the big problem with the A50 2018 or never bet is you have to tie up your money for ages
There is no way A50 will be left up in the air indefinitely. The uncertainty would produce a yet more severe hit on the economy and we would sacrifice every last scrap of goodwill with the 27, most of whom are already apoplectic.
The three people most likely to be our next PM are May, Leadsom and Gove. Two are arch brexiteers and can't wait to get around the negotiating table, the third has openly stated "Brexit means Brexit."
So we should trust, unequivocally, what that what these politicians say now, they will do once they win their election?
That's an interesting mindset.
No, but I'm sensing no mood that suggests anything other than acceptance of the result. Other than from David Lammy and the Lib Dems. And even the Lib Dems are saying they want to fight it as a position at an election.
For one thing, it's self-preservation. The Tory Party will not survive backtracking on Brexit. It will disintegrate.
After all the dirty tricks pulled by Remain Tories during the campaign, I simply don't trust them an inch.
£9m leaflets, kick starting their campaign weeks before the Electoral Commission chose an official Leave one, using every pre Purdah and legislative lever, two extra days to register for a two hour hiccup...
And yet, still they were Losers....
Yes. But please don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. May is Osborne's candidate, positioned as the Brexit insurance candidate from the very start. She would ditch Brexit as quickly as she's ditched her pledge to leave the ECHR. This toxic bunch needs to be flushed.
I'm campaigning for all the Brexit candidates vs May.
She's a career slitherer, not someone of principle.
Why would you want someone of principle? I want someone who does what works, not someone with preconceived ideas.
Because I want the result of the referendum delivered in its widely understood sense, not a subset of it that's handy for a small number of businesses.
If Leadsom gets it we're in trouble, nowhere near enough experience for the most challenging period we have had for a long time. It's ideological again and look where ideology has got us. What happened to proper conservatism, doing what works and what is the stable option? The clue's in the name, people. all i see now are ideologues with their pet ideas that they seek to foist on people. I wish we weren't in such a chaotic position and having to make such a choice but, if it has to be anyone, a pragmatist is needed (and labour should heed that advice as well). I'm glad the Telegraoh deleted that article but what were they thinking?
I agree with everyone who has mentioned the dark side of Brexit and its enablers. Since that miserable day I've never seen the bigots so emboldened: they're not now even pretending that this is about anything other than persecuting foreigners. On a personal level, I work with many Europeans and am finding it difficult to look them in the eye. It's depressing to think that so many of my fellow countrymen signed up to this agenda of hate. Stupidity is the most charitable excuse for them.
Whereas I work with Europeans who haven't noticed any change whatsoever since the vote. Funny that.
The three people most likely to be our next PM are May, Leadsom and Gove. Two are arch brexiteers and can't wait to get around the negotiating table, the third has openly stated "Brexit means Brexit."
So we should trust, unequivocally, what that what these politicians say now, they will do once they win their election?
That's an interesting mindset.
No, but I'm sensing no mood that suggests anything other than acceptance of the result. Other than from David Lammy and the Lib Dems. And even the Lib Dems are saying they want to fight it as a position at an election.
For one thing, it's self-preservation. The Tory Party will not survive backtracking on Brexit. It will disintegrate.
After all the dirty tricks pulled by Remain Tories during the campaign, I simply don't trust them an inch.
£9m leaflets, kick starting their campaign weeks before the Electoral Commission chose an official Leave one, using every pre Purdah and legislative lever, two extra days to register for a two hour hiccup...
And yet, still they were Losers....
Yes. But please don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. May is Osborne's candidate, positioned as the Brexit insurance candidate from the very start. She would ditch Brexit as quickly as she's ditched her pledge to leave the ECHR. This toxic bunch needs to be flushed.
I'm campaigning for all the Brexit candidates vs May.
She's a career slitherer, not someone of principle.
Why would you want someone of principle? I want someone who does what works, not someone with preconceived ideas.
Is it ridiculously demanding of the electorate to expect someone with unshakeable principles who sets about implementing them with charm, finesse, and where necessary, compromise?
We've had Government by expediency for the past 10 years. It has got the country precisely nowhere.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
Perhaps if there hadn't been so much hate towards the working class or those in rural areas or those who suffer from the effects of uncontrolled and unprepared for immigration then the referendum would have had a different result.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Richard, I'd hope after you calm down you'd retract that. It looks really bad.
Yes, Tyson's upset at the referendum result and is intemperate. Sadly, unlike SeanT, he's not witty when angry. But what you wrote above is just plain nasty.
And what Tyson said about people who voted to Leave wasn't?
I'm not defending Tyson's comments; I've said before he sometimes goes too far with what he says.
But Richard is generally a poster who tries to add value to his site, I think more than Tyson. I don't always agree with him (cough) last night (cough), but he generally approaches things in an evidence-based way that I appreciate, even when I disagree with him.
As an aside, perhaps some people blasting Tyson should actually think whether he's got a point despite his language. Friends of mine are also feeling rather unloved by Britain. Closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalalala will not help the country.
Hold on till I get this violin tuned up, you almost brought a tear to my glass eye there.
What I wouldn't rule out is either a general election or another referendum on the eventual deal.
I am completely bemused by this.
We negotiate the best deal we can get. Then we have a referendum on what?
The best deal we can get or no deal at all?
The status quo. Wcan't be in the situation, once more, where people are complaining for decades that they never had a chance to vote on what was offered.
