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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn the rebel has made the wrong call on the Article 50 vot

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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Also many MPs seem to think they have cracking analogies for the invocation of A50, but they're almost all universally shite.

    And are the analogies any good?
    Gufffaw.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408

    Also many MPs seem to think they have cracking analogies for the invocation of A50, but they're almost all universally shite.

    And are the analogies any good?
    Like I said, no. They're falling on an embarrassing silence.
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    Scott_P said:
    I am waiting to hear he has picked a fight with the Dalai Lama. I think otherwise he is running out of people to piss off.
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    Also many MPs seem to think they have cracking analogies for the invocation of A50, but they're almost all universally shite.

    And are the analogies any good?
    Do any involve misunderstood Physics/Engineering?
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Ed Balls
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    Scott_P said:
    I am waiting to hear he has picked a fight with the Dalai Lama. I think otherwise he is running out of people to piss off.
    That at least would put him in China's good books.
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    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Both centripetal and centrifugal force are actual things in Newtonian physics. I don't expect you or Scott actually to know anything as difficult as that, but surely you can google this stuff before making prats of yourselves?

    The forces must EXACTLY balance, hence the gag...

    Undergraduate degree #1 was engineering, so I think I some idea. Chance of an apology?
    The forces only exactly balance if the object is traveling in an orbit. If the object escapes it's orbit then it is because the forces didn't exactly balance which is possible.
    No: orbital motion is accelerating so the forces don't balance.
    Gravity is the centripetal force. Centifugal forces are only seen if you are in the frame of reference of the rotating (or orbiting) object.

    Having said all that you missed the obvious mistake: Sean was talking metaphorically so Physics dosen't really apply, but he got the names the wrong way round.
    They do balance on a radial line between the centre of the circle and the object

    (I'm assuming the orbit is a circle. I'm buggered if i'm doing the math for an ellipse)
    Would you like me to start quoting Newton's First Law of motion?
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    You can really tell that barely a quarter of our MPs supported Brexit.

    Speech after speech is being made in the Chamber, here, supporting A50 through very gritted teeth.

    Yeah well they should have thought of that before they backed the referendum bill. Berks.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Also many MPs... but they're almost all universally shite.

    Yep.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,854

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/826553860923731969

    Crickey.
    For crying out loud, you don't beg the press baron to fire the editor. You remind him you know where his kids sleep, you're thinking of reforming the libel laws and has he met your friend with the gun?

    Cameron went up against Putin? Brought a fop to a gun fight... :)
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Scott_P said:
    I am waiting to hear he has picked a fight with the Dalai Lama. I think otherwise he is running out of people to piss off.
    Not saying I entirely agree with this but I thought it was an interesting idea.

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156399716951/outrage-dilution
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    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/826553860923731969

    Crickey.
    For crying out loud, you don't beg the press baron to fire the editor. You remind him you know where his kids sleep, you're thinking of reforming the libel laws and has he met your friend with the gun?

    Cameron went up against Putin? Brought a fop to a gun fight... :)
    I think we have worked out by now that Dave wasn't exactly the best at "negotiating".
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408
    glw said:

    Also many MPs... but they're almost all universally shite.

    Yep.
    Can't say I'd be any different, but it does tickle me that they each think they're about to deliver the Gettysburg address, but actually come across more Tommy Saxondale.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,854

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/826553860923731969

    Crickey.
    For crying out loud, you don't beg the press baron to fire the editor. You remind him you know where his kids sleep, you're thinking of reforming the libel laws and has he met your friend with the gun?

    Cameron went up against Putin? Brought a fop to a gun fight... :)
    I think we have worked out by now that Dave wasn't exactly the best at "negotiating".
    Yep
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    You can really tell that barely a quarter of our MPs supported Brexit.

    Speech after speech is being made in the Chamber, here, supporting A50 through very gritted teeth.

    Well done to them.

    Good evening, everyone.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Will the Russians get the blame? Or the Americans? Someone will. The Russians, probably. Here is what Fillon is saying:

    "To my knowledge, this has never happened before in the history of the Fifth Republic, never less than three months before a presidential election. This extremely powerful and highly professional operation has been launched with the sole goal of eliminating a candidate from the contest by undemocratic means."

    "À ma connaissance, dans l'histoire de la Ve République, cette situation ne s'est jamais produite, jamais à moins de trois mois d'une élection présidentielle. Une opération d'une telle ampleur et aussi professionnelle n'a été montée que pour essayer d'éliminer un candidat autrement que par la voie démocratique."

