Fascinating to watch the Australian election. My guess (and it's only that) is that the Coalition will probably win most seats but the ALP-Green bloc might have the edge.
Great result in Mayo for NXT - they are orange and their leader's called Nick so that's good enough for me.
Vote NCT - the Nick Clegg Team - for AV and the compulsory teaching of classical history with special emphasis on the Second Punic War (that's really for Mr Eagles).
Until 2010, Australia had the largest constituency in the world. According to the Guiness World Records:
"The Kalgoorlie Australian federal parliamentary constituency in Western Australia covers more than 2,600,000km2 (1,000,000miles2), an area greater than the whole of western Europe. The constituency measures 2,250km (1,400miles) from north to south and 1,600 km (1,000miles) from east to west and covers the whole state of Western Australia except for the Perth urban area in the southwest."
It's been split since (with other changes) into Durack and O'Connor divisions, with Durack being the larger, at 629000 square miles (or about seven times the area of the UK).
House Speaker Paul Ryan is calling for the United States to pursue a free trade agreement with the United Kingdom once it has formally separated from the European Union, saying discussions should begin now in order to ease concerns and ensure a "smooth trade relationship."
"We need to emphasize that they are our indispensable ally," Ryan told Milwaukee’s WISN radio. "We have a special relationship, and I think that does mean we should have a trade agreement with ... Great Britain."
Mr. P, Hannan, as far as I know, never referred to the £350m or migration himself, he presented a different case. You can't hold Protestants accountable for the views of the Pope.
@MSmithsonPB: .@benrathe Stan James is offering 11/4 on Article 50 not being invoked until Jan 1 2018 or later if at all
Inconceivable it will be that late. I'd say 2-3 months (I think a Tory leader would come under immense pressure to do it at once, on the basis that what type of negotiated settlement they want will form part of their pitch to the party)
It is perfectly possible.
Working backwards, the next election is May 2020, dissolution will be March 2020 and that is when the government will be held to account for delivering on Brexit so allowing for a two year negotiation period takes us back to Q1 2018.
Between Q3 2016 and Q4 2017, all the foundation work is done on negotiation, teams etc.
I personally think the second half of 2017 is most likely to be the trigger date but can understand why Q1 2018 is a distinct possibility.
I don't understand the Australian "Coalition". The Liberals, Liberal Nationals, Nationals and Country Liberals are all separate parties and fight against each other so that Murray will be a Nat gain from the Libs.
However, Abbott was a National and Turnbull is a Liberal and the MPs of both parties orchestrated Abbott's ousting in 2015.
Mr. P, Hannan, as far as I know, never referred to the £350m or migration himself, he presented a different case. You can't hold Protestants accountable for the views of the Pope.
But he is a Catholic. He worships the same God, but is now trying to pretend he was never in the same Church.
Until 2010, Australia had the largest constituency in the world. According to the Guiness World Records:
"The Kalgoorlie Australian federal parliamentary constituency in Western Australia covers more than 2,600,000km2 (1,000,000miles2), an area greater than the whole of western Europe. The constituency measures 2,250km (1,400miles) from north to south and 1,600 km (1,000miles) from east to west and covers the whole state of Western Australia except for the Perth urban area in the southwest."
It's been split since (with other changes) into Durack and O'Connor divisions, with Durack being the larger, at 629000 square miles (or about seven times the area of the UK).
Yes but so few people in Western Australia per head. Australia is over 30 times the size of the UK with about a third of the population
I've been rather busy this week and haven't been able to keep in touch with the news.
So would PBers be kind enough to give me a brief update on:
1) What tax rises and spending cuts were in Osborne's promised Emergency Budget.
2) How far the stock market has crashed. I assume from the BBC reports that the FTSE100 is now below 5,000 maybe even below 4,000.
FTSE100 is denominated in sterling, which is down almost 10 per cent versus the euro since people thought REMAIN would win, never mind the dollar.
So what if its denominated in Sterling.
If I buy shares I pay in Sterling, if I sell shares I get paid in Sterling.
My pay is denominated in Sterling as are the things I spend it on.
I've never noticed this obsession with converting Sterling denominated items into foreign currencies before this week.
If AstraZeneca or Standard Chartered earns money, they probably don't get paid in sterling.
If you spend money on things that come from places that aren't the UK, your supplier has to make up the difference between the value of GBP on 23 June and now. That will eventually affect you, but it may take longer than 8 days.
So in other words changes in the world economy may have an effect on me.
And I'm all in favour of imported consumer tat and foreign holidays becoming more expensive - that a prerequisite for reducing the £100bn balance of payments deficit the UK had in 2015.
Likewise export oriented British businesses should get a nice boost.
