Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Larger sums of cash paid to his wife and children.
Virtually the same 'dirt' as Canard ran with last week, despite which Sunday's Le Figaro poll still had Fillon second and in the run off with Le Pen
Second by only 1%.
His numbers are only going in one direction at the moment.
A poll last month had Macron second, despite everything the establishment liberal left media threw at him last week Fillon was still second at the end of it
1. The EU is not going to break up any time soon (although it's conceivable that Greece might fall out of the Euro, not before time).
2. The EU is being entirely rational in thinking that, faced with a lurch to US protectionism and isolationism, the answer is for the EU27 to remain united. In fact, from their point of view, 'more Europe' is a sensible answer to Trump's crude attempts to throw his weight around, plus the other risks identified in Tusk's letter. What you absolutely have to understand is that the EU is largely built on the wish to resist US hegemony. Of course Trumpism will reinforce that tendency; that's entirely natural.
3. Brexit is obviously a complicating factor in this from the point of view of the EU27, but it's also an opportunity for them. Free of the dead weight of the UK, they can get on with closer union. Good for them, we should wish them well.
You underestimate the misery caused by the euro. This isn't a chortling matter
The centripetal forces within the EU are, arguably, just as strong as the centrifugal.
Usually, nations are formed in opposition to "the other" - cf the formation of Britain against the menacing "other" of Catholic France and Spain. And it would seem the time is ripe for otherisation of America, Britain, Asia, Islam, by the EU, to forge a true EU identity.
But. But but but. The EU simply isn't working for too many people. I see trouble ahead.
The Euro hasn't fallen 15% in six months.
A freely floating exchange rate floating by 15% either direction is not misery.
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Still waiting to see the news stating Trump will be taking "all control" over the British economy and NHS.
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Still waiting to see the news stating Trump will be taking "all control" over the British economy and NHS.
Again: read Trump's inauguration speech. Do you really think, in line with that speech, that any trade deal he'd be willing to sign would not involve a loss of British control which is at least as heavy as the control we gave up to the EU?
But that about a third of the French might be about to vote for a candidate who could well advocate withdrawal from the EU is of itself a measure of the situation. It's something that would have been unthinkable even five years ago.
Does this level of support for Calexit mean that the writing is on the wall for the USA?
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Apart from Farage and probably not him who has ever said that? Certainly not May who has been respectful of the EU and Trump but prepared to fight for the best deal for Britain which respects the Brexit vote
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Still waiting to see the news stating Trump will be taking "all control" over the British economy and NHS.
Again: read Trump's inauguration speech. Do you really think, in line with that speech, that any trade deal he'd be willing to sign would not involve a loss of British control which is at least as heavy as the control we gave up to the EU?
No I don't, and I certainly don't think it will involve relinquishing 'all control' as you originally claimed.
But that about a third of the French might be about to vote for a candidate who could well advocate withdrawal from the EU is of itself a measure of the situation. It's something that would have been unthinkable even five years ago.
Does this level of support for Calexit mean that the writing is on the wall for the USA?
But that about a third of the French might be about to vote for a candidate who could well advocate withdrawal from the EU is of itself a measure of the situation. It's something that would have been unthinkable even five years ago.
Does this level of support for Calexit mean that the writing is on the wall for the USA?
Larger sums of cash paid to his wife and children.
Virtually the same 'dirt' as Canard ran with last week, despite which Sunday's Le Figaro poll still had Fillon second and in the run off with Le Pen
Papers were reporting 500k last week, latest reports are saying closer to a million. I think the next poll might do for him.
Leftwing and liberal establishment papers will spin what they want to spin the main news story has already broken and his core base still puts him ahead of Macron
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Apart from Farage and probably not him who has ever said that? Certainly not May who has been respectful of the EU and Trump but prepared to fight for the best deal for Britain which respects the Brexit vote
She's said she wants to sign a trade deal with Trump, even after Trump's made clear that any deals would involve massive concessions and loss of control from the other country.
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Still waiting to see the news stating Trump will be taking "all control" over the British economy and NHS.
Again: read Trump's inauguration speech. Do you really think, in line with that speech, that any trade deal he'd be willing to sign would not involve a loss of British control which is at least as heavy as the control we gave up to the EU?
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Apart from Farage and probably not him who has ever said that? Certainly not May who has been respectful of the EU and Trump but prepared to fight for the best deal for Britain which respects the Brexit vote
She's said she wants to sign a trade deal with Trump, even after Trump's made clear that any deals would involve massive concessions and loss of control from the other country.
She said she wanted and would only sign a deal which benefits BOTH sides
1. The EU is not going to break up any time soon (although it's conceivable that Greece might fall out of the Euro, not before time).
2. The EU is being entirely rational in thinking that, faced with a lurch to US protectionism and isolationism, the answer is for the EU27 to remain united. In fact, from their point of view, 'more Europe' is a sensible answer to Trump's crude attempts to throw his weight around, plus the other risks identified in Tusk's letter. What you absolutely have to understand is that the EU is largely built on the wish to resist US hegemony. Of course Trumpism will reinforce that tendency; that's entirely natural.
