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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    DavidL said:

    Horrible video for Hillary.

    Lets take this one step at a time. This woman has a poor health record even for someone of her age. Many of these problems, such as the clots, have affected her brain. She claims to have had serious memory lapses whilst at State. She has frankly shown herself to be delusional at times (eg the Kosovo under fire landing). She avoids public challenge through press interviews. She looks terrible. She has now been seen collapsing twice.

    She is clearly absolutely desperate to be the first woman President. She is willing to risk her life to achieve this. She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President. It is on even a simple analysis an unbelievably selfish and self-indulgent position. She is, literally, not fit to be President.

    Reagan had Alzheimer's, JFK and FDR serious health issues (causing the latter to die in office). Apart from Nixon she is probably the most qualified person to run for president in the last half century but like him she comes with wardrobes full of skeletons and baggage
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    DavidL said:

    Horrible video for Hillary.

    Lets take this one step at a time. This woman has a poor health record even for someone of her age. Many of these problems, such as the clots, have affected her brain. She claims to have had serious memory lapses whilst at State. She has frankly shown herself to be delusional at times (eg the Kosovo under fire landing). She avoids public challenge through press interviews. She looks terrible. She has now been seen collapsing twice.

    She is clearly absolutely desperate to be the first woman President. She is willing to risk her life to achieve this. She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President. It is on even a simple analysis an unbelievably selfish and self-indulgent position. She is, literally, not fit to be President.

    Being caught with an ear bud piece said it all - if it is how it looked, she was being coached remotely during the Lauer NBC debate. That's TV evangelist prompting miracle territory.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    It is neither her supporters nor Trump supporters who this incident is important for, it is the undecided who are important
    Most of the undecideds are crying out for a "Re-Open Nominations" option on the ballot paper!
    Re-open nominations might beat Hillary, Trump still probably not!
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    I don't know where you are all getting this 'didn't look like heat stroke' line of thinking from. It looks exactly like heatstroke. Heatstroke affects the brain and motor functions.

    Maybe it is, but in the video if you look at her feet she is literally dragged into the van, she appears to be completely out of it. That would scare the hell out of me if that was a relative of mine. The NHS web site says call an ambulance in such circumstances.
    That was clearly an incident where she was out of it, the fact that a shoe came off and was left behind indicates that (as well as panic amongst her security people). What it means healthwise I am not so sure other than the lady has some serious issues.

    The apparent fast recovery means bugger all. I had a similar episode in my local pub years ago and before the ambulance could get there (called by the landlord) I was back, functioning, had finished my pint and was wondering whether I could get away with having another before the ambulance did turn up. The fact that I recovered quickly from the episode didn't mean that I was actually not well (hypotension caused by the tablets to fix the hypertension caused by kidney failure caused by feck knows, if you really want to know).
    A killer point is that she was driven to her daughter's flat not to a hospital. That must mean that she and her entourage knew exactly what the score was and had the resources to manage it without immediate medical advice and assistance. So it was a long standing condition. Not heat stroke.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited September 2016
    DavidL said:

    She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President. It is on even a simple analysis an unbelievably selfish and self-indulgent position.

    For "simple analysis", read "simple-minded analysis". "She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President". What does that mean other than that she is the Democratic nominee, running against the Republican nominee? Her campaign hasn't been especially negative.

  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,565

    The apparent fast recovery means bugger all. I had a similar episode in my local pub years ago and before the ambulance could get there (called by the landlord) I was back, functioning, had finished my pint and was wondering whether I could get away with having another before the ambulance did turn up. The fact that I recovered quickly from the episode didn't mean that I was actually not well (hypotension caused by the tablets to fix the hypertension caused by kidney failure caused by feck knows, if you really want to know).

    Yeah the fact someone is up and walking around a while later means very little.

    I'm sure Hilary Clinton has excellent healthcare so I don't suppose she would be back out on the street within hours unless she was well enough to do so, but it will be a lot harder to dismiss the charges made by the Trump campaign after today.
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Ishmael_X said:

    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    I don't know where you are all getting this 'didn't look like heat stroke' line of thinking from. It looks exactly like heatstroke. Heatstroke affects the brain and motor functions.

    Maybe it is, but in the video if you look at her feet she is literally dragged into the van, she appears to be completely out of it. That would scare the hell out of me if that was a relative of mine. The NHS web site says call an ambulance in such circumstances.
    That was clearly an incident where she was out of it, the fact that a shoe came off and was left behind indicates that (as well as panic amongst her security people). What it means healthwise I am not so sure other than the lady has some serious issues.

    The apparent fast recovery means bugger all. I had a similar episode in my local pub years ago and before the ambulance could get there (called by the landlord) I was back, functioning, had finished my pint and was wondering whether I could get away with having another before the ambulance did turn up. The fact that I recovered quickly from the episode didn't mean that I was actually not well (hypotension caused by the tablets to fix the hypertension caused by kidney failure caused by feck knows, if you really want to know).
    A killer point is that she was driven to her daughter's flat not to a hospital. That must mean that she and her entourage knew exactly what the score was and had the resources to manage it without immediate medical advice and assistance. So it was a long standing condition. Not heat stroke.
    Which is one reason I suggest something like epilepsy.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,187
    DavidL said:

    She has frankly shown herself to be delusional at times (eg the Kosovo under fire landing).