People are reinterpreting the referendum result on an a la carte basis. But there was in fact a clear statement what the official campaign were looking for. It is now being ignored.
And whenever I point that out, Leavers get irate with me. It is all very odd. It is as if there was a deliberate attempt to dupe the British public and now we're supposed not to notice.
I'm nose.
I'm old fashioned enough to believe that there should at least be an attempt to implement a manifesto after an election victory. Not even to try is a fraud on the voters.
You're clearly so old fashioned you see manifestos for Leave, when actually what you linked to was a plan by VoteLeave, which is not the same thing at all. Remember the other Leave campaigns? VoteLeave was biggest, most influential, but not the whole, so it's 'manifesto' cannot be taken to be the manifesto for all. To pretend otherwise is presenting a fraudulent proposition (which we got enough of with the campaigns, thank you). Leave was heavily influenced by but was not VoteLeave. Pretending otherwise is preposterous
And I didn't say people should not try. They are trying now to implement the whole thing, and I can dislike aspects of it, but could not complain as it was one of the options of a Leave vote. But they might not succeed. And that would be ok to. Your insistence that only one prospectus is permitted when the question did not specify that and other views were part of the overall campaign, is farcical.
It's a little baffling, as I know for certain you are more intelligent than I am by far, but you've adopted this unbending insistence based on a premise that is simply factually incorrect, that VoteLeave equals AllLeave, that we assume everyone must want every part of it, and now we are bound to that.
They will be hell to pay if we don't implement their promises, but it wouldn't be a betrayal of anyone, and if they think that, they can vote for someone who will implement them. They will have other chances.
Inconceivable it will be that late. I'd say 2-3 months (I think a Tory leader would come under immense pressure to do it at once, on the basis that what type of negotiated settlement they want will form part of their pitch to the party)
@MSmithsonPB: After reading this I've just bet at 11/4 that Article 50 won't be invoked, if at all, until 2018 or later https://t.co/yNhxid1h6S
The electorate have given the politicians their instructions (leave the EU) whether that can be done by not invoking Article 50 I don't know... But if the wishes of the electorate are ignored your going to find a switch to extreme parties.
It won't be unreasonable to expect Prime Minister Farage by 2025.
Fascinating to watch the Australian election. My guess (and it's only that) is that the Coalition will probably win most seats but the ALP-Green bloc might have the edge.
Great result in Mayo for NXT - they are orange and their leader's called Nick so that's good enough for me.
Vote NCT - the Nick Clegg Team - for AV and the compulsory teaching of classical history with special emphasis on the Second Punic War (that's really for Mr Eagles).
A landslide for certain.
Ironic that when the ALP toppled Rudd and replaced him with Gillard she lost her majority at the next election, could the same now happen to Turnbull after he toppled Abbott?
Can't find the clip but I've posted a link to a book with the details in. If you google "Butler Powell gun bang" you get two or three references to it.
I misread that as "gang".
That will probably get you a different set of results.
Inconceivable it will be that late. I'd say 2-3 months (I think a Tory leader would come under immense pressure to do it at once, on the basis that what type of negotiated settlement they want will form part of their pitch to the party)
@MSmithsonPB: After reading this I've just bet at 11/4 that Article 50 won't be invoked, if at all, until 2018 or later https://t.co/yNhxid1h6S
The electorate have given the politicians their instructions (leave the EU) whether that can be done by not invoking Article 50 I don't know... But if the wishes of the electorate are ignored your going to find a switch to extreme parties.
It won't be unreasonable to expect Prime Minister Farage by 2025.
Repealing the 1972 European Communities Act does the trick, doesn't it?
I quite agree though. The public have expressed a view and will follow through at a general election, just as the YesSNP did.
Remain MPs can expect to meet the same fate as Scottish Labour MPs in many areas.
p.s. further to the 1970 point, Thatcher wouldn't have bottled it with the miners like that wimp Ted Heath did.
Er, but she 'did'. 1984-5 wasn't the first miners strike. It was just that that was the one she had prepared for and was able to stand her ground.
People still wear their Maggie rose tinted fantasy glasses.
Good morning all.
Maggie didn't win the miner's strike. Scargill lost it. He took his members out at a time when UK coal stocks were (iirc) at an historical high.
I don't particularly want a coronation, but I cannot see anyone but May being the right choice. The country is essentially going to war, and (channeling the Godfather here), Leadsom is not a wartime consigliere.
But why were coal stocks at an historical high? I thought it was deliberate government policy to stockpile coal in preparation for the next conflict?
Mr. P, Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the same god. Doesn't make them interchangeable.
It does though rather show up a siginficant flaw in western secularists strategy of encouraging Muslim immigration to undermine Christianity and further a secular state, removing God from society.
I've been rather busy this week and haven't been able to keep in touch with the news.
