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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Latest French presidential polling has one-time odds-favourite Francois Fillon failing to make the final two

There’s no doubt what’s what’s become known as Penelopegate is having a big impact on assessments about who is going to win. The right-wing French Republican candidate has been dominating there polls and betting ever since he won the nomination in November but over the past few days there’s been a huge turnaround.

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

I think he's screwed, this tweet amuses me so much, it's like expenses saga all over again.

https://twitter.com/sarahloucohen/status/826733915545145349

FrancisUrquhart

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

logical_song

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

UKIP leaders and potential leaders do seem to have problems filling in simple forms.

FrancisUrquhart

logical_song said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

UKIP leaders and potential leaders do seem to have problems filling in simple forms.

Seem to be fairly good at the ones relating to claiming their expenses....

Theuniondivvie

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Poor chap, he's not even had a chance to put up his fake bookshelf wallpaper.

Carolus_Rex

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Nomination papers, corrections - what is it with Kippers and leaving things too late?

Blue_rog

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think he's screwed, this tweet amuses me so much, it's like expenses saga all over again.

https://twitter.com/sarahloucohen/status/826733915545145349

Translation please, don't read French and this is an English site

FrancisUrquhart

The thing about French scandals being about money not sex, isn't that because a) French far more relaxed about these things and so don't interest the people (thus the papers) and b) isn't it the case that the French politicians enjoy a greater level of protection by law from the papers running sex scandal stories?

Morris_Dancer

Whilst there is a credible path to a Le Pen presidency I still think it's very unlikely. Come round two, the French will rally round the alternative, assuming she makes the second round.

TheScreamingEagles

Blue_rog said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think he's screwed, this tweet amuses me so much, it's like expenses saga all over again.

https://twitter.com/sarahloucohen/status/826733915545145349

Translation please, don't read French and this is an English site

Mrs Fillon can't find her employment contract and she's not sure if she ever signed an employment contract.

logical_song

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Presumably the powers that be take such things seriously?

3.84 The home address:
 must be completed in full
 must not contain abbreviations
 must be your current home address
 must not be a business address (unless the candidate runs a business
from their home)
21
3.85 If any detail of the home address is wrong or omitted, the nomination is
not automatically invalid if the description of the place is such as to be
commonly understood

welshowl

Blue_rog said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think he's screwed, this tweet amuses me so much, it's like expenses saga all over again.

https://twitter.com/sarahloucohen/status/826733915545145349

Translation please, don't read French and this is an English site

Penelope Fillon has not found her contracts of employment and doesn't remember if she signed them or not.

TheScreamingEagles

Carolus_Rex said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Nomination papers, corrections - what is it with Kippers and leaving things too late?

Well, and the postal votes go out Monday.....

CD13

Mr Divvie,

I doubt if an error in a home address will make much difference to Ukip's vote in Stoke. Once Article 50 gets the go-head, they'll be like a snowflake in a thaw. At least until, and if, the anti-democrats find a way to sabotage it.

TheScreamingEagles

logical_song said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Presumably the powers that be take such things seriously?

3.84 The home address:
 must be completed in full
 must not contain abbreviations
 must be your current home address
 must not be a business address (unless the candidate runs a business
from their home)
21
3.85 If any detail of the home address is wrong or omitted, the nomination is
not automatically invalid if the description of the place is such as to be
commonly understood

They do take it seriously.

This smacks of someone ready some of the regulations and not all of them.

logical_song

CD13 said:

Mr Divvie,

I doubt if an error in a home address will make much difference to Ukip's vote in Stoke. Once Article 50 gets the go-head, they'll be like a snowflake in a thaw. At least until, and if, the anti-democrats find a way to sabotage it.

You're assuming that he's eligible to stand?

Richard_Nabavi

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Yep, nominations have closed. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me as though his nomination form is invalid. There's provision for correcting minor details of the address, but not for correcting fictional addresses.

Blue_rog

@TSE and @Welshowl

Many thanks, that's really funny

FrancisUrquhart

Oh Jason Roy....sigh...

SimonStClare

SeanT said:

I'm beginning to see a route to a Le Pen presidency, here,

Say it ain’t so! After Corbyn, Brexit, Trump and now Le Pen, Mr Observer's head will explode.

isam

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Yep, nominations have closed. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me as though his nomination form is invalid. There's provision for correcting minor details of the address, but not for correcting fictional addresses.

Plenty of EVS Lab about

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/stoke-on-trent-central-by-election/winning-party

Animal_pb

Morris_Dancer said:

Whilst there is a credible path to a Le Pen presidency I still think it's very unlikely. Come round two, the French will rally round the alternative, assuming she makes the second round.

