mrs May is now at 70% on that link two threads ago. looks like May v Leasdom.(17%)
Leadsom's never even been a Cabinet member, bit of a jump to go straight in as PM from there. That said, she's second favourite on Betfair at 5 (4/1), May at 1.43 (4/9), Gove at 9, Crabb at 30 and Fox at 60.
Some muppets still have cash available to lay Boris, albeit at 300.
How many 20th/21st century PM's have become so straight from being an MP without ever holding a cabinet or shadow cabinet post?
.
Pah! I have a much more impressive CV than that. At the risk of going all SeanT like, I have worked in government, been part of British delegations to Brussels, my first financial services case was the Guinness scandal, the Adoboli case was one of mine, I've worked at two top tier law firms specialising in financial services litigation, have worked at a hedge fund, two US and a Swiss bank, done criminal legal aid and have written and lectured on law and financial matters and have set up my own team of top notch investigators from a standing start.
If that's all it takes,I should be PM and I dare say that there are plenty of other PB'ers with equally if not more impressive experience. But being PM, especially at a time like this, requires perhaps other skills.......
But I presume you wouldn't be prepared to take the pay cut; or the abuse!
I have been dealing with City traders most of my working life. I can take the abuse - and can dish it out, if needed - but for some reason they are more scared of me than the other way around. Never confuse loudness and bullshitting with courage.
I was once called "The Angel of Death" by a banker I was about to interview.
Lead some has a good CV but let's not overhype it. Corporate governance is not generally a role where you have to confront difficult people or decisions or make difficult judgment calls. It's more of a back room role. She has a good CV by comparison with others who have little non-politics experience.
FWIW I read the entrails of the poll a bit differently. Mostly FPT:
* Opinion is split between pre-2015 members (who are now marginally anti-Corbyn 51-46) and post-2015 members (who are heavily pro, 72-29). Note that there are now 60,000 further new members, whose views can't be accurately guessed but won't be in the poll. * McDonnell does quite well against the potential challengers, but loses narrowly to everyone except Jarvis. Corbyn has a roughly 10-point loyalty/personal bonus that McDonnell doesn't at present have. That could change, of course, but... * That makes a deal involving McDonnell or Lewis standing as the left candidate less likely IMO. Corbyn won't give up if he thinks it would damage the left cause. * There is massive disapproval of the Shadow Cabinet resignations from all parts of the party, 60-36 overall * Members are pessimistic about the next election with Corbyn (57-35) but also if Corbyn went (50-38 - as it's by unknown X, there are more undecideds).
Summary, trying not be influenced by my own views: Corbyn will stand and fight. It's not that he's enjoying it, but he thinks it's his duty. The ABCs have overplayed their hands with the mass resignations. However, they are not that far behind, and would have a chance if and only if one of them actually looked like a potential election-winner. Members won't vote to dump Corbyn in favour of someone who they think would lose anyway.
This is thoroughly depressing, and reveals the predicament the party I've been a member of for thirty years is in. I know you said that the moderates don't have answers....they didn't need answers. If we had Yvette Cooper now, although she didn't have a policy, she would be looking at Blair type leads in the post Brexit climate.
Jarvis has to throw his hat in the ring-and pick a Corbynite as a deputy, and commit to half his cabinet positions to Corbynites, including keeping McDonnell as SC and allowing him complete freedom over shaping economic policy, and allowing a free members vote to determine nuclear weapons.
If he offers that to the members he'll win by a landslide against anyone, including St Jeremy of Corbyn.
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
So we may have a situation where the Tories lead by May will be the party campaigning in favour of the single market and some form of free movement and more immigration while Labour will campaign against free movement. What kind of a world is this.
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
That is a huge policy statement. Massive.
Well we all know how keen the Russians and the East Germans were on free movement of people.
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
McDonnell has actually grasped what Labour needs to say to keep the Northern and Midland seats.
So it looks like May. I'm entirely happy with that as long as she sees Brexit through properly. I hope she clears house a bit on the ministerial appointments side, starting with Osborne who is a malign figure and creator of far too much political intrigue when we need simple getting on with things. I'd very much like her to find a role for Daniel Hannan.
Hannan should be on the Brexit negotiating team, he's literally written books on the subject and knows Brussles inside out. I'm sure there will be a safe seat waiting for him in 2020 if not before. Witney maybe?
