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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Any Jill Stein votes yet?
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    Watching Trump on BBC News a few moments ago, at his final rally in Michigan:

    "We used to make cars in Flint and you couldn't drink the water in Mexico. Now they make cars in Mexico and you can't drink the water in Flint."

    This, along with Clinton's own unpopularity, is the reason why a candidate like Donald Trump can capture in excess of 40% of the popular vote. It's also why, even if he loses this time around, we shouldn't assume that somebody running on a very similar platform (only without the misogyny, and with less strident rhetoric about Mexico) can't win the next time around.

    OTOH low-education white men are a declining demographic, that's why they're losing control of the country and that in turn is why they're so angry. I'm not saying it's impossible to win on this platform in 2020, but it's getting harder all the time.
    Anger is not because of loss of control but loss of jobs. A lot of small-town America has lost out as jobs were moved first to the big cities and then overseas leaving behind economic basket cases. We are all familiar with the ironic truisms that the GOP coalition persuades poor people to vote for tax cuts for billionaires; that Republican states are subsidised by Democrat ones.

    On this election day we must toast Clarence Darrow, especially as whoever wins may well need a defence lawyer: when I was a boy I was told anyone could become president; I'm beginning to believe it.
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    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    edited November 2016
    Trump may have made his biggest mistake yet

    He's said that Tom Brady has endorsed him.
    Tom Brady has said he hasn't

    Oops
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990



    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Although that said one thing that cannot happen is a loss of California’s Senate seat to the Democrats because although Senator Boxer is standing down, she’s going to be replaced by one of two Democrats (that’s right, no Republican candidate).

    When people whine about Republican gerrymandering they should remember this.

    Sacremento changes the rules to have an "open primary" where both parties vote in the same election and only the top 2 candidates get to participate in the election.

    They did this to explicitly to disenfrancish Orange County which - even in 2008 and 2012 - had an absolute majority for the GOP but isn't allowed to vote for anyone apart from a Democrat this time round.

    Yeah, it stinks.
    Shouldn't be that hard for the GOP to get someone in the top 2, they only have to nominate a decent candidate. Anyway it's not that dissmiliar to what happens in Louisiana. Any comment on that?
    The same!
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    Pulpstar said:

    Trump may have made his biggest mistake yet

    He's said that Tom Brady has endorsed him.
    Tom Brady has said he hasn't

    Oops

    That's going to deflate Trump and his chances of winning.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
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    Pulpstar said:

    2016 New Hampshire midnight voting (Dixville Notch, Harts, Millsfield):

    Trump 32 Clinton 25

    2012:

    Obama 28 Romney 14

    Perhaps its NOT all over :o

    Millsfield did not have a midnight vote 4 years ago so this is not comparing like with like. Excluding Millfield the result is Clinton 21, Trump 16.

    By the way, MSN reports that Hart's Location had one write in for Sanders and one for Kasich, not the 2 for Sanders reported on this thread.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,459

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump may have made his biggest mistake yet

    He's said that Tom Brady has endorsed him.
    Tom Brady has said he hasn't

    Oops

    That's going to deflate Trump and his chances of winning.
    Why?
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    ToryJim said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump may have made his biggest mistake yet

    He's said that Tom Brady has endorsed him.
    Tom Brady has said he hasn't

    Oops

    That's going to deflate Trump and his chances of winning.
    Why?
    It's a joke.
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    ToryJim said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump may have made his biggest mistake yet

    He's said that Tom Brady has endorsed him.
    Tom Brady has said he hasn't

    Oops

    That's going to deflate Trump and his chances of winning.
    Why?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,459

    Pulpstar said:

    2016 New Hampshire midnight voting (Dixville Notch, Harts, Millsfield):

    Trump 32 Clinton 25

    2012:

    Obama 28 Romney 14

    Perhaps its NOT all over :o

    Millsfield did not have a midnight vote 4 years ago so this is not comparing like with like. Excluding Millfield the result is Clinton 21, Trump 16.

