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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why we are all going to be able to get to bed earlier this ele

SystemSystem Posts: 11,723
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why we are all going to be able to get to bed earlier this election night

One of the features of the June 8th General Election it is that no other elections are being held on the same day. This is in sharp comparison to all the general elections since 1992 when John Major went to the country in April four weeks before that year’s locals.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,853
    First!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    Second, like the Scottish Tories :D
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,853
    Cumulative declarations by 2am:

    1983: 434
    1992: 464
    1997: 211
    2001: 248
    2005: 166
    2010: 62
    2015: 17
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Morning all.

    An early result will do me fine, although I may have over ordered on the popcorn. Huzzah.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,575
    edited April 2017
    Fifth. Like UKIP?

    I suspect the pressure on local Gvt to save a bit of money by employing fewer staff is part of the story here.

    The way things are going, a sweepstake on the time of the first Labour hold might be in order....
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024
    Sixth, like Arsenal?
    I've never understood how some places take six or seven hours to count the ballots, except for the most remote places in Cumbria and Scotland. If last week's experience in France is anything to go by, it's perfectly possible to do it within three.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    A PB baby boom come March 2018 !! .... :smiley:
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    JackW said:

    A PB baby boom come March 2018 !! .... :smiley:

    Dimbleby is going to have me quivering after a few seconds... :o
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    Rory Bremner last night in the voice of Jeremy Clarkson: " we have a Prime Minister called May and a Chancellor called Hammond. What could possibly go wrong?"

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    DavidL said:

    Rory Bremner last night in the voice of Jeremy Clarkson: " we have a Prime Minister called May and a Chancellor called Hammond. What could possibly go wrong?"

    Any Tory PPCs called Clarkson? :D
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    I agree with that but 2015 did show that you could have too much of a good thing. I would be amazed if we get back to 1992 pace but there should be an improvement.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    We seem to have had a really boring polling day yesterday with only 1 poll reporting showing a Tory lead of 22% which really doesn't excite any more. Any chance of an improvement today?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    A PB baby boom come March 2018 !! .... :smiley:

    Dimbleby is going to have me quivering after a few seconds... :o
    Overnight PB certainly hasn't been short of gay sex chat ....
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    DavidL said:

    We seem to have had a really boring polling day yesterday with only 1 poll reporting showing a Tory lead of 22% which really doesn't excite any more. Any chance of an improvement today?

    There was mention FPT of an Ipsos MORI poll to be released midday (though that's not been officially confirmed according to TSE)
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,125
    I remember waiting for the Winchester result in 1997 and, because I wasn’t anywhere near a reliable source of news, wondering why nothing seemed to be happening.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024
    DavidL said:

    We seem to have had a really boring polling day yesterday with only 1 poll reporting showing a Tory lead of 22% which really doesn't excite any more. Any chance of an improvement today?

    So a day with only one poll still manages to produce over 2000 comments. It's now officially imposssible to read all the PB comments and have a day job!

    Good to see 22% leads continuing though, looking good for the buy Con seats spread, especially with the Lab-held marginals polling.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207
    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024

    Morning all.

    An early result will do me fine, although I may have over ordered on the popcorn. Huzzah.

    Can't have too much popcorn. What if you run out before Ed Miliband, or Yvette Cooper, or Angus Robertson?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207
    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?
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    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?
    Not facing a shellacking at the polls for one.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024
    edited April 2017

    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?

    That's a huge number for any organisation. They have what, a dozen heads of department, maybe a dozen deputies. Who are the other 74 people?

    Anyone paid six figures from taxpayer money should have their title and salary published. No exceptions.
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    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?

    I am sure they are worth every penny.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?

    The single thread in Labour's collapse is Len McCluskey. He got EdM over the line in 2010. It was Unite that caused the Falkirk mess that led to the leadership election rules being changed and it's Len that has kept Corbyn's head above water. Funnily enough, Len has done very well indeed out of the last seven years.

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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,562
    I always think it's best to catch a few hours' sleep between the exit poll and 2-3 am. Watching all the commentators desperately try to fill up time in the early hours is just annoying. However, clearly that may not be the thing to do this year.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,853
    George Monbiot looking on the bright side:

    I would love to elect a government led by someone both competent and humane, but this option will not be on the ballot paper.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/25/vote-labour-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207

    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?