One point Mr Hannan makes about Brexit is that its a process, not a one off.
The UK-EU agreement will be important, but its not the end of the journey.
Absolutely, which is why people like Hannan need to be involved, along with others who understand what needs to happen and when. It's probably not an awful lot initially, and there's lots of pone trial to make the whole process much more difficult than it needs to be.
In parallel to the EU negotiations we also need to get other trade deals under discussion and encourage our major exporters to take advantage of the weakened pound. All the talking down of the economy needs stamping on.
We also need to be cunning and act as the French would do, ignoring any inconvenient EU rules from the moment we activate Article 50.
I was really impressed by the NZ Gov offering us their top trade negotiators. Someone earlier this week made an interesting observation. Brexiteers have been working on this for many years re the options, legal positions et al.
They may not agree on a single final destination outside the EU, but they know what's what - the Remainers assumed they'd walk it with scare stories and simply don't have the same depth of knowledge.
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn New Opinium poll: 7% of Leavers regret the way they voted, 3% of Remainers do. That would wipe out #Brexit's majority.
These are the same polls that didn't predict LEAVE would win?
Frankly I have no idea why these opinion pollsters are taken seriously anymore... They've had an AWFUL two years with the general election and then the referendum fiasco's.
Opinium correctly forecast a Leave victory
Yes, but YouGov conducted the remorse poll. Until the pollsters find a way of filtering lefty twatters who game the polls they aren't going to be worth anything.
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn New Opinium poll: 7% of Leavers regret the way they voted, 3% of Remainers do. That would wipe out #Brexit's majority.
These are the same polls that didn't predict LEAVE would win?
Frankly I have no idea why these opinion pollsters are taken seriously anymore... They've had an AWFUL two years with the general election and then the referendum fiasco's.
Opinium correctly forecast a Leave victory
The question is whether they got the correct result for valid reasons. It;s perfectly possible to have bogus sampling or adjustments and still come up with an answer that looks right.
A two-choice referendum should have been easy to poll; much easier than a multiparty election. Yet the pollsters have been left looking rather poor.
McDonnell asked if Labour would vote down leaving the EU in the Commons. McDonnell says Labour should respect the result, the party should consider the negotiation on the table.
McDonnell is asked how his plan is relevant without the support of MPs. He says Corbyn will take part in any Labour leadership contest and says he hopes MPs would respect the result, mentions the need for stability.
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
That is a huge policy statement. Massive.
This is the proper old left.
I can't imagine its a Corbyn idea either. McDonnell OTOH...
The party’s red lines are free trade in single market and that no EU nationals in UK now will have rights affected in future. There is no mention of campaigning to preserve free movement rights across Europe.
Then the next post:
McDonnell says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Yup. Labour don't need any help to make a complete pigs ear of it this time. How they managed to get all over the news re their anti-Semitism event is really quite incredible. I'm still gaping.
It's been one long slow motion car crash since Miliband turned up with a three metre high slab of rock, the week before the election.
With all that's going on right now, there needs to be an opposition worthy of the name. The current Labour Party aren't close to being able to provide it.
And to think, all this nonsense started with Eric Joyce and the drunken fight in the Strangers' Bar. Without that, there would be no Corbyn.
I can understand the argument that where we are today can be traced back to Eric Joyce and the Falkirk selection debacle.
The problem with it is that the same conditions of a corrupt and broken Labour party in Scotland taking its electorate for granted, behind the scenes shenanigans and all the various features had happened time and time again in Scotland (and probably elsewhere).
Going back to Helen Liddell and the Monklands scandal, it was clear that Labour had no interest in the people they represent and were involved in shady behind the scenes processes and corruption back in the 90s. There is no particular reason to assume that the Joyce and Falkirk incidents were particularly different or changed the public opinion on the party.
The real change - what put us here today - was the decision to use electronic countin in the 2007 Scottish Holyrood election which resulted in huge number of spoiled papers and the SNP winning a 1 seat minority that the other parties should never have let them govern on. That minority was won, in the tightest seat, by 48 votes in Cunninghame North. A seat with over 1000 spoiled papers.
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn New Opinium poll: 7% of Leavers regret the way they voted, 3% of Remainers do. That would wipe out #Brexit's majority.
These are the same polls that didn't predict LEAVE would win?
Frankly I have no idea why these opinion pollsters are taken seriously anymore... They've had an AWFUL two years with the general election and then the referendum fiasco's.
