It's an excellent piece from the handsome and erudite Mr Meeks. I broadly agree with the thrust but for slightly different reasons. I'll come onto that. But in the short term the strength of May's position is contained in her alchemical formula " Brexit must mean Brexit and we're going to make a success of it. " This is both a Fog Horn and a Dog DELETED AS TEXT TOO LONG as it's called Brexit, it's well managed and then we can all change the subject. I expect the strategy to work.
It is just more whinging bollox from a petulant sulky rich loser who thinks democracy is only for the likes of him and his rich pals.
It's an excellent piece from the handsome and erudite Mr Meeks. I broadly agree with the thrust but for slightly different reasons. I'll come onto that. But in the short term the strength of May's position is contained in her alchemical formula " Brexit must mean Brexit and we're going to make a success of it. " This is both a Fog Horn and a Dog Whistle at the same time. We're heading for synthesis. If tragically our place in Europe was unsustainable thesis, if tragically the Leave proposition was a phantasmagoria of Xenophobic and racist lies May knows victory in FPTP elections ( because we won't be having another UK referendum till all the politicians who remember this one are dead. ) lies in putting the pragmatic half of Remain and Leave votes together and leave the ultra halves of both sides to go hang. The Fog Horn is Brexit means Brexit. She's telling the world it will happen. Make a Success of it is the Dog Whistle. It's admitting a success will have to *made* of it because that far from certain but don't worry I'm in charge not the Three Brexiteers and voters with England Flags on their council houses in Sunderland. In short she's triangulating and attempting to unite the luke warm centre who don't care what Brexit is as long as it's called Brexit, it's well managed and then we can all change the subject. I expect the strategy to work.
It is just more whinging bollox from a petulant sulky rich loser who thinks democracy is only for the likes of him and his rich pals.
I see Nicola is looking for the sympathy vote now.
Trust a cretin lik eyou to come out with something as crass as that. Hopefully tragedy strikes you so you learn something.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
If you sum the votes of these ten English cities - Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford, Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester, Coventry, Brighton and Leicester, you get 53% Remain.
Include Newcastle, Nottingham, Sunderland, Southampton and Plymouth and Remain falls to 51%.
The outlier is clearly Inner London.
Now I can understand why the bankers and millionaires of Inner West London were heavily Remain but why were the deprived voters of Inner East London even more so and far more so than the deprived voters of Outer London.
London, or more particularly Inner London, is now a super wealthy global City on a par with New York City, Paris and Tokyo, the other cities are not in the same league and clearly not as wealthy. I can't see Trump getting many votes in Manhattan and Brooklyn or Marine Le Pen in central Paris either, all those cities think in international rather than national terms
Have to admit the bit I know well is the southern end - clerkenwell etc. which is gentrifying at an astonishing pace
Fair enough, I don't know that bit. In general the whole of Greater London is gentrifying because of the astonishing prices - if you have limited capital, own a home anywhere in the metropolis, and don't need to live in Lonbdon, the temptation to sell up is massive. I don't think it's a malign agenda by anyone, just market forces, though a serious drive to build cheaper accommodation in London would of course counter it.
As a renter, I'm thinking of moving out myself - not much point in paying £1300/month to live in a one-bedroom flat above a shop, as I'm now working freelance rather than (as up to recently) at a good salary down the road. Contemplating moving back to the Nottingham area, not for political reasons but because it's massively cheaper and I know lots of people there.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Not all inner city parts of West Midlands. Although it was shameful that Birmingham voted Leave I was delighted that my ward was 70% Remain. That's because it has a high non-white population. There was almost perfect correlation between the percentage white population and the percentage Leave vote. The racist and ignorant residents of Kingstanding, Erdington, Bartley Green and Kings Norton swung the vote.
It's an excellent piece from the handsome and erudite Mr Meeks. I broadly agree with the thrust but for slightly different reasons. I'll come onto that. But in the short term the strength of May's position is contained in her alchemical formula " Brexit must mean Brexit and we're going to make a success of it. " This is both a Fog Horn and a Dog Whistle at the same time. We're heading for synthesis. If tragically our place in Europe was unsustainable thesis, if tragically the Leave proposition was a phantasmagoria of Xenophobic and racist lies May knows victory in FPTP elections ( because we won't be having another UK referendum till all the politicians who remember this one are dead. ) lies in putting the pragmatic half of Remain and Leave votes together and leave the ultra halves of both sides to go hang. The Fog Horn is Brexit means Brexit. She's telling the world it will happen. Make a Success of it is the Dog Whistle. It's admitting a success will have to *made* of it because that far from certain but don't worry I'm in charge not the Three Brexiteers and voters with England Flags on their council houses in Sunderland. In short she's triangulating and attempting to unite the luke warm centre who don't care what Brexit is as long as it's called Brexit, it's well managed and then we can all change the subject. I expect the strategy to work.
It is just more whinging bollox from a petulant sulky rich loser who thinks democracy is only for the likes of him and his rich pals.
Malcolm, subtracting from the sum total of human knowledge, as usual.
Shouldn't you be pestering your friend (s?) with the SNP Leading Questionaire?
LOL, your hero Tomkins made a real tit of himself, what a loser he is.
I would say it is due to the social cleansing that has gone on in recent years that would make Dame Shirley blush with working classes being replaced with hipster types in boroughs like Islington, Lambeth and Southwark (in some cases forcibly by paying them little more than site value for the council flat they bought, knocking down their flats to replace with yuppie high rises and telling them to f off and find somewhere to live themselves after paying them a sum that would not be enough to buy anywhere in greater london.
Not many hipsters on the big estates in Islington, believe me.
That's right in my experience, and I've canvassed lots of them. Paul may know about Bedfordshire, but his knowledge of Islington seems sketchy.
Out of curiosity why have you canvassed so many Islington estates ?
Was it a one off for the Mayoral and Referendum results or is it something you enjoy / are addicted to after your Broxtowe experiences ?
Nick is a member of the Islington North CLP, I believe.
Sure, but not every party member or MP goes canvassing.
IIRC NickP complained that Crewe and Nantwich hadn't been canvassed for nearly 20 years before the 2008 byelection.
With this Vaz stuff, I never quite get the inclusion of comments about being the subject of a sting operation from the accused. If you still did what was said (and assuming those acts are relevant to your job and not a personal matter) what does it matter if it was a sting or not? Does that mitigate in anyw ay?
As a general comment stings are regarded warily (I think they're illegal for the police in the US?) because the suspicion is that the offence wouldn't have happened without the journalist or police officer making the suggestion. The classic example is police infiltrators to potentially violent groups - they are not supposed to suggest acts of violence to the group, who might otherwise have just drunkenly debated how cool it would be to blow something up.
Where stings are more acceptable is if there is already suspicious evidence of illegal behaviour without the sting.