Probably, but all the electoral evidence is that the French Left is much more inclined to turn out for a right wing Stop Le Pen candidate than the right is for a left wing Stop Le Pen one; if MLP can paint Macron as the socialist choice (clearly she couldn't with Fillon), her chances may well have improved.

welshowl

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

JosiasJessop

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Yep, nominations have closed. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me as though his nomination form is invalid. There's provision for correcting minor details of the address, but not for correcting fictional addresses.

As someone said FPT:

Errors in a home address
3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a
need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the
full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly
understood.

"as long as the address can be commonly understood."

That's an interesting phrase.

SouthamObserver

SimonStClare said:

SeanT said:

I'm beginning to see a route to a Le Pen presidency, here,

Say it ain’t so! After Corbyn, Brexit, Trump and now Le Pen, Mr Observer's head will explode.

A Le Pen presidency would cause huge turmoil in the EU and that would have significant and negative consequences for us. What's more, she is a genuine hard right, borderline fascists from a family of undoubted fascists. So my head would explode. But I don't think it will happen.

williamglenn

JosiasJessop said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Yep, nominations have closed. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me as though his nomination form is invalid. There's provision for correcting minor details of the address, but not for correcting fictional addresses.

As someone said FPT:

Errors in a home address
3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a
need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the
full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly
understood.

"as long as the address can be commonly understood."

That's an interesting phrase.

Open to interpretation but I'd take that to mean that a letter sent to the address on the form should reach you. I.e. if the Queen put her address on the form as Buck House, London, it wouldn't be absolutely correct, but would be commonly understood.

david_herdson

Sarkozy is available at Ladbrokes for the presidency at 100/1. just saying.

Actually, I'm not just saying. That's a tip. It's a bloody good price. Sarkozy is not a great candidate but if Fillon goes, he might fill the gap and any senior LR candidate will have a strong chance of winning.

JosiasJessop

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

Ishmael_Z

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

With the greatest respect, two words: Im. Possible. That is a car costing two smartphones, when a car needs much more processing power than two phones, plus wheels and motors and a roof and sides and such. $20 000 would be only slightly less incredible.

Unless I am wrong, in which case apols.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. PB, we may well discover the truth of this.

Edited extra bit: Mr. Observer, I hope your head doesn't explode.

TOPPING

fpt

SouthamObserver said:

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

SeanT said:

rcs1000 said:

SeanT said:

Surprised you're not talking about this.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/01/eu-brexit-deal-city-leaked-report-european-parliament-article-50

Leaked EU parliament report. Basically, if the EU tries to fuck the City, that will fuck the EU, so they might have to be unexpectedly nice to us.

It is in both the EU's interests and ours to have a sensible, workable post-Brexit settlement.

Indeed. I reckon logic will prevail. If you listen to the EU Commission then they're gonna turn Britain into a pile of reeking ashes, if you listen to quieter voices in the nation states, Spain, Italy, Sweden, then they want an equable deal.

They have nothing to fear from Brexit encouraging others. We were only halfway in anyway. We were unique. For those inside the euro, i.e. nearly all of the remaining EU, the die is cast. They can never leave.

The Commission is subservient to the member states. They will determine the deal we get, not the bureaucrats and MEPs in Brussels.

So cheer the F up! It's not going to be the Apocalypse. A deal will be done. Our future is neither Utopian nor Dystopian. But we do know that from 2019 the British people will elect and eject all the people who seek to govern us.

I don't think the sovereignty we will gain will, in practice, compensate for the economic downside of leaving the single market. I slso never felt Britain was particularly emasculated within the EU; not that I have ever been fond of its institutions.

That, sadly, is the crux. You will not be able to convince the Sovereigners that we were perfectly sovereign as members of the EU. Witness our sovereign decision to leave. The only people talking about a second referendum are the LDs and unless they are a secret EU-funded third column we can say that they are also operating within our sovereign realm.

It really is insecurity on a grand and tragic scale.

logical_song

JosiasJessop said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Yep, nominations have closed. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me as though his nomination form is invalid. There's provision for correcting minor details of the address, but not for correcting fictional addresses.

As someone said FPT:

Errors in a home address
3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a
need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the
full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly
understood.

"as long as the address can be commonly understood."

That's an interesting phrase.

Why did he get himself in this situation - it looks incompetent, because it is.

Nigelb

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

That might well be the USP which persuades the luddites accept them.

Incidentally, there are approximately 3.5m professional truck drivers in the US...

FrancisUrquhart

I am not sure how old that Fox report on the Google car is, but it doesn't seem right. In recent reports, Google have made it clear they are pursing a different strategy to building a single person bubble car.

In fact many of the senior people who pushed this project have left and it is reported that other companies have overtaken Google on who has state of the art self driving tech.

