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edited July 2016 in General

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    First!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2016
    Damn, I missed the result, thought it was coming out at just before 7pm.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I hope we get May vs Leadsom in the final round.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,602
    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,398
    FPT:
    peter_from_putney said:

    If Theresa were to be declared the outright winner tonight/tomorrow, would Cameron leave Downing Street within hours? How quickly would the John Lewis removal vans arrive? God it just doesn't seem real somehow.

    One can only hope. We're still waiting for Hills to pay out on Dave to go in 2016.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,834
    edited July 2016
    Fifth, like Fox!

    Edit: worse than projected!!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,812
    Rees-Mogg and Afriye both very bullish about Gove.

    "Catching up after a slow start"
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,961
    Broken, sleazy Fox on the slide...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,921
    AndyJS said:

    Damn, I missed the result, thought it was coming out at just before 7pm.

    So did the BBC, they were totally wrong footed and missed the first two names Brady read out.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Maybe we won't get another vote if Gove and Crabb see the light.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,075
    Mr. JS, don't worry, it wasn't especially exciting in the end.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,921
    MikeL said:

    Rees-Mogg and Afriye both very bullish about Gove.

    "Catching up after a slow start"

    Oh for Fox sake!
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    ydoethur said:

    MikeL said:

    Rees-Mogg and Afriye both very bullish about Gove.

    "Catching up after a slow start"

    Oh for Fox sake!
    Beat me to it!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Surely the animals have to drop out two by two?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,468
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Dave:

    "We're leaving Downing Street for the last time after six wonderful years, and we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very much more divided, polarised state than when we came here six years ago."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,602
    I think Gove can do this*

    *Make the final two
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,941
    MikeL said:

    Rees-Mogg and Afriye both very bullish about Gove.

    "Catching up after a slow start"

    Yes I think they will pick up the majority of Fox supporters and once Crabb is eliminated they will back him into the final round and May will beat him. The numbers don't look good for Leadsom right now she needed at least 80-90 to make it into the final round.
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553
    edited July 2016
    peter_from_putney said:

    If Theresa were to be declared the outright winner tonight/tomorrow, would Cameron leave Downing Street within hours? How quickly would the John Lewis removal vans arrive? God it just doesn't seem real somehow.

    Crabb, Gove and Leadsom drop out.
    Cameron sees monarch, offers resignation, recommends that monarch appoints May.
    May sees monarch. Monarch appoints May.
    Some agency or other hires youngsters to wave Union Jacks near the barrier in Downing Street.

    Timing will swamp out the release of the Chilcot report at 10am tomorrow, so don't expect everyone to drop out today.

    Is there a market on whether May will wear pearls or thigh-high boots?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,921
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    ydoethur said:

    MikeL said:

    Rees-Mogg and Afriye both very bullish about Gove.

    "Catching up after a slow start"

    Oh for Fox sake!
    Beat me to it!
    Got to beat you at something TFS, otherwise l'll end up looking like Gove. Which would be a horrendous fate.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    "Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations.
    In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#ixzz4DYc9BPnz
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,398
    Crabb should really drop out now. It's highly unlikely he'd overtake Gove or Leadsom - unless some funny business goes on.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    edited July 2016
    I know it's sad, but Fox being humiliated with just16 votes, has me giggling like the front row of a Justin Bieber concert.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,921
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Surely the animals have to drop out two by two?

    Miaow.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,075
    Mr. Betting, bit of a limp-wristed u-turn from May, when her position was the correct one.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Remain campaigners received 34 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Hiding-in-the-background-throughout-the-campaign (May) received 165 votes
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance....''

    The first of very, very many.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Betting, bit of a limp-wristed u-turn from May, when her position was the correct one.

    Get used to it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,602
    Theresa May has enough supporters to choose her opponent if she so wishes
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,067
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I think Gove can do this*

    *Make the final two

    There are a lot of tactical votes available with TM achieving 165 in first ballot.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,834
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    "Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations.
    In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#ixzz4DYc9BPnz

    Good. It should be made clear that we'd do everything we can to preserve the rights of EU citizens in the UK and Brits in the EU.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,982
    FPT:
    HurstLlama said:

    Sandpit said:

    HurstLlama said:

    RationalPlan said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    Is it still the case that there's no exit from the M23 between the M25 and the airport, around ten miles? Missed a flight once after an accident closed the M23 and there was no way of getting round it. Serious infrastructure needed at LGW anyway, another runway would only make the issues worse.

