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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May breaks her word and calls an early general electio

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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    FF43 said:

    I cannot see how she will get it through on the FTPA.

    If Labour MPs agree half of them will lose their seats. Why would the Nats agree? They have been told that IndyRef2 is post Brexit so 2019 or 2022 depending.

    If she fails to get her election then SHE has to go. What an utter shambles it could all be.

    How many Labour MPs stand to lose their seats on current polling? I think a lot of them will be packing up and won't bother to stand. Would they rebel against their "leadership" and vote against the motion? I am not sure they have the energy for that.
    Awkward campaigning in an election you have unsuccessfully voted against happening.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    Where is Brillo?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    Can't help but be a bit disappointed about this. A major part of TM's USP was that she was looking to deal with problems in the national interest. We have 23 months now to agree a deal with the EU and we are effectively not going to have a government for 3 of them? How is that in the national interest?

    I could understand the temptation of the polls and the desire for her own mandate but this seems a mistake to me and my guess is that it won't be quite the spectacular victory it looks like it should be right now.

    Hard to argue that Indyref2 is impossible during Brexit but a GE is.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Lennon said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    It would make sense to move the local elections to 8th June to avoid a low turnout caused by people having to vote twice in a few weeks.

    Is that possible?
    I don't see how - the timetable has now already started and people have already been nominated and are actively campaigning
    Low turnout always helps Tories. This works in May's favour, she won't want to move the election date for the locals even if she could.
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    Robert - I think you mean NE Fife not Perth!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Well, 9 June is going to be one hell of a day on PB.

    Always really like the Canadian Grand Prix weekend.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    Chris_A said:

    What a great opportunity for lots more LibDems who will put the country first and not their party.

    This election is going to be about giving the Prime Minister a mandate to deliver the best deal for the UK in its negotiations with Brussels. The LibDems risk being painted in this election as the party of Rejoin. At best, they will be looking like they are chewing wasps, being an impediment to the best deal for Britain - and holding back the democratic will of the people.

    It might not play out as well as you hope....
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297

    Well, 9 June is going to be one hell of a day on PB.

    Always really like the Canadian Grand Prix weekend.

    Boom tish...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074

    Robert - I think you mean NE Fife not Perth!

    I do indeed. Thank you for your correction.
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    Farage to return I presume... what joy.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,148
    The Lib Dems should rule out a coalition with Corbyn immediately.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,680
    Clearly, May and her team have given this a lot of thought, and taken a lot of soundings.

    This achieves a lot for Theresa May, and for Labour, and for the Lib Dems:

    (1) It should rid Labour of the far Left, and Corbyn - even if they have to lose 50 extra MPs in the process, it allows their recovery to start three years earlier. At least they will survive. And a decent opposition comes forward. I will be watching to see what Ed Balls does now (he was in the Sunday Times, and I still have him at 66/1 to be next Labour leader)

    (2) It allows May to isolate the 20-30 tungsten-tipped Brexiteers in her own party, plus strengthen her own negotiating mandate, plus Salisbury-convention proof her new manifesto so the Lords can't vote down changes on grammar schools, international aid etc.

    (3) It allows Farron to make healthy gains at the expense of the Tories

    (4) It *should* weaken the SNP slightly in Scotland, given their moves on IndyRef2, and they will want to manifesto proof it anyway.

    I'd expect an early election to get at least 500 MPs in favour in the Commons tomorrow.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    JonathanD said:

    8th June means that students will not have gone home.

    Plenty of them will have. I remember finishing in may pretty much
    Yep, June 8th is middle to end of the exam period. Student numbers will be down.
    I just had a look through about a dozen universities exam timetables and they all end either 2nd or 9th June. so I suspect there will be very large numbers of students unclear as to where they will be on election day depending on when their last exam is.

    This boils down to 'it depends'.

    Our final exams are week ending 9th June, but the final years will be done and dusted by May 19. Somewhere like Oxford will have exams on for weeks - some finishing a week after the end of term, some over by Eights.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    Boulton saying on Sky News that as Corbyn is supporting May, this 'thereby' bypasses 'the fixed term parliament act.' ?????

    Poor way to put it. Meets the requirements of the FTPA more like.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,125
    FF43 said:
    The Tories little helpers
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,148

    Chris_A said:

    What a great opportunity for lots more LibDems who will put the country first and not their party.

