My main problem with certain remainers is the conviction leading them away from even questioning the means, the method or the mood music.
Happy to give away the keys to the shop in order to afford a few more Lattes every week and keep power away from those people who don't agree.
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And in leaving what extra power do they have? The government will still be formed by the party best able to put together a coalition of 35% of the voters, and those who control all the levers of the state are not going to change either.
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
I think you mean "recognised that they were doomed and tried to move on from them". Or have you forgotten that manufacturing suffered more both before and after her time than during it?
"Recognised that they were doomed and tried to move on"
It doesn't sound like what the Brexit vote was for.
It precisely does if you think the 'they' is unrestrained neo-liberalism.
@SouthamObserver Again that's brilliantly point. After a life time with my political views being in the 48.1% is vastly more mainstream than I've ever been ! coming.
me.
My main problem with certain remainers is the conviction leading them away from even questioning the means, the method or the mood music.
Happy to give away the keys to the shop in order to afford a few more Lattes every week and keep power away from those people who don't agree.
It's are not going to change either.
I know it wouldn't be your intention SO.
Control is a very potent theme; but it is more than that, control is the means by which those without economic power seek to better their lot and rediscover their pride.
No, I don't see how it is pat5% or so of voters in the most efficient way.
It sounds patronising and self interested because it aligns with the social bias and economic interests of the metropolitan elite who also have a monopoly on power (albeit in varying shades of governing party).
It says 'this awful situation you're in is the best you're going to get' - meanwhile the 1% continue to enrich themselves and force upon the same struggling groups liberal social policy that often sticks in the craw.
No, it doesn't say that - that's what you want it to say. It's actually saying that the elite in this country is totally embedded and will not change one iota as a result of the referendum. And it is saying that those who will be most adversely affected by Leave are those who have been mostly adversely affected by globalisation.
It's too early to say.
The monied elite will always be there certainly but they've just had their first decent kick in the balls for half a century.
Wilson?
I'd make it Attlee.....and nearly three quarters of a century.....
So it's her fault we voted to LEAVE, not say, Cameron's botched renegotiation, or Labour's far from convincing support for Remain?
Glad we cleared that up.....
It was her choice to interpret the vote as a mandate for the HARDEST Brexit possible, with added Xenophobia on top
The Ashcroft poll showed that people voted to LEAVE because of 1) Sovereignty and 2) Immigration. Which is exactly what May set out in her speech.
Leaving the EU was thought more likely to bring about a better immigration system, improved border controls, a fairer welfare system, better quality of life, and the ability to control our own laws
Sorry, this false dichotomy between 'Soft' and 'Hard' Brexit is really about 'staying in' vs 'coming out' - and the people voted to 'come out'.
Somehow, May needs rid of Carney and to control Hammond. 'The enemy within' isn't a bad discription. Carney and other recent appointees are more loyal to 'the international system' than they are to Britain's interests. That much is abundantly clear. The problem (one amongst many) would be that sacking him would undermine confidence and he would relish his role talking down our economy.
Perhaps the best thing would be to change the make up of the MPC so Carney was out-voted.
My main problem with certain remainers is the conviction leading them away from even questioning the means, the method or the mood music.
Happy to give away the keys to the shop in order to afford a few more Lattes every week and keep power away from those people who don't agree.
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And in leaving what extra power do they have? The government will still be formed by the party best able to put together a coalition of 35% of the voters, and those who control all the levers of the state are not going to change either.
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
I think you mean "recognised that they were doomed and tried to move on from them". Or have you forgotten that manufacturing suffered more both before and after her time than during it?
"Recognised that they were doomed and tried to move on"
It doesn't sound like what the Brexit vote was for.
No, that's absolutely what it was. Recognising that the EU is doomed to a path that we have no interest in following, and moving on before it's too late.
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for what the people of Britain did on June 23rd.
That was the claim during the referendum; But the voters don't want immigration. It's not that they don't want Polish immigration. They don't want immigration.
And if you don't want your domestic government overruled by a court in Luxembourg, you're probably not going to be keen on Investor-State Dispute Settlement courts either.
Everything coming out of the Conservative conference speeches says Sakoku, and nothing says Globalism.
I think only a very small number want no immigration. A much larger proportion of the population - quite possibly a sizeable majority - just wanted SOMEBODY to show they were listening to their concerns.
Concerns about the nature of their communities changing, without ever being asked their views. The absence of democratic input. Further, without any admission this change was going to happen (despite it being very clear that the Labour Govt. 1997/2010 was determined to change the nature of these communities - possibly for some high falutin' notion of multiculturalism being the right thing to do, possibly for some base political advantage). And to be fair, the Coalition and then the Cameron Tory majority Govt. carried on as before, their Budget assumptions requiring large scale migration to keep the economy growing.
So schools got overcrowded, housing spiralled in cost (both owned and rented) and the NHS creaked at the seams. Just-about-at-breaking-point has become the default budget setting for normal in our public services. All this happened whilst Labour refused to acknowledge the scale of the financial claims this increased population would make on the Exchequer. The Tories at least made pledges on increasing NHS spending that Labour wouldn't make. But education and housing are still deeply problematic.
Theresa May is now cast as the SOMEBODY who has to listen. Her first Conference suggests she has. Her second and especially her third, when the Brexit negotiations will be largely formed, will tell us much more.
Daily News How can any black or Muslim voter still support Hillary after this bigotry and racism? #PodestaEmails #TrumpTapes #WikiLeaks https://t.co/jt3XXoBs4I
My main problem with certain remainers is the conviction leading them away from even questioning the means, the method or the mood music.
Happy to give away the keys to the shop in order to afford a few more Lattes every week and keep power away from those people who don't agree.
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And in leaving what extra power do they have? The government will still be formed by the party best able to put together a coalition of 35% of the voters, and those who control all the levers of the state are not going to change either.
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
That will be the same Mrs Thatcher who's government subsidised the coal industry and who left office with manufacturing output at a then all time:
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
Daily News How can any black or Muslim voter still support Hillary after this bigotry and racism? #PodestaEmails #TrumpTapes #WikiLeaks https://t.co/jt3XXoBs4I
My main problem with certain remainers is the conviction leading them away from even questioning the means, the method or the mood music.
Happy to give away the keys to the shop in order to afford a few more Lattes every week and keep power away from those people who don't agree.
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And in leaving what extra power do they have? The government will still be formed by the party best able to put together a coalition of 35% of the voters, and those who control all the levers of the state are not going to change either.
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
That will be the same Mrs Thatcher who's government subsidised the coal industry and who left office with manufacturing output at a then all time:
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
So it's her fault we voted to LEAVE, not say, Cameron's botched renegotiation, or Labour's far from convincing support for Remain?
Glad we cleared that up.....