    They should really build both LHR and LGW runways, if they want an outside-the-box idea then an airside Hyperloop linking the two airports would allow fast transfers between them. ;)
    Mr. Pit, quite right there is no exit from the M23 after the M25 interchange and before Gatwick, and to be honest it would be difficult to think up an economically viable case why there should be so. Oh, and the distance is nine miles and not 10.

    Building a hyperloop between Gatwick and Heathrow would be spiffing - the present bus transfer fails most hours of every day because the M25 from the M3 (often the A3) around to the Heathrow Junctions is usually down to stop-start crawl in both directions, making sensible journey planning impossible. Back in the day there was a helicopter service which worked tremendously well (and wasn't that expensive), but the eco-loons killed that off.

    That said who would invest in a high-speed, non-stop train service between Gatwick and Heathrow? It would be humongously expensive to build and be subject to more planning objections from Surrey residents than you could shake a stick at. The length of time to get T5 planning permission would pale into insignificance by comparison.
    I'd put a link between the M23 and A23 half way along the nine miles, if only to allow traffic to keep moving slowly when there's a big accident on the motorway. I used to live on the M3 corridor, and I'll guess that during my time in the sandpit the traffic on the M25 between the M40 and M23 hasn't got any better!

    Hyperloop is of course wishful thinking, for a large number of reasons, but we used to do stuff like that in the UK and should be supporting and developing new technology where possible.

    Are we still expecting the runway announcement this week?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,921
    saddened said:

    I know it's sad, but Fox being humiliated with just16 votes, has me giggling like the front row of a Justin Bieber concert.

    I was really gut-wrenchingly disappointed. I so wanted the first one out to be Gove. It would have felt positively cathartic to see him broken, humiliated and reviled.

    It would also have given him a dim sense of how he made teachers feel every day for four horrendous years.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,518
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Interesting how you have often advocated a coronation for Theresa May. Your contempt for Conservative Party members is clear. Why do you object to the membership having a vote ? We've had weeks without en effective Prime Minister - a few more won't make any difference.

    By the way, Margaret Thatcher won a majority of MPs in 1990 - for all the good it did her.

    On the numbers themselves, a good result for Leadsom given the ordure flung at her in the last 48 hours and a disaster for Gove. Crabb did better than I was expecting.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,961
    taffys said:

    ''Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance....''

    The first of very, very many.

    The Lady IS For Turning. :smiley:
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,812
    tlg86 said:

    Crabb should really drop out now. It's highly unlikely he'd overtake Gove or Leadsom - unless some funny business goes on.

    Indeed - but the advantage of him staying in is to fine tune the tactical voting.

    Though it won't make much difference as long as they have a pretty good idea how Fox's votes will split between Leadsom and Gove.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,398
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theresa May has enough supporters to choose her opponent if she so wishes

    But we would know that she'd have played that game. Not sure that would go down well.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    How they did compared to Guido's list of declared MPs:

    May 165 (110)
    Leadsom 66 (41)
    Gove 48 (25)
    Crabb 34 (22)
    Fox 16 (8)
    Overall 329 (206)
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    saddened said:

    I know it's sad, but Fox being humiliated with just16 votes, has me giggling like the front row of a Justin Bieber concert.

    You are a very bad man – but you did have company :lol:
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I think Gove can do this*

    *Make the final two

    Yup.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I think Gove can do this*

    *Make the final two

    Do you think Gove or Leadsom has a better chance with the membership?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,602
    stodge said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Interesting how you have often advocated a coronation for Theresa May. Your contempt for Conservative Party members is clear. Why do you object to the membership having a vote ? We've had weeks without en effective Prime Minister - a few more won't make any difference.

    By the way, Margaret Thatcher won a majority of MPs in 1990 - for all the good it did her.

    On the numbers themselves, a good result for Leadsom given the ordure flung at her in the last 48 hours and a disaster for Gove. Crabb did better than I was expecting.
    I haven't advocated a coronation, I wish the party members get a vote.

