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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marine le Pen might be 26% behind in the polls but she’s attra

SystemSystem Posts: 12,261
edited May 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marine le Pen might be 26% behind in the polls but she’s attracting 90% of bets at Ladbrokes

MARINE LE PEN might be 24% behind in the polls but she's attracting 90% of the bets on the eve of the French Election – @LadPolitics

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Comments

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,993
    First. Strange what proportion of the cash is going on Le Pen?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Second like the fascist
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Oh and remember the French courts have ruled she can be legally called a fascist so not bring disrepute etc on Mike's site by saying that.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Fifth
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    First. Strange what proportion of the cash is going on Le Pen?

    People who regret not making money from Brexit and Trump and are hoping for third time lucky.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Leavers betting with their hearts rather than their heads, I expect.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,527
    Is Le Pen mightier than les polls?
  • Leavers betting with their hearts rather than their heads, I expect.

    Remainers swimming against the tide I expect :)
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,384

    Second like the fascist

    TSE is that you???
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    surbiton said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Don't see much on here re SNP increasing their vote share and number of councillors , already at an all time high, yesterday. Media as ever trying to make out Tories won , they are almost as biased as PB. Did the tide stop at Berwick.

    They were down slightly in terms of numbers based on the notional results on the new boundaries. SNP won, but SCON were the biggest gainers of the night.
    True - though SLAB outperformed expectations more than the Tories.Few expected them to poll 21/22%.
    Looks like they did better than expected mostly in places like Glasgow and Dundee. I think that gives them a very tough ask in the GE - harder than the Tories for picking up a few seats.
    I think Labour could end up with 4 or 5 seats in Scotland. East Lothian - Edinburgh North - Dumbarton - one of the Paisley seats . Also Renfrew East seems to be a threeway marginal.
    I think 3 is possible. I think Dumbarton is part of West Dunbartonshire. East Lothian is on. Labour won both in 2016 Holyrood as well as Edinburgh South.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    Mike, not only 40% in France might vote for the fascist, 30% here in PB could do it.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    Ireland?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Leavers betting with their hearts rather than their heads, I expect.

    Leavers untaxed black money, mostly.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,384

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606
    Gower was one of the big shocks of 2015. Tallying local election results gives Labour a comfortable lead. I just wonder if Labour can pull off a very big shock there?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    Why?

    I would have thought that Europe collapsing into protectionism and recriminations would be a disaster for the British, the French and most of the people of Europe.

  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Easy money for Laddies.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_local_elections,_2017
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,384
    edited May 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Does she want to control which satirical cartoons are acceptable or not?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    rcs1000 said:

    I would have thought that Europe collapsing into protectionism and recriminations would be a disaster for the British, the French and most of the people of Europe.

    It would make Brexit look good by comparison
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    Sandpit said:

    Is Le Pen mightier than les polls?

    Boom boom.

    Here's how Le Pen might be doing better than she appears. According to the polls, about 40% of Melenchon and Fillon voters say they'll abstain in the second round. Which would mean that second round turnout should be sharply lower than in the first round.

    Except turnout in the second round of the French election is *always* higher than in the first. Are these voters shy Le Pen voters?

    Or will they just stay home?

    Or are they genuinely undecided, and might they break late for Macron as the status quo is (currently) the less scary option?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    A question for those active in party politics.

    If I were to be part of a minor regional party, or any party for that matter, and become parish councillor under that banner, would this be a barrier to changing party later down the line?
  • rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The strange thing is people celebrating a fascist 'only' getting 40%ish of the French vote

    The same people who laughed at UKIP coming 2nd from nowhere in by elections, and only getting one seat from 4m votes at the GE.

    Then...

    "Oh fuck, Leave won the referendum... Where were the signs?"