    By the way, MSN reports that Hart's Location had one write in for Sanders and one for Kasich, not the 2 for Sanders reported on this thread.
    So turnout down and Clinton still ahead in an almost exclusively white electorate. Once her constituencies weigh in should run up the score!
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,517
    edited November 2016

    Idiot American electoral system with polls closing stupidly early and the telly declaring the winner before they finish counting the votes...

    Anyway, busy at work (with good things in the offing and people I need to continue impressing) and a choice of viewing- do I go to my friend's party and stay up late, or do I stay home go to bed really early then get up around 2am?

    If it's a choice between the two, probably the latter.

    I made the mistake of doing the former in 2004. There's a lot of noise* in the early part of the night. Only the states that voted decisively one way or the other are called on close of polls. Things only start to become clearer in the wee hours.

    As it was, I went to bed thinking Bush had lost and woke up to find he'd won.

    *You also get the classic TV coverage problem where telly folk don't have any results yet and therefore sit around talking inanely for what feels like forever.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    I've got a brexity feeling about this vote, my gut tells me we will see lower turnout amongst Clinton's coalition except latinos. High turnout amongst WWC for Trump, and he clinches it. However, my gut is not the most scientific forecast model so DYOR!
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,459

    ToryJim said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump may have made his biggest mistake yet

    He's said that Tom Brady has endorsed him.
    Tom Brady has said he hasn't

    Oops

    That's going to deflate Trump and his chances of winning.
    Why?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate
    Ok a reference to a sport I don't follow.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    I can't believe this but I am stuck in a ridiculous court case that will run all day today and tomorrow. I am gutted but no late night for me. Maybe my client can be persuaded to settle....

    Still, after Notch everything else is surely going to be an anti-climax.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    DavidL said:

    I can't believe this but I am stuck in a ridiculous court case that will run all day today and tomorrow. I am gutted but no late night for me. Maybe my client can be persuaded to settle....

    Still, after Notch everything else is surely going to be an anti-climax.

    Just tell the judge your client is guilty. Unless you are the prosecutor, then do the opposite :D
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I've got a brexity feeling about this vote, my gut tells me we will see lower turnout amongst Clinton's coalition except latinos. High turnout amongst WWC for Trump, and he clinches it. However, my gut is not the most scientific forecast model so DYOR!

    The tbing in Trumps favour is that the early voting took place mostly last week before the FBI cleared Hillary.

    American polling stations seem very badly organised with long queues. I can see that as quite a disincentive to casual voters.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001

    Pulpstar said:

    2016 New Hampshire midnight voting (Dixville Notch, Harts, Millsfield):

    Trump 32 Clinton 25

    2012:

    Obama 28 Romney 14

    Perhaps its NOT all over :o

    Millsfield did not have a midnight vote 4 years ago so this is not comparing like with like. Excluding Millfield the result is Clinton 21, Trump 16.

    By the way, MSN reports that Hart's Location had one write in for Sanders and one for Kasich, not the 2 for Sanders reported on this thread.
    Yep sorry realised this after I posted:

    The best comparison is to the 3 in 2016:

    Trump 32 Clinton 25
    Romney 30 Obama 33

    I think !

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't believe this but I am stuck in a ridiculous court case that will run all day today and tomorrow. I am gutted but no late night for me. Maybe my client can be persuaded to settle....

    Still, after Notch everything else is surely going to be an anti-climax.

    Just tell the judge your client is guilty. Unless you are the prosecutor, then do the opposite :D
    We are arguing about money and not a whole heap of it at that. But it is also about who has betrayed the other, Allah and sundry others so settlement is depressingly unlikely.
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    DavidL said:

    I can't believe this but I am stuck in a ridiculous court case that will run all day today and tomorrow. I am gutted but no late night for me. Maybe my client can be persuaded to settle....

    Still, after Notch everything else is surely going to be an anti-climax.

    If it is with a jury, accidentally say something related to the case in front of a juror, inform the judge and have it declared a mistrial.