    C'mon, François, point the finger at someone!

    I'd blame the EU, except I don't think they are that competent
    The French are more than capable of political intrigue and dirty tricks without any outside help.

    PS. There are some reports that Bayrou is getting closer to declaring his candidacy.
    A Bayrou candidacy would boost Fillon (obviously he is working on him) and could be the kiss of death for a Macron presidency this year and ensure a Fillon v Le Pen run off
    Is there any news which you'd regard as positive for Macron?
    You have been going on for weeks how Bayrou deciding not to stand would boost Macron
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    Well I think Newsnight are put quite an unbelievable spin on this...Cameron vs Dacre meant we voted Leave....the fact Dacre and Daily Mail have been anti-EU since the time of the dinosaurs means I doubt it meant bugger all.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    edited January 2017
    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/826557283492585472

    Keiran Pedley ✔ keiranpedley
    Ipsos poll shows Americans back Trump ban by 48% to 41% http://ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=16379

    Who'd have thunk it watching the news.

    Edit: Perhaps I am blind, but the numbers don't say that.
    Edit2: Oh, they do, but what's the second column for?
    Edit3 (on a roll): That's the Democrat column. Interestingly, independents also support it.
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    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Both centripetal and centrifugal force are actual things in Newtonian physics. I don't expect you or Scott actually to know anything as difficult as that, but surely you can google this stuff before making prats of yourselves?

    The forces must EXACTLY balance, hence the gag...

    Undergraduate degree #1 was engineering, so I think I some idea. Chance of an apology?
    The forces only exactly balance if the object is traveling in an orbit. If the object escapes it's orbit then it is because the forces didn't exactly balance which is possible.
    No: orbital motion is accelerating so the forces don't balance.
    Gravity is the centripetal force. Centifugal forces are only seen if you are in the frame of reference of the rotating (or orbiting) object.

    Having said all that you missed the obvious mistake: Sean was talking metaphorically so Physics dosen't really apply, but he got the names the wrong way round.
    They do balance on a radial line between the centre of the circle and the object

    (I'm assuming the orbit is a circle. I'm buggered if i'm doing the math for an ellipse)
    Would you like me to start quoting Newton's First Law of motion?
    My favourite physics joke was from Big Bang Theory where one of the characters was told his situation was like being "attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis"



    Screwed.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/826557283492585472

    Keiran Pedley ✔ keiranpedley
    Ipsos poll shows Americans back Trump ban by 48% to 41% http://ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=16379

    Who'd have thunk it watching the news.

    Edit: Perhaps I am blind, but the numbers don't say that.
    Edit2: Oh, they do, but what's the second column for?
    Edit3 (on a roll): That's the Democrat column. Interestingly, independents also support it.
    Democrats oppose it, yes, GOP and independent voters support it
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    Goupillon said:
    Right, but that just isn't an option. If there's no deal after two years, we are out.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,854

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Both centripetal and centrifugal force are actual things in Newtonian physics. I don't expect you or Scott actually to know anything as difficult as that, but surely you can google this stuff before making prats of yourselves?

    The forces must EXACTLY balance, hence the gag...

    Undergraduate degree #1 was engineering, so I think I some idea. Chance of an apology?
    The forces only exactly balance if the object is traveling in an orbit. If the object escapes it's orbit then it is because the forces didn't exactly balance which is possible.
    No: orbital motion is accelerating so the forces don't balance.
    Gravity is the centripetal force. Centifugal forces are only seen if you are in the frame of reference of the rotating (or orbiting) object.

    Having said all that you missed the obvious mistake: Sean was talking metaphorically so Physics dosen't really apply, but he got the names the wrong way round.
    They do balance on a radial line between the centre of the circle and the object

    (I'm assuming the orbit is a circle. I'm buggered if i'm doing the math for an ellipse)
    Would you like me to start quoting Newton's First Law of motion?
    If it would make you feel better. "Ulysses" usually works for me.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,216
    I am responding to @A View from Cumbria FPT.

    My husband has lived all his life in Cumbria. He is no urban Nimby. He is a planning barrister and is heavily involved in the anti-pylons campaign. There is an alternative which would not involve the desecration of the Duddon Valley and which would still allow the plant to be built and electricity to be provided. There is an arguable case that the National Grid has not complied properly with the relevant planning guidelines. They have decided to put large pylons (far larger than normal ones) in this area precisely because it is only on the edge of the National Park and because it is a relatively unpopulated area so they think they can get away with it. The cost of extending the underground lines to cover this area is only 7% more than what is currently being proposed.

