@TheWhiteRabbit England's Glory Matches made by Morelands of Gloucester, later owned by Bryant & May. Boat based on HMS Devastation. The brand is currently owned by Swedish Match.
I liked the playing on words, and use of images. In any case my father took me on visits to inspect the factory.
I've not seen them for years. As I recall, England's Glory were the ones we prized as kids as they were non-safety matches - you could strike them on anything (weirdly by dragging them over a pane of glass). They also had the best box and vivid red tips.
It would be quite interesting and informative to see how many of Labours 2015 GE voters live in the constituencies of the dissenters against Jez's three line whip.
They had 9.3m votes. 2.8 m were in London, Scotland and Wales - which suggests that 6.5m were in other bits of England.
The Tories had about 2m across London, Scotland and Wales - but over 9m in England.
UKIP only had 540k out of 3.9m - leaving roughly 3.4m in England.
Politically I think Corbyn has made a big mistake with his support for A50. He has alienated the overwhelming majority of his own supporters - the most intense supporters of the EU. He won't gain more voters from now-kippers. They won't just say "oh he supports brexit so never mind the wage caps, the IRA, Hamas, etc etc etc" and go back to him. He's weakened his own position in the party considerably for no electoral gain.
To be clear I support the voting in favour of A50, but think as far as internal party politics go it was a mistake for him.
I actually think tonight demonstrates that he thinks he'll be leading Labour into the next election.
It was the first time I've seen him make a decision based on electoral maths.
Isn't it more likely to have been a matter of principle? Mr Corbyn seemed to be merely 'willing to keep his mouth shut' during the campaign, rather than actively supporting Remain.
The beginning of the end of his leadership? Finally! We've been on many a false beginning of the beginning of the end of his leadership up to this point, if that makes sense.
Sooner or later, someone will work out what type of Labour members these mostly are/were: supporters of Mr Corbyn, or supporters of a more traditional Labour approach. If the latter - people for whom this is the last straw - then Labour's left wing is strengthened even more.
I am sort of thinking that ed Milibands obvious manoeuvres are aimed at a breakaway real Labour party in the event of by election disaster later this month. I can't believe he fancies another shot at leadership for himself, but he might be contemplating eminence grise status in a new party.
Yes, that's a reasonable conclusion to draw. There's something up.
Miliband has a massively leave voting constituency. If he wants to set up a Pro-Europe Labour, he'll need to find a new seat.
I think you underestimate how much currency 'they lied to you' will have over the next few years.
It already has - back of the queue, immediate recession, WW3......
Does anybody use matches anymore? If I need a flame I have one of those clicky wands things.
I have about a million fully operational lighters in the house from when I used to smoke regularly. I also have the regulation box of Cook's Matches in the cutlery drawer but come to think of it I don't think I have ever used them.
The beginning of the end of his leadership? Finally! We've been on many a false beginning of the beginning of the end of his leadership up to this point, if that makes sense.
Sooner or later, someone will work out what type of Labour members these mostly are/were: supporters of Mr Corbyn, or supporters of a more traditional Labour approach. If the latter - people for whom this is the last straw - then Labour's left wing is strengthened even more.
I am sort of thinking that ed Milibands obvious manoeuvres are aimed at a breakaway real Labour party in the event of by election disaster later this month. I can't believe he fancies another shot at leadership for himself, but he might be contemplating eminence grise status in a new party.
Yes, that's a reasonable conclusion to draw. There's something up.
Miliband has a massively leave voting constituency. If he wants to set up a Pro-Europe Labour, he'll need to find a new seat.
I think you underestimate how much currency 'they lied to you' will have over the next few years.
Lots and lots of lovely lies by your side to be revealed first I rather feel.
@TheWhiteRabbit England's Glory Matches made by Morelands of Gloucester, later owned by Bryant & May. Boat based on HMS Devastation. The brand is currently owned by Swedish Match.
I liked the playing on words, and use of images. In any case my father took me on visits to inspect the factory.
