Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Two new Westminster voting polls with the same picture: Corbyn

1235789

Comments

  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Looking via wayback machine, Michelle Obama hasn't tweeted anything since 2013

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140415000000*/https://twitter.com/MichelleObama

    And I believe the FLOTUS account is only used for non partisan stuff.

    Facts. What do they show?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Boston Bobblehead
    But-but-but the Russians! The KGB! Oh wait...

    @HillaryClinton Left Classified Documents in China Hotel Room https://t.co/sREVhVUbnh
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    Looking via wayback machine, Michelle Obama hasn't tweeted anything since 2013

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140415000000*/https://twitter.com/MichelleObama

    And I believe the FLOTUS account is only used for non partisan stuff.

    Facts. What do they show?
    Remember all that spam posted on here about how Bernie Sanders hates Hillary Clinton?

    Just seen he's doing eight events for Hillary in the next few days/
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    I don't think that globalism vs parochialism is the driver. It's more about self-government vs internationalism. Are British citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?
    Are English citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?
    Clearly the former as means that decisions are taken on behalf of a smaller number of people and the decision making is closer to the people. Ideally we would go even further and devolve most governmental decisions to the local level although of course this is not practical for everything.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Alistair said:

    Looking via wayback machine, Michelle Obama hasn't tweeted anything since 2013

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140415000000*/https://twitter.com/MichelleObama

    And I believe the FLOTUS account is only used for non partisan stuff.

    Facts. What do they show?
    Remember all that spam posted on here about how Bernie Sanders hates Hillary Clinton?

    Just seen he's doing eight events for Hillary in the next few days/
    Elections make for strange bedfellows ;)
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    The Romans used to crucify dogs.
    ...

    Whilst they had many good points and were very clever in their engineering (have you ever tried doing long division using Roman Numerals), the Romans were actually a very unpleasant people.
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.
    If some racist told you you were not European, you'd agree with them. That's your problem.
    European? Moi?

    I is British, thank you very much!
    And Britain is European. I'm afraid that's non-negotiable, Brexit or no Brexit.
    Whilst Britain is in Europe it is not on the Continent of Europe (which sometimes gets cut off by fog).
    Hmm. Strictly from a geological point of view that is not true. Britain is very much part of the European continent and it is only a temporary quirk of nature that has us separated geographically. We are no less part of the continent of Europe than Sicily.
  • Options

    The Romans used to crucify dogs.
    ...

    Whilst they had many good points and were very clever in their engineering (have you ever tried doing long division using Roman Numerals), the Romans were actually a very unpleasant people.
    You are talking five, eight, maybe even twelve centuries there.

    The early Romans would throw slaves to their deaths off the Tarpian Rock, if required.
  • Options

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    Nope. It is entirely accurate.
    Continental countries like France are very protectionist whilst the UK has always been a global trading nation which recognises the benefits of free trade. This is one reason for the lack of a cultural fit between the EU and the UK.
    Agreed. This is one reason why we have more in relation with the Anglosphere than we do with Europe.
  • Options
    Mr. Llama, they had an odd and complicated view of animals. Tiberius had a pet snake he fed by hand, and when Pompey tried having domesticated elephants killed for sport in the arena, the crowd jeered him.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,141
    Alistair said:

    Looking via wayback machine, Michelle Obama hasn't tweeted anything since 2013

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140415000000*/https://twitter.com/MichelleObama

    And I believe the FLOTUS account is only used for non partisan stuff.

    Facts. What do they show?
    In this instance, apparently that some people who spend their lives scouring the Internet for pro-Trump propaganda are incapable of finding Michelle Obama's Twitter account. Or so they pretend.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Australia curbs flow of disgruntled UK junior doctors
    Visa conditions tightened after surge in interest from British medics"

    https://www.ft.com/content/38513e9a-a029-11e6-86d5-4e36b35c3550
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.
    If some racist told you you were not European, you'd agree with them. That's your problem.
    European? Moi?

    I is British, thank you very much!
    And Britain is European. I'm afraid that's non-negotiable, Brexit or no Brexit.
    Whilst Britain is in Europe it is not on the Continent of Europe (which sometimes gets cut off by fog).
    Hmm. Strictly from a geological point of view that is not true. Britain is very much part of the European continent and it is only a temporary quirk of nature that has us separated geographically. We are no less part of the continent of Europe than Sicily.
    Well yes, Europe can mean many things. It can mean the whole continent from the Urals westwards, or all except the Russian bit, or the EU, or it can mean continental Europe. It's usually clear from the context, and while there's mischief to be had in exasperating continentals by referring to continental Europe as 'Europe', only the strangest would claim that the UK alone in the world is sui generis, sitting outside of continental classification.