    A beautiful, historic and literary area of our countryside should not be ruined forever for the sake of a false economy.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082
    RobD said:

    Goupillon said:
    Right, but that just isn't an option. If there's no deal after two years, we are out.
    The deal has to be given consent by the parliament so in practice the decision to leave with no deal, or have some kind of extension will need to be made before the 5 minutes to midnight summit meeting.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2017
    Well Newsnight have turned a scoop into a silly hit job into the Mail, Cameron, Coulson, Dacre, and Leave.
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    Scott_P said:
    Since Dacre spent years trying to get Dave sacked, it's hard to see what there is to complain about.
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    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Both centripetal and centrifugal force are actual things in Newtonian physics. I don't expect you or Scott actually to know anything as difficult as that, but surely you can google this stuff before making prats of yourselves?

    The forces must EXACTLY balance, hence the gag...

    Undergraduate degree #1 was engineering, so I think I some idea. Chance of an apology?
    The forces only exactly balance if the object is traveling in an orbit. If the object escapes it's orbit then it is because the forces didn't exactly balance which is possible.
    No: orbital motion is accelerating so the forces don't balance.
    Gravity is the centripetal force. Centifugal forces are only seen if you are in the frame of reference of the rotating (or orbiting) object.

    Having said all that you missed the obvious mistake: Sean was talking metaphorically so Physics dosen't really apply, but he got the names the wrong way round.
    They do balance on a radial line between the centre of the circle and the object

    (I'm assuming the orbit is a circle. I'm buggered if i'm doing the math for an ellipse)
    Would you like me to start quoting Newton's First Law of motion?
    If it would make you feel better. "Ulysses" usually works for me.
    "I know only two tunes: one of them is 'Yankee Doodle', and the other one isn't."
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Goupillon said:
    That implies there is a good deal still on other, plenty of other polls have showed voters would prefer to walk away with no deal than accept a bad deal
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2017
    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/826557283492585472

    It is interesting again how out of touch the US media are. I watched CNN last night and at one point they had 6 panelists on, all against the ban.

    Over the course of 2hrs, they had only 1 person on, a Harvard Law Professor, who said he didn't agree with the ban, but tried to caution all the other guests that it isn't mean all of the XO is unconstitutional and that the AG who resigned was wrong as something being bad policy doesn't mean it isn't your job to defend it.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,289
    Could Senate Democrats filibuster Trump's Supreme Court nominee indefinitely?

    Republicans refused to vote on Garland for a year - so presumably Democrats could now do the same - and indeed for even longer.
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    HYUFD said:

    Goupillon said:
    That implies there is a good deal still on other, plenty of other polls have showed voters would prefer to walk away with no deal than accept a bad deal
    Perhaps the voters would like the option of keeping the status quo rather than having no satisfactory deal?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    MikeL said:

    Could Senate Democrats filibuster Trump's Supreme Court nominee indefinitely?

    Republicans refused to vote on Garland for a year - so presumably Democrats could now do the same - and indeed for even longer.

    Has there not been some changes to the filibuster rules in the Senate recently?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2017
    Goupillon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Goupillon said:
    That implies there is a good deal still on other, plenty of other polls have showed voters would prefer to walk away with no deal than accept a bad deal
    Perhaps the voters would like the option of keeping the status quo rather than having no satisfactory deal?
    Status quo isn't an option as the EU is already pressing ahead with ever closer union, and in all honesty status quo was never an option.
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    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
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    Danny565 said:
    Quite an interesting article, and an interesting if provocative headline, but the two are completely unrelated. Have they mixed up the article with another?
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited January 2017

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be the only beneficiary of any deals.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    But she obviously doesn't mean that, or else she wouldn't still be saying she wanted a trade deal even after Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,996
    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    Has she?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    Has she?
    Yeah that was a question! I thought other commenters on here had said something along those lines.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,748
    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    I listened out for that when May meet Trump. I didn't hear say that she would walk away from a bad deal with the U.S.. She did say that about a deal with the EU. The U.K.NEEDS a deal with the EU. It doesn't with the U.S.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    I listened out for that when May meet Trump. I didn't hear say that she would walk away from a bad deal with the U.S.. She did say that about a deal with the EU. The U.K.NEEDS a deal with the EU. It doesn't with the U.S.
    Yeah, I think that's a reasonable assessment.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited January 2017
    Danny565 said:

    ...even after Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain.