I've not seen them for years. As I recall, England's Glory were the ones we prized as kids as they were non-safety matches - you could strike them on anything (weirdly by dragging them over a pane of glass). They also had the best box and vivid red tips.
Don't forget the jokes on the other side, selected by The Moreland brothers.
Times reporting Tory backbenchers are threatening to cause trouble if May doesn't guarantee certain things e.g EU citizens to stay.
Mrs May has already made it clear that is her wish, provided the EU reciprocate. It's hard to believe these MPs could be so stupid as to give the EU such a hostage. I wonder what they're really aiming at?
The beginning of the end of his leadership? Finally! We've been on many a false beginning of the beginning of the end of his leadership up to this point, if that makes sense.
I'll believe it when I see it!
Well we all know the moral of the boy who cried wolf - eventually the wolf shows up, and we should have listened to them.
@TheWhiteRabbit England's Glory Matches made by Morelands of Gloucester, later owned by Bryant & May. Boat based on HMS Devastation. The brand is currently owned by Swedish Match.
I liked the playing on words, and use of images. In any case my father took me on visits to inspect the factory.
I've not seen them for years. As I recall, England's Glory were the ones we prized as kids as they were non-safety matches - you could strike them on anything (weirdly by dragging them over a pane of glass). They also had the best box and vivid red tips.
Don't forget the jokes on the other side, selected by The Moreland brothers.
Sooner or later, someone will work out what type of Labour members these mostly are/were: supporters of Mr Corbyn, or supporters of a more traditional Labour approach. If the latter - people for whom this is the last straw - then Labour's left wing is strengthened even more.
I am sort of thinking that ed Milibands obvious manoeuvres are aimed at a breakaway real Labour party in the event of by election disaster later this month. I can't believe he fancies another shot at leadership for himself, but he might be contemplating eminence grise status in a new party.
Yes, that's a reasonable conclusion to draw. There's something up.
Miliband has a massively leave voting constituency. If he wants to set up a Pro-Europe Labour, he'll need to find a new seat.
I think you underestimate how much currency 'they lied to you' will have over the next few years.
Lots and lots of lovely lies by your side to be revealed first I rather feel.
My side wasn't represented in the referendum campaign. Cameron's platform was half-out, never join the Euro, keep our distance.
Sooner or later, someone will work out what type of Labour members these mostly are/were: supporters of Mr Corbyn, or supporters of a more traditional Labour approach. If the latter - people for whom this is the last straw - then Labour's left wing is strengthened even more.
I am sort of thinking that ed Milibands obvious manoeuvres are aimed at a breakaway real Labour party in the event of by election disaster later this month. I can't believe he fancies another shot at leadership for himself, but he might be contemplating eminence grise status in a new party.
Yes, that's a reasonable conclusion to draw. There's something up.
Miliband has a massively leave voting constituency. If he wants to set up a Pro-Europe Labour, he'll need to find a new seat.
I think you underestimate how much currency 'they lied to you' will have over the next few years.
Thank god remain didn't have to lie and set out a positive vision for remaining.
Times reporting Tory backbenchers are threatening to cause trouble if May doesn't guarantee certain things e.g EU citizens to stay.
Mr May has already made it clear that is her wish, provided the EU reciprocate. It's hard to believe these MPs could be so stupid as to give the EU such a hostage. I wonder what they're really aiming at?
The beginning of the end of his leadership? Finally! We've been on many a false beginning of the beginning of the end of his leadership up to this point, if that makes sense.
I'll believe it when I see it!
Well we all know the moral of the boy who cried wolf - eventually the wolf shows up, and we should have listened to them.
Who is the wolf in this scenario? You, John Rentoul or Clive Lewis?
Times reporting Tory backbenchers are threatening to cause trouble if May doesn't guarantee certain things e.g EU citizens to stay.
Mr May has already made it clear that is her wish, provided the EU reciprocate. It's hard to believe these MPs could be so stupid as to give the EU such a hostage. I wonder what they're really aiming at?
