In my opinion, Boris lost all right to take over once it was clear he had no earthly idea what to do next. Same goes for most of the other Leavers. Now that we're in this mess, there are probably two alternatives - either go for the safest pair of hands you can think of, which must be May, or go for the most nationally uniting ticket, which would be Crabb and Javid. I honestly hope the Tories go for the latter, though I don't really think they will.
It also occurs to me that this is such a frenzied time because there are a lot of, at least perceived, last chances. This is probably the last chance to come up with a solution that will save the UK as a country for the next 10 years; the last chance for Labour to get rid of Corbyn before he leads them to disaster; maybe the last chance for the EU to save itself before collapsing under the weight of unbalanced economies and continent-wide unpopularity.
With so much being at stake, can there be any justification (other than watching him fail) to putting Boris in charge?
Who says Boris doesn't have a clear idea of what to do next?
You may say that because you don't like him, but until Cameron/Osborne step aside and allow new potential leaders to make their spiels, it remains very much in the existing leadership to handle the situation.
Shame Cameron never considered the possibility of losing, and failed to put a contingency plan in place.
Some thoughts following the referendum. I voted for David Cameron to become Tory leader when I was a member. I always had a high opinion of him until he tried to sell his renegotiation as a good deal. I lost all faith then. He was right to resign but we need a new leader quickly.
The complete lack of preparation for the possibility of a Brexit vote is completely shocking. It is clear that the vast majority of Government and Opposition did not want or expect Brexit. However, they should have prepared for what the next steps would have been. To have not done so is in my view a massive dereliction of duty.
I had always liked Boris but I think his performance since the result have been dire. He should've been straight onto the airwaves calming things and reassuring that plans are being put in place, nothing changes immediately but we're now working on the best solution. I don't have a vote now for Tory leader but I would go for Theresa May now if I did.
When -
Europe would hate this but we are within our rights to do this. Leave the EU and look out to the world!
I was a Leaver and was beginning to have #Bremorse having seen the markets go into full panic mode. However, having seem the EU reaction and having thought some more about the possibilities of making our own deals with other countries throughout the world I am much more positive. Also, the panic in the markets across the world seems massively overdone - are they really saying that the UK leaving the EU is going to have such a major impact that it causes an economic meltdown more than in 2008? Nothing has really changed (yet) so it seems to me now to be everyone getting the wobbles.
As for Labour - they have no choice but to split now.
2nd EU referendum? Not unless it is to ratify our approach to leaving the EU.
There won't be another referendum The next Tory leader will call a GE & put continued membership in the Tory manifesto. In the meantime the s.50 application will be put on hold.
What about if every party, UKIP aside, put continued membership in their manifesto? Could get very interesting then!
If that happened, then look to see UKIP .win 30% or so.
... and come second in lots of places, maybe win 10MPs.
30% in a three way contest should result in a lot of MP's. Let's face it, you won't get far in places like Hull, Hartlepool, Sunderland, Thurrock, Basildon, Boston, Castle Point, Mansfield etc. If you're campaigning to overturn the result of the Referendum.
Some good news - the FTSE 250 is sharply up this morning. Hopefully, the initial shit-storm is abating.
Sadly some on PB would rather a recession than Brexit be a success.
I don't think SO is one of those! But on Twitter you get the sense that some on the left want Britain to fall to bits.
I'm confident it won't.
No, not SO but there are plenty on here who seem delighted at the prospect of a UK recession.
No were not, we are angry because we said this all through the campaign. And in return we just had the smug scaremongering reply.
And the recession is coming to pass, and it is going to be worse than project fear spelt out. Our real economy is now grinding to a shuddering halt.....don't look at the ups and downs of the stock market (which is bad enough)- look at people and businesses spending money, banks lending money. I think you'll find we've hit a wall.
I am so annoyed because we can no more think that we can exist outside Europe, outside the common market than we could living without a vital organ.
Tyson you very sensibly said a few days ago that there was no point even looking at the effects of Brexit overall for 6 months. We just won't know until we have enough data.
I would suggest you stick to that rather than bigging up your own fears.
I was referring to the stock market and sterling- but I think now the 20% correction is going to be happen sooner.
The real economy- you know that bit that employs people and pays tax- that part is already gone. When you have those quarterly revisions- and you get comments like...the weather had an impact, and growth was 1,3% instead of 1.4%....what kind of impact do you think this monumental clusterfuck is having? It's going to feed into those economic growth figures quarter after quarter. Britain will come out of this.....not as bad as the 2008 crash, but we are a much weaker economy now than then. And like always the poor will suffer.
