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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Jim, cheers.

    We do live in interesting times. Maybe I should write a history.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573
    GIN1138 said:

    ToryJim said:

    If there's a coronation, how long until Cameron toddles off?

    About 17 hours
    Cameron will have to do the governments response to Chilcot tomorrow, so it'll be Thursday or Friday I'd have thought.
    One last PMQs? Or is Parliament in recess?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited July 2016
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ToryJim said:

    If there's a coronation, how long until Cameron toddles off?

    About 17 hours
    Cameron will have to do the governments response to Chilcot tomorrow, so it'll be Thursday or Friday I'd have thought.
    One last PMQs? Or is Parliament in recess?
    July 22nd is recess IIRC
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Hasn't the Bank Of England wanted a weaker Sterling for some time? Might a weaker pound help with regard to the global imbalances? Though not if it strengthens the dollar of course.

    In theory, a weaker Sterling makes our exports cheaper, and makes imports more expensive. Therefore helping with our imbalances.

    Unfortunately, demand for a lot of the things we import (such as oil, and natural gas) is very price inelastic. If Sterling halved, then our energy import bill would almost double.

    Our exports are largely price inelastic too. Hence the fact that Sterling has fallen from $2.10 in 2007 to $1.30, and our exports have only increased 20% or so in that time.
    $2.10 :o How was the dollar ever that weak ?
    It was more than $2 to the £ for the whole of 2006-07 period while I was living in California as a student. Happy days.
    In was in the 1.90s when I bought my house in California (at 40% off the asking price - that's what a bear market in property looks like)
    Your experience in that may well soon prove invaluable here!
    As a rule I don't divest strategic assets, so I will likely remain structurally long the London property market (both in the "super prime residential" and the "unique venue" segments)
    If you're going to live in your house for the next 30 years (as I suspect both you and I will do), then then the vagaries of the property market are irrelevent.

    However, what we're likely to end up with is quite an illiquid market, with very few transactions from non-forced sellers.
    I thought you were planning on being a billionaire by then and hence would find the need to upgrade?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,953
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ToryJim said:

    If there's a coronation, how long until Cameron toddles off?

    About 17 hours
    Cameron will have to do the governments response to Chilcot tomorrow, so it'll be Thursday or Friday I'd have thought.
    One last PMQs? Or is Parliament in recess?
    PMQ's and Chilcot tomorrow.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,305
    GIN1138 said:

    ToryJim said:

    If there's a coronation, how long until Cameron toddles off?

    About 17 hours
    Cameron will have to do the governments response to Chilcot tomorrow, so it'll be Thursday or Friday I'd have thought.
    This could be the speech of his career tomorrow, eclipsing even the excellent statesman's response to the Bloody Sunday inquiry.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    We all lose if Fox is the Prime Minister.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    edited July 2016
    chestnut said:

    Hospitality, entertainment and shopping venues will do very well.

    Yes, they will. However, I can't help thinking that tending to the needs of foreign people whilst being paid in a considerably devalued currency is not one of their lifetime's ambitions. I was hoping for something better for the British than teaching them how to say "please can I carry your bag, sir?" in Mandarin.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451
    BBC still saying half an hour or so.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,102

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    I'd guess Leadsom would be your biggest winner. A revelation to me.
    A revelation that such an obscure non entity can be plucked from the talentless MP's void
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,842
    edited July 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    We all lose if Fox is the Prime Minister.
    Prime Minister Fox. Sounds familiar.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Charles said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    It's a bugger to get to. I had a flight at 7am yesterday from Gatwick & had to leave home at 5am - at Heathrow I could have got another 30 minutes kip!
    I think we have been here before, Mr. Charles, and my position has not changed. There are more important considerations in deciding national infrastructure than what time you have to get up in the morning.

    Besides in your recent house move you could have chosen to move to South London Rather than North London. You could even have chosen to move to the formerly wonderful county of Sussex - not that I could recommend it, mind, but we could do with some more people with your level of clout about the place.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:



    Singapore and Hong Kong are, as you say, excellent.


    Being given a tiny boiled sweet by passport control does not make an airport excellent.