    This election is going to be about giving the Prime Minister a mandate to deliver the best deal for the UK in its negotiations with Brussels. The LibDems risk being painted in this election as the party of Rejoin. At best, they will be looking like they are chewing wasps, being an impediment to the best deal for Britain - and holding back the democratic will of the people.

    It might not play out as well as you hope....
    The people who see it that way will be voting for Blukip anyway.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,501

    Danny565 said:

    I cannot see how she will get it through on the FTPA.

    If Labour MPs agree half of them will lose their seats. Why would the Nats agree? They have been told that IndyRef2 is post Brexit so 2019 or 2022 depending.

    If she fails to get her election then SHE has to go. What an utter shambles it could all be.

    Corbyn has just backed May's call for a GE. Laura K has tweeted that Labour will vote with the government. It's happening.
    Well, it doesn't necessarily mean his backbench MPs will follow suit.
    Yes, that's why I said Laura K tweeted that Labour will vote with government, as opposed to just Corbyn's statement. Plus, some of those who stand to lose out from an early GE simply won't stand, as we've seen already.
    One Lab MP with a very small majority has already said he will vote against. But with everyone else voting it through I expect he won't have a long queue in the lobby, and Labour being split on it would look worse than their voting against.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
    tlg86 said:

    Will we get tv debates?

    All parties consistently polling over 30% will be invited to participate in the debates.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    edited April 2017

    Farage to return I presume... what joy.

    Don't you mean....returns, fails to get elected for the 9th time and re-re-re-re-re-resigns?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Ms. Apocalypse, then Boulton[sp] is simply wrong. It's conforming with the Act, assuming the votes are there.

    Surprised he'd make such a basic error as that. The FTPA isn't about banning elections ahead of schedule, just making them more difficult.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So, did she lie to the house like David Cameron did or was this only in TV Interviews?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
    IanB2 said:

    Danny565 said:

    I cannot see how she will get it through on the FTPA.

    If Labour MPs agree half of them will lose their seats. Why would the Nats agree? They have been told that IndyRef2 is post Brexit so 2019 or 2022 depending.

    If she fails to get her election then SHE has to go. What an utter shambles it could all be.

    Corbyn has just backed May's call for a GE. Laura K has tweeted that Labour will vote with the government. It's happening.
    Well, it doesn't necessarily mean his backbench MPs will follow suit.
    Yes, that's why I said Laura K tweeted that Labour will vote with government, as opposed to just Corbyn's statement. Plus, some of those who stand to lose out from an early GE simply won't stand, as we've seen already.
    One Lab MP with a very small majority has already said he will vote against. But with everyone else voting it through I expect he won't have a long queue in the lobby, and Labour being split on it would look worse than their voting against.
    I think you might see a massive number of Labour abstentions... Maybe even enough.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    And there was me thinking that 2017 would be a thin year for political betting opportunities...
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    DavidL said:

    Can't help but be a bit disappointed about this. A major part of TM's USP was that she was looking to deal with problems in the national interest. We have 23 months now to agree a deal with the EU and we are effectively not going to have a government for 3 of them? How is that in the national interest?

    I could understand the temptation of the polls and the desire for her own mandate but this seems a mistake to me and my guess is that it won't be quite the spectacular victory it looks like it should be right now.

    Hard to argue that Indyref2 is impossible during Brexit but a GE is.
    Doubtless soon to be retconned as a cunning plan to fire up the SNP to shut out Labour.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    fitalass said:

    I cannot see how she will get it through on the FTPA.

    If Labour MPs agree half of them will lose their seats. Why would the Nats agree? They have been told that IndyRef2 is post Brexit so 2019 or 2022 depending.

    If she fails to get her election then SHE has to go. What an utter shambles it could all be.

    But May will have the backing of all her MPs, especially now as it puts the boundary changes on hold until another future GE? And she has totally pulled the rug from under Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP at Westminster. What are they going to do, vote to keep the current Tory Government insitu when they are trying to use the argument of continuing Tory Government at Westminster as a reason to vote Independence.