Indeed. I feel a little sorry for him - if he sacks them, he is surely genuinely going to fill the shadow cabinet given the number who have refused to serve in it or been previously sacked/resigned, but even if he comes up with some pablum about why, in this instance, its ok the frontbench did not follow the whip because its oh so unique situation, that would be such nonsense. Even if that were justified, in that case they should never have whipped in the first place, and if there are exceptions to when defying the whip from the frontbench has consequences, what's the bloody point of having any whip at all?
Of course, fundamentally he is unable to tell people they must follow a directive from the leadership, so my sympathy only goes so far.
Sooner or later, someone will work out what type of Labour members these mostly are/were: supporters of Mr Corbyn, or supporters of a more traditional Labour approach. If the latter - people for whom this is the last straw - then Labour's left wing is strengthened even more.
I am sort of thinking that ed Milibands obvious manoeuvres are aimed at a breakaway real Labour party in the event of by election disaster later this month. I can't believe he fancies another shot at leadership for himself, but he might be contemplating eminence grise status in a new party.
Ed is the only MP in Labour who owns a Grey Suit....
The beginning of the end of his leadership? Finally! We've been on many a false beginning of the beginning of the end of his leadership up to this point, if that makes sense.
I'll believe it when I see it!
Well we all know the moral of the boy who cried wolf - eventually the wolf shows up, and we should have listened to them.
Who is the wolf in this scenario? You, John Rentoul or Clive Lewis?
Rentoul and the 'beginning of the end'-ers. Hey, no matter when it is one day he'll go, and I'm sure if they want they can trace it back to this beginning (others will draw the beginning of the end as when he declared his candidacy).
Indeed. I feel a little sorry for him - if he sacks them, he is surely genuinely going to fill the shadow cabinet given the number who have refused to serve in it or been previously sacked/resigned, but even if he comes up with some pablum about why, in this instance, its ok the frontbench did not follow the whip because its oh so unique situation, that would be such nonsense. Even if that were justified, in that case they should never have whipped in the first place, and if there are exceptions to when defying the whip from the frontbench has consequences, what's the bloody point of having any whip at all?
Of course, fundamentally he is unable to tell people they must follow a directive from the leadership, so my sympathy only goes so far.
It was his cretinous decision to attempt a three-line whip that got him into this mess: your sympathy goes way too far.
I think actually think it's just that some PBers have sympathy/share the views of the religious right - I mean comparing abortion to infantacide?! .
Dear Ms Apocalypse, please grow up. You say some very sensible things, but some very, very silly things...
Part of growing up is to be able to distinguish someone explaining a third party's views, from someone sharing those views. And yes, of course, abortion and infanticide are morally indistinguishable if you start from the premise that the unborn child is a person exactly like the newly-born child.
There you are. Two separate concepts for you to try to understand. For the avoidance of doubt - this shouldn't need saying, but clearly does - I have said nothing whatsoever about what my views on this matter are, except that I don't think the viability of the foetus outside the womb is terribly relevant to question of the time limits for abortion.
The beginning of the end of his leadership? Finally! We've been on many a false beginning of the beginning of the end of his leadership up to this point, if that makes sense.
I'll believe it when I see it!
Well we all know the moral of the boy who cried wolf - eventually the wolf shows up, and we should have listened to them.
Who is the wolf in this scenario? You, John Rentoul or Clive Lewis?
Rentoul and the 'beginning of the end'-ers. Hey, no matter when it is one day he'll go, and I'm sure if they want they can trace it back to this beginning (others will draw the beginning of the end as when he declared his candidacy).
In 2030 when Labour has one MP, him, and he retires as leader, they will declare the day he joshed with Iain Dale on Dale's radio show about standing as the "beginning of the end".
Times reporting Tory backbenchers are threatening to cause trouble if May doesn't guarantee certain things e.g EU citizens to stay.