    I don't think I've ever had a more stressful travel experience than trying to change planes at Singapore. A connecting flight with the same carrier required a walk of OVER A MILE and two airside passes through security.

    With only a 45 minute turnaround.

    Immediately after the initial 15 hour flight to Singapore.

    And then there's the stupid metro system out of Changi airport which requires you to change trains after about two stops - basically everybody and their luggage unless they're going to an airport hotel at the intermediate stop, or the conference centre thingy.

    Awful. Absolutely awful. At least in the big US airports you can usually get some half-decent beer these days.
    Denver is the worst plane change I've come across recently. Nearly missed a connecting flight because they require changing passengers to go through the same security as everyone coming in from the outside.
    Denver is - indeed - bloody awful.

    But it does tell us some interesting things about the New World Order: https://www.buzzfeed.com/rickysans/the-mysterious-conspiracy-theories-surrounding-the-denver-ai?utm_term=.kgeZ9bXm4#.wrKVx174M
    My favorite US airport is Santa Ana, although I do quite like MCI (Kansas City) as well (although the salads in the airport restaurant are gruesome)

    O'Hare is tedious, JFK shabby, LAX appalling designed, Newark a mess. SFO is ok, I suppose - and Logan not too bad.
    What, no love for the black hole of dreams that is Atlanta? :wink:
    No, no, no, please don't

    I haven't flown international from there since the early 1990s...but I had to change through there on my way to Charlotte last year and it still brings me out in a cold sweat
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,088
    tyson said:

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    I'd guess Leadsom would be your biggest winner. A revelation to me.
    A revelation that such an obscure non entity can be plucked from the talentless MP's void
    Worked for Ed!

    Oh wait!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,953

    BBC still saying half an hour or so.

    Tut. :(
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,305
    Sky reporting that the PMs PPS came in at the last minute to cast a proxy vote.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    tyson said:

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    I'd guess Leadsom would be your biggest winner. A revelation to me.
    A revelation that such an obscure non entity can be plucked from the talentless MP's void
    I love her.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451
    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 50s51 seconds ago
    Jon Craig reports that the PM's PPS Gavin Williamson has just cast a proxy vote at the end on behalf of the PM

    So not 100% well before 6pm. Do they start counting before close of ballot?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited July 2016

    Charles said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    It's a bugger to get to. I had a flight at 7am yesterday from Gatwick & had to leave home at 5am - at Heathrow I could have got another 30 minutes kip!
    I think we have been here before, Mr. Charles, and my position has not changed. There are more important considerations in deciding national infrastructure than what time you have to get up in the morning.

    Besides in your recent house move you could have chosen to move to South London Rather than North London. You could even have chosen to move to the formerly wonderful county of Sussex - not that I could recommend it, mind, but we could do with some more people with your level of clout about the place.
    If Herstmonceux was up for sale I might consider it...

    (And some might consider my grumpiness in the early morning a risk to national security)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573
    Sandpit said:

    Sky reporting that the PMs PPS came in at the last minute to cast a proxy vote.

    Dave too busy chillaxing? :p
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Scott_P said:

    @IanDunt: Colleague's take on Leadsom: "Dimmer than Grayling dim." Damning.

    Ouch

    You only have to be bright enough to appoint the right people beneath you.

    What really matters is communication.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,953
    edited July 2016
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ToryJim said:

    If there's a coronation, how long until Cameron toddles off?

    About 17 hours
    Cameron will have to do the governments response to Chilcot tomorrow, so it'll be Thursday or Friday I'd have thought.
    This could be the speech of his career tomorrow, eclipsing even the excellent statesman's response to the Bloody Sunday inquiry.
    I suspect his response to Chilcot will be masterful. Cameron is always great at these things.

    As PM Cameron really has frustrated the hell out of me. At times he can be an exceptional statesman but at other times he has really demeaned the office he holds.