    I wonder if the French have a word for 'all of Europe that is not France'?
  • Options

    PlatoSaid said:

    Paul Joseph Watson
    Has @MichelleObama deleted her tweets for the past 3 and a half years?

    Yes

    No she hasn't
    Vladimir Putin did it.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Chris said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Paul Joseph Watson
    Has @MichelleObama deleted her tweets for the past 3 and a half years?

    Yes

    Oh - I think I see what's confusing you now.

    She used to tweet as MichelleObama until early 2013, but has tweeted as FLOTUS since then.
    Oh don't be silly the brietbart alt right don't let little things like facts get in the way.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974

    Mr. Llama, they had an odd and complicated view of animals. Tiberius had a pet snake he fed by hand, and when Pompey tried having domesticated elephants killed for sport in the arena, the crowd jeered him.

    Valentinian was very fond of his two pet she bears, Innocentia and Mica Aurea, to whom he would feed people who had offended him.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,795
    edited November 2016
    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    I don't think that globalism vs parochialism is the driver. It's more about self-government vs internationalism. Are British citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?
    You present the EU and the UK as alternative states. whereas I think most globalists would see them as complementary: the nation state and a supranational body with pooled sovereignty. So it isn't just how you answer the question, but the question itself, that determines your view. Those that see it as either/or versus those that see it as both/and.

  • Options
    Mr. F, I remember that (good old Innocent and Goldflake). I believe they were released into the wild after their master died of apoplexy.

    He was probably the last proper emperor the West had. From memory, Majorian tried to remedy the situation, but it was too far gone.
  • Options
    OGH is clearly a dis-believer and thus a tory stooge...

    Clearly he is deeply rattled and ignores that the current Labour polling is merely the pull-back before the electoral tsunami returns to sweep the 'refreshing' reds to glory in 2020 and beyond.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    I don't think that globalism vs parochialism is the driver. It's more about self-government vs internationalism. Are British citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?
    You present the EU and the UK as alternative states. whereas I think most globalists would see them as complementary: the nation state and a supernational body with pooled sovereignty. So it isn't just how you answer the question, but the question itself, that determines your view. Those that see it as either/or versus those that see it as both/and.

    Except the direction of travel for the EU is towards a state.
  • Options

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    Nope. It is entirely accurate.
    Continental countries like France are very protectionist whilst the UK has always been a global trading nation which recognises the benefits of free trade. This is one reason for the lack of a cultural fit between the EU and the UK.
    Agreed. This is one reason why we have more in relation with the Anglosphere than we do with Europe.
    Completely misreading Brexit sentiment brought pro-EU politicians to the point of being forced to call a referendum. And losing it.
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.
    If some racist told you you were not European, you'd agree with them. That's your problem.
    European? Moi?

    I is British, thank you very much!
    And Britain is European. I'm afraid that's non-negotiable, Brexit or no Brexit.
    Whilst Britain is in Europe it is not on the Continent of Europe (which sometimes gets cut off by fog).
    Hmm. Strictly from a geological point of view that is not true. Britain is very much part of the European continent and it is only a temporary quirk of nature that has us separated geographically. We are no less part of the continent of Europe than Sicily.
    Or Russia.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    I don't think that globalism vs parochialism is the driver. It's more about self-government vs internationalism. Are British citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?
    You present the EU and the UK as alternative states. whereas I think most globalists would see them as complementary: the nation state and a supranational body with pooled sovereignty. So it isn't just how you answer the question, but the question itself, that determines your view. Those that see it as either/or versus those that see it as both/and.

    There's only one direction of travel though. EU-wide institutions don't hand back powers to national institutions.
  • Options

    OGH is clearly a dis-believer and thus a tory stooge...

    Clearly he is deeply rattled and ignores that the current Labour polling is merely the pull-back before the electoral tsunami returns to sweep the 'refreshing' reds to glory in 2020 and beyond.

    I'm writing a thread, and the picture for that thread will be that Guardian 'the day the polls turned' front page.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    Interesting crime statistics — so far this year there have been 8 homicides in Croydon, 1 in Hackney, and zero in Lambeth.

    http://www.murdermap.co.uk/investigate.asp

    The effects of gentrification perhaps?
    Posh people moving to Croydon?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @hugorifkind: After Trump wins & Russia invades Ukraine & Assad crushes Syria & WW3 looms the worst thing will be people saying "stop moaning" on Twitter.

