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SystemSystem Posts: 12,687
edited August 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Whatever the rights and wrongs of “#Traingate” Corbyn needs a better PR organisation

The afternoon has been dominated by what’s now become #Traingate – how the film of Corbyn having to sit on the floor of a Newcastle-bound Virgin train two weeks ago might not have been all it seemed.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    @WelshGasDoc: Remember when a single still image of awkwardly eating a bacon sandwich was seen as a Public Relations mess?

    Happy days.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/768120235543134208
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Would Russia let us develop our own domestic fertiliser industry? Or partake in manipulative pricing like Saudi has done to oil?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-18/russia-s-fertilizer-tycoon-says-potash-glut-may-last-a-decade
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    I hope we still get that pro Corbyn piece, TSE.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    SeanT said:

    latest traingate press release from Labour

    htts://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/768117352458096640

    The weird thing is that this is also, clearly, a lie - as the CCTV footage shows. It's like they haven't even watched the vids. Bizarre.

    This is a man who can be smeared by quoting him exactly, lest we forget.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    kle4 said:

    I hope we still get that pro Corbyn piece, TSE.

    I'll bring forward my thread on strictly to tomorrow and publish the Corbyn thread on Thursday.

    The piece contains a really good closing paragraph.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,979
    Ha. Branson is good at this PR game! 20% discount for Labour Conference delegates travelling from London to Liverpool.
    http://order-order.com/2016/08/23/virgin-trains-discount-for-labour-party-conference/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    nunu said:

    Would Russia let us develop our own domestic fertiliser industry? Or partake in manipulative pricing like Saudi has done to oil?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-18/russia-s-fertilizer-tycoon-says-potash-glut-may-last-a-decade

    We could send the feckless unemployed onto Scottish islands to collect guano ... ;)
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Harry Cole
    Harriet Harman on #traingate "It is slightly baffling.... I'm really baffled, I don't know what's going on."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,668
    I wonder if the fake Elvis is free for tonights Jezza and Diane rally?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    The problem was he’d used his experience on the trip to make a political point on the ownership of the railways

    Exactly, he was spinning. Perfectly normal behaviour, but he's not supposed to be a 'normal' politician. And those defending the spin on the basis it 'highilghted' a genuine problem would never, ever extend that courtesy to their opponents doing the same.

    It's silly, it's trivial, it won't affect anything long term (though one Tory I know thinks it might). But it didn't need to happen at all.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    SeanT said:

    How hard is it to find this entire family of fifteen people who were "upgraded to First Class" so the exhausted Jeremy could get a seat, seven minutes into his journey?

    A bit harder when they don't exist.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    And on the media bias point, I can believe there is a media bias against Corbyn and co. Unfortunately that doesn't mean they are not crap.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    SeanT said:

    How hard is it to find this entire family of fifteen people who were "upgraded to First Class" so the exhausted Jeremy could get a seat, seven minutes into his journey?

    I'm more interested in finding the Upgrade Fairy who performed this wondrous act.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    How often does Jeremy travel anyway, he must have been on a lot of trains in the past year or so? I use the train perhaps a dozen times a year and seem to know more about them than him (while also not being opposed to nationalisation - that may be because I don't know enough about that, but the key is I'm not intrinsically opposed to Jeremy on this policy)
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Sandpit said:

    Ha. Branson is good at this PR game! 20% discount for Labour Conference delegates travelling from London to Liverpool.
    http://order-order.com/2016/08/23/virgin-trains-discount-for-labour-party-conference/

    Tories get 25% off......
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    PlatoSaid said:

    Harry Cole
    Harriet Harman on #traingate "It is slightly baffling.... I'm really baffled, I don't know what's going on."

    Well the evidence is pretty clear. Nothing baffling at all about it. Corbyn and his team faked a photoshoot and then lied about it. They have been caught out and are continuing to lie.