It was her choice to interpret the vote as a mandate for the HARDEST Brexit possible, with added Xenophobia on top
The Ashcroft poll showed that people voted to LEAVE because of 1) Sovereignty and 2) Immigration. Which is exactly what May set out in her speech.
Leaving the EU was thought more likely to bring about a better immigration system, improved border controls, a fairer welfare system, better quality of life, and the ability to control our own laws
Sorry, this false dichotomy between 'Soft' and 'Hard' Brexit is really about 'staying in' vs 'coming out' - and the people voted to 'come out'.
May needs rid of Carney and to control Hammond..
Actually, I think they're both fine.
May needs Hammond because she needs someone to stand up to her - being of fairly similar temperaments I suspect they get on well - have a fair old ding dong, but remain friends - Boris will forever be seen through the eyes of a plotting successor....
Carney is the face of 'continuity' and if he erred on the side of excess caution in the aftermath of the vote I'm sure it will be sorted out shortly.....
Having listened to the tape, its the sort of thing insecure braggarts say and have said down the ages......so nothing new there then......I suspect a lot of this is priced in - tho the GOP in full pearl clutching mode is a vision to behold....what may be more damaging is his response.....classic 'look squirrel'......hasn't exactly got 'rising above it' written all over it.....
depends if he actually did what he said. I suspect there will be some people coming out to say how he did what he said he would very soon...
They already said it before. It just didn't get reported much. Search on "Jill Harth". Here's what she filed in court in 1997:
"On or about December 12th, 1992, at a subsequent business/dinner meeting at the Plaza Hotel, to discuss the newly-formed venture between American Dream Festival, the defendant Trump repeatedly put his hands on plaintiff's thighs and violated plaintiff's 'physical and mental integrity' by attempting to touch plaintiff's intimate private parts in violation of plaintiff's fundamental constitutional right to privacy and physical autonomy as a citizen of the United States."
She also describes a scene in which Trump took her into one of his children’s bedrooms at Mar-a-Lago, threw her against the wall, began touching her all over, and lifted up her dress. That was when her partner was in the next room.
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere. In other words socially liberal.
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere.
ROFL
you forgot self-righteous boring prats who havent actually done anything much with their youth.
Daily News How can any black or Muslim voter still support Hillary after this bigotry and racism? #PodestaEmails #TrumpTapes #WikiLeaks https://t.co/jt3XXoBs4I
My main problem with certain remainers is the conviction leading them away from even questioning the means, the method or the mood music.
Happy to give away the keys to the shop in order to afford a few more Lattes every week and keep power away from those people who don't agree.
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And in leaving what extra power do they have? The government will still be formed by the party best able to put together a coalition of 35% of the voters, and those who control all the levers of the state are not going to change either.
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
That will be the same Mrs Thatcher who's government subsidised the coal industry and who left office with manufacturing output at a then all time:
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
yes all of that but Thatcher! Thatcher!
Still deeply contaminating the Tory party in the North and in South Wales. Whether Mrs May can con them now will be interesting, but I think not. They are not idiots.
Daily News How can any black or Muslim voter still support Hillary after this bigotry and racism? #PodestaEmails #TrumpTapes #WikiLeaks https://t.co/jt3XXoBs4I
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere.
ROFL
you forgot self-righteous boring prats who havent actually done anything much with their youth.
Shhhh!
The Camerooons are still fragile - you should have given them a safe space warning.....
I think the debate will move on a bit. It will be between isolationists and globalists. While Brexit is a victory for isolationism, it hasn't resolved the issue. New battles will be over immigration policy, whether to establish a relationship with the EU Army, whether to join EU standards programmes etc. There will be some who voted Leave who will be ardent globalists and vice versa. Equally the debate won't be confined to the UK. The isolationism versus globalisation fight is raging just about everywhere in the developed world.
My main problem with certain remainers is the conviction leading them away from even questioning the means, the method or the mood music.
Happy to give away the keys to the shop in order to afford a few more Lattes every week and keep power away from those people who don't agree.
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And in leaving what extra power do they have? The government will still be formed by the party best able to put together a coalition of 35% of the voters, and those who control all the levers of the state are not going to change either.
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neolibeast or the rag trade of Leicester.
That will be the same Mrs Thatcher who's government subsidised the coal industry and who left office with manufacturing output at a then all time:
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle dgood indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
yes all of that but Thatcher! Thatcher!
Still deeply contaminating the Tory party in the North and in South Wales. Whether Mrs May can con them now will be interesting, but I think not. They are not idiots.
Oh get real Doc.
voting patterns in the North and Wales have been like that for a century. Voting patterns in the UK have been the celtic fringe and the North versus the Midlands and South for most of that period.
The shift if there is one in Wales and the North isnt away from the Tories but away from Labour to other other parties.
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And in leaving what extra power do they have? The government will still be formed by the party best able to put together a coalition of 35% of the voters, and those who control all the levers of the state are not going to change either.
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
That will be the same Mrs Thatcher who's government subsidised the coal industry and who left office with manufacturing output at a then all time:
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
yes all of that but Thatcher! Thatcher!
Still deeply contaminating the Tory party in the North and in South Wales. Whether Mrs May can con them now will be interesting, but I think not. They are not idiots.
If she follows her conference vision, and she will, she will become extremely popular - so how can it be described as a 'con'
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat' They have tweeted to say they would not speculate on circling rumours Speculation they elude to is people have been taken hostage by gunman
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat' They have tweeted to say they would not speculate on circling rumours Speculation they elude to is people have been taken hostage by gunman
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere. In other words socially liberal.
Your stereotyping of age groups I find deeply unsettling. Stereotyping has long been seen as a very unhealthy trait and is relation to most demographic factors is socially unacceptable in this day and age if not downright illegal. It is also stupid.
We see on this board every day that there is a mix of attitudes amongst those richer in years towards the EU and just about every other political topic. As for the youngsters, well my son spent most of his summer holiday with an inter-rail ticket travelling around Europe but he and all the students he shared a house with last year were ardently for leaving the EU.
Please can we avoid lazy stereotypes and other prejudices.
Daily News How can any black or Muslim voter still support Hillary after this bigotry and racism? #PodestaEmails #TrumpTapes #WikiLeaks https://t.co/jt3XXoBs4I
Because the alternative is Trump?
Oh, and is this one real or fake?
the wikileaks dump is a damp squib: US intelligence saying russia is using them to distribuite forgeries means u cant trust anything they leak, and pussygate is the bigger story
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
That will be the same Mrs Thatcher who's government subsidised the coal industry and who left office with manufacturing output at a then all time:
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
yes all of that but Thatcher! Thatcher!
Still deeply contaminating the Tory party in the North and in South Wales. Whether Mrs May can con them now will be interesting, but I think not. They are not idiots.
But haven't we been told that they ARE idiots by voting for Leave ?