Honestly 7% is not very many let alone net 4%.
And what's the statistical margin of error on these data anyway?
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
That is a huge policy statement. Massive.
Won't play well with members.
Which members... It won't play well in London, may well do so in a couple of weeks once the northern CLP have taken soundings and had some time to think....
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
McDonnell has actually grasped what Labour needs to say to keep the Northern and Midland seats.
He is a winner if Corbyn will stand down....
The element missing from Mike Smithson's article is that the YouGov survey showed Corbyn winning hands down in a leadership election against all the current potential candidates like Watson and Eagle.
No point in replacing your leader with someone worse.
Remember that political parties are their members - not their MPs.
This is McDonnell wresting power from Corbyn. Plenty of Northern Labour MPs may well support him now if he goes for the leadership I reckon. Though he might play a longer game. He's got alot of low cunning.
Yup. Labour don't need any help to make a complete pigs ear of it this time. How they managed to get all over the news re their anti-Semitism event is really quite incredible. I'm still gaping.
It's been one long slow motion car crash since Miliband turned up with a three metre high slab of rock, the week before the election.
With all that's going on right now, there needs to be an opposition worthy of the name. The current Labour Party aren't close to being able to provide it.
And to think, all this nonsense started with Eric Joyce and the drunken fight in the Strangers' Bar. Without that, there would be no Corbyn.
I can understand the argument that where we are today can be traced back to Eric Joyce and the Falkirk selection debacle.
The problem with it is that the same conditions of a corrupt and broken Labour party in Scotland taking its electorate for granted, behind the scenes shenanigans and all the various features had happened time and time again in Scotland (and probably elsewhere).
(Snip)
Indeed. Whilst his violence was deplorable, Joyce's position in rejecting a stitch-up was fairly honourable IMO.
A few months ago I finished reading "Bloody Victory" by William Philpott about the Somme battle. A truly excellent book, the best of 4 or 5 I have read on the subject.
On this day it is fitting we remember the terrible things that happened 100 years ago which affected our country so deeply.
The popular view of the battle is slightly at odds with the truth. Big mistakes were made, but in sum, it helped win the war, possibly even stopped Germany winning.
The French tactics were more advanced and their troops (especially artillery) more experienced than the British, one reason for our catastrophic early losses. But as time went on we inflicted terrible losses on the Germans too as we learnt the tactics of slaughter.
It is heartbreaking to read of some of the battlefield conditions, the lads whose job it was to run communication wires across the battlefield to recently captured trenches or just to the front line, and to do it again when the wires were blown up. The chaotic attempts to keep track of troops via reflective mirrors on their backs (!), the gas attacks, the mud, the cold, the barbed wire, rats, blood, agony and death.
And the survivors had to watch their sons go to war barely 20 years later. I cannot imagine how that must have felt.
Puts all the events of this week somewhat into perspective it seems to me.
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
McDonnell has actually grasped what Labour needs to say to keep the Northern and Midland seats.
He is a winner if Corbyn will stand down....
The element missing from Mike Smithson's article is that the YouGov survey showed Corbyn winning hands down in a leadership election against all the current potential candidates like Watson and Eagle.
No point in replacing your leader with someone worse.
Remember that political parties are their members - not their MPs.
This is McDonnell wresting power from Corbyn. Plenty of Northern Labour MPs may well support him now if he goes for the leadership I reckon. Though he might play a longer game. He's got alot of low cunning.
This is amazing stuff, McDonnell is dangerous. He looks and sounds like a retired senior Met copper.
This is McDonnell wresting power from Corbyn. Plenty of Northern Labour MPs may well support him now if he goes for the leadership I reckon. Though he might play a longer game. He's got alot of low cunning.
The problem is it's what they need to say not what they want to say. The members and pro-European MPs are going to hate him even more and if they can - do what's necessary to despose them both.
Somewhere down the line people will wonder why interest rates were kept at 0.5% at a time when house prices rose by 25% over three years, and over 50% in London.
And, having wondered, after about 5 seconds they'll realise that house prices aren't the only, or even the main, factor which the MPC took into account.
When the ludicrously over inflated housing bubble bursts I am sure people will feel comforted by that.
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
McDonnell has actually grasped what Labour needs to say to keep the Northern and Midland seats.
He is a winner if Corbyn will stand down....
I agree - McDonnell is far more impressive than Corbyn.