    The single thread in Labour's collapse is Len McCluskey. He got EdM over the line in 2010. It was Unite that caused the Falkirk mess that led to the leadership election rules being changed and it's Len that has kept Corbyn's head above water. Funnily enough, Len has done very well indeed out of the last seven years.
    A very good point. I think the Falkirk mess was a pivotal point in Labour's misfortunes.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,575
    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    I agree. I used to help count LibDem internal elections, multi-candidate elections by STV. It used to be interesting, since I knew many of the people involved, seeing votes transfer stage-by-stage over several hours as each person was elected or eliminated. Then someone wrote a computer program to do the count, and the job turned into hours of boring computer input followed by ten seconds when someone pressed the button, then the whole result came out at once. The electronic count utterly destroyed the experience.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Fishing said:

    I always think it's best to catch a few hours' sleep between the exit poll and 2-3 am. Watching all the commentators desperately try to fill up time in the early hours is just annoying. However, clearly that may not be the thing to do this year.

    Take a nap and chance missing Jeremy Vine dressed up as a cowboy or some such? Slacker :lol:
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    I remember waiting for the Winchester result in 1997 and, because I wasn’t anywhere near a reliable source of news, wondering why nothing seemed to be happening.

    Many recounts then a win by 2 votes.
    Some guy who had just moved into the constituency was prosecuted for using a previous occupants polling card.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207
    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    Oh God, please don't get me onto bashing electronic voting again ...
    TLDR;
    We should *never* have it, at least with current tech.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I remember waiting for the Winchester result in 1997 and, because I wasn’t anywhere near a reliable source of news, wondering why nothing seemed to be happening.

    And when Mark Oaten won the sh*t hit the fan ....
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Fishing said:

    I always think it's best to catch a few hours' sleep between the exit poll and 2-3 am. Watching all the commentators desperately try to fill up time in the early hours is just annoying. However, clearly that may not be the thing to do this year.

    Taking advantage of the betting shifts based on exit polls and early results has proven quite lucrative use of those hours in recent years.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,853

    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?

    The single thread in Labour's collapse is Len McCluskey. He got EdM over the line in 2010. It was Unite that caused the Falkirk mess that led to the leadership election rules being changed and it's Len that has kept Corbyn's head above water. Funnily enough, Len has done very well indeed out of the last seven years.
    A very good point. I think the Falkirk mess was a pivotal point in Labour's misfortunes.
    And yet at the time the dimmer posters on here kept telling us that there was nothing to see as 'it hadn't affected the polls in England'.......
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    They use pre-printed party list sheets which are much easier to sort - you don't even have to mark them, just put the list you want into the box.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,125

    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?

    The single thread in Labour's collapse is Len McCluskey. He got EdM over the line in 2010. It was Unite that caused the Falkirk mess that led to the leadership election rules being changed and it's Len that has kept Corbyn's head above water. Funnily enough, Len has done very well indeed out of the last seven years.
    A very good point. I think the Falkirk mess was a pivotal point in Labour's misfortunes.
    And yet at the time the dimmer posters on here kept telling us that there was nothing to see as 'it hadn't affected the polls in England'.......
    It was one of those events, wasn’t it, where something apparently of little account has momentous consequences.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024

    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    Oh God, please don't get me onto bashing electronic voting again ...
    TLDR;
    We should *never* have it, at least with current tech.
    +100. Funny how all the technical people are pretty much united in the opinion that electronic voting is a really bad idea!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211
    Sandpit said:

    Sixth, like Arsenal?
    I've never understood how some places take six or seven hours to count the ballots, except for the most remote places in Cumbria and Scotland. If last week's experience in France is anything to go by, it's perfectly possible to do it within three.

    Orkney and Shetland actually counts pretty quickly: they usually have a result by 230 or 3
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    Oh God, please don't get me onto bashing electronic voting again ...
    TLDR;
    We should *never* have it, at least with current tech.
    +100. Funny how all the technical people are pretty much united in the opinion that electronic voting is a really bad idea!
    People in this country have had enough of experts ... :)
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,486
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    Rory Bremner last night in the voice of Jeremy Clarkson: " we have a Prime Minister called May and a Chancellor called Hammond. What could possibly go wrong?"

    Any Tory PPCs called Clarkson? :D
    Last time a mate of mine with that surname took on Wallasey. He might well be back.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sixth, like Arsenal?
    I've never understood how some places take six or seven hours to count the ballots, except for the most remote places in Cumbria and Scotland. If last week's experience in France is anything to go by, it's perfectly possible to do it within three.