    There's a difference between delusion and lying. The latter is perfectly normal where politicians are concerned.
  • Options
    Ishmael_X said:

    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    I don't know where you are all getting this 'didn't look like heat stroke' line of thinking from. It looks exactly like heatstroke. Heatstroke affects the brain and motor functions.

    Maybe it is, but in the video if you look at her feet she is literally dragged into the van, she appears to be completely out of it. That would scare the hell out of me if that was a relative of mine. The NHS web site says call an ambulance in such circumstances.
    That was clearly an incident where she was out of it, the fact that a shoe came off and was left behind indicates that (as well as panic amongst her security people). What it means healthwise I am not so sure other than the lady has some serious issues.

    The apparent fast recovery means bugger all. I had a similar episode in my local pub years ago and before the ambulance could get there (called by the landlord) I was back, functioning, had finished my pint and was wondering whether I could get away with having another before the ambulance did turn up. The fact that I recovered quickly from the episode didn't mean that I was actually not well (hypotension caused by the tablets to fix the hypertension caused by kidney failure caused by feck knows, if you really want to know).
    A killer point is that she was driven to her daughter's flat not to a hospital. That must mean that she and her entourage knew exactly what the score was and had the resources to manage it without immediate medical advice and assistance. So it was a long standing condition. Not heat stroke.
    She has constant medical advice and assistance. One of her 'security' guys is a doctor specialising in neurological conditions.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,228
    Essexit said:

    What are the Clinton team going to do about the debates? Dose her up with adrenaline beforehand? Insist on a sit-down format? Find an excuse to cancel altogether? If she takes a tumble like that on live TV with undecided voters watching keenly, surely she's toast.

    There's a snowball's chance in Hell that Trump is going to make any accommodations for Hillary in the debates.

    Given the chance, he'll have them turn up the heating in the hall and have techno music blasting out during the commercial breaks.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    She has frankly shown herself to be delusional at times (eg the Kosovo under fire landing).

    There's a difference between delusion and lying. The latter is perfectly normal where politicians are concerned.
    It's delusional for one of the most photographed and filmed people in the world to lie about something that can be so easily verified
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Just out of interest we have been here or hereish before; in 1972 McGovern's running mate Thomas Eagleton withdrew on health grounds (history of severe depression) after nomination.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    PlatoSaid said:

    DavidL said:

    Horrible video for Hillary.

    Lets take this one step at a time. This woman has a poor health record even for someone of her age. Many of these problems, such as the clots, have affected her brain. She claims to have had serious memory lapses whilst at State. She has frankly shown herself to be delusional at times (eg the Kosovo under fire landing). She avoids public challenge through press interviews. She looks terrible. She has now been seen collapsing twice.

    She is clearly absolutely desperate to be the first woman President. She is willing to risk her life to achieve this. She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President. It is on even a simple analysis an unbelievably selfish and self-indulgent position. She is, literally, not fit to be President.

    Being caught with an ear bud piece said it all - if it is how it looked, she was being coached remotely during the Lauer NBC debate. That's TV evangelist prompting miracle territory.
    Quite so, Miss P., I have wonder whether the woman is physically or mentally fit to run a bath.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Horrible video for Hillary.

    Lets take this one step at a time. This woman has a poor health record even for someone of her age. Many of these problems, such as the clots, have affected her brain. She claims to have had serious memory lapses whilst at State. She has frankly shown herself to be delusional at times (eg the Kosovo under fire landing). She avoids public challenge through press interviews. She looks terrible. She has now been seen collapsing twice.

    She is clearly absolutely desperate to be the first woman President. She is willing to risk her life to achieve this. She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President. It is on even a simple analysis an unbelievably selfish and self-indulgent position. She is, literally, not fit to be President.

    Reagan had Alzheimer's, JFK and FDR serious health issues (causing the latter to die in office). Apart from Nixon she is probably the most qualified person to run for president in the last half century but like him she comes with wardrobes full of skeletons and baggage
    All that Trump needs to do to win is reassure the public that he can do the job of President as the public expects from Presidents.

    It doesn't matter if Hillary is a geriatric Nixon or not, the public right now would vote for the first person who can reassure them that they can do the job with basic competence, something that neither Hillary nor Trump have done yet.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    Probably but there is no constitutional bar to it
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited September 2016
    Ishmael_X said:

    A killer point is that she was driven to her daughter's flat not to a hospital. That must mean that she and her entourage knew exactly what the score was and had the resources to manage it without immediate medical advice and assistance. So it was a long standing condition. Not heat stroke.

    In any "health episode" serious enough for her to be evacuated from a function, she'll go wherever her Secret Service protection tell her to go. No buts. It is part of their training to take a principal to a hospital emergency department if required. I would have thought that her and Trump's entourages include medics. Agreed, the course of events does suggest there weren't any big unknowns.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Horrible video for Hillary.

