-deaf encounter with a voter. You could imagine her reassuring someone worried about the dementia tax that their house won't be sold until they're dead.
Then she just has to explain how it differs from the current system.
my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
Undoubtedly if AN planned to get this response he would succeed. More relevantly (because I am sure he is too professional to set out to provoke it) it would be very difficult to hold Corbyn properly to account without the danger of provoking it as a side effect.
Surely surely one of AN questions is why the country should install him as PM when only 40 MPs said he was competent just to lead the Labour party and 172 of his own MPs said he was not even qualified or capable for that job? a few resignation quotes might help....
my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
Undoubtedly if AN planned to get this response he would succeed. More relevantly (because I am sure he is too professional to set out to provoke it) it would be very difficult to hold Corbyn properly to account without the danger of provoking it as a side effect.
Surely surely one of AN questions is why the country should install him as PM when only 40 MPs said he was competent just to lead the Labour party and 172 of his own MPs said he was not even qualified or capable for that job? a few resignation quotes might help....
Corbyn will be on his own against AN. No notes to read from, no autocue, no assistants, including that lady who guides him onto podiums. It could be a real bloodbath, and the wake up call the waverers need and potential converts need.
I do hope he loses his cool. If he does, the landslide is back on.
The issue will be numbers. Neil can dig down into just how fantastical the Labour Manifesto is
"Mr Corbyn, this Manifesto makes no sense. On any level whatsoever. Admit it - you're taking the piss with the voters, aren't you?"
The Nuclear bomb for Corbyn is going to be the Monarchy.
Will Andrew Neil explode it when he interviews Corbyn on Friday?
I'm backing Big J to call for an elected monarch, once Liz has abdicated. A decent halfway house that would at least end the fawning over Britain's richest welfare recipients.
The Nuclear bomb for Corbyn is going to be the Monarchy.
Will Andrew Neil explode it when he interviews Corbyn on Friday?
I'm backing Big J to call for an elected monarch, once Liz has abdicated. A decent halfway house that would at least end the fawning over Britain's richest welfare recipients.
Granny still loses her house when she dies despite the evasion
My Gran lost her home during the Blair years when she needed care.
Well the new policy means a massive expansion in House losing.
Nobody currently receiving care at home can lose their house.
That all changed a week ago.
80% of people getting social care get it at home.
They now have worries that didnt exist a week ago.
Under the policy no one receiving care at home would lose their house. More importantly no one receiving care in a carehome would lose it either. The money would only be taken from the estate after the deaths of the elderly person and their partner. That is a vast improvement on the current situation.
Moreover care at home is a fraction of the cost of care in a carehome. For the vast majority of people receiving care at home they are getting an hour a day - sometimes a couple of hours. The cost is around £17 an hour so you are looking at something like £20 a day - maybe £7,500 - £8,000 a year. So the claim on the estate would not be a vast amount compared to the value of most estates. Overall it is certainly a vast improvement on the current situation for both the individuals and the country.
You do not understand how the current system works most do not pay £17 per hour. The most you pay unless you have lots and lots of capital is £41 per week.
I am not going to explain it for the hundreth time particularly to someone like you who has a closed mind on the matter. In my wifes case the£41 per week increases to over £400 pw if the house is part of capital ie 20k per year she is 57 and will need the care till she dies.
my concern is that expectations are so low for Mr Corbyn on friday, that unless he pulls out a combat jacket, a bag of semtex, starts singing the Venezuelan national anthem whilst calling the Queen out for being one of the privileged few then people will say he's done ok.
Undoubtedly if AN planned to get this response he would succeed. More relevantly (because I am sure he is too professional to set out to provoke it) it would be very difficult to hold Corbyn properly to account without the danger of provoking it as a side effect.
Surely surely one of AN questions is why the country should install him as PM when only 40 MPs said he was competent just to lead the Labour party and 172 of his own MPs said he was not even qualified or capable for that job? a few resignation quotes might help....
He'll just say his MPs are shit - what do they know? The Membership trusts him. So should the voters....move on. Next question....