    Orkney and Shetland actually counts pretty quickly: they usually have a result by 230 or 3
    Good point about O&S. Do they use helicopters, or count at the polling station and phone the results in?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    Rory Bremner last night in the voice of Jeremy Clarkson: " we have a Prime Minister called May and a Chancellor called Hammond. What could possibly go wrong?"

    Any Tory PPCs called Clarkson? :D
    No but there are plenty of Jeremys around. Jeremy Hunt springs to mind. But the third one should really be an ex-boarding school boy infamous for his antediluvian views, his multiple sexual escapades, his casual racism and schoolboyish enthusiasm coupled with naivety and incompetence, who brings chaos wherever he goes...

    And that could only be Jeremy Corbyn.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    felix said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    They use pre-printed party list sheets which are much easier to sort - you don't even have to mark them, just put the list you want into the box.

    Intetesting - cheers. Have you ever voted there? You can in local elections, can't you?

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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Morning all.

    One of the implications of this is that it may be worth betting on Sunderland to beat their record - I assume that they are going to try again.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207

    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?

    The single thread in Labour's collapse is Len McCluskey. He got EdM over the line in 2010. It was Unite that caused the Falkirk mess that led to the leadership election rules being changed and it's Len that has kept Corbyn's head above water. Funnily enough, Len has done very well indeed out of the last seven years.
    A very good point. I think the Falkirk mess was a pivotal point in Labour's misfortunes.
    And yet at the time the dimmer posters on here kept telling us that there was nothing to see as 'it hadn't affected the polls in England'.......
    I believe I was saying the scandal was important whilst it was unfolding. It was horrible optics at a time when Scottish voters were faced with a reasonable alternative in the form of the SNP. Why vote for the venal and corrupt Labour party when you could vote for the SNP? ;)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    Oh God, please don't get me onto bashing electronic voting again ...
    TLDR;
    We should *never* have it, at least with current tech.
    +100. Funny how all the technical people are pretty much united in the opinion that electronic voting is a really bad idea!
    People in this country have had enough of experts ... :)
    Or have spent enough time in the QA department to know that even the best software is still full of bugs, no matter what the 'experts' say!
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,808

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    The standard map is so deceptive.

    I had no idea its land area was more than twice that of the UK.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024

    Morning all.

    One of the implications of this is that it may be worth betting on Sunderland to beat their record - I assume that they are going to try again.

    Did we ever verify the story from the other day that they don't actually count the Lab vote in Sunderland, rather they count all the other parties' votes and subtract from the total number of ballot papers?

    One assumes that if the result is somewhat closer than usual, that method (if used) would be open to challenge by a candidate and replaced by a 'proper' count of the votes.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,808

    Fishing said:

    I always think it's best to catch a few hours' sleep between the exit poll and 2-3 am. Watching all the commentators desperately try to fill up time in the early hours is just annoying. However, clearly that may not be the thing to do this year.

    Take a nap and chance missing Jeremy Vine dressed up as a cowboy or some such? Slacker :lol:
    You al'right, Cleggy booyy??
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291

    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?
    Act in haste, repent at leisure.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    The standard map is so deceptive.

    I had no idea its land area was more than twice that of the UK.
    Is that an argument for or against grammar schools?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    Oh God, please don't get me onto bashing electronic voting again ...
    TLDR;
    We should *never* have it, at least with current tech.
    +100. Funny how all the technical people are pretty much united in the opinion that electronic voting is a really bad idea!
    People in this country have had enough of experts ... :)
    Or have spent enough time in the QA department to know that even the best software is still full of bugs, no matter what the 'experts' say!
    Going slightly off-topic: someone I know claimed his software was bug-free and to specification. It was a multithreaded Operating System for embedded systems, and he'd written most of it himself (*not* based on Linux).

    I worked with it for four years, and never found a single bug or non-compliance with the spec. The OS didn't actually do much, but what it did, it did brilliantly.

    We once thought we'd found a bug, but it turned out to be a problem with the processor. We also found a few issues with the compiler. But the actual OS code? Not a thing.

    An amazing achievement by a brilliant guy. Especially as it was written in C.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,125
    I remember reading about how Sunderland did it .... posted something about the other day. Torbay used to be up there with Sunderland until a new Returning Officer said it wasn’t worth it. Short sighted in a way, because we used to be treated to a graphic of Torquay in the summer. Quite encouraged one to go there!