BTW a house price crash is not good for the economy, well not ours which is driven by consumer debt
We shall see. I am not concerned at all at the moment and am more than happy to wait and see what happens rather than fearing (as you do) or wishing (as people like Scott clearly do) that things will all go horribly wrong.
Some good news - the FTSE 250 is sharply up this morning. Hopefully, the initial shit-storm is abating.
Sadly some on PB would rather a recession than Brexit be a success.
I don't think SO is one of those! But on Twitter you get the sense that some on the left want Britain to fall to bits.
I'm confident it won't.
No, not SO but there are plenty on here who seem delighted at the prospect of a UK recession.
No were not, we are angry because we said this all through the campaign. And in return we just had the smug scaremongering reply.
And the recession is coming to pass, and it is going to be worse than project fear spelt out. Our real economy is now grinding to a shuddering halt.....don't look at the ups and downs of the stock market (which is bad enough)- look at people and businesses spending money, banks lending money. I think you'll find we've hit a wall.
I am so annoyed because we can no more think that we can exist outside Europe, outside the common market than we could living without a vital organ.
Tyson you very sensibly said a few days ago that there was no point even looking at the effects of Brexit overall for 6 months. We just won't know until we have enough data.
I would suggest you stick to that rather than bigging up your own fears.
I have an investment bond (up) and ISA (down). And an American bond (up). Don’t know how the people who manage my pension funds are coping, but nothing’s been said yet about income changes. But I wouldn't expect any changes for a while. My main concern, as a regular traveller to Thailand, is that the £ has slid about 10% against the Baht.
Osborne is much maligned. History will be kinder to him.
Neville Chamberlain thought the same. Remind me, how did that work out?
Well it will be better that some of the pretty evil stuff written about him on here from some of the usual suspects.
I'm sorry to disillusion you, but history is 90% written by left-wing ideologues. They will all be fuming at the result and spend their time savaging him for it.
That's how Baldwin and Chamberlain, the motor of the National Government, got so badly mauled - they were trying to explain the left's utter political, moral and intellectual failure in the 1920s and 1930s. Of course, this merely made Labour's failure look all the more abject!
Very few historians cite Churchill uncritically. Indeed Cannadine seems to assume if Churchill says it, the opposite is true. But many still use the earlier polemic Guilty Men as a source, despite its many well-publicised flaws. That is then used as an excuse to extend criticism to Conservative failure to adopt radical social and economic policy. Martin Pugh called it the 'belated victory' of the left, and so did I in an earlier work on the 1920s.
Perhaps Osborne will be forgotten but it is most unlikely he will be remembered kindly. His economic policy was by the standards he set a failure and his social policy is a smoking ruin. Finally, he was a high-profile casualty of the referendum. Not a great record.
However, your tips not to back him as NTL proved to be completely correct!
I'd agree with historians re Churchill's narrative re the pre-war years (and Churchill implicitly made the same observation in that quote), but I'd distinguish between popular history and proper historians; the latter regard Chamberlain with some credit, both for his work in the 1920s and earlier 1930s and, to a lesser extent, for his achievements within the constraints he had as PM. Popular history just remembers him as selling out the Czechs at Munich for no gain.
I agree re Guilty Men though I suspect that most who do so do it because, as you say, they have an underlying economic and social agenda to push. It's notable how Lansbury and Attlee weren't among the indicted in that pamphlet.
Some thoughts following the referendum. I voted for David Cameron to become Tory leader when I was a member. I always had a high opinion of him until he tried to sell his renegotiation as a good deal. I lost all faith then. He was right to resign but we need a new leader quickly.
The complete lack of preparation for the possibility of a Brexit vote is completely shocking. It is clear that the vast majority of Government and Opposition did not want or expect Brexit. However, they should have prepared for what the next steps would have been. To have not done so is in my view a massive dereliction of duty.
I had always liked Boris but I think his performance since the result have been dire. He should've been straight onto the airwaves calming things and reassuring that plans are being put in place, nothing changes immediately but we're now working on the best solution. I don't have a vote now for Tory leader but I would go for Theresa May now
Europe would hate this but we are within our rights to do this. Leave the EU and look out to the world!