Mr May has already made it clear that is her wish, provided the EU reciprocate. It's hard to believe these MPs could be so stupid as to give the EU such a hostage. I wonder what they're really aiming at?
Is she using her husband as a spokesman now?
Noticed the typo very late, only just in time to correct it!
Indeed. I feel a little sorry for him - if he sacks them, he is surely genuinely going to fill the shadow cabinet given the number who have refused to serve in it or been previously sacked/resigned, but even if he comes up with some pablum about why, in this instance, its ok the frontbench did not follow the whip because its oh so unique situation, that would be such nonsense. Even if that were justified, in that case they should never have whipped in the first place, and if there are exceptions to when defying the whip from the frontbench has consequences, what's the bloody point of having any whip at all?
Of course, fundamentally he is unable to tell people they must follow a directive from the leadership, so my sympathy only goes so far.
It was his cretinous decision to attempt a three-line whip that got him into this mess: your sympathy goes way too far.
The sympathy is purely in relation to the difficulty of his position being inherently sympathetic due to the scale of the task, I assure you. That he asked for the leadership and the particular challenges he faces are broadly speaking the result of his own choices, even if others hardly met him halfway, means it does not go far.
I thought Ed M would be PM and I was relaxed about that, even though I didn't plan to vote for his party, but it would take something truly remarkable for me to consider voting for Corbynite Labour, or even taking a neutral stance in a Corbyn vs Other contest.
Times reporting Tory backbenchers are threatening to cause trouble if May doesn't guarantee certain things e.g EU citizens to stay.
Mr May has already made it clear that is her wish, provided the EU reciprocate. It's hard to believe these MPs could be so stupid as to give the EU such a hostage. I wonder what they're really aiming at?
Is she using her husband as a spokesman now?
Noticed the typo very late, only just in time to correct it!
Indeed. I feel a little sorry for him - if he sacks them, he is surely genuinely going to fill the shadow cabinet given the number who have refused to serve in it or been previously sacked/resigned, but even if he comes up with some pablum about why, in this instance, its ok the frontbench did not follow the whip because its oh so unique situation, that would be such nonsense. Even if that were justified, in that case they should never have whipped in the first place, and if there are exceptions to when defying the whip from the frontbench has consequences, what's the bloody point of having any whip at all?
Of course, fundamentally he is unable to tell people they must follow a directive from the leadership, so my sympathy only goes so far.
It was his cretinous decision to attempt a three-line whip that got him into this mess: your sympathy goes way too far.
Most useful Labour votes aren't in London, are they?
Labour is being forced to choose between London and it's traditional heartlands. Choosing London lost 40 seats in Scotland.
Indeed. I feel a little sorry for him - if he sacks them, he is surely genuinely going to fill the shadow cabinet given the number who have refused to serve in it or been previously sacked/resigned, but even if he comes up with some pablum about why, in this instance, its ok the frontbench did not follow the whip because its oh so unique situation, that would be such nonsense. Even if that were justified, in that case they should never have whipped in the first place, and if there are exceptions to when defying the whip from the frontbench has consequences, what's the bloody point of having any whip at all?
Of course, fundamentally he is unable to tell people they must follow a directive from the leadership, so my sympathy only goes so far.
It was his cretinous decision to attempt a three-line whip that got him into this mess: your sympathy goes way too far.
Most useful Labour votes aren't in London, are they?
Labour is being forced to choose between London and it's traditional heartlands. Choosing London lost 40 seats in Scotland.
Mike has already explained the important psephological differences between a single constituency referendum (with lots of non-voters) and parliamentary elections under FPP.
I think actually think it's just that some PBers have sympathy/share the views of the religious right - I mean comparing abortion to infantacide?! .
Dear Ms Apocalypse, please grow up. You say some very sensible things, but some very, very silly things...
Part of growing up is to be able to distinguish someone explaining a third party's views, from someone sharing those views. And yes, of course, abortion and infanticide are morally indistinguishable if you start from the premise that the unborn child is a person exactly like the newly-born child.
