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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May 7% ahead of Johnson amongst CON voters in first

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  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,202
    daodao said:

    It is in the interests of the EU to hold a metaphorical pistol to the head of the PM today, and force him to state in a minuted meeting of heads of state that the UK has decided to leave, which can be taken as having invoked A50.

    It may not be that simple...

    " In our constitution, Parliament gets to make this decision, not the Prime Minister."

    https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    I did say before the referendum that I thought leave would win, but that I was not so sure we would actually end up leaving. It's worth remembering, though, that as we voted Leave the "concessions" that Cameron won have now been cancelled, so we would stay on our old terms - unless a new deal was agreed.

    As for Labour, the choice is now a very simple one: do Labour members stick with Corbyn and kill the party or do they accept that a leader who has lost the support of the overwhelming of his MPs is no longer a viable option? I know which way they'll go. Goodbye Labour party.
  • <
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    geoffw said:

    May's "eurosceptic" support for Remain should rule her out.

    Clearly the country feels that is what it needs going on tonight's poll!

    Aren't we supposed to lay the early favourite in Tory party contests?
    Boris was the early favourite, he just lasted about 1 day!
    Long enough to still be layed, or is it time to lay May then?

    The mind boggles
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Gadfly said:

    daodao said:

    It is in the interests of the EU to hold a metaphorical pistol to the head of the PM today, and force him to state in a minuted meeting of heads of state that the UK has decided to leave, which can be taken as having invoked A50.

    It may not be that simple...

    " In our constitution, Parliament gets to make this decision, not the Prime Minister."

    https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/
    Parliament is superior to the PM, but the people are superior to Parliament.

    And the people have spoken.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Well, I think it's time for a lovely bowl of Sovereignty for breakfast...

    @guardian: UK loses triple-A credit rating after Brexit vote https://t.co/pZZ8F3ZwIY
  • Lesson to world. Don't F*** about with the people of Britain. Didn't 1940 teach you anything?
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    JackW said:

    safe, experienced and calm

    illiberal, proven failure, uninspiring.

    May is a far scarier prospect (I'm not a supporter of either)
  • kle4 said:

    Is that a dig by Her Majesty at the IRA's attempts to kill her family?

    Epic trolling your Majesty
    I don't know who should be more disgusted by the sight of McGuinness shaking the Queen's hand and making smalltalk - HMQ, McGuinness himself, or those of us having to watch it?!
    It's progress. To end things, sacrifices must be made. Including principles and dignity if needs be.
    That applies equally to the Brexit decision.

    HMQ has got dog whistling down to a fine art lately though
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    JackW said:

    Although not a Conservative member should the choice come down to Theresa May or Boris Johnson then the former is the overwhelming better option as PM. The nation requires a safe, experienced and calm pair of hands at the helm as the ship of state navigates the choppy waters ahead.

    What we most assuredly do not require is the high wire act that Boris represents let alone the total humiliation of the French laughing at the UK from dawn to dusk.

    .. in as much that they have someone just as bad if not worse to lead them?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
  • Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185
    Scott_P said:

    Well, I think it's time for a lovely bowl of Sovereignty for breakfast...

    @guardian: UK loses triple-A credit rating after Brexit vote https://t.co/pZZ8F3ZwIY

    Best make do with it whilst we can, next year all we'll be thankful for gruel ;-(
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Scott_P said:

    @vaughansalway: England result popular in Brussels last night. One table of English city types told by irate local to "get out, go home". Oh the irony.

    Scott_P said:

    @vaughansalway: England result popular in Brussels last night. One table of English city types told by irate local to "get out, go home". Oh the irony.

    Oh yes and of course thats not in your view racist or xenophobic ? I was in Brussels 3 weeks ago and also Paris over this period and was treated with respect and total decorum precisely how I treated anybody I met.

    You have really turned yourself into an utter total PB twat. Of course you were always were.

    You fucking lost get over it. I have.

    You are nothing less than a spoilt child with the terrible twos and no end of pasted tweets will make any difference
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    In the last few days Boris has lost any respect I had for him - and I respected him a lot - by his attitude to LEAVE actually winning the Ref. He looks like a man who, having his greatest desire within reach, is suddenly afraid of the task ahead, and wishes this was January and the whole episode had never happened.

