I haven't advocated a coronation, I wish the party members get a vote.
However we're at the point we're whomever finishes second is only supported by less than the third of the parliamentary party, as IDS and Corbyn can attest, that's a horrible place to be in
It's called democracy. Would either Heath or Thatcher have been deposed had the party membership of the time had a say ? We don't know.
IDS getting to the front two was anti-Portillo tactical voting, you know that and I know that. Had all three candidates gone to the membership, would IDS have won ? Probably not.
The circumstances of each election are different and each party has its own rules. At least you recognise the membership should have a say - why they shouldn't have five candidates to choose from rather than two (and use AV) isn't for me to say.
Democracy cuts both ways - it's up to the elected leader and the MPs to work together or, if that proves impossible, for the system to allow a challenge or a No Confidence vote. Labour's labyrinthine system causes its problem - at least with the Conservatives, the MPs can throw out a leader however popular said leader is with the membership (I mean you did it three times in thirty years so you've had plenty of practice).
"Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations. In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."
So, to be clear, those people (mainly hard-core Leavers) criticising Theresa May and Philip Hammond for making the sensible point that the residence status of EU citizens will depend on the outcome of the outcome of the negotiation are saying that a Romanian who has been here four months and is now working in a hand car-wash has acquired a lifetime right to live here? And that that should remain true even if our EU friends don't extend the same courtesy to Brits living in their countries? Have I got this interpretation of 'getting control of our borders' correct?
Not sure about him, but I disagree with the u-turn. If I was a Brit living in France or Spain, I would be furious at such a cavalier and unnecessary depletion of our negotiating arsenal.
Haven't read the article. Has she turned? It appears all she's done is say they'll be part of the negotiation.
Ah same here neither have I. If that's the case then that's fine.
Would be a very early u-turn for a PM in waiting..
I so wanted the first one out to be Gove. It would have felt positively cathartic to see him broken, humiliated and reviled.
It would also have given him a dim sense of how he made teachers feel every day for four horrendous years.
What - even in the long holidays they get?
You mean the long holidays where we are working 50 hour weeks trying to get the new exam specs ready, somewhat complicated by the fact that the new textbooks to support them don't come out until December? Those long holidays?
John Craig just gave what I think was the worst piece of political insight I've ever seen on Sky News. Pretty much said it was now between May and Leadsom and the others didn't have a chance. Has he ever watched a Tory Leadership election?
I so wanted the first one out to be Gove. It would have felt positively cathartic to see him broken, humiliated and reviled.
It would also have given him a dim sense of how he made teachers feel every day for four horrendous years.
What - even in the long holidays they get?
You mean the long holidays where we are working 50 hour weeks trying to get the new exam specs ready, somewhat complicated by the fact that the new textbooks to support them don't come out until December? Those long holidays?
@Topping Yep - I realise this potentially needs to be part of hardball negotiations with the EU it doesn't need to be broadcast in a way to make EU nationals here feel unwanted.
John Craig just gave what I think was the worst piece of political insight I've ever seen on Sky News. Pretty much said it was now between May and Leadsom and the others didn't have a chance. Has he ever watched a Tory Leadership election?
Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.
yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.
Corbyn guarantees a Tory government whoever they choose.
The EU referendum shows that sometimes people vote against the status quo, even if the alternative is worse.
Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.
yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.
Corbyn guarantees a Tory government whoever they choose.
No, he guarantees a non-Corbyn government. With politics shooting through the rapids right now, the Conservatives would be unwise to proceed on the basis that they will remain the only alternative to a Corbyn-led Labour.
Hmm. My guess would be a bigger Tory majority at the next GE as they'll pick up plenty of current marginals.
“I want to be able to guarantee the legal status of EU nationals who are living in the UK, and I am confident we will be able to do that,” she said.
“But we must also win the same rights for British nationals living in European countries, and it will be an early negotiating objective for the Government to achieve those things together.”
I so wanted the first one out to be Gove. It would have felt positively cathartic to see him broken, humiliated and reviled.
It would also have given him a dim sense of how he made teachers feel every day for four horrendous years.
What - even in the long holidays they get?
You mean the long holidays where we are working 50 hour weeks trying to get the new exam specs ready, somewhat complicated by the fact that the new textbooks to support them don't come out until December? Those long holidays?
Sounds like a one off event?