I was a Leaver and was beginning to have #Bremorse having seen the markets go into full panic mode. However, having seem the EU reaction and having thought some more about the possibilities of making our own deals with other countries throughout the world I am much more positive. Also, the panic in the markets across the world seems massively overdone - are they really saying that the UK leaving the EU is going to have such a major impact that it causes an economic meltdown more than in 2008? Nothing has really changed (yet) so it seems to me now to be everyone getting the wobbles.
As for Labour - they have no choice but to split now.
2nd EU referendum? Not unless it is to ratify our approach to leaving the EU.
There won't be another referendum The next Tory leader will call a GE & put continued membership in the Tory manifesto. In the meantime the s.50 application will be put on hold.
What about if every party, UKIP aside, put continued membership in their manifesto? Could get very interesting then!
If that happened, then look to see UKIP .win 30% or so.
... and come second in lots of places, maybe win 10MPs.
in ordinary circumstances, they wouldn't. But if a general election were fought on the basis of Conservatives, Labour, and Lib Dems all opposing the Referendum outcome, those would not be ordinary circumstances.
Some thoughts following the referendum. I voted for David Cameron to become Tory leader when I was a member. I always had a high opinion of him until he tried to sell his renegotiation as a good deal. I lost all faith then. He was right to resign but we need a new leader quickly.
The complete lack of preparation for the possibility of a Brexit vote is completely shocking. It is clear that the vast majority of Government and Opposition did not want or expect Brexit. However, they should have prepared for what the next steps would have been. To have not done so is in my view a massive dereliction of duty.
I had always liked Boris but I think his performance since the result have been dire. He should've been straight onto the airwaves calming things and reassuring that plans are being put in place, nothing changes immediately but we're now working on the best solution. I don't have a vote now for Tory leader but I would go for Theresa May now
Europe would hate this but we are within our rights to do this. Leave the EU and look out to the world!
I was a Leaver and was beginning to have #Bremorse having seen the markets go into full panic mode. However, having seem the EU reaction and having thought some more about the possibilities of making our own deals with other countries throughout the world I am much more positive. Also, the panic in the markets across the world seems massively overdone - are they really saying that the UK leaving the EU is going to have such a major impact that it causes an economic meltdown more than in 2008? Nothing has really changed (yet) so it seems to me now to be everyone getting the wobbles.
As for Labour - they have no choice but to split now.
2nd EU referendum? Not unless it is to ratify our approach to leaving the EU.
There won't be another referendum The next Tory leader will call a GE & put continued membership in the Tory manifesto. In the meantime the s.50 application will be put on hold.
What about if every party, UKIP aside, put continued membership in their manifesto? Could get very interesting then!
If that happened, then look to see UKIP .win 30% or so.
... and come second in lots of places, maybe win 10MPs.
in ordinary circumstances, they wouldn't. But if a general election were fought on the basis of Conservatives, Labour, and Lib Dems all opposing the Referendum outcome, those would not be ordinary circumstances.
May and Boris fight the leadership on an in/out ticket
May wins, tells Brussels we are staying. Osborne as chancellor. "Punishment" budget in the Autumn to start clearing up the mess
Osborne surely can't be chancellor after the leadership election. May would be sensible to get rid of him, or put him out to pasture at the Foreign Office.
wishing (as people like Scott clearly do) that things will all go horribly wrong.
Not at all. Things are going just as the Brexiters wanted. I have never had so much "control". Should have taken it back years ago.
Spoke to my old boss last night who just bought a new car. Paid for it in dollars, so the price has fallen 10% in 4 days.
Cheers!
Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, JLR, McLaren and others will be happy. Their cars just got cheaper in their key markets of the USA, China and the Middle East.
May and Boris fight the leadership on an in/out ticket
May wins, tells Brussels we are staying. Osborne as chancellor. "Punishment" budget in the Autumn to start clearing up the mess
What on earth makes you think that the majority of Tory members would support a remainer over a Leaver if the remainer was not undertaking to respect the vote?
May and Boris fight the leadership on an in/out ticket
May wins, tells Brussels we are staying. Osborne as chancellor. "Punishment" budget in the Autumn to start clearing up the mess
Osborne surely can't be chancellor after the leadership election. May would be sensible to get rid of him, or put him out to pasture at the Foreign Office.
Osborne can't be trusted at the FO - it'd need to be somewhere where he couldn't do harm, and he wouldn't accept such a demotion. An ambassador somewhere?
