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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP’s collapse gives huge boost to CON in Wales. Now 10% ahea

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  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,667
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:
    No problem.

    Wait - do they have to a) land on the surface, b) return?
    Not possible in 4 years.
    We can't even launch someone on a one way doomed crash landing to Mars? Damn.
    If you put it that way ... ;)

    AIUI, the US don't have a man-rated heavy-lift rocket any more (in fact they don't have any man-rated rockets). The Falcon 9 Heavy, due for first flight in six months (*), will have enough oomph to launch a Dragon capsule to Mars. They're planning to do this (unmanned) in 2020, and company head Elon Musk has given it a 50/50 chance of landing successfully.

    Mars is probably the hardest icy or rocky body to land on in the solar system. An appreciable gravity, with an atmosphere too tenuous for parachutes for large vehicles or for appreciable aerobraking, yet enough of an atmosphere to make rocket landings complicated.

    AIUI. I am not a rocket scientist.

    (*) A joke. It's been six months away from first flight for years.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Is Trump trying to get to Mars before the Vvvvhinese? And is he going to build a wall when the US get there to keep others out?

    Dear Leader Paul Nuttall got to Mars this afternnoon, fooling journalists he was holed up in a hotel room.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156
    Ishmael_Z said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:
    No problem.

    Wait - do they have to a) land on the surface, b) return?
    Not possible in 4 years.
    Nope. They don't have a suitable rocket, capsule or tested landing mechanism, yet alone a way to return.

    Aside from that (oh, and a budget) - it's a goer. ;)

    SpaceX might be able to launch a Dragon 2 capsule (Red Dragon) on Mars in 2020, but that's nohere near big enough to be manned or useful for a manned flight.

    I think the next synods are July 2018 and ?October? 2020.
    Well, hang on, Nasa are sending off another Mars rover, launch date mid 2020. https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/overview/
    Not sure how big the max payload is for an Atlas V rocket but there's time and to spare to beef it up. So a landing in Trump's first time would be at the far right of the sanity bell curve, but not strictly speaking impossible. "Return them in safety" raises some issues though.

    My guess is Donald would be taken aback if shown a to-scale diagram of the earth, the ISS in low earth orbit, the moon, and Mars.
    We can get people to Mars if we massively increase NASA's budget and also cut out alot of the inefficiency.

    Or he should just give SpaceX $100 billion. Musk could probably build a rocket to get there in Trumps' second term with a great wodge of cash. NASA is inefficient with alot of their spend - the bloody SLS...
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    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? How can you tell what effect your words are having? "It's just short for Pakistani, how can that be racist?" If you want to know if something is racist you ask the people or person who might be affected.

    The definition I used is a paraphrasing of "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person" which is the definition of a racist incident from the Macpherson report. It has been adopted by most if not all public sector institutions in Britain: we use it at the school I teach at. Do I support it? I thought it was ridiculous at first but having lived with it for nearly 20 years I would say it works.

    What right do I to tell someone else that the name someone called them or the cartoon that some one has drawn in their book is not racist if they think it is?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,335
    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    I'm genuinely bemused by that one.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    'Quite what Labour does in the face of this impending disaster is hard to say.'

    There is nothing they can do apart from brace themselves for the result. They've already tried to get rid of Corbyn and it failed miserably. I'm not sure (to quote Dan Jarvis) what the repulsive Yvette Cooper would achieve anyway. It might be an even worse result with her at the helm.

    They have to take it on the chin and try again to shift Corbyn afterwards. And the only way that's even a possibility is if he resigns.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for Labour - they have brought this calamity upon themselves. The humiliation awaiting them is richly deserved.
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156
    Wales projection:

    CON 22
    LAB 13
    L DEM 2
    GREEN 0
    UKIP 0
    PLAID 3
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,122
    edited April 2017
    Anybody know what the polls about that the Tele is quoting with the Tories set to win 67 Labour held marginal seats?
  • Options
    llefllef Posts: 298
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Labour are 4/-6/1 in those Welsh constituencies now w Skybet... Newport East/West, Ceredigion, Delyn etc... over reaction?

    How much do you want on Labour at 6-1 in Ceredigion :D ?

    The Tories are near to 50% in the rest according to my model.

    The one to reback Labour at heavy odds against is Yns Mon.
    Don't think the Tories will win Ceredigion, the Tories there will (and have in past) vote liberal to ensure that Plaid does not win.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody know what the poll's about that the Tele is quoting with the Tories set to win 67 Labour held marginal seats?

    Graudian / ICM poll from earlier.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,358
    edited April 2017

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? How can you tell what effect your words are having? "It's just short for Pakistani, how can that be racist?" If you want to know if something is racist you ask the people or person who might be affected.

    The definition I used is a paraphrasing of "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person" which is the definition of a racist incident from the Macpherson report. It has been adopted by most if not all public sector institutions in Britain: we use it at the school I teach at. Do I support it? I thought it was ridiculous at first but having lived with it for nearly 20 years I would say it works.

    What right do I to tell someone else that the name someone called them or the cartoon that some one has drawn in their book is not racist if they think it is?
    There has to be a reasonableness test. I could perceive many things as racist or offensive, but it might be because I am an idiot and literally no one else would think that, and it would not be fair on society to curtail their free expression through official sanction because I am an idiot.

    Paki is a good example where while the user might not think they are being insensitive or racist, it would not, in a great many contexts, be unreasonable for someone to find it so. But that does not mean any single person's perception of perceived racism should be the only qualifier when determining whether it is so.