    Why do you keep repeating this utter garbage?

    As I've said before, I don't personally think much will come of any US/UK deal*, but to say that 'Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain' is, how shall I put this politely, fake news, or - as we used to say - a complete lie.

    * Unless perhaps the EU plays silly games and tries to impose severe restrictions on our trade with the Single Market, in which case a deal with the US to substitute for some of the lost trade could be useful.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760
    Danny565 said:

    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain.
    Citation required.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2017
    Emily Maitlis doing a terrible job a) hiding her anti-Trump views and b) holding the Trump spokesman to account by banging on about extremist Roman Emperor Trump, rather than pulling apart why the policy is flawed.

    Oh FFS...I know why I don't watch Newsnight now, bloody Greek failed Finance Minister AGAIN. For a bloke who was only in power for a few days the amount of airtime he gets you would think he was the longest and most successful chancellor in living history.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    Danny565 said:

    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    But she obviously doesn't mean that, or else she wouldn't still be saying she wanted a trade deal even after Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain.
    Even if that is the case, she can still try and walk away in the end.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    I listened out for that when May meet Trump. I didn't hear say that she would walk away from a bad deal with the U.S.. She did say that about a deal with the EU. The U.K.NEEDS a deal with the EU. It doesn't with the U.S.
    This is what I don't get about some right-wing commetators' logic. They say that her showing willingness to walk away from a "bad deal" with the EU is an essential bargaining tactic, so that they have an incentive to give a good deal. That may well be true; but why then do they not extend the same logic to a deal with the US, and instead cheer on May as she desperately runs after Trump and makes it clear to him that she'll take any deal on offer from him?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082

    Oh FFS...I know why I don't watch Newsnight now, bloody Greek failed Finance Minister AGAIN.

    Filmed in the style of a hostage video with ridiculous conspiratorial talk about the 'deep establishment'.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999
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    Scott_P said:

    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999

    Yes, proof that Mrs May's tactics on this are working a treat.

    If our EU friends don't want us to cosy up to Trump, they can make us a better offer.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    ...even after Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain.

    Why do you keep repeating this utter garbage?

    As I've said before, I don't personally think much will come of any US/UK deal*, but to say that 'Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain' is, how shall I put this politely, fake news, or - as we used to say - a complete lie.
    Even if you don't think Trump's inauguration speech made it clear enough, have you seen the MANY things he said about NAFTA and TPP through the campaign? He said time and time again they were too generous to the other parties in the deals, and that they played America for suckers. It's not really a stretch to infer from that that he would insist on terms far more slanted to America in any trade deals that he would sign.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    Scott_P said:

    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999

    He is "endangering worldwide democracy"?

    Well, it's a view... titters
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    I liked Keir starmers speech. Ken Clarke's was brilliant.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Jonathan said:

    I liked Keir starmers speech. Ken Clarke's was brilliant.

    Read Matthew Parris in The Times tomorrow*

    *Brexiteers, don't read it. You won't like it.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082

    Scott_P said:

    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999

    Yes, proof that Mrs May's tactics on this are working a treat.

    If our EU friends don't want us to cosy up to Trump, they can make us a better offer.
    Given that no offer that meets May's red lines would prevent her cosying up to Trump there's a logic failure somewhere in your eulogy to her negotiating skills.
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    Danny565 said:


    Even if you don't think Trump's inauguration speech made it clear enough, have you seen the MANY things he said about NAFTA and TPP through the campaign? He said time and time again they were too generous to the other parties in the deals, and that they played America for suckers. It's not really a stretch to infer from that that he would insist on terms far more slanted to America in any trade deals that he would sign.

    It might not be a stretch to infer it, but you weren't inferring it, you said that 'Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain'. He hasn't, and I'm sure he would say it would be a great deal for Britain.

    If it's not, then we don't sign it. This isn't complicated.
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    Interesting to note that the EUers view of UK leaving and there being a £10bn blackhole is not to even consider that cut spending is a possible option.
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    MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    edited January 2017
    Trump should come on a state visit. The Queen should give him a state banquet. She should sit him next to Prince Charles on one side and Laura Kuenssberg on the other. Other invitees: chair of the Refugee Council, Mo Farrah, Sadiq Khan, Bonnie Greer, Gary Lineker, Prof Brian Cox, Malala Yousafzai and Stephen Hawking.
    If he lasted past the soup course, I'd be amazed.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,329
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:

    Jonathan said:

    I liked Keir starmers speech. Ken Clarke's was brilliant.