There you are. Two separate concepts for you to try to understand. For the avoidance of doubt - this shouldn't need saying, but clearly does - I have said nothing whatsoever about what my views on this matter are, except that I don't think the viability of the foetus outside the womb is terribly relevant to question of the time limits for abortion.
It appears part of growing up is persuading others of the validity of your views with smug condescension. Stay forever young, Apocalypse.
Sooner or later, someone will work out what type of Labour members these mostly are/were: supporters of Mr Corbyn, or supporters of a more traditional Labour approach. If the latter - people for whom this is the last straw - then Labour's left wing is strengthened even more.
I am sort of thinking that ed Milibands obvious manoeuvres are aimed at a breakaway real Labour party in the event of by election disaster later this month. I can't believe he fancies another shot at leadership for himself, but he might be contemplating eminence grise status in a new party.
Yes, that's a reasonable conclusion to draw. There's something up.
Miliband has a massively leave voting constituency. If he wants to set up a Pro-Europe Labour, he'll need to find a new seat.
I think you underestimate how much currency 'they lied to you' will have over the next few years.
Lots and lots of lovely lies by your side to be revealed first I rather feel.
My side wasn't represented in the referendum campaign. Cameron's platform was half-out, never join the Euro, keep our distance.
That's because your side wasn't a side at all. You would have had trouble filling a village hall with people who agree with you.
What I don't understand about Labour's position is why they voted for the referendum in the first place. They had a perfectly reasonable line they could have used, about it being called purely for the convenience of the Conservative Party, or alternatively that in a parliamentary democracy MPs should decide.
Indeed. I feel a little sorry for him - if he sacks them, he is surely genuinely going to fill the shadow cabinet given the number who have refused to serve in it or been previously sacked/resigned, but even if he comes up with some pablum about why, in this instance, its ok the frontbench did not follow the whip because its oh so unique situation, that would be such nonsense. Even if that were justified, in that case they should never have whipped in the first place, and if there are exceptions to when defying the whip from the frontbench has consequences, what's the bloody point of having any whip at all?
Of course, fundamentally he is unable to tell people they must follow a directive from the leadership, so my sympathy only goes so far.
It was his cretinous decision to attempt a three-line whip that got him into this mess: your sympathy goes way too far.
Most useful Labour votes aren't in London, are they?
Labour is being forced to choose between London and it's traditional heartlands. Choosing London lost 40 seats in Scotland.
Mike has already explained the important psephological differences between a single constituency referendum (with lots of non-voters) and parliamentary elections under FPP.
I fail to see how that makes prioritising London valuable at the cost of losing Scotland, the Midlands, the North of England etc.
If Corbyn ran on a 'Screw London' agenda, he'd pile up votes.
What I don't understand about Labour's position is why they voted for the referendum in the first place. They had a perfectly reasonable line they could have used, about it being called purely for the convenience of the Conservative Party, or alternatively that in a parliamentary democracy MPs should decide.
Well before it was held fair enough. But as a fait accompli, I'm sorry Richard, that line would have been crap.
They could oppose the bill now because of lies, or public support being conditional, or something else. But not because it was not for the people to decide.
What I don't understand about Labour's position is why they voted for the referendum in the first place. They had a perfectly reasonable line they could have used, about it being called purely for the convenience of the Conservative Party, or alternatively that in a parliamentary democracy MPs should decide.
Well before it was held fair enough. But as a fait accompli, I'm sorry Richard, that line would have been crap.
They could oppose the bill now because of lies, or public support being conditional, or something else. But not because it was not for the people to decide.
Yes, but it would be easier if they hadn't actually voted for the referendum.
Stop The War Coalition is so last year darling....Stop Trump Coalition is the cause to be seen with in 2017.
A letter sent to the Guardian by the newly formed Stop Trump Coalition, and signed by 90 figures from across arts and politics, damningly referred to the US president’s actions as “dangerous and divisive” and said he “directly threatens steps towards tackling climate change, fighting discrimination, inequality, peace and disarmament”.