    He could have been one of the all-time great British Prime Ministers, IMO.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,957
    Charles said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    It's a bugger to get to. I had a flight at 7am yesterday from Gatwick & had to leave home at 5am - at Heathrow I could have got another 30 minutes kip!
    Heathrow wins on everything except noise. The airport needs to serve not just London but the southern half of the UK. It should therefore be located to the north or north west of London, thus eliminating Gatwick and, categorically, Boris Island. It could be in Luton but the hilly terrain isn't suitable. Heathrow has the connections and infrastructure in place. Expansion requires relatively little disruption compared with alternative airports - although the people affected would see it differently of course.

    The one real problem is that the landing flight path goes right over London and disturbs their sleep. This suggests a deal to me. Runways don't make noise; airplanes do. So, Heathrow, you get your extra runway but in return you are going to have to take measurable steps to reduce overall noise. They can do that by tightening up on aircraft types that are allowed to land at Heathrow; adjusting glideslopes; rescheduling early and late aircraft movements and so on. With that deal in place, the Government can go to residents and say, you can keep the noise as it is or you can get less noise in exchange for another runway. Which do you want?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,305
    Sky reporting the expected result is exactly what is predicted by the Betfair graph above. Fox to go out and Leadsom a clear second.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573
    Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
    Announcement on first round of Tory leadership vote is imminent...
    10:01 AM - 5 Jul 2016

    ??
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:



    Singapore and Hong Kong are, as you say, excellent.


    Being given a tiny boiled sweet by passport control does not make an airport excellent.

    I don't think I've ever had a more stressful travel experience than trying to change planes at Singapore. A connecting flight with the same carrier required a walk of OVER A MILE and two airside passes through security.

    With only a 45 minute turnaround.

    Immediately after the initial 15 hour flight to Singapore.

    And then there's the stupid metro system out of Changi airport which requires you to change trains after about two stops - basically everybody and their luggage unless they're going to an airport hotel at the intermediate stop, or the conference centre thingy.

    Awful. Absolutely awful. At least in the big US airports you can usually get some half-decent beer these days.
    Denver is the worst plane change I've come across recently. Nearly missed a connecting flight because they require changing passengers to go through the same security as everyone coming in from the outside.
    Denver is - indeed - bloody awful.

    But it does tell us some interesting things about the New World Order: https://www.buzzfeed.com/rickysans/the-mysterious-conspiracy-theories-surrounding-the-denver-ai?utm_term=.kgeZ9bXm4#.wrKVx174M
    My favorite US airport is Santa Ana, although I do quite like MCI (Kansas City) as well (although the salads in the airport restaurant are gruesome)

    O'Hare is tedious, JFK shabby, LAX appalling designed, Newark a mess. SFO is ok, I suppose - and Logan not too bad.
    What, no love for the black hole of dreams that is Atlanta? :wink:
    No, no, no, please don't

    I haven't flown international from there since the early 1990s...but I had to change through there on my way to Charlotte last year and it still brings me out in a cold sweat
    I think the Americans have discovered a way to stop the passage of time, speed up ageing and destroy productivity all in one space.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,149
    Sandpit said:

    Sky reporting that the PMs PPS came in at the last minute to cast a proxy vote.

    Interesting, Crabb or May do we think?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,583
    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?
  • saddosaddo Posts: 534
    Charles said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    It's a bugger to get to. I had a flight at 7am yesterday from Gatwick & had to leave home at 5am - at Heathrow I could have got another 30 minutes kip!
    Gatwick faces massive problems that mean its a non starter.

    Its in the wrong place with dreadful transport links and no way of improving those links without magically changing the road network and rail infrastructure.

    The area its in has beyond full employment already, so where's the work force going to come from?

    There's also nowhere for all the new employees to live and no space to build anymore houses.

    Its a GIP/Stewart Wingate pipe dream with mega bonuses coming their way if it succeeds.

    If both LGW and LHR get approval, LGW doesn't happen, as all the potential investors know that all the airlines will stay or go to LHR and LGW will end up with a Manchester Airport like white elephant second runway.
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553
    GIN1138 said:

    If there's a coronation, how long until Cameron toddles off?

    Friday?
    Is the woman who won the referendum, with the help of the Sun, at Balmoral yet?
    Just wondering where the pearl-wearing May will kiss hands.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,067
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sky reporting that the PMs PPS came in at the last minute to cast a proxy vote.

