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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Can we just get rid of Fix Term Act now, because it is clearly a total waste of time.

    No it isn't. It allowed a new election by agreement of the major parties - it would have been much more difficult if Labour did not agree, and the ability to call an early one is necessary flexibility, it just shoulnd't be at the whim of the PM.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,264

    Artist said:

    Will George "three jobs" Osborne stand in Tatton is another interesting question.

    I'm hearing rumours he might not stand.

    I've gone all Queen Victoria after Albert died.
    What, you're shagging your ghillie?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Artist said:

    Will George "three jobs" Osborne stand in Tatton is another interesting question.

    I'm hearing rumours he might not stand.

    I've gone all Queen Victoria after Albert died.
    The man clearly has no interest in being an MP if he is not in government, sorry to break it to you.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,554
    My understanding is that the current boundary commission review continues and will report to parliament by 1 October 2018.

    Thus the 2022 (?) General Election would be based on the new constituencies.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    Because Labour are so obviously going to lose, there will not be any repeat of the SNP fears in England which worked against the LDs in 2015.

    That will help in a number of places. Plus the coalition years are ancient history now. I think, when looking at LD chances, it may actually be more useful to look at 2010 results, and work from there, rather than the outlier 2015 results. there may be a lot of reversion to the norm for their vote.

    Obviously not saying they will get 57 seats, but that looking at 2010 LD vote share is the best starting indication, not 2015 vote share.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652
    The point is I am up in this market and Tessy doesn't want to void my bets.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.
    You underestimate how thick skinned Jezza is, he will have to be prised out!
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Another point on the Lib Dems: they don't have the resources or troops to fight everywhere, having been so hollowed out 2 years ago.

    They might do very well off the back of the national campaign, though. Places like Bath and Twickenham will be very vulnerable to them.

    Strangely the Lib Dems have more resources now than 2 years ago . Membership up over 60% and finances pretty sound from what I hear.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited April 2017
    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,774
    If Labour ends up with more than 200 seats after this it would be a miracle. The likelihood is around 170, I'd have thought.
  • Artist said:

    Will George "three jobs" Osborne stand in Tatton is another interesting question.

    I'm hearing rumours he might not stand.

    I've gone all Queen Victoria after Albert died.
    What, you're shagging your ghillie?
    You git.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270

    jonny83 said:

    Dadge said:

    bobajobPB said:

    This election is good news all round. Particular for Brexit negotiations – May will no longer be in truck to the frothing far right and will be able to deal sensibly.

    Meanwhile, Corbyn must be pressed on whether he will resign if defeated. If he says no to that question, he will look pathetic*

    *Even more so than usual

    My heart sinks at the thought of Corbyn "fighting" the election. Not just because of him and his lack of nous and oomph and skills, but because the media will make it about him and will drone on endlessly about how bad he is and how left-wing he is and how people don't rate him and whether he'll resign. I'm dreading it. It was bad enough with Miliband.

    Which reminds me, Labour showed a distinct lack of balls at the last election. Will they manage to correct this in the next few weeks? I doubt it.

    A Bacon Butty and an Ed Stone damaged him so badly. But those paper attacks are going to look very gentle compared to the onslaught Corbyn will face.
    And unlike the Mail's rather dodgy attack on Ed via his father's views....with Jezza they have a rammed packed virgin train full of stuff from his very own mouth.

    Plus, I doubt the BBC or Guardian are going to be interested in trying to be sympathetic to defending the Labour leader from the Mail being nasty.

    In fact what papers are going to back Labour this time? Morning Star and...?
    I can't see any of the major nationals backing Labour. Lib Dem's might get a bit of love, could see perhaps the Grauniad backing them.

    What worries me about the Lib Dems is Farron isn't exactly a charismatic figure (he's a fellow Blackburn Rovers fan so I have some time for him lol). Imagine if none of the Clegg history had happened and he was their leader now in this situation?

    It's clearly going to be an election with a large Brexit theme to it, where perhaps disgruntled remainers might vote differently. I just wonder deep down if a lot of people realise/accept that Brexit is happening and the Brexit effect might be overplayed here. People do have the capacity to move on.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Too late to stop.

    In my distant memory I think David Alton's by-election victory in Liverpool was just before a GE?
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    edited April 2017
    This will probably get lost amongst the UK election discussion, but putting it out there anyway.

    Opinionway daily rolling poll

    Macron 23 (+1)
    Le Pen 22 (=)
    Fillon 20 (-1)
    Melenchon 19 (+1)

    http://presicote.factoviz.com/index/more/id/qoo_lew_1
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Seven weeks to save the NHS!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,544
    kle4 said:

    Can we just get rid of Fix Term Act now, because it is clearly a total waste of time.