I was involved in a number of T in the Park cases a few years ago now where a very pretty undercover policewoman had been approaching young men asking them if they were able to supply her with drugs. Their position was that they weren't but they really wanted to be so they went and got some to give to her in the hope of winning her favours. Assuming that was true it would be a good example of why sting operations are looked at with some suspicion.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
It's an excellent piece from the handsome and erudite Mr Meeks. I broadly agree with the thrust but for slightly different reasons. I'll come onto that. But in the short term the strength of May's position is contained in her alchemical formula " Brexit must mean Brexit and we're going to make a success of it. " This is both a Fog Horn and a Dog DELETED AS TEXT TOO LONG as it's called Brexit, it's well managed and then we can all change the subject. I expect the strategy to work.
It is just more whinging bollox from a petulant sulky rich loser who thinks democracy is only for the likes of him and his rich pals.
It's an excellent piece from the handsome and erudite Mr Meeks. I broadly agree with the thrust but for slightly different reasons. I'll come onto that. But in the short term the strength of May's position is contained in her alchemical formula " Brexit must mean Brexit and we're going to make a success of it. " This is both a Fog Horn and a Dog Whistle at the same time. We're heading for synthesis. If tragically our place in Europe was unsustainable thesis, if tragically the Leave proposition was a phantasmagoria of Xenophobic and racist lies May knows victory in FPTP elections ( because we won't be having another UK referendum till all the politicians who remember this one are dead. ) lies in putting the pragmatic half of Remain and Leave votes together and leave the ultra halves of both sides to go hang. The Fog Horn is Brexit means Brexit. She's telling the world it will happen. Make a Success of it is the Dog Whistle. It's admitting a success will have to *made* of it because that far from certain but don't worry I'm in charge not the Three Brexiteers and voters with England Flags on their council houses in Sunderland. In short she's triangulating and attempting to unite the luke warm centre who don't care what Brexit is as long as it's called Brexit, it's well managed and then we can all change the subject. I expect the strategy to work.
It is just more whinging bollox from a petulant sulky rich loser who thinks democracy is only for the likes of him and his rich pals.
I see Nicola is looking for the sympathy vote now.
No loser like a sore loser, eh?
Dear Dear I knew you were a bitter twisted person , but just how low can you stoop, disgraceful what Tories will come up with.
Then finally you have people like me who'll now use the EU flag like the Confederate one. It'll start small be grow over time. Absolutely everything will be the fault of having left the EU. It will be the mirror image of the last 43 years. All the big glacial issues will continue. The deficit reduction, globalisation, the Great Migration, ecological collapse, endless Tory rule but it will all be Brexit's fault. BUT... The British Left is a crude, patronising, unhappy and colonial alliance of liberal Metropolitans, ethnic minorities and the working classes. If the voters of Sunderland so hare my metropolitan liberalism so much they've ripped my European Citizenship and identity away, empowered a right wing Tory government and engaged in a vulgar spurt of populist ethnonationalism why shouldn't I launch a counter strike ? If one part of Britain's Left is telling the other to f**k off what happens if we then do ? I always mock Scottish Nationalists for favouring solidarity with Catalonia but not Carlise. I've had an epiphany. To be honest I feel more in common with Sweden at the moment than Sunderland. When the inevitable Brexit cuts hit WWC area in England and Wales hardest, and they will, I'm not going on a protest march, voting or doing bugger all about it. I'll be too busy laughing and spending more time on writing Amnesty letters. The world's in flames, we've one life and if you blame foreigners for your problems I don't care about helping you. If you think Liam Fox will be a better ally good luck. They'll be plenty of Tories who'll need my help preserving what we can of the ' Four Freedoms '.
I know. Isn't it terrible when the 52% impose their will on the 8%? That's the thing about democracy: if you want to lead against the people's instincts, you have to have a damn good explanation of why you're doing it. I gave my reasons why I was pro-EU; what's yours?
Have your views changed since the Referendum ?
You've made angry comments about the metropolitan Remainers since.
Is that because you blame them for the Leave win or has their reaction subsequently changed the mind of Conservative Remainers.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
No we remainders have reconciled ourselves. The problem is you Leavers haven't a clue what you want.
What will happen to competed surveys that state that the SNP are a bunch of turnips?
You cretin they will b econsidered just like the others, unlike the Westminster losers the SNP actually believe and practice democracy. Back under your rock cockroach.
I don't mind being told to leave the country by some Tory posters ! I was trying to hit a nerve with that post and am glad I have. We all know a particularar section of the Brexit vote is being lionised because they are are now blaming immigrants rather than Thatcher. The immeadiate post Bellum solidarity will last a while but then you'll go back to hating them as you always did. It's now I'll be agreeing with you.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Yup
Bollocks.
Leavers never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum and whinged and moaned about it for 41 years
On standards, the nearest thing to hand is the new BT Smart Hub I installed last month,
It complies to RETTED 1999/5/EC.
That places three obligations on the manufacturer, one on the member state:
- Electrical safety and electrical interference. - Publication of physical and electrical interfaces to promote interoperability. - Disclosure of intended use and limitations thereof.
- Rules on access to RF spectrum (as the RF spectrum is not harmonised EU-wide).
The first two are defined elsewhere and incorporated in RETTED. The third is standard rubric in consumer law pretty much worldwide.
Always nice to have concrete examples of what can otherwise be fairly abstract discussions. I'm sure I'll be able to find a much more complex example later, but for now, it's time to test the leg on a more ambitious walk. Toodle pip!
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
Thoutter Enders.
Yep, as I
I'm not sure May is so pliable and ineffective.
I'm.
May hind
Only UKIP voters back Hardest Brexit perhaps. But plenty of MPs will want either that or harder Brexit than what is offered.
If compromise is needed, it will be needed toward the Hard crowd, as they will be the noisiest and most difficult. We are continually told by people on here that 'access' to the single market is
I'm not saying it will, I'm saying it might, and if it does I'd bet money on May compromising before hardliners. Hardliners don't compromise. As I said, we won't get everything we want, nobody does in life, so what we say we want will be less than we what really want, I suspect (or think we can get at least). Its just a question of how much fighting May will need to do - you don't think that much it seems, which I'd hope for whatever the type of Brexit we get, but I'm doubtful given the personalities involved.
In a contest between May and IDS there is only one winner and it is not the latter given where the Tories are now polling and where they were polling when he was in charge, May will not want to go back to that. The most uncompromising people in politics at the moment are Corbynistas and hard BREXITeers, it is no coincidence they are both the furthest from the median voter which May knows only too well
The Tories won't be polling at their current level forever. May will still be in the stronger position, but she will have moments of vulnerability, and the HardLeaver arguments got the strongest play in the referendum (unfortunately in my view, being a less Hard Brexiteer), there is a market for them.
My main issue is we see a lot of 'May has made quite clear' sort of comments, but what she has 'made clear' need not be the way things will go. It's a chance, only.
Anyway, time to be useful and put up some bookcases. Ugh, that almost counts as physical labour.