    I didn't see this coming, and I bet neither did Corbyn and his team, this is the last thing Corbyn wanted and he is going to struggle with this GE campaign. He was never planning to hang around long enough to lead Labour through one.
    Well then, why does he simply not say that this wrong during Brexit and instruct his MPs to vote against? That would leave May having to resign and the Tories in turmoil from which they would take months to recover.

    If Corbyn loses MPs and then fails to resign then Labour is finished.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    kle4 said:

    Boulton saying on Sky News that as Corbyn is supporting May, this 'thereby' bypasses 'the fixed term parliament act.' ?????

    Poor way to put it. Meets the requirements of the FTPA more like.
    That's what I thought. His phrasing was odd that's why I posted it on here.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,125

    DavidL said:

    Can't help but be a bit disappointed about this. A major part of TM's USP was that she was looking to deal with problems in the national interest. We have 23 months now to agree a deal with the EU and we are effectively not going to have a government for 3 of them? How is that in the national interest?

    I could understand the temptation of the polls and the desire for her own mandate but this seems a mistake to me and my guess is that it won't be quite the spectacular victory it looks like it should be right now.

    Hard to argue that Indyref2 is impossible during Brexit but a GE is.
    Hoist by her own petard methinks
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So, is TMay going to spell out Brexit negotiating terms then, otherwise what the heck are we voting for?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,680
    Also, the next parliament will conclude by June 2022. Just after the 3-year Brexit transition period has expired. And she can go into 2022GE with her quick wins and successes on it with a "job done".

    So politically and economically this protects her. The big risk is Indyref2.
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    This election is good news all round. Particular for Brexit negotiations – May will no longer be in truck to the frothing far right and will be able to deal sensibly.

    Meanwhile, Corbyn must be pressed on whether he will resign if defeated. If he says no to that question, he will look pathetic*

    *Even more so than usual
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Will the next GE still be in 2020?
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    DavidL said:

    Can't help but be a bit disappointed about this. A major part of TM's USP was that she was looking to deal with problems in the national interest. We have 23 months now to agree a deal with the EU and we are effectively not going to have a government for 3 of them? How is that in the national interest?

    I could understand the temptation of the polls and the desire for her own mandate but this seems a mistake to me and my guess is that it won't be quite the spectacular victory it looks like it should be right now.

    I told she was a pound shop Gordon Brown.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Alistair said:

    So, did she lie to the house like David Cameron did or was this only in TV Interviews?

    Have you considered the possibility that she changed her mind?
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Will we get tv debates?

    All parties consistently polling over 30% will be invited to participate in the debates.

    LOL
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help but be a bit disappointed about this. A major part of TM's USP was that she was looking to deal with problems in the national interest. We have 23 months now to agree a deal with the EU and we are effectively not going to have a government for 3 of them? How is that in the national interest?

    I could understand the temptation of the polls and the desire for her own mandate but this seems a mistake to me and my guess is that it won't be quite the spectacular victory it looks like it should be right now.

    Hard to argue that Indyref2 is impossible during Brexit but a GE is.
    Hoist by her own petard methinks
    Good point
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    Might be worth keeping an eye on how many Tory MPs stand down, especially the ones under expenses investigation.

    But if she gets a majority say north of fifty, it really doesn't matter if a couple end up having to walk the plank afterwards....
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tlg86 said:

    Will we get tv debates?

    Popcorn time!

    Corbyn is actually pretty good at these, having done a lot over the last 2 summers. It is one of his few strengths.

    Is NickP standing against Soubry in Broxtowe? Should be tasty...
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    Farage to return I presume... what joy.

    Don't you mean....returns, fails to get elected for the 9th time and re-re-re-re-re-resigns?
    Can Trump spare him?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Seems we have a self confessed liar as PM wanting to call an early GE for no reason other than party political advantage . What a partisan disgrace the Conservative party is .
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    calum said:

    Will the next GE still be in 2020?

    No
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    justin124 said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's done - Labour is backing it too

    Corbyn is. Wil Labour MPs?
    Why will the Labour MPs who do not support Corbyn follow him over this ? They could kill two birds with one stone.Stop a PM and LOTo and safe their own seat.
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    edited April 2017

    Clearly, May and her team have given this a lot of thought, and taken a lot of soundings.