Richard_Nabavi

SeanT said:

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

Are you sure that they didn't mean $2000 more than a standard car? That sounds more plausible, and in line with some other estimates I've seen.

TheScreamingEagles

Michael Crick might have saved me nearly a grand.

FrancisUrquhart

Richard_Nabavi said:

SeanT said:

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

Are you sure that they didn't mean $2000 more than a standard car? That sounds more plausible, and in line with some other estimates I've seen.

Those are the kind of numbers I have heard quoted from a number of different companies involved in this...$2000-3000 more for the tech.

welshowl

SeanT said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

Yes, the car is in charge. You just have to slur your address. It will be great for pubs - no more worries about drink driving. But terrible news for cabbies and Uber drivers, as you say.

I reckon a personal car driver will eventually become a status symbol for the very rich, like a butler. Otherwise cars and buses as we know them will go extinct, as the horse and carriage did, before.

On a serious note, returning from nights out aside, "who is in charge?" is a legal minefield for all kinds of road use, insurance etc. What if you can override it and you are not qualified or are indeed drunk? What if you can't override it too? I could see there being a 10 m.p.h. limit on them to start (21st Century man with a red flag walking in front for public safety really) or some such limitation. The lawyers will win big time as ever (unless they've been automated too by then).

weejonnie

JosiasJessop said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

A 17 year old youth on his second driving lesson wouldn't swerve towards a hedge just because the car he was tailgating turned off.

My old lecturer at college once quoted "Any damned fool can write a compiler for correctly-written source code." The equivalent here is

"Any damned company can program a car to follow lines in the road."

david_herdson

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carolus_Rex said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Nomination papers, corrections - what is it with Kippers and leaving things too late?

Well, and the postal votes go out Monday.....

Yes. He'll be on the ballot. Legally, I think it'll only be an issue if he wins, in which case a petition could be brought. However, I'd be amazed if Labour (and others) didn't try to make something of it in the campaign.

PlatoSaid

One for @SeanT and bug watchers

The assassin bug https://t.co/TfuzOjX8go

Great thread comments

TheScreamingEagles

logical_song said:

JosiasJessop said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Yep, nominations have closed. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me as though his nomination form is invalid. There's provision for correcting minor details of the address, but not for correcting fictional addresses.

As someone said FPT:

Errors in a home address
3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a
need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the
full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly
understood.

"as long as the address can be commonly understood."

That's an interesting phrase.

Why did he get himself in this situation - it looks incompetent, because it is.

I've spoken to someone who has acted as an agent in the past, he thinks Nuttal will be declared ineligible and there will be no UKIP candidate in Stoke.

Just need someone to make a complaint to the returning officer.

welshowl

JosiasJessop said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

Quite. Pottering at walking pace around suburban streets is a big challenge of itself, let alone 70 mph down the motorway or a twisty lane at night in the rain.

FrancisUrquhart

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carolus_Rex said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Nomination papers, corrections - what is it with Kippers and leaving things too late?

Well, and the postal votes go out Monday.....

Yes. He'll be on the ballot. Legally, I think it'll only be an issue if he wins, in which case a petition could be brought. However, I'd be amazed if Labour (and others) didn't try to make something of it in the campaign.

Not sure Labour's candidate wants too much attention of what he thinks about the locals...

Roger

I've just heard Osborne say the government have chosen not to prioritize the economy post Brexit but instead to concentrate on getting rid of the European Court of Human Rights.

Is he taking the piss?

williamglenn

TheScreamingEagles said:

Michael Crick might have saved me nearly a grand.

If UKIP are out, does it mean a clear win for Labour, or possibly a big upset?

The Lib Dems should do some bar charts of the top 2 from the 2010 result.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/e47.stm

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Owl, would've thought motorways would be far easier than a twisty English village.

isam

FrancisUrquhart said:

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carolus_Rex said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Nomination papers, corrections - what is it with Kippers and leaving things too late?

Well, and the postal votes go out Monday.....

Yes. He'll be on the ballot. Legally, I think it'll only be an issue if he wins, in which case a petition could be brought. However, I'd be amazed if Labour (and others) didn't try to make something of it in the campaign.

Not sure Labour's candidate wants too much attention of what he thinks about the locals...

Imagine after all the lefties trying to ignore the referendum result, UKIP win in Stoke and Labour still have the MP on a technicality!!!

The gap between the bubble and the normal folk will get ever bigger

PAW

Not the latest incarnation of the Tesla Autopilot in that review of course, have to wait another 12 months as the software is upgraded.

FrancisUrquhart

SeanT said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

SeanT said:

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

Are you sure that they didn't mean $2000 more than a standard car? That sounds more plausible, and in line with some other estimates I've seen.

lol. Maybe. It is late here in Bangers and I have imbibed gin with an old mate.