    Lets take this one step at a time. This woman has a poor health record even for someone of her age. Many of these problems, such as the clots, have affected her brain. She claims to have had serious memory lapses whilst at State. She has frankly shown herself to be delusional at times (eg the Kosovo under fire landing). She avoids public challenge through press interviews. She looks terrible. She has now been seen collapsing twice.

    She is clearly absolutely desperate to be the first woman President. She is willing to risk her life to achieve this. She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President. It is on even a simple analysis an unbelievably selfish and self-indulgent position. She is, literally, not fit to be President.

    Reagan had Alzheimer's, JFK and FDR serious health issues (causing the latter to die in office). Apart from Nixon she is probably the most qualified person to run for president in the last half century but like him she comes with wardrobes full of skeletons and baggage
    All that Trump needs to do to win is reassure the public that he can do the job of President as the public expects from Presidents.

    It doesn't matter if Hillary is a geriatric Nixon or not, the public right now would vote for the first person who can reassure them that they can do the job with basic competence, something that neither Hillary nor Trump have done yet.

    The choice is between someone who might faint or even die in office or perhaps be impeached for corruption or someone who might start World War 3, that is what it now boils down to!
  • Options
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    You would think so. To my mind, you want a presidential candidate who has some real experience and is still young enough to survive in the era of a febrile 24 hour media scrum.

    But we don't get to make the choice
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    edited September 2016
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    Trump is as old as Hillary
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
    If Hillary wins by less than 1% I think the election might come down to recounts, and civil war.

    A disputed close victory for one of the most unpopular persons to ever run for president will definitely risk a civil war.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    ?

    If Trump wins and physically/mentally sharp - HRC being ill is irrelevant.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    Trump is as old as Hillary
    But he doesn't cough all the time or fall over
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,187
    Charles said:

    It's delusional for one of the most photographed and filmed people in the world to lie about something that can be so easily verified

    For some reason the words "Brexit" and "NHS" flashed into my head.

    On the whole, I think it's just that politicians are just born liars.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    alex. said:



    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    Yep, the next president always tends to be the antithesis of the last one.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    edited September 2016
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
    If Hillary wins by less than 1% I think the election might come down to recounts, and civil war.

    A disputed close victory for one of the most unpopular persons to ever run for president will definitely risk a civil war.
    We are headed that way and of course Johnson or Stein could play as big a role as Nader in 2000 in a very close race. Nixon won by less than 1% in 1968 (he also lost by less than 1% in 1960)
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    HYUFD said:

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%

    1% of what?

  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    Trump is as old as Hillary
    The context was future democratic nominees, not current Republican ones. You can bet though that even Trump might be required to submit to a more rigorous health check than the picture of health doctor's note he seems to have got away with.

  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
    If Hillary wins by less than 1% I think the election might come down to recounts, and civil war.

    A disputed close victory for one of the most unpopular persons to ever run for president will definitely risk a civil war.
    We are headed that way and of course Johnson or Stein could play as big a role as Nader in 2000 in a very close race.
    In that case the Foreign Office should draw contingency plans for civil war in America.

    First and foremost which side would Britain take if it should take a side, and what would it gain in exchange.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%

    1% of what?

    The popular vote
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,187
    HYUFD said:

    The choice is between someone who might faint or even die in office or perhaps be impeached for corruption or someone who might start World War 3, that is what it now boils down to!

    Perhaps Donald Trump is actually being very clever with all this Putin stuff.

    To anyone worried about World War III, it can only be reassuring that Trump is so far up Putin's ****.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Twitter are so cloth eared here

    "Twitter’s Trending section has not included any phrase regarding Hillary Clinton’s collapse outside New York City’s 9/11 memorial service Sunday morning, despite capturing the attention of reporters across the political spectrum and spawning multiple hashtags.

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/09/11/hillary-health-story-missing-twitter/
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,642
    edited September 2016
    Although I have no insight into the US peoples' mindset, I wouldn't have thought people need much of an excuse not to vote for HRC.

    As they say this shit just got serious and vs the morbid reality of a Clinton-led administration even Trump begins to look like a safe pair of hands.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    So the election saga continues with the Trump campaign now linked to white supremacist slogans, soon the voters will just have to close their eyes and pick one of them!
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Kermit the Frog is now a nationalist symbol ?

    It seems I missed that episode.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    Trump is as old as Hillary
    But he doesn't cough all the time or fall over
    He just shouts whatever comes into his head instead
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    I am supporting Trump (from the UK) on the basis that the republicans are still likely to hold the house and senate and we then won't have deadlock. (And I can't bear the democrats for the simple reason that the bbc suck up to them).

    POTUS is regarded as the most powerful man in the world, but there are plenty of checks and balances.

    The Constitution explicitly assigns to the president the power to sign or veto legislation, command the armed forces, ask for the written opinion of his Cabinet, convene or adjourn Congress, grant reprieves and pardons, and receive ambassadors. (Wikipedia)

    He can also issue executive orders subject to judicial review (Obama's favourite non-golf pastime)
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Sandpit said:

    Essexit said:

    What are the Clinton team going to do about the debates? Dose her up with adrenaline beforehand? Insist on a sit-down format? Find an excuse to cancel altogether? If she takes a tumble like that on live TV with undecided voters watching keenly, surely she's toast.