    Though given Harriet's ability to miss clear evidence in the past, her bafflement should come as no surprise.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    @steamedhamms: Reminder: Seumas Milne is earning £97,000.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    View image on Twitter
    View image on Twitter
    Harry Cole ✔ @MrHarryCole
    So Corbyn finally admit story that he sat on the floor of a train for three hours on way to hustings was not true:
    5:10 PM - 23 Aug 2016
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,668
    Wonder what the Currant Bun headline will be tomorrow?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    John_M said:

    SeanT said:

    How hard is it to find this entire family of fifteen people who were "upgraded to First Class" so the exhausted Jeremy could get a seat, seven minutes into his journey?

    I'm more interested in finding the Upgrade Fairy who performed this wondrous act.
    Homophobic comments about Virgin stewards are nothing new... :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,979
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @steamedhamms: Reminder: Seumas Milne is earning £97,000.

    Er, nope. Seumas Milne *gets paid* £97k a year. Not quite the same.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,668
    https://twitter.com/moorlanddragon/status/768093060848873472
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,896
    Mr. Eagles, maybe the joy of writing articles in advance is giving time for Nemesis and Hubris to get in their retaliation for your planned abuse of Hannibal's name :D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pb is uniquely well-provided for in any discussion about the intersection between trains and politics.

    Let's hope that the thread doesn't get sidetracked.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,668
    Sandpit said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @steamedhamms: Reminder: Seumas Milne is earning £97,000.

    Er, nope. Seumas Milne *gets paid* £97k a year. Not quite the same.
    Its a good job he isn't on performance related pay...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,719
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Pb is uniquely well-provided for in any discussion about the intersection between trains and politics.

    Let's hope that the thread doesn't get sidetracked.

    Derailed, surely? ;)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Pb is uniquely well-provided for in any discussion about the intersection between trains and politics.

    Let's hope that the thread doesn't get sidetracked.

    No chance of this one hitting the buffers!
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @steamedhamms: Reminder: Seumas Milne is earning £97,000.


    earning being paid
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    Tories and 'moderates' wetting their pants over a nothing story whipped up by a biased media.

    There, I've saved any Corbynistas and others the trouble of saying the above and if they want to point out the not in question fact that this is a small matter that won't derail Corbyn all by itself.

    As ever, it's about cumulative effect of these sorts of impressions.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    rcs1000 said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    I think free trade was indeed a good thing (at least for us) when we had exactly the sort of monopoly that you are talking about. The problem is we went from there to here taking along an extremely simplistic concept of comparative advantage on the way. The default assumption of our political class is still informed by this, hence American politicians pushing so hard for unpopular policies like NAFTA and TTIP. I just question whether these default assumptions are indeed good.

    To take your Port Talbot example retaining a steel industry in this country retains a skill base here, it reduces imports, it makes materials more readily available should local producers want a particular product and can be said to support our manufacturing base generally. Is this worth a bit of money?

    The answer is I think unclear for the reasons you state and the knock on effects are somewhat unpredictable but the answers mainstream economics offer us are naïve and uninformative.

    Re Port Talbot. Does it meaningfully reduce imports? You still need to buy coal from abroad and iron ore. In any case, I suspect mini-mills in the UK, attached to cheap CCGTs, are still going to outcompete PT in the medium term.

    But I think the important bit is that there are high labour cost countries that have minimal unemployment, and which have vibrant manufacturing bases.

    They didn't achieve this through protectionism. When you implement protectionism, what you get is industrialists bribing government ministers in return for tariffs for their particular industry. That does not end well.
    Or you get industrialists bribing commissioners to introduce regulatory directives that put you at an advantage vs your smaller competitiors who being smaller are hit much harder by the cost of compliance.
    Could you give me an example?
    I was talking about such (customs) unions in general not necesarily the one I suspect you were referring to.

    However that large and multinationals are the most enthusiastic cheerleaders for regulations that put a large cost between coming up with a product and being allowed to put it on the market is not exactly a revelation.

    They have the economy of scale and in house experts to cope with it whereas medium size and smaller companies are stuffed.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    The reason the bacon sand which eating story and two kitchen story were so damaging for Ed is because it helped to dispel a narrative he was trying to build that he was an ordinary normal guy.

    The reason this will be so damaging because he has built a reputation for being a man with principles but the general electorate will look at this and think " he's like any other politician ".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,668
    edited August 2016
    SeanT said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Harry Cole
    Harriet Harman on #traingate "It is slightly baffling.... I'm really baffled, I don't know what's going on."