'And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.'
My Asian neighbours, husband owns IT company & wife a lawyer both voted Brexit & have been unhappy with the EU for many years.When they were at our house yesterday they were very happy with the result,no mention of unease.
Strange you don't mention the hate crimes against the Brits in Brussels but I guess it doesn't fit your narrative.
I agree with everyone who has mentioned the dark side of Brexit and its enablers. Since that miserable day I've never seen the bigots so emboldened: they're not now even pretending that this is about anything other than persecuting foreigners. On a personal level, I work with many Europeans and am finding it difficult to look them in the eye. It's depressing to think that so many of my fellow countrymen signed up to this agenda of hate. Stupidity is the most charitable excuse for them.
It is hard to take anything you say seriously while you have the EU flag as your avatar. Starting from a position of euro fanaticism.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
Irony claxon.
There is hate dropping from every word there. You're claiming you hate your Brothers vote so much you will not havie him in your home or your life or even your family.
You are the hate-filled individual here. Deal with your own hatred before you accuse others of hating.
If Leadsom gets it we're in trouble, nowhere near enough experience for the most challenging period we have had for a long time. It's ideological again and look where ideology has got us. What happened to proper conservatism, doing what works and what is the stable option? The clue's in the name, people. all i see now are ideologues with their pet ideas that they seek to foist on people. I wish we weren't in such a chaotic position and having to make such a choice but, if it has to be anyone, a pragmatist is needed (and labour should heed that advice as well). I'm glad the Telegraoh deleted that article but what were they thinking?
Conservatism has always had a split between:
- those who want to do right for all of the country - generally radical one-nationers - those who want to do right for those who have the most (i.e. also the most to lose) in the country - small C conservatives
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
I think you are taking it all just a bit too seriously.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
.. And you have the gall to complain about others being made to feel unwelcome.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
I think Leave is now hoping that their voters are all of those things so they don't spot that they aren't going to get what they were promised! They were only ever cannon fodder, now they have served their purpose the Tories will fix it all up to suit themselves and pretend they had no option.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Who alienated her or and what did they do to make her feel unwanted? Or has she just been listening to too much of your bullcrap?
I'm not as vehement about it as tyson, and accept that Leave supporters come in all shapes and sizes. But I have a lot of non-UK EU national friends who do all, without exception, range from dismay to sadness to anger and feel very personally rejected. One friend who was looking for a senior IT job in Britain has cancelled all her applications here, because she doesn't want to live in a country where she believes she'd be unwelcome.
Whoever wins as new PM could do worse than offering some reassuring words, rather than merely treating the right of EU nationals already here to remain as a bargaining chip, as May has just done.
And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.
Sad, sad times - all self-inflicted.
What a melodramatic jessie
Chill man - you got what you wanted - the second referendum and an independent Scotland.
Far from certain yet , but getting there, especially if May the Merciless gets control
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Who alienated her or and what did they do to make her feel unwanted? Or has she just been listening to too much of your bullcrap?
I'm not as vehement about it as tyson, and accept that Leave supporters come in all shapes and sizes. But I have a lot of non-UK EU national friends who do all, without exception, range from dismay to sadness to anger and feel very personally rejected. One friend who was looking for a senior IT job in Britain has cancelled all her applications here, because she doesn't want to live in a country where she believes she'd be unwelcome.
Whoever wins as new PM could do worse than offering some reassuring words, rather than merely treating the right of EU nationals already here to remain as a bargaining chip, as May has just done.
And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.
Sad, sad times - all self-inflicted.
What a melodramatic jessie
Chill man - you got what you wanted - the second referendum and an independent Scotland.
Far from certain yet , but getting there, especially if May the Merciless gets control
'And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.'
My Asian neighbours, husband owns IT company & wife a lawyer both voted Brexit & have been unhappy with the EU for many years.When they were at our house yesterday they were very happy with the result,no mention of unease.
Strange you don't mention the hate crimes against the Brits in Brussels but I guess it doesn't fit your narrative.
What we're seeing are a few Remainers desperately trying to find evidence of hostility which they can blame on the British people.
And when they can't they make up these stories about feelings of unease of sense of hostility.
It should be noted that these Remainers all seem to live in London - so if there is an outbreak of hostility then its likely coming from other people who voted Remain.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Moves into stage 2 of the grieving process.
Next stop... Stage 3 is there a book open on this?
Tyson I work in the Uk with a nationals from other EU countries ( they are in the majority ) and they just do not feel the same as you they just don't.
I think your long line of horrible abusive comments actually tell us more about you personally. I am now really sick and tired of your constant whining and bleating. If you want to make a stand then fine, come and live here in the UK and stand up and do something rather than pour vile scorn from your veranda chair on the sun drizzled terrace of your Italian utopia. Until such time you do come here and stand up then pardon my French but just FUCK OFF !
The new PM will negotiate a quasi-EU deal that is worse than being in the EU in almost any way. The howls of betrayal and the rush to Ukip will mainly destabilise Labour, affecting perhaps a few east-coast Tory MPs. The new government will continue to cut living standards for below-average earners and place the blame on immigrants, Europe and rootless cosmopolitans, becoming the US Republican Party without the religious aspect. It makes perfect sense and would deliver at least one election to the government. It doesn't have to happen but it can happen.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Who alienated her or and what did they do to make her feel unwanted? Or has she just been listening to too much of your bullcrap?