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
And we will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then comes Brexit.
Tentative signs the wobble is over?
My wobble is certainly over. And I wobble First and Bigly. ICM has calmed me, and this quasi-U-TURN which isn't a total U-TURN is a decent compromise - given the very difficult circumstances (entirely self-inflicted).
Sean I thought we had lost yesterday!
But we are back in it!
Remember its not a U-turn on care but clarification!
Now can we *ing concentrate and no more * ups!!!!!!
I voted Remain in the referendum and have voted Conservative in the past. I agree the social care plans and apparent u-turn have been poorly communicated. Theresa May has a lot to prove but surely she is the better alternative to Corbyn to take us through the negotiations?
The Nuclear bomb for Corbyn is going to be the Monarchy.
Will Andrew Neil explode it when he interviews Corbyn on Friday?
I'm backing Big J to call for an elected monarch, once Liz has abdicated. A decent halfway house that would at least end the fawning over Britain's richest welfare recipients.
King Tony? Queen Cherie?
I think things will kick off beyond your wildest dreams on the demise of HM, but until then this is not vote-winning ground.
Corbyn will be on his own against AN. No notes to read from, no autocue, no assistants, including that lady who guides him onto podiums. It could be a real bloodbath, and the wake up call the waverers need and potential converts need.
I do hope he loses his cool. If he does, the landslide is back on.
The issue will be numbers. Neil can dig down into just how fantastical the Labour Manifesto is
"Mr Corbyn, this Manifesto makes no sense. On any level whatsoever. Admit it - you're taking the piss with the voters, aren't you?"
Mr Neil, why do I have to answer questions about costs when the Prime Minister who has all the facts at her disposal did not ?
Theory: the polls are dominating the media coverage of this election, just like they did the last one.
They might not be going on about the polls as much on telly, but they certainly are in the newspapers, and I imagine that they're influencing the thinking of the journalists in all branches of the media.
So much of the focus is on the Tory care plans because the Conservative manifesto is the only one that's being taken seriously. That, in turn, is because the hacks have all bought into the notion that this contest will have only one winner.
They may well be right - but that does mean that Labour can get away with reeling off all sorts of attractive sounding spending commitments, whilst largely getting away without being challenged on how much they're all going to cost and who's going to pay for them.
Labour has made absolutely vast spending commitments - Steve Webb, who is no longer a politician and has no axes to grind, estimated the long-term cost of scrapping state pension rises at £300bn alone, and that's without the more immediate costs of a major renationalisation programme, doing away with student tuition fees, universal free school meals for primary pupils, thousands of extra police and prison officers, and umpteen other commitments. Anything that can't be raised through taxation - and the plans to up income tax for the wealthy and corporation tax for businesses won't nearly cover it, and that's without arguments about the potential for returns falling through use of avoidance schemes and particularly through businesses moving investments, profits and jobs out of the UK - will have to come from borrowing. Increased borrowing, in turn, results in an increased burden of debt repayments, which must ultimately be paid for through spending cuts and/or tax rises anyway.
Labour can get away with criticising the Government, whilst attracting limited scrutiny of its own proposals, because journalists believe that Labour is destined to lose. And so, coverage of this election is warped by expectations created by opinion polling, just like the last one was with all the endless headbanging over a Hung Parliament two years ago.
Looking forward to the Shipman book on this election, especially the plot twist half way through when Nick Timothy has to go crawling on bended knee to Crosby and ask him to take charge.
Neil asked her to explain, which naturally she didn't. Does it signal the begining of the end of Brexit denial? Does she know how dire the consequence of No Deal would be and is preparing us for a U-Turn - i.e., No Deal means No Brexit.?
No, but I wonder if we will see an EFTA-ish-fudge (that could be me, wishful thinking: it's what I want)
I thought TMay had one very good line - Corbyn "sneaking into Number 10". That reeks of Crosby. It's a clever image, that this dangerous geriatric Trot could somehow sneak into the job of PM by lying to oldsters. The verb "sneak" was particularly well chosen.