    People DO go to Sunderland on holiday, incidentally, or certainly did 50 years ago.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    Oh God, please don't get me onto bashing electronic voting again ...
    TLDR;
    We should *never* have it, at least with current tech.
    +100. Funny how all the technical people are pretty much united in the opinion that electronic voting is a really bad idea!
    People in this country have had enough of experts ... :)
    Or have spent enough time in the QA department to know that even the best software is still full of bugs, no matter what the 'experts' say!
    Going slightly off-topic: someone I know claimed his software was bug-free and to specification. It was a multithreaded Operating System for embedded systems, and he'd written most of it himself (*not* based on Linux).

    I worked with it for four years, and never found a single bug or non-compliance with the spec. The OS didn't actually do much, but what it did, it did brilliantly.

    We once thought we'd found a bug, but it turned out to be a problem with the processor. We also found a few issues with the compiler. But the actual OS code? Not a thing.

    An amazing achievement by a brilliant guy. Especially as it was written in C.
    That's very impressive. I worked with a guy like that once, former employee of a donut shaped building in Cheltenham. Still managed to give him a couple of bugs to fix though.

    There is of course audited software code in critical systems such as aviation, nuclear power etc. which is pretty much bug free but costs millions and takes years to spec, write and audit - and even then, there's still the occasional unexpected behaviour that they find in production.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    The standard map is so deceptive.

    I had no idea its land area was more than twice that of the UK.

    It's very big and in many places very empty. A lot of it is also at least 2,000 feet above sea level.

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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,958
    edited April 2017
    Huzzah. Another implication of the election is the dropping of the quarterly reporting legislation from the Finance Bill, delaying implementation for another year. Good news for small businesses.

    Now, if only someone could lobby to exempt micro businesses from this foolishness in perpetuity....
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    That's a good question. Leaving aside other procedural differences (as someone pointed out below), I'd guess security is an issue. The counts in the UK are fairly heavily 'policed' by representatives from the relevant parties. I doubt it'd be possible for that to happen if there were several orders of magnitude more counts.

    I like the physical process use at the moment. It generally works well (leaving aside minor issues such as PV), and we don't really *need* a result in a few hours. Better to get a safe and reliable result than a quick and potentially dirty one.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Contaminated blood used by NHS - Burnham wants inquiry.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39713396
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Spain is a much bigger country than the UK and has many more far-flung, remote corners. It usually gets its count done and dusted in the early hours. Maybe it's because they do the count at the polling stations rather than in central locations. Why don't we do that?

    I am not looking forward to the day when we have electronic voting and the result is known instantly at 22:01.
    Oh God, please don't get me onto bashing electronic voting again ...
    TLDR;
    We should *never* have it, at least with current tech.
    +100. Funny how all the technical people are pretty much united in the opinion that electronic voting is a really bad idea!
    People in this country have had enough of experts ... :)
    Or have spent enough time in the QA department to know that even the best software is still full of bugs, no matter what the 'experts' say!
    Going slightly off-topic: someone I know claimed his software was bug-free and to specification. It was a multithreaded Operating System for embedded systems, and he'd written most of it himself (*not* based on Linux).

    I worked with it for four years, and never found a single bug or non-compliance with the spec. The OS didn't actually do much, but what it did, it did brilliantly.

    We once thought we'd found a bug, but it turned out to be a problem with the processor. We also found a few issues with the compiler. But the actual OS code? Not a thing.

    An amazing achievement by a brilliant guy. Especially as it was written in C.
    That's very impressive. I worked with a guy like that once, former employee of a donut shaped building in Cheltenham. Still managed to give him a couple of bugs to fix though.

    There is of course audited software code in critical systems such as aviation, nuclear power etc. which is pretty much bug free but costs millions and takes years to spec, write and audit - and even then, there's still the occasional unexpected behaviour that they find in production.
    The software I'm talking about was essentially KISS: Keep It Simple, Stupid. It did very little: only what it was actually required to do. He could have put loads of sexy extras in, but he did not, and resisted calls to do so.

    It occurs to me that some laws might be better off the same way. ;)

    Since the company were also developing processors, a stable and reliable OS was a boon. If something went wrong, it was probably the processor.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    2015 seems to be particularly slow even compared to other years with local elections simultaneously. I agree that we overloaded elections on that day, needlessly.

    For all that we moan about having too many votes recently (well not us nerds, but the man on the street), France goes to the polls 4 times in a 2 month window in election years, and nearly always has turnout of ~80% anyway. It's not like their system or politicians are a model of democracy compared to ours, so we can't blame our low turnout on that.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited April 2017

    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?

    It's very strange how the bbc never manage to actually cut the numbers of staff when each time they have a review that is always in the plan. Then they moan they have no money for anything.