3. Brexit is obviously a complicating factor in this from the point of view of the EU27, but it's also an opportunity for them. Free of the dead weight of the UK, they can get on with closer union. Good for them, we should wish them well.
You underestimate the misery caused by the euro. This isn't a chortling matter
The centripetal forces within the EU are, arguably, just as strong as the centrifugal.
Usually, nations are formed in opposition to "the other" - cf the formation of Britain against the menacing "other" of Catholic France and Spain. And it would seem the time is ripe for otherisation of America, Britain, Asia, Islam, by the EU, to forge a true EU identity.
But. But but but. The EU simply isn't working for too many people. I see trouble ahead.
The Euro hasn't fallen 15% in six months.
"In perhaps the most striking development, European Union statistics agency Eurostat said inflation across the 19 countries that share the euro currency rose sharply in January — a move that will likely encourage critics who think it’s time for the European Central Bank to start withdrawing its stimulus programs.
Inflation jumped to an annual 1.8 percent in January, from 1.1 percent the month before."
For reference, UK inflation is lower at 1.6%. There seems to be some kind of disconnect between the falling/rising currency and cost of living argument we've seen deployed on here for months and months.
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Apart from Farage and probably not him who has ever said that? Certainly not May who has been respectful of the EU and Trump but prepared to fight for the best deal for Britain which respects the Brexit vote
She's said she wants to sign a trade deal with Trump, even after Trump's made clear that any deals would involve massive concessions and loss of control from the other country.
I cannot see a US-UK trade deal that does not require the UK government to accept the decisions of US ISDS Tribunals that meet in secret, and are able to over-rule parliament.
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
You still haven't come up with any evidence they we will get anything else. More than that, if the deal she gets is crap, then when Labour pulls its head out of its ass and gets elected, it can change the deal. Democracy in action.
The real fear from our left leaning friends about Trump is, I believe, not that May will get a crap deal from him, so much as with Labour heading off into unelectable La-La land for the foreseeable future, they wont be able to get their own man to change the deal to something more to their liking.
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Apart from Farage and probably not him who has ever said that? Certainly not May who has been respectful of the EU and Trump but prepared to fight for the best deal for Britain which respects the Brexit vote
She's said she wants to sign a trade deal with Trump, even after Trump's made clear that any deals would involve massive concessions and loss of control from the other country.
She said she wanted and would only sign a deal which benefits BOTH sides
Except Trump made it clear on his first day in office that any trade deals he signs would ONLY benefit the US, and yet even after that May still says she wants to do one.
To British eyes it is quite unusually anti-American.
Continental Europeans simply don't feel the ties of blood, history, language, culture that we feel, with the rest of the Anglosphere. And that's totally understandable. When troubles arise, and I mean deep serious troubles, our instinct is to ask what do the Americans think, and also the Canadian, Aussies, etc. Do we stand together? You saw it in the mic drop meme between Prince Harry, Obama and Trudeau. That entire thing could not have happened between Merkel, Hollande, Cameron. It would have been embarrassing.
These differing attitudes underpin Brexit.
Really don't think I could disagree much more with the idea that the average Brit is "pro-American". If anything, it was the anti-American British instinct that mainly turned round the EU referendum: the day after Obama's "back of the queue" nonsense, my work was buzzing with people outraged at "arrogant Americans" thinking they could boss us about. As I said at the time on PB:-
ANECDOTE ALERT
I think the Obama thing could play very badly for Remain. At my work this morning, people (even ones who said they liked Obama generally) were incensed at the idea of "America again coming over and treating us like their poodle, telling us what to do".
We all project our social circles. I've never met anyone who took the slightest interest in what Canada or Australia thought, but I've sometimes met people interested in German views as they are perceived to be important for Britain. As Danny says there tends to be a negative correlation with the USA - not only with lefties. Sean obviously has a different experience. But in reality most people don't actually pay much attention to what ANY foreign country thinks. Many only just about bother to follow what our own government thinks. It would be nice if it were otherwise!
Decision-makers, on the other hand, do pay attention to the USA, sometimes more than people think they should (cf. Blair and perhaps May). But Canada, Australia? Not much.
Have PBers actually read/watched the sections of the Trump inauguration speech relating to trade deals?? Or have they just repressed the memory of what he said?
Except Trump made it clear on his first day in office that any trade deals he signs would ONLY benefit the US, and yet even after that May still says she wants to do one.
Of course she does. Were you born yesterday? There's a negotiation with the EU coming up.
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Apart from Farage and probably not him who has ever said that? Certainly not May who has been respectful of the EU and Trump but prepared to fight for the best deal for Britain which respects the Brexit vote
She's said she wants to sign a trade deal with Trump, even after Trump's made clear that any deals would involve massive concessions and loss of control from the other country.
She said she wanted and would only sign a deal which benefits BOTH sides
Except Trump made it clear on his first day in office that any trade deals he signs would ONLY benefit the US, and yet even after that May still says she wants to do one.
No he did not. He made it clear that any trade deals WOULD benefit the US. Not that they could not potentially be win/win deals that benefit both nations.
Have PBers actually read/watched the sections of the Trump inauguration speech relating to trade deals?? Or have they just repressed the memory of what he said?