    He'll have to do a hell of a lot to overcome his present attitude, if ever.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,259
    Scott_P said:

    Well, I think it's time for a lovely bowl of Sovereignty for breakfast...

    @guardian: UK loses triple-A credit rating after Brexit vote https://t.co/pZZ8F3ZwIY

    Again? We lost it before remember, just after Osborne made prorecting it a plank of his Chancellorship
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    Gadfly said:

    daodao said:

    It is in the interests of the EU to hold a metaphorical pistol to the head of the PM today, and force him to state in a minuted meeting of heads of state that the UK has decided to leave, which can be taken as having invoked A50.

    It may not be that simple...

    " In our constitution, Parliament gets to make this decision, not the Prime Minister."

    https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/
    The EU won't be bothered with the niceties of the UK's unwritten constitution.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.

    A Belgian woman in our marketing team was told to "Fuck off home you Polack" at the weekend. And she's not even Polish.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    I've just ordered Bonnie Tyler's Goalkeeping Blunders Vol 2. It's just totally clips of Joe Hart.
  • AndyJS said:

    Interesting how "racist" now seems to be used as a synonym for "xenophobic". If an English person attacks a Scottish person it can seemingly be described as "racist" even though most English and Scottish people are the same race, white Europeans. Not sure when this change in language happened.

    Xenephobic didnt scare the horses enough and half the people hearing it thought he was talking about his Greek brother in law
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307

    I've just ordered Bonnie Tyler's Goalkeeping Blunders Vol 2. It's just totally clips of Joe Hart.

    Boom tish.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    I've just ordered Bonnie Tyler's Goalkeeping Blunders Vol 2. It's just totally clips of Joe Hart.

    Very good Sir, up there with @TSE's eighties music puns. :D
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,587
    edited June 2016

    Dadge said:

    nunu said:

    nunu said:

    Calm down. He said "Britain must and will leave".
    Yeh, right.

    nunu said:

    And no Article 50.

    Mr Hunt says: “We must not invoke Article 50 straight away because that puts a time limit of two years on negotiations after which we could be thrown out with no deal at all. So before setting the clock ticking, we need to negotiate a deal and put it to the British people, either in a referendum or through the Conservative manifesto at a fresh General Election.”
    Calm down. He said "Britain must and will leave".
    Yeh, right.
    How much do u wanna bet we will be gone by 1st Jan 2019?
    Read the end of Mark Field's statement and weep, Brexiters http://markfieldmp.com/news-a-articles/to-those-constituents-demanding-a-second-referendum/
    A good spot. Of course he says we'll leave. It's just he sets out a number of irreconcilable conditions that all have to be met first and slips in we won't have left by the next scheduled GE in nearly 4 years time. He end end uses ' leave ' in inverted commas. Let me translate for you. " We can ' leave ' if we get the Financial Services Passport to save the City of London. Unfortunately that's impossible without jetisoning all the racist **** that was sold to the North. So best we leave it to a parliamentary election when we can safely shaft Labour voters in Bootle. "
    Important bit is he sees our FINAL say as being at a GE.
    I don't see how that would work unless the GE is next year.
    Now, it seems obvious that a new PM will have to sign it straight away. But if they do go for a GE - which everyone thinks quite likely - won't it occur to them not to sign it until after? The UK may still be better off waiting, and why put your name to it if you might not win the GE?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.

    A Belgian woman in our marketing team was told to "Fuck off home you Polack" at the weekend. And she's not even Polish.
    Really? That's sad, has the result really empowered all the morons in England? I'm heading back home for a bit next month, hope things have calmed down somewhat by then.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.

    A Belgian woman in our marketing team was told to "Fuck off home you Polack" at the weekend. And she's not even Polish.

    Hard to know where to actually tell her where to Fuck Off to as Belgium is only a pretendy country.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting how "racist" now seems to be used as a synonym for "xenophobic". If an English person attacks a Scottish person it can seemingly be described as "racist" even though most English and Scottish people are the same race, white Europeans. Not sure when this change in language happened.

    Xenephobic didnt scare the horses enough and half the people hearing it thought he was talking about his Greek brother in law
    Surely xenophobia is a strong dislike of Xenophon? :(
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    AndyJS said:
    Every now and then we need to be reminded that politicians aren't automata.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Independent: Nigel Evans says idea that Brexit will bring immigration down is a 'misunderstanding' https://t.co/B0YJaN8iUi

    @jimwaterson: Farage says he's worried voters are about to be let down by Vote Leave elites. Here's yer great betrayal narrative. https://t.co/cpLgPzDbCl

    Where are the cheering Brexiteers "dancing in their underwear" this morning?