Yes I know that hsi support for Irish nationalism causes excitement. But when a senior IRA commander has been deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland for a good while now, I think it is less of an issue.
He also says he will never stand for the leadership but instead will campaign to get Jeremy Elected. Sounds similar to another politician saying he'd never run....
Jarvis has to throw his hat in the ring-and pick a Corbynite as a deputy, and commit to half his cabinet positions to Corbynites, including keeping McDonnell as SC and allowing him complete freedom over shaping economic policy, and allowing a free members vote to determine nuclear weapons.
If he offers that to the members he'll win by a landslide against anyone, including St Jeremy of Corbyn.
This seems a bit optimistic - if not outright deluded. Labour has two fairly solidly entrenched camps: 1. The leadership and membership - very lefty loony Venezuela/IRA/SWP/Unionish 2. MPs and voters - Much more middle ground. Don't think Blair is Beelzebub.
These two camps are unreconcilable. Even if Saint Jarvis got elected what policy platform could be agreed? People who say war never solves anything are naïve idiots. War resolves lots. One side must win the Labour civil war.
Yes, well the industry roundtable was interesting. Most are saying nothing changes, even if we aren't in the passporting zone. I was expecting it to be more downcast, but honestly I was surprised by how people seem to have shrugged it off. When banks are talking about moving 1,000 jobs out of 20,000 we're not talking massive sums. Some even said depending on the attitude of the next government those lost positions to Dublin could be replaced by new people dealing with new markets in Asia and other regions with which we can open up new trading relationships.
Most would still like to keep the passport because its easy, but after hearing the views of people well above my paygrade, I don't think it will be the end of the world to lose it, and the idea that London would lose business to Paris and Frankfurt has been banished. There was literally a massive list of reasons why London is favourable to Paris or Frankfurt outside of the EU and Paris and Frankfurt have only added passporting rights. A lot of them are also worried that without the voice of the UK in the EU, moving to the EU leaves them open to over-regulation now that we won't be there to stop or reduce it.
The key thing is to make sure that that we do actually seize the opportunities which being in control of our own regulatory regime potentially gives us, to offset the undoubted damage to the City from reduced access to the Single Market.
This is McDonnell wresting power from Corbyn. Plenty of Northern Labour MPs may well support him now if he goes for the leadership I reckon. Though he might play a longer game. He's got alot of low cunning.
I'd support McDonnell, just. I think he has got something of the Harold Wilson about him- a lefty operator which is what the party needs.
This is McDonnell wresting power from Corbyn. Plenty of Northern Labour MPs may well support him now if he goes for the leadership I reckon. Though he might play a longer game. He's got alot of low cunning.
But surely McDonnell would be just as reliant on the Corbyn voter base within the Labour party and supporters and a strong anti-immigrant stance will alienate him (and potentially Corbyn right now) to that very same voter base which they need to hold off the Plotters?
FWIW I read the entrails of the poll a bit differently. Mostly FPT:
* Opinion is split between pre-2015 members (who are now marginally anti-Corbyn 51-46) and post-2015 members (who are heavily pro, 72-29). Note that there are now 60,000 further new members, whose views can't be accurately guessed but won't be in the poll. * McDonnell does quite well against the potential challengers, but loses narrowly to everyone except Jarvis. Corbyn has a roughly 10-point loyalty/personal bonus that McDonnell doesn't at present have. That could change, of course, but... * That makes a deal involving McDonnell or Lewis standing as the left candidate less likely IMO. Corbyn won't give up if he thinks it would damage the left cause. * There is massive disapproval of the Shadow Cabinet resignations from all parts of the party, 60-36 overall * Members are pessimistic about the next election with Corbyn (57-35) but also if Corbyn went (50-38 - as it's by unknown X, there are more undecideds).
Summary, trying not be influenced by my own views: Corbyn will stand and fight. It's not that he's enjoying it, but he thinks it's his duty. The ABCs have overplayed their hands with the mass resignations. However, they are not that far behind, and would have a chance if and only if one of them actually looked like a potential election-winner. Members won't vote to dump Corbyn in favour of someone who they think would lose anyway.
This is thoroughly depressing, and reveals the predicament the party I've been a member of for thirty years is in. I know you said that the moderates don't have answers....they didn't need answers. If we had Yvette Cooper now, although she didn't have a policy, she would be looking at Blair type leads in the post Brexit climate.