    You would think the managers would be moved on for failing to achieve the aims but instead they just end up with more of them.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190

    I remember reading about how Sunderland did it .... posted something about the other day. Torbay used to be up there with Sunderland until a new Returning Officer said it wasn’t worth it. Short sighted in a way, because we used to be treated to a graphic of Torquay in the summer. Quite encouraged one to go there!

    People DO go to Sunderland on holiday, incidentally, or certainly did 50 years ago.

    Maybe from Consett, back in the day.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542
    edited April 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    Contaminated blood used by NHS - Burnham wants inquiry.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39713396

    Well - he should know about coverups of criminal activity in the NHS. Good to see he's been converted.

    I'm wondering if the Labour candidate this time is going to have a brain fade along the lines of Janos Toth and campaign on Labour's record on the NHS in Mid-Staffordshire again.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190

    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?

    It's very strange how the bbc never manage to actually cut the numbers of staff when each time they have a review that is always in the plan. Then they moan they have no money for anything.

    You would think the managers would be moved on for failing to achieve the aims but instead they just end up with more of them.
    Maybe they could have 90% of their salaries from overseas Top Gear sales?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024
    edited April 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    Contaminated blood used by NHS - Burnham wants inquiry.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39713396

    There should *always* be an enquiry after an incident like this. No-one 'calls for an enquiry' after a plane crash do they? It just bloody happens, with a dedicated team of impartial professionals producing a report designed to help others learn from mistakes.

    That said, Andy Burnham can bugger off. Naked political opportunism from the man who said that enquiries weren't necessary when children died on his watch.
  • Options

    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?

    It's very strange how the bbc never manage to actually cut the numbers of staff when each time they have a review that is always in the plan. Then they moan they have no money for anything.

    You would think the managers would be moved on for failing to achieve the aims but instead they just end up with more of them.
    The BBC is typical of any public sector organization.
    In the grip of producer interests.


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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    Mortimer said:

    Huzzah. Another implication of the election is the dropping of the quarterly reporting legislation from the Finance Bill, delaying implementation for another year. Good news for small businesses.

    Now, if only someone could lobby to exempt micro businesses from this foolishness in perpetuity....

    My fear of a Tory landslide is more of this kind of bollocks gets put into place (rather than less) and the problem with a big majority is nobody wants to put their head above the parapet to stop it as their chances of a job goes out the window.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    First for results = 'free' publicity on TV, press, radio etc. Am surprised Torbay haven't gone for it recently.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    Sandpit said:

    Morning all.

    One of the implications of this is that it may be worth betting on Sunderland to beat their record - I assume that they are going to try again.

    Did we ever verify the story from the other day that they don't actually count the Lab vote in Sunderland, rather they count all the other parties' votes and subtract from the total number of ballot papers?

    One assumes that if the result is somewhat closer than usual, that method (if used) would be open to challenge by a candidate and replaced by a 'proper' count of the votes.
    Surely if they did that Labour would be getting the benefit of any spoilt papers that should be eliminated? And surely we would have noticed if Sunderland had not had any spoilt papers in the last few elections?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,958
    Struggling with a post book fair cold this morning - but this does give me time to get the 2017 Mortimer's Regional Swing Automoton built...

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    edited April 2017
    Good morning, everyone.

    Agree entirely that the slow counting rate is most displeasing.

    From yesterday, I tipped Force India to double score in Russia at 3 (Ladbrokes). Not certain by any stretch, but they've achieved it at the previous three races.

    Does anyone know what the King of the Road market (again, Ladbrokes) is? I'd guess to lead most laps, but am not really sure.

    Edited extra bit: looking at the odds (Hamilton 3.75, everyone else double figures) it might be to get fastest lap, pole and the win.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sandpit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Contaminated blood used by NHS - Burnham wants inquiry.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39713396

    There should *always* be an enquiry after an incident like this. No-one 'calls for an enquiry' after a plane crash do they? It just bloody happens, with a dedicated team of impartial professionals producing a report designed to help others learn from mistakes.

    That said, Andy Burnham can bugger off. Naked political opportunism from the man who said that enquiries weren't necessary when children died on his watch.
    Mid-Staffs was before before Burnham, who set up the enquiry.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211
    Sandpit said:

    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?

    That's a huge number for any organisation. They have what, a dozen heads of department, maybe a dozen deputies. Who are the other 74 people?