For last year (A level) this year (GCSE year one) and next year (GCSE year two)? Bit more than a one off, unfortunately.
And if I were in an LEA school, add the new KS3 National Curriculum to the year before. As it happened, I replanned mine anyway, but knowing what I'm doing (unlike Gove) I made a good job of it.
One of the lessons of the EU Ref is that if you don't play with a straight bat you get bowled out.
Theresa May's supporters had better be very very careful here or they're going to be in the same predicament. If she's going to win she needs to do it by playing cricket.
When you read through the threads of the popular newspapers, nobody has a good word to say about Theresa May.
The more dismissive they are, the more up voted.
Just sayin'
Choosing May would be a massive error by the Tories. She's Britain's Hillary.
Whoever wins is going to have the most awful premiership. Years bogged down in Brexit nonsense, economy in emergency ward 10, slashing public spending, angry voters when migration remains stubbornly high etc etc. This has to be the biggest poison chalice handed over in decades.
No wonder Boris thought he'd let someone else clear up his own mess - just like the good old Bullingdon days.
Suggests he's more likely to switch to Gove rather than Leadsom.
It’s a plug for May or Gove IMHO - and a poke in the eye for Leadsom.
Anyone seen odds on Gove making the final two?
You can back it by proxy with 29.0 on the outright (Betfair)
Did see that one, looks good. I backed him at 8 a couple of weeks ago, seems sensible to top up a little at 29 on the basis it will come in somewhat if he's in the members' ballot.
“I want to be able to guarantee the legal status of EU nationals who are living in the UK, and I am confident we will be able to do that,” she said.
“But we must also win the same rights for British nationals living in European countries, and it will be an early negotiating objective for the Government to achieve those things together.”
One of the lessons of the EU Ref is that if you don't play with a straight bat you get bowled out.
Theresa May's supporters had better be very very careful here or they're going to be in the same predicament. If she's going to win she needs to do it by playing cricket.
I am still at the crease, though the bowling has been pretty hostile of late. And in case anyone doubted it, can I assure you there will be no ducking the bouncers, no stonewalling, no playing for time. The bowling's going to get hit all round the ground. That is my style.
- M. H. Thatcher, at the Lord Mayor's Banquet at Guildhall, 12 November 1990.
"We're leaving Downing Street for the last time after six wonderful years, and we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very much more divided, polarised state than when we came here six years ago."
We know every political life ends in failure. But few could exceed Cameron's miserable legacy at leaving Britain so right royally funked. Even Major's 1997 humiliation is looking miraculous by comparison, never mind Eden's hasty departure.
I feel sorry for Cameron but at the same time it was his decision to gamble everything on the outcome of one single event.
"We're leaving Downing Street for the last time after six wonderful years, and we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very much more divided, polarised state than when we came here six years ago."
We know every political life ends in failure. But few could exceed Cameron's miserable legacy at leaving Britain so right royally funked. Even Major's 1997 humiliation is looking miraculous by comparison, never mind Eden's hasty departure.
I feel sorry for Cameron but at the same time it was his decision to gamble everything on the outcome of one single event.
Yep - he is the man who bears the main responsibility for Brexit.
"We're leaving Downing Street for the last time after six wonderful years, and we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very much more divided, polarised state than when we came here six years ago."
We know every political life ends in failure. But few could exceed Cameron's miserable legacy at leaving Britain so right royally funked. Even Major's 1997 humiliation is looking miraculous by comparison, never mind Eden's hasty departure.
Gordon Brown has the best reputation of all C21 PMs.
"We're leaving Downing Street for the last time after six wonderful years, and we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very much more divided, polarised state than when we came here six years ago."
We know every political life ends in failure. But few could exceed Cameron's miserable legacy at leaving Britain so right royally funked. Even Major's 1997 humiliation is looking miraculous by comparison, never mind Eden's hasty departure.
I feel sorry for Cameron but at the same time it was his decision to gamble everything on the outcome of one single event.
I felt sorry for Cameron...but then I have been asked repeatedly by my Italian and European friends why did the UK put this to a plebiscite?
“I want to be able to guarantee the legal status of EU nationals who are living in the UK, and I am confident we will be able to do that,” she said.
“But we must also win the same rights for British nationals living in European countries, and it will be an early negotiating objective for the Government to achieve those things together.”