May would pick a line between hard and soft Brexit which will satisfy most bar the fanatics, good luck with the bookcases
May showing her inexperience today I think. Talks about optimism whilst clumsily saying "it won't be plain sailing".
Isn't politicians being more honest with the public something that the public keep asking for?
It's the way she immediately put herself back on the optimism line that gives it away.
I take it that you'd criticise this for giving out the same mixed messages then:?
We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: victory; victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. Let that be realized; no survival for the British Empire, no survival for all that the British Empire has stood for, no survival for the urge and impulse of the ages, that mankind will move forward towards its goal. But I take up my task with buoyancy and hope. I feel sure that our cause will not be suffered to fail among men.
Probably his greatest speech. Always reminds me of Aragon's speech at the Black Gate as well.
I suspect that Aragon's speech reminds you of Churchill's. IIRC, neither of Aragorn's two 'Henry V' speeches are in the book so will have been written specifically for the film. I'd be amazed if they hadn't used Churchill's words as inspiration in some way.
FWIW, I think the Pellanor Fields is the better: "... but it is not this day!"
That is the Black Gate speech. At Pellanor Fields he just got off the boats and attacked. It is a while since I have read it but I think there was at least a version of the speech in the book.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Are you saying that if the result had been the over way around, you would have reconciled yourself to the majority remain result?
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
Looking at the numbers May must assess she is safe enough for a victory in 2020.What might disturb her is a collegiate cross-party alliance in England, which was suggested by Chris Mullen some time ago.It means realpolitiks.What is the point of standing against the LibDems in Westmoreland,the Greens in Brighton Pavilion or Labour in Islington North?
1. It gives people a chance to support the policy and values of the party in question. 2. Over time - decades if necessary - a party can move from a position of irrelevance to holding a safe seat; the Greens in Brighton being a case in point.
Jeeeezz that Mirror report is absolutely nuclear. Worse still at the end of a text it is alleged that Vaz sent he "signed off with a smiley face emoticon"
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
If you sum the votes of these ten English cities - Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford, Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester, Coventry, Brighton and Leicester, you get 53% Remain.
Include Newcastle, Nottingham, Sunderland, Southampton and Plymouth and Remain falls to 51%.
The outlier is clearly Inner London.
Now I can understand why the bankers and millionaires of Inner West London were heavily Remain but why were the deprived voters of Inner East London even more so and far more so than the deprived voters of Outer London.
London, or more particularly Inner London, is now a super wealthy global City on a par with New York City, Paris and Tokyo, the other cities are not in the same league and clearly not as wealthy. I can't see Trump getting many votes in Manhattan and Brooklyn or Marine Le Pen in central Paris either, all those cities think in international rather than national terms
True and that explains why the millionaires and bankers of Inner West London voted Remain.
Also, the arts / media leftists of Camden and Islington.
But why did the deprived voters of Inner London vote so strongly Remain - they're not benefitting from London being a super wealthy global city, in fact the contrary - it damages them economically and rubs their faces in inequality.
And a few miles further out the deprived voters of Outer London had the same pattern as those in other English cities.
I don't mind being told to leave the country by some Tory posters ! I was trying to hit a nerve with that post and am glad I have. We all know a particularar section of the Brexit vote is being lionised because they are are now blaming immigrants rather than Thatcher. The immeadiate post Bellum solidarity will last a while but then you'll go back to hating them as you always did. It's now I'll be agreeing with you.
The noises coming out of the G20 are not encouraging for the UK. If they turn into actions, it will be interesting to see how opinion develops. Again, it's worth remembering that on both sides most people did not cast their votes with iron certainty and implacable conviction. Remain lost because it fought a poor campaign and had no answers on immigration (Cameron, Osborne and the rest having spent the previous ten years saying how disastrous immigration is), not because people in Sunderland and elsewhere are racist flat-earthers.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Are you saying that if the result had been the over way around, you would have reconciled yourself to the majority remain result?
I doubt he would be clogging up PB with smarmy thread headers
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
The tone, if not the exact words, of that comment are overconfident. Leave did indeed have a majority and that should be respected in the policy to flow from it i.e. the UK must invoke Article 50 within a reasonable amount of time.
But the inference - that Brexit is and was the settled view of the country - isn't right. Remain could easily have won on the day with a better and more positive campaign. For practical purposes, 'if's are irrelevant now but triumphant Leavers should recognise that there isn't necessarily a permanent majority for their side.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
There is only one BIG city in the UK.
Birmingham/West Midlands has easily more than 1 million people.
I am sure Japan has it own regulation on product standards and as far as I know nobody is demanding they be the same as those in the EU. Japan has trade rules and regulations that suit them, why should not the UK?
Well, taking the Japan case: My friend does regulatory compliance for a company making animal vaccines in Japan, and apparently there is actually some pressure to make them the same as the EU. If you want to make vaccines in Japan and export them to Thailand, you basically need to be in compliance with the EU standard, because the Thai standard is based on the EU standard. The upshot is that the whole of the EU, and Thailand, and all the other countries following the EU standard, can sell to each other without a lot of extra costs, while Japanese companies have to learn to jump through a whole different set of hoops once they want to export. There's a benefit here too in that this acts as a deterrent for imports which benefits domestic companies, but long-term you're generally better off with a bigger accessible market rather than a small protected one.
There's not enough pressure that Japan actually *has* made its vaccine regulations the same as the EU, and there are a lot of areas where Japan has different standards, even when pretty much the entire rest of the world is using the same standard; This happens partly because Japan has a large domestic market, partly because it's nearest neighbours have historically not been on the same level economically, and partly because people in government don't have the language and cultural skills to work with other countries on a common standard, while Japanese manufacturers are very efficient to work together with the regulators to sort out their own thing. But in Japan right now that's not generally considered to be working out well. The expression you see in the business press is "脱ガラパゴス" ("Datsu-Garapagosu") which means something like "Escaping from the Galapagos Islands".
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
There is only one BIG city in the UK.
Birmingham/West Midlands has easily more than 1 million people.
I would say it is due to the social cleansing that has gone on in recent years that would make Dame Shirley blush with working classes being replaced with hipster types in boroughs like Islington, Lambeth and Southwark (in some cases forcibly by paying them little more than site value for the council flat they bought, knocking down their flats to replace with yuppie high rises and telling them to f off and find somewhere to live themselves after paying them a sum that would not be enough to buy anywhere in greater london.
Not many hipsters on the big estates in Islington, believe me.
That's right in my experience, and I've canvassed lots of them. Paul may know about Bedfordshire, but his knowledge of Islington seems sketchy.
Have to admit the bit I know well is the southern end - clerkenwell etc. which is gentrifying at an astonishing pace
Would she be first Minister if she had not had a miscarriage? She is not sure.
Our resident scumbags think otherwise David
The interesting bit (apart from the personal sorrow) is she is still conflicted. She says that if she could go back to her 20s and have children younger she would do that. But if the price of doing that is not to achieve what she has achieved then she is not so sure.