    Read Matthew Parris in The Times tomorrow*

    *Brexiteers, don't read it. You won't like it.
    Why not. I complimented both of them on this forum 'live' during the debate, even though I do not agree with them. It is that kind of integrity that is sorely missing in the HOC and HOL
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    Scott_P said:

    Jonathan said:

    I liked Keir starmers speech. Ken Clarke's was brilliant.

    Read Matthew Parris in The Times tomorrow*

    *Brexiteers, don't read it. You won't like it.
    Trigger warning acknowledged.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2017
    MrsB said:

    Trump should come on a state visit. The Queen should give him a state banquet. She should sit him next to Prince Charles on one side and Laura Kuenssberg on the other. Other invitees: chair of the Refugee Council, Mo Farrah, Sadiq Khan, Bonnie Greer, Gary Lineker, Prof Brian Cox, Malala Yousafzai and Stephen Hawking.
    If he lasted past the soup course, I'd be amazed.

    Would anybody last past the soup course with that kind of line up? Sounds like a dinner party from hell to me as those you most want to hear will get drowned by some right old big mouths. Mo ain't getting a word in edge ways in that company.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030

    Interesting to note that the EUers view of UK leaving and there being a £10bn blackhole is not to even consider that cut spending is a possible option.

    Tell that to Merkel
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,748
    Danny565 said:

    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:
    What was stopping them selling it to a French or German company before Brexit?
    They weren't running round desperate to do a deal with someone who's made it clear he wants America to be be in sole control of any deals.
    Hasn't May herself said she'd walk away from a bad US deal?
    I listened out for that when May meet Trump. I didn't hear say that she would walk away from a bad deal with the U.S.. She did say that about a deal with the EU. The U.K.NEEDS a deal with the EU. It doesn't with the U.S.
    This is what I don't get about some right-wing commetators' logic. They say that her showing willingness to walk away from a "bad deal" with the EU is an essential bargaining tactic, so that they have an incentive to give a good deal. That may well be true; but why then do they not extend the same logic to a deal with the US, and instead cheer on May as she desperately runs after Trump and makes it clear to him that she'll take any deal on offer from him?
    There will be a deal with the EU. It won't be a good deal or probably even a really bad deal. It will the deal that is achievable in the circumstances, which aren't to our advantage.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited January 2017



    If it's not, then we don't sign it. This isn't complicated.

    This seems to me like a very naive view, in light of May's obvious desperation and neediness in Washington last week.

    Again, if she really wasn't willing to sign ANY deal, no matter how bad, with the US, then she would've already cut the topic off altogether after Trump's "America first" talk.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Elizabeth Warren says that Tillerson is superb at diplomacy, and was excellent at advancing the interests of Exxon whilst in charge :)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Goupillon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Goupillon said:
    That implies there is a good deal still on other, plenty of other polls have showed voters would prefer to walk away with no deal than accept a bad deal
    Perhaps the voters would like the option of keeping the status quo rather than having no satisfactory deal?
    The status quo now being full withdrawal from the EU given they have just voted for it
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030

    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/826557283492585472

    It is interesting again how out of touch the US media are. I watched CNN last night and at one point they had 6 panelists on, all against the ban.

    Over the course of 2hrs, they had only 1 person on, a Harvard Law Professor, who said he didn't agree with the ban, but tried to caution all the other guests that it isn't mean all of the XO is unconstitutional and that the AG who resigned was wrong as something being bad policy doesn't mean it isn't your job to defend it.
    Though Fox has a rather different take
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,854

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Both centripetal and centrifugal force are actual things in Newtonian physics. I don't expect you or Scott actually to know anything as difficult as that, but surely you can google this stuff before making prats of yourselves?

    The forces must EXACTLY balance, hence the gag...

    Undergraduate degree #1 was engineering, so I think I some idea. Chance of an apology?
    The forces only exactly balance if the object is traveling in an orbit. If the object escapes it's orbit then it is because the forces didn't exactly balance which is possible.
    No: orbital motion is accelerating so the forces don't balance.
    Gravity is the centripetal force. Centifugal forces are only seen if you are in the frame of reference of the rotating (or orbiting) object.