And its the industrial areas of the North and Wales (and Midlands) which have swung rightwards during the last decade - Gower and Morley and Telford and Sherwood being examples.
It is the urban middle classes where the Conservatives have gone backwards.
What May is now doing, by accident or design, is swimming with that tide. Whereas the Cameroons were swimming against it.
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
Good points, but the trick is to look at the geographical distribution. The benefits and costs were not evenly distributed. The areas that hated Thatcher and those that loved her did so for legitimate reasons.
I think the debate will move on a bit. It will be between isolationists and globalists. While Brexit is a victory for isolationism, it hasn't resolved the issue. New battles will be over immigration policy, whether to establish a relationship with the EU Army, whether to join EU standards programmes etc. There will be some who voted Leave who will be ardent globalists and vice versa. Equally the debate won't be confined to the UK. The isolationism versus globalisation fight is raging just about everywhere in the developed world.
Brexit a victory for "isolationism"? Is it bollocks. The UK was "isolated" by having to live with whatever position the EU wanted us to take with regard to trading with other nations. The door of that particular "isolationism" has now been smashed down...
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere.
ROFL
you forgot self-righteous boring prats who havent actually done anything much with their youth.
Shhhh!
The Camerooons are still fragile - you should have given them a safe space warning.....
They seemed fine with f*cking a pig's head, I don't think they're that fragile.
If she follows her conference vision, and she will, she will become extremely popular - so how can it be described as a 'con'
Thatchers mistake wasnt to close down those industries it was to badly manage the closures , ie do it too hastily, leaving a ten year gap between them closing and any replacement employment appearing.
The losses while significant were not so huge in the scheme of things that closure couldnt have been spread out over a longer period.
Same as with the railways in the sixties. While there were plenty of basket case lines, the governments remit to make the railways pay virtually overnight meant a lot of marginal lines which would be viable now and are badly needed went.
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
There are a couple of things that need to be remembered to avoid falling into the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy.
Firstly, the trends you identify have happened almost everywhere in the world, from countries with minimal immigration, and who have resisted globalisation (Japan), to the US and the UK.
Those who have avoided it have been those blessed with massive mineral wealth at a time when commodity prices were booming (Australian and Canada), and those whose education systems did the best job of training the next 75% (Germany and Switzerland).
Secondly, the 80s and 90s might have seen the well being of many improve, but it came on the back of a big drawdawn of the wealth of the UK. In the early 1980s, the UK was in credit with the rest of the world to the tune of about 60 to 70% of GDP. So, every year, money from overseas assets flowed into the UK economy. The massive explosion in consumer debt and the decline of the savings rate meant that we've gone from being in credit to the rest of the world, to being severely in debt. And our big current account deficit (close to 7% of GDP in the first half of the year) means this gets worse every year. To close this gap is going to require genuine austerity at some point.
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat' They have tweeted to say they would not speculate on circling rumours Speculation they elude to is people have been taken hostage by gunman
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat' They have tweeted to say they would not speculate on circling rumours Speculation they elude to is people have been taken hostage by gunman
Dear old Karl Marx Stadt.
One of those old failing industrial towns
Thatcher closed all the factories you know.
The soaring pound in the first few years of Mrs Thatcher's premiership probably closed more factories than her policies*.
* A salutary reminder that devaluing the currency is in the hands of the market, not the government.
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere. In other words socially liberal.
Your stereotyping of age groups I find deeply unsettling. Stereotyping has long been seen as a very unhealthy trait and is relation to most demographic factors is socially unacceptable in this day and age if not downright illegal. It is also stupid.
We see on this board every day that there is a mix of attitudes amongst those richer in years towards the EU and just about every other political topic. As for the youngsters, well my son spent most of his summer holiday with an inter-rail ticket travelling around Europe but he and all the students he shared a house with last year were ardently for leaving the EU.
Please can we avoid lazy stereotypes and other prejudices.
On both sides there were exceptions, but Leavers were older, less skilled, more provincial than those voting Remain (in England and Wales). It was the old folk wot won it.
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat' They have tweeted to say they would not speculate on circling rumours Speculation they elude to is people have been taken hostage by gunman
Dear old Karl Marx Stadt.
One of those old failing industrial towns
Thatcher closed all the factories you know.
The soaring pound in the first few years of Mrs Thatcher's premiership probably closed more factories than her policies*.
* A salutary reminder that devaluing the currency is in the hands of the market, not the government.
Her mistake was, faced with a soaring pound due to the one off situation of north sea oil coming on line just after the Iranian revolution throttled world oil supplies, to implement economic darwinism at just the wrong time - the one time when state aid really was needed to help manufacturers through the rising petropound making their products more expensive.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat' They have tweeted to say they would not speculate on circling rumours Speculation they elude to is people have been taken hostage by gunman
Dear old Karl Marx Stadt.
One of those old failing industrial towns
Thatcher closed all the factories you know.
The soaring pound in the first few years of Mrs Thatcher's premiership probably closed more factories than her policies*.
* A salutary reminder that devaluing the currency is in the hands of the market, not the government.
The pound soaring did a lot of damage to manufacturing in the Midlands and the North, but was in large part down to the anti-inflationary monetary policy of the Thatcher government.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere. In other words socially liberal.
Your stereotyping of age groups I find deeply unsettling. Stereotyping has long been seen as a very unhealthy trait and is relation to most demographic factors is socially unacceptable in this day and age if not downright illegal. It is also stupid.
We see on this board every day that there is a mix of attitudes amongst those richer in years towards the EU and just about every other political topic. As for the youngsters, well my son spent most of his summer holiday with an inter-rail ticket travelling around Europe but he and all the students he shared a house with last year were ardently for leaving the EU.
Please can we avoid lazy stereotypes and other prejudices.
On both sides there were exceptions, but Leavers were older, less skilled, more provincial than those voting Remain (in England and Wales). It was the old folk wot won it.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
Have you seen Charles Moore's article in today's Telegraph, Mr. Brooke?
He seems rather concerned that Mrs. May does want to tell businesses how they should be run and will pass laws to make them do it. Well worth a read.
Also from the same paper is an article by an eminent oncologist that points to one of the possible benefits of leaving the iron hand of EU regulation. Again well worth a read, and I should be very interested to hear @FoxinSox's views on it.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
Have you seen Charles Moore's article in today's Telegraph, Mr. Brooke?
He seems rather concerned that Mrs. May does want to tell businesses how they should be run and will pass laws to make them do it. Well worth a read.
Also from the same paper is an article by an eminent oncologist that points to one of the possible benefits of leaving the iron hand of EU regulation. Again well worth a read, and I should be very interested to hear @FoxinSox's views on it.
"For all these reasons I strongly believe Mrs May will be obliged to call a general election well before the five years are up. Judging from his decision a fortnight ago to place Labour on an election footing, Jeremy Corbyn agrees with me. I doubt an election is imminent, but next spring would be the natural moment for Mrs May to seek an endorsement from the British people."