    Dave too busy chillaxing? :p
    Probably added Boris to the list and ticked it, so he get's 1 vote..
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,953
    ToryJim said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sky reporting that the PMs PPS came in at the last minute to cast a proxy vote.

    Interesting, Crabb or May do we think?
    Cam would be for the Blessed Theresa. :smiley:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451
    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    I suspect so.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Off Thread.

    Naz Shah reinstated in Labour.
    https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/750375028865269761

    Labour have finally lost the Jewish vote. In history most Jews were labour supporters; no longer.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Gin, indeed.

    Cameron may benefit by comparison with Blair, but we'll see how his successor performs.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    PlatoSaid said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Airports in the Far East are the best by a long shot. Tokyo, Singapore, Seoul, Shanghai, Hong Kong. And the people who work there aren't in a foul mood, unlike most other places.

    Tokyo??? Narita is a 'mare.

    Seoul is nice, but a long way away from the City.

    Singapore and Hong Kong are, as you say, excellent.
    Get the BA flight to Haneda if you can.
    I must do that; and Haneda also avoids the appalling hour and a bit bus or taxi ride.
    What do you think of the oh la la claim I posted at 17.16?
    The Bund thing?

    From a technical perspective, it's an issue because the ECB buys bonds according to the size of the economy, rather than the pile of outstanding debt. Furthermore, they have certain restrictions about the maturities of the bonds they issue.

    Now, there are ways around this: one you could reweight the 'pool' so that QE was by size of bond market, rather than by side of GDP (which would be good for Italy and Greece). But it's also possible for the German government to do things to help to, so when bonds reach maturity, that - instead of issuing 30 year debt - they issue 8 to 10 year debt to make it eligible to the ECB.

    The ECB is also stepping into the corporate bond and covered bond markets, which takes some of the stress off the government bond market.

    I suspect we'll see a classic Euro-fudge: the Germans will oblige the ECB by issuing some shorter term debt, there'll be a new 75% GDP, 25% bond market equation, and the foray into the world of corporate bonds will take up any slack.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451

    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
    Suspect we will have to wait for the memoir.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643
    While we await the smoke signals (or whatever) from Westminster, in Australia, the vote inches toward its non-conclusion.

    According to ABC, with 80% counted, the Coalition has 70, the Labor Party 67 and Others 5. That leaves 8 still to be called and while Turnbull thinks he will get his majority, the ABC election guru doesn't agree and is predicting 73 for the Coalition, 72 for Labor and 5 for the Others which will be very well Hung (guffaw!).

    The Green will likely ally with Labour and the other four are one from the Nick Xenophon Team and three local Independents (one of whom I think is slightly closer to Labor than the Liberals). Given some outlying areas won't finish the count before Friday, it may take some time.

    I think Shorten has a chance of cobbling something together but he needs at least 72 ALP seats - less than that and Turnbull will probably have enough to stay on.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,305

    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
    MI5 showed Boris their file on him?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
    Read a report that he lost 45ish MPs the day Gove announced.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    john_zims said:

    @John_M

    'Another kick in the balls for Juncker. This is the best sport ever.

    http://www.dw.com/en/eu-commission-ceta-should-be-approved-by-national-parliaments/a-19379263'


    He'll be dumped by the end of the year.

    Oh yes; not a chance of him being in his job come next year. Merkel and Rajoy want him gone, and he doesn't have many friends left.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    Charles said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    It's a bugger to get to. I had a flight at 7am yesterday from Gatwick & had to leave home at 5am - at Heathrow I could have got another 30 minutes kip!
    You fly commercial???
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451
    PlatoSaid said:

    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
    Read a report that he lost 45ish MPs the day Gove announced.
    Odd. I doubt Gove will get a 1/4 of that number.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    rcs1000 said:

    john_zims said:

    @John_M

    'Another kick in the balls for Juncker. This is the best sport ever.

    http://www.dw.com/en/eu-commission-ceta-should-be-approved-by-national-parliaments/a-19379263'


    He'll be dumped by the end of the year.