    Objectively defining racism definitively is probably impossible, life is complex, but making it entirely subjective without qualification or reason, seems a step too far in the other direction.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156
    edited April 2017
    llef said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Labour are 4/-6/1 in those Welsh constituencies now w Skybet... Newport East/West, Ceredigion, Delyn etc... over reaction?

    How much do you want on Labour at 6-1 in Ceredigion :D ?

    The Tories are near to 50% in the rest according to my model.

    The one to reback Labour at heavy odds against is Yns Mon.
    Don't think the Tories will win Ceredigion, the Tories there will (and have in past) vote liberal to ensure that Plaid does not win.
    I never said they would.

    It is a very safe Lib Dem seat.

    Ceredigion forecast:

    CON 17.48%
    LAB 7.35%
    L DEM 41.71%
    GREEN 4.54%
    UKIP 4.18%
    PLAID 24.73%
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    edited April 2017
    Idiot billionaires, stupid apps, and genius-level swearing: 10 reasons why Silicon Valley is the funniest show on TV

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/internets-biggest-jokes-silicon-valley-funniest-show-tv/

    First episode of Season 4 aired last night in US and was very funny. Is on tonight in the UK.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,496

    kle4 said:

    calum said:
    No problem.

    Wait - do they have to a) land on the surface, b) return?
    Not possible in 4 years.
    Nope. They don't have a suitable rocket, capsule or tested landing mechanism, yet alone a way to return.

    Aside from that (oh, and a budget) - it's a goer. ;)

    SpaceX might be able to launch a Dragon 2 capsule (Red Dragon) on Mars in 2020, but that's nohere near big enough to be manned or useful for a manned flight.

    I think the next synods are July 2018 and ?October? 2020.
    And then theres getting off Mars? Mars' gravity is more than double that of the moon, which means you need a much more powerful rocket to get off, which you have to land safely in the first place.
  • Options
    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    kle4 said:

    Former board members of the collapsed charity Kids Company – including its founder, Camila Batmanghelidjh, and the former BBC chief Alan Yentob – face being banned from serving as company directors, according to reports.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/24/kids-company-founder-camila-batmanghelidjh-facing-directorship-ban

    Thank goodness. Shameless, odious woman judging from the transcripts from the questioning at the time.
    +1
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    The Bank of England's staff gym has failed to update its lockers to accept the new £1, it has emerged, causing frustration among exercisers.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/24/bank-englands-staff-gym-lockers-not-accepting-new-1-coins/
  • Options
    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    'Not sure, the label seems to have fallen off' would be an entertaining reply. ;-)
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,122

    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody know what the poll's about that the Tele is quoting with the Tories set to win 67 Labour held marginal seats?

    Graudian / ICM poll from earlier.
    Thanks. :)
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Cyan said:

    AnneJGP said:

    That accounts for a lot, but is also very depressing. The young of Wales must be leaving in droves.
    Or the old are moving to Wales in droves, and being old they don't produce any new kids of their own?
    Forty-odd years ago I travelled a lot on the line between London & Bristol. I came to recognise that all the trains heading out of Wales were always packed, but the ones going into Wales half empty.
    Do you think the train-travelling Taffs worked a shorter day than you a longer one?
    :smile: No data. I travelled random days of the week, random times of day.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,358
    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    Noted!
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    edited April 2017
    jayfdee said:

    kle4 said:

    Former board members of the collapsed charity Kids Company – including its founder, Camila Batmanghelidjh, and the former BBC chief Alan Yentob – face being banned from serving as company directors, according to reports.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/24/kids-company-founder-camila-batmanghelidjh-facing-directorship-ban

    Thank goodness. Shameless, odious woman judging from the transcripts from the questioning at the time.
    +1
    Not just the transcripts. The BBC aired a documentary which was created by a long time friend of Batwoman, which was supposed to be a lovely soft soaper of what a great do-gooder she was, but the lady making said I just couldn't hide the stuff I witnessed. Batwoman was absolutely barking and totally disconnected from the real world.

    Sounds like somebody else, I just can't think who...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156

    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
    I think it is very romantic !
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
    The age range is the same as between Donald and Melania, so not so remarkeable, apart from the obvious one.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? How can you tell what effect your words are having? "It's just short for Pakistani, how can that be racist?" If you want to know if something is racist you ask the people or person who might be affected.

    The definition I used is a paraphrasing of "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person" which is the definition of a racist incident from the Macpherson report. It has been adopted by most if not all public sector institutions in Britain: we use it at the school I teach at. Do I support it? I thought it was ridiculous at first but having lived with it for nearly 20 years I would say it works.

    What right do I to tell someone else that the name someone called them or the cartoon that some one has drawn in their book is not racist if they think it is?
    It certainly worked in Rotherham, by ensuring that the police accepted that they had no response to the racism card in any circumstances whatever.

    And consider the word "niggardly" over which a distinguished US academic lost his job. Happy about that?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,667
    Ishmael_Z said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:
    No problem.

    Wait - do they have to a) land on the surface, b) return?
    Not possible in 4 years.
    Nope. They don't have a suitable rocket, capsule or tested landing mechanism, yet alone a way to return.

    Aside from that (oh, and a budget) - it's a goer. ;)

    SpaceX might be able to launch a Dragon 2 capsule (Red Dragon) on Mars in 2020, but that's nohere near big enough to be manned or useful for a manned flight.