    There's a snowball's chance in Hell that Trump is going to make any accommodations for Hillary in the debates.

    Given the chance, he'll have them turn up the heating in the hall and have techno music blasting out during the commercial breaks.
    Lol. You're probably right. Which realistically leaves pulling out, thereby giving Trump an excellent attack line on a silver platter.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    Trump is as old as Hillary
    The context was future democratic nominees, not current Republican ones. You can bet though that even Trump might be required to submit to a more rigorous health check than the picture of health doctor's note he seems to have got away with.

    Certainly his health check was done in a matter of minutes
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited September 2016
    HYUFD said:

    Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%

    1% of what?
    The popular vote
    She could get 50.5% of the popular vote and still win by wide margins in all the states she wins, or win a big majority in the electoral college, or both. It's about time the US introduced OPOV!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Chris said:

    Charles said:

    It's delusional for one of the most photographed and filmed people in the world to lie about something that can be so easily verified

    For some reason the words "Brexit" and "NHS" flashed into my head.

    On the whole, I think it's just that politicians are just born liars.
    It's actually pretty rare for them to lie. Disemble, misdirect, answer a different question, etc. - sure. But outright lies are rare, which is why they are noticed.

    If you looked at the official manifesto (not just the slogan) - then I'm fairly sure that the NHS was only presented as something that we "could" do instead of "would" do.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,219
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    79 (as he will be then) is too old to be starting your first term as POTUS - he knows that.
    If Hillary lost in large part due to (age related?) health issues then surely the logical result will be a shift in favour of younger candidates in future?

    Trump is as old as Hillary
    Trump has the better track record of standing up unaided....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    edited September 2016
    Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%

    1% of what?
    The popular vote
    She could get 50.5% of the popular vote and still win by wide margins in all the states she wins, or win a big majority in the electoral college, or both. It's about time the US introduced OPOV!
    Unlikely, close results in the popular vote almost always produce close results in the electoral college, see 2000. Johnson and Stein will also ensure neither she nor Trump get over 50%
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Ishmael_X said:

    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    I don't know where you are all getting this 'didn't look like heat stroke' line of thinking from. It looks exactly like heatstroke. Heatstroke affects the brain and motor functions.

    Maybe it is, but in the video if you look at her feet she is literally dragged into the van, she appears to be completely out of it. That would scare the hell out of me if that was a relative of mine. The NHS web site says call an ambulance in such circumstances.
    That was clearly an incident where she was out of it, the fact that a shoe came off and was left behind indicates that (as well as panic amongst her security people). What it means healthwise I am not so sure other than the lady has some serious issues.

    The apparent fast recovery means bugger all. I had a similar episode in my local pub years ago and before the ambulance could get there (called by the landlord) I was back, functioning, had finished my pint and was wondering whether I could get away with having another before the ambulance did turn up. The fact that I recovered quickly from the episode didn't mean that I was actually not well (hypotension caused by the tablets to fix the hypertension caused by kidney failure caused by feck knows, if you really want to know).
    A killer point is that she was driven to her daughter's flat not to a hospital. That must mean that she and her entourage knew exactly what the score was and had the resources to manage it without immediate medical advice and assistance. So it was a long standing condition. Not heat stroke.
    She has constant medical advice and assistance. One of her 'security' guys is a doctor specialising in neurological conditions.
    All she needs is a food taster as well.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    I've never heard of "Pepe the frog" before. I doubt that very many people have at all.

    If you want politicians to use twitter relatively freely - without professionals running their accounts - then you need to accept that forwarding something doesn't mean endorsing every little detail.

    In this case, it just meant that they were amused by the mock up of the film poster.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    weejonnie said:

    I am supporting Trump (from the UK) on the basis that the republicans are still likely to hold the house and senate and we then won't have deadlock. (And I can't bear the democrats for the simple reason that the bbc suck up to them).

    POTUS is regarded as the most powerful man in the world, but there are plenty of checks and balances.

    The Constitution explicitly assigns to the president the power to sign or veto legislation, command the armed forces, ask for the written opinion of his Cabinet, convene or adjourn Congress, grant reprieves and pardons, and receive ambassadors. (Wikipedia)

    He can also issue executive orders subject to judicial review (Obama's favourite non-golf pastime)

    The president can also launch nuclear missiles
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Charles said:

    Chris said:

    Charles said:

    It's delusional for one of the most photographed and filmed people in the world to lie about something that can be so easily verified

    For some reason the words "Brexit" and "NHS" flashed into my head.

    On the whole, I think it's just that politicians are just born liars.
    It's actually pretty rare for them to lie. Disemble, misdirect, answer a different question, etc. - sure. But outright lies are rare, which is why they are noticed.

    If you looked at the official manifesto (not just the slogan) - then I'm fairly sure that the NHS was only presented as something that we "could" do instead of "would" do.