I'm not as vehement about it as tyson, and accept that Leave supporters come in all shapes and sizes. But I have a lot of non-UK EU national friends who do all, without exception, range from dismay to sadness to anger and feel very personally rejected. One friend who was looking for a senior IT job in Britain has cancelled all her applications here, because she doesn't want to live in a country where she believes she'd be unwelcome.
Whoever wins as new PM could do worse than offering some reassuring words, rather than merely treating the right of EU nationals already here to remain as a bargaining chip, as May has just done.
And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.
Sad, sad times - all self-inflicted.
What a melodramatic jessie
Chill man - you got what you wanted - the second referendum and an independent Scotland.
Far from certain yet , but getting there, especially if May the Merciless gets control
Far from certain? Surely not
KLE , not counting chickens just yet, I would not put it beyond the slippery Tories to fudge and ignore the vote.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Who alienated her or and what did they do to make her feel unwanted? Or has she just been listening to too much of your bullcrap?
I'm not as vehement about it as tyson, and accept that Leave supporters come in all shapes and sizes. But I have a lot of non-UK EU national friends who do all, without exception, range from dismay to sadness to anger and feel very personally rejected. One friend who was looking for a senior IT job in Britain has cancelled all her applications here, because she doesn't want to live in a country where she believes she'd be unwelcome.
Whoever wins as new PM could do worse than offering some reassuring words, rather than merely treating the right of EU nationals already here to remain as a bargaining chip, as May has just done.
And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.
Sad, sad times - all self-inflicted.
What a melodramatic jessie
Chill man - you got what you wanted - the second referendum and an independent Scotland.
Far from certain yet , but getting there, especially if May the Merciless gets control
Malc, if Scotland gets powers over fisheries and agriculture back from the EU under Brexit (pretty much inevitable if we get a good post-Brexit PM who wants to keep Scotland on board), would you be happy campaigning on a platform to take these away from Scotland and give them to the EU? Take Scottish fishermen's jobs away and give up fishing quotas in Scotland's waters to trawlers from the EU? How can you sell this to anyone, or yourself for that matter?
"... Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics..."
Or perhaps they are people who took a view based on their experience over many years and the arguments for and against and came to a different conclusion than some others whose views they respected but disagreed with.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
Liar Liar Pants On Fire
You've said here more than once that you'd never knowingly be friends with a Tory.
No- I said I could never have a long term intimate relationship with an ideological female right wing zealot. I find them particularly unattractive. But I guess the feeling would be mutual so no love lost.
My oldest and dearest friend is a staunch, libertarian Tory right winger who probably would never admit to me if he voted Brexit or not.
'And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.'
My Asian neighbours, husband owns IT company & wife a lawyer both voted Brexit & have been unhappy with the EU for many years.When they were at our house yesterday they were very happy with the result,no mention of unease.
Strange you don't mention the hate crimes against the Brits in Brussels but I guess it doesn't fit your narrative.
What we're seeing are a few Remainers desperately trying to find evidence of hostility which they can blame on the British people.
And when they can't they make up these stories about feelings of unease of sense of hostility.
It should be noted that these Remainers all seem to live in London - so if there is an outbreak of hostility then its likely coming from other people who voted Remain.
I've already mentioned West Yorkshire. Calderdale if you want me to be more specific.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Well people like you and tyson are certainly showing no sense of fair play and a refusal to tolerate what you consider deviant thoughts that is for sure.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
Wow - you've cancelled on your brother and your friend?
Friendships and family are more important than the EU, surely?
Not if you're an odious tosspot.
Or making it up, as noted it's inconsistent with his previous statements.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Hear hear!
Whatever people say, the nasty undercurrent of racism and bigotry in British society has been given a shot in the arm after the Leave vote. Let's see how this plays out but I for am am not optimistic.
We all need to make the best of the fact we will now live in a poorer, less tolerant, inward looking and isolated country. Move on and face a bleaker future,,,
There's certainly been a good deal of bigotry and nastiness directed at older people and working class voters by people who seem intent on poisoning the well.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
we dragged them down to our level and beat them on experience :-)
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
The marginalisation of England’s poorest and the obsession with the Westminster game were the forces that powered the vote for Brexit. That triumph has sent the pound plummeting, forced the resignation of the Prime Minister and thrown Labour into crisis. It has emboldened the far right across Europe and has been followed by a series of attacks on Britain’s ethnic minorities. It may yet presage the break-up of the United Kingdom and unravel peace in Northern Ireland. The fruits of ignoring its consequences in favour of the parliamentary game may be bitterer still.
My wife, like many other foreigners now feel unwanted. They feel alienated in England. I actually am trying to reassure her, but I am not her, and can only imagine how this feels.
In terms of the future of Brexit- I think there will almost certainly have to be a GE before Article 50 is invoked which effectively will be our second referendum.
I actually hold some degree of hope that May will be our Angela Merkel- and she could well end up as PM as some kind of Govt of National Unity as the UK implodes into political and economic chaos.
"My wife, like many other foreigners now feel unwanted. They feel alienated in England."
Why do you always refer to it as England? You do realise Wales voted out as well and many others in Scotland and Ireland.
"Many other foreigners" ...have you asked the many other foreigners? No you haven't so stop please just stop making shit up.