So would PBers be kind enough to give me a brief update on:
1) What tax rises and spending cuts were in Osborne's promised Emergency Budget.
2) How far the stock market has crashed. I assume from the BBC reports that the FTSE100 is now below 5,000 maybe even below 4,000.
FTSE100 is denominated in sterling, which is down almost 10 per cent versus the euro since people thought REMAIN would win, never mind the dollar.
So what if its denominated in Sterling.
If I buy shares I pay in Sterling, if I sell shares I get paid in Sterling.
My pay is denominated in Sterling as are the things I spend it on.
I've never noticed this obsession with converting Sterling denominated items into foreign currencies before this week.
If AstraZeneca or Standard Chartered earns money, they probably don't get paid in sterling.
If you spend money on things that come from places that aren't the UK, your supplier has to make up the difference between the value of GBP on 23 June and now. That will eventually affect you, but it may take longer than 8 days.
So in other words changes in the world economy may have an effect on me.
And I'm all in favour of imported consumer tat and foreign holidays becoming more expensive - that a prerequisite for reducing the £100bn balance of payments deficit the UK had in 2015.
Likewise export oriented British businesses should get a nice boost.
Right. But this is an ascetic belief that people should consume less and work more, which is contradictory to your initial boast that the economy was doing smashingly. "Foreign tat" includes computers, phones and many pharmaceuticals, for goodness' sake.
p.s. further to the 1970 point, Thatcher wouldn't have bottled it with the miners like that wimp Ted Heath did.
Er, but she 'did'. 1984-5 wasn't the first miners strike. It was just that that was the one she had prepared for and was able to stand her ground.
People still wear their Maggie rose tinted fantasy glasses.
Good morning all.
Maggie didn't win the miner's strike. Scargill lost it. He took his members out at a time when UK coal stocks were (iirc) at an historical high.
I don't particularly want a coronation, but I cannot see anyone but May being the right choice. The country is essentially going to war, and (channeling the Godfather here), Leadsom is not a wartime consigliere.
But why were coal stocks at an historical high? I thought it was deliberate government policy to stockpile coal in preparation for the next conflict?
This will teach me two things. Firstly, to read down-thread more thoroughly. Secondly, to keep striving to improve the clarity of my writing.
Everyone knew what the government was up to. It was no secret. Even in those information-poor pre-Internet days, UK coal stocks were well publicised in the newspapers.
Scargill made the terrible mistake of giving battle on a field of his enemy's choosing. No one forced him to call a strike.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
Confession time for me. For years I have been mixing up my Hoggs and my Moggs. I thought the Rees-Moggs and the Hoggs were the same clan when of course they are not. Google has sorted me out.
Remember your Churchill: cats looks down at you whereas pigs treat you as an equal.
They could never have been from the same clan.
David. Both clans seem a bit lofty from where I'm sat. I'm guessing the Hoggs aren't the pigs?
The Hoggs are just Irish lawyers made good; the Rees-Moggs were journalists.
This is from memory, but impeachment is just like a trial at the Bar of the house.
Attainder is a specific Act of Parliament (I don't think you even get to make representations in your own defence - it's not a court case). And it's far nastier - all your worldly goods are forfeited and you (and your children) are stripped of all titles, offices and roles.
I believe the last usage was Edward Fitzgerald after the 1798 rebellion. Warren Hastings was impeached in 1788, while Meville was acquitted in 1806.
Before that of course you could be killed by an Act of Attainder.
So the difference is impeachment is a trial by the House, attainder is you being declared guilty without a trial by the will of the house?
I think so.
(I forgot to mention the execution part of Attainder as that's a given!)
People are reinterpreting the referendum result on an a la carte basis. But there was in fact a clear statement what the official campaign were looking for. It is now being ignored.
And whenever I point that out, Leavers get irate with me. It is all very odd. It is as if there was a deliberate attempt to dupe the British public and now we're supposed not to notice.
I'm nose.
I'm old fashioned enough to believe that there should at least be an attempt to implement a manifesto after an election victory. Not even to try is a fraud on the voters.
You're clearly so old fashioned you see manifestos for Leave, when actually what you linked to was a plan by VoteLeave, which is not the same thing at all. Remember the other Leave campaigns? VoteLeave was biggest, most influential, but not the whole, so it's 'manifesto' cannot be taken to be the manifesto for all. To pretend otherwise is presenting a fraudulent proposition (which we got enough of with the campaigns, thank you). Leave was heavily influenced by but was not VoteLeave. Pretending otherwise is preposterous
And I didn't say people should not try. They are trying now to implement the whole thing, and I can dislike aspects of it, but could not complain as it was one of the options of a Leave vote. But they might not succeed. And that would be ok to. Your insistence that only one prospectus is permitted when the question did not specify that and other views were part of the overall campaign, is farcical.