    Well the evidence is pretty clear. Nothing baffling at all about it. Corbyn and his team faked a photoshoot and then lied about it. They have been caught out and are continuing to lie.

    Though given Harriet's ability to miss clear evidence in the past, her bafflement should come as no surprise.
    it wasn't entirely fake. There are lots of witnesses saying it was chokka, people were standing. It's just that Corbyn lied about having no seat at the start and now he's compounded the lie with further lies.

    As OGH says, a PR operation with half a brain would have avoided this in the first place, or defused it better when it threatened to blow up.

    Still, it adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    What is even worse from a PR perspective, if he wanted to find an train where everybody was totally squished it wouldn't have been hard.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    foxinsoxuk said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Pb is uniquely well-provided for in any discussion about the intersection between trains and politics.

    Let's hope that the thread doesn't get sidetracked.

    No chance of this one hitting the buffers!
    We could get routed onto the wrong track.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    JosiasJessop said:

    nunu said:

    Would Russia let us develop our own domestic fertiliser industry? Or partake in manipulative pricing like Saudi has done to oil?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-18/russia-s-fertilizer-tycoon-says-potash-glut-may-last-a-decade

    We could send the feckless unemployed onto Scottish islands to collect guano ... ;)
    Trouble is nimby's make it hard to develop any sort of rural economy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Well so long as the selectorate votes for Al Jezza it is all well and good by me.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    SeanT said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Harry Cole
    Harriet Harman on #traingate "It is slightly baffling.... I'm really baffled, I don't know what's going on."

    Well the evidence is pretty clear. Nothing baffling at all about it. Corbyn and his team faked a photoshoot and then lied about it. They have been caught out and are continuing to lie.

    Though given Harriet's ability to miss clear evidence in the past, her bafflement should come as no surprise.
    it wasn't entirely fake. There are lots of witnesses saying it was chokka, people were standing. It's just that Corbyn lied about having no seat at the start and now he's compounded the lie with further lies.

    As OGH says, a PR operation with half a brain would have avoided this in the first place, or defused it better when it threatened to blow up.

    Still, it adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    With all the #TrainGate kafuffle – has anyone bothered to ask Corbyn why he and his entourage didn’t bother to reserve seats if (a) they all wanted to sit together, (b) knew finding several seats free might be a problem? - And yes, it's all tremendous silly season fun....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SeanT said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Harry Cole
    Harriet Harman on #traingate "It is slightly baffling.... I'm really baffled, I don't know what's going on."

    Well the evidence is pretty clear. Nothing baffling at all about it. Corbyn and his team faked a photoshoot and then lied about it. They have been caught out and are continuing to lie.

    Though given Harriet's ability to miss clear evidence in the past, her bafflement should come as no surprise.
    it wasn't entirely fake. There are lots of witnesses saying it was chokka, people were standing. It's just that Corbyn lied about having no seat at the start and now he's compounded the lie with further lies.

    As OGH says, a PR operation with half a brain would have avoided this in the first place, or defused it better when it threatened to blow up.

    Still, it adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    What is even worse from a PR perspective, if he wanted to find an train where everybody was totally squished it wouldn't have been hard.
    Which is why it might backfire if people crucify Corbyn for it. Yes it was a stunt, but he was highlighting an issue a lot of people have sympathy for.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    edited August 2016
    nunu said:

    The reason the bacon sand which eating story and two kitchen story were so damaging for Ed is because it helped to dispel a narrative he was trying to build that he was an ordinary normal guy.

    The reason this will be so damaging because he has built a reputation for being a man with principles but the general electorate will look at this and think " he's like any other politician ".

    Trouble is while I think he is just like any other politician in most respects, this is the first really incontestable evidence of it (plenty of other evidence is contested, whereas his defence here involves making more of it than was the case, therefore being incontestable that he is like any of them), so it will take a lot more before his appeal as the anti-politician were to fade I suspect.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,810
    edited August 2016
    BBC1 6pm News: Corbyn is the 2nd headline:

    "CCTV appears to contradict his story"

    Could this cost him the leadership?