They should use it on posters and in Facebook ads.
Yes, that's a definite possibility, Sean.
Agreed pretty much with your assessment of the performance. It reminded me of the Peanuts strip where Linus asks Charlie Brown how his day went. 'Great', replies Charlie, 'I survived.'
Granny still loses her house when she dies despite the evasion
My Gran lost her home during the Blair years when she needed care.
Well the new policy means a massive expansion in House losing.
Nobody currently receiving care at home can lose their house.
That all changed a week ago.
80% of people getting social care get it at home.
They now have worries that didnt exist a week ago.
Under the policy no one receiving care at home would lose their house. More importantly no one receiving care in a carehome would lose it either. The money would only be taken from the estate after the deaths of the elderly person and their partner. That is a vast improvement on the current situation.
Moreover care at home is a fraction of the cost of care in a carehome. For the vast majority of people receiving care at home they are getting an hour a day - sometimes a couple of hours. The cost is around £17 an hour so you are looking at something like £20 a day - maybe £7,500 - £8,000 a year. So the claim on the estate would not be a vast amount compared to the value of most estates. Overall it is certainly a vast improvement on the current situation for both the individuals and the country.
You do not understand how the current system works most do not pay £17 per hour. The most you pay unless you have lots and lots of capital is £41 per week.
I am not going to explain it for the hundreth time particularly to someone like you who has a closed mind on the matter. In my wifes case the£41 per week increases to over £400 pw if the house is part of capital ie 20k per year she is 57 and will need the care till she dies.
Goodnight
You are aware of the impact that subsidised care is doing to local authorities.... Within 2 years Newcastle, Liverpool and various others will be providing nothing but social care and legally required services....
I voted Remain in the referendum and have voted Conservative in the past. I agree the social care plans and apparent u-turn have been poorly communicated. Theresa May has a lot to prove but surely she is the better alternative to Corbyn to take us through the negotiations?
The vast bulk of Parliamentarians, including the backbenchers, would be a better choice than the ghastly Corbyn.
I voted Remain in the referendum and have voted Conservative in the past. I agree the social care plans and apparent u-turn have been poorly communicated. Theresa May has a lot to prove but surely she is the better alternative to Corbyn to take us through the negotiations?
Welcome. Dare I say that you copied the above comment from the dictionary entry for "Damning with faint praise"?
The Nuclear bomb for Corbyn is going to be the Monarchy.
Will Andrew Neil explode it when he interviews Corbyn on Friday?
I'm backing Big J to call for an elected monarch, once Liz has abdicated. A decent halfway house that would at least end the fawning over Britain's richest welfare recipients.
Elected for life?
Ishmael
I didn't say it was a vote winner! The older I get, the more hiring I do, the more meritocratic I become - and therefore the more republican. I was once pro-monarchy. Not any more!
I voted Remain in the referendum and have voted Conservative in the past. I agree the social care plans and apparent u-turn have been poorly communicated. Theresa May has a lot to prove but surely she is the better alternative to Corbyn to take us through the negotiations?
Welcome.
A single cell amoeba would be better than Jezza but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of May.
Granny still loses her house when she dies despite the evasion
My Gran lost her home during the Blair years when she needed care.
Well the new policy means a massive expansion in House losing.
Nobody currently receiving care at home can lose their house.
That all changed a week ago.
80% of people getting social care get it at home.
They now have worries that didnt exist a week ago.
Under the policy no one receiving care at home would lose their house. More importantly no one receiving care in a carehome would lose it either. The money would only be taken from the estate after the deaths of the elderly person and their partner. That is a vast improvement on the current situation.
Moreover care at home is a fraction of the cost of care in a carehome. For the vast majority of people receiving care at home they are getting an hour a day - sometimes a couple of hours. The cost is around £17 an hour so you are looking at something like £20 a day - maybe £7,500 - £8,000 a year. So the claim on the estate would not be a vast amount compared to the value of most estates. Overall it is certainly a vast improvement on the current situation for both the individuals and the country.