    I think the next synods are July 2018 and ?October? 2020.
    Well, hang on, Nasa are sending off another Mars rover, launch date mid 2020. https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/overview/
    Not sure how big the max payload is for an Atlas V rocket but there's time and to spare to beef it up. So a landing in Trump's first time would be at the far right of the sanity bell curve, but not strictly speaking impossible. "Return them in safety" raises some issues though.

    My guess is Donald would be taken aback if shown a to-scale diagram of the earth, the ISS in low earth orbit, the moon, and Mars.
    Mars 2020 is, AIUI, a revamp of the Curiosity rover, which weighs a ton(ne?). It uses the brilliantly Heath Robinsonesque skycrane to land it.

    From Wiki, Atlas V HLV, which was never built, can get nearly 30 tonnes to LEO.

    But the main issue is that they don't have a capsule capable of the journey - or at least of keeping people alive within it.

    As an aside, after a few years the ISS started having problems with its water reclamation system. The filters were getting clogged. It turned out to be calcium, which was coming from the astronauts' bones. They were losing bone mass in zero-g, the calcium was getting excreted, and it was clogging up the filters.

    Eeewwww.

    There are a thousand and one issues like this to be sorted before a capsule can be made to go to Mars - the ISS has the advantages of being large and easily resuppliable from Earth when things go wrong.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    edited April 2017
    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen.

    It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
    I think it is very romantic !
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LgD-1QQVIwY
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Pulpstar said:

    llef said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Labour are 4/-6/1 in those Welsh constituencies now w Skybet... Newport East/West, Ceredigion, Delyn etc... over reaction?

    How much do you want on Labour at 6-1 in Ceredigion :D ?

    The Tories are near to 50% in the rest according to my model.

    The one to reback Labour at heavy odds against is Yns Mon.
    Don't think the Tories will win Ceredigion, the Tories there will (and have in past) vote liberal to ensure that Plaid does not win.
    I never said they would.

    It is a very safe Lib Dem seat.

    Ceredigion forecast:

    CON 17.48%
    LAB 7.35%
    L DEM 41.71%
    GREEN 4.54%
    UKIP 4.18%
    PLAID 24.73%
    Are you in Bosworth this Saturday?
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody know what the poll's about that the Tele is quoting with the Tories set to win 67 Labour held marginal seats?

    Graudian / ICM poll from earlier.
    Thanks. :)
    https://twitter.com/election_data/status/856471766255927297
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Given that avoiding eye contact is common in Autism isn't this stupidity itself discriminatory?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,358
    Pulpstar said:

    Wales projection:

    CON 22
    LAB 13
    L DEM 2
    GREEN 0
    UKIP 0
    PLAID 3

    What's the other LD seaat?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen.

    It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    The NF?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,081

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen.

    It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    She thinks she can be Marianne instead of Marine.

    It might backfire if the core FN supporters think she's betrayed them.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    isam said:

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen.

    It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    The NF?
    Sorry FN...
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen. It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    A gambit to try and win over those who share her views on many things but who recoil at the FN brand, I guess.

    I have no idea whether her personal favourability polling and that of the FN diverge.
  • Options
    Jason said:

    'Quite what Labour does in the face of this impending disaster is hard to say.'

    There is nothing they can do apart from brace themselves for the result. They've already tried to get rid of Corbyn and it failed miserably. I'm not sure (to quote Dan Jarvis) what the repulsive Yvette Cooper would achieve anyway. It might be an even worse result with her at the helm.

    They have to take it on the chin and try again to shift Corbyn afterwards. And the only way that's even a possibility is if he resigns.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for Labour - they have brought this calamity upon themselves. The humiliation awaiting them is richly deserved.

    Nor me, Jason. No sympathy at all. The current crisis has its roots as far back as the Blair/Brown wars but they are by no means the only culprits.

    But a democracy needs a decent opposition. The Tories went a.w.o.l. during the IDS period, and the country was all the worse for it. The Labour Government was simply not subjected to the type of scrutiny that was needed. The same is happening now with colors reversed.

    And you don't have to be especially charitable to feel some sympathy for the people Labour is supposed to represent. Who will speak for them if Labour doesn't?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,358
    ToryJim said:
    Weeks to convince them? He's had over a year!
  • Options
    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    THREE HOURS .....blimey, do you fancy her a bit then?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen. It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    A gambit to try and win over those who share her views on many things but who recoil at the FN brand, I guess.

    I have no idea whether her personal favourability polling and that of the FN diverge.
    It might have worked if she did it a year ago, but between round one and round two....
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,105
    kle4 said:

    ToryJim said:
    Weeks to convince them? He's had over a year!
    You can't fatten the pig on market day!
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen. It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    A gambit to try and win over those who share her views on many things but who recoil at the FN brand, I guess.

    I have no idea whether her personal favourability polling and that of the FN diverge.
    It might have worked if she did it a year ago, but between round one and round two....
    It looks a bit desperate, certainly.

    Do they have any direct debates now? Just the run off candidates?
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? How can you tell what effect your words are having? "It's just short for Pakistani, how can that be racist?" If you want to know if something is racist you ask the people or person who might be affected.

    The definition I used is a paraphrasing of "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person" which is the definition of a racist incident from the Macpherson report. It has been adopted by most if not all public sector institutions in Britain: we use it at the school I teach at. Do I support it? I thought it was ridiculous at first but having lived with it for nearly 20 years I would say it works.