Signatories include singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, comedians Frankie Boyle and Omid Djalili, model Bianca Jagger, former Labour leader Ed Miliband, Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, journalist Owen Jones, Green party co-leader Caroline Lucas, Leanne Wood, the Plaid Cymru leader, and Labour MP Clive Lewis.
Stop The War Coalition is so last year darling....Stop Trump Coalition is the cause célèbre in 2017.
A letter sent to the Guardian by the newly formed Stop Trump Coalition, and signed by 90 figures from across arts and politics, damningly referred to the US president’s actions as “dangerous and divisive” and said he “directly threatens steps towards tackling climate change, fighting discrimination, inequality, peace and disarmament”.
Signatories include singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, comedians Frankie Boyle and Omid Djalili, model Bianca Jagger, former Labour leader Ed Miliband, Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, journalist Owen Jones, Green party co-leader Caroline Lucas, Leanne Wood, the Plaid Cymru leader, and Labour MP Clive Lewis.
Sooner or later, someone will work out what type of Labour members these mostly are/were: supporters of Mr Corbyn, or supporters of a more traditional Labour approach. If the latter - people for whom this is the last straw - then Labour's left wing is strengthened even more.
I am sort of thinking that ed Milibands obvious manoeuvres are aimed at a breakaway real Labour party in the event of by election disaster later this month. I can't believe he fancies another shot at leadership for himself, but he might be contemplating eminence grise status in a new party.
Yes, that's a reasonable conclusion to draw. There's something up.
Miliband has a massively leave voting constituency. If he wants to set up a Pro-Europe Labour, he'll need to find a new seat.
I think you underestimate how much currency 'they lied to you' will have over the next few years.
Lots and lots of lovely lies by your side to be revealed first I rather feel.
My side wasn't represented in the referendum campaign. Cameron's platform was half-out, never join the Euro, keep our distance.
That's because your side wasn't a side at all. You would have had trouble filling a village hall with people who agree with you.
While I am a fan of the debate William brings to the site, it is nevertheless true that Trumpite Europhiles are a decidedly rare breed.
No: the Anglo-Saxons have a common philosophy but the British and the Americans have developed it in different practical ways.
Brits don't trust their government, and so the police (as a potential instrument of oppression) are not armed and the army is not allowed on the streets
Americans don't trust their government, and so the citizens are allowed to bear arms to defend themselves against an oppressive government
Europeans are much more comfortable with the state as an instrument of power imposing its wishes on citizens
To take your points one by one.
1) TRUST ======== As a rough rule of thumb, Brits trust their government but not companies, and the US trust companies but not their governments. This is why the UK has things like NHS-as-a-religion, highly restrictive gun laws and the Data Protection Act, and the US has Obamacare-on-life-support, highly permissive gun laws and a scattering of data privacy laws. Brits (well nice middle-class people) see government as something that does things *for* them and get quite upset when it doesn't, and Americans see government as something that does things *to* them and get quite relieved when it doesn't.
2) POSSE COMITATUS ================== Generally speaking, the United States tries hard not to deploy the US Army on US soil against US citizens: in fact, there are laws against it, although there have been exceptions. When there are troops on US soil pointing guns at civilians and occasionally firing them, then it's usually the National Guard. Exceptions such as the American Civil War, Indian massacres and the Mormons are simply that: exceptions
The Brits, however...well the British Army does it quite a lot. Although in recent times it's for public health or emergency cover, it's not, er, unheard of for it to be deployed on UK streets for crowd control with extreme prejudice. Examples include this, this, this and this.
3) EUROPEAN ATTITUDES TOWARDS THE STATE ======================================= Post World War II Western European nations are pretty distrustful of their Governments, and post-Soviet times the Eastern European nations ditto: they didn't even trust political parties. Hence the list system and PR.
Stop The War Coalition is so last year darling....Stop Trump Coalition is the cause célèbre in 2017.