May and Boris fight the leadership on an in/out ticket
May wins, tells Brussels we are staying. Osborne as chancellor. "Punishment" budget in the Autumn to start clearing up the mess
Osborne surely can't be chancellor after the leadership election. May would be sensible to get rid of him, or put him out to pasture at the Foreign Office.
Osborne can't be trusted at the FO - it'd need to be somewhere where he couldn't do harm, and he wouldn't accept such a demotion. An ambassador somewhere?
Mr. Fenster, I do wonder if Merkel regrets backing Juncker.
She must do.
All the allegations of drinking, schmoozing and snipes about his health haven't helped the EU's image.
He behaved in EU set-pieces like the Lord of the Manor, all that back-slapping and being so pleased with himself. He seemed to enjoy being the arch-villain of Eurosceptic Britain.
A change in his body language alone might have prevented Brexit.
Perhaps he's misunderstood us as much as we misunderstand him.
What on earth makes you think that the majority of Tory members would support a remainer over a Leaver if the remainer was not undertaking to respect the vote?
Because they are not all as economically insane as the true believers.
In my opinion, Boris lost all right to take over once it was clear he had no earthly idea what to do next. Same goes for most of the other Leavers. Now that we're in this mess, there are probably two alternatives - either go for the safest pair of hands you can think of, which must be May, or go for the most nationally uniting ticket, which would be Crabb and Javid. I honestly hope the Tories go for the latter, though I don't really think they will.
It also occurs to me that this is such a frenzied time because there are a lot of, at least perceived, last chances. This is probably the last chance to come up with a solution that will save the UK as a country for the next 10 years; the last chance for Labour to get rid of Corbyn before he leads them to disaster; maybe the last chance for the EU to save itself before collapsing under the weight of unbalanced economies and continent-wide unpopularity.
With so much being at stake, can there be any justification (other than watching him fail) to putting Boris in charge?
Who says Boris doesn't have a clear idea of what to do next?
You may say that because you don't like him, but until Cameron/Osborne step aside and allow new potential leaders to make their spiels, it remains very much in the existing leadership to handle the situation.
Shame Cameron never considered the possibility of losing, and failed to put a contingency plan in place.
Boris is a self-serving clown who clearly did not want to win the referendum. He should not be anywhere near the corridors of power. It's May or bust for the UK. If it comes down to a straight fight between May and Corbyn she will win easily even if it's on a EU-lite ticket.
My favourite huffy teenager behaviour from the EU is the intention to throw English out as an official language. I wonder what they'll use instead - or expect Ireland to say about that?!
So speaks someone completely immune to any negative consequences of Brexit.
Maybe not when the budget comes - as it will - which raises taxes and cuts spending. I think pensions should be first in line to pay their fair share of the Brexit 'premium'
In my opinion, Boris lost all right to take over once it was clear he had no earthly idea what to do next. Same goes for most of the other Leavers. Now that we're in this mess, there are probably two alternatives - either go for the safest pair of hands you can think of, which must be May, or go for the most nationally uniting ticket, which would be Crabb and Javid. I honestly hope the Tories go for the latter, though I don't really think they will.
It also occurs to me that this is such a frenzied time because there are a lot of, at least perceived, last chances. This is probably the last chance to come up with a solution that will save the UK as a country for the next 10 years; the last chance for Labour to get rid of Corbyn before he leads them to disaster; maybe the last chance for the EU to save itself before collapsing under the weight of unbalanced economies and continent-wide unpopularity.
With so much being at stake, can there be any justification (other than watching him fail) to putting Boris in charge?
Who says Boris doesn't have a clear idea of what to do next?
You may say that because you don't like him, but until Cameron/Osborne step aside and allow new potential leaders to make their spiels, it remains very much in the existing leadership to handle the situation.
Shame Cameron never considered the possibility of losing, and failed to put a contingency plan in place.
Boris is a self-serving clown who clearly did not want to win the referendum. He should not be anywhere near the corridors of power. It's May or bust for the UK. If it comes down to a straight fight between May and Corbyn she will win easily even if it's on a EU-lite ticket.
Yeah, I think she could even gain seats at a snap election, although it will depend on what her position is on the renegotiation.
Quite. Make them all line up facing each other two swords' lengths apart!
There's something so sterile about the EU Parly layout. The sort of thing Catbert would've come up with.
Apparently something of the sort was suggested for the British House of Commons when it was rebuilt after being bombed in WWII, but Churchill wouldn’t hear of it.