    Anyone paid six figures from taxpayer money should have their title and salary published. No exceptions.
    There are 24,000 employees, and there will be qualified accountants and lawyers in that mix (where the alternative is paying more for an external firm).
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510

    I remember reading about how Sunderland did it .... posted something about the other day. Torbay used to be up there with Sunderland until a new Returning Officer said it wasn’t worth it. Short sighted in a way, because we used to be treated to a graphic of Torquay in the summer. Quite encouraged one to go there!

    People DO go to Sunderland on holiday, incidentally, or certainly did 50 years ago.

    We go to the Metro Centre for Christmas shopping if that counts.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024

    Sandpit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Contaminated blood used by NHS - Burnham wants inquiry.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39713396

    There should *always* be an enquiry after an incident like this. No-one 'calls for an enquiry' after a plane crash do they? It just bloody happens, with a dedicated team of impartial professionals producing a report designed to help others learn from mistakes.

    That said, Andy Burnham can bugger off. Naked political opportunism from the man who said that enquiries weren't necessary when children died on his watch.
    Mid-Staffs was before before Burnham, who set up the enquiry.
    Burnham set up the whitewash, with added whiteness, and allowed those who blew the whistle to be harassed out of their jobs and homes.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,785
    I'll be going to bed straight after the exit poll. Staying up would just be too painful.
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    That table is a statistical outrage.

    We have 1 or 2 hours blocks, then a 6 hour block.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Morning all.

    One of the implications of this is that it may be worth betting on Sunderland to beat their record - I assume that they are going to try again.

    Did we ever verify the story from the other day that they don't actually count the Lab vote in Sunderland, rather they count all the other parties' votes and subtract from the total number of ballot papers?

    One assumes that if the result is somewhat closer than usual, that method (if used) would be open to challenge by a candidate and replaced by a 'proper' count of the votes.
    Surely if they did that Labour would be getting the benefit of any spoilt papers that should be eliminated? And surely we would have noticed if Sunderland had not had any spoilt papers in the last few elections?
    Presumably the sorting process identifies the spoilt/disputed papers

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302

    That table is a statistical outrage.

    We have 1 or 2 hours blocks, then a 6 hour block.

    Lib dems and their dodgy stats eh. Surprised it wasn't a bar chart.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510

    Mortimer said:

    Huzzah. Another implication of the election is the dropping of the quarterly reporting legislation from the Finance Bill, delaying implementation for another year. Good news for small businesses.

    Now, if only someone could lobby to exempt micro businesses from this foolishness in perpetuity....

    My fear of a Tory landslide is more of this kind of bollocks gets put into place (rather than less) and the problem with a big majority is nobody wants to put their head above the parapet to stop it as their chances of a job goes out the window.
    Agreed. All kinds of Civil Service lunacy gets dragged out the cupboard when there is no real chance of any meaningful political scrutiny. We need more Ministers alert to how this will be received in the Commons. Unfortunately that is looking less and less likely.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?

    That's a huge number for any organisation. They have what, a dozen heads of department, maybe a dozen deputies. Who are the other 74 people?

    Anyone paid six figures from taxpayer money should have their title and salary published. No exceptions.
    There are 24,000 employees, and there will be qualified accountants and lawyers in that mix (where the alternative is paying more for an external firm).
    Yep they could "cut" numbers by outsouring everything. Wouldn't necessarily save money or numbers of highly paid people working on BBC matters
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    edited April 2017
    I'm beginning to feel very sorry for Labour canvassers when they try to explain their policy on Brexit to their Leave supporters.

    On Brexit, the Tories say. We accept the result of the referendum. We are trying to get the best economic deal we can with the EU.

    LDs say We don't accept the result of the referendum because we know better.

    Labour says We accept the result of the referendum. The EU holds all the cards but we must make the best of it. So we demand that the Tories achieve exactly what We want even when we know it's impossible. When they don't, we will ensure we stay in the EU.

    Even worse, is the sub-plot, WE know this is nonsense but we think you are stupid Neanderthals and won't see the contradiction.

    Good luck lads with that one.

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    This is amusing:

    The number of senior BBC managers paid more than £150,000 has risen, despite assurances the figure would fall. A National Audit Office report says there were 98 people on that salary level last year, up from 89 in 2012."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39715025

    Who'd have thunk it?

    That's a huge number for any organisation. They have what, a dozen heads of department, maybe a dozen deputies. Who are the other 74 people?