    What right do I to tell someone else that the name someone called them or the cartoon that some one has drawn in their book is not racist if they think it is?
    There has to be a reasonableness test. I could perceive many things as racist or offensive, but it might be because I am an idiot, and it would not be fair on society to curtail their free expression through official sanction because I am an idiot.
    The thing is, it works. (At least it seems to well enough at school).
    If people start to abuse it, accusing physics teachers of racism because they were talking about black-body radiation or similar then it will break down and we will have to find another one. But that will be difficult because it will involve you telling someone who is deeply upset at what they have been called that they are wrong.

    I am worried when I see stories like the one above about 'micro-aggressions' but most of those are people being offended on behalf of someone else.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,667
    Pulpstar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:
    No problem.

    Wait - do they have to a) land on the surface, b) return?
    Not possible in 4 years.
    Nope. They don't have a suitable rocket, capsule or tested landing mechanism, yet alone a way to return.

    Aside from that (oh, and a budget) - it's a goer. ;)

    SpaceX might be able to launch a Dragon 2 capsule (Red Dragon) on Mars in 2020, but that's nohere near big enough to be manned or useful for a manned flight.

    I think the next synods are July 2018 and ?October? 2020.
    Well, hang on, Nasa are sending off another Mars rover, launch date mid 2020. https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/overview/
    Not sure how big the max payload is for an Atlas V rocket but there's time and to spare to beef it up. So a landing in Trump's first time would be at the far right of the sanity bell curve, but not strictly speaking impossible. "Return them in safety" raises some issues though.

    My guess is Donald would be taken aback if shown a to-scale diagram of the earth, the ISS in low earth orbit, the moon, and Mars.
    We can get people to Mars if we massively increase NASA's budget and also cut out alot of the inefficiency.

    Or he should just give SpaceX $100 billion. Musk could probably build a rocket to get there in Trumps' second term with a great wodge of cash. NASA is inefficient with alot of their spend - the bloody SLS...
    Oi! The SLS project is very efficiently designing a brilliant rocket system (and it will be) that NASA can only afford to fly once a year ... ;)

    Musk couldn't do that in time: he regularly misses his timescales.

    Besides, what would the mission be? Kennedy's speech was brilliant because it gave three easy-to-measure aims: 1) get man to the moon, 2) before the end of the decade, and 3) return them safely.

    Any Mars shot would need equally clear aims. And getting there quickly in this manner may please Zubrin, but not Musk: it risks having the Apollo situation once more. "We've been there, why send anyone else?" Whereas Musk wants a continuing project.

    There's also many, many technical issues to be solved. The larger the craft we send, the more redundancy we can have to solve those issues. And our current launchers cannot raise enough mass, even with the added complexities of construction in orbit.
  • Options
    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    Noted!
    As a Scouser, "Are youse looking at me" was an invitation to a fight, the response ,if you were up for it was "So what if I am",
    Looking at someone in Liverpool was a serious breach of etiquette.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen. It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    A gambit to try and win over those who share her views on many things but who recoil at the FN brand, I guess.

    I have no idea whether her personal favourability polling and that of the FN diverge.
    It might have worked if she did it a year ago, but between round one and round two....
    It looks a bit desperate, certainly.

    Do they have any direct debates now? Just the run off candidates?
    I heard on France 24 yesterday say there would be a head to head debate.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Given that avoiding eye contact is common in Autism isn't this stupidity itself discriminatory?
    Eye contact is also culture specific. Looking people in the eye can be a problem in Burma for example, seen as aggression.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pulpstar said:

    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
    I think it is very romantic !
    Indeed so ....

    Mrs JackW is 143 .... :smiley:
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen.

    It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    The NF?
    Sorry FN...
    No, Farage's solo party!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,358

    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? How can you tell what effect your words are having? "It's just short for Pakistani, how can that be racist?" If you want to know if something is racist you ask the people or person who might be affected.

    The definition I used is a paraphrasing of "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person" which is the definition of a racist incident from the Macpherson report. It has been adopted by most if not all public sector institutions in Britain: we use it at the school I teach at. Do I support it? I thought it was ridiculous at first but having lived with it for nearly 20 years I would say it works.

    What right do I to tell someone else that the name someone called them or the cartoon that some one has drawn in their book is not racist if they think it is?
    There has to be a reasonableness test. I could perceive many things as racist or offensive, but it might be because I am an idiot, and it would not be fair on society to curtail their free expression through official sanction because I am an idiot.
    The thing is, it works. (At least it seems to well enough at school).
    It might be ok at school level, but it seems too simplistic and a means to shut other people down once you get to adult hood
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,667
    And remaining wildly off-topic, here's NASA@s costing for a manned Mars mission: $450 billion for an austere mission over three decades.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/04/the-journey-to-mars-has-a-price-tag-and-it-will-give-congress-sticker-shock/

    Ouch.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,081
    The EU demands financial services be ring fenced from Brexit deal.

    https://twitter.com/brexit/status/856582290352332801
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Given that avoiding eye contact is common in Autism isn't this stupidity itself discriminatory?
    I was thinking that myself
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    I see May has got the team back together...First Lynton Dead Cat Crosby and now Jim Messina.

    https://www.ft.com/content/09a54221-3bb0-3f42-8fe2-19657f9d96f3
  • Options
    SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    An Asian fellow I used to work with, probably the nicest person I have met in the betting game, used to say things were only racist if the intention was to be.