    Somewhat disingenuous though, as the argument for "could" instead of "would" was that VoteLeave wouldn't be in a position to implement Brexit. The government was always in a position to disavow VoteLeave's "promises". I'm not sure the pressure group of the same people now set up can justify itself so easily.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
    If Hillary wins by less than 1% I think the election might come down to recounts, and civil war.

    A disputed close victory for one of the most unpopular persons to ever run for president will definitely risk a civil war.
    We are headed that way and of course Johnson or Stein could play as big a role as Nader in 2000 in a very close race.
    In that case the Foreign Office should draw contingency plans for civil war in America.

    First and foremost which side would Britain take if it should take a side, and what would it gain in exchange.
    Unlikely though a favourable trade deal post Brexit is a must
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    The choice is between someone who might faint or even die in office or perhaps be impeached for corruption or someone who might start World War 3, that is what it now boils down to!

    Perhaps Donald Trump is actually being very clever with all this Putin stuff.

    To anyone worried about World War III, it can only be reassuring that Trump is so far up Putin's ****.
    Putin would not be the problem, China maybe
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Speedy said:

    Kermit the Frog is now a nationalist symbol ?

    It seems I missed that episode.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog

    It seems very tenuous. After all Katy Perry has tweeted it before, and I doubt she would see herself as far right
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%

    1% of what?
    The popular vote
    She could get 50.5% of the popular vote and still win by wide margins in all the states she wins, or win a big majority in the electoral college, or both. It's about time the US introduced OPOV!
    If Hillary wins by less than a 1% margin of the national popular vote it would look like a 272-266 victory for her.

    A Trump victory would look like a Trump lead of about 2% nationally and him winning 246-276 with Michigan a tie.

    It's possible but the worse possible scenario for the stability of the USA, that Trump wins the popular vote but Hillary wins the E. College, which is possible if Trump leads by 1% or less.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,187
    Charles said:


    If you looked at the official manifesto (not just the slogan) - then I'm fairly sure that the NHS was only presented as something that we "could" do instead of "would" do.

    So some subtlety was lost when they painted it on the side of the bus?

    No, but really, politicians have no compunction about lying as such. It's just that they sometimes underestimate the chances of being found out.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Sandpit said:

    Essexit said:

    What are the Clinton team going to do about the debates? Dose her up with adrenaline beforehand? Insist on a sit-down format? Find an excuse to cancel altogether? If she takes a tumble like that on live TV with undecided voters watching keenly, surely she's toast.

    There's a snowball's chance in Hell that Trump is going to make any accommodations for Hillary in the debates.

    Given the chance, he'll have them turn up the heating in the hall and have techno music blasting out during the commercial breaks.
    :smiley:
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,319
    Biden is now up to 7cents on PredictIt. If you believe that Hillary will run regardless of health, then selling Biden at 7c is value.

    https://www.predictit.org/Market/1234/Who-will-win-the-2016-US-presidential-election
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Latest Betfair mid-prices (they are changing fast):

    Biden 34
    Sanders 36
    Kaine 155

    That's an implied probability of 6% that a Democrat who isn't Clinton wins the election.

    There's also now a two-sided market on Michael Bloomberg.
  • Options
    CBS have a doctor in the studio speculating that Hillary just had a vasovagal syncope, i.e. standard fainting.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Chris said:

    Charles said:

    It's delusional for one of the most photographed and filmed people in the world to lie about something that can be so easily verified

    For some reason the words "Brexit" and "NHS" flashed into my head.

    On the whole, I think it's just that politicians are just born liars.
    It's actually pretty rare for them to lie. Disemble, misdirect, answer a different question, etc. - sure. But outright lies are rare, which is why they are noticed.

    If you looked at the official manifesto (not just the slogan) - then I'm fairly sure that the NHS was only presented as something that we "could" do instead of "would" do.

    Somewhat disingenuous though, as the argument for "could" instead of "would" was that VoteLeave wouldn't be in a position to implement Brexit. The government was always in a position to disavow VoteLeave's "promises". I'm not sure the pressure group of the same people now set up can justify itself so easily.

    I think, though, that (at least initially) they also suggested alternative ways to spend the money. The NHS presumably market tested the best so they emphasised that.

    In any event "Let's spend it on the NHS instead" is phrased as a suggestion, not a commitment
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited September 2016
    Desperate stuff from NBC.

    That pepe meme has been kicking about for years. There are like a million variations of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to claim the jimmy rustling meme was racist as well.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
    If Hillary wins by less than 1% I think the election might come down to recounts, and civil war.

    A disputed close victory for one of the most unpopular persons to ever run for president will definitely risk a civil war.
    We are headed that way and of course Johnson or Stein could play as big a role as Nader in 2000 in a very close race.
    In that case the Foreign Office should draw contingency plans for civil war in America.

    First and foremost which side would Britain take if it should take a side, and what would it gain in exchange.
    Unlikely though a favourable trade deal post Brexit is a must
    What about New England in exchange ? (jokingly)
    Or Hawaii ? (Their state flag is British enough already)
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    @ TimB

    Your man Dak Prescott is looking the part up to this point.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    edited September 2016
    Speedy said:

    Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%

    1% of what?
    The popular vote
    She could get 50.5% of the popular vote and still win by wide margins in all the states she wins, or win a big majority in the electoral college, or both. It's about time the US introduced OPOV!
    If Hillary wins by less than a 1% margin of the national popular vote it would look like a 272-266 victory for her.