    No it isn't. It allowed a new election by agreement of the major parties - it would have been much more difficult if Labour did not agree, and the ability to call an early one is necessary flexibility, it just shoulnd't be at the whim of the PM.
    If the opposition are not going to say no to a GE when they 20% behind. led by a donkey and only two years into the parliament, then when the f*** are they going to?
  • Cyan said:

    Will she resign if her majority stays the same size?

    Interesting question - she certainly has the problem of raised expectations. Anything less than a majority of 150 may be viewed as underachieving (incredibly!)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Another point on the Lib Dems: they don't have the resources or troops to fight everywhere, having been so hollowed out 2 years ago.

    They might do very well off the back of the national campaign, though. Places like Bath and Twickenham will be very vulnerable to them.

    Strangely the Lib Dems have more resources now than 2 years ago . Membership up over 60% and finances pretty sound from what I hear.
    I think candidates in place too, Farron was predicting a spring election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Scott_P said:
    Bad move - there's SNP in dem hills.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    jonny83 said:

    jonny83 said:

    Dadge said:

    bobajobPB said:

    This election is good news all round. Particular for Brexit negotiations – May will no longer be in truck to the frothing far right and will be able to deal sensibly.

    Meanwhile, Corbyn must be pressed on whether he will resign if defeated. If he says no to that question, he will look pathetic*

    *Even more so than usual

    My heart sinks at the thought of Corbyn "fighting" the election. Not just because of him and his lack of nous and oomph and skills, but because the media will make it about him and will drone on endlessly about how bad he is and how left-wing he is and how people don't rate him and whether he'll resign. I'm dreading it. It was bad enough with Miliband.

    Which reminds me, Labour showed a distinct lack of balls at the last election. Will they manage to correct this in the next few weeks? I doubt it.

    A Bacon Butty and an Ed Stone damaged him so badly. But those paper attacks are going to look very gentle compared to the onslaught Corbyn will face.
    And unlike the Mail's rather dodgy attack on Ed via his father's views....with Jezza they have a rammed packed virgin train full of stuff from his very own mouth.

    Plus, I doubt the BBC or Guardian are going to be interested in trying to be sympathetic to defending the Labour leader from the Mail being nasty.

    In fact what papers are going to back Labour this time? Morning Star and...?
    I can't see any of the major nationals backing Labour. Lib Dem's might get a bit of love, could see perhaps the Grauniad backing them.

    What worries me about the Lib Dems is Farron isn't exactly a charismatic figure (he's a fellow Blackburn Rovers fan so I have some time for him lol). Imagine if none of the Clegg history had happened and he was their leader now in this situation?

    It's clearly going to be an election with a large Brexit theme to it, where perhaps disgruntled remainers might vote differently. I just wonder deep down if a lot of people realise/accept that Brexit is happening and the Brexit effect might be overplayed here. People do have the capacity to move on.
    Except May has already made it a Brexit election
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Seven weeks to save the NHS!
    From Jeremy Corbyn running it?
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Probably not enough notice to cancel it. Postal votes already in etc.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    Mid-life crisis Mason thinks the UK will vote for a left wing coalition.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Artist said:

    Will George "three jobs" Osborne stand in Tatton is another interesting question.

    I'm hearing rumours he might not stand.

    I've gone all Queen Victoria after Albert died.
    If only.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,264

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Copeland Redux.

    Oh.....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,410
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    I think it could be the moment that her mask slipped and begins to be seen as a cynical ,slippery politician no different to the likes of Cameron & Blair.

    Who won elections.

    I'm in agreement with Foxinox about INdyref - it cannot be the case that you can have a GE disrupt the negotiations but not an INdyref.

    Also agree that Corbyn is a decent performer in debates - he could surprise.

    May has done a poor job justifying this on the grounds of a changed situation, but that Corbyn has picked up the gauntlet nullifies the partisan accusation a little, though not completely.

    Also, is she advocating abolishing the Lords? She cited 'unelected' lords as a block on brexit causing difficulty, an election won't change that unless she is planning to do something with them.
    May's rationale for the GE is very similar to Erdogan's for his referendum: institutions wanting to trammel my power and block the will of the People.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,883

    Alistair said:

    So election held, Tories take 40 seats from Labour but lose 42 to the Lib Dems. What then?

    Worse tories take 40 seats rom Labour and the Lib Dems take 52 from the Tories. What then???