    @hugorifkind: "Only the metropolitan liberal elite are against the death of their children in a fiery global nuclear holocaust" they'll say."Get over it."

    @hugorifkind: "But 50.001% of America voted to turn Earth into the end of Planet of The Apes," they'll say, "and thus the subject is closed, forever."
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,795
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    I don't think that globalism vs parochialism is the driver. It's more about self-government vs internationalism. Are British citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?
    You present the EU and the UK as alternative states. whereas I think most globalists would see them as complementary: the nation state and a supernational body with pooled sovereignty. So it isn't just how you answer the question, but the question itself, that determines your view. Those that see it as either/or versus those that see it as both/and.

    Except the direction of travel for the EU is towards a state.
    People believe that. What people believe determines their judgments. In fact there is essentially no chance of the EU replacing the nation states. No-one important wants it. The EU's real problem, in a way, it is that is NOT a superstate, but is a kind of half way house. Whether you think it's a good idea, or indeed whether it works, depends on whether you think half a solution is better than no solution at all
  • Options
    Mr. 43, the Greek coalition that defeated the Persians became by small steps the Athenian empire. And there was only one city-state that wanted that to happen.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Scott_P said:

    @hugorifkind: After Trump wins & Russia invades Ukraine & Assad crushes Syria & WW3 looms the worst thing will be people saying "stop moaning" on Twitter.

    @hugorifkind: "Only the metropolitan liberal elite are against the death of their children in a fiery global nuclear holocaust" they'll say."Get over it."

    @hugorifkind: "But 50.001% of America voted to turn Earth into the end of Planet of The Apes," they'll say, "and thus the subject is closed, forever."

    I wish he'd stop moaning....
  • Options

    OGH is clearly a dis-believer and thus a tory stooge...

    Clearly he is deeply rattled and ignores that the current Labour polling is merely the pull-back before the electoral tsunami returns to sweep the 'refreshing' reds to glory in 2020 and beyond.

    I'm writing a thread, and the picture for that thread will be that Guardian 'the day the polls turned' front page.
    EICIPM!!!! :lol:
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Scott_P

    @hugorifkind: After Trump wins & Russia invades Ukraine & Assad crushes Syria & WW3 looms the worst thing will be people saying "stop moaning" on Twitter.

    @hugorifkind: "Only the metropolitan liberal elite are against the death of their children in a fiery global nuclear holocaust" they'll say."Get over it."

    @hugorifkind: "But 50.001% of America voted to turn Earth into the end of Planet of The Apes," they'll say, "and thus the subject is closed, forever."


    Is he pissed or on drugs ?

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    OGH is clearly a dis-believer and thus a tory stooge...

    Clearly he is deeply rattled and ignores that the current Labour polling is merely the pull-back before the electoral tsunami returns to sweep the 'refreshing' reds to glory in 2020 and beyond.

    I'm writing a thread, and the picture for that thread will be that Guardian 'the day the polls turned' front page.
    You do spoil us!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    AndyJS said:

    "Australia curbs flow of disgruntled UK junior doctors
    Visa conditions tightened after surge in interest from British medics"

    https://www.ft.com/content/38513e9a-a029-11e6-86d5-4e36b35c3550

    Must be nice to have control of immigration
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2016
    Cookie said:



    I wonder if the French have a word for 'all of Europe that is not France'?

    "pah" [delivered with a Gallic shrug]
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Mr. Llama, they had an odd and complicated view of animals. Tiberius had a pet snake he fed by hand, and when Pompey tried having domesticated elephants killed for sport in the arena, the crowd jeered him.

    But then there was the poena cullei. Not one for animal lovers, however you feel about parricide.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974

    Mr. F, I remember that (good old Innocent and Goldflake). I believe they were released into the wild after their master died of apoplexy.

    He was probably the last proper emperor the West had. From memory, Majorian tried to remedy the situation, but it was too far gone.

    It's one of the funniest passages in Gibbon.
  • Options
    Mr. Rex, was that the chap being put in a sack with a cock, a dog and a snake then tossed into the Thames?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Arizona - Data Orbital - Sample 550 - 29-30 Oct

    Clinton 41 .. Trump 45

    http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=5a280d25318f2afe3f311adb6&id=215d65b9fa&e=
  • Options

    Mr. Rex, was that the chap being put in a sack with a cock, a dog and a snake then tossed into the Thames?