"For all these reasons I strongly believe Mrs May will be obliged to call a general election well before the five years are up. Judging from his decision a fortnight ago to place Labour on an election footing, Jeremy Corbyn agrees with me. I doubt an election is imminent, but next spring would be the natural moment for Mrs May to seek an endorsement from the British people."
It's not too late for Trump to be replaced as the Republican candidate.
In the 2002 US Senate election in New Jersey, sitting Democratic senator Robert Torricelli dropped out of the race after scandals caused his performance in polls to go through the floor. The Democrats chose Frank Lautenberg as his replacement, but to get him onto the ballots they had to go to the state Supreme Court. They won the case, and 34 days before the election the court allowed new ballots to be printed, carrying Lautenberg's name instead of Torricelli's.
In the 1992 election in New York state to the US House of Representatives, sitting congressmen Theodore Weiss died on 14 September. The Democrats chose Jerrold Nadler as his replacement, and took a "vote Weiss to elect Nadler" approach, which was successful.
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere. In other words socially liberal.
Your stereotyping of age groups I find deeply unsettling. Stereotyping has long been seen as a very unhealthy trait and is relation to most demographic factors is socially unacceptable in this day and age if not downright illegal. It is also stupid.
We see on this board every day that there is a mix of attitudes amongst those richer in years towards the EU and just about every other political topic. As for the youngsters, well my son spent most of his summer holiday with an inter-rail ticket travelling around Europe but he and all the students he shared a house with last year were ardently for leaving the EU.
Please can we avoid lazy stereotypes and other prejudices.
On both sides there were exceptions, but Leavers were older, less skilled, more provincial than those voting Remain (in England and Wales). It was the old folk wot won it.
chortle
you make the Leavers sound like a minority.
They may well be, but are certainly in majority in voting, hence our gerontocracy.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
Have you seen Charles Moore's article in today's Telegraph, Mr. Brooke?
He seems rather concerned that Mrs. May does want to tell businesses how they should be run and will pass laws to make them do it. Well worth a read.
Also from the same paper is an article by an eminent oncologist that points to one of the possible benefits of leaving the iron hand of EU regulation. Again well worth a read, and I should be very interested to hear @FoxinSox's views on it.
I havent seen it but I will say we've let ourselves be guiled by Mammon. There's nothing wrong with giving business a kick up the arse every so often. Money isnt the sole arbiter of life imo.
The eventual outcome of capitailsm is oligolpoly\monopoly which clealy isnt in the voters interest. Currently we see this though corporatism. Their tax affairs are a good example of what happens if you let them do what they want. Occasionally the pieces just all need to be broken up.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
Have you seen Charles Moore's article in today's Telegraph, Mr. Brooke?
He seems rather concerned that Mrs. May does want to tell businesses how they should be run and will pass laws to make them do it. Well worth a read.
Also from the same paper is an article by an eminent oncologist that points to one of the possible benefits of leaving the iron hand of EU regulation. Again well worth a read, and I should be very interested to hear @FoxinSox's views on it.
Drug trials in oncology are almost all multinational nowadays, and in order to get a product licence in the major markets (USA and EU) will have to meet the critera for those countries.
There certainly has been a lot more regulation of research over the years, and innovation is often strangled by it. I cannot even send a questionnaire to patients without filling in a 56 page R and D form and Ethics approval form. That is set by our local masters though.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
Also from the same paper is an article by an eminent oncologist that points to one of the possible benefits of leaving the iron hand of EU regulation. Again well worth a read, and I should be very interested to hear @FoxinSox's views on it.
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat' Officers are dealing with a suspected bomb attack plot, police have said Armed police are scaling a block of flats and have set up barricades
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
Would you be happy with a levelling down of incomes in the SE to get a more even distribution of income?
GDP growing faster than the EZ is a pretty poor indicator. We already do that.
@Scott_P The problem is May is right. The Leave win was a clear statement huge reductions in immigration is the No 1 socio economic priority for Britain. A decisive group of swing voters think it will make them better off socio economically. The fact they are deluded is neither here nor there. We're a democracy and we asked voters in a referendum to make a clear choice on an intelligible question. What else could any new PM do ?
Clear events may over take the referendum decision in due course. But unless they do were stuck with it.
Sorry that doesn't wash. Its not a groups of swing voters, its the majority of the population at large.
"77 per cent of people want immigration reduced “a little” or “a lot”, with 56 per cent wanting a large reduction."
A difficult argument because in the 1960s probably 75% of the population believed in hanging murderers. Today as far as I'm aware it's fallen to well below 50%.
Without 'enlightened' people in government, like Roy Jenkins, capital punishment would have lasted several more decades and many innocent people would have been killed including the B'ham pub bombers.
Capital punishment was abolished as a result of a Private Member's Bill introduced by Sydney Silverman.Sir Frank Sockice was actually Home Secretary when the Legislation was making its way through Parliament.
It's not too late for Trump to be replaced as the Republican candidate.
In the 2002 US Senate election in New Jersey, sitting Democratic senator Robert Torricelli dropped out of the race after scandals caused his performance in polls to go through the floor. The Democrats chose Frank Lautenberg as his replacement, but to get him onto the ballots they had to go to the state Supreme Court. They won the case, and 34 days before the election the court allowed new ballots to be printed, carrying Lautenberg's name instead of Torricelli's.
In the 1992 election in New York state to the US House of Representatives, sitting congressmen Theodore Weiss died on 14 September. The Democrats chose Jerrold Nadler as his replacement, and took a "vote Weiss to elect Nadler" approach, which was successful.
If Trump dies then that'll work.
Could you find any cases where the candidate dropped out rather than dying (like your first case) but was still on the ballot (like your second), and the process transferred seamlessly away from the candidate who had technically won?
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere. In other words socially liberal.
Your stereotyping of age groups I find deeply unsettling. Stereotyping has long been seen as a very unhealthy trait and is relation to most demographic factors is socially unacceptable in this day and age if not downright illegal. It is also stupid.
We see on this board every day that there is a mix of attitudes amongst those richer in years towards the EU and just about every other political topic. As for the youngsters, well my son spent most of his summer holiday with an inter-rail ticket travelling around Europe but he and all the students he shared a house with last year were ardently for leaving the EU.
Please can we avoid lazy stereotypes and other prejudices.
On both sides there were exceptions, but Leavers were older, less skilled, more provincial than those voting Remain (in England and Wales). It was the old folk wot won it.
chortle
you make the Leavers sound like a minority.
They may well be, but are certainly in majority in voting, hence our gerontocracy.
or it could just be that oldies out number the under 40s anyway
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
Would you be happy with a levelling down of incomes in the SE to get a more even distribution of income?
GDP growing faster than the EZ is a pretty poor indicator. We already do that.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
Have you seen Charles Moore's article in today's Telegraph, Mr. Brooke?