    You won, remember?
  • Scott_P said:

    @vaughansalway: England result popular in Brussels last night. One table of English city types told by irate local to "get out, go home". Oh the irony.

    Why are you not condemning this blatently racist behaviour with the same enthusiasm that you condemn such behaviour in uk? That is a hate crime and it would appear to me that you find it amusing.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Sandpit said:

    I've just ordered Bonnie Tyler's Goalkeeping Blunders Vol 2. It's just totally clips of Joe Hart.

    Very good Sir, up there with @TSE's eighties music puns. :D
    Yes v good and as a bonus we don't have to hear any more about that bunch of overpaid footballers who always disappoint.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Sandpit said:

    I've just ordered Bonnie Tyler's Goalkeeping Blunders Vol 2. It's just totally clips of Joe Hart.

    Very good Sir, up there with @TSE's eighties music puns. :D
    Yes v good and as a bonus we don't have to hear any more about that bunch of overpaid footballers who always disappoint.
    The only disappointment to me is that I can't make any more money from TSE's golden betting rule this tournament.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,291
    Sky reporting that Jeremy Hunt is to stand. He is currently available at 33/1+ with a wide range (80/1 with BoyleSports if you trust what to me is an unknown quantity).

    I don't expect him to win and I think his position on the EU is daft but as a candidate his odds would surely shorten from those prices.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,873
    Alan Shearer says Iceland has more volcanoes than professional footballers.

    In fairness, our professional footballers also resemble our volcanoes. Huge lumps in the landscape, good to look at and haven't done anything useful for 50 million years.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,835
    Scott_P said:

    This is just depressing

    @AlbertoNardelli: We Visited The Town Where 75.6% Of People Voted To Leave The EU https://t.co/aqKEubM5x6

    “Around Boston, [it has] changed a lot now because people don’t seem friendly no more. The community has changed and we’ve had enough. They take our jobs, they take our shops, our NHS, they take our dentists, they take our doctors, the houses for council, and we’ve had enough.”

    of course it is and HMG did bugger all about it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,873

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,587
    Indigo said:

    nunu said:

    150 MPs planning to vote down Corbyn according to D Telegraph.

    Perfect time for Tories to call early GE in September, get workable majority to leave.
    They'd be wise not to. Pushing on with Leave will destroy the Tory party for decades.
    Where as ignoring the clearly expressed will of the public in a 72% turnout referendum won't ?
    Yes, they are in a bit of a pickle, aren't they? Especially as many of the Tory leavers will be more connected with the words of small and big business than the wwc leave voters. What a stroke of luck that the opposition chose just this moment to tear itself apart.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,835

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    No it didnt.

    It voted to control who comes here not to stop anyone coming.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    Well it will be better that some of the pretty evil stuff written about him on here from some of the usual suspects.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,873
    I've just looked at the new Shadow Cabinet.

    Is Corbyn joking? Surely even he couldn't have made Abbott shadow health secretary?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Scott_P said:

    @vaughansalway: England result popular in Brussels last night. One table of English city types told by irate local to "get out, go home". Oh the irony.

    Why are you not condemning this blatently racist behaviour with the same enthusiasm that you condemn such behaviour in uk? That is a hate crime and it would appear to me that you find it amusing.
    Small proportion of morons, this kind of stuff always happens. Can't blame it on the referendum.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    No it didnt.

    It voted to control who comes here not to stop anyone coming.
    If people feel unwanted, that's how they feel.

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    corporeal said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting how "racist" now seems to be used as a synonym for "xenophobic". If an English person attacks a Scottish person it can seemingly be described as "racist" even though most English and Scottish people are the same race, white Europeans. Not sure when this change in language happened.

    Scientifically speaking there are no discrete races.
    Or that bumblebees can fly.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    No it didnt.

    It voted to control who comes here not to stop anyone coming.
    I fear you are wasting your time, they hear what they want to hear.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,082
    Is the country trying to emerge from this clusterf*ck by having a second referendum? This seems to be gaining traction.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,873

    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    Well it will be better that some of the pretty evil stuff written about him on here from some of the usual suspects.
    I'm sorry to disillusion you, but history is 90% written by left-wing ideologues. They will all be fuming at the result and spend their time savaging him for it.