$2000 MORE is certainly less impressive.

On the other hand, self drive cars can be had for $20k, already

http://fortune.com/2016/03/14/self-driving-car-honda/


Perhaps Google sees some huge economies of scale?

That isn't a self driving car! It is a computer assisted.

DanSmith

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

I know the wider use of advanced technology will cause issues; but cheap, self driving cars are undoubtedly going to be great for most people. Opens up commuting by car to huge swaths of people who would never in a million years have considered it.

Lucian_Fletcher

Have to say that as someone working on election stuff at the moment, I think Nutall should be off the ballot. Bit of a stupid lie.

OldKingCole

logical_song said:

JosiasJessop said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Yep, nominations have closed. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me as though his nomination form is invalid. There's provision for correcting minor details of the address, but not for correcting fictional addresses.

As someone said FPT:

Errors in a home address
3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a
need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the
full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly
understood.

"as long as the address can be commonly understood."

That's an interesting phrase.

Why did he get himself in this situation - it looks incompetent, because it is.

Some years ago when I was a Parliamentary Agent I fell foul of this. Our candidate was employed by the EEC (in those days) , and lived near his place of employment, in Brussels. However, for the time of the election, and indeed for the purposes of pre-election electioneering he stayed with a committee member, and I put that address on the nomination form. The Returning Officer refused to accept it, as that ‘wasn’t where he ordinarily lived with his wife and family.’ I argued hard but time was runnimng short and I couldn’t get advice from Party HQ so hastily prepared another form with the Brussels address on it and got it duly signed.
There were comments, but I don’t think it did us much harm.

Richard_Nabavi

TheScreamingEagles said:

I've spoken to someone who has acted as an agent in the past, he thinks Nuttal will be declared ineligible and there will be no UKIP candidate in Stoke.

Just need someone to make a complaint to the returning officer.

The odd thing is that objections had to be made yesterday:

http://webapps.stoke.gov.uk/uploadedfiles/Timetable-for-Stoke-Central.pdf

So maybe it's too late to declare him ineligible?

TheScreamingEagles

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

The thing is, driverless cars are one security hack away from joining the Microsoft Zune.

Pong

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Michael Crick might have saved me nearly a grand.

If UKIP are out, does it mean a clear win for Labour, or possibly a big upset?

The Lib Dems should do some bar charts of the top 2 from the 2010 result.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/e47.stm

Clear Lab win. Although the tories might have a chance....

I'm not convinced Nuttall is ineligible though.

logical_song

OldKingCole said:

logical_song said:

JosiasJessop said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Yep, nominations have closed. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me as though his nomination form is invalid. There's provision for correcting minor details of the address, but not for correcting fictional addresses.

As someone said FPT:

Errors in a home address
3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a
need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the
full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly
understood.

"as long as the address can be commonly understood."

That's an interesting phrase.

Why did he get himself in this situation - it looks incompetent, because it is.

Some years ago when I was a Parliamentary Agent I fell foul of this. Our candidate was employed by the EEC (in those days) , and lived near his place of employment, in Brussels. However, for the time of the election, and indeed for the purposes of pre-election electioneering he stayed with a committee member, and I put that address on the nomination form. The Returning Officer refused to accept it, as that ‘wasn’t where he ordinarily lived with his wife and family.’ I argued hard but time was runnimng short and I couldn’t get advice from Party HQ so hastily prepared another form with the Brussels address on it and got it duly signed.
There were comments, but I don’t think it did us much harm.

That's interesting, so they obviously do take it seriously. Too late for Nuttall?

JosiasJessop

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

" it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance,"

No, it isn't clear. In the same way the Turing Test is nowhere near being passed.

isam

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I've spoken to someone who has acted as an agent in the past, he thinks Nuttal will be declared ineligible and there will be no UKIP candidate in Stoke.

Just need someone to make a complaint to the returning officer.

The odd thing is that objections had to be made yesterday:

http://webapps.stoke.gov.uk/uploadedfiles/Timetable-for-Stoke-Central.pdf

So maybe it's too late to declare him ineligible?

It all just makes for great betting opportunities

Blue_rog

Nigelb said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

That might well be the USP which persuades the luddites accept them.

Incidentally, there are approximately 3.5m professional truck drivers in the US...

Reminds me of an old Simpsons episode where Homer becomes a truck driver and finds they all have autopilots

weejonnie

SeanT said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

Yes, the car is in charge. You just have to slur your address. It will be great for pubs - no more worries about drink driving. But terrible news for cabbies and Uber drivers, as you say.