A driven and successful career woman who put off having children until it turned out to be too late. Tough choices all round. I sympathise.
These are the least of the allegations against Keith Vaz...
There is also something rather ironic that it he has been caught out by Romanians again.
I don't come to rob your country': First Romanians to arrive in Britain following changes to EU migrant rules insist they are looking for work after being greeted at the airport by Labour MP Keith Vaz **
I don't mind being told to leave the country by some Tory posters ! I was trying to hit a nerve with that post and am glad I have. We all know a particularar section of the Brexit vote is being lionised because they are are now blaming immigrants rather than Thatcher. The immeadiate post Bellum solidarity will last a while but then you'll go back to hating them as you always did. It's now I'll be agreeing with you.
The noises coming out of the G20 are not encouraging for the UK. If they turn into actions, it will be interesting to see how opinion develops. Again, it's worth remembering that on both sides most people did not cast their votes with iron certainty and implacable conviction. Remain lost because it fought a poor campaign and had no answers on immigration (Cameron, Osborne and the rest having spent the previous ten years saying how disastrous immigration is), not because people in Sunderland and elsewhere are racist flat-earthers.
Agree with this, though I think there has been a concerted effort by the US and EU nations to try and take a scorched earth approach to Brexit so other waverers fall into line, especially now that the immediate economic fall out looks pretty small (non-existent?) and nations like Italy have their own pivotal referendums coming up soon that could fall victim to exactly the same phenomenon you describe. The immediate aftermath was always going to be tough on the international stage, but I don't think it's a big concern going forwards.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
There is only one BIG city in the UK.
Birmingham/West Midlands has easily more than 1 million people.
That's piddling
In fact, Birmingham is the single most populous local council area in the UK.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Haven't yet seen too much evidence of Brexiteers extending the hand of friendship.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
There is only one BIG city in the UK.
Birmingham/West Midlands has easily more than 1 million people.
That's piddling
In fact, Birmingham is the single most populous local council area in the UK.
May showing her inexperience today I think. Talks about optimism whilst clumsily saying "it won't be plain sailing".
Isn't politicians being more honest with the public something that the public keep asking for?
It's the way she immediately put herself back on the optimism line that gives it away.
I take it that you'd criticise this for giving out the same mixed messages then:?
We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: victory; victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. Let that be realized; no survival for the British Empire, no survival for all that the British Empire has stood for, no survival for the urge and impulse of the ages, that mankind will move forward towards its goal. But I take up my task with buoyancy and hope. I feel sure that our cause will not be suffered to fail among men.
Probably his greatest speech. Always reminds me of Aragon's speech at the Black Gate as well.
I suspect that Aragon's speech reminds you of Churchill's. IIRC, neither of Aragorn's two 'Henry V' speeches are in the book so will have been written specifically for the film. I'd be amazed if they hadn't used Churchill's words as inspiration in some way.
FWIW, I think the Pellanor Fields is the better: "... but it is not this day!"
That is the Black Gate speech. At Pellanor Fields he just got off the boats and attacked. It is a while since I have read it but I think there was at least a version of the speech in the book.
Quite right. I'd put him and the speech in Theoden's place in my mind.
Have to admit the bit I know well is the southern end - clerkenwell etc. which is gentrifying at an astonishing pace
Fair enough, I don't know that bit. In general the whole of Greater London is gentrifying because of the astonishing prices - if you have limited capital, own a home anywhere in the metropolis, and don't need to live in Lonbdon, the temptation to sell up is massive. I don't think it's a malign agenda by anyone, just market forces, though a serious drive to build cheaper accommodation in London would of course counter it.
As a renter, I'm thinking of moving out myself - not much point in paying £1300/month to live in a one-bedroom flat above a shop, as I'm now working freelance rather than (as up to recently) at a good salary down the road. Contemplating moving back to the Nottingham area, not for political reasons but because it's massively cheaper and I know lots of people there.
That is exactly what I did, swapped a small flat in SW16 for a 3 bed with garage in beds for much the same price.
Takes me 5 minutes longer to get to work in central London.
The big shock was the difference in quality of public services -buses excepted. Everything in London is overcrowded and stretched to the limit.
Would she be first Minister if she had not had a miscarriage? She is not sure.
Our resident scumbags think otherwise David
The interesting bit (apart from the personal sorrow) is she is still conflicted. She says that if she could go back to her 20s and have children younger she would do that. But if the price of doing that is not to achieve what she has achieved then she is not so sure.
A driven and successful career woman who put off having children until it turned out to be too late. Tough choices all round. I sympathise.
Imagine it will always be something she ponders, if only. Sad for anyone on a personal level.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
And as I indicate below Middlesbrough (note spelling) is in fact a town!
Out of curiosity why have you canvassed so many Islington estates ?
Was it a one off for the Mayoral and Referendum results or is it something you enjoy / are addicted to after your Broxtowe experiences ?
Nick is a member of the Islington North CLP, I believe.
Both points are right. For the Mayoral in particular, the challenge wasn't to get voters here to support Khan (he got 75% IIRC) but to get them to turn out. And also there's a bit of guilt if people like me are beavering away and I'm sitting at home writing on PB or whatever.
And I do enjoy it, though more outside London as the experience of canvassing blocks of flats with zillions of people moved or out is a bit demoralising. Canvassing is a good way of finding out what people are actually preoccupied with, and if you compare with past canvasses of the same people it's usually a good guide (it's a crap guide if you take raw results), though late swings can surprise you.
Also, it's just nice to meet a lot of people interested in politics (the ones who aren't just politely decline to talk).
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
Birmingham and Sheffield - mentioned by implication in the metro-areas name-checked - are more than large towns.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
There is only one BIG city in the UK.
As I pointed out earlier London is the only global City in the UK but there are plenty of big cities in the UK too
I would say it is due to the social cleansing that has gone on in recent years that would make Dame Shirley blush with working classes being replaced with hipster types in boroughs like Islington, Lambeth and Southwark (in some cases forcibly by paying them little more than site value for the council flat they bought, knocking down their flats to replace with yuppie high rises and telling them to f off and find somewhere to live themselves after paying them a sum that would not be enough to buy anywhere in greater london.
Not many hipsters on the big estates in Islington, believe me.
That's right in my experience, and I've canvassed lots of them. Paul may know about Bedfordshire, but his knowledge of Islington seems sketchy.
Have to admit the bit I know well is the southern end - clerkenwell etc. which is gentrifying at an astonishing pace
Would she be first Minister if she had not had a miscarriage? She is not sure.
Our resident scumbags think otherwise David
The interesting bit (apart from the personal sorrow) is she is still conflicted. She says that if she could go back to her 20s and have children younger she would do that. But if the price of doing that is not to achieve what she has achieved then she is not so sure.
A driven and successful career woman who put off having children until it turned out to be too late. Tough choices all round. I sympathise.
Imagine it will always be something she ponders, if only. Sad for anyone on a personal level.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
There is only one BIG city in the UK.