    Tiber, surely, Mr Dancer!
  • Options
    Dr. Prasannan, congratulations on spotting the entirely deliberate error.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Mr. Rex, was that the chap being put in a sack with a cock, a dog and a snake then tossed into the Thames?

    Probably the Tiber but yep, that was the one.
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    I don't think that globalism vs parochialism is the driver. It's more about self-government vs internationalism. Are British citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?
    Are English citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?

    There is no such thing as a citizen of England currently. I may well die one, though.

  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    If Clinton loses (and her support in the polls is dropping faster than Monica Lewinski on Bill) then it probably won't be the e-mails and security, it is more likely to be the news that the FBI are investigating the Clinton Foundation.

    (Unless Weiner can point directly to something really nasty (involving Clinton - I am sure there is plenty of nasty stuff on that laptop) and it comes out - pretty unlikely given that due process must be observed).

    The question is: can she hang on?. It is going to be a long week.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    JackW said:

    Arizona - Data Orbital - Sample 550 - 29-30 Oct

    Clinton 41 .. Trump 45

    http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=5a280d25318f2afe3f311adb6&id=215d65b9fa&e=

    Whilst that'd normally have GOP strategists reaching for the sick bucket it is actually decent for Trump given his weakness with Latino voters.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/793486511043817472

    Just returned home to read this. Insanity. The excuse given is risible.
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Cliff Richard.
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Joanna Lumley :)
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/793486511043817472

    Just returned home to read this. Insanity. The excuse given is risible.

    Krooked Keith :lol:
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Faria Chideya of 538 looks at how Mexican-Americans are influencing the contest in Arizona and more widely in the US :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mexican-americans-are-reshaping-the-electoral-map-in-arizona-and-the-u-s/
  • Options
    john_zims said:


    ...................snip
    Is he pissed or on drugs ?

    @Scott_P or @hugorifkind?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Orwell & Kipling !
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/793486511043817472

    Just returned home to read this. Insanity. The excuse given is risible.

    Even from a politicking point of view I simply don't understand this decision. It seems completely perverse.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pulpstar said:

    JackW said:

    Arizona - Data Orbital - Sample 550 - 29-30 Oct

    Clinton 41 .. Trump 45

    http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=5a280d25318f2afe3f311adb6&id=215d65b9fa&e=

    Whilst that'd normally have GOP strategists reaching for the sick bucket it is actually decent for Trump given his weakness with Latino voters.
    A better poll for Trump but these small sample sizes irk me and more importantly is their structural weakness in polling Hispanics.
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Spike Milligan
  • Options
    john_zims said:

    @Scott_P

    @hugorifkind: After Trump wins & Russia invades Ukraine & Assad crushes Syria & WW3 looms the worst thing will be people saying "stop moaning" on Twitter.

    @hugorifkind: "Only the metropolitan liberal elite are against the death of their children in a fiery global nuclear holocaust" they'll say."Get over it."

    @hugorifkind: "But 50.001% of America voted to turn Earth into the end of Planet of The Apes," they'll say, "and thus the subject is closed, forever."


    Is he pissed or on drugs ?

    Hugo Rifkind or ScottP?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Hugo Rifkind or ScottP?

    Too slow

    Cheerio...
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/793486511043817472

    Just returned home to read this. Insanity. The excuse given is risible.

    Even from a politicking point of view I simply don't understand this decision. It seems completely perverse.
    Can anyone provide a reasonable explanation as to what the hell the Tories were playing at? So much for trying to improve their already poor image.
  • Options
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    If only that were true.

    It is, sadly, a complete fantasy.
    I don't think that globalism vs parochialism is the driver. It's more about self-government vs internationalism. Are British citizens best served by governing themselves in a sovereign State, or are they best served by being part of the government of a much bigger State, comprising other peoples?
    You present the EU and the UK as alternative states. whereas I think most globalists would see them as complementary: the nation state and a supernational body with pooled sovereignty. So it isn't just how you answer the question, but the question itself, that determines your view. Those that see it as either/or versus those that see it as both/and.

    Except the direction of travel for the EU is towards a state.
    People believe that. What people believe determines their judgments. In fact there is essentially no chance of the EU replacing the nation states. No-one important wants it. The EU's real problem, in a way, it is that is NOT a superstate, but is a kind of half way house. Whether you think it's a good idea, or indeed whether it works, depends on whether you think half a solution is better than no solution at all
    It is not just that people believe it, it is that in Europe it is regularly stated as an objective by politicians. It is also the fact that for the Euro to survive long term there needs to be just that sort of political union. To claim this is simply a matter of perception ignores all the basic indicators that it is still the direction of travel both by design and by necessity.
  • Options
    MP_SE said:

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/793486511043817472

    Just returned home to read this. Insanity. The excuse given is risible.