It's a little baffling, as I know for certain you are more intelligent than I am by far, but you've adopted this unbending insistence based on a premise that is simply factually incorrect, that VoteLeave equals AllLeave, that we assume everyone must want every part of it, and now we are bound to that.
They will be hell to pay if we don't implement their promises, but it wouldn't be a betrayal of anyone, and if they think that, they can vote for someone who will implement them. They will have other chances.
Can't find the clip but I've posted a link to a book with the details in. If you google "Butler Powell gun bang" you get two or three references to it.
I misread that as "gang".
That will probably get you a different set of results.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
I would suggest being very wary of John Evelyn's wittering.
They are usually made up (or twisted beyond all recognition)
I suspect they passed out pissed, with those most likely to barf on the edges - hence the silence on what really happened - much better leave it to fevered imaginations to conjure up a marathon orgy...
People are reinterpreting the referendum result on an a la carte basis. But there was in fact a clear statement what the official campaign were looking for. It is now being ignored.
And whenever I point that out, Leavers get irate with me. It is all very odd. It is as if there was a deliberate attempt to dupe the British public and now we're supposed not to notice.
I'm nose.
I'm old fashioned enough to believe that there should at least be an attempt to implement a manifesto after an election victory. Not even to try is a fraud on the voters.
You're clearly so old fashioned you see manifestos for Leave, when actually what you linked to was a plan by VoteLeave, which is not the same thing at all. Remember the other Leave campaigns? VoteLeave was biggest, most influential, but not the whole, so it's 'manifesto' cannot be taken to be the manifesto for all. To pretend otherwise is presenting a fraudulent proposition (which we got enough of with the campaigns, thank you). Leave was heavily influenced by but was not VoteLeave. Pretending otherwise is preposterous
And I didn't say people should not try. They are trying now to implement the whole thing, and I can dislike aspects of it, but could not complain as it was one of the options of a Leave vote. But they might not succeed. And that would be ok to. Your insistence that only one prospectus is permitted when the question did not specify that and other views were part of the overall campaign, is farcical.
It's a little baffling, as I know for certain you are more intelligent than I am by far, but you've adopted this unbending insistence based on a premise that is simply factually incorrect, that VoteLeave equals AllLeave, that we assume everyone must want every part of it, and now we are bound to that.
They will be hell to pay if we don't implement their promises, but it wouldn't be a betrayal of anyone, and if they think that, they can vote for someone who will implement them. They will have other chances.
Vote Leave was the official campaign.
Yes. But not the only one. Meaning it's not like a ge when voting tory means implicit support for tories. One could be leave but not vote leave.
I agree many will want the vote leave programme and may get it. But the government never promised anyone that so no fraud if it doesnt
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
It's a bit early for you to be drunk, or is it just that you have a naturally unpleasant nature?
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
Ask her out, watching you pulling her pigtails and running away, is really tedious.
I would suggest being very wary of John Evelyn's wittering.
They are usually made up (or twisted beyond all recognition)
I suspect they passed out pissed, with those most likely to barf on the edges - hence the silence on what really happened - much better leave it to fevered imaginations to conjure up a marathon orgy...
What made the story for me was that even back then, Gove was someone people could not stop themselves from punching.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
Meanwhile Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster, Islington, Tunbridge Wells, Richmond Upon Thames, Elmbridge, Chiltern, Waverley, Windsor and Maidenhead and Mole Valley etc some of the wealthiest parts of the country all comfortably voted
Meanwhile Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster, Islington, Tunbridge Wells, Richmond Upon Thames, Elmbridge, Waverley and Mole Valley etc some of the wealthiest parts of the country all comfortably voted
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
F1: whilst the Austrian circuit has a lovely picturesque surrounding, that does make it even harder trying to work out the weather forecast when the nearest place (Graz) appears to be an hour away...
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
No, you're just self-righteous, without any justification for it.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
Being called stupid and ignorant by you is surely the highest of compliments.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
We'll put you down as undecided?
But seriously Tyson, time to down down the bile. It's over. You lost. Time to make nice with those that the policy of the last 40 years has let down.
p.s. further to the 1970 point, Thatcher wouldn't have bottled it with the miners like that wimp Ted Heath did.
Er, but she 'did'. 1984-5 wasn't the first miners strike. It was just that that was the one she had prepared for and was able to stand her ground.
People still wear their Maggie rose tinted fantasy glasses.
Good morning all.
Maggie didn't win the miner's strike. Scargill lost it. He took his members out at a time when UK coal stocks were (iirc) at an historical high.
I don't particularly want a coronation, but I cannot see anyone but May being the right choice. The country is essentially going to war, and (channeling the Godfather here), Leadsom is not a wartime consigliere.