Birmingham/West Midlands has easily more than 1 million people.
That's piddling
In fact, Birmingham is the single most populous local council area in the UK.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Yup
Bollocks.
Leavers never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum and whinged and moaned about it for 41 years
Bollocks
That referendum was based on a trade agreement between nations emanating from the original trade bloc set up known as Benelux. It was not a referendum on what then transpired over the years into a full political and monetary union . I was 17 when the vote was taken so just missed it. It destroyed the company which I then was working for thereafter as a direct consequence.
Nice try though.
As I said yesterday I am Not arguing about Brexit anymore ....fed up with it as I have been all my life and yet never had a chance to put my view. Right or wrong the Vote was taken and now we move on based this time on what we have now in 2016 not based on what was stated in 1975.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. o hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
If you sum the votes of these ten English cities -
onal terms
True and that explains why the millionaires and bankers of Inner West London voted Remain.
Also, the arts / media leftists of Camden and Islington.
But why did the deprived voters of Inner London vote so strongly Remain - they're not benefitting from London being a super wealthy global city, in fact the contrary - it damages them economically and rubs their faces in inequality.
And a few miles further out the deprived voters of Outer London had the same pattern as those in other English cities.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This cy with a o hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
If you sum the votes of these ten English cities - Birmingham,
London, or more nal terms
True and that explains why the millionaires and bankers of Inner West London voted Remain.
Also, the arts / media leftists of Camden and Islington.
But why did the deprived voters of Inner London vote so strongly Remain - they're not benefitting from London being a super wealthy global city, in fact the contrary - it damages them economically and rubs their faces in inequality.
And a few miles further out the deprived voters of Outer London had the same pattern as those in other English cities.
As the deprived voters of inner London tend to be ethnic minorities who disliked the anti immigrant tone of the Leave campaign
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
And as I indicate below Middlesbrough (note spelling) is in fact a town!
Its more of a town within the Teesside conurbation with the others being Stockton, Billingham, Redcar, Hartlepool. and possibly Darlington.
Likewise the Bournemouth-Poole-Christchurch conurbation and the Stoke-NewcastleUL conurbation.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
Birmingham and Sheffield - mentioned by implication in the metro-areas name-checked - are more than large towns.
Indeed but Birmingham and Sheffield only narrowly voted Leave i.e. by less than the national average
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Are you saying that if the result had been the over way around, you would have reconciled yourself to the majority remain result?
I know that was addressed elsewhere but I can say From my prospective YES.
Feel free to check my previous posts leading up to the referendum if that's not accepted.
I said if we vote to remain by 50% +1 then we should engage fully, full free movement and I also stated that we should even join the Euro at earliest opportunity. I though, accept the democratic will of the people right or wrong and would make the best of it which is the difference here.
My last word on this because I am utterly fecking bored of it.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
Birmingham and Sheffield - mentioned by implication in the metro-areas name-checked - are more than large towns.
Indeed but Birmingham, for example, only narrowly voted Leave i.e. by less than the national average
There's a rough divide between 'metropolitan' cities which were strongly Remain - Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Cardiff and Brighton - and 'industrial' cities which were strongly Leave - Coventry, Plymouth, Hull, Stoke, Sunderland, Derby.
Birmingham, Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle and Nottingham have attributes of both and were 50:50.
Not all inner city parts of West Midlands. Although it was shameful that Birmingham voted Leave I was delighted that my ward was 70% Remain. That's because it has a high non-white population. There was almost perfect correlation between the percentage white population and the percentage Leave vote. The racist and ignorant residents of Kingstanding, Erdington, Bartley Green and Kings Norton swung the vote.
My ward, Four Oaks, also (just about!) voted Remain, even though it has a low non-white population, presumably because it is quite affluent. Kingstanding and Erdington, though predominantly white, are relatively poor - that's the WWC vote. I don't know Bartley Green and Kings Norton.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc voted Remain and while some did vote Leave eg Birmingham and Sunderland big Cities were clearly more pro Remain than the national average. Those cities that did vote Leave tended to have more in common with Leave voting working class towns than they did with inner London
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
If you sum the votes of these ten English cities - Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford, Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester, Coventry, Brighton and Leicester, you get 53% Remain.
Include Newcastle, Nottingham, Sunderland, Southampton and Plymouth and Remain falls to 51%.
The outlier is clearly Inner London.
Now I can understand why the bankers and millionaires of Inner West London were heavily Remain but why were the deprived voters of Inner East London even more so and far more so than the deprived voters of Outer London.
London, or more particularly Inner London, is now a super wealthy global City on a par with New York City, Paris and Tokyo, the other cities are not in the same league and clearly not as wealthy. I can't see Trump getting many votes in Manhattan and Brooklyn or Marine Le Pen in central Paris either, all those cities think in international rather than national terms
True and that explains why the millionaires and bankers of Inner West London voted Remain.
Also, the arts / media leftists of Camden and Islington.
But why did the deprived voters of Inner London vote so strongly Remain - they're not benefitting from London being a super wealthy global city, in fact the contrary - it damages them economically and rubs their faces in inequality.
And a few miles further out the deprived voters of Outer London had the same pattern as those in other English cities.
see my post from below- haringey is now the biggest CLP in the country.
......why were the deprived voters of Inner East London even more so and far more so than the deprived voters of Outer London.
Inner East London is chalk and cheese with lots of fairly grim social housing sitting alongside very pricey private developments. Anyone who wants to buy needs to be earning well above national average wage.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Yup
Bollocks.
Leavers never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum and whinged and moaned about it for 41 years
Bollocks to you. The question in 1975 was "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" The bit in brackets had to be there because that's what we all called it (you would have to have been a serious geek to know what the European Community was) and that was what we all thought it was. This year's referendum was about the European Union; not the same thing at all.
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
snip
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
If you sum the votes of these ten English cities - Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford, Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester, Coventry, Brighton and Leicester, you get 53% Remain.
Include Newcastle, Nottingham, Sunderland, Southampton and Plymouth and Remain falls to 51%.
The outlier is clearly Inner London.
Now I can understand why the bankers and millionaires of Inner West London were heavily Remain but why were the deprived voters of Inner East London even more so and far more so than the deprived voters of Outer London.
London, or more particularly Inner London, is now a super wealthy global City on a par with New York City, Paris and Tokyo, the other cities are not in the same league and clearly not as wealthy. I can't see Trump getting many votes in Manhattan and Brooklyn or Marine Le Pen in central Paris either, all those cities think in international rather than national terms
True and that explains why the millionaires and bankers of Inner West London voted Remain.
Also, the arts / media leftists of Camden and Islington.
But why did the deprived voters of Inner London vote so strongly Remain - they're not benefitting from London being a super wealthy global city, in fact the contrary - it damages them economically and rubs their faces in inequality.
And a few miles further out the deprived voters of Outer London had the same pattern as those in other English cities.
see my post from below- haringey is now the biggest CLP in the country.