    Anyone paid six figures from taxpayer money should have their title and salary published. No exceptions.
    There are 24,000 employees, and there will be qualified accountants and lawyers in that mix (where the alternative is paying more for an external firm).
    Oh sure there's some experienced professionals in there, but accountants and lawyers elsewhere in the civil service don't seem to be earning more than the PM.

    They should publish the titles and salaries, let those who pay their wages know where their money goes.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    Talking of Burnham, if the polling remains as uncompetitive as it is will more of the Mayoral elections become competitive? I don't really have much of a feel for these but if the Labour vote is both diminished and distinctly unenthused there must be a chance of some significant differential turnout.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,853

    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?

    The single thread in Labour's collapse is Len McCluskey. He got EdM over the line in 2010. It was Unite that caused the Falkirk mess that led to the leadership election rules being changed and it's Len that has kept Corbyn's head above water. Funnily enough, Len has done very well indeed out of the last seven years.
    A very good point. I think the Falkirk mess was a pivotal point in Labour's misfortunes.
    And yet at the time the dimmer posters on here kept telling us that there was nothing to see as 'it hadn't affected the polls in England'.......
    I believe I was saying the scandal was important whilst it was unfolding. It was horrible optics at a time when Scottish voters were faced with a reasonable alternative in the form of the SNP. Why vote for the venal and corrupt Labour party when you could vote for the SNP? ;)
    Indeed - several of us were alive for its potential to cause problems for Labour in Scotland - though I suspect few of us imagined they would be on such a scale!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    alex. said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Morning all.

    One of the implications of this is that it may be worth betting on Sunderland to beat their record - I assume that they are going to try again.

    Did we ever verify the story from the other day that they don't actually count the Lab vote in Sunderland, rather they count all the other parties' votes and subtract from the total number of ballot papers?

    One assumes that if the result is somewhat closer than usual, that method (if used) would be open to challenge by a candidate and replaced by a 'proper' count of the votes.
    Surely if they did that Labour would be getting the benefit of any spoilt papers that should be eliminated? And surely we would have noticed if Sunderland had not had any spoilt papers in the last few elections?
    Presumably the sorting process identifies the spoilt/disputed papers

    Yeah, I thought of that after I had posted. Up too early this morning.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207

    Sandpit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Contaminated blood used by NHS - Burnham wants inquiry.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39713396

    There should *always* be an enquiry after an incident like this. No-one 'calls for an enquiry' after a plane crash do they? It just bloody happens, with a dedicated team of impartial professionals producing a report designed to help others learn from mistakes.

    That said, Andy Burnham can bugger off. Naked political opportunism from the man who said that enquiries weren't necessary when children died on his watch.
    Mid-Staffs was before before Burnham, who set up the enquiry.
    Wrong.

    There were several inquiries, and two ones chaired by Francis. The first, set up by Burnham, was criticised by Francis (its own chair, ffs) for being too narrowly focused. The second, set up by the coalition and again chaired by Francis, finally got to the truth.

    The question all Burnham defenders should answer is this: Burnham's inquiry had 18 recommendations. The second inquiry had 290.

    Which of those additional recommendations would you drop?

    Also, Burnham was in an NHS position right when the scandal was happening - Minister of State (Department of Health) (Delivery and Quality) May 2006 - Jun 2007

    It should also be remembered that Burnham said he regretted the second inquiry for the harm it caused the reputation of the NHS. The man's scum.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    Tories in Basingstoke highlight important local issue:
    http://www.markpack.org.uk/149482/ooops-conservative-leaflet-blunder-basingstoke/
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    CD13 said:

    I'm beginning to feel very sorry for Labour canvassers when they try to explain their policy on Brexit to their Leave supporters.

    On Brexit, the Tories say. We accept the result of the referendum. We are trying to get the best economic deal we can with the EU.

    LDs say We don't accept the result of the referendum because we know better.

    Labour says We accept the result of the referendum. The EU holds all the cards but we must make the best of it. So we demand that the Tories achieve exactly what We want even when we know it's impossible. When they don't, we will ensure we stay in the EU.

    Even worse, is the sub-plot, WE know this is nonsense but we think you are stupid Neanderthals and won't see the contradiction.

    Good luck lads with that one.

    If I was a Labour canvasser I would be delighted to discuss Brexit, as opposed to Corbyn, his friends, whatever the defence policy is today, economic policy...
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    CD13 said:

    I'm beginning to feel very sorry for Labour canvassers when they try to explain their policy on Brexit to their Leave supporters.

    On Brexit, the Tories say. We accept the result of the referendum. We are trying to get the best economic deal we can with the EU.