    How old fashioned that seems now
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    I'm genuinely bemused by that one.
    It's going to present difficulties for those who avoid eye-contact because the other person will interpret eye-contact as a 'challenge' or 'disrespect'.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,496

    Jason said:

    'Quite what Labour does in the face of this impending disaster is hard to say.'

    There is nothing they can do apart from brace themselves for the result. They've already tried to get rid of Corbyn and it failed miserably. I'm not sure (to quote Dan Jarvis) what the repulsive Yvette Cooper would achieve anyway. It might be an even worse result with her at the helm.

    They have to take it on the chin and try again to shift Corbyn afterwards. And the only way that's even a possibility is if he resigns.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for Labour - they have brought this calamity upon themselves. The humiliation awaiting them is richly deserved.

    Nor me, Jason. No sympathy at all. The current crisis has its roots as far back as the Blair/Brown wars but they are by no means the only culprits.

    But a democracy needs a decent opposition. The Tories went a.w.o.l. during the IDS period, and the country was all the worse for it. The Labour Government was simply not subjected to the type of scrutiny that was needed. The same is happening now with colors reversed.

    And you don't have to be especially charitable to feel some sympathy for the people Labour is supposed to represent. Who will speak for them if Labour doesn't?
    The Tories ;-)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    jayfdee said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    Noted!
    As a Scouser, "Are youse looking at me" was an invitation to a fight, the response ,if you were up for it was "So what if I am",
    Looking at someone in Liverpool was a serious breach of etiquette.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,358

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Given that avoiding eye contact is common in Autism isn't this stupidity itself discriminatory?
    Eye contact is also culture specific. Looking people in the eye can be a problem in Burma for example, seen as aggression.
    Well, the good people of Oxford know better, so tough diddums.
  • Options
    JackW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
    I think it is very romantic !
    Indeed so ....

    Mrs JackW is 143 .... :smiley:
    And how old is your girlfriend, Jack?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,074

    The EU demands financial services be ring fenced from Brexit deal.

    https://twitter.com/brexit/status/856582290352332801

    Silly. If they want to avoid an offshore Singapore.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,931
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wales projection:

    CON 22
    LAB 13
    L DEM 2
    GREEN 0
    UKIP 0
    PLAID 3

    What's the other LD seaat?
    A projected gain in Cardiff C off Labour?
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen. It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    A gambit to try and win over those who share her views on many things but who recoil at the FN brand, I guess.

    I have no idea whether her personal favourability polling and that of the FN diverge.
    It might have worked if she did it a year ago, but between round one and round two....
    It looks a bit desperate, certainly.

    Do they have any direct debates now? Just the run off candidates?
    I heard on France 24 yesterday say there would be a head to head debate.
    It seems so.

    May 3rd.

    Melenchon has refused to endorse Macron, Hollande has.
  • Options
    Le Pen is learning from her father's round 2 humiliation in 2002. Very much doubt it will work, but she has to roll some dice - she can't just sit there passively and watch the nation enjoy a rare rush of unity as they put old disputes aside and come together to give the common enemy a kicking.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,800
    Saltire said:
    They wouldn't be pointing towards where they got their loans from?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? How can you tell what effect your words are having? "It's just short for Pakistani, how can that be racist?" If you want to know if something is racist you ask the people or person who might be affected.

    The definition I used is a paraphrasing of "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person" which is the definition of a racist incident from the Macpherson report. It has been adopted by most if not all public sector institutions in Britain: we use it at the school I teach at. Do I support it? I thought it was ridiculous at first but having lived with it for nearly 20 years I would say it works.

    What right do I to tell someone else that the name someone called them or the cartoon that some one has drawn in their book is not racist if they think it is?
    There has to be a reasonableness test. I could perceive many things as racist or offensive, but it might be because I am an idiot, and it would not be fair on society to curtail their free expression through official sanction because I am an idiot.
    The thing is, it works. (At least it seems to well enough at school).
    It might be ok at school level, but it seems too simplistic and a means to shut other people down once you get to adult hood
    It is the yardstick in tbe NHS too.

    It is only the starting point of an investigation, not its conclusion. I have been involved in a number of incidents where at least one party perceived racism as the motivator, but often the conclusions were that racism was not proven.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
    I think it is very romantic !
    Indeed so ....

    Mrs JackW is 143 .... :smiley:
    And how old is your girlfriend, Jack?
    Ageless .... and looking strikingly like Mrs JackW .... :sunglasses:

    ...................................................

    Hope all is well in the world of PB's deputy TOTY and most revered cross dresser ?
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
    I've recently had an advert featuring an obviously-retired bloke wind-surfing with a very young (nearly naked) woman on his back. She can't be much more than 19, never mind 39.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,074

    Jason said:

    'Quite what Labour does in the face of this impending disaster is hard to say.'

    There is nothing they can do apart from brace themselves for the result. They've already tried to get rid of Corbyn and it failed miserably. I'm not sure (to quote Dan Jarvis) what the repulsive Yvette Cooper would achieve anyway. It might be an even worse result with her at the helm.

    They have to take it on the chin and try again to shift Corbyn afterwards. And the only way that's even a possibility is if he resigns.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for Labour - they have brought this calamity upon themselves. The humiliation awaiting them is richly deserved.

    Nor me, Jason. No sympathy at all. The current crisis has its roots as far back as the Blair/Brown wars but they are by no means the only culprits.

    But a democracy needs a decent opposition. The Tories went a.w.o.l. during the IDS period, and the country was all the worse for it. The Labour Government was simply not subjected to the type of scrutiny that was needed. The same is happening now with colors reversed.