Thought that was B&Hove - don't they have a few thousand?
And as I indicate below Middlesbrough (note spelling) is in fact a town!
Its more of a town within the Teesside conurbation with the others being Stockton, Billingham, Redcar, Hartlepool. and possibly Darlington.
Likewise the Bournemouth-Poole-Christchurch conurbation and the Stoke-NewcastleUL conurbation.
In reply to Another Richard:
Though the Tees runs through Darlington, it is not part of the Teesside conurbation (there's around 10 miles of (largely) countryside to its east before you arrive at Stockton. It functions in some ways as a North Yorkshire market town, even though the Yorkshire border is three miles to its south.
My point in raising the basic error SeanF made about Middlesbrough is that there is a distinct tendency for Brexiteers on this site to opine on the supposed reasons people chose to vote Out in areas they clearly know very little about.
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Are you saying that if the result had been the over way around, you would have reconciled yourself to the majority remain result?
I know that was addressed elsewhere but I can say From my prospective YES.
Feel free to check my previous posts leading up to the referendum if that's not accepted.
I said if we vote to remain by 50% +1 then we should engage fully, full free movement and I also stated that we should even join the Euro at earliest opportunity. I though, accept the democratic will of the people right or wrong and would make the best of it which is the difference here.
My last word on this because I am utterly fecking bored of it.
That's fair enough from your perspective, but I was responding to Mr K's post.
Though the Tees runs through Darlington, it is not part of the Teesside conurbation (there's around 10 miles of (largely) countryside to its east before you arrive at Stockton. It functions in some ways as a North Yorkshire market town, even though the Yorkshire border is three miles to its south.
My point in raising the basic error SeanF made about Middlesbrough is that there is a distinct tendency for Brexiteers on this site to opine on the supposed reasons people chose to vote Out in areas they clearly know very little about.
And Remoaners don't also suppose reasons why people voted to Leave? (Usually "ignorant" "bigoted" "racist" etc etc of course...)
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Are you saying that if the result had been the over way around, you would have reconciled yourself to the majority remain result?
I know that was addressed elsewhere but I can say From my prospective YES.
Feel free to check my previous posts leading up to the referendum if that's not accepted.
I said if we vote to remain by 50% +1 then we should engage fully, full free movement and I also stated that we should even join the Euro at earliest opportunity. I though, accept the democratic will of the people right or wrong and would make the best of it which is the difference here.
My last word on this because I am utterly fecking bored of it.
That's fair enough from your perspective, but I was responding to Mr K's post.
Yes I know and I did acknowledge that or tried too
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Haven't yet seen too much evidence of Brexiteers extending the hand of friendship.
And how would that "hand of friendship" actually materialise as? "Oh, okay then buddy, we'll stay in the EU if you feel that upset about it.."
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
There is a lot I can agree/sympathise with in Alastair's piece, but the danger for the Tory party is not one.
It is clear from the messaging of the new Govt that the next election is going to be run on the basis of UKIP having been extinguished as an electoral force in the South and Midlands by the EU vote.
Let us look at Cornwall, where LDs are getting excited about a few Parish Council results - the LD vote was 66k across 6 seats, but UKIP had 40k across those six seats, and came 3rd in 5 of the seats.
Leave was a MUCH better result for the Tory party than Remain. Which probably accounts for why there was such a backlash against Cammo and Osbo within the party during the campaign. I drafted a resignation letter from the party that I have been a member of almost continuously for nearly half my life. I am glad that I didn't send it.
Then finally you have people like me who'll now use the EU flag like the Confederate one. It'll start small be grow over time. Absolutely everything will be the fault of having left the EU. It will be the mirror image of the last 43 years. All the big glacial issues will continue. The deficit reduction, globalisation, the Great Migration, ecological collapse, endless Tory rule but it will all be Brexit's fault. BUT... The British Left is a crude, patronising, unhappy and colonial alliance of liberal Metropolitans, ethnic minorities and the working classes. If the voters of Sunderland so hare my metropolitan liberalism so much they've ripped my European Citizenship and identity away, empowered a right wing Tory government and engaged in a vulgar spurt of populist ethnonationalism why shouldn't I launch a counter strike ? If one part of Britain's Left is telling the other to f**k off what happens if we then do ? I always mock Scottish Nationalists for favouring solidarity with Catalonia but not Carlise. I've had an epiphany. To be honest I feel more in common with Sweden at the moment than Sunderland. When the inevitable Brexit cuts hit WWC area in England and Wales hardest, and they will, I'm not going on a protest march, voting or doing bugger all about it. I'll be too busy laughing and spending more time on writing Amnesty letters. The world's in flames, we've one life and if you blame foreigners for your problems I don't care about helping you. If you think Liam Fox will be a better ally good luck. They'll be plenty of Tories who'll need my help preserving what we can of the ' Four Freedoms '.
It's people like you - who rather look after a narrow section of people who agree with you, wherever they may live in the world, rather than look after all the people of your own society (be it your city, nation, whatever) - why the West is so fcked.
Enjoy your new life hating your own countrymen. I suggest you go and move to your beloved EU.
Ah, the first 'if you don't like living here etc' of the morning.
You seem to be directing a fair amount of personalised hate to at least one of your countrymen..
If you're so unhappy with the direction the country you live in is going (eg Brexit) then you can exercise that oh-so-cherished freedom of movement.
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
Not all inner city parts of West Midlands. Although it was shameful that Birmingham voted Leave I was delighted that my ward was 70% Remain. That's because it has a high non-white population. There was almost perfect correlation between the percentage white population and the percentage Leave vote. The racist and ignorant residents of Kingstanding, Erdington, Bartley Green and Kings Norton swung the vote.
Stop rasping your knuckles. Take your offence and migrate somewhere else....
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
I think you are over interpreting this - and looking at it through the wrong prism.
This is simply the metropolitan / non-metropolitan divide. Leave/Remain has just thrown it into sharp relief.
It's a divide that has persisted for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to persist.
The only thing that is unusual is that for the last 20 years (since Blair) politics has been utterly dominated by the metropolitan tendency with a very narrow worldview and the contempt that Londoners have always had for their country cousins.
That was simply unhealthy, and I'm glad that the natural order has reasserted itself. London has a hugely important role to play in the country, but its priorities and interests are different from those of the rest of the realm and it should never been allow to hold sway.
Indeed.
And exacerbated by the metropolitans being so incompetent and so unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their own failures.
It's Inner London that's the outlier (72% Remain). Outer London only voted 54% Remain, which makes it more similar to the rest of urban England (45% Remain) than to Inner London.
Most large cities, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Liverpool, Leicester etc v
Most Metroplitan Borough Councils (outside London) voted Leave as well as cities like Portsmouth, Plymouth,Nottingham, Middlesborough, Derby, Stoke, and the Bournemouth conurbation. In fact, every borough in South Yorkshire and West Midlands voted Leave.