He seems rather concerned that Mrs. May does want to tell businesses how they should be run and will pass laws to make them do it. Well worth a read.
Also from the same paper is an article by an eminent oncologist that points to one of the possible benefits of leaving the iron hand of EU regulation. Again well worth a read, and I should be very interested to hear @FoxinSox's views on it.
Drug trials in oncology are almost all multinational nowadays, and in order to get a product licence in the major markets (USA and EU) will have to meet the critera for those countries.
There certainly has been a lot more regulation of research over the years, and innovation is often strangled by it. I cannot even send a questionnaire to patients without filling in a 56 page R and D form and Ethics approval form. That is set by our local masters though.
It might be set by your local masters on the face of it but I wouldnt mind betting that the UK legislation that set them on their way was influenced directly or indirectly by the EU or ECHR.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
It's a controversial view, but I think the UK will grow less quickly than the Eurozone in the next decade, even if we do all the right things.
This is not because of Brexit, but because we have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, which is massively dependent on borrowing from foreigners. Ultimately, the UK's savings rate needs to move from 3% (which is an all time low) to around 10%. That's a similar sized adjustment to Spain's during the Eurozone crisis. (Indeed, the UK's economy today looks eerily like Spain's in 2007.)
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat' Officers are dealing with a suspected bomb attack plot, police have said Armed police are scaling a block of flats and have set up barricades
There was also the story yesterday of the guy who bumped into the ISIS mob who tortured him in Syria....while in GERMANY...he has since identified 30 ISIS members there.
My main problem with certain remainers is the conviction leading them away from even questioning the means, the method or the mood music.
Happy to give away the keys to the shop in order to afford a few more Lattes every week and keep power away from those people who don't agree.
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
That will be the same Mrs Thatcher who's government subsidised the coal industry and who left office with manufacturing output at a then all time:
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
yes all of that but Thatcher! Thatcher!
Still deeply contaminating the Tory party in the North and in South Wales. Whether Mrs May can con them now will be interesting, but I think not. They are not idiots.
The Tories have never been popular in the Valleys. But, the rest of Wales is undergoing a long term shift to them.
Slightly more shocking that a candidate for a 'major' party is barely able to write coherent English.
He has got a point though.
That Trump's behaviour is excused and explained by "filthy Hollywood culture"? I think your definition of "a point" needs looking at.
No it is not saying that. It is saying that the left has brought about the situation where such behaviour is increasingly widespread.
Letter Lord Byron to John Hobhouse, 1818
[the singer Arpalice Taruscelli] "is a piece to perish in...I have fucked her twice a day for the last six..."
Hollywood to blame?
The rich and powerful have always behaved like that if they can get away with it. The left and hollywood have torn down the restraints on such behaviour with tragic results.
As Norman Tebbit responded when asked about the drunken fighting and sexual debauchery that characterises our town centres:
I see people behaving like the rich but without the resources to deal with the fallout from it.
It is starting to look as though that by voting LEAVE the less educated masses have made the more intelligent economic and social decision than the so called sophisticated urban intelligentsia who voted REMAIN.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
Would you be happy with a levelling down of incomes in the SE to get a more even distribution of income?
GDP growing faster than the EZ is a pretty poor indicator. We already do that.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-effsure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position whoke them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government.
Would you be happy with a levelling down of incomes in the SE to get a more even distribution of income?
GDP growing faster than the EZ is a pretty poor indicator. We already do that.
I.d rather the other areas caught up the SE
and since you and your Remainer colleagues have said growth will come to a stop on Brexit then have you now changed your mind ?
I don't think that I ever predicted that growth would stop on Brexit, but if you can find an example of that in my near 15 000 posts then I am happy to correct it.
I never predicted economic apocalypse with Brexit, just a slow slide into isolationism and protectionism.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges 2m2 minutes ago Genuine question. If Trump (or more likely Pence) pulled out now, what would happen? Voting has already started.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
It's a controversial view, but I think the UK will grow less quickly than the Eurozone in the next decade, even if we do all the right things.
This is not because of Brexit, but because we have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, which is massively dependent on borrowing from foreigners. Ultimately, the UK's savings rate needs to move from 3% (which is an all time low) to around 10%. That's a similar sized adjustment to Spain's during the Eurozone crisis. (Indeed, the UK's economy today looks eerily like Spain's in 2007.)
I dont actually disagree with that
the UK has a massive adjustment to make and has been putting it off for 20 years. That's why growing faster then the EZ would be an achievement.
On the other hand we contol our own currency and have basically underinvested for decades so we have at least some pointers on where we can go.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges 2m2 minutes ago Genuine question. If Trump (or more likely Pence) pulled out now, what would happen? Voting has already started.
Try and stop Hillary from getting 270 with Pence in rust belt. Send it to Republican congress and install Trump. Is the idea, but it's all very unlikely.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
It's a controversial view, but I think the UK will grow less quickly than the Eurozone in the next decade, even if we do all the right things.
This is not because of Brexit, but because we have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, which is massively dependent on borrowing from foreigners. Ultimately, the UK's savings rate needs to move from 3% (which is an all time low) to around 10%. That's a similar sized adjustment to Spain's during the Eurozone crisis. (Indeed, the UK's economy today looks eerily like Spain's in 2007.)
I think base effects will help the Eurozone as well, there is so much spare capacity in Southern Europe.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
It's a controversial view, but I think the UK will grow less quickly than the Eurozone in the next decade, even if we do all the right things.
This is not because of Brexit, but because we have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, which is massively dependent on borrowing from foreigners. Ultimately, the UK's savings rate needs to move from 3% (which is an all time low) to around 10%. That's a similar sized adjustment to Spain's during the Eurozone crisis. (Indeed, the UK's economy today looks eerily like Spain's in 2007.)
I dont actually disagree with that
the UK has a massive adjustment to make and has been putting it off for 20 years. That's why growing faster then the EZ would be an achievement.
On the other hand we contol our own currency and have basically underinvested for decades so we have at least some pointers on where we can go.
Yes, Gross Capital Formation needs to move from 17% of GDP to 21-22%, funded by an increased savings rate.
The trick is to do it in a non painful way. I'm not confident we'll achieve it.
Worse, it is likely that Brexit will be blamed, because of the Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy.
Slightly more shocking that a candidate for a 'major' party is barely able to write coherent English.
He has got a point though.
That Trump's behaviour is excused and explained by "filthy Hollywood culture"? I think your definition of "a point" needs looking at.
No it is not saying that. It is saying that the left has brought about the situation where such behaviour is increasingly widespread.
Letter Lord Byron to John Hobhouse, 1818
[the singer Arpalice Taruscelli] "is a piece to perish in...I have fucked her twice a day for the last six..."
Hollywood to blame?