Jarvis has to throw his hat in the ring-and pick a Corbynite as a deputy, and commit to half his cabinet positions to Corbynites, including keeping McDonnell as SC and allowing him complete freedom over shaping economic policy, and allowing a free members vote to determine nuclear weapons.
If he offers that to the members he'll win by a landslide against anyone, including St Jeremy of Corbyn.
Yes, quite right. I note that Nick still hasn't said whether he thinks Corbyn should do the honourable thing and resign.
Clearly Yvette is the best choice to lead the party. Yet the old left are so blinkered (an increasingly distasteful on immigration and Europe) that they cannot see it.
We are witnessing the death of a great party here.
Brutus up in about 30 minutes .... dagger dagger dagger ....
Mr Jack, have you ever experienced anything like this past week in your many, many, many years?
If the words of the late Rev Ian Paisley .... Never, Neveerr, Neveerrr.
I've booked to see James Graham's play "The House" at Chichester in the Autumn. It is a dramatization of the Labour minority Government of Callaghan in the 80s when MPs who were literally dying were ambulanced to the Palace of Westminster so legislation could be passed. When I saw the live transmission of the play from the NT to my local cinema a couple of years ago I thought: "If only politics were that exciting now..."
This is McDonnell wresting power from Corbyn. Plenty of Northern Labour MPs may well support him now if he goes for the leadership I reckon. Though he might play a longer game. He's got alot of low cunning.
This is amazing stuff, McDonnell is dangerous. He looks and sounds like a retired senior Met copper.
McDonnell is dangerous????- to be frank he is a paradigm of sense and stability after the Brexit loons. The extremity and consequences of Brexit means that the right will no longer be able to scaremonger about the dangers of the left.
It will now never see the light of day, but I had written a thread for Sunday headlined
'How the use of drugs and prostitutes propelled Boris Johnson to the cusp of Number 10'
Was looking back and thinking was Angus Deayton responsible for Brexit and Boris becoming PM.
If Angus Deayton hadn't been a naughty boy, then Boris would have presented Have I Got News For You, and gotten himself a very high profile and a certain popularity.
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
McDonnell has actually grasped what Labour needs to say to keep the Northern and Midland seats.
He is a winner if Corbyn will stand down....
I agree - McDonnell is far more impressive than Corbyn.
Yes I know that hsi support for Irish nationalism causes excitement. But when a senior IRA commander has been deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland for a good while now, I think it is less of an issue.
He also says he will never stand for the leadership but instead will campaign to get Jeremy Elected. Sounds similar to another politician saying he'd never run....
Queen Elizabeth The Second shook the hand of Martin McGuiness in the manner of reconciliation,a hugely symbolic but defining moment.
Brutus up in about 30 minutes .... dagger dagger dagger ....
Mr Jack, have you ever experienced anything like this past week in your many, many, many years?
If the words of the late Rev Ian Paisley .... Never, Neveerr, Neveerrr.
I've booked to see James Graham's play "The House" at Chichester in the Autumn. It is a dramatization of the Labour minority Government of Callaghan in the 80s when MPs who were literally dying were ambulanced to the Palace of Westminster so legislation could be passed. When I saw the live transmission of the play from the NT to my local cinema a couple of years ago I thought: "If only politics were that exciting now..."
Brutus up in about 30 minutes .... dagger dagger dagger ....
Mr Jack, have you ever experienced anything like this past week in your many, many, many years?
If the words of the late Rev Ian Paisley .... Never, Neveerr, Neveerrr.
I've booked to see James Graham's play "The House" at Chichester in the Autumn. It is a dramatization of the Labour minority Government of Callaghan in the 80s when MPs who were literally dying were ambulanced to the Palace of Westminster so legislation could be passed. When I saw the live transmission of the play from the NT to my local cinema a couple of years ago I thought: "If only politics were that exciting now..."
This is McDonnell wresting power from Corbyn. Plenty of Northern Labour MPs may well support him now if he goes for the leadership I reckon. Though he might play a longer game. He's got alot of low cunning.
This is amazing stuff, McDonnell is dangerous. He looks and sounds like a retired senior Met copper.
McDonnell is dangerous????- to be frank he is a paradigm of sense and stability after the Brexit loons. The extremity and consequences of Brexit means that the right will no longer be able to scaremonger about the dangers of the left.