You are glossing over the rather large area of deals which benefit both sides. Its not a zero sum game. Trump said he will only sign deal which are only of benefit to the US, that does not mean he is against deals which are ALSO of benefit to other parties. He promised the American people that he would not sign trade deals where they get screwed over, and he won't, are you suggesting we were hoping to have a trade deal that screwed over Uncle Sam ?
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Apart from Farage and probably not him who has ever said that? Certainly not May who has been respectful of the EU and Trump but prepared to fight for the best deal for Britain which respects the Brexit vote
She's said she wants to sign a trade deal with Trump, even after Trump's made clear that any deals would involve massive concessions and loss of control from the other country.
She said she wanted and would only sign a deal which benefits BOTH sides
Except Trump made it clear on his first day in office that any trade deals he signs would ONLY benefit the US, and yet even after that May still says she wants to do one.
Presumably she understands that Trump uses hyperbole and that negotiations begin with both sides at an extreme position. She's also demonstrated her understanding that walking away is better than a bad deal. All lessons lost on her predecessor.
Downside of Brexit: hearing more ill-informed nonsense about how awful trade deals will be as we Take Back Control (TM) of our external trading relations.
Have PBers actually read/watched the sections of the Trump inauguration speech relating to trade deals?? Or have they just repressed the memory of what he said?
Most here have heard/read the speech – they’ve just not reach the same conclusions as you.
Downside of Brexit: hearing more ill-informed nonsense about how awful trade deals will be as we Take Back Control (TM) of our external trading relations.
Which is amplified by the (understandable) despair of left wingers of ever getting their people back in power so they can change the deals to something more to their liking.
Except Trump made it clear on his first day in office that any trade deals he signs would ONLY benefit the US, and yet even after that May still says she wants to do one.
Of course she does. Were you born yesterday? There's a negotiation with the EU coming up.
So you think this gambit strengthens her negotiating hand with the EU. OK, but by the same principle, don't you think it makes her negotiating hand with Trump astonishingly weak when she's saying to him she's desperate for a deal with him and wouldn't walk away from a US-UK deal no matter how unfavourable the terms were to us?
Have PBers actually read/watched the sections of the Trump inauguration speech relating to trade deals?? Or have they just repressed the memory of what he said?
You are glossing over the rather large area of deals which benefit both sides. Its not a zero sum game. Trump said he will only sign deal which are only of benefit to the US, that does not mean he is against deals which are ALSO of benefit to other parties. He promised the American people that he would not sign trade deals where they get screwed over, and he won't, are you suggesting we were hoping to have a trade deal that screwed over Uncle Sam ?
Even if this is how trade deals work in reality, it's 100% NOT how Trump sees trade deals. Rightly or wrongly, as he made clear in his inauguration speech and throughout his campaign, he sees trade deals as zero-sum games -- if another country/countries in a trade deal is gaining some ground from a deal, then America is losing ground (and vice versa). So any trade deals he strikes with us will obviously follow that logic.
The LDs did so abysmally in Leave areas in 2015, even worse than the 8% they got nationally, the only way is up for them there however they still came fourth in Sleaford, the only Parliamentary by election in a Leave area since the referendum
So you think this gambit strengthens her negotiating hand with the EU. OK, but by the same principle, don't you think it makes her negotiating hand with Trump astonishingly weak when she's saying to him she's desperate for a deal with him and wouldn't walk away from a US-UK deal no matter how unfavourable the terms were to us?
He seems as desperate as she does.
In practice, neither is desperate. I don't actually expect much to come of it; the main areas where the US would want to sell us more (healthcare, GM foods) are politically fraught, and on the other side the US is unlikely to want to open up its markets under Trump - quite the reverse in fact.
But it's useful play-acting for both sides. In particular, playing the US off against the EU is very handy for the PM as the EU negotiations approach.
Have PBers actually read/watched the sections of the Trump inauguration speech relating to trade deals?? Or have they just repressed the memory of what he said?
You are glossing over the rather large area of deals which benefit both sides. Its not a zero sum game. Trump said he will only sign deal which are only of benefit to the US, that does not mean he is against deals which are ALSO of benefit to other parties. He promised the American people that he would not sign trade deals where they get screwed over, and he won't, are you suggesting we were hoping to have a trade deal that screwed over Uncle Sam ?
Even if this is how trade deals work in reality, it's 100% NOT how Trump sees trade deals. Rightly or wrongly, as he made clear in his inauguration speech and throughout his campaign, he sees trade deals as zero-sum games -- if another country/countries in a trade deal is gaining some ground from a deal, then America is losing ground (and vice versa). So any trade deals he strikes with us will obviously follow that logic.
[Citation needed].
You appear to be confusing "only trade deals that benefit the US" with "trade deals which benefit only the US".
To British eyes it is quite unusually anti-American.
Continental Europeans simply don't feel the ties of blood, history, language, culture that we feel, with the rest of the Anglosphere. And that's totally understandable. When troubles arise, and I mean deep serious troubles, our instinct is to ask what do the Americans think, and also the Canadian, Aussies, etc. Do we stand together? You saw it in the mic drop meme between Prince Harry, Obama and Trudeau. That entire thing could not have happened between Merkel, Hollande, Cameron. It would have been embarrassing.