    Having said all that you missed the obvious mistake: Sean was talking metaphorically so Physics dosen't really apply, but he got the names the wrong way round.
    They do balance on a radial line between the centre of the circle and the object

    (I'm assuming the orbit is a circle. I'm buggered if i'm doing the math for an ellipse)
    Would you like me to start quoting Newton's First Law of motion?
    If it would make you feel better. "Ulysses" usually works for me.
    "I know only two tunes: one of them is 'Yankee Doodle', and the other one isn't."
    Boom-tish!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    MrsB said:

    Trump should come on a state visit. The Queen should give him a state banquet. She should sit him next to Prince Charles on one side and Laura Kuenssberg on the other. Other invitees: chair of the Refugee Council, Mo Farrah, Sadiq Khan, Bonnie Greer, Gary Lineker, Prof Brian Cox, Malala Yousafzai and Stephen Hawking.
    If he lasted past the soup course, I'd be amazed.

    Thankfully HM is above such petty things.
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999

    He is "endangering worldwide democracy"?

    Well, it's a view... titters
    It's a very reasonable view. Fake news, purging dissent, being Russia's useful idiot. All these things are bad for democracy
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    Scott_P said:

    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999

    Yes, proof that Mrs May's tactics on this are working a treat.

    If our EU friends don't want us to cosy up to Trump, they can make us a better offer.
    Given that no offer that meets May's red lines would prevent her cosying up to Trump there's a logic failure somewhere in your eulogy to her negotiating skills.
    As was discussed on the paper review tonight Theresa May's popularity is with the Republicans and that is the importance of the relationship.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030

    Emily Maitlis doing a terrible job a) hiding her anti-Trump views and b) holding the Trump spokesman to account by banging on about extremist Roman Emperor Trump, rather than pulling apart why the policy is flawed.

    Oh FFS...I know why I don't watch Newsnight now, bloody Greek failed Finance Minister AGAIN. For a bloke who was only in power for a few days the amount of airtime he gets you would think he was the longest and most successful chancellor in living history.

    The Trump spokesman is Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant to the President and born and raised in London.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Gorka

    Varoufakis actually had some interesting things to say on a universal basic income and automation
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Emily Maitlis doing a terrible job a) hiding her anti-Trump views and b) holding the Trump spokesman to account by banging on about extremist Roman Emperor Trump, rather than pulling apart why the policy is flawed.

    Oh FFS...I know why I don't watch Newsnight now, bloody Greek failed Finance Minister AGAIN. For a bloke who was only in power for a few days the amount of airtime he gets you would think he was the longest and most successful chancellor in living history.

    The Trump spokesman is Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant to the President and born and raised in London.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Gorka

    Varoufakis actually had some interesting things to say on a universal basic income and automation
    It appears he knows just what it is like to be detained by officials at the airport even thought you have the right visas...

    Gorka was detained January 31, 2016 at the Ronald Reagan Airport in Washington D.C. for attempting to board a plane with a 9mm handgun in his luggage.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Danny565 said:



    If it's not, then we don't sign it. This isn't complicated.

    This seems to me like a very naive view, in light of May's obvious desperation and neediness in Washington last week.

    Again, if she really wasn't willing to sign ANY deal, no matter how bad, with the US, then she would've already cut the topic off altogether after Trump's "America first" talk.
    She clear wants to get a good deal but as she made clear to GOP congressman in that speech she will only sign a deal which benefits both sides, the UK already has a trade surplus with the US we do not need a deal with them that much
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited January 2017

    Given that no offer that meets May's red lines would prevent her cosying up to Trump there's a logic failure somewhere in your eulogy to her negotiating skills.

    The EU has a choice: does it turn its back on the UK, and suffer all the attendant damage to its own economies, or does it try to come up with some kind of free trade agreement which minimises the damage? Economic logic pushes them to the latter course, but there are significant political forces which will push them (or some of them) towards the former.

    The PM's task is to push them towards some fudge which they can present as respecting the 'four freedoms' and not allowing us to 'cherry-pick', whilst in reality doing as much of the opposite as possible. Since this is very much in their own interests, that is not an economic argument, it's a political one. She is giving the grown-ups amongst them an argument they can use on our behalf: that, if they shun us, we will be forced to cosy up to the US, setting up an American Trojan Horse on the very borders of the EU.

    Will it work? Dunno. There's a significant risk that it won't, that the EU will shoot itself (and us) in the foot because of excessive ideological purity. That indeed was my principal reason for voting Remain. But, in Mrs May's shoes, I'd be trying to run the same wheeze - a bit of stick to make the carrot more palatable.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082

    Scott_P said:

    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999

    Yes, proof that Mrs May's tactics on this are working a treat.