You do not understand how the current system works most do not pay £17 per hour. The most you pay unless you have lots and lots of capital is £41 per week.
I am not going to explain it for the hundreth time particularly to someone like you who has a closed mind on the matter. In my wifes case the£41 per week increases to over £400 pw if the house is part of capital ie 20k per year she is 57 and will need the care till she dies.
Goodnight
It is you who clearly are clueless. The cost of the care is not proposed to change, only how it is paid for. It is you who have the closed mind. You have a knee jerk reaction against the proposals without even finding out what is proposed. Oh and my numbers are accurate and from direct personal experience with my family.
My next door neighbour has as usual got Vote Labour posters in his windows. I'm tempted to respond but anyway the neighbour is retired ex-army so the posters surprised me this time; maybe the foul connections of Corbyn and co won't have the expected cut through.
Next, was in West Brom over the weekend. West Brom E has been one of the possible surprise Tory gains mentioned on here. All the lampost boards (do they do these everywhere or is it a W Midlands thing?) are already up for Watson (East) and Bailey (West). Nothing from anyone else.
Lastly, bit bizarre. No UKIP standing in my constituency this time (Bham Perry Barr, safe Labour). But the UKIP bloke who stood last time "the waving man" is standing....for the Open Borders Party. I take it he was from the libertarian end of UKIP.
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
And we will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then comes Brexit.
Tentative signs the wobble is over?
My wobble is certainly over. And I wobble First and Bigly. ICM has calmed me, and this quasi-U-TURN which isn't a total U-TURN is a decent compromise - given the very difficult circumstances (entirely self-inflicted).
Sean I thought we had lost yesterday!
But we are back in it!
Remember its not a U-turn on care but clarification!
Now can we *ing concentrate and no more * ups!!!!!!
Not exactly an alternative universe but definitely some kind of parallel reality among the more rabid of the Tories among us :-)
I can't wait now to see how JC gets on on Friday. Having watched TM being so slippery, he might decide to be a bit too honest for his own good? Maybe, but I have a feeling there won't be the meltdown that some Tories are predicting.
Looking forward to the Shipman book on this election, especially the plot twist half way through when Nick Timothy has to go crawling on bended knee to Crosby and ask him to take charge.
So far this election reminds me of '87.
Conservatives in good spirits heading into campaign, but cracks begin to emerge as PM is kept away from voters and Labour score some hits. Polls tighten. People get pinned up against walls with hysterical screaming that they're losing the election. Tories unleash tsunami of 'cling to nurse' campaigning in the closing stages and romp home with comfortable majority.
But will history repeat itself for the PMs fortunes in the following parliament?
I voted Remain in the referendum and have voted Conservative in the past. I agree the social care plans and apparent u-turn have been poorly communicated. Theresa May has a lot to prove but surely she is the better alternative to Corbyn to take us through the negotiations?
Welcome.
A single cell amoeba would be better than Jezza but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of May.
Thanks for the welcome. As I say May has a lot to prove but I have to believe that we can come out f the Brexit negotiations with a positive future and by my recokoning May is the better bet.
One of the few elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
What's left, Question Time? And then the vote.
If the Tories can claw back a couple of points based on the fact Corbyn is an unelectable, mad, terrorist-hugging, IRA-loving, communist-schmoozing traitor, which he is, then they should get an 80 seat majority or higher.
And we will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Then comes Brexit.
Tentative signs the wobble is over?
My wobble is certainly over. And I wobble First and Bigly. ICM has calmed me, and this quasi-U-TURN which isn't a total U-TURN is a decent compromise - given the very difficult circumstances (entirely self-inflicted).
Sean I thought we had lost yesterday!
But we are back in it!
Remember its not a U-turn on care but clarification!