    Has the added benefit of more billable hours too.
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    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    DavidL said:

    I can't believe this but I am stuck in a ridiculous court case that will run all day today and tomorrow. I am gutted but no late night for me. Maybe my client can be persuaded to settle....

    Still, after Notch everything else is surely going to be an anti-climax.

    If it is with a jury, accidentally say something related to the case in front of a juror, inform the judge and have it declared a mistrial.

    Has the added benefit of more billable hours too.
    A much more informed option than mine!
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907
    Please, please, please let it not be close. Let it end.
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    Alistair said:

    Is it over yet? Who won?

    We all win 24 hours from now when it's finally over...
    Be careful what you wish for -- once the election is done, pb will be wall-to-wall, 24x7 Brexit which we can't even bet on.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    DavidL said:

    I can't believe this but I am stuck in a ridiculous court case that will run all day today and tomorrow. I am gutted but no late night for me. Maybe my client can be persuaded to settle....

    Still, after Notch everything else is surely going to be an anti-climax.

    If it is with a jury, accidentally say something related to the case in front of a juror, inform the judge and have it declared a mistrial.

    Has the added benefit of more billable hours too.
    Or make a comment on the case on social media albeit under a pseudonym?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Alistair said:

    Is it over yet? Who won?

    We all win 24 hours from now when it's finally over...
    Be careful what you wish for -- once the election is done, pb will be wall-to-wall, 24x7 Brexit which we can't even bet on.
    That, and our promised new years AV thread.. isn't that right, TSE? :p
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    Gah. I've realised the India v England test match starts at 4am Wednesday too.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387

    DavidL said:

    I can't believe this but I am stuck in a ridiculous court case that will run all day today and tomorrow. I am gutted but no late night for me. Maybe my client can be persuaded to settle....

    Still, after Notch everything else is surely going to be an anti-climax.

    If it is with a jury, accidentally say something related to the case in front of a juror, inform the judge and have it declared a mistrial.

    Has the added benefit of more billable hours too.
    But not, in all likelihood, by me. Life just isn't fair sometimes.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001

    Alistair said:

    Is it over yet? Who won?

    We all win 24 hours from now when it's finally over...
    Be careful what you wish for -- once the election is done, pb will be wall-to-wall, 24x7 Brexit which we can't even bet on.
    Arf - so true.

    Next actual betting event is Zac's hideously white victory parade the Richmond by-election.
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    Jonathan said:

    Please, please, please let it not be close. Let it end.

    If it does go to Hanging Chads remember the Supreme Court vacancy. They could be tied 4/4 this time ! Does the Chief Justice get a casting vote ?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Jonathan said:

    Please, please, please let it not be close. Let it end.

    If it does go to Hanging Chads remember the Supreme Court vacancy. They could be tied 4/4 this time ! Does the Chief Justice get a casting vote ?
    If it's a tie the decision of the lower court stands.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    By the way, even although I will not be able to take advantage of it this is a really excellent thread header by Harry. Better and more comprehensive than I have seen in any of the MSM. Many thanks.
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    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Please, please, please let it not be close. Let it end.

    If it does go to Hanging Chads remember the Supreme Court vacancy. They could be tied 4/4 this time ! Does the Chief Justice get a casting vote ?
    If it's a tie the decision of the lower court stands.
    Phew !
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
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    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..

    We'll swing right. That won't work. So we'll swing left. And repeat to fade. But globalisation is not going away and will actually accelerate. AI is going to lower prices and incomes. In the end, the only answer will be redistribution of wealth within a capitalist system (or, put simply, big companies and very wealthy people paying more tax) or revolution. I am rooting for the former.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387

    Gah. I've realised the India v England test match starts at 4am Wednesday too.

    If enough of the swing states are TCTC the England innings could be finished before we know the result in the US.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Alistair said:

    Is it over yet? Who won?

    We all win 24 hours from now when it's finally over...
    Be careful what you wish for -- once the election is done, pb will be wall-to-wall, 24x7 Brexit which we can't even bet on.
    I guess it depends on the result.

    PB wasn't around to hang Chad. ..
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is it over yet? Who won?