But why were coal stocks at an historical high? I thought it was deliberate government policy to stockpile coal in preparation for the next conflict?
This will teach me two things. Firstly, to read down-thread more thoroughly. Secondly, to keep striving to improve the clarity of my writing.
Everyone knew what the government was up to. It was no secret. Even in those information-poor pre-Internet days, UK coal stocks were well publicised in the newspapers.
Scargill made the terrible mistake of giving battle on a field of his enemy's choosing. No one forced him to call a strike.
Moore's biography of Thatcher also notes that _distribution_ of the coal stocks no longer relied on trade unions thanks to road haulage replacing rail. He might have added that the press owners were now interested in smashing their own unions, motivated by the same type of technological reasons. It's interesting how technology caused a decline in some people's real incomes this way even before China appeared on the world market.
Meanwhile Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster, Islington, Tunbridge Wells, Richmond Upon Thames, Elmbridge, Waverley and Mole Valley etc some of the wealthiest parts of the country all comfortably voted
Protecting their wallets.
Yes the posher and richer you were the more likely you were to vote Remain
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
No, you're just self-righteous, without any justification for it.
Not really mate. We fought a war 70 years ago against demagoguery, racism and fascism. And we rightly called it out as evil which is was.
Brexit is the unleashing of something really quite despicable feeding on people's fears, insecurities and prejudices. But, the Remainers are not going go down without a fight. And I doubt actually anyone is going to have the bollox to invoke article 50.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Who alienated her or and what did they do to make her feel unwanted? Or has she just been listening to too much of your bullcrap?
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
No, you're just self-righteous, without any justification for it.
Not really mate. We fought a war 70 years ago against demagoguery, racism and fascism. And we rightly called it out as evil which is was.
Brexit is the unleashing of something really quite despicable feeding on people's fears, insecurities and prejudices. But, the Remainers are not going go down without a fight.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
Being called stupid and ignorant by you is surely the highest of compliments.
You could be ideologically deluded or racist and highly intelligent. Like Rod Crosby for instance.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
The real problem you face us, you're just not a nice person. Hate, anger and abuse, is pretty much your stock in trade.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
We'll put you down as undecided?
But seriously Tyson, time to down down the bile. It's over. You lost. Time to make nice with those that the policy of the last 40 years has let down.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Hear hear!
Whatever people say, the nasty undercurrent of racism and bigotry in British society has been given a shot in the arm after the Leave vote. Let's see how this plays out but I for am am not optimistic.
We all need to make the best of the fact we will now live in a poorer, less tolerant, inward looking and isolated country. Move on and face a bleaker future,,,
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
Day 9 - Tyson reaches Phase 2 or 3 within the (5 or 7) stages of grieving - Anger....
For God's sake Mr tyson get a grip. As a Remainer I' not panicking. The world isn't going to come to an end, and while some of our opponents were motivated by all sorts of ignoble motives, many were not, or were simply misled.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
but you live in Italy
And the good news is he won't lose the right to live there, far away from his countrymen who he so despises.
If Theresa May is the next PM, doesn't invoke A50 or hold an early GE, what chance is there of Boris/Gove/Leadsom/Mogg/Leavers in general pushing for a vote of no confidence or defecting?
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Hear hear!
Whatever people say, the nasty undercurrent of racism and bigotry in British society has been given a shot in the arm after the Leave vote. Let's see how this plays out but I for am am not optimistic.
We all need to make the best of the fact we will now live in a poorer, less tolerant, inward looking and isolated country. Move on and face a bleaker future,,,
Actually Murali I have some hope that Article 50 will not be invoked. As much as May says not, there will have to be some kind of agreement put before an election before we press the trigger. And by then we'll be in the throes of a self inflicted recession.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Hear hear!
Whatever people say, the nasty undercurrent of racism and bigotry in British society has been given a shot in the arm after the Leave vote. Let's see how this plays out but I for am am not optimistic.
We all need to make the best of the fact we will now live in a poorer, less tolerant, inward looking and isolated country. Move on and face a bleaker future,,,
As a Remainer, I believe we will be living in a poorer country. The problem is the people this will hit most are the social class D and E Leavers discussed down thread who will be the brunt of public sector spending cuts, job losses due to recession etc etc. They were sold a pup. I fear the wrath that is coming.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Hear hear!
Whatever people say, the nasty undercurrent of racism and bigotry in British society has been given a shot in the arm after the Leave vote. Let's see how this plays out but I for am am not optimistic.
We all need to make the best of the fact we will now live in a poorer, less tolerant, inward looking and isolated country. Move on and face a bleaker future,,,
Actually Murali I have some hope that Article 50 will not be invoked. As much as May says not, there will have to be some kind of agreement put before an election before we press the trigger. And by then we'll be in the throes of a self inflicted recession.