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Nevertheless, numbers are numbers and they tell a story that cannot sensibly be denied even if many people continue to insist that what has happened has not in fact happened. There is a Scottish Conservative and Unionist revival and only fools cannot see it.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/the-tory-revival-in-scotland-belongs-to-the-unionists/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Does she want to control which satirical cartoons are acceptable or not?
    The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

    https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

    1 - yes
    2 - I suspect she'd say "whatever works", so I'll give her a yes there too
    3 - yes
    4 - we don't know yet
    5 - definitely not
    6 - probably not
    7 - yes
    8 - no
    9 - hard to know
    10 - probably not
    11 - no idea
    12 - possibly
    13 - not yet
    14 - maybe that's why people are piling on at Ladbrokes???

    I've said all along that she's more of a Peronist/Kirchner type. An economic model that has worked so well in Argentina.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,993
    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    I've often thought of fascism as being about applying military values to civilian life. No surprise that it emerged in Europe after a generation of young men had spent four years fighting in the trenches. Authoritarian, conformist, nationalistic, even racial superiority.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Ladbrokes may be taking their money but it's not moving the odds, lol.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    edited May 2017
    What order are the votes being counted in? Any chance of the exit polling pushing her odds out, only for them to come in after some early results again? Just curious whether there's money to be made in being quick on the trigger tomorrow, or whether I might as well just chuck even more on Macron for a 24 hour return.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,366
    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    Got this which I assume is in the ball park.

    https://twitter.com/RobertConnell6/status/860833334787809284
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,384

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Nazi_Germany
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894

    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    Got this which I assume is in the ball park.

    https://twitter.com/RobertConnell6/status/860833334787809284
    STV multimember will tend to give low numbers to those who are below the multimember constituency size.
  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    Freggles said:

    A question for those active in party politics.

    If I were to be part of a minor regional party, or any party for that matter, and become parish councillor under that banner, would this be a barrier to changing party later down the line?

    no, as long as you renounced party A before joining party B. However, would be a bit odd to join party A knowing that you fully intended to join party B.
    Most parish councils a) have vacancies / don't have contested elections b) are apolitical with even people who belong to one of the main parties and campaign for them at district/county level standing as Independents. So if you want to join the parish council, put your name forward as an independent.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    Why?

    I would have thought that Europe collapsing into protectionism and recriminations would be a disaster for the British, the French and most of the people of Europe.

    From my perspective, I wouldn't want Le Pen to win, but I am not a native Briton. The UK has already chosen the path of protectionism and recriminations, as exemplified by Chairman May's petulant outburst in Downing Street on Wednesday. Given that Brexit is looming, an arch Euro-federalist will not be helpful to the UK. I would have preferred Fillon, until the financial nepotism came to light.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    Got this which I assume is in the ball park.

    https://twitter.com/RobertConnell6/status/860833334787809284
    STV multimember will tend to give low numbers to those who are below the multimember constituency size.
    In what way has the SNP done badly ? They did not win every seat ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Freggles said:

    A question for those active in party politics.

    If I were to be part of a minor regional party, or any party for that matter, and become parish councillor under that banner, would this be a barrier to changing party later down the line?

    No. It's just a label on the ballot paper and, in larger councils triggers the rules that apply to political groups. I don't believe these apply to parish councils. Just like an MP, you can defect at any time!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    ab195 said:

    What order are the votes being counted in? Any chance of the exit polling pushing her odds out, only for them to come in after some early results again? Just curious whether there's money to be made in being quick on the trigger tomorrow, or whether I might as well just chuck even more on Macron for a 24 hour return.

    The exit polls are an actual sample from real ballot boxes, so they're pretty accurate.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    surbiton said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    Mike, not only 40% in France might vote for the fascist, 30% here in PB could do it.
    Yet Remainers here still think its a great idea to pool sovereignty with nations where 40% would vote for a fascist (France) and nearly 50% would vote for the far right (Austria). Great idea, what could possibly go wrong there ...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Nazi_Germany
    As a matter of interest, is Nazi Germany the only fascist country you recognise?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894

    surbiton said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    Mike, not only 40% in France might vote for the fascist, 30% here in PB could do it.
    Yet Remainers here still think its a great idea to pool sovereignty with nations where 40% would vote for a fascist (France) and nearly 50% would vote for the far right (Austria). Great idea, what could possibly go wrong there ...
    (Scarily, I'm happy to pool sovereignty with people in a country where almost a third would vote for Corbyn.)
  • rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Nazi_Germany
    Le Pen is a facist. No Wikipedia article about Nazi Germany will change that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    surbiton said:

    rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    Got this which I assume is in the ball park.