These differing attitudes underpin Brexit.
Really don't think I could disagree much more with the idea that the average Brit is "pro-American". If anything, it was the anti-American British instinct that mainly turned round the EU referendum: the day after Obama's "back of the queue" nonsense, my work was buzzing with people outraged at "arrogant Americans" thinking they could boss us about. As I said at the time on PB:-
ANECDOTE ALERT
I think the Obama thing could play very badly for Remain. At my work this morning, people (even ones who said they liked Obama generally) were incensed at the idea of "America again coming over and treating us like their poodle, telling us what to do".
The European Union will have to establish new global trading partnerships if its traditional economic and political ally the United States heads down a path of protectionism, Eurogroup President Jeroen Dijsselbloem said on Tuesday.
"We don't yet know if that is going to happen," Dijsselbloem told the RTL broadcaster. "Europe must not sit back and blindly wait for what happens in the United States, but move ahead itself, also in the area of trade."
Have PBers actually read/watched the sections of the Trump inauguration speech relating to trade deals?? Or have they just repressed the memory of what he said?
You are glossing over the rather large area of deals which benefit both sides. Its not a zero sum game. Trump said he will only sign deal which are only of benefit to the US, that does not mean he is against deals which are ALSO of benefit to other parties. He promised the American people that he would not sign trade deals where they get screwed over, and he won't, are you suggesting we were hoping to have a trade deal that screwed over Uncle Sam ?
Even if this is how trade deals work in reality, it's 100% NOT how Trump sees trade deals. Rightly or wrongly, as he made clear in his inauguration speech and throughout his campaign, he sees trade deals as zero-sum games -- if another country/countries in a trade deal is gaining some ground from a deal, then America is losing ground (and vice versa). So any trade deals he strikes with us will obviously follow that logic.
Just because he sees trade deals that way (does he?) doesn't mean they are that way. It might be possible to design a zero-sum trade deal such as you describe, but goodness knows why we'd sign it. Your dislike of Trump and/or May and/or Brexit is blinding you to rather a lot here.
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on travel and the proposed state visit. The 2nd story is Trump sacking the acting Ag.
Larger sums of cash paid to his wife and children.
Virtually the same 'dirt' as Canard ran with last week, despite which Sunday's Le Figaro poll still had Fillon second and in the run off with Le Pen
But the gap has narrowed to 1%...
Yet still ahead despite the attacks on him and Hamon rather than Valls
We get it; you're sceptical of Macron :laugh:
He is Clegg crossed with Blair with a French accent
From a progressive, liberal and European perspective, the best results in the French and German elections would be wins for Macron and Schulz respectively.
It isn't too hard to envisage ways that the UK and US can scratch each other's backs when they both have enormous trade deficits.
Yes. So we buy less from the EU and more from the USA. The USA spends a bit more from the UK and we end up with the USA gaining and the UK gaining and the EU losing.
Mr. Taker, I didn't bother watching the news at ten last night. Trump's daft executive order is a significant story but I didn't need it regurgitating again.
What odds that the next by-election will be for the Rushcliffe, Notts constituency, where the incumbent Tory MP has a 14k majority. Come on Shadsy be a sport, how's about offering me 20/1 ..... say my £5 against your £100?
Theresa May (and a lot of PB Brexiteers) don't seem to understand that a lot of Leave voters really meant what they said when they said they wanted independence and British control over our own affairs. They didn't mean they were happy to be controlled by another country, as long as it was the US instead of Europe.
Apart from Farage and probably not him who has ever said that? Certainly not May who has been respectful of the EU and Trump but prepared to fight for the best deal for Britain which respects the Brexit vote
She's said she wants to sign a trade deal with Trump, even after Trump's made clear that any deals would involve massive concessions and loss of control from the other country.
I cannot see a US-UK trade deal that does not require the UK government to accept the decisions of US ISDS Tribunals that meet in secret, and are able to over-rule parliament.
So you think this gambit strengthens her negotiating hand with the EU. OK, but by the same principle, don't you think it makes her negotiating hand with Trump astonishingly weak when she's saying to him she's desperate for a deal with him and wouldn't walk away from a US-UK deal no matter how unfavourable the terms were to us?
He seems as desperate as she does.
In practice, neither is desperate. I don't actually expect much to come of it; the main areas where the US would want to sell us more (healthcare, GM foods) are politically fraught, and on the other side the US is unlikely to want to open up its markets under Trump - quite the reverse in fact.
But it's useful play-acting for both sides. In particular, playing the US off against the EU is very handy for the PM as the EU negotiations approach.
With all due respect, Richard: if you get this, then there is an outside chance that the French and Germans may, too.
You underestimate the misery caused by the euro. This isn't a chortling matter
The centripetal forces within the EU are, arguably, just as strong as the centrifugal.
Usually, nations are formed in opposition to "the other" - cf the formation of Britain against the menacing "other" of Catholic France and Spain. And it would seem the time is ripe for otherisation of America, Britain, Asia, Islam, by the EU, to forge a true EU identity.
But. But but but. The EU simply isn't working for too many people. I see trouble ahead.