I'm getting really tired of this demonisation of the UK, as if it's the only racist country in the world. We've had people coming to these shores for centuries. Some people are always going to be unpleasant to newcomers - even if they're natives, as anyone who's ever changed schools can testify.
As to some of the epithets, they're just pathetic. Isolated? A UK passport can get you to 175 of the world's 200-odd countries, either visa free or visa-on-arrival. Inward looking? What does that even mean? We're still going to participate in endless multilateral initiatives, from ESA to Erasmus. The British diaspora will continue, and millions of tourists will come to the UK.
We're certainly going to forgo economic growth. Based on the IFS models, that impact could be as much as 6-7% by 2030, assuming we don't strike up FTAs and capitalise on the opportunities.
"It’s this stark: if you do physical labour, live in a modest home and have never darkened the door of a university, you’re far more likely to have said ‘screw you’ to the EU than the bloke in the leafier neighbouring borough who has a nicer existence. Of course there are discrepancies. The 16 local authorities in Scotland that have high manufacturing levels voted Remain rather than Leave. But for the most part, class was the deciding factor in the vote.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
As said Brexiters are either ill informed, ill educated, stupid, ignorant, ideologically deluded, or racist or any combination of these characteristics. Which are you Plato?
Take the beam out of your own eye, first.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Hear hear!
Whatever people say, the nasty undercurrent of racism and bigotry in British society has been given a shot in the arm after the Leave vote. Let's see how this plays out but I for am am not optimistic.
We all need to make the best of the fact we will now live in a poorer, less tolerant, inward looking and isolated country. Move on and face a bleaker future,,,
Actually Murali I have some hope that Article 50 will not be invoked. As much as May says not, there will have to be some kind of agreement put before an election before we press the trigger. And by then we'll be in the throes of a self inflicted recession.
Remain is not finished. Not by a long way.
I disagree, but let's see where things stand in 6 months I guess
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Who alienated her or and what did they do to make her feel unwanted? Or has she just been listening to too much of your bullcrap?
I'm not as vehement about it as tyson, and accept that Leave supporters come in all shapes and sizes. But I have a lot of non-UK EU national friends who do all, without exception, range from dismay to sadness to anger and feel very personally rejected. One friend who was looking for a senior IT job in Britain has cancelled all her applications here, because she doesn't want to live in a country where she believes she'd be unwelcome.
Whoever wins as new PM could do worse than offering some reassuring words, rather than merely treating the right of EU nationals already here to remain as a bargaining chip, as May has just done.
People are reinterpreting the referendum result on an a la carte basis. But there was in fact a clear statement what the official campaign were looking for. It is now being ignored.
And whenever I point that out, Leavers get irate with me. It is all very odd. It is as if there was a deliberate attempt to dupe the British public and now we're supposed not to notice.
I'm nose.
I'm old fashioned enough to believe that there should at least be an attempt to implement a manifesto after an election victory. Not even to try is a fraud on the voters.
You're clearly so old fashioned you see manifestos for Leave, when actually what you linked to was a plan by VoteLeave, which is not the same thing at all. Remember the other Leave campaigns? VoteLeave was biggest, most influential, but not the whole, so it's 'manifesto' cannot be taken to be the manifesto for all. To pretend otherwise is presenting a fraudulent proposition (which we got enough of with the campaigns, thank you). Leave was heavily influenced by but was not VoteLeave. Pretending otherwise is preposterous
And I didn't say people should not try. They are trying now to implement the whole thing, and I can dislike aspects of it, but could not complain as it was one of the options of a Leave vote. But they might not succeed. And that would be ok to. Your insistence that only one prospectus is permitted when the question did not specify that and other views were part of the overall campaign, is farcical.
It's a little baffling, as I know for certain you are more intelligent than I am by far, but you've adopted this unbending insistence based on a premise that is simply factually incorrect, that VoteLeave equals AllLeave, that we assume everyone must want every part of it, and now we are bound to that.
They will be hell to pay if we don't implement their promises, but it wouldn't be a betrayal of anyone, and if they think that, they can vote for someone who will implement them. They will have other chances.
Vote Leave was the official campaign.
Yes. But not the only one. Meaning it's not like a ge when voting tory means implicit support for tories. One could be leave but not vote leave.
I agree many will want the vote leave programme and may get it. But the government never promised anyone that so no fraud if it doesnt
I'm curious. What do you think was the purpose of issuing that programme?