I think your agenda is anything but your wife but simply your hatred of England which was always very obvious. You even congratulated Wales on the Euro win but seemed to forget entirely their exit vote. No such abuse or hatred for them then heh? Only for England ?... Mmmmm....
Is the remain policy now that, since our doors are already wide open to uncontrolled immigration, they must remain that way forever, primarily because getting any change to that policy will hurt the feelings of people who arrived here as migrants?
'Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics..."
Or perhaps they are people who took a view based on their experience over many years and the arguments for and against and came to a different conclusion than some others whose views they respected but disagreed with.'
This is the same crap we had when anyone wanted to discuss immigration during the New Labour years, just smear them as racists and thereby censor the discussion.
Tyson is clearly not bright enough to realize that smears & sweeping ill informed ignorant generalizations don't work.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
That is indeed a critical point. It may be in years to come I am forced to confess to being an idiot, should the worst case scenario occur, but I would feel mitigated in that idiocy somewhat in that the EU has done a terrible job justifying its own existence.
I want the result of the referendum delivered in its widely understood sense
And what exactly is "its widely understood sense"?
None of the candidates could articulate it during the campaign. What exactly does it look like?
For all Leavers, this is actually a fair point, in my view. Something this crucial should not be based on assumptions of what was understood. The point that was clear was leave, the other details may need democratic clarification too, in the form of a GE on what negotiating stance to take.
'And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.'
My Asian neighbours, husband owns IT company & wife a lawyer both voted Brexit & have been unhappy with the EU for many years.When they were at our house yesterday they were very happy with the result,no mention of unease.
Strange you don't mention the hate crimes against the Brits in Brussels but I guess it doesn't fit your narrative.
What we're seeing are a few Remainers desperately trying to find evidence of hostility which they can blame on the British people.
And when they can't they make up these stories about feelings of unease of sense of hostility.
It should be noted that these Remainers all seem to live in London - so if there is an outbreak of hostility then its likely coming from other people who voted Remain.
AR, it's anecdotal, but many of my foreign friends here in the UK have been upset by this result. I care little if you believe it or not, or if you think they're stupid for feeling like this. But it's true, and it could be a problem for the country as they're all educated and well-paid. It's what comes from my seven best friends all marrying foreigners.
Do you really believe people are making up these stories? If so, it says more about you than them.
As an example I've given before, here's one from a friend who's an architect, recently arrived from Germany:
"... after three days still devastated and somehow not feeling welcome anymore.."
And many more from her and others. As to why: I'd say the the tone of the Brexit campaign might have had something to do with it. Feel free to disagree.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
you sound like a sore loser, with sour grapes, and a massive chip on your shoulder because a democratic vote didn't go the way you wanted, just like the 40,000 protesters in London today. get over it, its called democracy!, even Tony Benn who was of your political persuasion strongly supported democracy, and had no love for the EU, there are always losers in a democracy where the majority decides. besides who wants to be ruled by unelected socialist Eurocrats who we can't vote out when they screw us!, and besides I think you have issues with your brother too if you can disown him for not voting the same way as you. My brother is a remainer living in Spain, we disagree, but he's still my brother we don't fall out over it, grow up man!
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
Wow - you've cancelled on your brother and your friend?
Friendships and family are more important than the EU, surely?
Not if you're an odious tosspot.
Or making it up, as noted it's inconsistent with his previous statements.
There is a back story on both. Brexit was just the straw that broke the camels back. I'm very generous usually, but actually my generosity kind of falls short when I am taunted about Brexit by my family and friends who know how I feel about it, that my wife is Italian and so forth, and who over the years have taken my generosity for granted.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Richard, I'd hope after you calm down you'd retract that. It looks really bad.
Yes, Tyson's upset at the referendum result and is intemperate. Sadly, unlike SeanT, he's not witty when angry. But what you wrote above is just plain nasty.
He is not witty at all and for you to allude that it is OK if it is Sean doing it but not someone else tends to blunt your faux outrage at Richard's comments. Selective "nasty" is far worse than the comment.
No it isn't: but the tone of SeanT's posts, along with his frequent swings one way and t'other means it's slightly harder to take him seriously when he's in one of his moods.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Yes there's no resentment or spite being shown here by Remainers whatsoever.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
Wow - you've cancelled on your brother and your friend?
Friendships and family are more important than the EU, surely?
Not if you're an odious tosspot.
Or making it up, as noted it's inconsistent with his previous statements.
There is a back story on both. Brexit was just the straw that broke the camels back. I'm very generous usually, but actually my generosity kind of falls short when I am taunted about Brexit by my family and friends who know how I feel about it, that my wife is Italian and so forth, and who over the years have taken my generosity for granted.
Tyson wins the PB plonker of the Year competition 2016.
"sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life... "
The point that was clear was leave, the other details may need democratic clarification too, in the form of a GE on what negotiating stance to take.
Indeed.
And in 3 months, Theresa May going to the country on a platform of single market access with free movement to stabilise the economy would win in a landslide.
Andrea Leadsom on a platform of closed borders, no £350m, and economic chaos, would lose to Jeremy Corbyn
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Richard, I'd hope after you calm down you'd retract that. It looks really bad.
Yes, Tyson's upset at the referendum result and is intemperate. Sadly, unlike SeanT, he's not witty when angry. But what you wrote above is just plain nasty.
And what Tyson said about people who voted to Leave wasn't?