A letter sent to the Guardian by the newly formed Stop Trump Coalition, and signed by 90 figures from across arts and politics, damningly referred to the US president’s actions as “dangerous and divisive” and said he “directly threatens steps towards tackling climate change, fighting discrimination, inequality, peace and disarmament”.
Signatories include singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, comedians Frankie Boyle and Omid Djalili, model Bianca Jagger, former Labour leader Ed Miliband, Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, journalist Owen Jones, Green party co-leader Caroline Lucas, Leanne Wood, the Plaid Cymru leader, and Labour MP Clive Lewis.
Stop The War Coalition is so last year darling....Stop Trump Coalition is the cause to be seen with in 2017.
A letter sent to the Guardian by the newly formed Stop Trump Coalition, and signed by 90 figures from across arts and politics, damningly referred to the US president’s actions as “dangerous and divisive” and said he “directly threatens steps towards tackling climate change, fighting discrimination, inequality, peace and disarmament”.
Signatories include singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, comedians Frankie Boyle and Omid Djalili, model Bianca Jagger, former Labour leader Ed Miliband, Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, journalist Owen Jones, Green party co-leader Caroline Lucas, Leanne Wood, the Plaid Cymru leader, and Labour MP Clive Lewis.
Stop The War Coalition is so last year darling....Stop Trump Coalition is the cause to be seen with in 2017.
A letter sent to the Guardian by the newly formed Stop Trump Coalition, and signed by 90 figures from across arts and politics, damningly referred to the US president’s actions as “dangerous and divisive” and said he “directly threatens steps towards tackling climate change, fighting discrimination, inequality, peace and disarmament”.
Signatories include singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, comedians Frankie Boyle and Omid Djalili, model Bianca Jagger, former Labour leader Ed Miliband, Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, journalist Owen Jones, Green party co-leader Caroline Lucas, Leanne Wood, the Plaid Cymru leader, and Labour MP Clive Lewis.
Ugh, I hate it when I agree with the general thrust of someone's views - eg disliking Trump - but their actions around it make me think they are a bunch of berks.
I think actually think it's just that some PBers have sympathy/share the views of the religious right - I mean comparing abortion to infantacide?! .
Dear Ms Apocalypse, please grow up. You say some very sensible things, but some very, very silly things...
Part of growing up is to be able to distinguish someone explaining a third party's views, from someone sharing those views. And yes, of course, abortion and infanticide are morally indistinguishable if you start from the premise that the unborn child is a person exactly like the newly-born child.
There you are. Two separate concepts for you to try to understand. For the avoidance of doubt - this shouldn't need saying, but clearly does - I have said nothing whatsoever about what my views on this matter are, except that I don't think the viability of the foetus outside the womb is terribly relevant to question of the time limits for abortion.
Dear Mr Nabavi, stop being so patronising.
In your response to me you said nothing about infanticide in the context of a religious perspective on abortion. You provided that religious context throughout your other responses to me in the previous thread but did not in that in response. If you want to individuals to distinguish between third party views, and your own personal views you need to do that yourself.
Christopher Hope EXC Official Secrets Act to be expanded to cover “information that affects the economic well-being of the UK". More https://t.co/N7oBgyCkSw
Comments
They had 9.3m votes. 2.8 m were in London, Scotland and Wales - which suggests that 6.5m were in other bits of England.
The Tories had about 2m across London, Scotland and Wales - but over 9m in England.
UKIP only had 540k out of 3.9m - leaving roughly 3.4m in England.
So England is:
Tories 9m
Labour 6.5m
UKIP 3.4m
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/forsa.htm
The lies are already apparent.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/826923249372188674
edited to correct typo to 'Mrs'
Going to be an interesting reshuffle
oh
WE'RE BACK
French fail to block Britain's brave return to European top table
Of course, fundamentally he is unable to tell people they must follow a directive from the leadership, so my sympathy only goes so far.