I'd put a link between the M23 and A23 half way along the nine miles, if only to allow traffic to keep moving slowly when there's a big accident on the motorway. I used to live on the M3 corridor, and I'll guess that during my time in the sandpit the traffic on the M25 between the M40 and M23 hasn't got any better!
Hyperloop is of course wishful thinking, for a large number of reasons, but we used to do stuff like that in the UK and should be supporting and developing new technology where possible.
Are we still expecting the runway announcement this week?
Mrt. Pit, I drove South down the M23 from the M25 the Sunday before last and the Northbound traffic was stationary from the M25 to Gatwick. No idea why, the M25 at that section was flowing freely and traffic was light. A nightmare for the people trying to get to Heathrow to catch a connection.
However, imagine the cost of putting in a link between the M25 and the A23 at the four and a half mile mark. It would be used not very much and it would cut across the most expensive, non-urban, real estate in the Country. to say nothing of the engineering problems (lots of downland at about that point. It could be done but not please at taxpayer expense.
Now an elevated Hyperloop train system between Gatwick and Heathrow I could see, provided again that the Taxpayer was kept out of it and the respective airport companies paid up.
As to the decision on where a new runway will be built I read in the Telegraph that it has been put back to the autumn.
"We're leaving Downing Street for the last time after six wonderful years, and we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very much more divided, polarised state than when we came here six years ago."
We know every political life ends in failure. But few could exceed Cameron's miserable legacy at leaving Britain so right royally funked. Even Major's 1997 humiliation is looking miraculous by comparison, never mind Eden's hasty departure.
I feel sorry for Cameron but at the same time it was his decision to gamble everything on the outcome of one single event.
Yes. I still think the gamble on the Scotland vote gave him confidence that he'd win the Brexit vote too. He got over-confident.
"We're leaving Downing Street for the last time after six wonderful years, and we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very much more divided, polarised state than when we came here six years ago."
We know every political life ends in failure. But few could exceed Cameron's miserable legacy at leaving Britain so right royally funked. Even Major's 1997 humiliation is looking miraculous by comparison, never mind Eden's hasty departure.
I feel sorry for Cameron but at the same time it was his decision to gamble everything on the outcome of one single event.
I felt sorry for Cameron...but then I have been asked repeatedly by my Italian and European friends why did the UK put this to a plebiscite?
Because it lanced one boil (oh the irony) that had been eating away at the Conservative Party for ages. Because 4m voters and a very persuasive pressure group wanted it and that's how politics works. (Because he wouldn't have won the GE2015 without it.) Because the EU has become unrecognisable from the organisation that we voted, via referendum, to join in 1975.
None of which IMO makes Dave a failure for offering it in the first place.
Of course the voters got it badly wrong and Dave was out the door, for any number of reasons well-rehearsed on here, but them's the facts as I see 'em.
Suggests he's more likely to switch to Gove rather than Leadsom.
It’s a plug for May or Gove IMHO - and a poke in the eye for Leadsom.
Anyone seen odds on Gove making the final two?
May/Gove forecast is 4.2 with Betfair.
That's what I was looking for, thanks. On for an Ayrton.
More clicks than necessary to find some of these markets. Grr...
May has to come first - but that's in the bag.
One hopes so. The money on next leader and PM markets was made over the past year in laying Osborne and Johnson - as tipped here many times above and below the line.
Now an elevated Hyperloop train system between Gatwick and Heathrow I could see, provided again that the Taxpayer was kept out of it and the respective airport companies paid up.
For what purpose? Two separate airports will never be viable as a hub.
“I want to be able to guarantee the legal status of EU nationals who are living in the UK, and I am confident we will be able to do that,” she said.
“But we must also win the same rights for British nationals living in European countries, and it will be an early negotiating objective for the Government to achieve those things together.”
So, 199 Tory MP's are remain. Add to that the Labour Party, the LD's, Gibraltar, the Nats, the entire House of Lords and Delia Smith.
And the leading Tory Brexiters- Leadsom and Johnson didn't believe in it.
I just don't get how this all went so horribly wrong.
Because the Remain Campaign was utterly dire, and completely ill-suited to the current public mood.
Remain's message was "you've never had it so good, don't take the risk of economic chaos". On the contrary, many people in the real world feel they've never had it so BAD, and in many cases actually welcomed the prospect of blowing up the current economy, because whatever replaced it couldn't possibly be worse than the status quo.