I'm surprised you'd support a candidate who has just come out with a straight up Farage policy (No free movement) but we're into a "fast moving political enviroment"
Brutus up in about 30 minutes .... dagger dagger dagger ....
Mr Jack, have you ever experienced anything like this past week in your many, many, many years?
If the words of the late Rev Ian Paisley .... Never, Neveerr, Neveerrr.
I've booked to see James Graham's play "The House" at Chichester in the Autumn. It is a dramatization of the Labour minority Government of Callaghan in the 80s when MPs who were literally dying were ambulanced to the Palace of Westminster so legislation could be passed. When I saw the live transmission of the play from the NT to my local cinema a couple of years ago I thought: "If only politics were that exciting now..."
Be careful what you wish for.
We might see Gove die on his feet in a few minutes ....
McDonnell speaking now; says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Quote from the Guardian’s “instant” site
That is a huge policy statement. Massive.
I just caught this.
It seems like McDonnell would spit roast his granny alive for a spot of political advantage.
It's appalling cack-handed and disrespectful to coincide a leadership launch with the Somme memorial event. Even if this wasn't recognised when the launch was scheduled, when they realised they should have changed the time. Maybe they will?
This is McDonnell wresting power from Corbyn. Plenty of Northern Labour MPs may well support him now if he goes for the leadership I reckon. Though he might play a longer game. He's got alot of low cunning.
This is amazing stuff, McDonnell is dangerous. He looks and sounds like a retired senior Met copper.
McDonnell is dangerous????- to be frank he is a paradigm of sense and stability after the Brexit loons. The extremity and consequences of Brexit means that the right will no longer be able to scaremonger about the dangers of the left.
I'm surprised you'd support a candidate who has just come out with a straight up Farage policy (No free movement) but we're into a "fast moving political enviroment"
As an internationalist I cannot support an anti immigration eurosceptic under any circumstances.
So it looks like May. I'm entirely happy with that as long as she sees Brexit through properly. I hope she clears house a bit on the ministerial appointments side, starting with Osborne who is a malign figure and creator of far too much political intrigue when we need simple getting on with things. I'd very much like her to find a role for Daniel Hannan.
Hannan should be on the Brexit negotiating team, he's literally written books on the subject and knows Brussles inside out. I'm sure there will be a safe seat waiting for him in 2020 if not before. Witney maybe?
One point Mr Hannan makes about Brexit is that its a process, not a one off.
The UK-EU agreement will be important, but its not the end of the journey.
Absolutely, which is why people like Hannan need to be involved, along with others who understand what needs to happen and when. It's probably not an awful lot initially, and there's lots of pone trial to make the whole process much more difficult than it needs to be.
In parallel to the EU negotiations we also need to get other trade deals under discussion and encourage our major exporters to take advantage of the weakened pound. All the talking down of the economy needs stamping on.
We also need to be cunning and act as the French would do, ignoring any inconvenient EU rules from the moment we activate Article 50.
I was really impressed by the NZ Gov offering us their top trade negotiators. Someone earlier this week made an interesting observation. Brexiteers have been working on this for many years re the options, legal positions et al.
They may not agree on a single final destination outside the EU, but they know what's what - the Remainers assumed they'd walk it with scare stories and simply don't have the same depth of knowledge.
Absolutely. Most of the Commonwealth will see huge positives in the UK leaving the EU, trade deals should be pretty straightforward to arrange with countries that speak English and use Common Law. To see such positive statements from so many of them last week is very heartening.
There will be plenty more Hannans and Carswells out there, people who have given in some cases decades of thought into how we can divorce from the EU without taking too much of a hit. The IEA Brexit essays are also worth looking at again, from memory there were plenty of good ideas there. Above all we need to keep up the positivity, having a bunch of disgruntled Remain campaigners in there won't help anyone.
I don't see people having conniptions about Italy. We tend to concentrate on Greece. However, when we talk doom and gloom here, we really should be looking at Rome, not London.
As I said to tyson last night, Italy's GDP is roughly the same as it was in 2000. It hasn't had any appreciable economic growth in 15 years. That's a tragedy.
The extremity and consequences of Brexit means that the right will no longer be able to scaremonger about the dangers of the left.
Confirms you are deluded. Take a quick peak at Venezuela and tell us what % more like them you think we should be please. Corbyn says 100%, McDonnell 99%. You - only 80%?