The rich and powerful have always behaved like that if they can get away with it. The left and hollywood have torn down the restraints on such behaviour with tragic results.
As Norman Tebbit responded when asked about the drunken fighting and sexual debauchery that characterises our town centres:
I see people behaving like the rich but without the resources to deal with the fallout from it.
And God has told you to put in the hours thinking about what poor people do with their genitalia?
Sigh. I see we are back to hard line remoaners baiting everybody with circular Brexit arguments - a subject we cant even bet on at the moment I suspect.
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for our Brexit decision.
To go back to the header, it is a Gerontocracy. Not so much of our leaders as our voters, both here and in the USA.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere. In other words socially liberal.
Your stereotyping of age groups I find deeply unsettling. Stereotyping has long been seen as a very unhealthy trait and is relation to most demographic factors is socially unacceptable in this day and age if not downright illegal. It is also stupid.
We see on this board every day that there is a mix of attitudes amongst those richer in years towards the EU and just about every other political topic. As for the youngsters, well my son spent most of his summer holiday with an inter-rail ticket travelling around Europe but he and all the students he shared a house with last year were ardently for leaving the EU.
Please can we avoid lazy stereotypes and other prejudices.
On both sides there were exceptions, but Leavers were older, less skilled, more provincial than those voting Remain (in England and Wales). It was the old folk wot won it.
Lots of people won it for Leave. Most people aged 42 and over voted Leave. Forty somethings are people who've grown up in a multiracial society, and travelled abroad. 42% of graduates voted Leave, along with 43% of middle class voters. What's more, many Remain voters were eurosceptics, who shared many of the concerns of Leave voters.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
It's a controversial view, but I think the UK will grow less quickly than the Eurozone in the next decade, even if we do all the right things.
This is not because of Brexit, but because we have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, which is massively dependent on borrowing from foreigners. Ultimately, the UK's savings rate needs to move from 3% (which is an all time low) to around 10%. That's a similar sized adjustment to Spain's during the Eurozone crisis. (Indeed, the UK's economy today looks eerily like Spain's in 2007.)
I dont actually disagree with that
the UK has a massive adjustment to make and has been putting it off for 20 years. That's why growing faster then the EZ would be an achievement.
On the other hand we contol our own currency and have basically underinvested for decades so we have at least some pointers on where we can go.
Yes, Gross Capital Formation needs to move from 17% of GDP to 21-22%, funded by an increased savings rate.
The trick is to do it in a non painful way. I'm not confident we'll achieve it.
Worse, it is likely that Brexit will be blamed, because of the Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy.
there will be pain whatever happens. More likely events will come to the rescue and the politics will blame the pain on unforeseen factors.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
well it goes back to the position who is she protecting them from ?
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
So you are not willing to set some criteria as to improving the lot of distressed areas?
well I dont actually run the government. But if youre asking me what do I think progress would look like it would be
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone - a more even distribution of income across the UK - higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
It's a controversial view, but I think the UK will grow less quickly than the Eurozone in the next decade, even if we do all the right things.
This is not because of Brexit, but because we have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, which is massively dependent on borrowing from foreigners. Ultimately, the UK's savings rate needs to move from 3% (which is an all time low) to around 10%. That's a similar sized adjustment to Spain's during the Eurozone crisis. (Indeed, the UK's economy today looks eerily like Spain's in 2007.)
I dont actually disagree with that
the UK has a massive adjustment to make and has been putting it off for 20 years. That's why growing faster then the EZ would be an achievement.
On the other hand we contol our own currency and have basically underinvested for decades so we have at least some pointers on where we can go.
Yes, Gross Capital Formation needs to move from 17% of GDP to 21-22%, funded by an increased savings rate.
The trick is to do it in a non painful way. I'm not confident we'll achieve it.
Worse, it is likely that Brexit will be blamed, because of the Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy.
I think that's likely, our economy is in quire poor shape if one takes the time to look behind the curtains.
Daily News How can any black or Muslim voter still support Hillary after this bigotry and racism? #PodestaEmails #TrumpTapes #WikiLeaks https://t.co/jt3XXoBs4I
Are you a fucking joke? You do know we can actually look this shit up.
I see that Gove is trying to mend fences with the core posh boy group. Taking the blame for Dave and Boris' downfalls. Last week Dave and Boris made nice, this week it looks like Gove is doing the same with the rest of the group. Something is brewing on the back benches.
'Britain's view of its history 'dangerous', says former museum director
“In Britain we use our history in order to comfort us to make us feel stronger, to remind ourselves that we were always, always deep down, good people,” he said. “Maybe we mention a little bit of slave trade here and there, a few wars here and there, but the chapters we insist on are the sunny ones,” he said. MacGregor warned: “This sort of handling of history is dangerous as well as regrettable”.'
Mr. Max, if they launch a coup and try to stop our departure it'll destroy the party. If they launch a coup and are seen as softer than May there'll be a backbench challenge. If they launch a coup and fail it'll damage the party significantly.
Surely the timing is to exert pressure to improve (as they see it) any deal, then axe May once the deal is done, and she's taken the heat for it.
I see that Gove is trying to mend fences with the core posh boy group. Taking the blame for Dave and Boris' downfalls. Last week Dave and Boris made nice, this week it looks like Gove is doing the same with the rest of the group. Something is brewing on the back benches.
Thought it was a dismal intv from Anne Trenneman - waffly, unstructured, failed gotchas and sneerily unfunny.
I haven't rated her for years and this was more of the same. I learned nothing.
In two days' time, we will be able to say that no-one aged under 60 has ever voted in a British general election in which the Sun newspaper hasn't backed the winning side.
'[T]his is a personal humiliation for [Trump]. In the long-term, it could wreck the conservative movement. The US Right is supposed to be big on morality. Compromise with Trump leaves it looking hypocritical and debased.'
The way the British and American Right have pandered to Trump's every excess has been toe curling to behold. I'm starting to believe the old Marxist critique that they don't actually believe this morality stuff - it was only ever a useful tool for keeping the little people in check.
'Britain's view of its history 'dangerous', says former museum director
“In Britain we use our history in order to comfort us to make us feel stronger, to remind ourselves that we were always, always deep down, good people,” he said. “Maybe we mention a little bit of slave trade here and there, a few wars here and there, but the chapters we insist on are the sunny ones,” he said. MacGregor warned: “This sort of handling of history is dangerous as well as regrettable”.'