    That's how Baldwin and Chamberlain, the motor of the National Government, got so badly mauled - they were trying to explain the left's utter political, moral and intellectual failure in the 1920s and 1930s. Of course, this merely made Labour's failure look all the more abject!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Indigo said:

    I fear you are wasting your time, they hear what they want to hear.

    Indeed.

    Many people last week heard "immigrants will leave" and voted for it
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,291
    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    History will be kinder to George Osborne than to Neville Chamberlain. Chancellors of the Exchequer are routinely forgotten.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Sky reporting that Jeremy Hunt is to stand. He is currently available at 33/1+ with a wide range (80/1 with BoyleSports if you trust what to me is an unknown quantity).

    I don't expect him to win and I think his position on the EU is daft but as a candidate his odds would surely shorten from those prices.

    There's a little 34 left on Betfair. Might be a good trading bet if he does run, although TBH I really hope that few do - lets get the new PM in place quickly to get on with running the country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,813
    murali_s said:

    Is the country trying to emerge from this clusterf*ck by having a second referendum? This seems to be gaining traction.

    No as that would lead to national humiliation, a return to the EU with full integration and maybe the Euro too
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: EU exit deal will effect Britain for next century so right to take time and have 2nd referendum says Jeremy Hunt
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    Well it will be better that some of the pretty evil stuff written about him on here from some of the usual suspects.
    I'm sorry to disillusion you, but history is 90% written by left-wing ideologues. They will all be fuming at the result and spend their time savaging him for it.

    That's how Baldwin and Chamberlain, the motor of the National Government, got so badly mauled - they were trying to explain the left's utter political, moral and intellectual failure in the 1920s and 1930s. Of course, this merely made Labour's failure look all the more abject!
    What should they have done? Criminalised egalitariansm, perhaps?

  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    I know it's only a poll and we know how good they've been recently, but that yougov poll has labour ahead of conservative on voting intention. yet all the chatter is saying labour would get hammered if a new tory PM called an election.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,475
    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Is the country trying to emerge from this clusterf*ck by having a second referendum? This seems to be gaining traction.

    No as that would lead to national humiliation, a return to the EU with full integration and maybe the Euro too
    Not saying it's going to happen, but we wouldn't be forced into anything as we haven't triggered article 50.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,873

    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    History will be kinder to George Osborne than to Neville Chamberlain. Chancellors of the Exchequer are routinely forgotten.
    Perhaps we should compare him to Sir Stafford Northcote, whom most people will never have heard of and whose mind bending uselessness as Leader of the Opposition 1880-85 is therefore forgotten?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,082
    edited June 2016

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    No it didnt.

    It voted to control who comes here not to stop anyone coming.
    What's the perception though? The Leave vote has emboldened the bigots and racists of this country to do their worst. This perception has been reinforced by the The Leave campaign's xenophobic focus.

    "Not everyone who vote Leave are racist, but all racists vote Leave"
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    George Osborne is a young man. He may yet have a long contribution to politics ahead of him.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,587
    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Is the country trying to emerge from this clusterf*ck by having a second referendum? This seems to be gaining traction.

    No as that would lead to national humiliation, a return to the EU with full integration and maybe the Euro too
    Eh? Not if we never left. It might be the EUrocrats worst nightmare, but they can't kick us out.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,291
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    Well it will be better that some of the pretty evil stuff written about him on here from some of the usual suspects.
    I'm sorry to disillusion you, but history is 90% written by left-wing ideologues. They will all be fuming at the result and spend their time savaging him for it.

    That's how Baldwin and Chamberlain, the motor of the National Government, got so badly mauled - they were trying to explain the left's utter political, moral and intellectual failure in the 1920s and 1930s. Of course, this merely made Labour's failure look all the more abject!
    Come on, YD, you know better than that. "HIstory will be kind to me, for I intend to write it". And in writing it from such a towering moral position, he had to establish a baseline that inevitably meant that Baldwin and Chamberlain would suffer - though not unjustly: Baldwin was a decent peacetime PM and Chamberlain a very good Chancellor and an outstanding Minister of Health, but neither were up to the challenge that they ultimately faced.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Never disappointing...