Yes but all of those cities you mention are outside the top 10 largest in the UK and are more like large towns than big cities
Birmingham and Sheffield - mentioned by implication in the metro-areas name-checked - are more than large towns.
Indeed but Birmingham, for example, only narrowly voted Leave i.e. by less than the national average
There's a rough divide between 'metropolitan' cities which were strongly Remain - Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Cardiff and Brighton - and 'industrial' cities which were strongly Leave - Coventry, Plymouth, Hull, Stoke, Sunderland, Derby.
Birmingham, Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle and Nottingham have attributes of both and were 50:50.
Good point, though on the whole 'industrial' cities tend to be halfway houses between large towns and larger 'metropolitan' cities
There is a lot I can agree/sympathise with in Alastair's piece, but the danger for the Tory party is not one.
It is clear from the messaging of the new Govt that the next election is going to be run on the basis of UKIP having been extinguished as an electoral force in the South and Midlands by the EU vote.
Let us look at Cornwall, where LDs are getting excited about a few Parish Council results - the LD vote was 66k across 6 seats, but UKIP had 40k across those six seats, and came 3rd in 5 of the seats.
Leave was a MUCH better result for the Tory party than Remain. Which probably accounts for why there was such a backlash against Cammo and Osbo within the party during the campaign. I drafted a resignation letter from the party that I have been a member of almost continuously for nearly half my life. I am glad that I didn't send it.
I might write a piece about it.
Given May will most likely agree some limited free movement for limited single market access, especially in light of the Japanese letter and her comments today, that will not be the hard BREXIT UKIP want and so that they will still campaign on a 'complete end to free movement' ticket at the 2020 election
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Haven't yet seen too much evidence of Brexiteers extending the hand of friendship.
And how would that "hand of friendship" actually materialise as? "Oh, okay then buddy, we'll stay in the EU if you feel that upset about it.."
I think we should refer to Tyson as the PB guru on the subject or acceptance an reconciliation
The fault in society is being made larger by the likes of Alistair Meeks - hardened Remainers, who cannot, or rather will not, reconcile themselves to the Leavers majority in the Brexit referendum.
Yup
Bollocks.
Leavers never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum and whinged and moaned about it for 41 years
Bollocks to you. The question in 1975 was "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" The bit in brackets had to be there because that's what we all called it (you would have to have been a serious geek to know what the European Community was) and that was what we all thought it was. This year's referendum was about the European Union; not the same thing at all.
Quite. I was happy enough with the EEC/EC till the late 80's/ early 90's. Free (ish) trade, single market, freedom of movement pre cheap flights amongst a bunch a W European (Greece aside) states not an issue. Problem is it metamorphosed into something pretty different without anybody bothering to ask me till I was the wrong side of 50 if I actually approved. Worse I was promised a vote on the Constitution only to have it taken away by the back door precisely one suspects because Blair was scared the voters might not approve ( shock horror ). Events of 2015/16 just proved the EU had a tin ear to our concerns and was not going to be moved from its self proclaimed unity destiny by anything as trivial as the will of people(s) not wanting it. Our own leaders at the time were hopelessly exposed as not actually having the backbone to really address this and "failed their essay".
You can't fool all the people all the time. It took 41 years to catch up but old Abe was right in the end. The EU has signally failed to build solid foundations because it hasn't actually got the will of the people on board. It kept getting round them by stealth and salami slicing. Result Brexit and things like yesterday's monster pro EU demonstration in ( an admittedly very wet) Cardiff ( a city of about 340k people that voted 60% Remain) of a multitudinous 75. 75 ffs! I imagine there were more people queuing at the tills in Primark!
Well, taking the Japan case: My friend does regulatory compliance for a company making animal vaccines in Japan, and apparently there is actually some pressure to make them the same as the EU. If you want to make vaccines in Japan and export them to Thailand, you basically need to be in compliance with the EU standard, because the Thai standard is based on the EU standard. The upshot is that the whole of the EU, and Thailand, and all the other countries following the EU standard, can sell to each other without a lot of extra costs, while Japanese companies have to learn to jump through a whole different set of hoops once they want to export. There's a benefit here too in that this acts as a deterrent for imports which benefits domestic companies, but long-term you're generally better off with a bigger accessible market rather than a small protected one.
There's not enough pressure that Japan actually *has* made its vaccine regulations the same as the EU, and there are a lot of areas where Japan has different standards, even when pretty much the entire rest of the world is using the same standard; This happens partly because Japan has a large domestic market, partly because it's nearest neighbours have historically not been on the same level economically, and partly because people in government don't have the language and cultural skills to work with other countries on a common standard, while Japanese manufacturers are very efficient to work together with the regulators to sort out their own thing. But in Japan right now that's not generally considered to be working out well. The expression you see in the business press is "脱ガラパゴス" ("Datsu-Garapagosu") which means something like "Escaping from the Galapagos Islands".
Bring back B.S./I.S.O. then under a WTO organisation. [Ed. Like this one. How Remoanians can call the 'Single Market' "free-trade" is beyond me: It is a constrained trading agreement within which you have to buy access: Was it designed by certain Sicilians...?
Would she be first Minister if she had not had a miscarriage? She is not sure.
But I don't think she was married at that time.So she avoided having a bastard!
Another cockroach crawls out from under his rock. She married in 2010 and had miscarriage in 2011 Another cretin who should be ashamed.
In that case I take it back!
Very good, it was a silly thing to say in this day and age , if applied it would cover half the population , we are far from Dickens times I am afraid.
I see the Mirror have the Keith Vaz story. Not quite as good as Mark Oaten, but not a bad effort. Now what will Labour say to make today worse for him than it is already?
Finally, the sleazy Vaz's career will be over. Resigning from the Home Affairs Committee today?
Can we call him Keith Vazeline now?
Very good. Man prefers bare back riding.
Why is Vaz being stitched up? Frankly his private life is noone elses business. Where is the public interest in this story?
The fact he heads parliamentary committees on prostitution and drug use?
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
As I pointed out earlier London is the only global City in the UK but there are plenty of big cities in the UK too
London is not a city: It does contain three cities; namely 'The City of London', 'Westminster' and 'Croydon'. London is a metropolitan and urban conurbation: At its largest extent is encompasses places such as St-Albans and Reading. [Sadly!]
Comments
3/8) 55% of Corbyn supporters in the Labour selectorate believe MI5 is working against him https://t.co/pZznqotPot https://t.co/BAA0g742ge
As a renter, I'm thinking of moving out myself - not much point in paying £1300/month to live in a one-bedroom flat above a shop, as I'm now working freelance rather than (as up to recently) at a good salary down the road. Contemplating moving back to the Nottingham area, not for political reasons but because it's massively cheaper and I know lots of people there.
IIRC NickP complained that Crewe and Nantwich hadn't been canvassed for nearly 20 years before the 2008 byelection.
The cases were ultimately dropped.
There is also something rather ironic that it he has been caught out by Romanians again.
You've made angry comments about the metropolitan Remainers since.