    We all win 24 hours from now when it's finally over...
    Be careful what you wish for -- once the election is done, pb will be wall-to-wall, 24x7 Brexit which we can't even bet on.
    That, and our promised new years AV thread.. isn't that right, TSE? :p
    The POTUS election does indeed point up the virtue of AV. If primaries were AV then we may well have had different candidates.
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    DavidL said:

    Gah. I've realised the India v England test match starts at 4am Wednesday too.

    If enough of the swing states are TCTC the England innings could be finished before we know the result in the US.
    We're opening with Hameed and putting Ducket at 4.

    Means no Buttler.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907

    Jonathan said:

    Please, please, please let it not be close. Let it end.

    If it does go to Hanging Chads remember the Supreme Court vacancy. They could be tied 4/4 this time ! Does the Chief Justice get a casting vote ?
    I think it's Len Goodman who has the casting vote.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Mortimer said:

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
    Think I saw 20k in an article yesterday
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    Jonathan said:

    Please, please, please let it not be close. Let it end.

    If it does go to Hanging Chads remember the Supreme Court vacancy. They could be tied 4/4 this time ! Does the Chief Justice get a casting vote ?
    If it is a tie in the Supreme Court, they then just go with the descision of the lower court.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387

    DavidL said:

    Gah. I've realised the India v England test match starts at 4am Wednesday too.

    If enough of the swing states are TCTC the England innings could be finished before we know the result in the US.
    We're opening with Hameed and putting Ducket at 4.

    Means no Buttler.
    The Telegraph is claiming otherwise...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/11/07/jos-buttler-set-to-play-first-test-against-india-as-specialist-b/
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    Mortimer said:

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
    It's really good and improving. It's really an experiment in what newsprint will look like for broadsheets when daily production becomes unviable. It's really a lifestyle magazine in Berliner newsprint form. As it launched as a pop up paper for 4 issues it's done well. It's now taking Subscriptions 13 issues ahead. It's also making a profit.
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    Goods News - It IS worth giving facts. Maybe we're not in a post-truth world after all.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/upshot/fact-checking-can-change-views-we-rate-that-as-mostly-true.html?_r=0
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    Good morning, everyone.
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Gah. I've realised the India v England test match starts at 4am Wednesday too.

    If enough of the swing states are TCTC the England innings could be finished before we know the result in the US.
    We're opening with Hameed and putting Ducket at 4.

    Means no Buttler.
    The Telegraph is claiming otherwise...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/11/07/jos-buttler-set-to-play-first-test-against-india-as-specialist-b/
    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/795893831887507456
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907
    Cricket is our salvation from politics.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387

    Mortimer said:

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
    It's really good and improving. It's really an experiment in what newsprint will look like for broadsheets when daily production becomes unviable. It's really a lifestyle magazine in Berliner newsprint form. As it launched as a pop up paper for 4 issues it's done well. It's now taking Subscriptions 13 issues ahead. It's also making a profit.
    Surely subscriptions 13 issues ahead for a pop up newspaper is the ultimate definition of optimism. The bet downthread on Trump winning and declaring war on Mexico looks more cautious.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Jonathan said:

    Cricket is our salvation from politics.

    Let's not forget trains :)
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Good Morning ARSE lovers of PB worldwide .... :sunglasses:

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    DavidL said:

    Gah. I've realised the India v England test match starts at 4am Wednesday too.

    If enough of the swing states are TCTC the England innings could be finished before we know the result in the US.
    Only if England fall apart faster than an Osborne Budget.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387

    DavidL said:

    Gah. I've realised the India v England test match starts at 4am Wednesday too.

    If enough of the swing states are TCTC the England innings could be finished before we know the result in the US.
    Only if England fall apart faster than an Osborne Budget.
    You're going to miss him when our somewhat depressed bank manager has been speaking for more than an hour without even a titter in December.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    Superb piece by Harry - thanks so much! Another coup for PB too - as DavidL says, it's much better than anything in the mainstream media, even the American media.