    Seems laughable but if his integrity is badly damaged then it could snowball - who knows?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    MikeL said:

    BBC1 6pm News: Corbyn is the 2nd headline:

    "CCTV appears to contradict his story"

    Could this cost him the leadership?

    Seems laughable but if his integrity is badly damaged then it could snowball - who knows?

    Smith winning will lead to Momentum taking to the streets - and everything that their revolution entails will start to happen.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    MikeL said:

    BBC1 6pm News: Corbyn is the 2nd headline:

    "CCTV appears to contradict his story"

    Could this cost him the leadership?

    Seems laughable but if his integrity is badly damaged then it could snowball - who knows?

    No. The true believers reject the media and all its foul whorish works.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited August 2016
    FPT

    @rcs1000
    rcs1000 said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:



    Or you get industrialists bribing commissioners to introduce regulatory directives that put you at an advantage vs your smaller competitiors who being smaller are hit much harder by the cost of compliance.

    Could you give me an example?
    I was talking about such practices in general worldwide not necessarily in the organisation that I suspect you assumed *I was referring to (plenty of supranational organisations have similar functions such as the CIS in the former USSR, the African Union or even the federal government in the USA)

    However that large and multinationals are the most enthusiastic cheerleaders and lobbyers for regulations that put a large cost between coming up with a product and being allowed to put it on the market (or that maintain a legislative monopoly by extending copyright lockout periods from 25 years after the authors death to 75 years etc.) is not exactly a revelation (especially where those regulations operate on the precautionary principle and require you to prove a negative.

    They have the economy of scale and in house experts to cope with it whereas medium size and smaller companies are stuffed and often have to withdraw a cheap product that has been sold for years or decades because the sales won't justify the cost of the new regulatory test, leaving the field clear for multinationals to sell a much more expensive and sometimes inferior product.

    The result is highly paid jobs all round for bureaucrats and inefficient multinational monopolies (who are very good at avoiding coporation tax in a country) and a worsening of the economy as entrepreneurs and efficient small businesses that would be paying coporation tax to the national government are throttled.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    williamglenn said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SeanT said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Harry Cole
    Harriet Harman on #traingate "It is slightly baffling.... I'm really baffled, I don't know what's going on."

    Well the evidence is pretty clear. Nothing baffling at all about it. Corbyn and his team faked a photoshoot and then lied about it. They have been caught out and are continuing to lie.

    Though given Harriet's ability to miss clear evidence in the past, her bafflement should come as no surprise.
    it wasn't entirely fake. There are lots of witnesses saying it was chokka, people were standing. It's just that Corbyn lied about having no seat at the start and now he's compounded the lie with further lies.

    As OGH says, a PR operation with half a brain would have avoided this in the first place, or defused it better when it threatened to blow up.

    Still, it adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    What is even worse from a PR perspective, if he wanted to find an train where everybody was totally squished it wouldn't have been hard.
    Which is why it might backfire if people crucify Corbyn for it. Yes it was a stunt, but he was highlighting an issue a lot of people have sympathy for.
    I agree people making too much of it will be disappointed, but in fairness he made a big deal of it, his people made a big deal of it, he claims to be different, to be authentic, and it was heavily spun in order to make a point. How can he and his supporters criticise others for being less than entirely truthful in order to make a point for the greater good when he does it too.

    Because there is no way they won't criticise opponents for doing the same thing, even if those opponents do not so openly claim the righteousness of not doing that sort of thing, as he does.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,668
    The disciples of crobyn will reject this latest media smear...there is nothing the Messiah can do wrong.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    The events today are exactly why I predicted an Owen Smith victory, tho of course they are both crap.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,228
    Since when has Bedford been on the East Coast Main Line?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The disciples of crobyn will reject this latest media smear...there is nothing the Messiah can do wrong.

    Hey JC, JC. Take this seat from me. Sanna Hosanna. Hey Superstar

    (apologies to Tim Rice)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    edited August 2016
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    They have the economy of scale and in house experts to cope with it whereas medium size and smaller companies are stuffed and often have to withdraw a cheap product that has been sold for years or decades because the sales won't justify the cost of the new regulatory test, leaving the field clear for multinationals to sell a much more expensive and sometimes inferior product.