    However we're at the point we're whomever finishes second is only supported by less than the third of the parliamentary party, as IDS and Corbyn can attest, that's a horrible place to be in
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,834
    AndyJS said:

    How they did compared to Guido's list of declared MPs:

    May 165 (110)
    Leadsom 66 (41)
    Gove 48 (25)
    Crabb 34 (22)
    Fox 16 (8)
    Overall 329 (206)

    So no one did worse. Maybe there were fewer public declarations than last time.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,398
    AndyJS said:

    How they did compared to Guido's list of declared MPs:

    May 165 (110)
    Leadsom 66 (41)
    Gove 48 (25)
    Crabb 34 (22)
    Fox 16 (8)
    Overall 329 (206)

    Fox had the biggest % improvement. He wins!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,982
    If Crabb has any sense he'll drop out now, the question then would be if either Gove or Leadsom would do the same - knowing that if either of them did then the other name would go to the Members.

    So, one more round on Thursday then print the ballots over the weekend and post them to the members on Monday.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,961
    edited July 2016
    stodge said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Interesting how you have often advocated a coronation for Theresa May. Your contempt for Conservative Party members is clear. Why do you object to the membership having a vote ?
    He thinks May will reverse Brexit and doesn't want to risk those pesky Con members throwing a spanner in the works? ;)

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,602
    Danny565 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I think Gove can do this*

    *Make the final two

    Do you think Gove or Leadsom has a better chance with the membership?
    Today, Leadsom

    Mid August? Perhaps Gove once the anger has subsided
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    It could yet get a bit messy for second place.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Stewart Jackson speaking for Lead(balloon) .... :smiley:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,834
    GIN1138 said:

    stodge said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Interesting how you have often advocated a coronation for Theresa May. Your contempt for Conservative Party members is clear. Why do you object to the membership having a vote ?
    He thinks May will reverse Brexit and doesn't want to risk those pesky Con members throwing a spanner in the works? ;)

    But Brexit means Brexit, or so I was reliably informed :D
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,812
    edited July 2016
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theresa May has enough supporters to choose her opponent if she so wishes

    But we would know that she'd have played that game. Not sure that would go down well.
    The game has already been played - and nobody is saying anything.

    No way did Gove get 48 genuine votes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,075
    Not so much Iron Lady as Malleable May?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    JackW said:

    Stewart Jackson speaking for Lead(balloon) .... :smiley:

    Not surprising to see him as one of the Quidamplumbi.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    AndyJS said:

    How they did compared to Guido's list of declared MPs:

    May 165 (110)
    Leadsom 66 (41)
    Gove 48 (25)
    Crabb 34 (22)
    Fox 16 (8)
    Overall 329 (206)

    Essentially each candidate upped their vote 50%.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @rcs1000 (or anyone else)

    I've got to fly to NYC at short notice to have breakfast with someone on Friday.

    Can you recommend anywhere decent? Would like it to be nice, but not flashy and reasonably discreet.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,410
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.

    yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,304
    RobD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    "Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations.
    In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#ixzz4DYc9BPnz

    Good. It should be made clear that we'd do everything we can to preserve the rights of EU citizens in the UK and Brits in the EU.
    Will Richard Nabavi be for turning too ?
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    So, to be clear, those people (mainly hard-core Leavers) criticising Theresa May and Philip Hammond for making the sensible point that the residence status of EU citizens will depend on the outcome of the outcome of the negotiation are saying that a Romanian who has been here four months and is now working in a hand car-wash has acquired a lifetime right to live here? And that that should remain true even if our EU friends don't extend the same courtesy to Brits living in their countries? Have I got this interpretation of 'getting control of our borders' correct?

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    As expected... but traded at 1.5!
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553
    ydoethur said:

    I so wanted the first one out to be Gove. It would have felt positively cathartic to see him broken, humiliated and reviled.

    It would also have given him a dim sense of how he made teachers feel every day for four horrendous years.

    What - even in the long holidays they get? :)
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,124
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Dave:

    "We're leaving Downing Street for the last time after six wonderful years, and we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very much more divided, polarised state than when we came here six years ago."
    We know every political life ends in failure. But few could exceed Cameron's miserable legacy at leaving Britain so right royally funked. Even Major's 1997 humiliation is looking miraculous by comparison, never mind Eden's hasty departure.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Betting, bit of a limp-wristed u-turn from May, when her position was the correct one.