Now can we *ing concentrate and no more * ups!!!!!!
i recall many of us having psychotic wobbles before GE 2015 myself included it was an emotional rollercoaster until the exit polls were released at 10 PM "Cameron to get 316 seats" and I recall TSE's first comment after the exit poll "F.... Me" then we had similar ups and downs before the Brexit night last June. I think last weeks wobble in the end will scare enough people to getting out to vote to prevent Corbyn getting anywhere near the levers of power. it will prevent complacency among tory voters. no it's time to aim the guns firmly at Corbyns head no holds barred .
Looking forward to the Shipman book on this election, especially the plot twist half way through when Nick Timothy has to go crawling on bended knee to Crosby and ask him to take charge.
So far this election reminds me of '87.
Conservatives in good spirits heading into campaign, but cracks begin to emerge as PM is kept away from voters and Labour score some hits. Polls tighten. People get pinned up against walls with hysterical screaming that they're losing the election. Tories unleash tsunami of 'cling to nurse' campaigning in the closing stages and romp home with comfortable majority.
But will history repeat itself for the PMs fortunes in the following parliament?
Yes, it does feel very much like an '87 repeat (though I'm cautiously optimistic the majority won't be as big).
Honestly, my feeling is people were getting irked by May taking an election win for granted, and really didn't like the idea of a complete obliteration of an election win, but fundamentally they still much prefer May to be PM. They just want to make her sweat a bit before getting there.
My next door neighbour has as usual got Vote Labour posters in his windows. I'm tempted to respond but anyway the neighbour is retired ex-army so the posters surprised me this time; maybe the foul connections of Corbyn and co won't have the expected cut through.
Next, was in West Brom over the weekend. West Brom E has been one of the possible surprise Tory gains mentioned on here. All the lampost boards (do they do these everywhere or is it a W Midlands thing?) are already up for Watson (East) and Bailey (West). Nothing from anyone else.
Lastly, bit bizarre. No UKIP standing in my constituency this time (Bham Perry Barr, safe Labour). But the UKIP bloke who stood last time "the waving man" is standing....for the Open Borders Party. I take it he was from the libertarian end of UKIP.
Hi from another PB PBer :-) I miss the lamppost boards - Brum council banned them a few elections ago. Interesting that the Tories have gone so much to leaflets and social media that they're letting Labour have the Sandwell lampposts to themselves.
Neil's tick list of issues to cover is too many to do a decent job in half an hour
Shame it wasn't an hour.
Bring back Brian Walden and Weekend World
I've been saying that for a while. It was in-depth and generally not hostile but gave politicians the chance to loop the rope around their necks and then he just tied the knot. When Parris took over it went downhill.
Walden was excellent, but I think at 85 it's possible he's lost some of his edge...
... On the other hand, I can see why he might be popular here: "he was nicknamed by some "the bookies' MP" when he was revealed to be receiving more from the National Association of Bookmakers than his parliamentary salary. "
If Andrew Neil is going to do the IRA line with Corbyn one question has always interested me. Did Corbyn notify the families of Airey Neave and Anthony Berry that he intended to meet with Adams and McGuiness in the HOC?
Just read a comment by Guido Fawkes, that the MSM have pumped up this controversy over social care because they are BORED. It reminds me of a comment David Cameron made about the media trying to turn politics into another branch of show business. How right he was. They seem to think it is all about them. No other country puts their politicians under a microscope, like we do. I'm amazed anyone wants to go into this profession. Yes, they should be scrutinised but every mistake or gaffe, just results in a massive witch hunt.
Looking forward to the Shipman book on this election, especially the plot twist half way through when Nick Timothy has to go crawling on bended knee to Crosby and ask him to take charge.
Crosby: "Did I, or did I not say, that the most important thing is that we remove all barnacles, and we don't add any others?"
Timothy: "You did, sorry."
Crosby: "So, you go and add a barnacle big enough to house a couple of Portuguese Man-o-War and put it centre stage of the manifesto launch."
Did some phoning tonight and not much mention of social care apart from 1 who wanted more to be done for the elderly. The only negative comment I had about the Tory manifesto was free school lunches being replaced by free breakfasts
Looking forward to the Shipman book on this election, especially the plot twist half way through when Nick Timothy has to go crawling on bended knee to Crosby and ask him to take charge.