    Those early results should give a flicker of worry to the Clinton camp.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited November 2016
    England Cricket management were stupid. Hameed is an opener , he should have been blooded v Bangladesh. WTF were they doing making Duckett open.. Crazy thinking.
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Gah. I've realised the India v England test match starts at 4am Wednesday too.

    If enough of the swing states are TCTC the England innings could be finished before we know the result in the US.
    Only if England fall apart faster than an Osborne Budget.
    You're going to miss him when our somewhat depressed bank manager has been speaking for more than an hour without even a titter in December.
    That's like saying you missed Brown after Darling became CotE.

    Chancellors who think they're more intelligent and more funny than they are are not good for the country.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    A little gem from the excellent Steve Schale Florida blog - of NPA early voters 21.4% were Hispanic which is "bigly" above the demographic :

    https://twitter.com/steveschale?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
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    Superb piece by Harry - thanks so much! Another coup for PB too - as DavidL says, it's much better than anything in the mainstream media, even the American media.

    Those early results should give a flicker of worry to the Clinton camp.

    Yes, thanks to HH.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,233
    Has Walton's Mountain switched to midnight voting yet?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    Two American friends tell me they're not voting, partly because of reports of a six-hour wait at polling stations (plus general disgust at the process). They're in South Carolina, which is so safely GOP that active voter suppression can't be the reason. Are local authorities just saving money on polling stations or what?
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    Two American friends tell me they're not voting, partly because of reports of a six-hour wait at polling stations (plus general disgust at the process). They're in South Carolina, which is so safely GOP that active voter suppression can't be the reason. Are local authorities just saving money on polling stations or what?

    Long waits at polling stations seems to be a regular feature of US elections.

    With their low turnouts its all the more difficult to understand.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001

    Two American friends tell me they're not voting, partly because of reports of a six-hour wait at polling stations (plus general disgust at the process). They're in South Carolina, which is so safely GOP that active voter suppression can't be the reason. Are local authorities just saving money on polling stations or what?

    Actually South Carolina could flip on a Hillary landslide - it is nominally less than Alaska and Texas which have been talked about a couple of times here.

    Popular vote 1,071,645 865,941
    Percentage 54.56% 44.09%

    If AA turnout is down or not up enough relative to white votes (Which looks to be the case) it won't though.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Two American friends tell me they're not voting, partly because of reports of a six-hour wait at polling stations (plus general disgust at the process). They're in South Carolina, which is so safely GOP that active voter suppression can't be the reason. Are local authorities just saving money on polling stations or what?

    Long waits at polling stations seems to be a regular feature of US elections.

    With their low turnouts its all the more difficult to understand.
    Surely the causation is the other way around? Poor organisation => long queues => low turnout

    Six hours though? 0_o
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    I wasn't quite sure if Coulter was as stupid as she is ghastly, but..

    https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/795833821501460480
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    Very detailed and informative piece Harry - many thanks for providing us with this.
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    I wasn't quite sure if Coulter was as stupid as she is ghastly, but..

    https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/795833821501460480

    LOL. Aha, the 3am tweet.
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    I wasn't quite sure if Coulter was as stupid as she is ghastly, but..

    https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/795833821501460480

    Yes, what about those with 5 grandparents born in the US?
    If the candidate also had to have 4 grandparents born in the US, that would rule out Donald Trump.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    JackW said:

    A little gem from the excellent Steve Schale Florida blog - of NPA early voters 21.4% were Hispanic which is "bigly" above the demographic :

    https://twitter.com/steveschale?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Not these dodgy stats again.

    Above the electorate demographic yes, but the same as the NPA voter registration. Hispanics make up about 20% of NPA registrations in Florida.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    My guess for today. Trump 275, Clinton 263

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/kmo24
  • Options

    Mortimer said:

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
    It's really good and improving. It's really an experiment in what newsprint will look like for broadsheets when daily production becomes unviable. It's really a lifestyle magazine in Berliner newsprint form. As it launched as a pop up paper for 4 issues it's done well. It's now taking Subscriptions 13 issues ahead. It's also making a profit.
    I bought a copy the other day out of curiosity. But I'm weird, I love print newspapers to the extent that whenever I travel I always buy copies of some of the local papers to have a look at design etc even if I can't read the language.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    edited November 2016
    Essexit said:

    Two American friends tell me they're not voting, partly because of reports of a six-hour wait at polling stations (plus general disgust at the process). They're in South Carolina, which is so safely GOP that active voter suppression can't be the reason. Are local authorities just saving money on polling stations or what?