    And you don't have to be especially charitable to feel some sympathy for the people Labour is supposed to represent. Who will speak for them if Labour doesn't?
    To answer your question from earlier, Peter, I thought my comment might be unwelcome from some Labour supporters, some of which still seem to think everything will be ok if Corbyn is ditched, particularly from a Tory during an election campaign.

    You have the intelligence and self-awareness to recognise that he's a symptom and not the cause, but I'm not sure how many others in the Labour membership do.
  • Options
    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618

    jayfdee said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    Noted!
    As a Scouser, "Are youse looking at me" was an invitation to a fight, the response ,if you were up for it was "So what if I am",
    Looking at someone in Liverpool was a serious breach of etiquette.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA
    Yes I knew someone would post that sketch,but it is very good thanks.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,529
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wales projection:

    CON 22
    LAB 13
    L DEM 2
    GREEN 0
    UKIP 0
    PLAID 3

    What's the other LD seaat?
    I would guess they forecast taking back Cardiff Central
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,105
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,074

    And remaining wildly off-topic, here's NASA@s costing for a manned Mars mission: $450 billion for an austere mission over three decades.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/04/the-journey-to-mars-has-a-price-tag-and-it-will-give-congress-sticker-shock/

    Ouch.

    How much did the US spend in Iraq over 8 years?

    #justasking
  • Options

    jayfdee said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    Noted!
    As a Scouser, "Are youse looking at me" was an invitation to a fight, the response ,if you were up for it was "So what if I am",
    Looking at someone in Liverpool was a serious breach of etiquette.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA
    Ah, yes. This reminds me of my tutorials. The dreaming spires - halcyon days.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,390
    Pulpstar said:

    Tories big Swansea West @ 3-1.

    Swansea West was strongly Remain and is very studenty - it really shouldn't be good for the Conservatives.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody know what the poll's about that the Tele is quoting with the Tories set to win 67 Labour held marginal seats?

    Graudian / ICM poll from earlier.
    Thanks. :)
    https://twitter.com/election_data/status/856471766255927297
    That's a terrible poll for the LD's
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scottish election Forecasting

    So modelling the Tory Election Surge Panelbase Gives the Con 11 cons of

    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale -22.31%
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk -19.77%
    Dumfries and Galloway -11.51%
    West Aberdeenshire & Kincardine -8.63%
    Edinburgh South -6.59%
    Moray -5.28%
    East Renfrewshire -5.16%
    Aberdeen South -4.34%
    Perth and North Perthshire -3.87%
    East Lothian -0.85%
    Edinburgh South West -0.71%
    With the following SNP seat under 5% majority so at risk from tactical voting

    Ochil and South Perthshire -0.70%
    Stirling -1.21%
    Angus -1.77%
    Orkney and Shetland -1.77%
    Edinburgh North and Leith -1.80%
    Edinburgh West -2.99%
    North East Fife -3.61%
    Ayr, Carrick & Cumnock -4.11%
    Argyll & Bute -4.65%
    Majority after the -

    As you can see it's a dumb model as it's got Ed North and LEith in there
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? How can you tell what effect your words are having? "It's just short for Pakistani, how can that be racist?" If you want to know if something is racist you ask the people or person who might be affected.

    The definition I used is a paraphrasing of "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person" which is the definition of a racist incident from the Macpherson report. It has been adopted by most if not all public sector institutions in Britain: we use it at the school I teach at. Do I support it? I thought it was ridiculous at first but having lived with it for nearly 20 years I would say it works.

    What right do I to tell someone else that the name someone called them or the cartoon that some one has drawn in their book is not racist if they think it is?
    There has to be a reasonableness test. I could perceive many things as racist or offensive, but it might be because I am an idiot, and it would not be fair on society to curtail their free expression through official sanction because I am an idiot.
    The thing is, it works. (At least it seems to well enough at school).
    If people start to abuse it, accusing physics teachers of racism because they were talking about black-body radiation or similar then it will break down and we will have to find another one. But that will be difficult because it will involve you telling someone who is deeply upset at what they have been called that they are wrong.

    I am worried when I see stories like the one above about 'micro-aggressions' but most of those are people being offended on behalf of someone else.
    It "works" in the sense that it solves 100% of the cases it is meant to solve. I think you are naive if you think it only does that, and nothing else. Rotherham police officer: I am investigating allegations about you grooming young white girls". Suspect: "I perceive what you have just said as racist". The End.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2017

    jayfdee said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    Noted!
    As a Scouser, "Are youse looking at me" was an invitation to a fight, the response ,if you were up for it was "So what if I am",
    Looking at someone in Liverpool was a serious breach of etiquette.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA
    The problem is it used to be just a few places that were like this. Now most of the country is. People always on the lookout for "offence".
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,074
    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    This is where 'if I perceive a racist act, it is one' ends.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,358
    edited April 2017

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? k it is?
    There has to be a reasonableness m an idiot.
    The thing is, it works. (At least it seems to well enough at school).
    It might be ok at school level, but it seems too simplistic and a means to shut other people down once you get to adult hood
    It is the yardstick in tbe NHS too.