    Oh yes; not a chance of him being in his job come next year. Merkel and Rajoy want him gone, and he doesn't have many friends left.
    I think the timing will be around when we get our new PM.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,583
    Assuming Boris had still done a deal with Leadsom it's surely a no-brainer that he would have made the Top 2.

    Does seem odd that he pulled out - unless he just panicked and of course he had to decide within a couple of hours.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Borough, if Gove doesn't, he might be out in round one.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
    MI5 showed Boris their file on him?
    Only Volumes 1 to 8
    Couldn't fit the rest of them in the lift.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451

    Mr. Borough, if Gove doesn't, he might be out in round one.

    Fine by me. Rat.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Borough, me too (backed that at 21).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451
    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 2m2 minutes ago
    "PM didn't vote" - I should clarify - his PPS late visit to the polling booth was NOT a proxy vote for @David_Cameron
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:



    Singapore and Hong Kong are, as you say, excellent.


    Being given a tiny boiled sweet by passport control does not make an airport excellent.

    I don't think I've ever had a more stressful travel experience than trying to change planes at Singapore. A connecting flight with the same carrier required a walk of OVER A MILE and two airside passes through security.

    With only a 45 minute turnaround.

    Immediately after the initial 15 hour flight to Singapore.

    And then there's the stupid metro system out of Changi airport which requires you to change trains after about two stops - basically everybody and their luggage unless they're going to an airport hotel at the intermediate stop, or the conference centre thingy.

    Awful. Absolutely awful. At least in the big US airports you can usually get some half-decent beer these days.
    Denver is the worst plane change I've come across recently. Nearly missed a connecting flight because they require changing passengers to go through the same security as everyone coming in from the outside.
    Denver is - indeed - bloody awful.

    But it does tell us some interesting things about the New World Order: https://www.buzzfeed.com/rickysans/the-mysterious-conspiracy-theories-surrounding-the-denver-ai?utm_term=.kgeZ9bXm4#.wrKVx174M
    My favorite US airport is Santa Ana, although I do quite like MCI (Kansas City) as well (although the salads in the airport restaurant are gruesome)

    O'Hare is tedious, JFK shabby, LAX appalling designed, Newark a mess. SFO is ok, I suppose - and Logan not too bad.
    Agree re O'Hare, JFK, LAX, Newark and SFO! Not been to the other two yet.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    PlatoSaid said:

    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
    Read a report that he lost 45ish MPs the day Gove announced.
    He also lost heart, and thought to himself WTF, do I need all of this? The answer was clearly no.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    It's a bugger to get to. I had a flight at 7am yesterday from Gatwick & had to leave home at 5am - at Heathrow I could have got another 30 minutes kip!
    You fly commercial???
    iSam made a joke about this months ago that still makes me chuckle - he said @Charles had a solid mahogany helicopter with gold plated taps. :smiley:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    Charles said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    It's a bugger to get to. I had a flight at 7am yesterday from Gatwick & had to leave home at 5am - at Heathrow I could have got another 30 minutes kip!
    If it's Gatwick I just don't go. Prefer to go to City or Heathrow and fly via somewhere else.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,305
    Is there a market for which newspaper is going to splash a leaked copy of Chilcot's report on tomorrow's front page?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    It's a bugger to get to. I had a flight at 7am yesterday from Gatwick & had to leave home at 5am - at Heathrow I could have got another 30 minutes kip!
    You fly commercial???
    I'm cheap.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,953
    edited July 2016

    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
    My theory:

    Boris never wanted to be PM implementing Brexit. He is a PM for "the good times" so he wants someone else to do all the unpopular Brexit stuff first.

    So he and Gove staged this whole "bust up". They hope the inexperienced Leadsom will beat May with the members. They think she will be weak and that leave's Boris and Gove effectively running the government as DPM and Chancellor respectively, behind the scenes.

    Around late 2019, after Brexit is secured and things are improving rapidly, they will knife Leadsom and Boris will become leader for 2020.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Hasn't the Bank Of England wanted a weaker Sterling for some time? Might a weaker pound help with regard to the global imbalances? Though not if it strengthens the dollar of course.