    Long waits at polling stations seems to be a regular feature of US elections.

    With their low turnouts its all the more difficult to understand.
    Surely the causation is the other way around? Poor organisation => long queues => low turnout

    Six hours though? 0_o
    But polls haven't opened, yet. So these are reports from some special early voting procedure, which we don't even offer?
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    My guess for today. Trump 275, Clinton 263

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/kmo24

    Not impossible at all.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    I wasn't quite sure if Coulter was as stupid as she is ghastly, but..

    https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/795833821501460480

    Yes, what about those with 5 grandparents born in the US?
    If the candidate also had to have 4 grandparents born in the US, that would rule out Donald Trump.
    Her replies to such criticism on Twitter are ripe. For example: So what? You are like "Politifact," citing irrelevancies as if they detract from blinding truth of my statement.
  • Options
    In case anyone missed overnight, here is Princeton's final prediction:

    President: Hillary Clinton (D).

    Most probable single outcome (shown on map below): Clinton 323 EV, Trump 215 EV.

    Median: Clinton 312 EV, Trump 215 EV. Meta-Margin: 2.7%.

    Mode (see histogram at right): Clinton 309 EV, Trump 229 EV.

    National popular vote: Clinton +4.0 ± 0.6%.

    http://election.princeton.edu/

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    After a slow start in Ohio early voting Clinton has pulled the numbers around. The general consensus seems to be that in the "Buckeye" state it will be tighter than Plato's purse strings at a Hillary fundraiser.

    Kasich put a fork in Trump again yesterday and the Clinton ground game is worth about 1.5 points. My ARSE has blown for Clinton by 0.5% - Truly squeaky bum time .... :smile:

    http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/07/hillary-clinton-pulled-ohio-early-votes-show-uptick-dem-counties.html

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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    My guess for today. Trump 275, Clinton 263

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/kmo24

    Therein is the risk to Hillary. A plausible map.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    Jobabob said:

    My guess for today. Trump 275, Clinton 263

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/kmo24

    Therein is the risk to Hillary. A plausible map.
    Not really, Trump would have to win all if the toss ups except Nevada and add MI. Not plausible, closer to unlikely.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    A little gem from the excellent Steve Schale Florida blog - of NPA early voters 21.4% were Hispanic which is "bigly" above the demographic :

    https://twitter.com/steveschale?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Not these dodgy stats again.

    Above the electorate demographic yes, but the same as the NPA voter registration. Hispanics make up about 20% of NPA registrations in Florida.
    Precisely. The NPA is more diverse than the state demographic and especially so the Hispanics. That's the point. Minorities rarely exceed their demographic let alone by a third.

    Tsk ....
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    JackW said:

    After a slow start in Ohio early voting Clinton has pulled the numbers around. The general consensus seems to be that in the "Buckeye" state it will be tighter than Plato's purse strings at a Hillary fundraiser.

    Kasich put a fork in Trump again yesterday and the Clinton ground game is worth about 1.5 points. My ARSE has blown for Clinton by 0.5% - Truly squeaky bum time .... :smile:

    http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/07/hillary-clinton-pulled-ohio-early-votes-show-uptick-dem-counties.html

    Oh sweet music to my ears.

    If Ohio doesn't fall to Trump then looks like ground game will has done for him. But he doesn't need any of that tedious old-fashioned political stuff does he? He's The Donald and we live in an age where all that matters is celebrity and social media.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    In case anyone missed overnight, here is Princeton's final prediction:

    President: Hillary Clinton (D).

    Most probable single outcome (shown on map below): Clinton 323 EV, Trump 215 EV.