    It is only the starting point of an investigation, not its conclusion. I have been involved in a number of incidents where at least one party perceived racism as the motivator, but often the conclusions were that racism was not proven.
    Such a stigma for the accused though. Racism is rightly abhorrent to most people, and while people can be insensitive without meaning to especially through ignorance, we all know that human nature is to assume where there's smoke there's fire. This micro-aggression stuff indicates a mindset that you are almost certainly guilty if you are accused, no matter your intent, it outright emboldens abuse and manufactured grievance, it makes people paranoid they'll offend people through the most innocuous acts, it'll cause others to look for those minor acts in others they thought were inoffensive but are now told the kindly professor is being a micro aggressive racist. Hopefully that sort of approach is rare.
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:
    No problem.

    Wait - do they have to a) land on the surface, b) return?
    Not possible in 4 years.
    Nope. They don't have a suitable rocket, capsule or tested landing mechanism, yet alone a way to return.

    Aside from that (oh, and a budget) - it's a goer. ;)

    SpaceX might be able to launch a Dragon 2 capsule (Red Dragon) on Mars in 2020, but that's nohere near big enough to be manned or useful for a manned flight.

    I think the next synods are July 2018 and ?October? 2020.
    Well, hang on, Nasa are sending off another Mars rover, launch date mid 2020. https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/overview/
    Not sure how big the max payload is for an Atlas V rocket but there's time and to spare to beef it up. So a landing in Trump's first time would be at the far right of the sanity bell curve, but not strictly speaking impossible. "Return them in safety" raises some issues though.

    My guess is Donald would be taken aback if shown a to-scale diagram of the earth, the ISS in low earth orbit, the moon, and Mars.
    Mars 2020 is, AIUI, a revamp of the Curiosity rover, which weighs a ton(ne?). It uses the brilliantly Heath Robinsonesque skycrane to land it.

    From Wiki, Atlas V HLV, which was never built, can get nearly 30 tonnes to LEO.

    But the main issue is that they don't have a capsule capable of the journey - or at least of keeping people alive within it.

    As an aside, after a few years the ISS started having problems with its water reclamation system. The filters were getting clogged. It turned out to be calcium, which was coming from the astronauts' bones. They were losing bone mass in zero-g, the calcium was getting excreted, and it was clogging up the filters.

    Eeewwww.

    There are a thousand and one issues like this to be sorted before a capsule can be made to go to Mars - the ISS has the advantages of being large and easily resuppliable from Earth when things go wrong.
    And after that very popular film, they will certainly need to be capable of bringing any dead bodies back with them.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    AnneJGP said:

    Fenster said:

    BTW, I spent three hours looking at photos of Macron's wife earlier.

    63! Bloody hell. She looks younger than I do, and I'm the same age as Macron.

    It's so weird to me that a 39 year old is with a 63 year old! Even weirder, is when they started dating....
    I've recently had an advert featuring an obviously-retired bloke wind-surfing with a very young (nearly naked) woman on his back. She can't be much more than 19, never mind 39.
    I thought that advert for PB featuring OGH had been scrapped ?!?

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,335

    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    Cyan said:

    This is about the Zionist lobby fighting the movement to "boycott, divest and sanction" (BDS) with any means necessary.
    No. It's about racism.

    If someone says something that you perceive as racist then it is racist: this is the definition of racism used in this country.
    I'm not quite clear whether you support that ridiculous definition, Fysics_Teacher, or whether you are mocking it. That's not the definition of racism used by any sensible person.
    Why not? How can you tell what effect your words are having? "It's just short for Pakistani, how can that be racist?" If you want to know if something is racist you ask the people or person who might be affected.

    The definition I used is a paraphrasing of "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person" which is the definition of a racist incident from the Macpherson report. It has been adopted by most if not all public sector institutions in Britain: we use it at the school I teach at. Do I support it? I thought it was ridiculous at first but having lived with it for nearly 20 years I would say it works.

    What right do I to tell someone else that the name someone called them or the cartoon that some one has drawn in their book is not racist if they think it is?
    There has to be a reasonableness test. I could perceive many things as racist or offensive, but it might be because I am an idiot, and it would not be fair on society to curtail their free expression through official sanction because I am an idiot.
    The thing is, it works. (At least it seems to well enough at school).
    If people start to abuse it, accusing physics teachers of racism because they were talking about black-body radiation or similar then it will break down and we will have to find another one. But that will be difficult because it will involve you telling someone who is deeply upset at what they have been called that they are wrong.

    I am worried when I see stories like the one above about 'micro-aggressions' but most of those are people being offended on behalf of someone else.
    It doesn't work, when it becomes "racist" to investigate child rape or electoral fraud.

    Sometimes you do have to tell people that they are being unreasonable.
  • Options
    Apols for off-topicness and working-classness; this is not about the best bordeaux nor best restaurant to spunk 200 quid..

    As there is a lot of lawyers on here I would appreciate your advice. My eldest son - under 18 - I have just been told by my ex-wife had the plod over having been caught in possession of cannabis. They either gave him a caution or a reprimand - first time with rozzer bother - so guessing a reprimand.

    Questions - will this appear on an enhanced DBS check? He is keen to be an outdoors sporting instruction (sailing/canoeing) and will there be any issues with overseas visa (US/Canada especially).

    Any advice / thoughts greatly appreciated.
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    chestnut said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    "This evening I decided to take my leave of the presidency of the National Front," she (MLP) told TV channel France 2.

    "I will be above partisan considerations."

    It is not clear if her decision will be permanent. She told France 2 that France is approaching a "decisive moment".

    I don't really see what this achieves. Le Pen is the NF and the NF is Le Pen.