    I agree, a poor, weak misjudgement by La May.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TOPPING said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.

    yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
    If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Not seen a Crabb surrogate yet. Considering pulling out?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,602
    GIN1138 said:

    stodge said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Remain campaigners received 199 votes

    Leave campaigners received 130 votes

    Interesting how you have often advocated a coronation for Theresa May. Your contempt for Conservative Party members is clear. Why do you object to the membership having a vote ?
    He thinks May will reverse Brexit and doesn't want to risk those pesky Con members throwing a spanner in the works? ;)

    No, Brexit is happening, the people have spoken, I'm looking forward to it
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited July 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Danny565 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I think Gove can do this*

    *Make the final two

    Do you think Gove or Leadsom has a better chance with the membership?
    Today, Leadsom

    Mid August? Perhaps Gove once the anger has subsided
    Although I don't have any knowledge at all of Tory members' mindsets, I have to say that's my working assumption too. He surely has more knowledge of how to hit the members' erogenous zones more than Leadsom does, and, Miliband-ishly weird though he is, he's less likely to make a huge unforced error in the middle of campaigning than Leadsom is.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,914
    MikeL said:

    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theresa May has enough supporters to choose her opponent if she so wishes

    But we would know that she'd have played that game. Not sure that would go down well.
    The game has already been played - and nobody is saying anything.

    No way did Gove get 48 genuine votes.
    Mike L. Do you think they will play again in the next/subsequent rounds?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,410
    edited July 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    "Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations.
    In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#ixzz4DYc9BPnz

    Good. It should be made clear that we'd do everything we can to preserve the rights of EU citizens in the UK and Brits in the EU.
    Will Richard Nabavi be for turning too ?
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    So, to be clear, those people (mainly hard-core Leavers) criticising Theresa May and Philip Hammond for making the sensible point that the residence status of EU citizens will depend on the outcome of the outcome of the negotiation are saying that a Romanian who has been here four months and is now working in a hand car-wash has acquired a lifetime right to live here? And that that should remain true even if our EU friends don't extend the same courtesy to Brits living in their countries? Have I got this interpretation of 'getting control of our borders' correct?

    Not sure about him, but I disagree with the u-turn. If I was a Brit living in France or Spain, I would be furious at such a cavalier and unnecessary depletion of our negotiating arsenal.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Charles said:

    @rcs1000 (or anyone else)

    I've got to fly to NYC at short notice to have breakfast with someone on Friday.

    Can you recommend anywhere decent? Would like it to be nice, but not flashy and reasonably discreet.

    And cheap ?? :wink:
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    https://twitter.com/journostephen/status/750384526094901248
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    JackW said:

    Not seen a Crabb surrogate yet. Considering pulling out?

    I expect he will lose votes in the second round (a la Clarke)
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,124
    Charles said:

    @rcs1000 (or anyone else)

    I've got to fly to NYC at short notice to have breakfast with someone on Friday.

    Can you recommend anywhere decent? Would like it to be nice, but not flashy and reasonably discreet.

    McDonalds 1 dollar brekkie in Times Square, or you could go to for a KFC bargain bucket too.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,304
    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    "Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations.
    In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#ixzz4DYc9BPnz

    Good. It should be made clear that we'd do everything we can to preserve the rights of EU citizens in the UK and Brits in the EU.
    Will Richard Nabavi be for turning too ?
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    So, to be clear, those people (mainly hard-core Leavers) criticising Theresa May and Philip Hammond for making the sensible point that the residence status of EU citizens will depend on the outcome of the outcome of the negotiation are saying that a Romanian who has been here four months and is now working in a hand car-wash has acquired a lifetime right to live here? And that that should remain true even if our EU friends don't extend the same courtesy to Brits living in their countries? Have I got this interpretation of 'getting control of our borders' correct?

    Not sure about him, but I disagree with the u-turn. If I was a Brit living in France or Spain, I would be furious at such a cavalier and unnecessary depletion of our negotiating arsenal.
    So she's come out with something that didn't need to be said and has now reversed it. Perhaps she'd have been better off giving a "non comittal" answer after all....

    And seems to have pleased noone...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,241
    edited July 2016
    Sandpit said:

    If Crabb has any sense he'll drop out now, the question then would be if either Gove or Leadsom would do the same - knowing that if either of them did then the other name would go to the Members.

    So, one more round on Thursday then print the ballots over the weekend and post them to the members on Monday.

    Crabb is entitled to stay in. Technically if he gets most of Fox's votes he could overhaul Gove in third, though unlikely given Fox should back Leadsom. With the second round on Thursday and the third round next Tuesday a couple of days is not going to make any real difference to how long we have to wait to get the next Tory leader and PM, especially as we will have the membership campaign lasting most of the summer before the winner is announced in September
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Two weeks feels like long enough to give the members, to be honest. Most will return their ballots early anyway.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,834
    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    @rcs1000 (or anyone else)

    I've got to fly to NYC at short notice to have breakfast with someone on Friday.