Is that because you blame them for the Leave win or has their reaction subsequently changed the mind of Conservative Remainers.
Leavers never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum and whinged and moaned about it for 41 years
On standards, the nearest thing to hand is the new BT Smart Hub I installed last month,
It complies to RETTED 1999/5/EC.
That places three obligations on the manufacturer, one on the member state:
- Electrical safety and electrical interference.
- Publication of physical and electrical interfaces to promote interoperability.
- Disclosure of intended use and limitations thereof.
- Rules on access to RF spectrum (as the RF spectrum is not harmonised EU-wide).
The first two are defined elsewhere and incorporated in RETTED. The third is standard rubric in consumer law pretty much worldwide.
Always nice to have concrete examples of what can otherwise be fairly abstract discussions. I'm sure I'll be able to find a much more complex example later, but for now, it's time to test the leg on a more ambitious walk. Toodle pip!
It is a while since I have read it but I think there was at least a version of the speech in the book.
Not the best day for players of the Keith Vaz game.
10:32 pm - 3 Sep 2016
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/keith-vaz-game-what-trending-8764343
2. Over time - decades if necessary - a party can move from a position of irrelevance to holding a safe seat; the Greens in Brighton being a case in point.
Also, the arts / media leftists of Camden and Islington.
But why did the deprived voters of Inner London vote so strongly Remain - they're not benefitting from London being a super wealthy global city, in fact the contrary - it damages them economically and rubs their faces in inequality.
And a few miles further out the deprived voters of Outer London had the same pattern as those in other English cities.
But the inference - that Brexit is and was the settled view of the country - isn't right. Remain could easily have won on the day with a better and more positive campaign. For practical purposes, 'if's are irrelevant now but triumphant Leavers should recognise that there isn't necessarily a permanent majority for their side.
There's not enough pressure that Japan actually *has* made its vaccine regulations the same as the EU, and there are a lot of areas where Japan has different standards, even when pretty much the entire rest of the world is using the same standard; This happens partly because Japan has a large domestic market, partly because it's nearest neighbours have historically not been on the same level economically, and partly because people in government don't have the language and cultural skills to work with other countries on a common standard, while Japanese manufacturers are very efficient to work together with the regulators to sort out their own thing. But in Japan right now that's not generally considered to be working out well. The expression you see in the business press is "脱ガラパゴス" ("Datsu-Garapagosu") which means something like "Escaping from the Galapagos Islands".
http://www.lbc.co.uk/mayor-approves-affordable-housing-costing-2800-a-month-98118
But isn't there a sizeable estate around the back of Exmouth Market going towards the City?
A driven and successful career woman who put off having children until it turned out to be too late. Tough choices all round. I sympathise.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532062/British-companies-advertise-5-000-jobs-Romania-doors-open-EU-migrant-workers.html#ixzz4JHZx2Byd
** To be fair Mark Reckless was also there as a Tory MP (now UKIP)
Takes me 5 minutes longer to get to work in central London.
The big shock was the difference in quality of public services -buses excepted. Everything in London is overcrowded and stretched to the limit.
And I do enjoy it, though more outside London as the experience of canvassing blocks of flats with zillions of people moved or out is a bit demoralising. Canvassing is a good way of finding out what people are actually preoccupied with, and if you compare with past canvasses of the same people it's usually a good guide (it's a crap guide if you take raw results), though late swings can surprise you.
Also, it's just nice to meet a lot of people interested in politics (the ones who aren't just politely decline to talk).
That referendum was based on a trade agreement between nations emanating from the original trade bloc set up known as Benelux. It was not a referendum on what then transpired over the years into a full political and monetary union . I was 17 when the vote was taken so just missed it. It destroyed the company which I then was working for thereafter as a direct consequence.
Nice try though.
As I said yesterday I am Not arguing about Brexit anymore ....fed up with it as I have been all my life and yet never had a chance to put my view. Right or wrong the Vote was taken and now we move on based this time on what we have now in 2016 not based on what was stated in 1975.
Likewise the Bournemouth-Poole-Christchurch conurbation and the Stoke-NewcastleUL conurbation.
Feel free to check my previous posts leading up to the referendum if that's not accepted.
I said if we vote to remain by 50% +1 then we should engage fully, full free movement and I also stated that we should even join the Euro at earliest opportunity. I though, accept the democratic will of the people right or wrong and would make the best of it which is the difference here.
My last word on this because I am utterly fecking bored of it.
Birmingham, Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle and Nottingham have attributes of both and were 50:50.
Moseley
Ladywood
Selly Oak
Spark brook
Aston
Edgbaston
And 6 more >60% Remain
Gisela Stuart's constituency voted Remain so glad they didn't take the advice of their dim MP.
And as I indicate below Middlesbrough (note spelling) is in fact a town!
Its more of a town within the Teesside conurbation with the others being Stockton, Billingham, Redcar, Hartlepool. and possibly Darlington.
Likewise the Bournemouth-Poole-Christchurch conurbation and the Stoke-NewcastleUL conurbation.
In reply to Another Richard:
Though the Tees runs through Darlington, it is not part of the Teesside conurbation (there's around 10 miles of (largely) countryside to its east before you arrive at Stockton. It functions in some ways as a North Yorkshire market town, even though the Yorkshire border is three miles to its south.
My point in raising the basic error SeanF made about Middlesbrough is that there is a distinct tendency for Brexiteers on this site to opine on the supposed reasons people chose to vote Out in areas they clearly know very little about.
“The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has said—this was a bit of shock for me after 28 years in this House—that Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box having had poppers. I think that is what she said and it was a great surprise to the House. She obviously knows more than I do about such issues”
http://order-order.com/2016/09/04/keith-vaz-told-commons-surprised-mps-used-poppers/
It is clear from the messaging of the new Govt that the next election is going to be run on the basis of UKIP having been extinguished as an electoral force in the South and Midlands by the EU vote.
Let us look at Cornwall, where LDs are getting excited about a few Parish Council results - the LD vote was 66k across 6 seats, but UKIP had 40k across those six seats, and came 3rd in 5 of the seats.
Leave was a MUCH better result for the Tory party than Remain. Which probably accounts for why there was such a backlash against Cammo and Osbo within the party during the campaign. I drafted a resignation letter from the party that I have been a member of almost continuously for nearly half my life. I am glad that I didn't send it.
I might write a piece about it.
:moderators-are-missing:
Drat!! Getting drawn in again. Ok off out !
You can't fool all the people all the time. It took 41 years to catch up but old Abe was right in the end. The EU has signally failed to build solid foundations because it hasn't actually got the will of the people on board. It kept getting round them by stealth and salami slicing. Result Brexit and things like yesterday's monster pro EU demonstration in ( an admittedly very wet) Cardiff ( a city of about 340k people that voted 60% Remain) of a multitudinous 75. 75 ffs! I imagine there were more people queuing at the tills in Primark!
As Hunter S. Thompson probably once said.