    Median: Clinton 312 EV, Trump 215 EV. Meta-Margin: 2.7%.

    Mode (see histogram at right): Clinton 309 EV, Trump 229 EV.

    National popular vote: Clinton +4.0 ± 0.6%.

    http://election.princeton.edu/


    I don't understand how Sam can be so confident. He's saying (I think) that it's more likely than not Clinton's PV will be between +3.4% and +4.6% over trump.

    I'd lay that bet at evens over and over again.

  • Options
    Pong said:

    In case anyone missed overnight, here is Princeton's final prediction:

    President: Hillary Clinton (D).

    Most probable single outcome (shown on map below): Clinton 323 EV, Trump 215 EV.

    Median: Clinton 312 EV, Trump 215 EV. Meta-Margin: 2.7%.

    Mode (see histogram at right): Clinton 309 EV, Trump 229 EV.

    National popular vote: Clinton +4.0 ± 0.6%.

    http://election.princeton.edu/


    I don't understand how Sam can be so confident. He's saying (I think) that it's more likely than not Clinton's PV will be between +3.4% and +4.6% over trump.

    I'd lay that bet at evens over and over again.

    Great to see you back Pong - on this day of all days, you're a great asset to the site.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    And for one last titter filled time .... :smiley:

    National Panel Tracker - LA Times - Sample 2,912 - 8 Nov

    Clinton 43.6 .. Trump 46.8

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967
    My final guess:-

    Hilary wins 279 to 259.

    The Senate splits 50/50.

    The Republicans hold the House 235 to 200.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    IanB2 said:

    Essexit said:

    Two American friends tell me they're not voting, partly because of reports of a six-hour wait at polling stations (plus general disgust at the process). They're in South Carolina, which is so safely GOP that active voter suppression can't be the reason. Are local authorities just saving money on polling stations or what?

    Long waits at polling stations seems to be a regular feature of US elections.

    With their low turnouts its all the more difficult to understand.
    Surely the causation is the other way around? Poor organisation => long queues => low turnout

    Six hours though? 0_o
    But polls haven't opened, yet. So these are reports from some special early voting procedure, which we don't even offer?
    Good point, I'd forgotten what time it is there. Or they could be predictions based on number of likely voters, number/staffing of polling stations, and how arduous the process of proving your identity is.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
    Think I saw 20k in an article yesterday
    Presumably that includes free copies.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    JackW said:

    And for one last titter filled time .... :smiley:

    National Panel Tracker - LA Times - Sample 2,912 - 8 Nov

    Clinton 43.6 .. Trump 46.8

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/

    How many Hispanics and AA is Trump winning this time?
  • Options

    Two American friends tell me they're not voting, partly because of reports of a six-hour wait at polling stations (plus general disgust at the process). They're in South Carolina, which is so safely GOP that active voter suppression can't be the reason. Are local authorities just saving money on polling stations or what?

    Part of the problem is that voters have multiple ballots to vote on:

    Everyone votes on the president and congress but then some states also have a senate vote , governor vote and ballot propositions
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Pong said:

    In case anyone missed overnight, here is Princeton's final prediction:

    President: Hillary Clinton (D).

    Most probable single outcome (shown on map below): Clinton 323 EV, Trump 215 EV.

    Median: Clinton 312 EV, Trump 215 EV. Meta-Margin: 2.7%.

    Mode (see histogram at right): Clinton 309 EV, Trump 229 EV.

    National popular vote: Clinton +4.0 ± 0.6%.

    http://election.princeton.edu/


    I don't understand how Sam can be so confident. He's saying (I think) that it's more likely than not Clinton's PV will be between +3.4% and +4.6% over trump.

    I'd lay that bet at evens over and over again.

    https://www.wired.com/2016/11/2016s-election-data-hero-isnt-nate-silver-sam-wang/

    I'm not 100% sure I agree: I think Silver is getting a lot of unfair comment based on the fact that his numbers are better for Trump than other places. I can see Sam Wang's logic though
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    A little gem from the excellent Steve Schale Florida blog - of NPA early voters 21.4% were Hispanic which is "bigly" above the demographic :

    https://twitter.com/steveschale?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Not these dodgy stats again.