    A Trump victory would look like a Trump lead of about 2% nationally and him winning 246-276 with Michigan a tie.

    It's possible but the worse possible scenario for the stability of the USA, that Trump wins the popular vote but Hillary wins the E. College, which is possible if Trump leads by 1% or less.
    Indeed, I am looking at a very narrow Hillary win (focused on Pennsylvania, Virginia and Colorado) but Trump winning Florida and Ohio
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,187
    HYUFD said:


    Putin would not be the problem, China maybe

    Surely the Chinese can understand "business" just as well as the Russians?
  • Options
    viewcode said:
    Thank you ! I read them both in print but was too lazy to find links !
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,228
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    Warren would be a good choice for the Democrats, very different to whoever we get this time.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,641
    Dromedary said:

    DavidL said:

    She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President. It is on even a simple analysis an unbelievably selfish and self-indulgent position.

    For "simple analysis", read "simple-minded analysis". "She has put herself in the position of the only person who can stop Trump becoming President". What does that mean other than that she is the Democratic nominee, running against the Republican nominee? Her campaign hasn't been especially negative.

    Believe that if you like. The way the Clintons bullied pretty much the whole party into not standing against her so that her only opposition came from someone who was not even a Democrat would have had Nixon shaking his head in admiration.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "In Theresa May's meritocracy, what will become of the stupid and useless?
    Charles Moore"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/in-theresa-mays-meritocracy-what-will-become-of-the-stupid-and-u/
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,398
    Sandpit said:

    Essexit said:

    What are the Clinton team going to do about the debates? Dose her up with adrenaline beforehand? Insist on a sit-down format? Find an excuse to cancel altogether? If she takes a tumble like that on live TV with undecided voters watching keenly, surely she's toast.

    There's a snowball's chance in Hell that Trump is going to make any accommodations for Hillary in the debates.

    Given the chance, he'll have them turn up the heating in the hall and have techno music blasting out during the commercial breaks.
    I seem to recall some gubernatorial debate where there was a row about one of the candidates using a fan, and the other one refusing to come out as it was against the rules.

  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Sandpit said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    I'd love to know what happened to make Joe Biden decide not to run.

    The Clintons got the whole party, except Sen. Sanders, to stand aside for her - if they've been hiding something from the whole party then it will be mayhem.*

    *I meant mayhem within the party, but if Trump wins and the GOP hold the Senate, appoint SC judges etc, it will be like the sensible Labour people here who hate what the Tories are doing but are powerless to actually do anything about it.
    Biden did not get into the race because his son was dying. Once his son died, it was already somewhat late for him to join in, and he was in any case undecided whether he personally was ready for the brutality of a campaign, given the crushing loss of his son. By the time it was evident that Hillary was in trouble, it really was too late.

    I am not a huge Biden fan, but I have huge respect for the relationship he had with his kids in the aftermath of his wife's death, and so respect that he had to grieve properly for Beau.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    viewcode said:

    Biden is now up to 7cents on PredictIt. If you believe that Hillary will run regardless of health, then selling Biden at 7c is value.

    https://www.predictit.org/Market/1234/Who-will-win-the-2016-US-presidential-election

    Dromedary said:

    Latest Betfair mid-prices (they are changing fast):

    Biden 34
    Sanders 36
    Kaine 155

    That's an implied probability of 6% that a Democrat who isn't Clinton wins the election.

    There's also now a two-sided market on Michael Bloomberg.

    Those are not rational bettors who are panicking, those are young voters who spend their time on the internet and have never seen such a thing before (the bedrock of Hillary's support by the way).
    They are panicking and are betting on the next name on their minds.

    A rational bettor would never put a penny on either Biden or Sanders, but on Kaine who is actually on the ballot.

    That Bloomberg has made an appearance is interesting, but it's too late for an independent to run, just look at the sad state of Y0kel's favourate CIA agent who is running.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Now claiming she's got pneumonia diagnosed on Friday

    Laughable straw grasping
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
    If Hillary wins by less than 1% I think the election might come down to recounts, and civil war.

    A disputed close victory for one of the most unpopular persons to ever run for president will definitely risk a civil war.
    We are headed that way and of course Johnson or Stein could play as big a role as Nader in 2000 in a very close race.
    In that case the Foreign Office should draw contingency plans for civil war in America.

    First and foremost which side would Britain take if it should take a side, and what would it gain in exchange.
    Unlikely though a favourable trade deal post Brexit is a must
    What about New England in exchange ? (jokingly)
    Or Hawaii ? (Their state flag is British enough already)
    New York and we have the two best cities in the world!
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Speedy said:

    viewcode said:

    Biden is now up to 7cents on PredictIt. If you believe that Hillary will run regardless of health, then selling Biden at 7c is value.

    https://www.predictit.org/Market/1234/Who-will-win-the-2016-US-presidential-election

    Dromedary said:

    Latest Betfair mid-prices (they are changing fast):

    Biden 34
    Sanders 36
    Kaine 155

    That's an implied probability of 6% that a Democrat who isn't Clinton wins the election.