I reckon a personal car driver will eventually become a status symbol for the very rich, like a butler. Otherwise cars and buses as we know them will go extinct, as the horse and carriage did, before.

American Legalese

The car is in charge.
Therefore the software in the car is in charge
Therefore the writers of the software are responsible for the actions of the car.
They have deep pockets.
So when the 1st accident comes in - we sue.
Have a nice day.

(England struggling in the 1-day T20 I see) 86/2 after 10.

TheScreamingEagles

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I've spoken to someone who has acted as an agent in the past, he thinks Nuttal will be declared ineligible and there will be no UKIP candidate in Stoke.

Just need someone to make a complaint to the returning officer.

The odd thing is that objections had to be made yesterday:

http://webapps.stoke.gov.uk/uploadedfiles/Timetable-for-Stoke-Central.pdf

So maybe it's too late to declare him ineligible?

Looks like it depending on when Doctor Nuttal submitted his papers.

logical_song

Lucian_Fletcher said:

Have to say that as someone working on election stuff at the moment, I think Nutall should be off the ballot. Bit of a stupid lie.

Would be better if he was on. He can avoid being beaten if he's not allowed to stand.

JosiasJessop

PAW said:

Not the latest incarnation of the Tesla Autopilot in that review of course, have to wait another 12 months as the software is upgraded.

Indeed; it was at the end of last year; i.e. a month or two ago.

I bet they won;'t have made much improvement in this sort of behaviour at the end of this year. It's a blooming difficult thing to do.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Jessop, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCV5XWiW6gc

Cookie

welshowl said:

JosiasJessop said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

Quite. Pottering at walking pace around suburban streets is a big challenge of itself, let alone 70 mph down the motorway or a twisty lane at night in the rain.

70mph on the motorway is actually quite straightforward - no pedestrians to anticipate, no parked cars to navigate, predictable lane markings.

There are definitely issues. I can't see how one of these can navigate a windy Cornish lane where your car is touching the hedges on both sides at once, or park in a temporary car park in a muddy field. But most of the issues are surmountable. After all, if Google can regularly drive down every street in the country for the purposes of Streeview, it's not too much of a stretch of the imagination that it drives down every street and lays down some sort of road-edge-indicators that the car can sense.

Car parking will be a big change. In future, your car will take you right to your destination, then trundle off to park in a big car park ina cheap location on the edge of town - then come back again to pick you up when it's time to go home. No need for city centre car parks.

Car ownership will also be a big issue. You won't need to own one of these - it will just turn up at your house when you need it. And you'll use a different car when you need to drive your family to Cornwall for the week than when you just need to get yourself to B&Q for a new screwdriver. (This will mean you can no longer treat the boot of your car as an extra store room, but hey, swings and roundabouts). Which will in turn mean that your drive is superfluous, and we can all live in elegant Georgian streets.

DanSmith

logical_song said:

Lucian_Fletcher said:

Have to say that as someone working on election stuff at the moment, I think Nutall should be off the ballot. Bit of a stupid lie.

Would be better if he was on. He can avoid being beaten if he's not allowed to stand.

Is almost a good thing for him for this to happen...

RobD

Just catching up, what's this Nuttall business about?

Ishmael_Z

welshowl said:

JosiasJessop said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

Quite. Pottering at walking pace around suburban streets is a big challenge of itself, let alone 70 mph down the motorway or a twisty lane at night in the rain.

Musk has serious form for bigging up quite dull technology into Star Wars type scifi. He seriously shouldn't be calling a primitive cruise control plus camera setup an autopilot, because plenty of people are going to assume that if that is what it's called, that is what it is.

My favourite fact: you could buy a production electric car with rechargeable battery off Thomas Parker in 1884 - the year the siege of Khartoum started, and Oscar Wilde got married.

JosiasJessop

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

Yes, the car is in charge. You just have to slur your address. It will be great for pubs - no more worries about drink driving. But terrible news for cabbies and Uber drivers, as you say.

I reckon a personal car driver will eventually become a status symbol for the very rich, like a butler. Otherwise cars and buses as we know them will go extinct, as the horse and carriage did, before.

On a serious note, returning from nights out aside, "who is in charge?" is a legal minefield for all kinds of road use, insurance etc. What if you can override it and you are not qualified or are indeed drunk? What if you can't override it too? I could see there being a 10 m.p.h. limit on them to start (21st Century man with a red flag walking in front for public safety really) or some such limitation. The lawyers will win big time as ever (unless they've been automated too by then).

This is why I would buy a Volvo autonomous car when they come on the market. They're the first - and I think only - manufacturer to accept liability for incidents whilst in autonomous mode.

http://fortune.com/2015/10/07/volvo-liability-self-driving-cars/

Very brave of them.

david_herdson

welshowl said:

JosiasJessop said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

Quite. Pottering at walking pace around suburban streets is a big challenge of itself, let alone 70 mph down the motorway or a twisty lane at night in the rain.