    This achieves a lot for Theresa May, and for Labour, and for the Lib Dems:

    (1) It should rid Labour of the far Left, and Corbyn - even if they have to lose 50 extra MPs in the process, it allows their recovery to start three years earlier. At least they will survive. And a decent opposition comes forward. I will be watching to see what Ed Balls does now (he was in the Sunday Times, and I still have him at 66/1 to be next Labour leader)

    (2) It allows May to isolate the 20-30 tungsten-tipped Brexiteers in her own party, plus strengthen her own negotiating mandate, plus Salisbury-convention proof her new manifesto so the Lords can't vote down changes on grammar schools, international aid etc.

    (3) It allows Farron to make healthy gains at the expense of the Tories

    (4) It *should* weaken the SNP slightly in Scotland, given their moves on IndyRef2, and they will want to manifesto proof it anyway.

    I'd expect an early election to get at least 500 MPs in favour in the Commons tomorrow.

    Haven't checked recently but have the Conservatives been polling better in Scotland and Ruth is doing a good job there? SNP is still clearly the largest party there but could they have a couple of gains in Scotland?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    edited April 2017
    calum said:

    Will the next GE still be in 2020?

    Sky bods said they thought May's plan is next GE 2022 when Brexit is ideally agreed with most likely a 2-3 year transition period.

    But then this is Sky who had Billy Bunter speculating May was stepping down for health reasons....
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I think it could be the moment that her mask slipped and begins to be seen as a cynical ,slippery politician no different to the likes of Cameron & Blair.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Alistair said:

    So, is TMay going to spell out Brexit negotiating terms then, otherwise what the heck are we voting for?

    You are voting to show your trust in May.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So, wait, what if the SNP stand on a "Vote SNP for IndyRef2" platform and get 40+ MPs?
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    I reckon that this could be a big breakthrough for the Lib Dems if Labour continue to support Brexit, as then the 'Inners' will only have one way to go. For what it is worth a know more than a few Tories that will probably hold their nose and vote Lib Dem to abort Brexit.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074

    JonathanD said:

    8th June means that students will not have gone home.

    Plenty of them will have. I remember finishing in may pretty much
    Yep, June 8th is middle to end of the exam period. Student numbers will be down.
    I just had a look through about a dozen universities exam timetables and they all end either 2nd or 9th June. so I suspect there will be very large numbers of students unclear as to where they will be on election day depending on when their last exam is.

    This boils down to 'it depends'.

    Our final exams are week ending 9th June, but the final years will be done and dusted by May 19. Somewhere like Oxford will have exams on for weeks - some finishing a week after the end of term, some over by Eights.
    As an aside, I would have thought this probably means there'll be a massive number of postals in University seats... if anyone is very well organised.
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    No Gorton by election. A real pity.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    It's just sunk in, we are going to see a general election manifesto from Corbyn and his ilk. I can't wait to get a copy of that.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    edited April 2017
    bobajobPB said:

    This election is good news all round. Particular for Brexit negotiations – May will no longer be in truck to the frothing far right and will be able to deal sensibly.

    Meanwhile, Corbyn must be pressed on whether he will resign if defeated. If he says no to that question, he will look pathetic*

    *Even more so than usual

    The question is will you manage to keep your PB password safe and sound for the next 7 weeks ;-)
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    The election could be in the middle of the honeymoon for President Macron. Perhaps a boost to the Lib Dem campaign.

    The election could be in the middle of the honeymoon for President Macron. Perhaps a boost to the Lib Dem campaign.

    ha ha - good one - keep em coming.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    justin124 said:

    I think it could be the moment that her mask slipped and begins to be seen as a cynical ,slippery politician no different to the likes of Cameron & Blair.

    You really are sounding desperate today Short Straws.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    I wonder if TM has ever played poker?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,142
    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    It's the Smithson, Junior forecasts for the LibDem prospects on June 9th.

    I believe the LibDems will get between 12% and 15% of the Great British (ex NI) vote.
    I believe the LibDems will win between 12 and 16 seats.

    Gains from Labour:

    Cambridge
    and maybe something odd and very Remain-y - Southwark, Hornsey & Wood Green or Bristol West

    Gains from the SNP:

    Perth Fife NE
    Edinburgh West

    Gains from the Conservatives:

    Twickenham
    Kingston & Surbiton
    Bath

    Possibly one or two of the wealthy, pro-Remain constituencies in the South of the Country.