    I think we can have a guess at 40 seats the Conservatives can take from Labour.

    But what are the 42 or 52 seats the LibDems can take from the Conservatives ?
    In their wildest dreams, the top out for the Lib Dems would be about 30 gains from the Tories. And, to match a 2005 type tally, the Tories would have to be on their way out of Government.

    But, we live in unpredictable times.
    One factor may be differential turnout between hard-core Remainers vs Brexiteers. The former will be far more determined to make their vote count.
    OR..... The interesting thing will be whether those who voted in June 2016 but otherwise sit on their hands will turn out to give May the security of knowing she can deliver Brexit. And I think that will be a very determined focus of the campaign. If so, high turnout could tip some startling seats the Tories way...
    I seriously doubt that the non-voters who came out to give the system a kicking will see it as their duty to give May a thumping mandate.
  • I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.
  • The busy life of a CLP Secretary. In the last 90 minutes I've:

    1. Looked at emergency CLP Exec / Campaign committee meetings in the next few days
    2. Fired out emails about candidate selection timetable / process
    3. Spoken to our campaign coordinator about how we tie a long campaign into the existing Mayoral campaign
    4. Started drafting the outlines of a leaflet we'd need to write/print/deliver before the formal short campaign starts in a few weeks
    5. Chatted to staffers in neighbouring seats about coordination of next steps
    6. Floated the idea to Mrs RP about me not going to her Mum's this weekend

    Oh, and I'm away on business on polling day and can't get out of it.

    Bloody election. A dictatorship would be better...
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Deafbloke said:

    calum said:

    FF43 said:

    Alistair said:

    So, wait, what if the SNP stand on a "Vote SNP for IndyRef2" platform and get 40+ MPs?

    Vote SNP for Indyref2 and against a hard Brexit. They will clean up Scottish seats on a FPTP basis and Theresa May will have quite a lot of trouble with it. The SNP can reasonably claim a mandate from the Scottish electorate for their Indyref stance, and do so much more easily than they could with a Holyrood election.
    As the Tories look likely to sweep to a 100+ seat majority - Scotland's voters minds will be focused by this !! - I think today's moves will only strengthen the case for an IndyRef2 sooner rather than later.
    So why aren't the SNP calling for one for June 8th? What is Sturgeon afraid of? Or are they not serious about independence?
    They are !!

    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/854285958535098369
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    jonny83 said:

    jonny83 said:

    Dadge said:

    bobajobPB said:

    This election is good news all round. Particular for Brexit negotiations – May will no longer be in truck to the frothing far right and will be able to deal sensibly.

    Meanwhile, Corbyn must be pressed on whether he will resign if defeated. If he says no to that question, he will look pathetic*

    *Even more so than usual

    My heart sinks at the thought of Corbyn "fighting" the election. Not just because of him and his lack of nous and oomph and skills, but because the media will make it about him and will drone on endlessly about how bad he is and how left-wing he is and how people don't rate him and whether he'll resign. I'm dreading it. It was bad enough with Miliband.

    Which reminds me, Labour showed a distinct lack of balls at the last election. Will they manage to correct this in the next few weeks? I doubt it.

    A Bacon Butty and an Ed Stone damaged him so badly. But those paper attacks are going to look very gentle compared to the onslaught Corbyn will face.
    And unlike the Mail's rather dodgy attack on Ed via his father's views....with Jezza they have a rammed packed virgin train full of stuff from his very own mouth.

    Plus, I doubt the BBC or Guardian are going to be interested in trying to be sympathetic to defending the Labour leader from the Mail being nasty.

    In fact what papers are going to back Labour this time? Morning Star and...?
    I can't see any of the major nationals backing Labour. Lib Dem's might get a bit of love, could see perhaps the Grauniad backing them.

    What worries me about the Lib Dems is Farron isn't exactly a charismatic figure (he's a fellow Blackburn Rovers fan so I have some time for him lol). Imagine if none of the Clegg history had happened and he was their leader now in this situation?

    It's clearly going to be an election with a large Brexit theme to it, where perhaps disgruntled remainers might vote differently. I just wonder deep down if a lot of people realise/accept that Brexit is happening and the Brexit effect might be overplayed here. People do have the capacity to move on.
    Certainly so. The Lib Dems must campaign as the party of Soft Brexit not the party of Stop Brexit. There is little appetite to block the process, but most remainers could back a Norway type model. That is how they can potentially draw in tory remainers as well, and maybe get them near 20% of the vote.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652

    I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.