    There's also now a two-sided market on Michael Bloomberg.

    Those are not rational bettors who are panicking, those are young voters who spend their time on the internet and have never seen such a thing before (the bedrock of Hillary's support by the way).
    They are panicking and are betting on the next name on their minds.

    A rational bettor would never put a penny on either Biden or Sanders, but on Kaine who is actually on the ballot.

    That Bloomberg has made an appearance is interesting, but it's too late for an independent to run, just look at the sad state of Y0kel's favourate CIA agent who is running.
    Hillary has done very poorly with young voters. In the primaries, they went big time for Bernie.
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    Hilary Clinton's doctor announces she was diagnosed with pneumonia last friday. So why after today's episode did she come out and say she was fine rather than admit to her diagnosis
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,187
    Charles said:

    In any event "Let's spend it on the NHS instead" is phrased as a suggestion, not a commitment

    Surely the reason it was a lie was nothing to do with whether it was a suggestion, a commitment, a pledge or whatever - it was simply that the money didn't exist. It was gross, not net, so only a fraction of it would be available if we left the EU. As blatant a political lie as you could wish for.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:


    Putin would not be the problem, China maybe

    Surely the Chinese can understand "business" just as well as the Russians?
    Up to a point, who knows what the Chinese might do in relation to trade or in the South China sea to provoke Trump
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,641
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
    She could probably lose by 1% and still win the electoral college, especially if Trump does better in traditionally Democratic States but not well enough to win. Given his focus on the rust bucket states and the White blue collared vote this strikes me as quite plausible.
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    AndyJS said:

    "In Theresa May's meritocracy, what will become of the stupid and useless?
    Charles Moore"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/in-theresa-mays-meritocracy-what-will-become-of-the-stupid-and-u/

    They'll run trade policy.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,265
    PlatoSaid said:

    Now claiming she's got pneumonia diagnosed on Friday

    Laughable straw grasping

    She's lucky not to be dead!
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    MTimT said:

    Speedy said:

    viewcode said:

    Biden is now up to 7cents on PredictIt. If you believe that Hillary will run regardless of health, then selling Biden at 7c is value.

    https://www.predictit.org/Market/1234/Who-will-win-the-2016-US-presidential-election

    Dromedary said:

    Latest Betfair mid-prices (they are changing fast):

    Biden 34
    Sanders 36
    Kaine 155

    That's an implied probability of 6% that a Democrat who isn't Clinton wins the election.

    There's also now a two-sided market on Michael Bloomberg.

    Those are not rational bettors who are panicking, those are young voters who spend their time on the internet and have never seen such a thing before (the bedrock of Hillary's support by the way).
    They are panicking and are betting on the next name on their minds.

    A rational bettor would never put a penny on either Biden or Sanders, but on Kaine who is actually on the ballot.

    That Bloomberg has made an appearance is interesting, but it's too late for an independent to run, just look at the sad state of Y0kel's favourate CIA agent who is running.
    Hillary has done very poorly with young voters. In the primaries, they went big time for Bernie.
    She leads Trump by at least 30 points among 18-34's, it's her best demographic along with Johnson and Stein.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,641

    AndyJS said:

    "In Theresa May's meritocracy, what will become of the stupid and useless?
    Charles Moore"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/in-theresa-mays-meritocracy-what-will-become-of-the-stupid-and-u/

    They'll run trade policy.
    Superfluous question mark?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,382
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    Assuming Trump wins, the acrimony within the Democratic party is going to be severe when they realise what they've done by stitching up the race for a candidate who wasn't fit to run. I suspect the whole Clinton political machine will be purged from the party.

    Selecting a grifter was always going to end in tears.
    Wonder if the Democrats may become ever more extreme - witness the support for Sanders and the violence of his supporters. Shades of Momentum there.
    If Trump wins it will be Sanders or Warren who is the Democratic nominee in 2020, if Hillary wins it will be Cruz who is the GOP nominee. Either way the losing party will pick a radical next time.

    Personally I am sticking to a very narrow Hillary win, her supporters would still vote for her over Trump even if she has to govern from a care home with 24 hour medical assistance. However a Hillary presidency will basically be a geriatric Nixon in a pantsuit
    Sanders will be about 103 in 2020 - not a chance of him standing again
    He is still relatively sprightly for his age, though Warren is more likely
    Warren would be a good choice for the Democrats, very different to whoever we get this time.
    Relies on a Hillary loss though
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,694
    Coming late to this thread but OT, it is striking that the usual assumed gradual trend towards the right with age doesn't really show from the figures; rather there is a disconnect between the retired and people of working age, both young and not-so-young.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,187
    AndyJS said:

    "In Theresa May's meritocracy, what will become of the stupid and useless?

    They become Foreign Secretary?
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    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well to top off a terrible week for Hillary my average daily and weekly tracking polls has her lead down bellow 2% for the first time since the day after the DNC.

    Trump is at his highest since July 29th and Hillary has dipped to an all time low.
    The signs are not good for Hillary for my weekly update tomorrow.