So far this election reminds me of '87.
Conservatives in good spirits heading into campaign, but cracks begin to emerge as PM is kept away from voters and Labour score some hits. Polls tighten. People get pinned up against walls with hysterical screaming that they're losing the election. Tories unleash tsunami of 'cling to nurse' campaigning in the closing stages and romp home with comfortable majority.
But will history repeat itself for the PMs fortunes in the following parliament?
Not if she has already u turned on her poll tax or is Philip Hammond John Major?
Neil's tick list of issues to cover is too many to do a decent job in half an hour
Shame it wasn't an hour.
Bring back Brian Walden and Weekend World
I've been saying that for a while. It was in-depth and generally not hostile but gave politicians the chance to loop the rope around their necks and then he just tied the knot. When Parris took over it went downhill.
Walden was excellent, but I think at 85 it's possible he's lost some of his edge...
... On the other hand, I can see why he might be popular here: "he was nicknamed by some "the bookies' MP" when he was revealed to be receiving more from the National Association of Bookmakers than his parliamentary salary. "
It was actually 'The Bookies' Runner'. Remember it well. Mind you, he knew a bit about the biz, but that of course was back in the days when bookies would take a bet, and weren't allowed to cream off easy profits from fruit machines.
I missed the Andrew Neil interview tonight. Has Theresa dodged a bullet?
Only by lying with a chutzpah that would make Nixon blush.
This was all planned. The manifesto did not rule out a cap. The plan was to have a Green paper. I am clarifying that there will be a cap because Corbyn is scaring old people into believing there won't be a cap because we have specifically ruled out a cap and our Cabinet have been on telly all weekend saying there wont be a cap.
They say Napolean wanted lucky generals. And boy, any other Lab leader than Corbyn would now be measuring the curtains for Downing Street.
Next up: Green paper says there can't be a cap as it is unaffordable, but tough tits everyone with dementia because the next election is in 2020.
Bingo...that was it.....I couldn't put my finger on it....
Neil: Mrs May may you are a useless, parochial, small minded Tory who has somehow lucked out and found yourself as PM largely because your party is completely useless and fucked up the referendum;
I missed the Andrew Neil interview tonight. Has Theresa dodged a bullet?
Only by lying with a chutzpah that would make Nixon blush.
This was all planned. The manifesto did not rule out a cap. The plan was to have a Green paper. I am clarifying that there will be a cap because Corbyn is scaring old people into believing there won't be a cap because we have specifically ruled out a cap and our Cabinet have been on telly all weekend saying there wont be a cap.
They say Napolean wanted lucky generals. And boy, any other Lab leader than Corbyn would now be measuring the curtains for Downing Street.
Next up: Green paper says there can't be a cap as it is unaffordable, but tough tits everyone with dementia because the next election is in 2020.
Did some phoning tonight and not much mention of social care apart from 1 who wanted more to be done for the elderly. The only negative comment I had about the Tory manifesto was free school lunches being replaced by free breakfasts
Trouble is, nobody sees whether the child gets a breakfast; but everybody sees whether s/he gets a lunch. Could mean extra expenditure for some families.
Not if she has already u turned on her poll tax or is Philip Hammond John Major?
The person whose meteoric rise will possibly mirror John Major is Amber Rudd, if the rumours are true. Perhaps it will be Rudd to take over as PM when May runs aground over Brexit.
Just read a comment by Guido Fawkes, that the MSM have pumped up this controversy over social care because they are BORED. It reminds me of a comment David Cameron made about the media trying to turn politics into another branch of show business. How right he was. They seem to think it is all about them. No other country puts their politicians under a microscope, like we do. I'm amazed anyone wants to go into this profession. Yes, they should be scrutinised but every mistake or gaffe, just results in a massive witch hunt.