If the referendum had been a GE fought on proportionnal representation, using only realistic options (so vote leaves entire manifesto out of play here), Brenorway would have been the largest party, with Bremain and BrOUT! parties probably fairly similar, with a small (lib dem sized) europhile Vive Bruxelles party to finish off. The result would be Brenorway in coalition with Bremain - which is effectively whats happening now if May gets in.
Re: the "when is Article 50" debate/bet. May has a clear strategy open to her: sit tight and wait for public opinion to swing decisively against leaving the EU.
I'm surprised people still seem to think there's a chance Brexit won't happen.
The three people most likely to be our next PM are May, Leadsom and Gove. Two are arch brexiteers and can't wait to get around the negotiating table, the third has openly stated "Brexit means Brexit."
It will all proceed as currently stated: no early general election, Article 50 invoked towards the end of the year.
What I wouldn't rule out is either a general election or another referendum on the eventual deal.
My wife has just come back from England. She's Italian and she felt alienated and unwanted. This is the impact that Brexit is having on foreigners living or working in Britain, contributing to the economy. The vile, disgusting Leave campaign has sadly unleashed this horror show.
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
Who alienated her or and what did they do to make her feel unwanted? Or has she just been listening to too much of your bullcrap?
I'm not as vehement about it as tyson, and accept that Leave supporters come in all shapes and sizes. But I have a lot of non-UK EU national friends who do all, without exception, range from dismay to sadness to anger and feel very personally rejected. One friend who was looking for a senior IT job in Britain has cancelled all her applications here, because she doesn't want to live in a country where she believes she'd be unwelcome.
Whoever wins as new PM could do worse than offering some reassuring words, rather than merely treating the right of EU nationals already here to remain as a bargaining chip, as May has just done.
A German I know a little, told me the othre day that he had heard on the grapevine of many EU nationals seriously thinking of leaving. And who can blame them. Would you stay?
May has already said she won't invoke Article 50 before the end of the year.
has she now? Interesting.
Ot just came across a vote leave sign torn down with 'you pricks' scrawled on it. It's a message, but about what?
It's a message about the undemocratic nasty tendencies in the Remain camp. We left up all the Remain posters round here, undefaced; many of the Leave posters were torn down or scrawled upon.
All my non-British friends are interpreting the vote as a signal that the British don't want them. They feel rejection on a personal level, just as Nick Palmer says.
All my non-British friends are interpreting the vote as a signal that the British don't want them. They feel rejection on a personal level, just as Nick Palmer says.
Their incorrect interpretations are noones fault but their own.
Comments
Great result in Mayo for NXT - they are orange and their leader's called Nick so that's good enough for me.
Vote NCT - the Nick Clegg Team - for AV and the compulsory teaching of classical history with special emphasis on the Second Punic War (that's really for Mr Eagles).
A landslide for certain.
"The Kalgoorlie Australian federal parliamentary constituency in Western Australia covers more than 2,600,000km2 (1,000,000miles2), an area greater than the whole of western Europe. The constituency measures 2,250km (1,400miles) from north to south and 1,600 km (1,000miles) from east to west and covers the whole state of Western Australia except for the Perth urban area in the southwest."
It's been split since (with other changes) into Durack and O'Connor divisions, with Durack being the larger, at 629000 square miles (or about seven times the area of the UK).
http://order-order.com/2016/07/02/telegraph-pulled-article-critical-theresa-may-campaign-pressure/
House Speaker Paul Ryan is calling for the United States to pursue a free trade agreement with the United Kingdom once it has formally separated from the European Union, saying discussions should begin now in order to ease concerns and ensure a "smooth trade relationship."
"We need to emphasize that they are our indispensable ally," Ryan told Milwaukee’s WISN radio. "We have a special relationship, and I think that does mean we should have a trade agreement with ... Great Britain."
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/paul-ryan-brexit-trade-224878#ixzz4DFDpGE7G
Beginning the pre-qualifying piece.
Working backwards, the next election is May 2020, dissolution will be March 2020 and that is when the government will be held to account for delivering on Brexit so allowing for a two year negotiation period takes us back to Q1 2018.
Between Q3 2016 and Q4 2017, all the foundation work is done on negotiation, teams etc.
I personally think the second half of 2017 is most likely to be the trigger date but can understand why Q1 2018 is a distinct possibility.
However, Abbott was a National and Turnbull is a Liberal and the MPs of both parties orchestrated Abbott's ousting in 2015.
And I'm all in favour of imported consumer tat and foreign holidays becoming more expensive - that a prerequisite for reducing the £100bn balance of payments deficit the UK had in 2015.
Likewise export oriented British businesses should get a nice boost.
And I didn't say people should not try. They are trying now to implement the whole thing, and I can dislike aspects of it, but could not complain as it was one of the options of a Leave vote. But they might not succeed. And that would be ok to. Your insistence that only one prospectus is permitted when the question did not specify that and other views were part of the overall campaign, is farcical.