    Even from a politicking point of view I simply don't understand this decision. It seems completely perverse.
    Can anyone provide a reasonable explanation as to what the hell the Tories were playing at? So much for trying to improve their already poor image.
    Isn't Krooked Keith a Labour MP?
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.
    If some racist told you you were not European, you'd agree with them. That's your problem.
    European? Moi?

    I is British, thank you very much!
    And Britain is European. I'm afraid that's non-negotiable, Brexit or no Brexit.
    Whilst Britain is in Europe it is not on the Continent of Europe (which sometimes gets cut off by fog).
    Hmm. Strictly from a geological point of view that is not true. Britain is very much part of the European continent and it is only a temporary quirk of nature that has us separated geographically. We are no less part of the continent of Europe than Sicily.
    Or Russia.
    Well at least as far as the Urals.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    His 25th death anniversary is later this month.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Spike Milligan
    Freddie Mercury?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    ?? Farrokh Bulsara from Tanzania.

    Interesting definition of a "white indian" there !
  • Options
    MP_SE said:
    I see they managed to get a plane into the shot.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited November 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    ?? Farrokh Bulsara from Tanzania.

    Interesting definition of a "white indian" there !
    He was of Parsi descent though. And how exactly do you define "White" anyway?
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Joanna Lumley
  • Options
    MP_SE said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Joanna Lumley
    I already mentioned her!
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    ?? Farrokh Bulsara from Tanzania.

    Interesting definition of a "white indian" there !
    He is ethnically Parsi, as a group and personally from India.
  • Options
    weejonnie said:

    If Clinton loses (and her support in the polls is dropping faster than Monica Lewinski on Bill) then it probably won't be the e-mails and security, it is more likely to be the news that the FBI are investigating the Clinton Foundation.

    (Unless Weiner can point directly to something really nasty (involving Clinton - I am sure there is plenty of nasty stuff on that laptop) and it comes out - pretty unlikely given that due process must be observed).

    The question is: can she hang on?. It is going to be a long week.

    can she hang on? Yes. Next.
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Spike Milligan

    He was Irish.

  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    Hugo Rifkind or ScottP?

    Too slow

    Cheerio...
    Are you leaving? That is a relief.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    Biggles!
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Spike Milligan

    He was Irish.

    Brendan "Darkie" Hughes was also Irish.
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Spike Milligan

    He was Irish.

    Strictly at the time he was born Ireland was still British.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MP_SE said:

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/793486511043817472

    Just returned home to read this. Insanity. The excuse given is risible.

    Even from a politicking point of view I simply don't understand this decision. It seems completely perverse.
    Can anyone provide a reasonable explanation as to what the hell the Tories were playing at? So much for trying to improve their already poor image.
    Isn't Krooked Keith a Labour MP?
    159 out of the 203 votes came from Tories.

    http://order-order.com/2016/11/01/tory-whips-saved-vaz/
  • Options

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    Sir Cliff was mentioned upthread.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Scott_P said:

    Hugo Rifkind or ScottP?

    Too slow

    Cheerio...
    Are you leaving? That is a relief.
    You'll just have to go to Twitter to read the funniest tweets of the day.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    ?? Farrokh Bulsara from Tanzania.

    Interesting definition of a "white indian" there !
    He was of Parsi descent though. And how exactly do you define "White" anyway?
    I think he was genetically entirely Parsi?

    And my definition of "white" was "what the common person in the street considers them" - it's a sign of the tolerance of the UK that no one cared about his heritage one way or another
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MP_SE said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Joanna Lumley
    I already mentioned her!
    She is worth two mentions!
  • Options
    MP_SE said:

    MP_SE said:

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/793486511043817472

    Just returned home to read this. Insanity. The excuse given is risible.