    It can't be hard to name a specific example of this happening then?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,765
    This is ridiculous. Why don't they just come clean.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Has Branson's tweet violated the DPA ?

    https://twitter.com/richardbranson/status/768070742135152640

    Not Corbyn specifically, 4 'other' faces clearly identifiable from the CCTV
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,228
    williamglenn said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SeanT said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Harry Cole
    Harriet Harman on #traingate "It is slightly baffling.... I'm really baffled, I don't know what's going on."

    Well the evidence is pretty clear. Nothing baffling at all about it. Corbyn and his team faked a photoshoot and then lied about it. They have been caught out and are continuing to lie.

    Though given Harriet's ability to miss clear evidence in the past, her bafflement should come as no surprise.
    it wasn't entirely fake. There are lots of witnesses saying it was chokka, people were standing. It's just that Corbyn lied about having no seat at the start and now he's compounded the lie with further lies.

    As OGH says, a PR operation with half a brain would have avoided this in the first place, or defused it better when it threatened to blow up.

    Still, it adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    What is even worse from a PR perspective, if he wanted to find an train where everybody was totally squished it wouldn't have been hard.
    Which is why it might backfire if people crucify Corbyn for it. Yes it was a stunt, but he was highlighting an issue a lot of people have sympathy for.
    But he could have highlighted the plight of commuters on packed trains in the rush hour. The problem, I would suggest, is that he can't bring himself with the sorts of people using such services - i.e. Tory scum.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    tlg86 said:

    Since when has Bedford been on the East Coast Main Line?

    After global warming makes Cambourne and St Neots coastal. ;)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,228
    Pulpstar said:

    Has Branson's tweet violated the DPA ?

    https://twitter.com/richardbranson/status/768070742135152640

    Not Corbyn specifically, 4 'other' faces clearly identifiable from the CCTV

    By that logic, the Sunday Express violated my rights when they published this picture:

    http://tinyurl.com/hahzt3d
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    To be fair to Corbyn he called for a "kinder, gentler politics", not more truthful politics...
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    brokenwheel said:

    To be fair to Corbyn he called for a "kinder, gentler politics", not more truthful politics...

    He is almost the epitome of the post-factual era.

    My Facebook feed is being filled by my local Momentum fan girl claiming this is all a media smear.

    Don't you just love the predictability of them?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    brokenwheel said:

    To be fair to Corbyn he called for a "kinder, gentler politics", not more truthful politics...

    And then he allowed Momentum to flourish...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Branson had a meeting with Theresa May in July to push for a second referendum. One good turn deserves another.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,228
    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Branson probably holds Jezza responsible for Leave winning the referendum. :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    oxfordsimon said:

    brokenwheel said:

    To be fair to Corbyn he called for a "kinder, gentler politics", not more truthful politics...

    And then he allowed Momentum to flourish...
    Achieving true socialism* is kinder to everyone in the end. That's why everything goes up to then.

    For socialism you can substitute with ideology of your choosing if you like.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Major political figure attempts to tarnish major household brand – Virgin CCTV the winner.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    edited August 2016
    SeanT said:

    How hard is it to find this entire family of fifteen people who were "upgraded to First Class" so the exhausted Jeremy could get a seat, seven minutes into his journey?

    Imagine you are the guy checking the tickets and you find the Leader of the Opposition on the floor of your train trying to pull a cheap stunt against your employer. You would move anyone to first class just to make the whole thing go away. You're not a PR professional, unlike, supposedly, Mr Corbyn.

    Very manipulative as well as dishonest.