    :)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    edited April 2017

    Because Labour are so obviously going to lose, there will not be any repeat of the SNP fears in England which worked against the LDs in 2015.

    That will help in a number of places. Plus the coalition years are ancient history now. I think, when looking at LD chances, it may actually be more useful to look at 2010 results, and work from there, rather than the outlier 2015 results. there may be a lot of reversion to the norm for their vote.

    Obviously not saying they will get 57 seats, but that looking at 2010 LD vote share is the best starting indication, not 2015 vote share.

    Absolutely agree; this is a point I have made before. Just as coalition government was exceptionally unusual for the UK, so was the immediately following GE. Anyone doing modelling or predictions would be very sensible to work from a 2010 base.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help but be a bit disappointed about this. A major part of TM's USP was that she was looking to deal with problems in the national interest. We have 23 months now to agree a deal with the EU and we are effectively not going to have a government for 3 of them? How is that in the national interest?

    I could understand the temptation of the polls and the desire for her own mandate but this seems a mistake to me and my guess is that it won't be quite the spectacular victory it looks like it should be right now.

    Hard to argue that Indyref2 is impossible during Brexit but a GE is.
    It is inevitable that the SNP will make Indyref2 a part of their manifesto. When they win 50 seats it is going to be impossible to resist. It probably was anyway in the longer run but May risks losing control of the timing here.
    be surprised if they end up as low as 50 David
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Mid-life crisis Mason thinks the UK will vote for a left wing coalition.

    LOL - what is he smoking?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    Cyan said:

    Theresa May says in her statement that she's calling a general election because of a) the SNP and b) the House of Lords. Apparently the "game-playing" will jeopardise the form that Brexit takes if she doesn't get a bigger Tory majority in the Commons.

    How awake does a person have to be to realise that her stated reason is a complete load of crap? Never mind that she lied in the past. She is lying now.

    A general election is unlikely to change the number of SNP MPs by much, and even if it did, so what? And it won't change the composition of either the Scottish Parliament or the House of Lords one iota. And she's got a majority at the moment. Only Tory MPs can get rid of that majority - by voting against her, by crossing the floor of the House, or by getting replaced in by-elections. None of those possibilities have anything whatsoever do with the SNP or the House of Lords.

    The Kremlin and the White House will love this general election. Europe is being destabilised.

    "Division in Westminster will risk our ability to make a success of Brexit". That's funny. I thought that division in Westminster was exactly how parliamentary democracy was meant to work.

    Wrong on both counts.

    If the SNP lose seats and vote share at the GE then it very much undermines their claims that the country is now more in favour of Independence than it was before the Brexit vote.

    And depending on what goes into the manifesto in terms of Brexit promises, the Lords will be in a very different position when it comes to blocking future legislation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,544

    I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.

    Good idea.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    So how long until the posters of Jezza "entertaining" the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah go up across the country? ;)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    One thing that all should agree on this forum - twitter/facebook are unlikely to be any sort of guide to the eventual result.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994
    "he's a fellow Blackburn Rovers fan" - gosh they have two!!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    Scott_P said:

    All the polling pundits across the News channels claiming the Tories will win a massive majority due to leadership and economic completence.

    When this election is only and all about Brexit...

    Another bad year for the pollsters I reckon.

    Dave who ?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2017
    What's the point of holding a by-election if the winning candidate won't be able to sit in the Commons?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,410

    Can we just get rid of Fix Term Act now, because it is clearly a total waste of time.

    As I have been banging on about for ages. It is the biggest load of b*llx in a long, long time, as was obvious from the moment Osborne dreamt it up. May has simply proved the case. Get rid of it.
    What it actually proves is that the "Leader" of the "Opposition" is an idiot. That's not guaranteed in all circumstances.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Could work my ring-wing friend. The NHS is in a shambles right now and to be honest, this is one of Labour's strong areas. Labour needs to put the focus on NHS, Education etc. and try to deflect attention from Corbyn.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    The busy life of a CLP Secretary. In the last 90 minutes I've:

    1. Looked at emergency CLP Exec / Campaign committee meetings in the next few days
    2. Fired out emails about candidate selection timetable / process
    3. Spoken to our campaign coordinator about how we tie a long campaign into the existing Mayoral campaign
    4. Started drafting the outlines of a leaflet we'd need to write/print/deliver before the formal short campaign starts in a few weeks
    5. Chatted to staffers in neighbouring seats about coordination of next steps
    6. Floated the idea to Mrs RP about me not going to her Mum's this weekend

    Oh, and I'm away on business on polling day and can't get out of it.