Dominic Rabb - "As always, should you or any other member of the Gove team be caught or politically killed, then Michael will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This e-mail will self-destruct in five seconds unless Mrs Gove sends it to Sky News by 'accident'."
I think McDonnell's statement is pretty damned good. It's this sort of detailed analysis and forward-looking policy discussion that we need from anyone who is standing for the leadership (which apparently he isn't). If, say, Angela Eagle stands, I'm not interested in her opinions about Jeremy as I've heard them at length, I want to know what she stands for.
McDonnell's position is interesting if Corbyn did decide to step down. He has two big negatives - he's seen as much less sweet-natured than Corbyn by many other MPs (Corbyn is mostly liked by the resignees, they just don't think he's good at the job), and he once said pleasant things about the IRA (he's apologised and maybe it's yesterday's issue, or not?). On the other hand, he's a genuinely creative thinker who is doing a much better job of recognising changing realities and developing new policies (over everything from the economy to migration to Trident) than most shadow ministers. What do others think?
Comments
I was once called "The Angel of Death" by a banker I was about to interview.
Lead some has a good CV but let's not overhype it. Corporate governance is not generally a role where you have to confront difficult people or decisions or make difficult judgment calls. It's more of a back room role. She has a good CV by comparison with others who have little non-politics experience.
In the land of the blind etc.......
Michael Gove MP @Gove2016
I am delighted to be running for leadership of the Conservative Party #Gove2016
Jarvis has to throw his hat in the ring-and pick a Corbynite as a deputy, and commit to half his cabinet positions to Corbynites, including keeping McDonnell as SC and allowing him complete freedom over shaping economic policy, and allowing a free members vote to determine nuclear weapons.
If he offers that to the members he'll win by a landslide against anyone, including St Jeremy of Corbyn.
This is my strategy (+ laying Eagles)
He is a winner if Corbyn will stand down....
They may not agree on a single final destination outside the EU, but they know what's what - the Remainers assumed they'd walk it with scare stories and simply don't have the same depth of knowledge.
A two-choice referendum should have been easy to poll; much easier than a multiparty election. Yet the pollsters have been left looking rather poor.
McDonnell is asked how his plan is relevant without the support of MPs. He says Corbyn will take part in any Labour leadership contest and says he hopes MPs would respect the result, mentions the need for stability.
The party’s red lines are free trade in single market and that no EU nationals in UK now will have rights affected in future. There is no mention of campaigning to preserve free movement rights across Europe.
Then the next post:
McDonnell says he wants to be absolutely clear on immigration. After the UK leaves the EU “free movement of labour and people will come to an end.”
Anti-immigration feeling stemmed from austerity and economic uncertainty, he says, which Labour also needs to confront.
Not sure how that circle is squared...
The problem with it is that the same conditions of a corrupt and broken Labour party in Scotland taking its electorate for granted, behind the scenes shenanigans and all the various features had happened time and time again in Scotland (and probably elsewhere).
Going back to Helen Liddell and the Monklands scandal, it was clear that Labour had no interest in the people they represent and were involved in shady behind the scenes processes and corruption back in the 90s. There is no particular reason to assume that the Joyce and Falkirk incidents were particularly different or changed the public opinion on the party.
The real change - what put us here today - was the decision to use electronic countin in the 2007 Scottish Holyrood election which resulted in huge number of spoiled papers and the SNP winning a 1 seat minority that the other parties should never have let them govern on. That minority was won, in the tightest seat, by 48 votes in Cunninghame North. A seat with over 1000 spoiled papers.
No point in replacing your leader with someone worse.
Remember that political parties are their members - not their MPs.
On this day it is fitting we remember the terrible things that happened 100 years ago which affected our country so deeply.
The popular view of the battle is slightly at odds with the truth. Big mistakes were made, but in sum, it helped win the war, possibly even stopped Germany winning.
The French tactics were more advanced and their troops (especially artillery) more experienced than the British, one reason for our catastrophic early losses. But as time went on we inflicted terrible losses on the Germans too as we learnt the tactics of slaughter.
It is heartbreaking to read of some of the battlefield conditions, the lads whose job it was to run communication wires across the battlefield to recently captured trenches or just to the front line, and to do it again when the wires were blown up. The chaotic attempts to keep track of troops via reflective mirrors on their backs (!), the gas attacks, the mud, the cold, the barbed wire, rats, blood, agony and death.