I don't underestimate it, but in most of the countries which are badly affected, the Euro is still popular. Even Greece, although reality is gradually beating them out of their love of the Euro.
Yes, there's trouble ahead. But Trump is pushing them together, not pushing them apart. He's actually providing a rather handy 'Other' for them to contrast themselves with.
Most of the countries badly affected by the Euro have done spectacularly well out of membership of the EU. Spain, Greece and Portugal have been almost literally transformed as a result of joining up. You can see it clearly when you fly down to either - the roads and railways that were not there before, and then driving into both cities - the contrast with how it was 25 years ago is profound. I don't know Greece at all, but I bet it is the same there.
So you think this gambit strengthens her negotiating hand with the EU. OK, but by the same principle, don't you think it makes her negotiating hand with Trump astonishingly weak when she's saying to him she's desperate for a deal with him and wouldn't walk away from a US-UK deal no matter how unfavourable the terms were to us?
He seems as desperate as she does.
On what planet are you living? She no sooner got on the plane home than he landed her in a pile of diplomatic ordure.
He's secured his photo of her holding his hand for the history books and that's about the only thing May is able to offer him.
Trumps people are really starting to look sinister. At least politics is starting to look competitive again.
Agree. My hope was for a lurch to the centre in the last weeks of the campaign, or that when he got into office the grown-ups would pile up on him and tell him there is stuff he just can't do. That hasn't happened, and we are only 11 days into 4 years.
Trumps people are really starting to look sinister. At least politics is starting to look competitive again.
Agree. My hope was for a lurch to the centre in the last weeks of the campaign, or that when he got into office the grown-ups would pile up on him and tell him there is stuff he just can't do. That hasn't happened, and we are only 11 days into 4 years.
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on immigration and the proposed state visit.
Anything trump related is catnip for the media.
this is going to be a long four years isn't it...
Given his track record of delivering promises, he should be a shoe-in for 2020
One seat on the Supreme Court is vacant. Two liberal judges are aged about 80 and could expire before 2020. If he 'fixes' the SC, US 'checks and balances' seem more than a bit flaky.
Trumps people are really starting to look sinister. At least politics is starting to look competitive again.
Agree. My hope was for a lurch to the centre in the last weeks of the campaign, or that when he got into office the grown-ups would pile up on him and tell him there is stuff he just can't do. That hasn't happened, and we are only 11 days into 4 years.
Luckily he is running out of campaign promises!
Bomb the @£$% out of ISIS and take the oil is still outstanding...
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on immigration and the proposed state visit.
Anything trump related is catnip for the media.
this is going to be a long four years isn't it...
Given his track record of delivering promises, he should be a shoe-in for 2020
One seat on the Supreme Court is vacant. Two liberal judges are aged about 80 and could expire before 2020. If he 'fixes' the SC, US 'checks and balances' seem more than a bit flaky.
Appointing a judge can hardly be described as fixing. Agree the balance is skewed in the GOPs favour though!
Trumps people are really starting to look sinister. At least politics is starting to look competitive again.
Agree. My hope was for a lurch to the centre in the last weeks of the campaign, or that when he got into office the grown-ups would pile up on him and tell him there is stuff he just can't do. That hasn't happened, and we are only 11 days into 4 years.
Luckily he is running out of campaign promises!
Bomb the @£$% out of ISIS and take the oil is still outstanding...
The oil comment wasn't really a campaign promise though, was it?
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on immigration and the proposed state visit.
Anything trump related is catnip for the media.
this is going to be a long four years isn't it...
Given his track record of delivering promises, he should be a shoe-in for 2020
One seat on the Supreme Court is vacant. Two liberal judges are aged about 80 and could expire before 2020. If he 'fixes' the SC, US 'checks and balances' seem more than a bit flaky.
Appointing a judge can hardly be described as fixing. Agree the balance is skewed in the GOPs favour though!
At the moment, it is a 4-4 court. When it was supposed to be a 6-3 court (GOP), it went 4-5 against the GOP on Obamacare. One of the perennial Dem voters on the court was a Reagan appointee.
The thing with lifetime appointments is that, once appointed, you have no idea of how they will vote in the longer term. Most hold true to their partisan roots, but surprises are not uncommon.
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on immigration and the proposed state visit.
Anything trump related is catnip for the media.
this is going to be a long four years isn't it...
Given his track record of delivering promises, he should be a shoe-in for 2020
One seat on the Supreme Court is vacant. Two liberal judges are aged about 80 and could expire before 2020. If he 'fixes' the SC, US 'checks and balances' seem more than a bit flaky.
Appointing a judge can hardly be described as fixing. Agree the balance is skewed in the GOPs favour though!
At the moment, it is a 4-4 court. When it was supposed to be a 6-3 court (GOP), it went 4-5 against the GOP on Obamacare. One of the perennial Dem voters on the court was a Reagan appointee.
The thing with lifetime appointments is that, once appointed, you have no idea of how they will vote in the longer term. Most hold true to their partisan roots, but surprises are not uncommon.
Must say I much prefer the UK system of non-partisan judges.
Trumps people are really starting to look sinister. At least politics is starting to look competitive again.