    https://twitter.com/RobertConnell6/status/860833334787809284
    STV multimember will tend to give low numbers to those who are below the multimember constituency size.
    In what way has the SNP done badly ? They did not win every seat ?
    Under the multi-member FPTnP used for English unitary council elections, it would have been an SNP landslide. Thank the Scottish LibDems for their fairer and more sensible voting system!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Freggles said:

    A question for those active in party politics.

    If I were to be part of a minor regional party, or any party for that matter, and become parish councillor under that banner, would this be a barrier to changing party later down the line?

    Don't defections happen quite regularly in parish councils, to the point that they're not really news (same as most things for parish councils to be fair).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,366
    Freggles said:

    A question for those active in party politics.

    If I were to be part of a minor regional party, or any party for that matter, and become parish councillor under that banner, would this be a barrier to changing party later down the line?

    If the minor party was the BNP then I believe UKIP would refuse membership.
    Tho' how fastidious they are nowadays is anyone's guess.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    IanB2 said:

    Ladbrokes may be taking their money but it's not moving the odds, lol.

    To take cash on Le Pen at 6-1 is simply amazing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    surbiton said:

    rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    Got this which I assume is in the ball park.

    https://twitter.com/RobertConnell6/status/860833334787809284
    STV multimember will tend to give low numbers to those who are below the multimember constituency size.
    In what way has the SNP done badly ? They did not win every seat ?
    Their share of first preferences - relative to 2015 (GE) and 2016 (Holyrood) - has come down meaningfully. They are still number one by a large margin, but they are no longer achieving half the vote.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ladbrokes may be taking their money but it's not moving the odds, lol.

    To take cash on Le Pen at 6-1 is simply amazing.
    The same odds as Russian Roulette, as someone tweeted just now
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,527
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is Le Pen mightier than les polls?

    Boom boom.

    Here's how Le Pen might be doing better than she appears. According to the polls, about 40% of Melenchon and Fillon voters say they'll abstain in the second round. Which would mean that second round turnout should be sharply lower than in the first round.

    Except turnout in the second round of the French election is *always* higher than in the first. Are these voters shy Le Pen voters?

    Or will they just stay home?

    Or are they genuinely undecided, and might they break late for Macron as the status quo is (currently) the less scary option?
    As long as she gets 35-45% then my Betfair account will be happy :)

    But it doesn't help that, for a lot of voters, neither candidate enthuses them. Logic and history suggests that Le Pen wouldn't be particularly transfer-friendly in the second round, but how many will just say 'sod it' with the pencil in their hand and their eyes on the paper? I guess we'll know in about 27 hours.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ladbrokes may be taking their money but it's not moving the odds, lol.

    To take cash on Le Pen at 6-1 is simply amazing.
    The same odds as Russian Roulette, as someone tweeted just now
    I'll take my chances driving to work next week.
  • https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/860817868648329217

    Anyone want to take a guess what Joe's "51%" tease is about with reference to tomorrow's ST poll?
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,774
    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    Only if you think the collapse of the EU and constant antagonism in Europe would be a good thing. Regardless of where it would leave us in negotiations the economic chaos would send us straight into recession. It would be another 2008.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/860817868648329217

    Anyone want to take a guess what Joe's "51%" tease is about with reference to tomorrow's ST poll?

    Tory vote share. What else could it possibly be ?
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
    Well, that's Nazism, a form of fascism, but not the only one. People assume by calling her a fascist that it is equating her to Hitler, and therefore saying the claims are ridiculous because she's clearly not a Nazi. But I think a more solid case can be made that she aims to replicate the cultural fascism approach of 1920s Mussolini Italy.