    Can you recommend anywhere decent? Would like it to be nice, but not flashy and reasonably discreet.

    And cheap ?? :wink:
    I was going to recommend the Burger King in JFK. Added convenience of not having to leave the airport, and a wide selection on the menu :D , but then realised Charles may actually be looking for serious responses :p
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,834
    tyson said:

    Charles said:

    @rcs1000 (or anyone else)

    I've got to fly to NYC at short notice to have breakfast with someone on Friday.

    Can you recommend anywhere decent? Would like it to be nice, but not flashy and reasonably discreet.

    McDonalds 1 dollar brekkie in Times Square, or you could go to for a KFC bargain bucket too.
    Hah, great minds and all that!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    AlastairMeeks said:

    TOPPING said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.

    yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
    If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.

    Corbyn guarantees a Tory government whoever they choose.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    "Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations.
    In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#ixzz4DYc9BPnz

    Good. It should be made clear that we'd do everything we can to preserve the rights of EU citizens in the UK and Brits in the EU.
    Will Richard Nabavi be for turning too ?
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    So, to be clear, those people (mainly hard-core Leavers) criticising Theresa May and Philip Hammond for making the sensible point that the residence status of EU citizens will depend on the outcome of the outcome of the negotiation are saying that a Romanian who has been here four months and is now working in a hand car-wash has acquired a lifetime right to live here? And that that should remain true even if our EU friends don't extend the same courtesy to Brits living in their countries? Have I got this interpretation of 'getting control of our borders' correct?

    Not sure about him, but I disagree with the u-turn. If I was a Brit living in France or Spain, I would be furious at such a cavalier and unnecessary depletion of our negotiating arsenal.
    So she's come out with something that didn't need to be said and has now reversed it. Perhaps she'd have been better off giving a "non comittal" answer after all....

    And seems to have pleased noone...
    It was just a problem in language.

    Germany isn't going to deport Brits overnight and neither are we. We could always have "guaranteed" them something... even if here was room for movement over the status in the future.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    My concern remains the financial markets. How long are they going to tolerate this nonsense? It's all the idiot Cameron's fault. May will manage, but is that enough?
    Actually, I believe Britain's future is in the hands of the French electorate. If Juppe wins we may stand a chance of a decent settlement.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    When you read through the threads of the popular newspapers, nobody has a good word to say about Theresa May.

    The more dismissive they are, the more up voted.

    Just sayin'
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    taffys said:

    ''Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance....''

    The first of very, very many.

    Please give us the exact words used before and after the so-called reverse. Scraping the barrel methinks.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SouthamObserver said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    TOPPING said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.

    yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
    If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.

    Corbyn guarantees a Tory government whoever they choose.

    No, he guarantees a non-Corbyn government. With politics shooting through the rapids right now, the Conservatives would be unwise to proceed on the basis that they will remain the only alternative to a Corbyn-led Labour.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Any interesting markets on this one?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited July 2016
    ''Please give us the exact words used before and after the so-called reverse. Scraping the barrel methinks.''

    Not to worry.

    There will be hundreds of others to choose from when she gets the leadership.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,834
    taffys said:

    When you read through the threads of the popular newspapers, nobody has a good word to say about Theresa May.

    The more dismissive they are, the more up voted.

    Just sayin'

    Below the line comments on newspaper websites.. talk about hive of scum and villainy... :D
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,304
    AlastairMeeks said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    TOPPING said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.

    yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
    If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.

    Corbyn guarantees a Tory government whoever they choose.

    No, he guarantees a non-Corbyn government. With politics shooting through the rapids right now, the Conservatives would be unwise to proceed on the basis that they will remain the only alternative to a Corbyn-led Labour.
    A two horse race ... ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,241
    edited July 2016
    AlastairMeeks said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    TOPPING said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.

    yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
    If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.

    Corbyn guarantees a Tory government whoever they choose.

    No, he guarantees a non-Corbyn government. With politics shooting through the rapids right now, the Conservatives would be unwise to proceed on the basis that they will remain the only alternative to a Corbyn-led Labour.
    There is always Tim of course!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,812
    Fox - next leader requires experience.

    Suggests he's more likely to switch to Gove rather than Leadsom.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Momentum canvassing here in Leyton.