It's a little baffling, as I know for certain you are more intelligent than I am by far, but you've adopted this unbending insistence based on a premise that is simply factually incorrect, that VoteLeave equals AllLeave, that we assume everyone must want every part of it, and now we are bound to that.
They will be hell to pay if we don't implement their promises, but it wouldn't be a betrayal of anyone, and if they think that, they can vote for someone who will implement them. They will have other chances.
It won't be unreasonable to expect Prime Minister Farage by 2025.
L/NP 57
ALP 57
Others 5
ABC now saying a hung parliament is more likely than not
I quite agree though. The public have expressed a view and will follow through at a general election, just as the YesSNP did.
Remain MPs can expect to meet the same fate as Scottish Labour MPs in many areas.
Everyone knew what the government was up to. It was no secret. Even in those information-poor pre-Internet days, UK coal stocks were well publicised in the newspapers.
Scargill made the terrible mistake of giving battle on a field of his enemy's choosing. No one forced him to call a strike.
This, for me, is the most breathtaking fact: of the 50 areas of Britain that have the highest number of people in social classes D and E — semi-skilled and unskilled workers and unemployed people — only three voted Remain. Three. That means 47 very poor areas, in unison said No to the very thing the establishment insisted they should say Yes to..."
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-voters-are-not-thick-not-racist-just-poor/
Both solidly middle/professional class families.
Betting PostF1: Will be in the pre-qualifying piece but time's a factor so up here too.
Raikkonen, each way win 15, Ladbrokes (each way is 1/3 odds for top 2).
Rosberg has a 5 place grid penalty. So does Vettel. And the Ferrari may be a match for the Mercedes.
L/NP 57 ALP 58 Others 5
(I forgot to mention the execution part of Attainder as that's a given!)
http://order-order.com/2016/07/02/read-full-article-pulled-telegraph-pressure-may-campaign/
Day 9 after the country went bonkers and still as miserable as ever. I can easily understand now how civil wars break out such is my utter scathing contempt and hatred for anything remotely to do with Brexit.
F1: still working for Ladbrokes' pole market. Intrigued to see how the Ferraris and Mercedes stack up.
I agree many will want the vote leave programme and may get it. But the government never promised anyone that so no fraud if it doesnt
But, we Remainers are fucking angry, as angry as we've ever been. And we are on the side of sense and rationality unlike the Brexit ideologues.
L/NP 61 ALP 60 Others 5
Later's.
But seriously Tyson, time to down down the bile. It's over. You lost. Time to make nice with those that the policy of the last 40 years has let down.
Brexit is the unleashing of something really quite despicable feeding on people's fears, insecurities and prejudices. But, the Remainers are not going go down without a fight. And I doubt actually anyone is going to have the bollox to invoke article 50.
Betting PostF1: pre-qualifying piece, with a tip for fastest Q3 time, is up here:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/austria-pre-qualifying-2016.html
May has already said she won't invoke Article 50 before the end of the year.
Whatever people say, the nasty undercurrent of racism and bigotry in British society has been given a shot in the arm after the Leave vote. Let's see how this plays out but I for am am not optimistic.
We all need to make the best of the fact we will now live in a poorer, less tolerant, inward looking and isolated country. Move on and face a bleaker future,,,
L/NP 65 ALP 60 Others 5
Anyway, I'm off for a bit. Off-chance the pre-race piece will be tomorrow morning rather than this afternoon/evening.
Remain is not finished. Not by a long way.
Mole Valley will continue just fine no doubt.
As to some of the epithets, they're just pathetic. Isolated? A UK passport can get you to 175 of the world's 200-odd countries, either visa free or visa-on-arrival. Inward looking? What does that even mean? We're still going to participate in endless multilateral initiatives, from ESA to Erasmus. The British diaspora will continue, and millions of tourists will come to the UK.
We're certainly going to forgo economic growth. Based on the IFS models, that impact could be as much as 6-7% by 2030, assuming we don't strike up FTAs and capitalise on the opportunities.
As for the rest. Complete self-pitying bollocks.
Ot just came across a vote leave sign torn down with 'you pricks' scrawled on it. It's a message, but about what?
Whoever wins as new PM could do worse than offering some reassuring words, rather than merely treating the right of EU nationals already here to remain as a bargaining chip, as May has just done.
L/NP 69 ALP 61 Others 5
The three people most likely to be our next PM are May, Leadsom and Gove. Two are arch brexiteers and can't wait to get around the negotiating table, the third has openly stated "Brexit means Brexit."
It will all proceed as currently stated: no early general election, Article 50 invoked towards the end of the year.
What I wouldn't rule out is either a general election or another referendum on the eventual deal.