    Of course, history never repeats itself 100% the same, so it's stupid to suggest that because she doesn't tick every single fascism-of-the-1920s box, she isn't a fascist. Leninism, Maoism, Stalinism all have significant differences with one another and from classical Marxism of the 1800s but we wouldn't say they don't represent forms of Communism.

    FWIW I think the case for calling Le Pen herself a fascist is not entirely clear cut, but her party certainly is. The detoxification is skin deep.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,993
    rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    Mike, not only 40% in France might vote for the fascist, 30% here in PB could do it.
    Yet Remainers here still think its a great idea to pool sovereignty with nations where 40% would vote for a fascist (France) and nearly 50% would vote for the far right (Austria). Great idea, what could possibly go wrong there ...
    (Scarily, I'm happy to pool sovereignty with people in a country where almost a third would vote for Corbyn.)
    It's already pooled. Big difference.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    IanB2 said:

    Ladbrokes may be taking their money but it's not moving the odds, lol.

    That doesn't make sense and suggests either the story is wrong or Ladbrokes are a bunch of idiots who aren't trying to make make money. All bookies throughout the multiverse adjust odds to reflect the money that has been staked, if they didn't then they would be gambling themselves and would sooner or later go bust.

    I used to know an on course bookmaker, drove a Bentley lived in a massive house in the country, children at good private schools, who knew feck all about horses and form and cared less. He made his very substantial income from a knowledge of numbers and by being able to do the sums very fast and very accurately.

    That on this, a supposed betting site, there are still people who think that bookmakers' odds actually imply anything more than, at best, a second order of the probability of an event actually occurring never ceases to amaze me.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    MJW said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    Only if you think the collapse of the EU and constant antagonism in Europe would be a good thing. Regardless of where it would leave us in negotiations the economic chaos would send us straight into recession. It would be another 2008.
    Indeed. The ill will that many Brexiters seem to wish the EU defies all logic. Brexit itself will turn out better if the economies of our nearest neighbours are thriving.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    Mike, not only 40% in France might vote for the fascist, 30% here in PB could do it.
    Yet Remainers here still think its a great idea to pool sovereignty with nations where 40% would vote for a fascist (France) and nearly 50% would vote for the far right (Austria). Great idea, what could possibly go wrong there ...
    (Scarily, I'm happy to pool sovereignty with people in a country where almost a third would vote for Corbyn.)
    Touché
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,527
    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ladbrokes may be taking their money but it's not moving the odds, lol.

    To take cash on Le Pen at 6-1 is simply amazing.
    @Shadsy's Christmas bonus fund will be looking rather well endowed by Monday morning...
  • rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
    Well, that's Nazism, a form of fascism, but not the only one. People assume by calling her a fascist that it is equating her to Hitler, and therefore saying the claims are ridiculous because she's clearly not a Nazi. But I think a more solid case can be made that she aims to replicate the cultural fascism approach of 1920s Mussolini Italy.

    Of course, history never repeats itself 100% the same, so it's stupid to suggest that because she doesn't tick every single fascism-of-the-1920s box, she isn't a fascist. Leninism, Maoism, Stalinism all have significant differences with one another and from classical Marxism of the 1800s but we wouldn't say they don't represent forms of Communism.

    FWIW I think the case for calling Le Pen herself a fascist is not entirely clear cut, but her party certainly is. The detoxification is skin deep.
    She is an authoritarian nationalist.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    MJW said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    Only if you think the collapse of the EU and constant antagonism in Europe would be a good thing. Regardless of where it would leave us in negotiations the economic chaos would send us straight into recession. It would be another 2008.
    I did not imply it was a good thing overall, but made a comment about the British perspective, as Britain has already chosen the path of economic recession and antagonism in Europe by voting Leave last June.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    Got this which I assume is in the ball park.

    https://twitter.com/RobertConnell6/status/860833334787809284
    STV multimember will tend to give low numbers to those who are below the multimember constituency size.
    In what way has the SNP done badly ? They did not win every seat ?
    Their share of first preferences - relative to 2015 (GE) and 2016 (Holyrood) - has come down meaningfully. They are still number one by a large margin, but they are no longer achieving half the vote.
    But the second placed and third placed have changed positions. In fact, 43:23:21 would be handy for the SNP with FPTP.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    edited May 2017

    IanB2 said:

    Ladbrokes may be taking their money but it's not moving the odds, lol.