    If our EU friends don't want us to cosy up to Trump, they can make us a better offer.
    Given that no offer that meets May's red lines would prevent her cosying up to Trump there's a logic failure somewhere in your eulogy to her negotiating skills.
    As was discussed on the paper review tonight Theresa May's popularity is with the Republicans and that is the importance of the relationship.
    She is extremely exposed to staying in Trump's good books now...

    I could have said, "Theresa, drop to your knees," she would have dropped to her knees. She was begging me for a trade deal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XCy-vYMJs
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030

    HYUFD said:

    Emily Maitlis doing a terrible job a) hiding her anti-Trump views and b) holding the Trump spokesman to account by banging on about extremist Roman Emperor Trump, rather than pulling apart why the policy is flawed.

    Oh FFS...I know why I don't watch Newsnight now, bloody Greek failed Finance Minister AGAIN. For a bloke who was only in power for a few days the amount of airtime he gets you would think he was the longest and most successful chancellor in living history.

    The Trump spokesman is Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant to the President and born and raised in London.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Gorka

    Varoufakis actually had some interesting things to say on a universal basic income and automation
    It appears he knows just what it is like to be detained by officials at the airport...

    Gorka was detained January 31, 2016 at the Ronald Reagan Airport in Washington D.C. for attempting to board a plane with a 9mm handgun in his luggage.
    Which he owned up to
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Emily Maitlis doing a terrible job a) hiding her anti-Trump views and b) holding the Trump spokesman to account by banging on about extremist Roman Emperor Trump, rather than pulling apart why the policy is flawed.

    Oh FFS...I know why I don't watch Newsnight now, bloody Greek failed Finance Minister AGAIN. For a bloke who was only in power for a few days the amount of airtime he gets you would think he was the longest and most successful chancellor in living history.

    The Trump spokesman is Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant to the President and born and raised in London.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Gorka

    Varoufakis actually had some interesting things to say on a universal basic income and automation
    It appears he knows just what it is like to be detained by officials at the airport...

    Gorka was detained January 31, 2016 at the Ronald Reagan Airport in Washington D.C. for attempting to board a plane with a 9mm handgun in his luggage.
    Which he owned up to
    I am joking.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Emily Maitlis doing a terrible job a) hiding her anti-Trump views and b) holding the Trump spokesman to account by banging on about extremist Roman Emperor Trump, rather than pulling apart why the policy is flawed.

    Oh FFS...I know why I don't watch Newsnight now, bloody Greek failed Finance Minister AGAIN. For a bloke who was only in power for a few days the amount of airtime he gets you would think he was the longest and most successful chancellor in living history.

    The Trump spokesman is Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant to the President and born and raised in London.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Gorka

    Varoufakis actually had some interesting things to say on a universal basic income and automation
    It appears he knows just what it is like to be detained by officials at the airport...

    Gorka was detained January 31, 2016 at the Ronald Reagan Airport in Washington D.C. for attempting to board a plane with a 9mm handgun in his luggage.
    Which he owned up to
    I am joking.
    Was it a spherical gun?

    Oh.. we've moved on :(
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    Scott_P said:

    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999

    Yes, proof that Mrs May's tactics on this are working a treat.

    If our EU friends don't want us to cosy up to Trump, they can make us a better offer.
    Given that no offer that meets May's red lines would prevent her cosying up to Trump there's a logic failure somewhere in your eulogy to her negotiating skills.
    As was discussed on the paper review tonight Theresa May's popularity is with the Republicans and that is the importance of the relationship.
    She is extremely exposed to staying in Trump's good books now...

    I could have said, "Theresa, drop to your knees," she would have dropped to her knees. She was begging me for a trade deal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XCy-vYMJs
    Spin from someone who wants to remain and does not like a close relationship with the US
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    ...even after Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain.

    Why do you keep repeating this utter garbage?

    As I've said before, I don't personally think much will come of any US/UK deal*, but to say that 'Trump has made clear any deal would be bad for Britain' is, how shall I put this politely, fake news, or - as we used to say - a complete lie.
    Even if you don't think Trump's inauguration speech made it clear enough, have you seen the MANY things he said about NAFTA and TPP through the campaign? He said time and time again they were too generous to the other parties in the deals, and that they played America for suckers. It's not really a stretch to infer from that that he would insist on terms far more slanted to America in any trade deals that he would sign.
    Oh dear. I've been out, seen La La Land, had dinner and cocktails, and you're still doom mongering about hypothetical trade deals. Even Southam's eeyore routine is preferable...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Did the HoC have a vote this evening ?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082

    Spin from someone who wants to remain and does not like a close relationship with the US

    I want a close relationship with the US but not a subservient one.