I'm not defending Tyson's comments; I've said before he sometimes goes too far with what he says.
But Richard is generally a poster who tries to add value to his site, I think more than Tyson. I don't always agree with him (cough) last night (cough), but he generally approaches things in an evidence-based way that I appreciate, even when I disagree with him.
As an aside, perhaps some people blasting Tyson should actually think whether he's got a point despite his language. Friends of mine are also feeling rather unloved by Britain. Closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalalala will not help the country.
That's simply the remainers being on the wrong side of the argument for a change.
It's been pointed out for years that constantly ignoring the views of large segments of the electorate would lead to them pushing back. The people moaning have sung lalala for 15 years and now sound surprised that what worked for them has been rejected by the majority of their compatriots.
Indeed. But that is no reason to do the same now you have the ascendancy.
Leadsom may be committed but she is an unknown and inexperienced, the idea that her commitment to Brexit would trump that is simplistic. Every single one of the entrants has to make Brexit work as well as possible, none of them will want to fail so being a Remainer or a Leaver no longer matters. It is about doing the job in front of you and although in an ideal world May wouldn't be a frontrunner for me this isn't a perfect world and she the best about.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Richard, I'd hope after you calm down you'd retract that. It looks really bad.
Yes, Tyson's upset at the referendum result and is intemperate. Sadly, unlike SeanT, he's not witty when angry. But what you wrote above is just plain nasty.
And what Tyson said about people who voted to Leave wasn't?
I'm not defending Tyson's comments; I've said before he sometimes goes too far with what he says.
But Richard is generally a poster who tries to add value to his site, I think more than Tyson. I don't always agree with him (cough) last night (cough), but he generally approaches things in an evidence-based way that I appreciate, even when I disagree with him.
As an aside, perhaps some people blasting Tyson should actually think whether he's got a point despite his language. Friends of mine are also feeling rather unloved by Britain. Closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalalala will not help the country.
Hold on till I get this violin tuned up, you almost brought a tear to my glass eye there.
Malc, once again you're showing why we all love you so much.
So the favourite for the leadership is a Remain supporting politician who did virtually nothing in the referendum campaign and who has been Home Secretary for six years, given the brief of reducing immigration to the tens of thousands and who failed spectacularly...it could only happen in the Conservative Party
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Richard, I'd hope after you calm down you'd retract that. It looks really bad.
Yes, Tyson's upset at the referendum result and is intemperate. Sadly, unlike SeanT, he's not witty when angry. But what you wrote above is just plain nasty.
And what Tyson said about people who voted to Leave wasn't?
I'm not defending Tyson's comments; I've said befolp the country.
That's simply the remainers being on the wrong side of the argument for a change.
It's been pointed out for years that constantly ignoring the views of large segments of the electorate would lead to them pushing back. The people moaning have sung lalala for 15 years and now sound surprised that what worked for them has been rejected by the majority of their compatriots.
Indeed. But that is no reason to do the same now you have the ascendancy.
And who's doing that ? Most of the lalala on the site is Leavers reacting to remainers who think the campaign is still running. Give it a rest and maybe we can discuss the issues with the new facts in front of us.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Poor Remain, that had every advantage of Government, civil service, £9m of tax-payers cash, the US President, Project Fear, David Beckham, big business, Brussels, the City, David Cameron, economic collapse if it failed - yet still blew it. And all Leave had was Ian Botham and the right to determine our own destiny, rather than take that given to us by the EU....
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Poor Remain, that had every advantage of Government, civil service, £9m of tax-payers cash, the US President, Project Fear, David Beckham, big business, Brussels, the City, David Cameron, economic collapse if it failed - yet still blew it. And all Leave had was Ian Botham and the right to determine our own destiny, rather than take that given to us by the EU....
The point that was clear was leave, the other details may need democratic clarification too, in the form of a GE on what negotiating stance to take.
Indeed.
And in 3 months, Theresa May going to the country on a platform of single market access with free movement to stabilise the economy would win in a landslide.
Andrea Leadsom on a platform of closed borders, no £350m, and economic chaos, would lose to Jeremy Corbyn
You are delusional.
Leadsom just won a majority of the nation backing precisely that.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Yes there's no resentment or spite being shown here by Remainers whatsoever.
One or two, particularly Tyson atm. But you can hardly say that leavers are being paragons of virtue either.
Some leavers are coming across as being the worst winners ever. It's as if they'd (some, not all) written their program expecting to lose, and have not been able to reprogram themselves for victory.
Worse, the denial we see on here from leavers about the dismay and problems the vote has caused does not bode well for the future.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Richard, I'd hope after you calm down you'd retract that. It looks really bad.
Yes, Tyson's upset at the referendum result and is intemperate. Sadly, unlike SeanT, he's not witty when angry. But what you wrote above is just plain nasty.
He is not witty at all and for you to allude that it is OK if it is Sean doing it but not someone else tends to blunt your faux outrage at Richard's comments. Selective "nasty" is far worse than the comment.
No it isn't: but the tone of SeanT's posts, along with his frequent swings one way and t'other means it's slightly harder to take him seriously when he's in one of his moods.
As for your last sentence: lol.