    Above the electorate demographic yes, but the same as the NPA voter registration. Hispanics make up about 20% of NPA registrations in Florida.
    Precisely. The NPA is more diverse than the state demographic and especially so the Hispanics. That's the point. Minorities rarely exceed their demographic let alone by a third.

    Tsk ....
    Rarely exceed their demographic in the TOTAL vote, but that is not what he's saying. He's saying NPA early voters are more Hispanic than their proportion of the total electorate.

    It's quite easy to exceed your demographic in a subset of the electorate where you are overrepresented anyway.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Pong said:

    In case anyone missed overnight, here is Princeton's final prediction:

    President: Hillary Clinton (D).

    Most probable single outcome (shown on map below): Clinton 323 EV, Trump 215 EV.

    Median: Clinton 312 EV, Trump 215 EV. Meta-Margin: 2.7%.

    Mode (see histogram at right): Clinton 309 EV, Trump 229 EV.

    National popular vote: Clinton +4.0 ± 0.6%.

    http://election.princeton.edu/


    I don't understand how Sam can be so confident. He's saying (I think) that it's more likely than not Clinton's PV will be between +3.4% and +4.6% over trump.

    I'd lay that bet at evens over and over again.

    Great to see you back Pong - on this day of all days, you're a great asset to the site.
    Thanks Peter.

    Appreciated.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Pong said:

    My guess for today. Trump 275, Clinton 263

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/kmo24

    Not impossible at all.
    And very similar to my current thinking:

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/4b9DZ

    DEM 265, GOP 264, all depending on ME and NE
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
    Think I saw 20k in an article yesterday
    Feels about right.

    I guess they'll go down the 'become a registered supporter' line, soon?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    edited November 2016
    Mortimer said:

    Pong said:

    My guess for today. Trump 275, Clinton 263

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/kmo24

    Not impossible at all.
    And very similar to my current thinking:

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/4b9DZ

    DEM 265, GOP 264, all depending on ME and NE
    If Trump has won Hew Hampshire he'll take Maine CD2.

    Heavily odds on.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    My guess for today. Trump 275, Clinton 263

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/kmo24

    Very plausible.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pong said:

    My guess for today. Trump 275, Clinton 263

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/kmo24

    Not impossible at all.
    And very similar to my current thinking:

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/4b9DZ

    DEM 265, GOP 264, all depending on ME and NE
    If Trump has won Hew Hampshire he'll take Maine CD2.

    Heavily odds on.
    Which puts them at 265 all?
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
    Think I saw 20k in an article yesterday
    Feels about right.

    I guess they'll go down the 'become a registered supporter' line, soon?
    That never ends well, ask Labour. ;)
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    My final guess:-

    Hilary wins 279 to 259.

    The Senate splits 50/50.

    The Republicans hold the House 235 to 200.

    If that's true then the odds for Hillary are crazy.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Essexit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Certainly a Hillary victory just kicks the can down the road. Just as a 52/48 Remain victory would have only kicked the can down the road. Globalisation doesn't care how you vote. The question is whether the lid can be kept on the pressure cooker long enough to complete the transition between hegemonies or whether the lid blows off in Brexit/Brunhilde style.

    Brexit is a reaction to globalisation that perversely will accelerate it. May in India selling visas for trade as an example..
    Exactly. An interesting turn of phrase in last week's New European. " Brexit wasn't an earthquake. It was an aftershock from the death of European Social Democracy. " Using Labour Red backgrounds and the NHS logo to get mourners of European Social Democracy to vote for it was genius.
    Wow, someone actually buys that paper?

    I wonder what the circs are. 15k?
    Think I saw 20k in an article yesterday
    Feels about right.

    I guess they'll go down the 'become a registered supporter' line, soon?
    That never ends well, ask Labour. ;)
    Are the Grauniad still trying that line too?
This discussion has been closed.