    Even from a politicking point of view I simply don't understand this decision. It seems completely perverse.
    Can anyone provide a reasonable explanation as to what the hell the Tories were playing at? So much for trying to improve their already poor image.
    Isn't Krooked Keith a Labour MP?
    159 out of the 203 votes came from Tories.

    http://order-order.com/2016/11/01/tory-whips-saved-vaz/
    Oops I thought you meant the Rebels!
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    JackW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JackW said:

    Arizona - Data Orbital - Sample 550 - 29-30 Oct

    Clinton 41 .. Trump 45

    http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=5a280d25318f2afe3f311adb6&id=215d65b9fa&e=

    Whilst that'd normally have GOP strategists reaching for the sick bucket it is actually decent for Trump given his weakness with Latino voters.
    A better poll for Trump but these small sample sizes irk me and more importantly is their structural weakness in polling Hispanics.
    Latest Florida votes

    Mail Provided (Not .. 436,754 516,412 31,045 289,185
    Voted Vote-by-Mail 865,187 793,105 51,842 344,385
    Voted Early in person 783,416 839,572 46,617 353,397

    With the Republican lead in Voted by mail now up to 72,000 and the Democrat lead in Voted early 56,000 I think that this is better for the Republicans (who only held a net 9000 lead a couple of days ago).

    However, as usual we don't know who they voted for, nor the independents.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    Curious bias towards the arts - or is that just the ones that we remember?
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    MP_SE said:
    I find myself unable to stop thinking about those eyebrows. Wondering what happens when she's surprised.
  • Options

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Spike Milligan

    He was Irish.

    Strictly at the time he was born Ireland was still British.

    But not when he died. He was an Irish citizen.

  • Options
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    Curious bias towards the arts - or is that just the ones that we remember?
    I just found a website that mentioned famous Brits born in India. It has more of course including plenty of Indian descent but that was kind of outside the scope of the discussion here.
  • Options

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    British Indians, or British people born in India? Would Indians see them as Indians?

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited November 2016
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    ?? Farrokh Bulsara from Tanzania.

    Interesting definition of a "white indian" there !
    He was of Parsi descent though. And how exactly do you define "White" anyway?
    I think he was genetically entirely Parsi?

    And my definition of "white" was "what the common person in the street considers them" - it's a sign of the tolerance of the UK that no one cared about his heritage one way or another
    That seems a reasonable definition to me.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    ?? Farrokh Bulsara from Tanzania.

    Interesting definition of a "white indian" there !
    He was of Parsi descent though. And how exactly do you define "White" anyway?
    I think he was genetically entirely Parsi?

    And my definition of "white" was "what the common person in the street considers them" - it's a sign of the tolerance of the UK that no one cared about his heritage one way or another

    Because he was white? :-)

  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    matt said:

    MP_SE said:
    I find myself unable to stop thinking about those eyebrows. Wondering what happens when she's surprised.
    Harsh but true.

    Interestingly Teresa Gorman had tattooed eyebrows.
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited November 2016

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    British Indians, or British people born in India? Would Indians see them as Indians?

    Double post.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:
    Depends what the massive Independents surge means.
  • Options
    matt said:

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    British Indians, or British people born in India? Would Indians see them as Indians?

    We can't stop Indians being racist.

    I am not sure it is racist to believe that Rudyard Kipling was not an Indian. I would be very surprised if he considered himself an Indian. Maybe Anglo-Indian, but that is very different.

  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited November 2016

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    British Indians, or British people born in India? Would Indians see them as Indians?

    One cant stop Indians being racists and ethnic nationalists. We don't have to apply the same debased standards.
  • Options

    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant essay on Brexit, Trump, populism, globalism. Whatever your persuasion: READ IT

    http://www.humansandnature.org/the-ethics-of-globalism-nationalism-and-patriotism

    It's incredibly perceptive, and full of insight.


    Brexit specifically is a decision to turn away from a global Britain to a parochial one. .
    I'd argue it was a decision to turn away from the parochial (and crap) EU and face the entire globe.

    .... from behind closed borders and high walls. Doesn't Brexit mean anti-immigration?
    Not all countries are in the EU!
    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting that Brexit is anti-immigration from the EU but not from the rest of the world? I'm struggling to make sense of your comment.

    For some reason, Sunil seems to believe that it is racist to allow free movement for British Indians inside the EU but not for Indians who live in India.

    EU countries are majority white, most non-EU countries are majority non-white.

    So what? Free movement in the EU is not predicated on skin colour or ethnicity, just citizenship.

    How many Polish plumbers are non-white?

    How many British Indians are white?

    Freddie Mercury
    Interesting list:

    Joanna Lumley
    Vivien Leigh
    Rudyard Kipling
    Paddy Ashdown
    Eric Blair
    Bob Woolmer
    Colin Cowdrey
    William Thackery Makepeace
    Gerald Durrell

    British Indians, or British people born in India? Would Indians see them as Indians?

    I have no idea. Certainly I would count an Indian born in Britain as British. I see no reason why the reverse should not be true unless there is a specific legal impediment.
This discussion has been closed.