If you notice Josias- I very rarely make any personal attacks on other posters. I am much more polemical in my arguments which is why I attract a fair whack of hostility which is fair enough to be honest. I do dish it out.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Poor Remain, that had every advantage of Government, civil service, £9m of tax-payers cash, the US President, Project Fear, David Beckham, big business, Brussels, the City, David Cameron, economic collapse if it failed - yet still blew it. And all Leave had was Ian Botham and the right to determine our own destiny, rather than take that given to us by the EU....
We'd that chappy from Wetherspoons too with his beermats. If ever there was a David vs Goliath triumph it was Brexit.
So the favourite for the leadership is a Remain supporting politician who did virtually nothing in the referendum campaign and who has been Home Secretary for six years, given the brief of reducing immigration to the tens of thousands and who failed spectacularly...it could only happen in the Conservative Party
In fairness though, reducing immigration to the tens of thousands was an impossible target given the thriving economy. David Cameron takes the blame for that unfulfillable promise.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Poor Remain, that had every advantage of Government, civil service, £9m of tax-payers cash, the US President, Project Fear, David Beckham, big business, Brussels, the City, David Cameron, economic collapse if it failed - yet still blew it. And all Leave had was Ian Botham and the right to determine our own destiny, rather than take that given to us by the EU....
You wouldn't think that from the people marching today. Apparently the campaign was fought on a uneven basis towards leave & that wasn't fair & so they are marching.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Richard, I'd hope after you calm down you'd retract that. It looks really bad.
Yes, Tyson's upset at the referendum result and is intemperate. Sadly, unlike SeanT, he's not witty when angry. But what you wrote above is just plain nasty.
And what Tyson said about people who voted to Leave wasn't?
I'm not defending Tyson's comments; I've said befolp the country.
That's simply the remainers being on the wrong side of the argument for a change.
It's been pointed out for years that constantly ignoring the views of large segments of the electorate would lead to them pushing back. The people moaning have sung lalala for 15 years and now sound surprised that what worked for them has been rejected by the majority of their compatriots.
Indeed. But that is no reason to do the same now you have the ascendancy.
And who's doing that ? Most of the lalala on the site is Leavers reacting to remainers who think the campaign is still running. Give it a rest and maybe we can discuss the issues with the new facts in front of us.
As one example people who say the vote hasn't caused problems and splits, as we've seen on this very thread.
I'd suggest you take your own advice and give it a rest.
Some leavers are coming across as being the worst winners ever. It's as if they'd (some, not all) written their program expecting to lose, and have not been able to reprogram themselves for victory.
Worse, the denial we see on here from leavers about the dismay and problems the vote has caused does not bode well for the future.
That's the amusing bit.
The debate in Parliament on Monday was hilarious. Brexiteer Tory backbenchers were lined up one after the other to whine at the PM "Why are you not fixing our shit?"
Careful Mr. G, that comes close to be a moustacheist comment. There is nothing wrong, for all what P.G. Wodehouse said, in having a moustache, indeed there is much to commend it.
(memo: to self pop into the awfully nice Turkish barber's next week and have the old walrus trimmed back.)
By the way Mr. G. I was up in Leeds the week before last and in a Tesco's Express, an express mind you, a bottle of the Grouse was £15 but a litre was just £16. I don't know how the Scottish economy copes with such crazy pricing.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Poor Remain, that had every advantage of Government, civil service, £9m of tax-payers cash, the US President, Project Fear, David Beckham, big business, Brussels, the City, David Cameron, economic collapse if it failed - yet still blew it. And all Leave had was Ian Botham and the right to determine our own destiny, rather than take that given to us by the EU....
We'd that chappy from Wetherspoons too with his beermats. If ever there was a David vs Goliath triumph it was Brexit.
It's about time plucky underdogs Rupert Murdoch and Lord Rothermere came out on top :-D
Of course, winning a referendum is one thing. You now have to make Brexit work. For people with jobs, mortgages, children, businesses, research projects and so on that's what actually counts. So far, what we know is that Leavers are utterly clueless as to what should happen next. A true triumph.
So the favourite for the leadership is a Remain supporting politician who did virtually nothing in the referendum campaign and who has been Home Secretary for six years, given the brief of reducing immigration to the tens of thousands and who failed spectacularly...it could only happen in the Conservative Party
In fairness though, reducing immigration to the tens of thousands was an impossible target given the thriving economy. David Cameron takes the blame for that unfulfillable promise.
The "unfulfillable promise" was in fact an "ambition" - see the Tory manifesto.
As to why: I'd say the the tone of the Brexit campaign might have had something to do with it. Feel free to disagree.
I think is has much more to do with the bigotry and closed mindedness of Remainers.
If you're constantly claiming that Leave is racism and Leave wants foreigners out then a Leave win would imply the nation is racist and wants foreigners out.
Of course the Leave campaign as led by Johnson, Gove, Leadsom etc were nothing of the sort but why let facts get in the way?
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Richard, I'd hope after you calm down you'd retract that. It looks really bad.
Yes, Tyson's upset at the referendum result and is intemperate. Sadly, unlike SeanT, he's not witty when angry. But what you wrote above is just plain nasty.
He is not witty at all and for you to allude that it is OK if it is Sean doing it but not someone else tends to blunt your faux outrage at Richard's comments. Selective "nasty" is far worse than the comment.
No it isn't: but the tone of SeanT's posts, along with his frequent swings one way and t'other means it's slightly harder to take him seriously when he's in one of his moods.
As for your last sentence: lol.