Agree. My hope was for a lurch to the centre in the last weeks of the campaign, or that when he got into office the grown-ups would pile up on him and tell him there is stuff he just can't do. That hasn't happened, and we are only 11 days into 4 years.
My hope was always for an early impeachment, whichever of the two candidates won.
Most of the countries badly affected by the Euro have done spectacularly well out of membership of the EU. Spain, Greece and Portugal have been almost literally transformed as a result of joining up. You can see it clearly when you fly down to either - the roads and railways that were not there before, and then driving into both cities - the contrast with how it was 25 years ago is profound. I don't know Greece at all, but I bet it is the same there.
Yes, exactly. What's more, they see the EU as the protector of their democracies and a guarantee they won't fall back into the bad old days of military coups and all that bad stuff which was so much part of their post-WWII history. It's not just about economics, a point which you've have thought the Brexiteers, of all people, should be able to understand.
Yes, one of the very few good consequences of Trump is he has managed to unite the left, centre-left, centre, centre-right, and libertarian right around a common cause. His sinister brand of sectarian closed nationalist alt-rightism is toxic. The new dividing line is even more defined than open vs closed - it's sane vs insane.
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on immigration and the proposed state visit.
Anything trump related is catnip for the media.
this is going to be a long four years isn't it...
Given his track record of delivering promises, he should be a shoe-in for 2020
One seat on the Supreme Court is vacant. Two liberal judges are aged about 80 and could expire before 2020. If he 'fixes' the SC, US 'checks and balances' seem more than a bit flaky.
Appointing a judge can hardly be described as fixing. Agree the balance is skewed in the GOPs favour though!
This isn't exactly new though, the USSC swings from liberal to conservative and back over time, and we just happen to be on one of those times. Previous presidents have made more appointments than Trump will, and in the opposite direction.
Roosevelt appointed 4 liberal justices during his administration, as did Eisenhower despite being a Republican.
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on immigration and the proposed state visit.
Anything trump related is catnip for the media.
this is going to be a long four years isn't it...
Given his track record of delivering promises, he should be a shoe-in for 2020
One seat on the Supreme Court is vacant. Two liberal judges are aged about 80 and could expire before 2020. If he 'fixes' the SC, US 'checks and balances' seem more than a bit flaky.
Appointing a judge can hardly be described as fixing. Agree the balance is skewed in the GOPs favour though!
The system allows fixing to a quite striking extent by UK standards. Having a GOP SC, H of R, Senate and President seems to give no barrier to Trump issuing illegal EOs for another 4 years.
The thing with lifetime appointments is that, once appointed, you have no idea of how they will vote in the longer term. Most hold true to their partisan roots, but surprises are not uncommon.
Some like many people get more conservative with age. Justice Frankfurter was one of the founders of the ACLU, but at the end of his office was considers to be quite conservative. Justice Souter conversely was appointed by Bush as a conservative justice, but came to be considered one of the most liberal members of the court.
Trumps people are really starting to look sinister. At least politics is starting to look competitive again.
Agree. My hope was for a lurch to the centre in the last weeks of the campaign, or that when he got into office the grown-ups would pile up on him and tell him there is stuff he just can't do. That hasn't happened, and we are only 11 days into 4 years.
My hope was always for an early impeachment, whichever of the two candidates won.
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on immigration and the proposed state visit.
Anything trump related is catnip for the media.
this is going to be a long four years isn't it...
Given his track record of delivering promises, he should be a shoe-in for 2020
One seat on the Supreme Court is vacant. Two liberal judges are aged about 80 and could expire before 2020. If he 'fixes' the SC, US 'checks and balances' seem more than a bit flaky.
Appointing a judge can hardly be described as fixing. Agree the balance is skewed in the GOPs favour though!
The system allows fixing to a quite striking extent by UK standards. Having a GOP SC, H of R, Senate and President seems to give no barrier to Trump issuing illegal EOs for another 4 years.
My biggest fear about Trump is that he will inspire a halo effect that could lead to a true fascist regime emerging elsewhere.
It's already becoming clear that for good or ill he will be a history changing figure and he continues to be underestimated by most of his opponents. The Brexiteers trying to jump on his bandwagon severely misjudge the extent to which his Presidency is willing to think the unthinkable on parts of the international system that they cling to such as NATO and the WTO.
Yes, one of the very few good consequences of Trump is he has managed to unite the left, centre-left, centre, centre-right, and libertarian right around a common cause. His sinister brand of sectarian closed nationalist alt-rightism is toxic. The new dividing line is even more defined than open vs closed - it's sane vs insane.
Did it really? These attributes were all pretty clear to see before the election, yet he still won.
Yes, one of the very few good consequences of Trump is he has managed to unite the left, centre-left, centre, centre-right, and libertarian right around a common cause. His sinister brand of sectarian closed nationalist alt-rightism is toxic. The new dividing line is even more defined than open vs closed - it's sane vs insane.
Did it really? These attributes were all pretty clear to see before the election, yet he still won.
Yes, I noticed the newly united Left romping ahead in the polls in the UK as well. Labour can't even unite with itself, never mind other "progressive" parties.
1. The EU is not going to break up any time soon (although it's conceivable that Greece might fall out of the Euro, not before time).