    Bloody election. A dictatorship would be better...

    Corbyn has to win an election first.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.
    What about his conduct to date leads you to believe that a GE loss will cause him to resign?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,774
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.

    Yep, I can't say I have a big problem with today's developments. Either Corbyn will resign on 9th June or he will be challenged and lose. I suspect it may be the latter.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.

    Come over to the Yellows, sandals are fine footwear!
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    AndyJS said:

    What's the point of holding a by-election if the winning candidate won't be able to sit in the Commons?

    Shaft Corbyn !
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    AndyJS said:

    What's the point of holding a by-election if the winning candidate won't be able to sit in the Commons?

    Happened at Liverpool Edge Hill a month before May 79 election.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.

    Yep, I can't say I have a big problem with today's developments. Either Corbyn will resign on 9th June or he will be challenged and lose. I suspect it may be the latter.

    Can Labour change leader between now and the 9th ?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.

    Good idea.
    Yep. I'll probably be voting LD in this election. Not because I think Farron is great, or even that I'm that pro-EU. But they are the only decent party on the left right now. I cannot vote for Corbyn.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,255

    Another point on the Lib Dems: they don't have the resources or troops to fight everywhere, having been so hollowed out 2 years ago.

    They might do very well off the back of the national campaign, though. Places like Bath and Twickenham will be very vulnerable to them.

    Strangely the Lib Dems have more resources now than 2 years ago . Membership up over 60% and finances pretty sound from what I hear.
    Paper membership is one thing. But they need the ground troops to fight all over the country to fully exploit it at Westminster.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited April 2017
    LOL...the backbencher who Jezza complained to the chief whip about is now on Daily Politics squirming. It is very funny.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,544

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.

    Yep, I can't say I have a big problem with today's developments. Either Corbyn will resign on 9th June or he will be challenged and lose. I suspect it may be the latter.

    He wont go imho. He will have to be challenged, because McD wants the nomination thing stitched up at conference.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Seven weeks to save the NHS!
    Putting 'Labour for NHS' or similar wank as the party name on the ballot papers could be a good move.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    murali_s said:

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Could work my ring-wing friend. The NHS is in a shambles right now and to be honest, this is one of Labour's strong areas. Labour needs to put the focus on NHS, Education etc. and try to deflect attention from Corbyn.
    Having Jezza delivering that message might be a tad of a problem.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,883
    FF43 said:

    Can we just get rid of Fix Term Act now, because it is clearly a total waste of time.

    As I have been banging on about for ages. It is the biggest load of b*llx in a long, long time, as was obvious from the moment Osborne dreamt it up. May has simply proved the case. Get rid of it.
    What it actually proves is that the "Leader" of the "Opposition" is an idiot. That's not guaranteed in all circumstances.
    Imagine what would have happened if May had made that statement and then Corbyn had immediately said he wasn't going to vote for it and told her to get on with the job? She would have been hugely weakened.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    calum said:

    Deafbloke said:

    calum said:

    FF43 said:

    Alistair said:

    So, wait, what if the SNP stand on a "Vote SNP for IndyRef2" platform and get 40+ MPs?

    Vote SNP for Indyref2 and against a hard Brexit. They will clean up Scottish seats on a FPTP basis and Theresa May will have quite a lot of trouble with it. The SNP can reasonably claim a mandate from the Scottish electorate for their Indyref stance, and do so much more easily than they could with a Holyrood election.
    As the Tories look likely to sweep to a 100+ seat majority - Scotland's voters minds will be focused by this !! - I think today's moves will only strengthen the case for an IndyRef2 sooner rather than later.
    So why aren't the SNP calling for one for June 8th? What is Sturgeon afraid of? Or are they not serious about independence?
    They are !!

    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/854285958535098369
    No mention of independence or another referendum in Sturgeon's tweet. Tired SLAB rhetoric from the SNP leader.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    SeanT said:

    Have there been any reactions from Euroland?

    Are they convinced yet that the UK has gone totally mad?

    You should be happy. This is your one democratic chance to reverse the Brexit vote.

    There is a national party dedicated to that: the Lib Dems (and the SNP in Scotland)

    The British have the option of saying Ooops, we don't want Brexit after all.

    But, of course, if the Brits vote for the pro-Brexit Tories, that's it. Brexit is certain, and you will accept it. Won't you?
    What about anti-Brexit Tories? Conservative candidates who campaign locally for Remain?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.

    Yep, I can't say I have a big problem with today's developments. Either Corbyn will resign on 9th June or he will be challenged and lose. I suspect it may be the latter.