If you notice Josias- I very rarely make any personal attacks on other posters.
True. You tend to restrict your personal attacks to Plato. As i have said already you're just not a very nice person.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
Tyson is just a whining maggot infesting the rotten apple core that is the EU. The sooner he decides to leave the UK permanently the better.
Bit harsh Richard!!
Not at all , he is like a broken record and does not even live in the country.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Contrary to what Plato thinks I have some very dear friends who are staunch Tories....but Brexit sadly, is a bridge too far.
I think in the future the word Brexit will be as contemptuous and vile as the movement behind it. It will be synonymous with nihilism, racism, populism, reactionary right wing ideologues, hate and negativity.
Liar Liar Pants On Fire
You've said here more than once that you'd never knowingly be friends with a Tory.
No- I said I could never have a long term intimate relationship with an ideological female right wing zealot. I find them particularly unattractive. But I guess the feeling would be mutual so no love lost. My oldest and dearest friend is a staunch, libertarian Tory right winger who probably would never admit to me if he voted Brexit or not.
Tyson "No- I said I could never have a long term intimate relationship with an ideological female right wing zealot. I find them particularly unattractive."
Q: Do they have a peculiar smell or have features that repell you or are you just a sad inadequate man?
Of course, winning a referendum is one thing. You now have to make Brexit work. For people with jobs, mortgages, children, businesses, research projects and so on that's what actually counts. So far, what we know is that Leavers are utterly clueless as to what should happen next. A true triumph.
Right...I live in a beautiful flat, part of a Tuscan Villa, in the Tuscan Hills, overlooking the City of Florence. We normally lend it to friends and family when we are away....sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life, a Brexit free home, a Brexit free area, Brexitless friends, including family.
Before the secret ballot was introduced, it used to be that the upper classes would turf those dependent on them out of their jobs or houses for having the temerity to vote against their wishes. "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?"
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Poor Remain, that had every advantage of Government, civil service, £9m of tax-payers cash, the US President, Project Fear, David Beckham, big business, Brussels, the City, David Cameron, economic collapse if it failed - yet still blew it. And all Leave had was Ian Botham and the right to determine our own destiny, rather than take that given to us by the EU....
You wouldn't think that from the people marching today. Apparently the campaign was fought on a uneven basis towards leave & that wasn't fair & so they are marching.
The Times is packed with crying Remainer columnists. They've penned so many embarrassingly childish and anti-democratic articles since last Friday - I now skip straight to the comments instead.
I still can't get over Anna Botting on Sky last Sunday - she looked ready to punch Frank Field, and he'd not uttered a word.
In a perverse way I'm now hoping Trump is victorious in the US, because that would at least suggest that we don't have the monopoly on cretinous bigots. But, either way, Britain's reputation as a nation of fair play and tolerance is in tatters.
Your making an awful lot out of the fact that the supposedly intellectually superior Remainers had a campaign that was unable to convince the population of the merit of their case. If you can't win an argument against idiots, what does that say?
Yes, the things that Remain got wrong are almost too numerous to mention. Nevertheless, Leave ruthlessly tapped in to the nation's dark underbelly of resentment and spite . Poor Remain, with its old-fashioned ideas of cooperation and decency, never stood a chance.
Yes there's no resentment or spite being shown here by Remainers whatsoever.
One or two, particularly Tyson atm. But you can hardly say that leavers are being paragons of virtue either.
Some leavers are coming across as being the worst winners ever. It's as if they'd (some, not all) written their program expecting to lose, and have not been able to reprogram themselves for victory.
Worse, the denial we see on here from leavers about the dismay and problems the vote has caused does not bode well for the future.
It would probably help if remainers could accept there were a wide range of reasons leavers voted as they did.
The tedious putting words in peoples mouths shows little acceptance of this fact
I did not for one miunte expect £350m for the NHS I dont expect immigration to come to a halt I havent joined the KKK
yet the spinners on the site cant talk about anything else. it explains in many ways why they lost, they are interested only in their own infatuations rather than the voting publics opinions,
Comments
We've had Government by expediency for the past 10 years. It has got the country precisely nowhere.
Hate alive and well on the Left....
Lab + 12.5 seats @ 1.07
'And this is what the headbanging right-wing fruitcakes on here are missing. There is now a general feeling of unease among ethnic minorities. I think pretty much most (though not all) of my BAME friends feel this. When you hear and read about the surge in hate crime, this only reinforces the feeling of unease.'
My Asian neighbours, husband owns IT company & wife a lawyer both voted Brexit & have been unhappy with the EU for many years.When they were at our house yesterday they were very happy with the result,no mention of unease.
Strange you don't mention the hate crimes against the Brits in Brussels but I guess it doesn't fit your narrative.
There is hate dropping from every word there. You're claiming you hate your Brothers vote so much you will not havie him in your home or your life or even your family.
You are the hate-filled individual here. Deal with your own hatred before you accuse others of hating.
Are the "others" generally left or right parties?
- those who want to do right for all of the country - generally radical one-nationers
- those who want to do right for those who have the most (i.e. also the most to lose) in the country - small C conservatives
And when they can't they make up these stories about feelings of unease of sense of hostility.
It should be noted that these Remainers all seem to live in London - so if there is an outbreak of hostility then its likely coming from other people who voted Remain.
They're ahead in all of them. Projected to win 4, but tight.
Moves into stage 2 of the grieving process.