2. The EU is being entirely rational in thinking that, faced with a lurch to US protectionism and isolationism, the answer is for the EU27 to remain united. In fact, from their point of view, 'more Europe' is a sensible answer to Trump's crude attempts to throw his weight around, plus the other risks identified in Tusk's letter. What you absolutely have to understand is that the EU is largely built on the wish to resist US hegemony. Of course Trumpism will reinforce that tendency; that's entirely natural.
3. Brexit is obviously a complicating factor in this from the point of view of the EU27, but it's also an opportunity for them. Free of the dead weight of the UK, they can get on with closer union. Good for them, we should wish them well.
You underestimate the misery caused by the euro. This isn't a chortling matter
The centripetal forces within the EU are, arguably, just as strong as the centrifugal.
Usually, nations are formed in opposition to "the other" - cf the formation of Britain against the menacing "other" of Catholic France and Spain. And it would seem the time is ripe for otherisation of America, Britain, Asia, Islam, by the EU, to forge a true EU identity.
But. But but but. The EU simply isn't working for too many people. I see trouble ahead.
The Euro hasn't fallen 15% in six months.
"In perhaps the most striking development, European Union statistics agency Eurostat said inflation across the 19 countries that share the euro currency rose sharply in January — a move that will likely encourage critics who think it’s time for the European Central Bank to start withdrawing its stimulus programs.
Inflation jumped to an annual 1.8 percent in January, from 1.1 percent the month before."
For reference, UK inflation is lower at 1.6%. There seems to be some kind of disconnect between the falling/rising currency and cost of living argument we've seen deployed on here for months and months.
You're comparing December with January numbers. Our January figures will move up with commodity prices.
You underestimate the misery caused by the euro. This isn't a chortling matter
The centripetal forces within the EU are, arguably, just as strong as the centrifugal.
Usually, nations are formed in opposition to "the other" - cf the formation of Britain against the menacing "other" of Catholic France and Spain. And it would seem the time is ripe for otherisation of America, Britain, Asia, Islam, by the EU, to forge a true EU identity.
But. But but but. The EU simply isn't working for too many people. I see trouble ahead.
I don't underestimate it, but in most of the countries which are badly affected, the Euro is still popular. Even Greece, although reality is gradually beating them out of their love of the Euro.
Yes, there's trouble ahead. But Trump is pushing them together, not pushing them apart. He's actually providing a rather handy 'Other' for them to contrast themselves with.
Most of the countries badly affected by the Euro have done spectacularly well out of membership of the EU. Spain, Greece and Portugal have been almost literally transformed as a result of joining up. You can see it clearly when you fly down to either - the roads and railways that were not there before, and then driving into both cities - the contrast with how it was 25 years ago is profound. I don't know Greece at all, but I bet it is the same there.
Lots of lovely new roads for the Germans to drive on en route to their island retreats.
Not so great for the millions of unemployed Greeks literally going no where in their lives.
But hey-ho. That's life in the Fourth Reich. Put up and shut up.
On this key day, with the start of the Article 50 debate, the BBC 6 pm news lead story is Trump's EO on immigration and the proposed state visit.
Anything trump related is catnip for the media.
this is going to be a long four years isn't it...
Given his track record of delivering promises, he should be a shoe-in for 2020
One seat on the Supreme Court is vacant. Two liberal judges are aged about 80 and could expire before 2020. If he 'fixes' the SC, US 'checks and balances' seem more than a bit flaky.
Appointing a judge can hardly be described as fixing. Agree the balance is skewed in the GOPs favour though!
This isn't exactly new though, the USSC swings from liberal to conservative and back over time, and we just happen to be on one of those times. Previous presidents have made more appointments than Trump will, and in the opposite direction.
Roosevelt appointed 4 liberal justices during his administration, as did Eisenhower despite being a Republican.
Eisenhower was probably rather a liberal compared to today's GOP
1. The EU is not going to break up any time soon (although it's conceivable that Greece might f
.
But. But but but. The EU simply isn't working for too many people. I see trouble ahead.
The Euro hasn't fallen 15% in six months.
"In perhaps the most striking development, European Union statistics agency Eurostat said inflation across the 19 countries that sf disconnect between the falling/rising currency and cost of living argument we've seen deployed on here for months and months.
You're comparing December with January numbers. Our January figures will move up with commodity prices.
1. The EU is not going to break up any time soon (although it's conceivable that Greece might fall out of the Ethe dead weight of the UK, they can get on with closer union. Good for them, we should wish them well.
You underestimate the misery caused by the euro. This isn't a chortling matter
The centripetal forces within the EU are, arguably, just as strong as the centrifugal.
Usually, nations are formed in opposition to "the other" - cf the formation of Britain against the menacing "other" of Catholic France and Spain. And it would seem the time is ripe for otherisation of America, Britain, Asia, Islam, by the EU, to forge a true EU identity.
But. But but but. The EU simply isn't working for too many people. I see trouble ahead.
The Euro hasn't fallen 15% in six months.
"In perhaps the most striking development, European Union statistics agency Eurostat said inflation across the 19 countries that share the euro currency rose sharply in January — a move that will likely encourage critics who think it’s time for the European Central Bank to start withdrawing its stimulus programs.