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    nunu said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    nunu said:

    Would Russia let us develop our own domestic fertiliser industry? Or partake in manipulative pricing like Saudi has done to oil?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-18/russia-s-fertilizer-tycoon-says-potash-glut-may-last-a-decade

    We could send the feckless unemployed onto Scottish islands to collect guano ... ;)
    Trouble is nimby's make it hard to develop any sort of rural economy.
    By using the term nimby you expose yourself as an okiseby.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,979
    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    PR stuff usually involves the top execs very quickly, whether it be good or bad PR. Today's story being from Branson himself (rather than a generic VT PR/media account) also adds a lot of credibility to it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    edited August 2016
    Ho ho ho

    A senior Ukip figure has accused the party's only MP of helping the Conservatives defeat Nigel Farage during the General Election.

    A company belonging Arron Banks, Ukip's biggest donor, has written to Kent Police alleging that Douglas Carswell, the party's MP for Clacton, helped the Tory campaign.

    Precision Risk & Intelligence claims that Mr Carswell downloaded Ukip polling data for the South Thanet seat in Kent and passed it to the Conservatives, who allegedly used it during the campaign.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/senior-ukip-figure-accuses-partys-only-mp-of-helping-the-conserv/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    PR stuff usually involves the top execs very quickly, whether it be good or bad PR.
    I suppose that's true. Senior people blundering in can also be a problem of course.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Really? A senior political figure is trying to trash your company's reputation, if that is not worthy of the CEO's attention WTF is?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,765
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TelegraphNews/status/768138057665032192

    Ferrets meet sack.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    htps://twitter.com/TelegraphNews/status/768138057665032192

    UKIP, you remain an inspiration.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    If there's one thing that really annoys the hell out of me, people putting 'Without prejudice' on their fecking letters
  • TW1R64TW1R64 Posts: 56
    williamglenn said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Branson had a meeting with Theresa May in July to push for a second referendum. One good turn deserves another.
    May must have sent him away with a flea in his ear.
    This does her no favours.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    HurstLlama said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Really? A senior political figure is trying to trash your company's reputation, if that is not worthy of the CEO's attention WTF is?
    He has many companies and it was a general point about all train companies really, I'm surprised he bothered given its not as though COrbyn's supporters will believe it and everyone else already found Corbyn hilarious.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    If there's one thing that really annoys the hell out of me, people putting 'Without prejudice' on their fecking letters

    From a lawyer I find that an astonishing statement. I hope your employers don't see it as it might not be career enhancing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,320
    I haven't really followed this. He knew he was traveling, didn't book a seat, there were unreserved seats available, so he sat on the floor then ended up in Coach H.

    That it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,668
    edited August 2016
    kle4 said:

    HurstLlama said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Really? A senior political figure is trying to trash your company's reputation, if that is not worthy of the CEO's attention WTF is?
    He has many companies and it was a general point about all train companies really, I'm surprised he bothered given its not as though COrbyn's supporters will believe it and everyone else already found Corbyn hilarious.
    He doesn't own (or has a controlling interest in) as many as you think. Lots are just using his virgin brand man ala trump eg virgin media....despite using his face a lot on the advertising.

    In fact how much does he own of virgin trains these days?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    williamglenn said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Branson had a meeting with Theresa May in July to push for a second referendum. One good turn deserves another.
    Smith wants a second referendum therefore I suspect Branson wants Smith to win.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    TW1R64 said:

    williamglenn said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Branson had a meeting with Theresa May in July to push for a second referendum. One good turn deserves another.
    May must have sent him away with a flea in his ear.
    This does her no favours.
    There is no way this blows back on her at all, and it doesn't matter that much if Corbyn wins or not so long as Labour are in chaos, so it certainly does no harm.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    kle4 said:

    HurstLlama said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Really? A senior political figure is trying to trash your company's reputation, if that is not worthy of the CEO's attention WTF is?
    He has many companies and it was a general point about all train companies really, I'm surprised he bothered given its not as though COrbyn's supporters will believe it and everyone else already found Corbyn hilarious.
    He doesn't own (or has a controlling interest in) as many as you think. Lots are just using his virgin brand man ala trump eg virgin media....despite using his face a lot on the advertising.
    I believe Virgin Wines is independently owned.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has Branson's tweet violated the DPA ?

    https://twitter.com/richardbranson/status/768070742135152640

    Not Corbyn specifically, 4 'other' faces clearly identifiable from the CCTV

    By that logic, the Sunday Express violated my rights when they published this picture:

    http://tinyurl.com/hahzt3d
    Cctv and press photos different rules I think ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,320
    MP_SE said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    kle4 said:

    HurstLlama said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Really? A senior political figure is trying to trash your company's reputation, if that is not worthy of the CEO's attention WTF is?
    He has many companies and it was a general point about all train companies really, I'm surprised he bothered given its not as though COrbyn's supporters will believe it and everyone else already found Corbyn hilarious.
    He doesn't own (or has a controlling interest in) as many as you think. Lots are just using his virgin brand man ala trump eg virgin media....despite using his face a lot on the advertising.
    I believe Virgin Wines is independently owned.
    Part of the Laithwaites Group I think.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,784
    brokenwheel said:

    To be fair to Corbyn he called for a "kinder, gentler politics", not more truthful politics...

    What does caling for "straight forward honest politics" mean then other than being truthful rather than practicing deception?

  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    kle4 said:

    HurstLlama said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Really? A senior political figure is trying to trash your company's reputation, if that is not worthy of the CEO's attention WTF is?
    He has many companies and it was a general point about all train companies really, I'm surprised he bothered given its not as though COrbyn's supporters will believe it and everyone else already found Corbyn hilarious.
    He doesn't own (or has a controlling interest in) as many as you think. Lots are just using his virgin brand man ala trump eg virgin media....despite using his face a lot on the advertising.

    In fact how much does he own of virgin trains these days?
    10% of East Coast I think.

    Virgin appears to be to Stagecoach what Sainsburys is to British Gas.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,991
    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    How hard is it to find this entire family of fifteen people who were "upgraded to First Class" so the exhausted Jeremy could get a seat, seven minutes into his journey?

    Imagine you are the guy checking the tickets and you find the Leader of the Opposition on the floor of your train trying to pull a cheap stunt against your employer. You would move anyone to first class just to make the whole thing go away. You're not a PR professional, unlike, supposedly, Mr Corbyn.

    Very manipulative as well as dishonest.

    Would have to give that 'guy/gal checking tickets' a gold star for recognising the LotO amongst a sea of faces.

    I once recognised John Smith on the concourse at York station but only because he was strutting along as one who knew himself a Very Important Person Indeed with a host of acolytes scurrying around him.

    (Good evening, everyone, and what a come-down: from the Olympics, to this story. Silly season in full flow.)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    I seem to recall a train journey giving Osborne a spot of PR bother. Entertaining though this sort of thing is, the net political effect is probably zero.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,320
    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    brokenwheel said:

    To be fair to Corbyn he called for a "kinder, gentler politics", not more truthful politics...

    What does caling for "straight forward honest politics" mean then other than being truthful rather than practicing deception?

    I think the need to make his political point transcended the need to observe the facts on the ground.

    Doubly inept as he could have made the point a thousand other ways.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,320
    AnneJGP said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    How hard is it to find this entire family of fifteen people who were "upgraded to First Class" so the exhausted Jeremy could get a seat, seven minutes into his journey?

    Imagine you are the guy checking the tickets and you find the Leader of the Opposition on the floor of your train trying to pull a cheap stunt against your employer. You would move anyone to first class just to make the whole thing go away. You're not a PR professional, unlike, supposedly, Mr Corbyn.

    Very manipulative as well as dishonest.

    Would have to give that 'guy/gal checking tickets' a gold star for recognising the LotO amongst a sea of faces.

    I once recognised John Smith on the concourse at York station but only because he was strutting along as one who knew himself a Very Important Person Indeed with a host of acolytes scurrying around him.

    (Good evening, everyone, and what a come-down: from the Olympics, to this story. Silly season in full flow.)
    One day on the very same East Coast line I found myself sitting opposite Mr Yvette Cooper en famille. Seemed a tremendously nice bloke.

    Oh Ed...where are you now your Party needs you?? Doing a paso doble in Blackpool , that's where.

    O tempora o mores.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,949
    edited August 2016
    #Traingate looks like an outrageous stitch-up from the billionaire owner of a multinational corporation with an agenda (preventing renationalization of trains and ignoring Brexit) to me.