This also leads to politicians answering interview questions a la May - bluster, bluster, duck, dodge, bluster, bore... because they know the consequences of clearly answering questions - they get eaten for breakfast. It's a viscious cycle. Im not a fan of Corbyn, but he was excoriated, particularly in early interviews, for answering questions with his honest and genuine thoughts and views. Yes, they were kooky and nutty for the most part, and not in keeping with mainstream public opinion - but he then essentially got dragged over hot coals for expressing his opinion and the media has not let up since.
Politics is broken in this country, but the media perpetuates the problems, IMHO.
Looking forward to the Shipman book on this election, especially the plot twist half way through when Nick Timothy has to go crawling on bended knee to Crosby and ask him to take charge.
Crosby: "Did I, or did I not say, that the most important thing is that we remove all barnacles, and we don't add any others?"
Timothy: "You did, sorry."
Crosby: "So, you go and add a barnacle big enough to house a couple of Portuguese Man-o-War and put it centre stage of the manifesto launch."
Point of Information: Portuguese Men-o-war are surprisingly tiny!
Comments
One of the few remaining elephant traps negotiated without a fatality.
Nonetheless Nuttall will get a hammering so probably not a bad thing.
Moreover care at home is a fraction of the cost of care in a carehome. For the vast majority of people receiving care at home they are getting an hour a day - sometimes a couple of hours. The cost is around £17 an hour so you are looking at something like £20 a day - maybe £7,500 - £8,000 a year. So the claim on the estate would not be a vast amount compared to the value of most estates. Overall it is certainly a vast improvement on the current situation for both the individuals and the country.
I took him to mean he'd decided against May but still dazzled by the array of alternatives on offer.
I do hope he loses his cool. If he does, the landslide is back on.
If Jezza makes it, it will be as a result of a general election in which the entire country votes.
Whereas Tezza "sneaked" in on the nod of some Tory MPs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ipYmMt1i84
Undoubtedly if AN planned to get this response he would succeed. More relevantly (because I am sure he is too professional to set out to provoke it) it would be very difficult to hold Corbyn properly to account without the danger of provoking it as a side effect.
"Mr Corbyn, this Manifesto makes no sense. On any level whatsoever. Admit it - you're taking the piss with the voters, aren't you?"
Unfortunately I won't see Jeremy on Friday as I am out that night!
I am not going to explain it for the hundreth time particularly to someone like you who has a closed mind on the matter. In my wifes case the£41 per week increases to over £400 pw if the house is part of capital ie 20k per year she is 57 and will need the care till she dies.
Goodnight
Bet365 Ynys Mon Labour 9/1
But we are back in it!
Remember its not a U-turn on care but clarification!
Now can we *ing concentrate and no more * ups!!!!!!
I voted Remain in the referendum and have voted Conservative in the past. I agree the social care plans and apparent u-turn have been poorly communicated. Theresa May has a lot to prove but surely she is the better alternative to Corbyn to take us through the negotiations?
The Plaid odds are way too short there.
I think things will kick off beyond your wildest dreams on the demise of HM, but until then this is not vote-winning ground.
They might not be going on about the polls as much on telly, but they certainly are in the newspapers, and I imagine that they're influencing the thinking of the journalists in all branches of the media.
So much of the focus is on the Tory care plans because the Conservative manifesto is the only one that's being taken seriously. That, in turn, is because the hacks have all bought into the notion that this contest will have only one winner.
They may well be right - but that does mean that Labour can get away with reeling off all sorts of attractive sounding spending commitments, whilst largely getting away without being challenged on how much they're all going to cost and who's going to pay for them.
Labour has made absolutely vast spending commitments - Steve Webb, who is no longer a politician and has no axes to grind, estimated the long-term cost of scrapping state pension rises at £300bn alone, and that's without the more immediate costs of a major renationalisation programme, doing away with student tuition fees, universal free school meals for primary pupils, thousands of extra police and prison officers, and umpteen other commitments. Anything that can't be raised through taxation - and the plans to up income tax for the wealthy and corporation tax for businesses won't nearly cover it, and that's without arguments about the potential for returns falling through use of avoidance schemes and particularly through businesses moving investments, profits and jobs out of the UK - will have to come from borrowing. Increased borrowing, in turn, results in an increased burden of debt repayments, which must ultimately be paid for through spending cuts and/or tax rises anyway.