    I think there is only a 30-40% chance that Sarah Olney holds Richmond.
    But I think there is a good chance that Manchester Gorton (if the by-election now happens) goes LD and stays that way.

    You mean Fife NE.

    I think the LibDems will have a chance in East Dunbartonshire.

    And you're back to thinking the LibDems will win Kingston ??

    I'd expect one or two 'surprise' LibDem wins somewhere unexpected - maybe on below 30% of the vote.

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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,924
    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: labour will vote with govt tmrw to hold general election

    Come on men! Over the top! :smiley:
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    bobajobPB said:

    This election is good news all round. Particular for Brexit negotiations – May will no longer be in truck to the frothing far right and will be able to deal sensibly.

    Meanwhile, Corbyn must be pressed on whether he will resign if defeated. If he says no to that question, he will look pathetic*

    *Even more so than usual

    The question is will you manage to keep your PB password safe and sound for the next 7 weeks ;-)
    Even more unlikely that Corbyn winning on 8 June.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,680
    jonny83 said:

    Clearly, May and her team have given this a lot of thought, and taken a lot of soundings.

    This achieves a lot for Theresa May, and for Labour, and for the Lib Dems:

    (1) It should rid Labour of the far Left, and Corbyn - even if they have to lose 50 extra MPs in the process, it allows their recovery to start three years earlier. At least they will survive. And a decent opposition comes forward. I will be watching to see what Ed Balls does now (he was in the Sunday Times, and I still have him at 66/1 to be next Labour leader)

    (2) It allows May to isolate the 20-30 tungsten-tipped Brexiteers in her own party, plus strengthen her own negotiating mandate, plus Salisbury-convention proof her new manifesto so the Lords can't vote down changes on grammar schools, international aid etc.

    (3) It allows Farron to make healthy gains at the expense of the Tories

    (4) It *should* weaken the SNP slightly in Scotland, given their moves on IndyRef2, and they will want to manifesto proof it anyway.

    I'd expect an early election to get at least 500 MPs in favour in the Commons tomorrow.

    Haven't checked recently but have the Conservatives been polling better in Scotland and Ruth is doing a good job there? SNP is still clearly the largest party there but could they have a couple of gains in Scotland?
    I can't see the SNP losing more than about 6-9 seats at present, but I am guessing.

    They will of course argue that's a mandate for Indyref too.

    I need to do more analysis first. If Unionists have any sense they will unite around whoever is best placed to defeat the SNP, but I fear SLAB are so tarnished that very few will unite around them.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,501

    Chris_A said:

    What a great opportunity for lots more LibDems who will put the country first and not their party.

    This election is going to be about giving the Prime Minister a mandate to deliver the best deal for the UK in its negotiations with Brussels. The LibDems risk being painted in this election as the party of Rejoin. At best, they will be looking like they are chewing wasps, being an impediment to the best deal for Britain - and holding back the democratic will of the people.

    It might not play out as well as you hope....
    It will hang on how soon it becomes clear that Labour is out of the race. I always believed that another week in 1983 would have seen Labour in third place, in terms of votes, but the hints of a possible crossover only came in the actual week of the election, too late to get real momentum going. I think the longer campaign, which effectively starts now, will help the LibDems. At the least all the parties have a few weeks to do all the admin - selections, leaflet design, etc. - so that, unlike a 'normal' snap election, everyone will be ready when the full campaign comes.

    Under the new election expenses rules there is nothing stopping parties spending by starting to campaign right away, because of the defined short campaign period during which the real limits come into force.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    edited April 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    JonathanD said:

    8th June means that students will not have gone home.

    Plenty of them will have. I remember finishing in may pretty much
    Yep, June 8th is middle to end of the exam period. Student numbers will be down.
    I just had a look through about a dozen universities exam timetables and they all end either 2nd or 9th June. so I suspect there will be very large numbers of students unclear as to where they will be on election day depending on when their last exam is.

    This boils down to 'it depends'.