    Can Labour change leader between now and the 9th ?
    Technically yes - if he decides he really can't stomach an election campaign, and quits of his own accord. Then Labour MPs can just nominate one candidate for the leadership (Yvette Cooper?), the NEC can massively shorten the usual timetable because of exceptional circumstances, new leader in place within days.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,264
    edited April 2017
    murali_s said:

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Could work my ring-wing friend. The NHS is in a shambles right now and to be honest, this is one of Labour's strong areas. Labour needs to put the focus on NHS, Education etc. and try to deflect attention from Corbyn.
    "...try to deflect attention from Corbyn...." Hmmmmm. Well, he may not be on much Labour election material. But every interviewer is going to ask him if he will resign if Labour loses. And at some point he will either a) rip an interviewer's head off or b) have a massive meltdown live on telly. Good luck keeping that out of the papers...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387
    New Labour leader in place by autumn conference?

    The trouble is, I don't think Jezza will actually step down even if we lose half our seats unless there is a deal to get his chosen successor on the ballot.

    (You know that deal, the one I have been wibbling about for the past year or more.)

    What will be interesting to see is how many Labour MPs jump before they are pushed - I see that Tom Blenkinsop is doing just that.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Another point on the Lib Dems: they don't have the resources or troops to fight everywhere, having been so hollowed out 2 years ago.

    They might do very well off the back of the national campaign, though. Places like Bath and Twickenham will be very vulnerable to them.

    Strangely the Lib Dems have more resources now than 2 years ago . Membership up over 60% and finances pretty sound from what I hear.
    Paper membership is one thing. But they need the ground troops to fight all over the country to fully exploit it at Westminster.
    New members have been busy for the councils, do not seem to just be keyboard warriors.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    AndyJS said:

    What's the point of holding a by-election if the winning candidate won't be able to sit in the Commons?

    It Happened in 1979, and 'tis the rules. Under our constitutional arrangements there is no rule that says the other rules have to make any sense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Popping to the shops to buy eggs is a vote on Scottish independence, everything is.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    Pulpstar said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.

    Yep, I can't say I have a big problem with today's developments. Either Corbyn will resign on 9th June or he will be challenged and lose. I suspect it may be the latter.

    Can Labour change leader between now and the 9th ?
    Nope.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited April 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.

    Yep, I can't say I have a big problem with today's developments. Either Corbyn will resign on 9th June or he will be challenged and lose. I suspect it may be the latter.

    Can Labour change leader between now and the 9th ?
    Unlikely, and would be pointless to try anyway. The Labour party base is so ridiculous that it will most likely need Labour to be decimated on June 8th in order to understand that the candidates that they like will simply consign Labour and the centre-left to utter irrelevance. On top of that they are many soft lefties/those on the right of party who genuinely don't want someone like Corbyn as PM.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. G, cheers for the polling figures from France.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    kle4 said:
    Wonder if it will bring Ruthie out of her bunker, she has been in hiding for some time now.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Labour might be able to make some political capital using the line ' She might be a Vicar's daughter but has now revealed herself to be a barefaced liar! ' I suspect it would be a message that could gain some traction.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Scott_P said:
    So Blair will campaign with the LDs then.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited April 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Do the Lib Dems want the war monger supporting them?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Floater said:

    Seems we have a self confessed liar as PM wanting to call an early GE for no reason other than party political advantage . What a partisan disgrace the Conservative party is .

    Says uber partisan Mark Senior

    I on the other hand can see several reasons for her doing this
    I can see the reasons too !! They are the same reasons that existed when May lied repeatedly months ago .
    Being charitable she may not have lied then, her intention may still have been not to hold one. However like you I am at a loss as to how her stated reasons explain this, since they existed back then.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Icarus said:

    "he's a fellow Blackburn Rovers fan" - gosh they have two!!

    lol, there are some of us still left. The Venky's haven't killed us all off.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    murali_s said:

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Could work my ring-wing friend. The NHS is in a shambles right now and to be honest, this is one of Labour's strong areas. Labour needs to put the focus on NHS, Education etc. and try to deflect attention from Corbyn.
    Labour need a big Red Bus to tour the country in pledging an extra £350 million per week to the NHS.

    Anyone know where one could be found?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    justin124 said:

    Labour might be able to make some political capital using the line ' She might be a Vicar's daughter but has now revealed herself to be a barefaced liar! ' I suspect it would be a message that could gain some traction.

    Be about accurate as your other predictions?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,264

    I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.