Trump campaign says the UK will be offered a trade deal before the EU. As the US is the nation to which the UK exports the most this confirms Brexiteers should be rooting for a Trump win. Hillary would of course do a trade deal with the EU before the UK
Dan DiMicco said 'Britain was "a friend" of America and was leaving the EU for the right reasons.... Mr DiMicco said with the present Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) proposals "on hold", Britain would be at the front of the queue for any future trade deal once the UK has left the EU. His comments contrast with those of outgoing President Barack Obama, who - speaking before the UK's EU referendum in June - said Britain would go to the "back of the queue" for trade deals with the US if it left the EU. When asked if the US would do a deal with Britain ahead of the EU, Mr DiMicco told me: "Absolutely. "First off they are our friends, they have always supported us, and we've worked together, and they are leaving the EU in our estimation for the right reasons. "They have lost control of their economy, the job creation engine, so why shouldn't we be working with like-minded people before we do a deal with anybody else?"'
Comments
I'd make it Attlee.....and nearly three quarters of a century.....
Boring
No one likes us we dont care.
The video below is a metaphor for what the people of Britain did on June 23rd.
https://youtu.be/lrShn8PeTz8
Concerns about the nature of their communities changing, without ever being asked their views. The absence of democratic input. Further, without any admission this change was going to happen (despite it being very clear that the Labour Govt. 1997/2010 was determined to change the nature of these communities - possibly for some high falutin' notion of multiculturalism being the right thing to do, possibly for some base political advantage). And to be fair, the Coalition and then the Cameron Tory majority Govt. carried on as before, their Budget assumptions requiring large scale migration to keep the economy growing.
So schools got overcrowded, housing spiralled in cost (both owned and rented) and the NHS creaked at the seams. Just-about-at-breaking-point has become the default budget setting for normal in our public services. All this happened whilst Labour refused to acknowledge the scale of the financial claims this increased population would make on the Exchequer. The Tories at least made pledges on increasing NHS spending that Labour wouldn't make. But education and housing are still deeply problematic.
Theresa May is now cast as the SOMEBODY who has to listen. Her first Conference suggests she has. Her second and especially her third, when the Brexit negotiations will be largely formed, will tell us much more.
Daily News
How can any black or Muslim voter still support Hillary after this bigotry and racism? #PodestaEmails #TrumpTapes #WikiLeaks https://t.co/jt3XXoBs4I
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/output/timeseries/k22a/diop
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
May needs Hammond because she needs someone to stand up to her - being of fairly similar temperaments I suspect they get on well - have a fair old ding dong, but remain friends - Boris will forever be seen through the eyes of a plotting successor....
Carney is the face of 'continuity' and if he erred on the side of excess caution in the aftermath of the vote I'm sure it will be sorted out shortly.....
"On or about December 12th, 1992, at a subsequent business/dinner meeting at the Plaza Hotel, to discuss the newly-formed venture between American Dream Festival, the defendant Trump repeatedly put his hands on plaintiff's thighs and violated plaintiff's 'physical and mental integrity' by attempting to touch plaintiff's intimate private parts in violation of plaintiff's fundamental constitutional right to privacy and physical autonomy as a citizen of the United States."
She also describes a scene in which Trump took her into one of his children’s bedrooms at Mar-a-Lago, threw her against the wall, began touching her all over, and lifted up her dress. That was when her partner was in the next room.
It is the older whiter babyboomers who are the Trumpsters, and here the Leavers. The youngsters are the "metropolitan elite" that they rail against. Better educated, more urban, comfortable living alongside people from other countries, and as likely to go for a stag weekend in Prague as anywhere. In other words socially liberal.
you forgot self-righteous boring prats who havent actually done anything much with their youth.
Oh, and is this one real or fake?
The Camerooons are still fragile - you should have given them a safe space warning.....
It's not really about lattes, honestly. A lot of us who voted Remain did so out of a conviction that those who would be most adversely affected by leaving the EU would be the ones who have already been most adversely affected by the forces of globalisation. And in leaving what extra power do they have? The government will still be formed by the party best able to put together a coalition of 35% of the voters, and those who control all the levers of the state are not going to change either.
The Tories as protectors of the White Working Class?
It does rather stretch belief when our current gerontocratic PM and Chancellor have such a Damscene conversion after decades of being willing tools of Tory PMs who have a poor track record of interest.
Which Tory PMs would they be then? Just Cameron with his neoliberalist Osbornite chumocracy. I get the feeling May and Hammond bridled under that. A lot. But they have the last laugh as Cameron exited stage left, followed by the spectre of a bear of his own creation....
Mrs Thatcher is the obvious one, who brought in the Single Market, and smashed the traditional industries of the country, whether the Coal of Wales, the steel of the North East or the rag trade of Leicester.
That will be the same Mrs Thatcher who's government subsidised the coal industry and who left office with manufacturing output at a then all time:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/output/timeseries/k22a/diop
Now certainly some industries and some areas did struggle during Thatcher's government but that has always been the case - the UK coal industry had peak employment in 1914 and shipbuilding and textiles were in steep decline from the 1960s onwards.
But the 1980s and 1990s did have the opportunity for self-advancement for the average person that we haven't had during the last 15 years - home ownership is a good indicator of this.
Nor did the 1980s and 1990s have the gaping chasm between the average person and the 1% that exists now.
yes all of that but Thatcher! Thatcher!
Still deeply contaminating the Tory party in the North and in South Wales. Whether Mrs May can con them now will be interesting, but I think not. They are not idiots.
If she follows her conference vision, and she will, she will become extremely popular - so how can it be described as a 'con'
#BREAKING Morocco's ruling Islamists win parliamentary elections
Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz
Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat'
They have tweeted to say they would not speculate on circling rumours
Speculation they elude to is people have been taken hostage by gunman
Overall 81.8% chance of being elected.
We see on this board every day that there is a mix of attitudes amongst those richer in years towards the EU and just about every other political topic. As for the youngsters, well my son spent most of his summer holiday with an inter-rail ticket travelling around Europe but he and all the students he shared a house with last year were ardently for leaving the EU.
Please can we avoid lazy stereotypes and other prejudices.
OK. By what measures do you expect the WWC to be in a better position in Wales and the North at the end of Mrs May's premiership?
A better Gini co-efficient?
Increased employment?
Increased participation in higher education?
Re-establishment of manufacturing industry?
Or some other measure?
Set the parameters and we will see.
And its the industrial areas of the North and Wales (and Midlands) which have swung rightwards during the last decade - Gower and Morley and Telford and Sherwood being examples.
It is the urban middle classes where the Conservatives have gone backwards.
What May is now doing, by accident or design, is swimming with that tide. Whereas the Cameroons were swimming against it.
The losses while significant were not so huge in the scheme of things that closure couldnt have been spread out over a longer period.
Same as with the railways in the sixties. While there were plenty of basket case lines, the governments remit to make the railways pay virtually overnight meant a lot of marginal lines which would be viable now and are badly needed went.
Firstly, the trends you identify have happened almost everywhere in the world, from countries with minimal immigration, and who have resisted globalisation (Japan), to the US and the UK.
Those who have avoided it have been those blessed with massive mineral wealth at a time when commodity prices were booming (Australian and Canada), and those whose education systems did the best job of training the next 75% (Germany and Switzerland).