    Our final exams are week ending 9th June, but the final years will be done and dusted by May 19. Somewhere like Oxford will have exams on for weeks - some finishing a week after the end of term, some over by Eights.
    As an aside, I would have thought this probably means there'll be a massive number of postals in University seats... if anyone is very well organised.
    Students...organized....ROFL....They were given months notice for the Brexit vote and didn't manage to get sorted on time (and Cameron had the cynical extension to registration).
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    bobajobPB said:

    This election is good news all round. Particular for Brexit negotiations – May will no longer be in truck to the frothing far right and will be able to deal sensibly.

    Meanwhile, Corbyn must be pressed on whether he will resign if defeated. If he says no to that question, he will look pathetic*

    *Even more so than usual

    The question is will you manage to keep your PB password safe and sound for the next 7 weeks ;-)

    Even more unlikely than Corbyn winning on 8 June.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
    jonny83 said:

    Clearly, May and her team have given this a lot of thought, and taken a lot of soundings.

    This achieves a lot for Theresa May, and for Labour, and for the Lib Dems:

    (1) It should rid Labour of the far Left, and Corbyn - even if they have to lose 50 extra MPs in the process, it allows their recovery to start three years earlier. At least they will survive. And a decent opposition comes forward. I will be watching to see what Ed Balls does now (he was in the Sunday Times, and I still have him at 66/1 to be next Labour leader)

    (2) It allows May to isolate the 20-30 tungsten-tipped Brexiteers in her own party, plus strengthen her own negotiating mandate, plus Salisbury-convention proof her new manifesto so the Lords can't vote down changes on grammar schools, international aid etc.

    (3) It allows Farron to make healthy gains at the expense of the Tories

    (4) It *should* weaken the SNP slightly in Scotland, given their moves on IndyRef2, and they will want to manifesto proof it anyway.

    I'd expect an early election to get at least 500 MPs in favour in the Commons tomorrow.

    Haven't checked recently but have the Conservatives been polling better in Scotland and Ruth is doing a good job there? SNP is still clearly the largest party there but could they have a couple of gains in Scotland?
    The Conservatives should probably gain two in Scotland.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited April 2017
    bobajobPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help but be a bit disappointed about this. A major part of TM's USP was that she was looking to deal with problems in the national interest. We have 23 months now to agree a deal with the EU and we are effectively not going to have a government for 3 of them? How is that in the national interest?

    I could understand the temptation of the polls and the desire for her own mandate but this seems a mistake to me and my guess is that it won't be quite the spectacular victory it looks like it should be right now.

    Hard to argue that Indyref2 is impossible during Brexit but a GE is.
    Hoist by her own petard methinks
    Good point
    No, Indyref2 could result in the complete change of the parameters of the negotiation, a GE just changes or clarifies who is carrying out the negotiations.

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    So we could have a Labour leadership election for the third year in a row.

    How exciting.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    And there was me thinking that 2017 would be a thin year for political betting opportunities...

    How much will you make on the 22-way dead heat for first minister out of the cabinet?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    No Gorton by election. A real pity.

    I'm cashed out on these markets with Betfair at a small profit.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    I think it could be the moment that her mask slipped and begins to be seen as a cynical ,slippery politician no different to the likes of Cameron & Blair.

    You really are sounding desperate today Short Straws.
    Far from it!
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Local elections going ahead apparently.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Has Corbyn been seen on live TV yet?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Of course, someone who had planned some sort of political book which was being delayed by things which are completely beyond his control might be less than thrilled at the sudden turn of events.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    edited April 2017
    IDS doing the media rounds spinning for May...weird...
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited April 2017
    ICM / Grauniad

    Conservatives: 44% (up 1)
    Labour: 26% (up 1)
    Ukip: 11% (no change)
    Lib Dems: 10% (down 1)
    Greens: 4% (no change)

    Conservative lead: 18 points (no change)
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,924

    Seems we have a self confessed liar as PM wanting to call an early GE for no reason other than party political advantage . What a partisan disgrace the Conservative party is .

    She's seeking democratic mandate from the public. I'd have thought you, as a Liberal Demorcrat, would agree.

    And look at it this way. You now have one last opportunity to stop Brexit! Put your case before the country and if the Lib-Dems win a majority we could actually stay in the EU! :open_mouth:
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Pulpstar said:

    No Gorton by election. A real pity.