    That doesn't make sense and suggests either the story is wrong or Ladbrokes are a bunch of idiots who aren't trying to make make money. All bookies throughout the multiverse adjust odds to reflect the money that has been staked, if they didn't then they would be gambling themselves and would sooner or later go bust.

    I used to know an on course bookmaker, drove a Bentley lived in a massive house in the country, children at good private schools, who knew feck all about horses and form and cared less. He made his very substantial income from a knowledge of numbers and by being able to do the sums very fast and very accurately.

    That on this, a supposed betting site, there are still people who think that bookmakers' odds actually imply anything more than, at best, a second order of the probability of an event actually occurring never ceases to amaze me.
    My guess is that lots of small bets are being placed on Le Pen and fewer larger ones on Macron. With Brexit and Trump, the small players won out, but third time around the big guys will surely recover their losses.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/860817868648329217

    Anyone want to take a guess what Joe's "51%" tease is about with reference to tomorrow's ST poll?

    Tory vote share. What else could it possibly be ?
    Proportion of the electorate who think Remain was right (in which case we get a thread header)
    Proportion of the electorate who think Leave was right (no thread header)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,384

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Nazi_Germany
    Le Pen is a facist. No Wikipedia article about Nazi Germany will change that.
    You keep saying that! But my question is by what meaningful criteria is she a Fascist?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,527
    IanB2 said:

    Freggles said:

    A question for those active in party politics.

    If I were to be part of a minor regional party, or any party for that matter, and become parish councillor under that banner, would this be a barrier to changing party later down the line?

    No. It's just a label on the ballot paper and, in larger councils triggers the rules that apply to political groups. I don't believe these apply to parish councils. Just like an MP, you can defect at any time!
    I think MEPs are (were) the only people in Britain elected via a party rather than as individuals.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    IanB2 said:
    Hide Corbyn away in a cupboard and bring out Mr Hammer and Sickle. What could go wrong?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    Freggles said:

    A question for those active in party politics.

    If I were to be part of a minor regional party, or any party for that matter, and become parish councillor under that banner, would this be a barrier to changing party later down the line?

    Don't defections happen quite regularly in parish councils, to the point that they're not really news (same as most things for parish councils to be fair).
    No, as it happens. Since parish councils don't have political groups, as such, the concept of defection doesn't really apply.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,727
    Pulpstar said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/860817868648329217

    Anyone want to take a guess what Joe's "51%" tease is about with reference to tomorrow's ST poll?

    Tory vote share. What else could it possibly be ?
    Labour vote share?
  • rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Nazi_Germany
    Le Pen is a facist. No Wikipedia article about Nazi Germany will change that.
    You keep saying that! But my question is by what meaningful criteria is she a Fascist?
    As I said before she is an authoritarian nationalist.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924
    Le Pen is 10/1, Macron is 1/10 (approximately).

    In a two horse race which is the gambler who doesn't know the form going to pick.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    Why?

    I would have thought that Europe collapsing into protectionism and recriminations would be a disaster for the British, the French and most of the people of Europe.

    I think a narrow case could be made in relation to Brexit negotiations, that Le Pen, looking to achieve similar goals to us, presents at least additional leverage to TMay - she could basically side up with Merkel ("France has abandoned you but we can still be partners") as a sort of Mainstream front, or she could negotiate in tandem with Le Pen. Le Pen has greatly watered down her Frexit plans so I think even if she were to be elected we would not see the fall of the EU.

    Still, Macron isn't a bad choice either, he will be firm but not vindictive.