    @NadineDorriesMP: Boris Johnson will not call a General Election if selected to lead the Conservative party. He has a mandate from 17.4 million people #brexit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,813
    MikeK said:

    In the last few days Boris has lost any respect I had for him - and I respected him a lot - by his attitude to LEAVE actually winning the Ref. He looks like a man who, having his greatest desire within reach, is suddenly afraid of the task ahead, and wishes this was January and the whole episode had never happened.

    He'll have to do a hell of a lot to overcome his present attitude, if ever.

    May now has to win and probably will win. She is the tough head needed for the negotiations, Boris was always all about Boris
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.

    A Belgian woman in our marketing team was told to "Fuck off home you Polack" at the weekend. And she's not even Polish.

    Curious, ive never ever ever heard someone in the UK use the word Polack in any context whatsoever.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    If her colleagues are filling her head with nonsense like that, it's no wonder she feels unwelcome.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,873

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    Well it will be better that some of the pretty evil stuff written about him on here from some of the usual suspects.
    I'm sorry to disillusion you, but history is 90% written by left-wing ideologues. They will all be fuming at the result and spend their time savaging him for it.

    That's how Baldwin and Chamberlain, the motor of the National Government, got so badly mauled - they were trying to explain the left's utter political, moral and intellectual failure in the 1920s and 1930s. Of course, this merely made Labour's failure look all the more abject!
    What should they have done? Criminalised egalitariansm, perhaps?

    That seems a non sequitur. Have you misunderstood my comment? On reading it, it could have been clearer.

    I was saying Baldwin and Chamberlain were demonised by historians for winning, when most left wing historians firmly believe they should have been easily beaten by a Socialist party, because that is who they would have voted for.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,813
    Scott_P said:

    @vaughansalway: England result popular in Brussels last night. One table of English city types told by irate local to "get out, go home". Oh the irony.

    I do hope Wales beat Belgium!
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Dear me - not another day of this?

    My favourite huffy teenager behaviour from the EU is the intention to throw English out as an official language. I wonder what they'll use instead - or expect Ireland to say about that?!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    I do hope Wales beat Belgium!

    Me too

    Clutches 60/1 betting slip...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,475
    Scott_P said:

    Never disappointing...

    @NadineDorriesMP: Boris Johnson will not call a General Election if selected to lead the Conservative party. He has a mandate from 17.4 million people #brexit

    Got enough popcorn over there? God help us if he wins!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    If her colleagues are filling her head with nonsense like that, it's no wonder she feels unwelcome.
    It is not me saying it. It is our politicians. She is not deaf or blind.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    murali_s said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    No it didnt.

    It voted to control who comes here not to stop anyone coming.
    What's the perception though? The Leave vote has emboldened the bigots and racists of this country to do their worst. This perception has been reinforced by the The Leave campaign's xenophobic focus.

    "Not everyone who vote Leave are racist, but all racists vote Leave"
    Still repeating that lie?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    edited June 2016
    notme said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.

    A Belgian woman in our marketing team was told to "Fuck off home you Polack" at the weekend. And she's not even Polish.

    Curious, ive never ever ever heard someone in the UK use the word Polack in any context whatsoever.

    Well, you clearly don't get out much. It's a US import as we have not had many Poles here until recently, so have not developed our own unpleasant term.

  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    A lot of the tales of racism and abuse we've heard since the weekend don't have the ring of truth. I suspect a large majority of them are inventions.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,475
    PlatoSaid said:

    Dear me - not another day of this?

    My favourite huffy teenager behaviour from the EU is the intention to throw English out as an official language. I wonder what they'll use instead - or expect Ireland to say about that?!

    And Malta?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,082
    edited June 2016

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    If her colleagues are filling her head with nonsense like that, it's no wonder she feels unwelcome.
    It is not me saying it. It is our politicians. She is not deaf or blind.
    Yep, the racists are on the march. The PB Burleys (many of whom are ironically bigoted themselves) will put their heads in the sand and deny this.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @vaughansalway: England result popular in Brussels last night. One table of English city types told by irate local to "get out, go home". Oh the irony.

    I do hope Wales beat Belgium!
    So do I.

    *clutches 75/1 betslip*
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,873
    edited June 2016

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    Well it will be better that some of the pretty evil stuff written about him on here from some of the usual suspects.
    I'm sorry to disillusion you, but history is 90% written by left-wing ideologues. They will all be fuming at the result and spend their time savaging him for it.