    Will Nick stand again?

    If not, best chance for the Tories to retake the seat in a generation...
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    I think it could be the moment that her mask slipped and begins to be seen as a cynical ,slippery politician no different to the likes of Cameron & Blair.

    Who won elections.

    I'm in agreement with Foxinox about INdyref - it cannot be the case that you can have a GE disrupt the negotiations but not an INdyref.

    Also agree that Corbyn is a decent performer in debates - he could surprise.

    May has done a poor job justifying this on the grounds of a changed situation, but that Corbyn has picked up the gauntlet nullifies the partisan accusation a little, though not completely.

    Also, is she advocating abolishing the Lords? She cited 'unelected' lords as a block on brexit causing difficulty, an election won't change that unless she is planning to do something with them.
    Salisbury convention means the unelected Lords won't vote down legislation included in the government's manifesto. Many of May's current proposals were not in the Conservative 2015 manifesto - e.g. leaving Single Market, Grammar schools.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.

    Good idea.
    Yep. I'll probably be voting LD in this election. Not because I think Farron is great, or even that I'm that pro-EU. But they are the only decent party on the left right now. I cannot vote for Corbyn.
    A tough choice for many. I still think 25% is the floor for Labour, as so many will not be able to let them be annihilated by the Tories.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited April 2017
    How is Tony Blair support of reversing Brexit getting on? I seemed to remember to seeing the polling now has more people support Brexit than before he got involved.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,883
    Floater said:
    He knows how to get under the skin of the Tory Brexiteers. That *will* help.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited April 2017
    Le Pen promised today to impose an immediate moratorium on immigration. That hasn't been in her programme before.

    Fillon says that that makes no sense, and that "What threatens us is not immigration, but the surrender of our values and our history. If we are proud of our history and defend it, then we will integrate foreigners more easily."

    Two men have been arrested in Marseilles, on suspicion of planning a terror attack during the election. As far as I know, they haven't been named yet. I doubt their surnames will be French. Fillon is trying to fight against xenophobia. It will be extremely tough for him to get more than 15%, "party machine" or no party machine. I doubt he will make the top three, let alone the top two.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387

    The busy life of a CLP Secretary. In the last 90 minutes I've:

    1. Looked at emergency CLP Exec / Campaign committee meetings in the next few days
    2. Fired out emails about candidate selection timetable / process
    3. Spoken to our campaign coordinator about how we tie a long campaign into the existing Mayoral campaign
    4. Started drafting the outlines of a leaflet we'd need to write/print/deliver before the formal short campaign starts in a few weeks
    5. Chatted to staffers in neighbouring seats about coordination of next steps
    6. Floated the idea to Mrs RP about me not going to her Mum's this weekend

    Oh, and I'm away on business on polling day and can't get out of it.

    Bloody election. A dictatorship would be better...

    Could be worse - you could be a newly appointed Corbynite CLP Secretary who hasn't got a clue what they are doing...
  • FF43 said:

    Can we just get rid of Fix Term Act now, because it is clearly a total waste of time.

    As I have been banging on about for ages. It is the biggest load of b*llx in a long, long time, as was obvious from the moment Osborne dreamt it up. May has simply proved the case. Get rid of it.
    What it actually proves is that the "Leader" of the "Opposition" is an idiot. That's not guaranteed in all circumstances.
    Imagine what would have happened if May had made that statement and then Corbyn had immediately said he wasn't going to vote for it and told her to get on with the job? She would have been hugely weakened.
    That would have been fabulous!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Pulpstar said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hampstead & Kilburn will be interesting. Tories haven't won it since 1987 (ignoring the boundary changes).

    They should walk it this time. The LDs will take a lot of Labour votes.

    You should be happy. Corbyn will go on June 9. Labour will return to its senses, albeit with 150 seats. The slow recovery can start.

    Yep, I can't say I have a big problem with today's developments. Either Corbyn will resign on 9th June or he will be challenged and lose. I suspect it may be the latter.

    Can Labour change leader between now and the 9th ?
    The Autralian Labor Party did that at beginning of 1983 when Malcolm Fraser called an early election. Bob Hawke won a big majority.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    Cyan said:

    Theresa May says in her statement that she's calling a general election because of a) the SNP and b) the House of Lords. Apparently the "game-playing" will jeopardise the form that Brexit takes if she doesn't get a bigger Tory majority in the Commons.

    How awake does a person have to be to realise that her stated reason is a complete load of crap? Never mind that she lied in the past. She is lying now.