    It is like Farage saying he will stand at the GE, but as the Nigel Farage Party. People who like him will vote for him, people who dislike UKIP policies will still not vote for him.
    The French president is supposed to be non-partisan and usually (always?) has no party affiliation when in office.

    Le Pen is not the NF. Have a look at the Rassemblement Bleu Marine. It's far less equivalent to the NF than the Countryside Alliance was to the British Field Sports Society. I'm not suggesting the RBM and its constituents such as the vile Islamophobic "SIEL", led by the Melanie Phillips-ite Karim Ouchikh, should be taken at face value, as if they discovered the FN last week and decided "hey, we share some ideas". But the FN has for a few years now nurtured a scene that's broader than a political party. Another person to mention is Michel Houellebecq. (Curiously, he is said to have attended Brigitte Macron's soirées.) Then there is the "droite hors les murs" (Philippe de Villiers etc.) Villiers is not FN but I'll be surprised if he doesn't support Le Pen against Macron. And there are people such as Alain Soral and Dieudonné M'bala M'bala, who backed Benoît Hamon in the first round. I don't envisage them not supporting Le Pen now.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Pong said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody know what the poll's about that the Tele is quoting with the Tories set to win 67 Labour held marginal seats?

    Graudian / ICM poll from earlier.
    Thanks. :)
    https://twitter.com/election_data/status/856471766255927297
    That's a terrible poll for the LD's
    Why ?

    It is no different to yesterday's ICM poll for Peston .
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,358
    edited April 2017
    Pong said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody know what the poll's about that the Tele is quoting with the Tories set to win 67 Labour held marginal seats?

    Graudian / ICM poll from earlier.
    Thanks. :)
    https://twitter.com/election_data/status/856471766255927297
    That's a terrible poll for the LD's
    A lot of them have been. Still currently static. In fairness Labour are generally static from a couple weeks ago, but Tories are up.

    Apols for off-topicness and working-classness; this is not about the best bordeaux nor best restaurant to spunk 200 quid..

    Nice
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,060

    The centre-left is crying out for Macron. A man actually prepare to GET OFF HIS ARSE and form a popular movement rather than sit on the back benches of a no-hope Labour party or write columns for the Grauniad.

    Macron was only able to do so in the context of a presidential run off system decided on nationwide popular vote. I doubt En Marche will actually win the legislative elections even if he wins the presidency
  • Options

    Apols for off-topicness and working-classness; this is not about the best bordeaux nor best restaurant to spunk 200 quid..

    As there is a lot of lawyers on here I would appreciate your advice. My eldest son - under 18 - I have just been told by my ex-wife had the plod over having been caught in possession of cannabis. They either gave him a caution or a reprimand - first time with rozzer bother - so guessing a reprimand.

    Questions - will this appear on an enhanced DBS check? He is keen to be an outdoors sporting instruction (sailing/canoeing) and will there be any issues with overseas visa (US/Canada especially).

    Any advice / thoughts greatly appreciated.

    If he's accepted a caution, that's formally a conviction, so yes. If he's had a stern talking to, no.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,122

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody know what the poll's about that the Tele is quoting with the Tories set to win 67 Labour held marginal seats?

    Graudian / ICM poll from earlier.
    Thanks. :)
    https://twitter.com/election_data/status/856471766255927297
    Wonder when we'll get the first Election 2017 poll from MORI?
  • Options
    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    AndyJS said:

    jayfdee said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    Noted!
    As a Scouser, "Are youse looking at me" was an invitation to a fight, the response ,if you were up for it was "So what if I am",
    Looking at someone in Liverpool was a serious breach of etiquette.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA
    The problem is it used to be just a few places that were like this. Now most of the country is. People always on the lookout for "offence".
    Yes true, but we Scousers invented the art form of taking offence, in my youth in Liverpool, it was a scary place in the pubs, I had my moments.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    jayfdee said:

    AndyJS said:

    jayfdee said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ

    Staff at Oxford University have been told avoiding eye contact with students could constitute "everyday racism".

    It is included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" that has been published in a newsletter by Oxford's equality and diversity unit.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39692673

    I'd be screwed - I regularly avoid eye contact because I'm so awkward.

    Making eye contact in Glasgow with the wrong person could be perceived by many as a threat - if ever you hear the phrase "who are you looking at" best ignore the Oxford guide and stop looking !!
    Noted!
    As a Scouser, "Are youse looking at me" was an invitation to a fight, the response ,if you were up for it was "So what if I am",
    Looking at someone in Liverpool was a serious breach of etiquette.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA
    The problem is it used to be just a few places that were like this. Now most of the country is. People always on the lookout for "offence".
    Yes true, but we Scousers invented the art form of taking offence, in my youth in Liverpool, it was a scary place in the pubs, I had my moments.
    You're not proud of it are you?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,395

    Apols for off-topicness and working-classness; this is not about the best bordeaux nor best restaurant to spunk 200 quid..

    As there is a lot of lawyers on here I would appreciate your advice. My eldest son - under 18 - I have just been told by my ex-wife had the plod over having been caught in possession of cannabis. They either gave him a caution or a reprimand - first time with rozzer bother - so guessing a reprimand.

    Questions - will this appear on an enhanced DBS check? He is keen to be an outdoors sporting instruction (sailing/canoeing) and will there be any issues with overseas visa (US/Canada especially).

    Any advice / thoughts greatly appreciated.

    A caution is an acceptance that the person did the acts complained of, and should not be accepted without qualified legal advice.
This discussion has been closed.