    In theory, a weaker Sterling makes our exports cheaper, and makes imports more expensive. Therefore helping with our imbalances.

    Unfortunately, demand for a lot of the things we import (such as oil, and natural gas) is very price inelastic. If Sterling halved, then our energy import bill would almost double.

    Our exports are largely price inelastic too. Hence the fact that Sterling has fallen from $2.10 in 2007 to $1.30, and our exports have only increased 20% or so in that time.
    $2.10 :o How was the dollar ever that weak ?
    It was more than $2 to the £ for the whole of 2006-07 period while I was living in California as a student. Happy days.
    In was in the 1.90s when I bought my house in California (at 40% off the asking price - that's what a bear market in property looks like)
    Your experience in that may well soon prove invaluable here!
    As a rule I don't divest strategic assets, so I will likely remain structurally long the London property market (both in the "super prime residential" and the "unique venue" segments)
    If you're going to live in your house for the next 30 years (as I suspect both you and I will do), then then the vagaries of the property market are irrelevent.

    However, what we're likely to end up with is quite an illiquid market, with very few transactions from non-forced sellers.
    I thought you were planning on being a billionaire by then and hence would find the need to upgrade?
    That's true. Good point.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @MikeK.

    Naz Shah reinstated in Labour.
    https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/750375028865269761

    Labour have finally lost the Jewish vote. In history most Jews were labour supporters; no longer.'


    That didn't take long, what a vile party.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    rcs1000 said:

    However, what we're likely to end up with is quite an illiquid market, with very few transactions from non-forced sellers.

    In 2008 the price of property dropped 20% in a year. The Brown government (via Jack Straw ISTR) passed guidelines that made it damn nearly impossible to evict somebody in a court, and prices increased by about 5% in 2009 and stabilised. The market from 2009 to about 2012 was then in the stagnation phase you describe, with few buyers and sellers and low volumes. Cameron (spit) then introduced Help To Buy and its variants, and prices sped upwards again, further encouraged by Osborne's stupidity in preannouncing BTL changes in October 2015. So we currently have a toppy market.

    There is anecdotage about post-Brexit uncertainty causing buyers to pull out, even a few days before completion. The latest RICS survey prior to Brexit was predicting a fall, so that will only be exacerbated. Whether this is temporary or longer-term is unknown.


  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Sandpit said:

    Is there a market for which newspaper is going to splash a leaked copy of Chilcot's report on tomorrow's front page?

    It's 2.8 million words. No one would be able to lift the paper.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Cameron may regret not sleeping on it. And doubtless half the Cabinet is looking at the ballot paper and wishing they'd stood themselves. As Jeremy Corbyn could have told them, you have to be in it to win it.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Two BBC employees were handed over to the police after being caught sneaking around Leave.EU's headquarters looking for Matthew Elliot.

    https://twitter.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/750371966373232640
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    PlatoSaid said:

    MikeL said:

    If Gove has collapsed, does anyone think Boris regrets pulling out?

    ie Could Boris still have made the Final 2?

    Does anyone know the real reason Boris withdrew – Gove’s comment didn’t seem to justify it.
    Read a report that he lost 45ish MPs the day Gove announced.
    I read that too, however they certainly don’t appear to have swung Gove’s way. - MI5 showing their dossier on him is beginning to look more plausible. :lol:
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ToryJim said:

    If there's a coronation, how long until Cameron toddles off?

    About 17 hours
    Cameron will have to do the governments response to Chilcot tomorrow, so it'll be Thursday or Friday I'd have thought.
    This could be the speech of his career tomorrow, eclipsing even the excellent statesman's response to the Bloody Sunday inquiry.
    I suspect his response to Chilcot will be masterful. Cameron is always great at these things.

    As PM Cameron really has frustrated the hell out of me. At times he can be an exceptional statesman but at other times he has really demeaned the office he holds.

    He could have been one of the all-time great British Prime Ministers, IMO.
    As could Blair ,,, if only .......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,603
    rcs1000 said:

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    We all lose if Fox is the Prime Minister.
    Don't exaggerate. Think of all the puns TSE could make on Liam as he Fox up this or that decision.