    That's how Baldwin and Chamberlain, the motor of the National Government, got so badly mauled - they were trying to explain the left's utter political, moral and intellectual failure in the 1920s and 1930s. Of course, this merely made Labour's failure look all the more abject!
    Come on, YD, you know better than that. "HIstory will be kind to me, for I intend to write it". And in writing it from such a towering moral position, he had to establish a baseline that inevitably meant that Baldwin and Chamberlain would suffer - though not unjustly: Baldwin was a decent peacetime PM and Chamberlain a very good Chancellor and an outstanding Minister of Health, but neither were up to the challenge that they ultimately faced.
    Very few historians cite Churchill uncritically. Indeed Cannadine seems to assume if Churchill says it, the opposite is true. But many still use the earlier polemic Guilty Men as a source, despite its many well-publicised flaws. That is then used as an excuse to extend criticism to Conservative failure to adopt radical social and economic policy. Martin Pugh called it the 'belated victory' of the left, and so did I in an earlier work on the 1920s.

    Perhaps Osborne will be forgotten but it is most unlikely he will be remembered kindly. His economic policy was by the standards he set a failure and his social policy is a smoking ruin. Finally, he was a high-profile casualty of the referendum. Not a great record.

    However, your tips not to back him as NTL proved to be completely correct!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    If her colleagues are filling her head with nonsense like that, it's no wonder she feels unwelcome.

    You may have missed a few of the newspaper headlines.

  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.
    You're right that the campaigns were disgusting (on both sides, to be fair), and we are where we are.

    It's sad that a small but vocal minority of idiots are hijacking the result for their own ends, so as @Patrick says we all need to go and hug our friends and colleagues, make sure they know that they are not unwanted and that Britian is still a welcoming place.
    It isn't a welcoming place though.

    Britain just voted explicitly to stop people like her coming and settling here.
    If her colleagues are filling her head with nonsense like that, it's no wonder she feels unwelcome.
    It is not me saying it. It is our politicians. She is not deaf or blind.
    You just said it, they haven't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863
    nunu said:

    And no Article 50.

    Mr Hunt says: “We must not invoke Article 50 straight away because that puts a time limit of two years on negotiations after which we could be thrown out with no deal at all. So before setting the clock ticking, we need to negotiate a deal and put it to the British people, either in a referendum or through the Conservative manifesto at a fresh General Election.”
    Calm down. He said "Britain must and will leave".
    I think it's giving people hope as while that's what those at the top are saying, by suggesting we can't declare without going a deal first, which the eu says won't happen, it sounds possible he's 'saying' something else. But I'm with you. Tactics are being utilised to try and gain as much time as possible, but the endgame is accepted.

    Hunts plan for a referendum or election on a deal makes no sense though, since that risks no deal, which is what he says we need to avoid. That also gives hope to people, as if we won't declare until a deal is done, and then we vote it down, how to we then declare? His is a silly plan.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Scott_P said:

    Never disappointing...

    @NadineDorriesMP: Boris Johnson will not call a General Election if selected to lead the Conservative party. He has a mandate from 17.4 million people #brexit

    That's very fair. He has also made a series of promises that will need to be delivered.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Betfair next PM market crossover today?
    Boris 2.5, Theresa 2.7.
    http://politicalodds.bet/next-prime-minister?time=7#i

    There's also some arbs available between Next PM market and next Conservative Leader market if anyone thinks they're effectively the same.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    notme said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.

    A Belgian woman in our marketing team was told to "Fuck off home you Polack" at the weekend. And she's not even Polish.

    Curious, ive never ever ever heard someone in the UK use the word Polack in any context whatsoever.
    Me neither. I enjoyed the supposed anti-Polish graffiti - it was signed UKIP. Even the stupidest kid knows not to stick your name on your toilet wall missives. That's no excuse for any genuine nitwittery - but there's rather too much to be gained by trying to up the anti from angry Remainers. We're already seen the publicity that recycled tweet from 4yrs ago got.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,813

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @vaughansalway: England result popular in Brussels last night. One table of English city types told by irate local to "get out, go home". Oh the irony.

    I do hope Wales beat Belgium!
    So do I.