Motorways are dead easy, no matter what the speed, because they're clear of obstacles, everyone's going in the same direction, there are no sudden corners or blind summits, the surfaces are regular and well-marked and the junctions are simple. The only problems - beyond normal traffic issues - come with roadworks.

Minor roads, by contrast, present difficulties of a different order of magnitude.

TOPPING

I don't think every teenager attending a rave in Bermondsey, or people in London going from office to meeting, or families on a night out in the country, or anyone caught in the rain will be using driverless cars or have one in their pocket.

So I think they will make a dent but not a huge one.

(Waits for this post to resurface in 100yrs amid unrestrained hysterical laughter.)

Cookie

weejonnie said:

SeanT said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

Yes, the car is in charge. You just have to slur your address. It will be great for pubs - no more worries about drink driving. But terrible news for cabbies and Uber drivers, as you say.

I reckon a personal car driver will eventually become a status symbol for the very rich, like a butler. Otherwise cars and buses as we know them will go extinct, as the horse and carriage did, before.

American Legalese

The car is in charge.
Therefore the software in the car is in charge
Therefore the writers of the software are responsible for the actions of the car.
They have deep pockets.
So when the 1st accident comes in - we sue.
Have a nice day.

(England struggling in the 1-day T20 I see) 86/2 after 10.

Who accepts responsibility is currently a thorny issue. But I think Volvo, possibly, have recently indicated that their confidence in their emerging product is such that they will take on insurance liability. (It may not be Volvo.)

david_herdson

FrancisUrquhart said:

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carolus_Rex said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Is this Nutall incorrect home address down to another mistakes by another overly keen supporter, like him being a pro footballer and having a PhD? ;-)

Rookie mistake by the looks of it, with nominations having closed, I'm not sure there's time for him to correct it.

Nomination papers, corrections - what is it with Kippers and leaving things too late?

Well, and the postal votes go out Monday.....

Yes. He'll be on the ballot. Legally, I think it'll only be an issue if he wins, in which case a petition could be brought. However, I'd be amazed if Labour (and others) didn't try to make something of it in the campaign.

Not sure Labour's candidate wants too much attention of what he thinks about the locals...

One would assume that wouldn't be the angle taken!

JosiasJessop

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

The thing is, driverless cars are one security hack away from joining the Microsoft Zune.

No, they're not. Driverless cars are clearly the future, the way email was clearly the future in the early 1990s.

A technology so transformative, quicker, superior and less wasteful than its predecessor it will become universal very quickly.

They're the future, but they're a long way off (at least for level 5 cars). Note that many of these cars are used on selected routes that have been heavily mapped. Smoke and mirrors ...

Blue_rog

Cookie said:

welshowl said:

JosiasJessop said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

Quite. Pottering at walking pace around suburban streets is a big challenge of itself, let alone 70 mph down the motorway or a twisty lane at night in the rain.

Car parking will be a big change. In future, your car will take you right to your destination, then trundle off to park in a big car park ina cheap location on the edge of town - then come back again to pick you up when it's time to go home. No need for city centre car parks.

Car ownership will also be a big issue. You won't need to own one of these - it will just turn up at your house when you need it. And you'll use a different car when you need to drive your family to Cornwall for the week than when you just need to get yourself to B&Q for a new screwdriver. (This will mean you can no longer treat the boot of your car as an extra store room, but hey, swings and roundabouts). Which will in turn mean that your drive is superfluous, and we can all live in elegant Georgian streets.

My idea of heaven, I hate driving and especially hate long distance driving

TwistedFireStopper

Two grand for a self driving car seems way too cheap, if it's our conventional idea of a car. If it's just literally a comfortable heated box, then maybe. I can't see it being widely used in just 6 years, I know nothing about the technical side, but we're just not culturally ready for it, and the legal implications are probably not even understood yet.
It seems still in the realms of science fiction. Mind you, when I was a kid, we had 3 TV channels and it was in black and white, and I've only just turned 50. Science Fiction does seem to become Science Fact quicker these days.

david_herdson

Pong said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Michael Crick might have saved me nearly a grand.

If UKIP are out, does it mean a clear win for Labour, or possibly a big upset?

The Lib Dems should do some bar charts of the top 2 from the 2010 result.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/e47.stm

Clear Lab win. Although the tories might have a chance....

I'm not convinced Nuttall is ineligible though.

If the details are as claimed then he is certainly ineligible. That doesn't mean he won't be on the ballot though, just that the matter would have to be taken to an election court afterwards.