    It would be a bit rubbish for the rest of us though, I grant you.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Sandpit said:

    Well If I've heard Heathrow might not be such a good idea these days.

    Heathrow is the most expensive plan that requires very high landing charges to fund it (hint BA does not want to pay, why do you think they bought Aer Lingus?). Plus the money quoted does not include any money towards any transport improvements (estimated to well over £10 billion) required.
    In contrast Gatwick is much cheaper and easier to build and will fund all transport requirements needed.

    Apart from all that, the rumours is that Heathrow will never be able to borrow the money itself on the markets anymore.


    If anyone has any sense it's Gatwick.

    I agree that Gatwick is the better option. However, living near it and traveling past it, by road and rail, on a regular basis, I strongly question the associated infrastructure costs that will fall on the taxpayer. I think the plans are grossly optimistic as would anyone who cared to pop down to the train station or try and drive up the M23 at the airport's peak times. Peak times incidentally which, in the morning, coincide with the commuter crush on the London-South Coast railways.
    Is it still the case that there's no exit from the M23 between the M25 and the airport, around ten miles? Missed a flight once after an accident closed the M23 and there was no way of getting round it. Serious infrastructure needed at LGW anyway, another runway would only make the issues worse.

    They should really build both LHR and LGW runways, if they want an outside-the-box idea then an airside Hyperloop linking the two airports would allow fast transfers between them. ;)
    Mr. Pit, quite right there is no exit from the M23 after the M25 interchange and before Gatwick, and to be honest it would be difficult to think up an economically viable case why there should be so. Oh, and the distance is nine miles and not 10.

    Building a hyperloop between Gatwick and Heathrow would be spiffing - the present bus transfer fails most hours of every day because the M25 from the M3 (often the A3) around to the Heathrow Junctions is usually down to stop-start crawl in both directions, making sensible journey planning impossible. Back in the day there was a helicopter service which worked tremendously well (and wasn't that expensive), but the eco-loons killed that off.

    That said who would invest in a high-speed, non-stop train service between Gatwick and Heathrow? It would be humongously expensive to build and be subject to more planning objections from Surrey residents than you could shake a stick at. The length of time to get T5 planning permission would pale into insignificance by comparison.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Charles said:

    I'm cheap.

    You'd have to be after moving to the degradation of NW10 .... :smile:

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MP_SE said:

    Two BBC employees were handed over to the police after being caught sneaking around Leave.EU's headquarters looking for Matthew Elliot.

    https://twitter.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/750371966373232640

    Why would Matthew be at Leave.EU's HQ given that he was CEO of Vote Leave?
  • The picture of Clarke at first glance suggests that he's just had a very good lunch, but then he always looks that way.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573
    John_M said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is there a market for which newspaper is going to splash a leaked copy of Chilcot's report on tomorrow's front page?

    It's 2.8 million words. No one would be able to lift the paper.
    Could be printed at the size of text in a microdot?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    We all lose if Fox is the Prime Minister.
    Don't exaggerate. Think of all the puns TSE could make on Liam as he Fox up this or that decision.

    It would be a bit rubbish for the rest of us though, I grant you.
    This rules Leadsom and Gove out immediately. They feature in very few lyrics. They should use this rule for future contests. "Sorry Mr Davies, your name doesn't scan".
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sky reporting that the PMs PPS came in at the last minute to cast a proxy vote.

    Dave too busy chillaxing? :p

    As it is a secret vote the PPS could use the proxy to vote whichever way he/she fancied.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    I'm cheap.

    You'd have to be after moving to the degradation of NW10 .... :smile:

    But it's only a 15 minutes walk to my nearest Iceland.

    (saved me 23% on my food shop this week...)
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,583
    Faisal Islam - lots of tactical voting.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,305
    Why did they announce they were bringing forward the result, only to then delay by half an hour? Grr.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,953

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ToryJim said:

    If there's a coronation, how long until Cameron toddles off?