    I am sticking to a Hillary win by less than 1%
    If Hillary wins by less than 1% I think the election might come down to recounts, and civil war.

    A disputed close victory for one of the most unpopular persons to ever run for president will definitely risk a civil war.
    We are headed that way and of course Johnson or Stein could play as big a role as Nader in 2000 in a very close race.
    In that case the Foreign Office should draw contingency plans for civil war in America.

    First and foremost which side would Britain take if it should take a side, and what would it gain in exchange.
    Unlikely though a favourable trade deal post Brexit is a must
    What about New England in exchange ? (jokingly)
    Or Hawaii ? (Their state flag is British enough already)
    New York and we have the two best cities in the world!
    Yes, but on the down side, we'll also have New York...
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    PlatoSaid said:

    Now claiming she's got pneumonia diagnosed on Friday

    Laughable straw grasping

    Wait, Hillary has changed her story ?

    I though her campaign said it was overheating.

    They are doing their best to reduce their credibility to zero.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    tlg86 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Now claiming she's got pneumonia diagnosed on Friday

    Laughable straw grasping

    She's lucky not to be dead!
    It's total cobblers. Unbelievable nonsense.

    Pneumonia isn't trivial/cured in minutes and why not just say so rather than wait hours to conjure up the diagnosis?

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    ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Well if we're propagating rumours, the Clinton team should be getting her checked for poisoning (seemingly low level, if persistent). There are a number of symptoms that set off warning bells; whether relatively benign, like food or air quality or, more worryingly, via something introduced via outside agencies.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,228
    Essexit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Essexit said:

    What are the Clinton team going to do about the debates? Dose her up with adrenaline beforehand? Insist on a sit-down format? Find an excuse to cancel altogether? If she takes a tumble like that on live TV with undecided voters watching keenly, surely she's toast.

    There's a snowball's chance in Hell that Trump is going to make any accommodations for Hillary in the debates.

    Given the chance, he'll have them turn up the heating in the hall and have techno music blasting out during the commercial breaks.
    Lol. You're probably right. Which realistically leaves pulling out, thereby giving Trump an excellent attack line on a silver platter.
    I forgot the 'faulty' light that turns into an annoying strobe, right in the line of sight. Short of having her collapse on stage in the middle of the debate and a 100m audience, Trump would love it if she pulled out.
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    tlg86 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Now claiming she's got pneumonia diagnosed on Friday

    Laughable straw grasping

    She's lucky not to be dead!

    Her doctor has said that after a period of coughing pneumonia was diagnosed on Friday. She was given antibiotics and told to rest. Today she became dehydrated and that has now been resolved.

    I am no doctor but is that explanation really credible
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Speedy said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Now claiming she's got pneumonia diagnosed on Friday

    Laughable straw grasping

    Wait, Hillary has changed her story ?

    I though her campaign said it was overheating.

    They are doing their best to reduce their credibility to zero.
    It's clearly a way to excuse her going AWOL for another few days.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    AndyJS said:

    "In Theresa May's meritocracy, what will become of the stupid and useless?
    Charles Moore"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/in-theresa-mays-meritocracy-what-will-become-of-the-stupid-and-u/

    In education, Moore's approach is a red herring. It is not that 'everyone has their merits' but that everyone should have an education that helps them realize their full potential.

    I am not sure even what his question might mean in other contexts. Does he suggest that we have to accept incompetents in office so as not to be unfair to them? Meritocracy need not mean unfairness, as he seems to suggest.
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    Q1. If Clinton had known in advance she was going to be this ill for a few hours would she have invoked the 25th Amendment ?
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    Speedy said:

    viewcode said:

    Biden is now up to 7cents on PredictIt. If you believe that Hillary will run regardless of health, then selling Biden at 7c is value.

    https://www.predictit.org/Market/1234/Who-will-win-the-2016-US-presidential-election

    Dromedary said:

    Latest Betfair mid-prices (they are changing fast):

    Biden 34
    Sanders 36
    Kaine 155

    That's an implied probability of 6% that a Democrat who isn't Clinton wins the election.

    There's also now a two-sided market on Michael Bloomberg.

    Those are not rational bettors who are panicking, those are young voters who spend their time on the internet and have never seen such a thing before (the bedrock of Hillary's support by the way).
    They are panicking and are betting on the next name on their minds.

    A rational bettor would never put a penny on either Biden or Sanders, but on Kaine who is actually on the ballot.

    That Bloomberg has made an appearance is interesting, but it's too late for an independent to run, just look at the sad state of Y0kel's favourate CIA agent who is running.
    BF punters need to be careful. I may not understand this correctly but this is the ruling:

    "This market will be settled according to the candidate that has the most projected Electoral College votes won at the 2016 presidential election. Any subsequent events such as a ‘faithless elector’ will have no effect on the settlement of this market. In the event that no Presidential candidate receives a majority of the projected Electoral College votes, this market will be settled on the person chosen as President in accordance with the procedures set out by the Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution."

    Not sure what this exactly means, but HRC withdraws due to health and then Kaine is winner, but the person on ballot with most college votes will be HRC.
This discussion has been closed.