Hertsmere_Pubgoer

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

That would make them genuinely useful if you could go out to a nice country pub and get ratted safely.
For that reason, you could bet your last fiver that plod will want the occupant to be deemed responsible.

AlsoIndigo

Apropos the discussion last thread concerning adoption, and the lack there of by members of the US congress and senate. The number of people who adopt is tiny. It runs to about 120,000 kids in the US each year, in a country of around 120m families, so one family in a thousand adopts each year. So the fact that the number found is the senate is small is indicative of nothing.

I have personally adopted children.. I know no other people that have adopted children, its that smaller world.

Stark_Dawning

david_herdson said:

welshowl said:

JosiasJessop said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

Quite. Pottering at walking pace around suburban streets is a big challenge of itself, let alone 70 mph down the motorway or a twisty lane at night in the rain.

Motorways are dead easy, no matter what the speed, because they're clear of obstacles, everyone's going in the same direction, there are no sudden corners or blind summits, the surfaces are regular and well-marked and the junctions are simple. The only problems - beyond normal traffic issues - come with roadworks.

Minor roads, by contrast, present difficulties of a different order of magnitude.

Perhaps they'll go the way of most of those inventions you used to see on 'Tomorrow's World'. Did the aqualung that extracts its oxygen from the water ever materialize?

JosiasJessop

SeanT said:

JosiasJessop said:

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

" it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance,"

No, it isn't clear. In the same way the Turing Test is nowhere near being passed.

IIRC, you're the guy that used to argue with me, on here, that I was deluded in thinking that computers would ever master translation. Oops.

They haven't 'mastered' it, although they've improve more than I thought they would. And besides, that's a very different problem domain with radically different consequences of failure.

But if we're in that sort of mood, you're the guy, a few weeks ago, who said that the Turing test was nearly passed ...

Richard_Nabavi

david_herdson said:

If the details are as claimed then he is certainly ineligible. That doesn't mean he won't be on the ballot though, just that the matter would have to be taken to an election court afterwards.

The bet might be settled on the initial result, even if overturned later, so some caution is needed.

AlsoIndigo

JosiasJessop said:

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

" it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance,"

No, it isn't clear. In the same way the Turing Test is nowhere near being passed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27762088

isam

david_herdson said:

Pong said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Michael Crick might have saved me nearly a grand.

If UKIP are out, does it mean a clear win for Labour, or possibly a big upset?

The Lib Dems should do some bar charts of the top 2 from the 2010 result.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/e47.stm

Clear Lab win. Although the tories might have a chance....

I'm not convinced Nuttall is ineligible though.

If the details are as claimed then he is certainly ineligible. That doesn't mean he won't be on the ballot though, just that the matter would have to be taken to an election court afterwards.

That would be the best result for UKIP I think, better than winning and not being taken to court. It would fuel their claim that the establishment is against them and the will of the people.

OldKingCole

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

The thing is, driverless cars are one security hack away from joining the Microsoft Zune.

No, they're not. Driverless cars are clearly the future, the way email was clearly the future in the early 1990s.

A technology so transformative, quicker, superior and less wasteful than its predecessor it will become universal very quickly.

Since you’re sunning yourself (JEALOUS) in Bangkok......I really do like the thought of driverless cars clogging Sukhumvit!

Would it make much difference!

PlatoSaid

Should he be leading his Party instead? The comments say everything

Jeremy Corbyn MP
We need Twitter to silence LGBT hate. I've just signed up to tomorrow's thunderclap to say #no2LGBTHate https://t.co/zwayMPuvwg

Ishmael_Z

Stark_Dawning said:

david_herdson said:

welshowl said:

JosiasJessop said:

welshowl said:

SeanT said:

ON-topic I just watched a Fox News report on self drive cars. Google have got a new version. The Fox News lady inside said it scared her - but no one died.

Google told Fox they expect these cars to be widely on sale within 6 years, or less.

Cost? The basic model is $2000

Yes, two thousand dollars. For a car that will safely and automatically drive you around urban streets. Electric and sustainable. $2000.

This is a revolution and it will be here within 6 years. It's gonna destroy tens of thousands of jobs, from the off, it will eventually destroy millions of jobs.

I've no doubt we will find alternative ways to give people work, but, Wow.

The interesting thing is are you in charge of it, or is it in charge of it? Difference being if it's in charge of it you could presumably be as drunk as a skunk on the way back from the pub and all would be well. Bad day for taxis is that.