    In every other way, for us and for France, Macron would be better.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,439
    edited May 2017
    Seems odd that punters are going for Le Pen when it seems like a clear cut win for Macron.

    Are we expecting a glut on #UKElection2017 polls tonight? :smiley:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    IanB2 said:
    Hide Corbyn away in a cupboard and bring out Mr Hammer and Sickle. What could go wrong?
    I suppose Mr McD does at least dress well, and looks like a credible politician up to the point where he actually says something?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    Got this which I assume is in the ball park.

    https://twitter.com/RobertConnell6/status/860833334787809284
    That is pretty good for SLAB - barely 1% behind the Tories and 14% adrift of the SNP.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    The SLAB vote is more concentrated. 3 seats could be on.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,527

    Le Pen is 10/1, Macron is 1/10 (approximately).

    In a two horse race which is the gambler who doesn't know the form going to pick.

    Find a bookie who will lay the 10/1 horse each way?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/860817868648329217

    Anyone want to take a guess what Joe's "51%" tease is about with reference to tomorrow's ST poll?

    Tory vote share. What else could it possibly be ?
    Labour vote share?
    Don't be silly, it's the LibDem surge.
  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    IanB2 said:

    Freggles said:

    A question for those active in party politics.

    If I were to be part of a minor regional party, or any party for that matter, and become parish councillor under that banner, would this be a barrier to changing party later down the line?

    Don't defections happen quite regularly in parish councils, to the point that they're not really news (same as most things for parish councils to be fair).
    No, as it happens. Since parish councils don't have political groups, as such, the concept of defection doesn't really apply.
    I find that a slightly odd point. People can and do stand for election to parish councils under party political labels, even though once on the council they don't act as political group.

    I thought the question was about being told he wouldn't get on the parish council unless he stood for a particular party, and he was thinking that later on he might want to belong to a different party, and would he be able to change. to which the answer is yes. But better not to join a party you don't necessarily agree with in the first place. the country is littered with councillors who only joined the Tories because they thought that was the only way to get elected. And that is NOT a joke, or made-up. There are several of them on my local unitary authority, self-confessed.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761

    IanB2 said:
    Hide Corbyn away in a cupboard and bring out Mr Hammer and Sickle. What could go wrong?
    Only one leader is in hiding


    She is mumbling strong and stable to herself and praying the fraud squad dont smoke her out
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    Le Pen is 10/1, Macron is 1/10 (approximately).

    In a two horse race which is the gambler who doesn't know the form going to pick.

    6/1 and 1/10. The bookies have to make a living somehow.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,727
    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    What was the final votes distribution in Scotland ? Not projections, actuals.

    Got this which I assume is in the ball park.

    https://twitter.com/RobertConnell6/status/860833334787809284
    That is pretty good for SLAB - barely 1% behind the Tories and 14% adrift of the SNP.
    Somewhat better than expected. That's good for Unionists, as it means that left wing Unionists have a party which they can vote for.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    90% of the bets by volume, yet Macron remains 1.09. If the market isn't moving the amount of money on each side is roughly equal, so all the big money must be on the other side to balance it.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:
    Hide Corbyn away in a cupboard and bring out Mr Hammer and Sickle. What could go wrong?
    I suppose Mr McD does at least dress well, and looks like a credible politician up to the point where he actually says something?
    I wonder if this means that after the GE , Corbyn gives up and McDonnell becomes the left candidate.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    It does look rather silly.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    IanB2 said:

    Le Pen is 10/1, Macron is 1/10 (approximately).

    In a two horse race which is the gambler who doesn't know the form going to pick.

    6/1 and 1/10. The bookies have to make a living somehow.
    Bwin'll give you 1/9 on Macron. Take it.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    Why?

    I would have thought that Europe collapsing into protectionism and recriminations would be a disaster for the British, the French and most of the people of Europe.