    LDs say We don't accept the result of the referendum because we know better.

    Labour says We accept the result of the referendum. The EU holds all the cards but we must make the best of it. So we demand that the Tories achieve exactly what We want even when we know it's impossible. When they don't, we will ensure we stay in the EU.

    Even worse, is the sub-plot, WE know this is nonsense but we think you are stupid Neanderthals and won't see the contradiction.

    Good luck lads with that one.

    Thanks for the completely unbiased and fair summing up.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited April 2017

    Sandpit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Contaminated blood used by NHS - Burnham wants inquiry.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39713396

    There should *always* be an enquiry after an incident like this. No-one 'calls for an enquiry' after a plane crash do they? It just bloody happens, with a dedicated team of impartial professionals producing a report designed to help others learn from mistakes.

    That said, Andy Burnham can bugger off. Naked political opportunism from the man who said that enquiries weren't necessary when children died on his watch.
    Mid-Staffs was before before Burnham, who set up the enquiry.
    Wrong.

    There were several inquiries, and two ones chaired by Francis. The first, set up by Burnham, was criticised by Francis (its own chair, ffs) for being too narrowly focused. The second, set up by the coalition and again chaired by Francis, finally got to the truth.

    The question all Burnham defenders should answer is this: Burnham's inquiry had 18 recommendations. The second inquiry had 290.

    Which of those additional recommendations would you drop?

    Also, Burnham was in an NHS position right when the scandal was happening - Minister of State (Department of Health) (Delivery and Quality) May 2006 - Jun 2007

    It should also be remembered that Burnham said he regretted the second inquiry for the harm it caused the reputation of the NHS. The man's scum.
    All while taking loads of dosh from private health providers...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510

    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a similar table for when Tory or Labour leaders conceded defeat?

    I stayed awake for over 38 hours on Election Day. Kept going by that mad morning of leader resignations.

    Where would Labour be now if Ed hadn't resigned, or if he'd stayed on for a few months?

    The single thread in Labour's collapse is Len McCluskey. He got EdM over the line in 2010. It was Unite that caused the Falkirk mess that led to the leadership election rules being changed and it's Len that has kept Corbyn's head above water. Funnily enough, Len has done very well indeed out of the last seven years.
    A very good point. I think the Falkirk mess was a pivotal point in Labour's misfortunes.
    And yet at the time the dimmer posters on here kept telling us that there was nothing to see as 'it hadn't affected the polls in England'.......
    I believe I was saying the scandal was important whilst it was unfolding. It was horrible optics at a time when Scottish voters were faced with a reasonable alternative in the form of the SNP. Why vote for the venal and corrupt Labour party when you could vote for the SNP? ;)
    Indeed - several of us were alive for its potential to cause problems for Labour in Scotland - though I suspect few of us imagined they would be on such a scale!
    I think this is a spurious correlation. I doubt 1 voter in 100 would even know that Labour had issues about candidate selection in Falkirk some years ago, let alone care. It did show a party that was rotten to the core for those that were really interested but it was merely a symptom of that rottenness, not its cause.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    dr_spyn said:

    Act in haste, repent at leisure.

    I acted in haste with Mrs JackW in the early days and the repenting at leisure has been a joy .... :sunglasses:

    Brownie points in the bank there .... :smiley:

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited April 2017
    I see todays labour announcement is more shaking of the magic money tree with no answer how any of this will be balanced out.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    edited April 2017
    Mr Song,

    "Thanks for the completely unbiased and fair summing up."

    You're welcome.

    Pretend I'm a Labour voter and I ask "Who has all the cards in this negotiation? Many of your MPs say it's the EU, is that true? Yet your policy is to demand that we get exactly what we want from the deal or we will veto it? Is that even coherent?"

    What do you tell me without alienating me completely?



  • Options
    Anecdote Alert

    At a chess match last night one of the opposing team was talking about his politics.

    He said he'd been a :Labour voter for over 30 years, but no longer. This time he'll be voting Lib Dem, despite the whole coalition experience, because he thinks they're the only party with a sane Europe policy. He lives in Sheffield Heeley.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,207
    Off-topic:

    China's launched it's second aircraft carrier.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-39715228

    Should help them get up to speed with operations quicker.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    I see todays labour announcement is more shaking of the magic money tree with no answer how any of this will be balanced out.

    Given The Tories no longer care about the deficit either, doesn't that mean they'll be shaking th magic money tree too, just not as hard?
This discussion has been closed.