It's all smoke and mirrors at the moment. Here's ARS's take on a Tesla:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/01/tesla-model-s-rural-review-countryside/

I can report that autopilot works perfectly on motorways, and adequately on undivided A-roads, but you probably shouldn't use it on B-roads unless you're feeling brave. Basically, autopilot's primary mode of operation is following road markings. If there aren't any central or side lines, autopilot attempts to follow the car in front—and if there's no car in front, autopilot disengages. I had one particularly close call when the road markings had disappeared due to resurfacing, and then the car in front turned a corner. The car didn't really know what to do, and ended up veering sharply towards a hedge.

This is really, really difficult to do. So far they're getting the really easy bits done reasonably, not perfectly.

Quite. Pottering at walking pace around suburban streets is a big challenge of itself, let alone 70 mph down the motorway or a twisty lane at night in the rain.

Motorways are dead easy, no matter what the speed, because they're clear of obstacles, everyone's going in the same direction, there are no sudden corners or blind summits, the surfaces are regular and well-marked and the junctions are simple. The only problems - beyond normal traffic issues - come with roadworks.

Minor roads, by contrast, present difficulties of a different order of magnitude.

Perhaps they'll go the way of most of those inventions you used to see on 'Tomorrow's World'. Did the aqualung that extracts its oxygen from the water ever materialize?

Or the stuff you could buy from the Innovations catalogue.

LordWakefield

Pong said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Michael Crick might have saved me nearly a grand.

If UKIP are out, does it mean a clear win for Labour, or possibly a big upset?

The Lib Dems should do some bar charts of the top 2 from the 2010 result.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/e47.stm

Clear Lab win. Although the tories might have a chance....

I'm not convinced Nuttall is ineligible though.

The Labour Party candidate view of Brexit.

https://order-order.com/2017/02/01/labour-stoke-candidate-brexiteers-confused-inward-looking-racists/

FrancisUrquhart

AlsoIndigo said:

JosiasJessop said:

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

" it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance,"

No, it isn't clear. In the same way the Turing Test is nowhere near being passed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27762088

But it was bollocks...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/10/world_to_captain_cyborg_youre_rumbled/

isam

LordWakefield said:

Pong said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Michael Crick might have saved me nearly a grand.

If UKIP are out, does it mean a clear win for Labour, or possibly a big upset?

The Lib Dems should do some bar charts of the top 2 from the 2010 result.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/e47.stm

Clear Lab win. Although the tories might have a chance....

I'm not convinced Nuttall is ineligible though.

The Labour Party candidate view of Brexit.

https://order-order.com/2017/02/01/labour-stoke-candidate-brexiteers-confused-inward-looking-racists/

I knew it I knew it I knew it!!

I have been searching for those deleted tweets for weeks, well done Guido!!

David_Evershed

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

I look forward to zig zaging between the self drive cars as I overtake.

Carolus_Rex

On driverless cars, I am sure they will sell them for $2,000.

And charge $10,000 for each critical software update.

Edit: forgot to add, and lobby the government to change the traffic regs every week so there are lots of updates...

Morris_Dancer

Miss Plato, thunderclap does sound like a powerful strain of chlamydia.

Maybe it's the STD Zeus gives you.

JosiasJessop

AlsoIndigo said:

JosiasJessop said:

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

" it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance,"

No, it isn't clear. In the same way the Turing Test is nowhere near being passed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27762088

LOL. Eugene Goostman? Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Goostman

It also involves self-publicist 'scientist' Kevin Warwick, and was back in 2014, and there have been no reported sightings of it since.

In other words (and I think this is the first time I've said this): fake news.

More info here:
http://isturingtestpassed.github.io/

FrancisUrquhart

Asked by the bot 'Eugene' where the judge lived, this exchange followed:

[16:14:22] Judge: Epsom, home of the derby. yourself?

[16:14:27] Eugene: My guinea pig says that name Derby sounds very nice.

AlsoIndigo

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlsoIndigo said:

JosiasJessop said:

SeanT said:

Whatever the cost, it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance, and they will annihilate vast sectors of employment.

Quite scary. Also exciting (if you're not a cabbie, Uber dude, truck driver, etc)

" it is quite clear self drive cars are now within touching distance,"

No, it isn't clear. In the same way the Turing Test is nowhere near being passed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27762088

But it was bollocks...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/10/world_to_captain_cyborg_youre_rumbled/

Fake news has been around for longer than we thought

Richard_Nabavi

Ishmael_Z said:

Or the stuff you could buy from the Innovations catalogue.

I once did some consultancy work for that company. I got into a bit of trouble because I needed some sample text similar to their catalogue descriptions, so I came up with "Silver Clothes Pegs! Your washing-line will be the envy of the neighbourhood with these 1-carat silver-plated clothes pegs, specially made by Danish craftsmen to our exclusive design. Just £30 for six!"

They weren't very amused.

FrancisUrquhart

Oh dear England are f##ked.