    I think a narrow case could be made in relation to Brexit negotiations, that Le Pen, looking to achieve similar goals to us, presents at least additional leverage to TMay - she could basically side up with Merkel ("France has abandoned you but we can still be partners") as a sort of Mainstream front, or she could negotiate in tandem with Le Pen. Le Pen has greatly watered down her Frexit plans so I think even if she were to be elected we would not see the fall of the EU.

    Still, Macron isn't a bad choice either, he will be firm but not vindictive.

    In every other way, for us and for France, Macron would be better.
    Whatever happens with the French government it will not be good news for the UK, never has been and never will be.

    "We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France." (Wellington)
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    In NO circumstances is having a fascist leading our closest neighbour a good thing.
    In what way is she a Fascist?

    Fascists don't believe in women running political parties and/or countries.
    Is there a big book of fascist views that I can look up, so I know exactly whether someone is a fascist or not?
    Mein Kampf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Nazi_Germany
    As a matter of interest, is Nazi Germany the only fascist country you recognise?
    Italy, some of the Eastern European countries in the 40s, a fair few of the South American dictatorships come to mind as worthy of scrutiny against the criteria.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,727
    IanB2 said:

    Le Pen is 10/1, Macron is 1/10 (approximately).

    In a two horse race which is the gambler who doesn't know the form going to pick.

    6/1 and 1/10. The bookies have to make a living somehow.
    At no point have I ever found Le Pen's odds to be attractive.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    surbiton said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:
    Hide Corbyn away in a cupboard and bring out Mr Hammer and Sickle. What could go wrong?
    I suppose Mr McD does at least dress well, and looks like a credible politician up to the point where he actually says something?
    I wonder if this means that after the GE , Corbyn gives up and McDonnell becomes the left candidate.
    Hope not I wouldnt vote for him.

    Will there be a left candidate?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    surbiton said:

    The SLAB vote is more concentrated. 3 seats could be on.

    It amounts to a 6% swing from SNP to Lab compared with 2015.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:
    Hide Corbyn away in a cupboard and bring out Mr Hammer and Sickle. What could go wrong?
    I suppose Mr McD does at least dress well, and looks like a credible politician up to the point where he actually says something?
    I wonder if this means that after the GE , Corbyn gives up and McDonnell becomes the left candidate.
    Hope not I wouldnt vote for him.

    Will there be a left candidate?
    Well, the 15% bar will mean fewer proposers needed.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,774
    daodao said:

    MJW said:

    daodao said:

    Macron would be far worse from a British perspective than the Breton, but I expect him to win.

    Only if you think the collapse of the EU and constant antagonism in Europe would be a good thing. Regardless of where it would leave us in negotiations the economic chaos would send us straight into recession. It would be another 2008.
    I did not imply it was a good thing overall, but made a comment about the British perspective, as Britain has already chosen the path of economic recession and antagonism in Europe by voting Leave last June.
    I worry Brexit will be very, very bad for as and am still a remainer, but even then I'll acknowledge there are ways it might not be as bad as I fear. One likely outcome if negotiations go badly is a fairly crap deal that keeps us and Europe ticking over is cobbled together, kicking the can down the road and we see a slow stagnation. I hope we'll be ok, I fear we may not be. France leaving and having a borderline fascist government would be an event of a different order of magnitude that would result in guaranteed chaos and economic disaster. There'd be another banking and eurozone crisis. Comparisons to the 1930s have, happily so far been overblown. If Le Pen wins they wouldn't be.

    You're right though. It was always one of the flaws of Brexit that its success relied on others not behaving in the same way - America has done, and is likely as a result to offer us a far worse trade deal than the one that was on the table with the EU. If France does the same why do people think we'd be in a better place?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    edited May 2017
    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    The SLAB vote is more concentrated. 3 seats could be on.

    It amounts to a 6% swing from SNP to Lab compared with 2015.
    East Lothian Scottish Labour might be a bet, but not for me personally
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/860817868648329217

    Anyone want to take a guess what Joe's "51%" tease is about with reference to tomorrow's ST poll?

    Tory vote share. What else could it possibly be ?
    Labour vote share?
    Ho ho
This discussion has been closed.