Whether it matters or not, I am inclined to think Theresa did lend some votes to Gove. It's convenient that she got 165 votes - just a majority.
If she's crafty she will have lent a few to Leadsom too and call some back for next time. Last thing Leadsom needs is to get the same or fewer votes in R2.
Comments
May is a 75% chance to beat Leadsom.
May is a 99% chance to beat Gove.
Hence May supporters need to get Gove into the Final.
IDS getting to the front two was anti-Portillo tactical voting, you know that and I know that. Had all three candidates gone to the membership, would IDS have won ? Probably not.
The circumstances of each election are different and each party has its own rules. At least you recognise the membership should have a say - why they shouldn't have five candidates to choose from rather than two (and use AV) isn't for me to say.
Democracy cuts both ways - it's up to the elected leader and the MPs to work together or, if that proves impossible, for the system to allow a challenge or a No Confidence vote. Labour's labyrinthine system causes its problem - at least with the Conservatives, the MPs can throw out a leader however popular said leader is with the membership (I mean you did it three times in thirty years so you've had plenty of practice).
Surely Thatcher II will be more popular with the membership?
https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/750389819902160901
Would be a very early u-turn for a PM in waiting..
Just not on myself.
Thanks for the acknowledgement.
Corbyn won't read Chilcott himself.
He'll get someone literate to read it for him.
She may not be far off her potential high water mark.
“But we must also win the same rights for British nationals living in European countries, and it will be an early negotiating objective for the Government to achieve those things together.”
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-exclusive-theresa-may-demands-early-talks-on-britain-leaving-the-eu-a3288141.html
L/NP 70 ALP 67 Others 5
http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2016/results/
And if I were in an LEA school, add the new KS3 National Curriculum to the year before. As it happened, I replanned mine anyway, but knowing what I'm doing (unlike Gove) I made a good job of it.
Theresa May's supporters had better be very very careful here or they're going to be in the same predicament. If she's going to win she needs to do it by playing cricket.
No wonder Boris thought he'd let someone else clear up his own mess - just like the good old Bullingdon days.
Is he unique on the Labour front bench or are there others that have survived the recent tsunami?
100% agree.
- M. H. Thatcher, at the Lord Mayor's Banquet at Guildhall, 12 November 1990.
Enjoy your trip.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-completes-investigation-hillary-clintons-personal-email-server/story?id=40346712
So a woman PM and President could be elected by the end of the year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaustive_ballot
More clicks than necessary to find some of these markets. Grr...
Especially when the alternative faction would all be following the Remain Campaign's playbook.
Nigel Farage made sure that was the only way Cameron could achieve power.
That's how.
However, imagine the cost of putting in a link between the M25 and the A23 at the four and a half mile mark. It would be used not very much and it would cut across the most expensive, non-urban, real estate in the Country. to say nothing of the engineering problems (lots of downland at about that point. It could be done but not please at taxpayer expense.
Now an elevated Hyperloop train system between Gatwick and Heathrow I could see, provided again that the Taxpayer was kept out of it and the respective airport companies paid up.
As to the decision on where a new runway will be built I read in the Telegraph that it has been put back to the autumn.
And the leading Tory Brexiters- Leadsom and Johnson didn't believe in it.
I just don't get how this all went so horribly wrong.
"Absolutely not, no. There will be no deals with Ukip or anybody around Ukip.”
Unlike the UKIP candidate Leadsom.....
Because 4m voters and a very persuasive pressure group wanted it and that's how politics works.
(Because he wouldn't have won the GE2015 without it.)
Because the EU has become unrecognisable from the organisation that we voted, via referendum, to join in 1975.
None of which IMO makes Dave a failure for offering it in the first place.
Of course the voters got it badly wrong and Dave was out the door, for any number of reasons well-rehearsed on here, but them's the facts as I see 'em.
Remain's message was "you've never had it so good, don't take the risk of economic chaos". On the contrary, many people in the real world feel they've never had it so BAD, and in many cases actually welcomed the prospect of blowing up the current economy, because whatever replaced it couldn't possibly be worse than the status quo.
Remain 16,141,241 (48.1%)
Easy. The three main parties offered the voters the equivalent of no choice on this issue. It was a political closed shop.