    *clutches 75/1 betslip*
    Indeed I would happily have traded Iceland beating England for a Welsh win over the Belgians, we shall see
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863
    Dadge said:

    corporeal said:

    AndyJS said:

    corporeal said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting how "racist" now seems to be used as a synonym for "xenophobic". If an English person attacks a Scottish person it can seemingly be described as "racist" even though most English and Scottish people are the same race, white Europeans. Not sure when this change in language happened.

    Scientifically speaking there are no discrete races.
    That's right and I would prefer to get rid of the idea altogether.
    I suspect the simplicity and resonance of racist will always make it win out over xenophobia. Tthe meaning has broadened, i can't remember the proper linguistical term for it
    http://grammar.about.com/od/ab/g/broadenterm.htm
    Don't show that to Scott, he doesn't like people broadening the meaning of words, it means they're thick.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,813

    George Osborne is a young man. He may yet have a long contribution to politics ahead of him.

    May will make him ambassador to Brussels!
  • eekeek Posts: 30,084

    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to hear from the 1% of people who voted leave who think osborne would be the best PM. did they tick the wrong box on thursday?

    Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
    Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
    History will be kinder to George Osborne than to Neville Chamberlain. Chancellors of the Exchequer are routinely forgotten.
    Only because Chancellors usually get forgotten. I'm not sure that is going to be the case here though. We have a structural deficit that has been created and left unfixed over the past 14 years. My inkling is that the person who created it and the people who failed to fix it will be treated with contempt for a long time to come..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    kle4 said:

    nunu said:

    And no Article 50.

    Mr Hunt says: “We must not invoke Article 50 straight away because that puts a time limit of two years on negotiations after which we could be thrown out with no deal at all. So before setting the clock ticking, we need to negotiate a deal and put it to the British people, either in a referendum or through the Conservative manifesto at a fresh General Election.”
    Calm down. He said "Britain must and will leave".
    I think it's giving people hope as while that's what those at the top are saying, by suggesting we can't declare without going a deal first, which the eu says won't happen, it sounds possible he's 'saying' something else. But I'm with you. Tactics are being utilised to try and gain as much time as possible, but the endgame is accepted.

    Hunts plan for a referendum or election on a deal makes no sense though, since that risks no deal, which is what he says we need to avoid. That also gives hope to people, as if we won't declare until a deal is done, and then we vote it down, how to we then declare? His is a silly plan.
    Any second referendum needs to be of the form "Do you accept this deal for EFTA/EEA/whatever, or should we revert to WTO rules when we leave?"

    The question of should we leave the EU has already been answered, trying to ask it again will meet a predictable response from the people.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,813
    edited June 2016
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Is the country trying to emerge from this clusterf*ck by having a second referendum? This seems to be gaining traction.

    No as that would lead to national humiliation, a return to the EU with full integration and maybe the Euro too
    Eh? Not if we never left. It might be the EUrocrats worst nightmare, but they can't kick us out.
    They can take Cameron's renegotiation off the table though, which they will. We would be in on much worse terms than had Remain won
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    PlatoSaid said:

    notme said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.

    A Belgian woman in our marketing team was told to "Fuck off home you Polack" at the weekend. And she's not even Polish.

    Curious, ive never ever ever heard someone in the UK use the word Polack in any context whatsoever.
    Me neither. I enjoyed the supposed anti-Polish graffiti - it was signed UKIP. Even the stupidest kid knows not to stick your name on your toilet wall missives. That's no excuse for any genuine nitwittery - but there's rather too much to be gained by trying to up the anti from angry Remainers. We're already seen the publicity that recycled tweet from 4yrs ago got.

    If you are implying or claiming that I am making it up then why not just say so?

  • RealBritainRealBritain Posts: 255
    PlatoSaid said:

    notme said:

    Sandpit said:

    Patrick said:

    Small request from Patrick to the people of the UK:
    Like, I suspect, most Leave voters, I voted out because of the fundamental issue of sovereignty and democracy. If you can't vote for a change of policy in the EU then it is a prison not a democracy. Some, however, seem to have taken the result to be a green light to become arseholes. Please go out of your way to be kind, friendly, welcoming and respectful towards everyone in this country - especially the immigrants or native Brits of an ethnic minority.

    Well said @Patrick. The sad story yesterday from Dr @foxinsoxuk about EU medical staff feeling unwelcome is deeply regrettable. They should know that there will always be space for those who can make such a valuable contribution to the UK, no matter where they were born or what colour is their skin.