And the survivors had to watch their sons go to war barely 20 years later. I cannot imagine how that must have felt.
Puts all the events of this week somewhat into perspective it seems to me.
Michael Gove, truly is a genius.
https://twitter.com/lindsaylohan/status/748620497185812480
Conservatives don't vote for assassins.
Note: Brutus did not succeed Caesar.
(Stands back to await flurry of classicist ire).
Yes I know that hsi support for Irish nationalism causes excitement. But when a senior IRA commander has been deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland for a good while now, I think it is less of an issue.
He also says he will never stand for the leadership but instead will campaign to get Jeremy Elected. Sounds similar to another politician saying he'd never run....
If he offers that to the members he'll win by a landslide against anyone, including St Jeremy of Corbyn.
This seems a bit optimistic - if not outright deluded. Labour has two fairly solidly entrenched camps:
1. The leadership and membership - very lefty loony Venezuela/IRA/SWP/Unionish
2. MPs and voters - Much more middle ground. Don't think Blair is Beelzebub.
These two camps are unreconcilable. Even if Saint Jarvis got elected what policy platform could be agreed? People who say war never solves anything are naïve idiots. War resolves lots. One side must win the Labour civil war.
Clearly Yvette is the best choice to lead the party. Yet the old left are so blinkered (an increasingly distasteful on immigration and Europe) that they cannot see it.
We are witnessing the death of a great party here.
Be careful what you wish for.
The extremity and consequences of Brexit means that the right will no longer be able to scaremonger about the dangers of the left.
'How the use of drugs and prostitutes propelled Boris Johnson to the cusp of Number 10'
Was looking back and thinking was Angus Deayton responsible for Brexit and Boris becoming PM.
If Angus Deayton hadn't been a naughty boy, then Boris would have presented Have I Got News For You, and gotten himself a very high profile and a certain popularity.
Boris capitulated barely 5 days after his greatest victory.
twitter.com/maldonstandard/status/748817468936757248
Fox still has a disturbingly high 1%....
It seems like McDonnell would spit roast his granny alive for a spot of political advantage.
There will be plenty more Hannans and Carswells out there, people who have given in some cases decades of thought into how we can divorce from the EU without taking too much of a hit. The IEA Brexit essays are also worth looking at again, from memory there were plenty of good ideas there. Above all we need to keep up the positivity, having a bunch of disgruntled Remain campaigners in there won't help anyone.
Didn't Falconer resign at the weekend?
Chortle ....
http://news.sky.com/story/1720178/corbyn-leader-challenge-in-next-few-days
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1373714/budget-airline-easyjet-in-talks-with-eu-governments-about-moving-its-hq-out-of-the-uk-after-brexit/
I don't see people having conniptions about Italy. We tend to concentrate on Greece. However, when we talk doom and gloom here, we really should be looking at Rome, not London.
As I said to tyson last night, Italy's GDP is roughly the same as it was in 2000. It hasn't had any appreciable economic growth in 15 years. That's a tragedy.
How many enemies has Gove the Betrayer slaughtered today?
Confirms you are deluded. Take a quick peak at Venezuela and tell us what % more like them you think we should be please. Corbyn says 100%, McDonnell 99%. You - only 80%?
May 1.36-1.37
Leadsom 5.9-6.0
Gove 17.0- 18.0
Crabb 42-48
Fox 60-70
It's such a contrast with the Tories.
Austria's highest court annuls presidential election narrowly lost by right-wing candidate
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/748819236378685440
I still have no idea what really happened yesterday. It's all very, very odd.
Dominic Rabb - "As always, should you or any other member of the Gove team be caught or politically killed, then Michael will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This e-mail will self-destruct in five seconds unless Mrs Gove sends it to Sky News by 'accident'."
I'm delighted for the Austrians. The whole thing smelled rotten. And the EU threatening them if they made the *wrong choice* was appalling.
McDonnell's position is interesting if Corbyn did decide to step down. He has two big negatives - he's seen as much less sweet-natured than Corbyn by many other MPs (Corbyn is mostly liked by the resignees, they just don't think he's good at the job), and he once said pleasant things about the IRA (he's apologised and maybe it's yesterday's issue, or not?). On the other hand, he's a genuinely creative thinker who is doing a much better job of recognising changing realities and developing new policies (over everything from the economy to migration to Trident) than most shadow ministers. What do others think?