Labour can get away with criticising the Government, whilst attracting limited scrutiny of its own proposals, because journalists believe that Labour is destined to lose. And so, coverage of this election is warped by expectations created by opinion polling, just like the last one was with all the endless headbanging over a Hung Parliament two years ago.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/866730883172192257
Agreed pretty much with your assessment of the performance. It reminded me of the Peanuts strip where Linus asks Charlie Brown how his day went. 'Great', replies Charlie, 'I survived.'
Something has to give...
Edit: Welcome, BTW.
I didn't say it was a vote winner! The older I get, the more hiring I do, the more meritocratic I become - and therefore the more republican. I was once pro-monarchy. Not any more!
A single cell amoeba would be better than Jezza but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of May.
My next door neighbour has as usual got Vote Labour posters in his windows. I'm tempted to respond but anyway the neighbour is retired ex-army so the posters surprised me this time; maybe the foul connections of Corbyn and co won't have the expected cut through.
Next, was in West Brom over the weekend. West Brom E has been one of the possible surprise Tory gains mentioned on here. All the lampost boards (do they do these everywhere or is it a W Midlands thing?) are already up for Watson (East) and Bailey (West). Nothing from anyone else.
Lastly, bit bizarre. No UKIP standing in my constituency this time (Bham Perry Barr, safe Labour). But the UKIP bloke who stood last time "the waving man" is standing....for the Open Borders Party. I take it he was from the libertarian end of UKIP.
https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/866735753727885312
I can't wait now to see how JC gets on on Friday. Having watched TM being so slippery, he might decide to be a bit too honest for his own good? Maybe, but I have a feeling there won't be the meltdown that some Tories are predicting.
Conservatives in good spirits heading into campaign, but cracks begin to emerge as PM is kept away from voters and Labour score some hits. Polls tighten. People get pinned up against walls with hysterical screaming that they're losing the election. Tories unleash tsunami of 'cling to nurse' campaigning in the closing stages and romp home with comfortable majority.
But will history repeat itself for the PMs fortunes in the following parliament?
Honestly, my feeling is people were getting irked by May taking an election win for granted, and really didn't like the idea of a complete obliteration of an election win, but fundamentally they still much prefer May to be PM. They just want to make her sweat a bit before getting there.
Here's an article about our waving friend Mr Singh http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/waving-man-great-barr-sets-10652695
... On the other hand, I can see why he might be popular here:
"he was nicknamed by some "the bookies' MP" when he was revealed to be receiving more from the National Association of Bookmakers than his parliamentary salary. "
Timothy: "You did, sorry."
Crosby: "So, you go and add a barnacle big enough to house a couple of Portuguese Man-o-War and put it centre stage of the manifesto launch."
This was all planned. The manifesto did not rule out a cap. The plan was to have a Green paper. I am clarifying that there will be a cap because Corbyn is scaring old people into believing there won't be a cap because we have specifically ruled out a cap and our Cabinet have been on telly all weekend saying there wont be a cap.
They say Napolean wanted lucky generals. And boy, any other Lab leader than Corbyn would now be measuring the curtains for Downing Street.
Next up: Green paper says there can't be a cap as it is unaffordable, but tough tits everyone with dementia because the next election is in 2020.
The Lab/Tory odds are perhaps a bit too pro Tory but much of a muchness compared to the big two vs the field.
Neil: Mrs May may you are a useless, parochial, small minded Tory who has somehow lucked out and found yourself as PM largely because your party is completely useless and fucked up the referendum;
Mrs May: I am not Jeremy Corbyn
Neil: Thank fuck for small mercies.....
Politics is broken in this country, but the media perpetuates the problems, IMHO.
Point of Information: Portuguese Men-o-war are surprisingly tiny!
I seriously am beginning to wonder whether this is going to be the biggest surprise result in election history.
Probably not, but has any leader had a worse three days of a GE just after launching their manifesto?