    A general election is unlikely to change the number of SNP MPs by much, and even if it did, so what? And it won't change the composition of either the Scottish Parliament or the House of Lords one iota. And she's got a majority at the moment. Only Tory MPs can get rid of that majority - by voting against her, by crossing the floor of the House, or by getting replaced in by-elections. None of those possibilities have anything whatsoever do with the SNP or the House of Lords.

    The Kremlin and the White House will love this general election. Europe is being destabilised.

    "Division in Westminster will risk our ability to make a success of Brexit". That's funny. I thought that division in Westminster was exactly how parliamentary democracy was meant to work.

    Wrong on both counts.

    If the SNP lose seats and vote share at the GE then it very much undermines their claims that the country is now more in favour of Independence than it was before the Brexit vote.

    And depending on what goes into the manifesto in terms of Brexit promises, the Lords will be in a very different position when it comes to blocking future legislation.
    Hard to see the SNP losing vote share and doubtful even on seats, be few if any. Choice is vote hated nasty right wing Tory rule forever or vote SNP for a fairer Scotland. Easy choice.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Our GEs have generally been very presidential in the way they are run. Campaigning on certain issues like the NHS only works if voters trust the person leading your party to sort out those issues. That means that leaders need to have leadership skills - Corbyn doesn't. May isn't great but she will look great to voters when Corbyn is the alternative PM put up by Labour.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    I'm hoping for dramatic and massive gains across the SW for the LDs against the Tories - not because I care who rules the roost in local areas, but because it would be bloody funny for May to have called a GE, only then to see the Tories lose lots of local seats in the Tory shires and panic sweat a bit.
  • I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.

    Will Nick stand again?

    If not, best chance for the Tories to retake the seat in a generation...
    He was a broken man post May 2015 but he's got his passion back after Brexit.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    murali_s said:

    Jezza has just made a statement shown on Daily Politics....it was evil Tories ruined the NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS NHS...

    Could work my ring-wing friend. The NHS is in a shambles right now and to be honest, this is one of Labour's strong areas. Labour needs to put the focus on NHS, Education etc. and try to deflect attention from Corbyn.
    "...try to deflect attention from Corbyn...." Hmmmmm. Well, he may not be on much Labour election material. But every interviewer is going to ask him if he will resign if Labour loses. And at some point he will either a) rip an interviewer's head off or b) have a massive meltdown live on telly. Good luck keeping that out of the papers...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ipYmMt1i84

    Now that interviewers know that that kind of result is achievable, they would have to be saints not to be hoping to replicate it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,352

    Floater said:
    He knows how to get under the skin of the Tory Brexiteers. That *will* help.
    Will Lab be opposing Brexit? Where is the policy dice at present?

    Mr Blair campaigning for Tiny Tim. Hmmm.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    calum said:

    Deafbloke said:

    calum said:

    FF43 said:

    Alistair said:

    So, wait, what if the SNP stand on a "Vote SNP for IndyRef2" platform and get 40+ MPs?

    Vote SNP for Indyref2 and against a hard Brexit. They will clean up Scottish seats on a FPTP basis and Theresa May will have quite a lot of trouble with it. The SNP can reasonably claim a mandate from the Scottish electorate for their Indyref stance, and do so much more easily than they could with a Holyrood election.
    As the Tories look likely to sweep to a 100+ seat majority - Scotland's voters minds will be focused by this !! - I think today's moves will only strengthen the case for an IndyRef2 sooner rather than later.
    So why aren't the SNP calling for one for June 8th? What is Sturgeon afraid of? Or are they not serious about independence?
    They are !!

    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/854285958535098369
    No mention of independence or another referendum in Sturgeon's tweet. Tired SLAB rhetoric from the SNP leader.
    You cannot be as dim as you make out Monica
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    Any news on TV debates? I'm assuming they'll be off the table as there's no time to organize them? ;)
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited April 2017
    kle4 said:

    I think I might have to vote Lib Dem in Sheffield Hallam to stop a Corbynite MP being elected.

    Good idea.
    Yep. I'll probably be voting LD in this election. Not because I think Farron is great, or even that I'm that pro-EU. But they are the only decent party on the left right now. I cannot vote for Corbyn.
    A tough choice for many. I still think 25% is the floor for Labour, as so many will not be able to let them be annihilated by the Tories.

    I think Labour will go below 25%. Corbyn is so toxic that he'll really test the 25% floor.

    I think those who will find it difficult to pick who to vote for will be like me - those on the centre-left. Most other people will simply vote Tory, IMHO.
This discussion has been closed.