    Was tempted to walk up and tell them how much I supported Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party :)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/750389907231735809
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,602
    https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/750388280336744448
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    @rcs1000 (or anyone else)

    I've got to fly to NYC at short notice to have breakfast with someone on Friday.

    Can you recommend anywhere decent? Would like it to be nice, but not flashy and reasonably discreet.

    And cheap ?? :wink:
    Eat on the plane on the way over. :)
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    "Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations.
    In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#ixzz4DYc9BPnz

    Good. It should be made clear that we'd do everything we can to preserve the rights of EU citizens in the UK and Brits in the EU.
    Will Richard Nabavi be for turning too ?
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    So, to be clear, those people (mainly hard-core Leavers) criticising Theresa May and Philip Hammond for making the sensible point that the residence status of EU citizens will depend on the outcome of the outcome of the negotiation are saying that a Romanian who has been here four months and is now working in a hand car-wash has acquired a lifetime right to live here? And that that should remain true even if our EU friends don't extend the same courtesy to Brits living in their countries? Have I got this interpretation of 'getting control of our borders' correct?

    Not sure about him, but I disagree with the u-turn. If I was a Brit living in France or Spain, I would be furious at such a cavalier and unnecessary depletion of our negotiating arsenal.
    Haven't read the article. Has she turned? It appears all she's done is say they'll be part of the negotiation.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,193
    SouthamObserver said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    TOPPING said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.

    yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
    If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.

    Corbyn guarantees a Tory government whoever they choose.

    Not really, voters have far more choice than previously. It would be lunatic to think that the irresponsibility of opponents licences similar irresponsibility on your part.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,982
    Tissue_Price said:

    Two weeks feels like long enough to give the members, to be honest. Most will return their ballots early anyway.

    Make it a little longer, for those of us where the post takes a week or two. No reason it can't be done and dusted by the first week of August, rather than September though. The new PM should really be in place ASAP, she's got plenty in the inbox already.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    AlastairMeeks said:

    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/750389907231735809

    It would be politically useful, disregarding the supporters themselves.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/750388280336744448

    I'm not sure that it serves Andrea Leadsom's interest to claim that Theresa May really commands the support of 183 MPs.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,410
    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    "Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations.
    In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#ixzz4DYc9BPnz

    Good. It should be made clear that we'd do everything we can to preserve the rights of EU citizens in the UK and Brits in the EU.
    Will Richard Nabavi be for turning too ?
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    So, to be clear, those people (mainly hard-core Leavers) criticising Theresa May and Philip Hammond for making the sensible point that the residence status of EU citizens will depend on the outcome of the outcome of the negotiation are saying that a Romanian who has been here four months and is now working in a hand car-wash has acquired a lifetime right to live here? And that that should remain true even if our EU friends don't extend the same courtesy to Brits living in their countries? Have I got this interpretation of 'getting control of our borders' correct?

    Not sure about him, but I disagree with the u-turn. If I was a Brit living in France or Spain, I would be furious at such a cavalier and unnecessary depletion of our negotiating arsenal.
    So she's come out with something that didn't need to be said and has now reversed it. Perhaps she'd have been better off giving a "non comittal" answer after all....

    And seems to have pleased noone...
    yes I think that's about it.

    Albeit The Moggster was talking about curtailing the right to remain from June 23rd so maybe the subject was in play, but yes, you are right.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,602
    @BBCNormanS: Oh Lordy. Now Corbyn ally tells me "Bring it on you w*****s" Methinks this is definitely heading towards a showdown
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    AlastairMeeks said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    TOPPING said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May should forget about tactical lending of votes for rivals and concentrate on amassing as big a tally as possible for the final round. She will be practically unopposable if she commands far more of the Parliamentary party than her nominal opponent in the last two and the membership would realise that now is not the time to succumb to Corbyn's Syndrome.

    yebbut, the Party members are in a feisty mood..
    If they have gone collectively insane, that's their prerogative. A Prime Minister selected in such a manner would not last long. Governments don't have the luxury of oppositions of being able to perform Farewell Symphonies. And the government's majority remains just 12.

    Corbyn guarantees a Tory government whoever they choose.

    No, he guarantees a non-Corbyn government. With politics shooting through the rapids right now, the Conservatives would be unwise to proceed on the basis that they will remain the only alternative to a Corbyn-led Labour.
    If there was a market I'd bet on there being at least one extra party with a sitting MP next year, quite feasibly this could be two if the Conservative membership split from their MPs as well.
This discussion has been closed.

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