Secondly, the 80s and 90s might have seen the well being of many improve, but it came on the back of a big drawdawn of the wealth of the UK. In the early 1980s, the UK was in credit with the rest of the world to the tune of about 60 to 70% of GDP. So, every year, money from overseas assets flowed into the UK economy. The massive explosion in consumer debt and the decline of the savings rate meant that we've gone from being in credit to the rest of the world, to being severely in debt. And our big current account deficit (close to 7% of GDP in the first half of the year) means this gets worse every year. To close this gap is going to require genuine austerity at some point.
Thatcher closed all the factories you know.
* A salutary reminder that devaluing the currency is in the hands of the market, not the government.
https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/784560940587048960
Slightly more shocking that a candidate for a 'major' party is barely able to write coherent English.
Mostly it's the upper middle classes who are happy lining their own pockets and ignoring the impact on everyone else and the interfering " liberal classes " who seem to want to tell everyone else what to do and pass laws to make them do it.
you make the Leavers sound like a minority.
- GDP grows faster than the Eurozone
- a more even distribution of income across the UK
- higher home ownership through more affordable homes
That's already enough for 10 years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/07/we-voted-brexit-to-get-greater-freedom-not-to-have-yet-more-gove/
He seems rather concerned that Mrs. May does want to tell businesses how they should be run and will pass laws to make them do it. Well worth a read.
Also from the same paper is an article by an eminent oncologist that points to one of the possible benefits of leaving the iron hand of EU regulation. Again well worth a read, and I should be very interested to hear @FoxinSox's views on it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/07/brexit-means-we-can-revive-clinical-trials-killed-by-the-eu/
In the 2002 US Senate election in New Jersey, sitting Democratic senator Robert Torricelli dropped out of the race after scandals caused his performance in polls to go through the floor. The Democrats chose Frank Lautenberg as his replacement, but to get him onto the ballots they had to go to the state Supreme Court. They won the case, and 34 days before the election the court allowed new ballots to be printed, carrying Lautenberg's name instead of Torricelli's.
In the 1992 election in New York state to the US House of Representatives, sitting congressmen Theodore Weiss died on 14 September. The Democrats chose Jerrold Nadler as his replacement, and took a "vote Weiss to elect Nadler" approach, which was successful.
The eventual outcome of capitailsm is oligolpoly\monopoly which clealy isnt in the voters interest. Currently we see this though corporatism. Their tax affairs are a good example of what happens if you let them do what they want. Occasionally the pieces just all need to be broken up.
There certainly has been a lot more regulation of research over the years, and innovation is often strangled by it. I cannot even send a questionnaire to patients without filling in a 56 page R and D form and Ethics approval form. That is set by our local masters though.
BREAKING NEWS: German town on lockdown as armed police hunt man suspected of planning a bomb attack
Heavily-armed officers are surrounding a home in the town of Chemnitz
Police force - Polizei Sachsen - said they are dealing with a 'static threat'
Officers are dealing with a suspected bomb attack plot, police have said
Armed police are scaling a block of flats and have set up barricades
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3828333/German-town-lockdown-residents-ordered-stay-indoors-armed-police-surround-blocks-flats-amid-reports-threat.html#ixzz4MUdBIF1r
Well done Merkel, way to go.....
GDP growing faster than the EZ is a pretty poor indicator. We already do that.
Could you find any cases where the candidate dropped out rather than dying (like your first case) but was still on the ballot (like your second), and the process transferred seamlessly away from the candidate who had technically won?
and since you and your Remainer colleagues have said growth will come to a stop on Brexit then have you now changed your mind ?
And good afternoon, everybody.
This is not because of Brexit, but because we have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, which is massively dependent on borrowing from foreigners. Ultimately, the UK's savings rate needs to move from 3% (which is an all time low) to around 10%. That's a similar sized adjustment to Spain's during the Eurozone crisis. (Indeed, the UK's economy today looks eerily like Spain's in 2007.)
[the singer Arpalice Taruscelli] "is a piece to perish in...I have fucked her twice a day for the last six..."
Hollywood to blame?
And much of the North is solidly Conservative.
As Norman Tebbit responded when asked about the drunken fighting and sexual debauchery that characterises our town centres:
I see people behaving like the rich but without the resources to deal with the fallout from it.
Discuss.
I never predicted economic apocalypse with Brexit, just a slow slide into isolationism and protectionism.
Genuine question. If Trump (or more likely Pence) pulled out now, what would happen? Voting has already started.
Click to see full details.
the UK has a massive adjustment to make and has been putting it off for 20 years. That's why growing faster then the EZ would be an achievement.
On the other hand we contol our own currency and have basically underinvested for decades so we have at least some pointers on where we can go.
The trick is to do it in a non painful way. I'm not confident we'll achieve it.
Worse, it is likely that Brexit will be blamed, because of the Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/donald-trump-sexism-tracker-every-offensive-comment-in-one-place/
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1637
I mean, it's slightly better than posing entirely fictional made up shit but only by half a step.
'Britain's view of its history 'dangerous', says former museum director
“In Britain we use our history in order to comfort us to make us feel stronger, to remind ourselves that we were always, always deep down, good people,” he said. “Maybe we mention a little bit of slave trade here and there, a few wars here and there, but the chapters we insist on are the sunny ones,” he said.
MacGregor warned: “This sort of handling of history is dangerous as well as regrettable”.'
http://tinyurl.com/jlxwrvp
Surely the timing is to exert pressure to improve (as they see it) any deal, then axe May once the deal is done, and she's taken the heat for it.
I haven't rated her for years and this was more of the same. I learned nothing.
'[T]his is a personal humiliation for [Trump]. In the long-term, it could wreck the conservative movement. The US Right is supposed to be big on morality. Compromise with Trump leaves it looking hypocritical and debased.'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/08/donald-trump-has-self-immolated--and-hell-take-the-entire-conser/
The way the British and American Right have pandered to Trump's every excess has been toe curling to behold. I'm starting to believe the old Marxist critique that they don't actually believe this morality stuff - it was only ever a useful tool for keeping the little people in check.
Dan DiMicco said 'Britain was "a friend" of America and was leaving the EU for the right reasons.... Mr DiMicco said with the present Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) proposals "on hold", Britain would be at the front of the queue for any future trade deal once the UK has left the EU.
His comments contrast with those of outgoing President Barack Obama, who - speaking before the UK's EU referendum in June - said Britain would go to the "back of the queue" for trade deals with the US if it left the EU.
When asked if the US would do a deal with Britain ahead of the EU, Mr DiMicco told me: "Absolutely.
"First off they are our friends, they have always supported us, and we've worked together, and they are leaving the EU in our estimation for the right reasons.
"They have lost control of their economy, the job creation engine, so why shouldn't we be working with like-minded people before we do a deal with anybody else?"'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37594928