    Stick to your guns Jezza!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    brokenwheel said:

    To be fair to Corbyn he called for a "kinder, gentler politics", not more truthful politics...

    What does caling for "straight forward honest politics" mean then other than being truthful rather than practicing deception?

    He speaks the truth of the soul.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2016
    williamglenn said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    They have the economy of scale and in house experts to cope with it whereas medium size and smaller companies are stuffed and often have to withdraw a cheap product that has been sold for years or decades because the sales won't justify the cost of the new regulatory test, leaving the field clear for multinationals to sell a much more expensive and sometimes inferior product.

    It can't be hard to name a specific example of this happening then?
    Herbal medicines.

    They don't work more than placebo but consumers like them. The big pharma with their switch Cx businesses didn't...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    GIN1138 said:

    #Traingate looks like an outrageous stitch-up from the billionaire owner of a multinational corporation with an agenda (preventing renationalization of trains and ignoring Brexit) to me.

    Stick to your guns Jezza!

    I don't understand the logic. Buying Corbyn's explanation or not, and whatever the motivations of Branson and the rights or wrongs of releasing the footage, Corbyn's initial presentation of the situation was, at its most generous, misleading.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    brokenwheel said:

    To be fair to Corbyn he called for a "kinder, gentler politics", not more truthful politics...

    What does caling for "straight forward honest politics" mean then other than being truthful rather than practicing deception?

    In case it wasn't clear, i wasn't being wholely truthful with my comment...

    Jezza would approve.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,979
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I seem to recall a train journey giving Osborne a spot of PR bother. Entertaining though this sort of thing is, the net political effect is probably zero.

    That was a bollocks media story, based on envy. Of course the Chancellor of the Exchequer and his red box should sit in first class on the train.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,228
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    kle4 said:

    HurstLlama said:

    kle4 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Branson knows how to time this! Olympics over, and ballots went out yesterday as I recall.

    Why else hold onto it for 12 days? I am sure the tapes were reviewed immediately after the first story.

    Post truth politics now apply. It does not matter what the truth is anymore, and any attempt to dispute it just gives the story legs. Branson is a master of PR, Jezza gets the wooden spoon.

    I'm a little amazed this went up the chain all the way to Branson at all.
    Really? A senior political figure is trying to trash your company's reputation, if that is not worthy of the CEO's attention WTF is?
    He has many companies and it was a general point about all train companies really, I'm surprised he bothered given its not as though COrbyn's supporters will believe it and everyone else already found Corbyn hilarious.
    He doesn't own (or has a controlling interest in) as many as you think. Lots are just using his virgin brand man ala trump eg virgin media....despite using his face a lot on the advertising.

    In fact how much does he own of virgin trains these days?
    10% of East Coast I think.

    Virgin appears to be to Stagecoach what Sainsburys is to British Gas.
    That's right. Stagecoach own 90% of VTEC and I think 49% of VTWC.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2016
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I seem to recall a train journey giving Osborne a spot of PR bother. Entertaining though this sort of thing is, the net political effect is probably zero.

    IIRC, Osborne caught an earlier train than the one he’d booked seats on and paid the upgrade. That little morsel kept the media happily fed for days and it wasn’t even the silly season. But I agree, this will have zero effect on Corbyn's chances of remaining leader.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37164960
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,949
    Also, what's the legal/privacy implications of Virgin making this CCTV public?

    I always thought there were rather strict legal restrictions on the way CCTV can be used Viz a Viz people's privacy?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,286
    NBC national Clinton 43 Trump 38 Johnson 11 Stein 5
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-faces-hurdle-minority-voters-clinton-maintains-lead-poll-shows-n636061

    Virginia Raonoke Clinton 48 Trump 32 Johnson 8 Stein 3
    http://www.roanoke.edu/about/news/rc_poll_aug_2016_politics

    Missouri Monmouth Trump 44 Clinton 43 Johnson 8
    http://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_MO_082316/

    Utah PPP Trump 39 Clinton 24 Johnson 12 Stein 1
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_UT_82316.pdf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Sir Anthony Jay, co-writer of Yes Minister had sadly died.
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