Part of growing up is to be able to distinguish someone explaining a third party's views, from someone sharing those views. And yes, of course, abortion and infanticide are morally indistinguishable if you start from the premise that the unborn child is a person exactly like the newly-born child.
There you are. Two separate concepts for you to try to understand. For the avoidance of doubt - this shouldn't need saying, but clearly does - I have said nothing whatsoever about what my views on this matter are, except that I don't think the viability of the foetus outside the womb is terribly relevant to question of the time limits for abortion.
I thought Ed M would be PM and I was relaxed about that, even though I didn't plan to vote for his party, but it would take something truly remarkable for me to consider voting for Corbynite Labour, or even taking a neutral stance in a Corbyn vs Other contest.
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/826914009056161796
Labour is being forced to choose between London and it's traditional heartlands. Choosing London lost 40 seats in Scotland.
Stay forever young, Apocalypse.
Nobodys taking about it, but Green + SPD + Linke could be close to 50% at the German elections.
https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/826929734491709441
Of course Mikey Fallon always goes down well north of the border.
https://youtu.be/UhSK9j-TtD0
https://gregmulholland.org/en/article/2017/1199233/statement-on-my-position-on-the-vote-on-article-50-the-eu-withdrawal-bill
If Corbyn ran on a 'Screw London' agenda, he'd pile up votes.
They could oppose the bill now because of lies, or public support being conditional, or something else. But not because it was not for the people to decide.
A letter sent to the Guardian by the newly formed Stop Trump Coalition, and signed by 90 figures from across arts and politics, damningly referred to the US president’s actions as “dangerous and divisive” and said he “directly threatens steps towards tackling climate change, fighting discrimination, inequality, peace and disarmament”.
Signatories include singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, comedians Frankie Boyle and Omid Djalili, model Bianca Jagger, former Labour leader Ed Miliband, Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, journalist Owen Jones, Green party co-leader Caroline Lucas, Leanne Wood, the Plaid Cymru leader, and Labour MP Clive Lewis.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/01/public-figures-call-biggest-ever-uk-protest-oppose-trump-visit
And I can see why they want to fight discrimination and inequality, but why do they want to fight peace and disarmament?
1) TRUST
========
As a rough rule of thumb, Brits trust their government but not companies, and the US trust companies but not their governments. This is why the UK has things like NHS-as-a-religion, highly restrictive gun laws and the Data Protection Act, and the US has Obamacare-on-life-support, highly permissive gun laws and a scattering of data privacy laws. Brits (well nice middle-class people) see government as something that does things *for* them and get quite upset when it doesn't, and Americans see government as something that does things *to* them and get quite relieved when it doesn't.
2) POSSE COMITATUS
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Generally speaking, the United States tries hard not to deploy the US Army on US soil against US citizens: in fact, there are laws against it, although there have been exceptions. When there are troops on US soil pointing guns at civilians and occasionally firing them, then it's usually the National Guard. Exceptions such as the American Civil War, Indian massacres and the Mormons are simply that: exceptions
The Brits, however...well the British Army does it quite a lot. Although in recent times it's for public health or emergency cover, it's not, er, unheard of for it to be deployed on UK streets for crowd control with extreme prejudice. Examples include this, this, this and this.
3) EUROPEAN ATTITUDES TOWARDS THE STATE
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Post World War II Western European nations are pretty distrustful of their Governments, and post-Soviet times the Eastern European nations ditto: they didn't even trust political parties. Hence the list system and PR.
NEW THREAD
Lily Allen - WHO?, Paloma Faith - OVERRATED, Omid Djalili - EXTREME VETTING, Bianca Jagger - UGLY, Ed Miliband - LOSER...
In your response to me you said nothing about infanticide in the context of a religious perspective on abortion. You provided that religious context throughout your other responses to me in the previous thread but did not in that in response. If you want to individuals to distinguish between third party views, and your own personal views you need to do that yourself.
EXC Official Secrets Act to be expanded to cover “information that affects the economic well-being of the UK". More https://t.co/N7oBgyCkSw