Inflation jumped to an annual 1.8 percent in January, from 1.1 percent the month before."
For reference, UK inflation is lower at 1.6%. There seems to be some kind of disconnect between the falling/rising currency and cost of living argument we've seen deployed on here for months and months.
You're comparing December with January numbers. Our January figures will move up with commodity prices.
steel has gone up by 40-50% in the last 6 months
however next to bugger all to do with Brexit and much to do with a change in the tariff regime and removal of Chinese subsidies
Yes, one of the very few good consequences of Trump is he has managed to unite the left, centre-left, centre, centre-right, and libertarian right around a common cause. His sinister brand of sectarian closed nationalist alt-rightism is toxic. The new dividing line is even more defined than open vs closed - it's sane vs insane.
Did it really? These attributes were all pretty clear to see before the election, yet he still won.
To be clear I'm talking at a global level (internationally).
My biggest fear about Trump is that he will inspire a halo effect that could lead to a true fascist regime emerging elsewhere.
It's already becoming clear that for good or ill he will be a history changing figure and he continues to be underestimated by most of his opponents. The Brexiteers trying to jump on his bandwagon severely misjudge the extent to which his Presidency is willing to think the unthinkable on parts of the international system that they cling to such as NATO and the WTO.
I have never grasped your reasons for supporting him William - you always struck me as a very unlikely bedfellow
Comments
Inflation jumped to an annual 1.8 percent in January, from 1.1 percent the month before."
For reference, UK inflation is lower at 1.6%. There seems to be some kind of disconnect between the falling/rising currency and cost of living argument we've seen deployed on here for months and months.
The real fear from our left leaning friends about Trump is, I believe, not that May will get a crap deal from him, so much as with Labour heading off into unelectable La-La land for the foreseeable future, they wont be able to get their own man to change the deal to something more to their liking.
We all project our social circles. I've never met anyone who took the slightest interest in what Canada or Australia thought, but I've sometimes met people interested in German views as they are perceived to be important for Britain. As Danny says there tends to be a negative correlation with the USA - not only with lefties. Sean obviously has a different experience. But in reality most people don't actually pay much attention to what ANY foreign country thinks. Many only just about bother to follow what our own government thinks. It would be nice if it were otherwise!
Decision-makers, on the other hand, do pay attention to the USA, sometimes more than people think they should (cf. Blair and perhaps May). But Canada, Australia? Not much.
Downside of Brexit: hearing more ill-informed nonsense about how awful trade deals will be as we Take Back Control (TM) of our external trading relations.
In practice, neither is desperate. I don't actually expect much to come of it; the main areas where the US would want to sell us more (healthcare, GM foods) are politically fraught, and on the other side the US is unlikely to want to open up its markets under Trump - quite the reverse in fact.
But it's useful play-acting for both sides. In particular, playing the US off against the EU is very handy for the PM as the EU negotiations approach.
You appear to be confusing "only trade deals that benefit the US" with "trade deals which benefit only the US".
I think that's right. Though I believe Obama improved things the damage was done by Blair and Bush
"We don't yet know if that is going to happen," Dijsselbloem told the RTL broadcaster. "Europe must not sit back and blindly wait for what happens in the United States, but move ahead itself, also in the area of trade."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trump-europe-trade-idUKKBN15F1UN?il=0
It isn't too hard to envisage ways that the UK and US can scratch each other's backs when they both have enormous trade deficits.
The 2nd story is Trump sacking the acting Ag.
Come on Shadsy be a sport, how's about offering me 20/1 ..... say my £5 against your £100?
He's secured his photo of her holding his hand for the history books and that's about the only thing May is able to offer him.
Both have a 3 line whip.
If 40 Labour MPs do not vote with the whip = 17% rebellion.
If 2 LD MPs do not vote with the whip = 22% rebellion.
The thing with lifetime appointments is that, once appointed, you have no idea of how they will vote in the longer term. Most hold true to their partisan roots, but surprises are not uncommon.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/ken-clarke-failed-stand-fascism/
Yes, one of the very few good consequences of Trump is he has managed to unite the left, centre-left, centre, centre-right, and libertarian right around a common cause. His sinister brand of sectarian closed nationalist alt-rightism is toxic. The new dividing line is even more defined than open vs closed - it's sane vs insane.
Roosevelt appointed 4 liberal justices during his administration, as did Eisenhower despite being a Republican.
My biggest fear about Trump is that he will inspire a halo effect that could lead to a true fascist regime emerging elsewhere.
It's already becoming clear that for good or ill he will be a history changing figure and he continues to be underestimated by most of his opponents. The Brexiteers trying to jump on his bandwagon severely misjudge the extent to which his Presidency is willing to think the unthinkable on parts of the international system that they cling to such as NATO and the WTO.
Lille: Sexist banner at Lyon prompts club to offer free tickets to women
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38811015
Not so great for the millions of unemployed Greeks literally going no where in their lives.
But hey-ho. That's life in the Fourth Reich. Put up and shut up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Republican
Do the snowflakes want some sort of retrospective acknowledgment of breaching of safe spaces to be applied?
https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/826506959838912514
Not as rosy as Hollande would like.