    I'm cashed out on these markets with Betfair at a small profit.
    Bad news for the lib dems. They would have had better chance in a by-election than a GE.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,501
    By luck rather than judgement, my positions were already on the stock market sinking and the pound strengthening, so everything is looking very blue right now. Pun intended.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    edited April 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    Has Corbyn been seen on live TV yet?

    Is he not taking the rest of the day off after having an early start to do GMTV (or whatever that shit show hosted by Piers Morgan is called these days)?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,805
    Alistair said:

    So, wait, what if the SNP stand on a "Vote SNP for IndyRef2" platform and get 40+ MPs?

    Vote SNP for Indyref2 and against a hard Brexit. They will clean up Scottish seats on a FPTP basis and Theresa May will have quite a lot of trouble with it. The SNP can reasonably claim a mandate from the Scottish electorate for their Indyref stance, and do so much more easily than they could with a Holyrood election.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    May needs 434 MPs. Conservative MPs will vote for it - that's 330. That means she needs an extra 104 MPs. LDs will vote for it, though they are only 8 MPs - meaning May needs 96 more MPs to vote for it. It looks like the SNP will vote for an early GE - there's 54 SNP MPs - meaning May needs only 42 Labour MPs to vote for a GE. Stephen Kinnock is on Sky now, looks like he's voting for a GE.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    So we could have a Labour leadership election for the third year in a row.

    How exciting.

    The added interest is that it will be only the few survivors of the apocalypse who can stand!
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    AndyJS said:

    Local elections going ahead apparently.

    No reason why they would not.1983 , 1987 and 1970 are precedents for the Local elections in May followed by a General Election a month later.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited April 2017
    Does someone here know whether the French president can invoke Article 13 of the NATO treaty and withdraw France from NATO? (That's what Mélenchon promises.)

    Then there's the question of whether the president can pull France out of the NATO command structure. (That's what Le Pen and Dupont-Aignan promise.)

    I've read what it says in the constitution: the president makes and ratifies treaties, but there needs to be a law for him to do so. There are various legal questions. 1) What about doing something a treaty provides for France being able to do? 2) What if the treaty was ratified before the Fifth Republic existed? 3) Would a law be needed?

    Wikipedia isn't much help, so puh-lease! :)
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    DavidL said:

    Can't help but be a bit disappointed about this. A major part of TM's USP was that she was looking to deal with problems in the national interest. We have 23 months now to agree a deal with the EU and we are effectively not going to have a government for 3 of them? How is that in the national interest?

    I could understand the temptation of the polls and the desire for her own mandate but this seems a mistake to me and my guess is that it won't be quite the spectacular victory it looks like it should be right now.

    I told she was a pound shop Gordon Brown.
    How? Brown bottled the election, she went for it.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    edited April 2017

    Seems we have a self confessed liar as PM wanting to call an early GE for no reason other than party political advantage . What a partisan disgrace the Conservative party is .

    Indeed! Let's hope that this gets exposed in the campaign. I somehow doubt it as the press and the establishment in general are controlled by the Tories - we really are in banana republic one party state territory.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2017
    Greens must fancy their chances in Bristol West.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    All the polling pundits across the News channels claiming the Tories will win a massive majority due to leadership and economic completence.

    When this election is only and all about Brexit...

    Another bad year for the pollsters I reckon.
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    bobajobPB said:

    This election is good news all round. Particular for Brexit negotiations – May will no longer be in truck to the frothing far right and will be able to deal sensibly.

    Meanwhile, Corbyn must be pressed on whether he will resign if defeated. If he says no to that question, he will look pathetic*

    *Even more so than usual

    My heart sinks at the thought of Corbyn "fighting" the election. Not just because of him and his lack of nous and oomph and skills, but because the media will make it about him and will drone on endlessly about how bad he is and how left-wing he is and how people don't rate him and whether he'll resign. I'm dreading it. It was bad enough with Miliband.

    Which reminds me, Labour showed a distinct lack of balls at the last election. Will they manage to correct this in the next few weeks? I doubt it.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,997

    Seems we have a self confessed liar as PM wanting to call an early GE for no reason other than party political advantage . What a partisan disgrace the Conservative party is .

    Here's your opportunity to defeat Brexit.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    JonathanD said:

    Alistair said:

    So, is TMay going to spell out Brexit negotiating terms then, otherwise what the heck are we voting for?