Next stop... Stage 3 is there a book open on this?
Tyson I work in the Uk with a nationals from other EU countries ( they are in the majority ) and they just do not feel the same as you they just don't.
I think your long line of horrible abusive comments actually tell us more about you personally. I am now really sick and tired of your constant whining and bleating. If you want to make a stand then fine, come and live here in the UK and stand up and do something rather than pour vile scorn from your veranda chair on the sun drizzled terrace of your Italian utopia. Until such time you do come here and stand up then pardon my French but just FUCK OFF !
Or perhaps they are people who took a view based on their experience over many years and the arguments for and against and came to a different conclusion than some others whose views they respected but disagreed with.
My oldest and dearest friend is a staunch, libertarian Tory right winger who probably would never admit to me if he voted Brexit or not.
ROFL
Or making it up, as noted it's inconsistent with his previous statements.
None of the candidates could articulate it during the campaign. What exactly does it look like?
CMD
RIP
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/07/westminster-has-yet-come-terms-consequences-brexit
Why do you always refer to it as England? You do realise Wales voted out as well and many others in Scotland and Ireland.
"Many other foreigners" ...have you asked the many other foreigners? No you haven't so stop please just stop making shit up.
I think your agenda is anything but your wife but simply your hatred of England which was always very obvious. You even congratulated Wales on the Euro win but seemed to forget entirely their exit vote. No such abuse or hatred for them then heh? Only for England ?... Mmmmm....
It would be funny if it weren't so tragic
'Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics..."
Or perhaps they are people who took a view based on their experience over many years and the arguments for and against and came to a different conclusion than some others whose views they respected but disagreed with.'
This is the same crap we had when anyone wanted to discuss immigration during the New Labour years, just smear them as racists and thereby censor the discussion.
Tyson is clearly not bright enough to realize that smears & sweeping ill informed ignorant generalizations don't work.
A marker has been set which will change how british politics is run in future. The mould has been broken and the new one not yet made.
Do you really believe people are making up these stories? If so, it says more about you than them.
As an example I've given before, here's one from a friend who's an architect, recently arrived from Germany:
"... after three days still devastated and somehow not feeling welcome anymore.."
And many more from her and others. As to why: I'd say the the tone of the Brexit campaign might have had something to do with it. Feel free to disagree.
As for your last sentence: lol.
"sadly, I have had to cancel 2 invitations to Brexiters, my Brexit brother and his Brexit family, and a Brexit friend (well ex) after last week. I want a Brexit free life... "
And in 3 months, Theresa May going to the country on a platform of single market access with free movement to stabilise the economy would win in a landslide.
Andrea Leadsom on a platform of closed borders, no £350m, and economic chaos, would lose to Jeremy Corbyn
Every single one of the entrants has to make Brexit work as well as possible, none of them will want to fail so being a Remainer or a Leaver no longer matters. It is about doing the job in front of you and although in an ideal world May wouldn't be a frontrunner for me this isn't a perfect world and she the best about.
Squeal, squeal, squeal.
Leadsom just won a majority of the nation backing precisely that.
Some leavers are coming across as being the worst winners ever. It's as if they'd (some, not all) written their program expecting to lose, and have not been able to reprogram themselves for victory.
Worse, the denial we see on here from leavers about the dismay and problems the vote has caused does not bode well for the future.
The manifesto at an election in 3 months time will be tempered by the economic reality, not the undiluted fantasy of the referendum campaign.
We'd that chappy from Wetherspoons too with his beermats. If ever there was a David vs Goliath triumph it was Brexit.
Thousands at 'March for Europe' Brexit protest
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36692990
I'd suggest you take your own advice and give it a rest.
The debate in Parliament on Monday was hilarious. Brexiteer Tory backbenchers were lined up one after the other to whine at the PM "Why are you not fixing our shit?"
"It is the moustache that is worrying me."
Careful Mr. G, that comes close to be a moustacheist comment. There is nothing wrong, for all what P.G. Wodehouse said, in having a moustache, indeed there is much to commend it.
(memo: to self pop into the awfully nice Turkish barber's next week and have the old walrus trimmed back.)
By the way Mr. G. I was up in Leeds the week before last and in a Tesco's Express, an express mind you, a bottle of the Grouse was £15 but a litre was just £16. I don't know how the Scottish economy copes with such crazy pricing.
Of course, winning a referendum is one thing. You now have to make Brexit work. For people with jobs, mortgages, children, businesses, research projects and so on that's what actually counts. So far, what we know is that Leavers are utterly clueless as to what should happen next. A true triumph.
If you're constantly claiming that Leave is racism and Leave wants foreigners out then a Leave win would imply the nation is racist and wants foreigners out.
Of course the Leave campaign as led by Johnson, Gove, Leadsom etc were nothing of the sort but why let facts get in the way?
Q: Do they have a peculiar smell or have features that repell you or are you just a sad inadequate man?
Apparently all you need is to believe enough...
I still can't get over Anna Botting on Sky last Sunday - she looked ready to punch Frank Field, and he'd not uttered a word.
The tedious putting words in peoples mouths shows little acceptance of this fact
I did not for one miunte expect £350m for the NHS
I dont expect immigration to come to a halt
I havent joined the KKK
yet the spinners on the site cant talk about anything else. it explains in many ways why they lost, they are interested only in their own infatuations rather than the voting publics opinions,