    About 17 hours
    Cameron will have to do the governments response to Chilcot tomorrow, so it'll be Thursday or Friday I'd have thought.
    This could be the speech of his career tomorrow, eclipsing even the excellent statesman's response to the Bloody Sunday inquiry.
    I suspect his response to Chilcot will be masterful. Cameron is always great at these things.

    As PM Cameron really has frustrated the hell out of me. At times he can be an exceptional statesman but at other times he has really demeaned the office he holds.

    He could have been one of the all-time great British Prime Ministers, IMO.
    As could Blair ,,, if only .......
    The warning signs were there for Blair from the start. The arrogance. The dodgy financial dealings. The wife. ;)

    Seriously I don't think Blair could ever have been an all time great. He is too flawed.

    Cameron really could have been. Imagine if he'd LED us out of the EU after they laughed his negotiation out of Brussels...
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    tyson said:

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    I'd guess Leadsom would be your biggest winner. A revelation to me.
    A revelation that such an obscure non entity can be plucked from the talentless MP's void
    I love her.
    Steady on.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is there a market for which newspaper is going to splash a leaked copy of Chilcot's report on tomorrow's front page?

    It's 2.8 million words. No one would be able to lift the paper.
    Could be printed at the size of text in a microdot?
    I can provide the Reader's Digest version.

    "No one is to blame. Lessons will be learned. Parliament must provide more oversight in future. Here is my invoice. Prompt payment would be appreciated".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,305
    edited July 2016

    The picture of Clarke at first glance suggests that he's just had a very good lunch, but then he always looks that way.

    Mrs Sandpit just commented, having never seen him before, that Clarke looked like a serious alcoholic.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    stjohn said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My only losing CON leadership outcome is Fox. I win on all the other 4.

    We all lose if Fox is the Prime Minister.
    Prime Minister Fox. Sounds familiar.

    He has a ready made TV Channel with Fox News.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    I'm cheap.

    You'd have to be after moving to the degradation of NW10 .... :smile:

    But it's only a 15 minutes walk to my nearest Iceland.

    (saved me 23% on my food shop this week...)
    You and Kerry Katona, eh?
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited July 2016
    @Sandpit


    'Mrs Sandpit just commented, having never seen him before, that he looked like a serious alcoholic.'

    Looks like it.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,067
    get a move on, the cricket starts in a minute!!!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    edited July 2016

    Building a hyperloop

    :)
  • wasdwasd Posts: 276
    John_M said:

    "No one is to blame. Lessons will be learned. Parliament must provide more oversight in future. Here is my invoice. Prompt payment would be appreciated".

    The next one of these should be done on a fixed cost basis. If it's going to be pointless then at the very least it should be quick too.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    I'm cheap.

    You'd have to be after moving to the degradation of NW10 .... :smile:

    But it's only a 15 minutes walk to my nearest Iceland.

    (saved me 23% on my food shop this week...)
    You and Kerry Katona, eh?
    I doubt she's been there since May 2009
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573

    get a move on, the cricket starts in a minute!!!

    I've got a meeting in a minute too! Argh
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Wasd, be fair. Chilcott was making a packet. I'd be a slow writer if I got a six figure sum every year I dallied.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited July 2016
    For Leadsom to decide to continue in the contest, assuming all the lesser players fall away, she surely needs to be within around 80 votes of May in the first ballot.

    The result is due in half an hour's time!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    I'm cheap.

    You'd have to be after moving to the degradation of NW10 .... :smile:

    But it's only a 15 minutes walk to my nearest Iceland.

    (saved me 23% on my food shop this week...)
    Backed Iceland to beat England then splurged at Whole Foods?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    john_zims said:

    @Sandpit


    'Mrs Sandpit just commented, having never seen him before, that he looked like a serious alcoholic.'

    Looks like it.

    Come on. The poor guy lost his wife a year ago. Have a heart.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Is Chilcott counting the votes? :p
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,451

    Is Chilcott counting the votes? :p

    Ha. Brilliant. Post of the day!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    First Round Result :

    May 165.. Leadsom 66 .. Gove 48 .. Crabb 34 .. Fox 16..

    :smile:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,305
    Here goes.
This discussion has been closed.