    Have you ever noticed that for all the talk of being a bridge between the US and Europe, when a British PM is in Washington they never mention the rest of our continent?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    Did the HoC have a vote this evening ?

    They are still debating
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979

    Spin from someone who wants to remain and does not like a close relationship with the US

    I want a close relationship with the US but not a subservient one.

    Have you ever noticed that for all the talk of being a bridge between the US and Europe, when a British PM is in Washington they never mention the rest of our continent?
    Didn't May mention Europe in her speech?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030

    Scott_P said:

    Europe's socialist leader has accused Donald Trump of using the UK as a Trojan horse to destroy the European Union.

    Gianni Pittella, leader of the Party of European Socialists (PES), blasted Theresa May for making a "very big mistake" by getting close to the new US President, saying he is endangering worldwide democracy.

    Speaking to Sky News, Mr Pittella pleaded for Britain "not to help this project, which would be a disaster for the UK itself".


    http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-is-using-uk-to-destroy-the-eu-says-socialist-leader-10749999

    Yes, proof that Mrs May's tactics on this are working a treat.

    If our EU friends don't want us to cosy up to Trump, they can make us a better offer.
    Given that no offer that meets May's red lines would prevent her cosying up to Trump there's a logic failure somewhere in your eulogy to her negotiating skills.
    As was discussed on the paper review tonight Theresa May's popularity is with the Republicans and that is the importance of the relationship.
    She is extremely exposed to staying in Trump's good books now...

    I could have said, "Theresa, drop to your knees," she would have dropped to her knees. She was begging me for a trade deal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XCy-vYMJs
    Arguably Trump needs a trade deal with the UK more than the UK needs one with the US given the US has a deficit with the UK and the UK a surplus with the US, however May's sweetening of Trump ensures that he will not slam tariffs on UK goods as he will on Mexican, Chinese and maybe German goods if no deal is reached. However if no deal is reached with the EU and they slam tariffs on UK goods the UK will slam tariffs on EU goods and of course we do have a deficit with the EU unlike with the US
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082
    RobD said:

    Spin from someone who wants to remain and does not like a close relationship with the US

    I want a close relationship with the US but not a subservient one.

    Have you ever noticed that for all the talk of being a bridge between the US and Europe, when a British PM is in Washington they never mention the rest of our continent?
    Didn't May mention Europe in her speech?
    Don't spoil my point with facts. :)
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    I can't see Jezza having any problems during a month long GE campaign...the press have nothing to go at.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    May's sweetening of Trump ensures that he will not slam tariffs on UK goods as he will on Mexican, Chinese and maybe German goods if no deal is reached.

    *cough*Bollocks*cough*

    He has already complained that Europeans don't buy as many Chevy's as American's buy BMWs

    Now, we know the reason for that, but by his logic he will only want us to export Range Rovers if we import an equal number of Suburbans
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    Why do the SNP think Scotland, and especially the Scottish Government is an equal partner?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    May's sweetening of Trump ensures that he will not slam tariffs on UK goods as he will on Mexican, Chinese and maybe German goods if no deal is reached.

    *cough*Bollocks*cough*

    He has already complained that Europeans don't buy as many Chevy's as American's buy BMWs

    Now, we know the reason for that, but by his logic he will only want us to export Range Rovers if we import an equal number of Suburbans
    Amazing how many crap trade deals anti-Brexit anti-Mayites can come up with.

    Unsurprisingly, no such deals will be signed.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760

    I can't see Jezza having any problems during a month long GE campaign...the press have nothing to go at.
    Yesterday Jezza accused Thatcher of supporting apartheid - which people from Mandela to FW DeKlerk have rubbished - great Thatcher quote on asked about the difference between the IRA and the ANC: The IRA have the vote. The ANC do not.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Mortimer said:

    Amazing how many crap trade deals anti-Brexit anti-Mayites can come up with.

    Unsurprisingly, no such deals will be signed.

    Yes, that's the point.
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    Scott_P said:
    The bloke they had on Newsnight from Team Trump was far more competent that than idiot.
This discussion has been closed.