    You are voting to show your trust in May.
    Which must scare the other parties shitless....
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074

    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    It's the Smithson, Junior forecasts for the LibDem prospects on June 9th.

    I believe the LibDems will get between 12% and 15% of the Great British (ex NI) vote.
    I believe the LibDems will win between 12 and 16 seats.

    Gains from Labour:

    Cambridge
    and maybe something odd and very Remain-y - Southwark, Hornsey & Wood Green or Bristol West

    Gains from the SNP:

    Perth Fife NE
    Edinburgh West

    Gains from the Conservatives:

    Twickenham
    Kingston & Surbiton
    Bath

    Possibly one or two of the wealthy, pro-Remain constituencies in the South of the Country.

    I think there is only a 30-40% chance that Sarah Olney holds Richmond.
    But I think there is a good chance that Manchester Gorton (if the by-election now happens) goes LD and stays that way.

    You mean Fife NE.

    I think the LibDems will have a chance in East Dunbartonshire.

    And you're back to thinking the LibDems will win Kingston ??

    I'd expect one or two 'surprise' LibDem wins somewhere unexpected - maybe on below 30% of the vote.

    I think you're right that there's a good chance - a la Solihull - of a couple of low vote share wins for the LDs.

    Re Kingston: I think James Berry is a pretty uninspiring candidate, and the LDs have really got their shit together there. While it's not as pro-Remain as Richmond, it is still over 55% Remain, and there's a big Labour plus Green vote (19% of the total) to squeeze. I'd reckon that - so long as the Libs get 14 or 15% nationwide - they will probably squeak it.
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,736

    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    It's the Smithson, Junior forecasts for the LibDem prospects on June 9th.

    I believe the LibDems will get between 12% and 15% of the Great British (ex NI) vote.
    I believe the LibDems will win between 12 and 16 seats.

    Gains from Labour:

    Cambridge
    and maybe something odd and very Remain-y - Southwark, Hornsey & Wood Green or Bristol West

    Gains from the SNP:

    Perth Fife NE
    Edinburgh West

    Gains from the Conservatives:

    Twickenham
    Kingston & Surbiton
    Bath

    Possibly one or two of the wealthy, pro-Remain constituencies in the South of the Country.

    I think there is only a 30-40% chance that Sarah Olney holds Richmond.
    But I think there is a good chance that Manchester Gorton (if the by-election now happens) goes LD and stays that way.

    You mean Fife NE.

    I think the LibDems will have a chance in East Dunbartonshire.

    And you're back to thinking the LibDems will win Kingston ??

    I'd expect one or two 'surprise' LibDem wins somewhere unexpected - maybe on below 30% of the vote.

    I thought the Lib Dems might get one or two of the other 'historic' South-West seats as well. one of the Cornwall, Yeovil, Devon North or Wells.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,297
    edited April 2017
    AndyJS said:

    Greens must fancy their chances in Bristol West.

    Nahhhh....Corbyn is actually popular there. It is like a mini Islington these days.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Ladbrokes has a couple of markets up. Backed UKIP to be under 10% of votes, at 1.66.

    Not sure about Lib Dems 10-20% at 1.72. Worried they may exceed that (20%+ is 4).
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,408
    Ishmael_Z said:

    It's my girlfriend's birthday on June 8th.

    #IHateTheresaMay

    What? GE day itself is the quietest day in the entire political cycle.
    Not at all. Polling is brisk, apparently. A word that would practically fall into desuetude if it was not for election days.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,142

    So we could have a Labour leadership election for the third year in a row.

    How exciting.

    The added interest is that it will be only the few survivors of the apocalypse who can stand!
    I think John McDonnell is pretty safe.

    And Diane Abbott.

    And Emily Thornberry.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Scott_P said:
    Well, exactly. This is why a lot of Labour MPs will vote with the government tomorrow - better to get kicked out by their constituents than Corbyn's de-selection agenda in order to fill the party with hard left lunatics.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078
    justin124 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Local elections going ahead apparently.

    No reason why they would not.1983 , 1987 and 1970 are precedents for the Local elections in May followed by a General Election a month later.
    Did someone say the Gorton by-election’s been called off. Surely the writ has been moved.
This discussion has been closed.