    It does appear that a bunch of racist organisations have taken the result as an endorsement of their beliefs in the UK, which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
    It doesn't work like that.

    The Spanish nurse I was speaking to has had no personal abuse. She has simply been made to feel unwanted.

    Leave has made their bed and will have to lie in it.

    A Belgian woman in our marketing team was told to "Fuck off home you Polack" at the weekend. And she's not even Polish.

    Curious, ive never ever ever heard someone in the UK use the word Polack in any context whatsoever.
    Me neither. I enjoyed the supposed anti-Polish graffiti - it was signed UKIP. Even the stupidest kid knows not to stick your name on your toilet wall missives. That's no excuse for any genuine nitwittery - but there's rather too much to be gained by trying to up the anti from angry Remainers. We're already seen the publicity that recycled tweet from 4yrs ago got.
    you enjoy it ?

    Is that the right choice of words ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,813
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Is the country trying to emerge from this clusterf*ck by having a second referendum? This seems to be gaining traction.

    No as that would lead to national humiliation, a return to the EU with full integration and maybe the Euro too
    Not saying it's going to happen, but we wouldn't be forced into anything as we haven't triggered article 50.
    We would lose the renegotiation
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    murali_s said:

    Is the country trying to emerge from this clusterf*ck by having a second referendum? This seems to be gaining traction.

    The second referendum being talking of now is one in two years or so to ratify our Brexit deal.

    A rejection of that and... well, it's WTO rules only lol
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    PlatoSaid said:

    Dear me - not another day of this?

    My favourite huffy teenager behaviour from the EU is the intention to throw English out as an official language. I wonder what they'll use instead - or expect Ireland to say about that?!

    Astonishing, isn't it?

    Manic tweet screeching is making this place unreadable as well.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Who is backing David Miliband as next Labour leader? I've just laid him at 14 and I know others have got shorter prices, but the mechanics for getting him in look highly circuitous and there's no suggestion that he's even thought about it.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    A lot of the tales of racism and abuse we've heard since the weekend don't have the ring of truth. I suspect a large majority of them are inventions.

    On facebook yesterday, clearly made up, like those overly emotional facebook stories about someone in a fast food place hugging/paying for/ helping a muslim/gay/black/veteran/disabled woman or man on the receiving end of some entirely implausible piece of nonsense, using the type of language that someone thinks a bigot would use. When the good Samaritan step's in, everyone claps, tears in abundance. The end of the story we often found the person being saved is a doctor/brain surgeon/ nurse/abuse victim.

    "Please read and share:

    Right, this isn't about the EU. This is about pure hatred and in all honesty I'm getting sick of it.

    Last night I couldn't be arsed cooking so decided to order a burger in. The guy that delivered it was Romanian. When he went to pass me the food I noticed something on his jacket. I said to him 'You've got a stain or something on your jacket there mate'. He said 'I know, I'm sorry, I haven't had time to wash it off, it's egg, it was the person on my last delivery'. I asked him what he meant and he went on to tell me that after his last delivery, the person had gone on a rant telling him 'we voted leave, why are you still here?' In short.

    Then, after he collected the money (without a tip, obviously) he was walking away from the house when the man shouted him back. As he walked back, the man and his wife threw two eggs at him, both of which hit him, before shouting 'fuck off home, polish scum' (bearing in mind he is Romanian).

    As he told me the story, he genuinely had a tear in his eye. He finished by saying 'but I still love England, my friend'. I asked him how much he made an hour, he told me £4 plus 50p for every delivery made. I gave a £10 tip and finished by apologised to him for the behaviour of people in this country. He grabbed my hand, gave me a quick hug and said 'I'll never forget this, thank you friend'.

    It's easy to disregard posts like this on Facebook until you experience it yourself first hand. There are plenty of similar posts all around the Internet, which suggests this situation is only getting worse.

    Please share the love, eliminate the hate and stand up to evil, not in the way of good."
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    PlatoSaid said:

    Dear me - not another day of this?

    My favourite huffy teenager behaviour from the EU is the intention to throw English out as an official language. I wonder what they'll use instead - or expect Ireland to say about that?!

    So speaks someone completely immune to any negative consequences of Brexit.

This discussion has been closed.