For self-proclaimed ‘progressives’, what a bunch of doom-mongering, curtain-twitching, tut-tutting stick-in-the-muds they’ve proved to be! For this Remnant Zombie Army, out to do in our brains with their bed-wetting ways and bleats for more referenda until they get the result they want, everything that goes wrong over the next few months – the weather, the football – will be Brexit’s fault. And yes, it will be irksome at a time when this country needs to put its best foot forward and proceed with the merry dance of freedom. But I’m not worried that they’ll do us much harm in the long run – because, basically, they’re such a bunch of ponces.
anyone who voted remain should watch that Juncker speech to realise what dangerous ideals they have been supporting. The guy is unelected, nuts and taking Europe in a dangerous direction.
Pound UP from its low of 1.31 against dollar to 1.33.
Yep, stocks and currencies looking like a sea of green in early trading, although short of regaining yesterday's losses. At least it's moving in the right direction, and while there will be volatility ahead it's not close to the doom-laden prophecies of some during the campaign.
While either side is going to hail every movement of the currency and the FTSe as evidence to support their point of view the reality is that it is going to take months if not years to know the true economic consequences of Brexit.
The socialists and european left getting very tetchy.
It'd be really useful if we had a neutral insiders view of what's going on over there. Right now it seems to be a mix of wish-we'd-do-it-too and how-very-dare-you.
What on earth makes you think that the majority of Tory members would support a remainer over a Leaver if the remainer was not undertaking to respect the vote?
Because they are not all as economically insane as the true believers.
Indeed. Anyone who can make a case that they are the stability ticket will win a GE easily. May looks and acts like that person even if she is never going to win many points for charisma. The UK just needs a steady pair of hands at the tiller and a 60-year-old woman with bags of experience will appeal over a testosterone-fuelled bone idle turncoat who betrayed his own country, party and former mayoral territory.
Morning all. As a Conservative member and Vote Leave supporter I have no particular requirement for the next Prime Minister to be a Brexit supporter. My only requirement and expectation here is that the new PM invokes Article 50 and fulfils the will of the British people asap and prior to any further General Election or second referendum. Keep delaying things will undermine public trust and further de-stabilise the markets.
In terms of alternative options, my preference has always been a bespoke UK deal. My main priorities are to enhance UK sovereignty and democracy, gain the ability to set-up our own trade deals and to be able to more effectively control immigration bringing it under UK democratic governance.
Can someone who favours EFTA/EEA please inform me how, if at all, this membership option meets these requirements? I can see benefits compared to EU membership, but I know many colleagues who think it is worse than EU membership. I also wonder if it could be a transition model, which we may, if we want leave eventually if our trade with Europe declines further?
EFTA/EEA will give you all those things with the exception of immigration control. So it depends on how important that issue is to you.
Do you think EFTA/EEA would give us more flexibility to reduce the pull factors that made us a disproportionate pull?
The irony is we could reduce those pull factors today if we wanted by reforming our non-contributory benefits system. Nothing to do with the EU at all.
I feel like people here are still fighting yesterday's battles. We've voted to leave and leave we will. Dave was unequivocal about it yesterday, no second referendum and his successor would have to invoke Article 50.
On why I would vote for May over Boris.
Let's cast our minds back to February and imagine a different scenario than what too place. In this one the PM comes back and says, "The EU has not delivered on any of its promises to reform, I don't see how we can now stay in the bloc and will recommend to the British people that our future now lies outside the EU". In that scenario is there a single person who believes that Boris wouldn't have been head of the Remain campaign?
What on earth makes you think that the majority of Tory members would support a remainer over a Leaver if the remainer was not undertaking to respect the vote?
Because they are not all as economically insane as the true believers.
Indeed. Anyone who can make a case that they are the stability ticket will win a GE easily. May looks and acts like that person even if she is never going to win many points for charisma. The UK just needs a steady pair of hands at the tiller and a 60-year-old woman with bags of experience will appeal over a testosterone-fuelled bone idle turncoat who betrayed his own country, party and former mayoral territory.
Can we take it you’re NOT a member of BoJo’s faan club, then?
What on earth makes you think that the majority of Tory members would support a remainer over a Leaver if the remainer was not undertaking to respect the vote?
Because they are not all as economically insane as the true believers.
Indeed. Anyone who can make a case that they are the stability ticket will win a GE easily. May looks and acts like that person even if she is never going to win many points for charisma. The UK just needs a steady pair of hands at the tiller and a 60-year-old woman with bags of experience will appeal over a testosterone-fuelled bone idle turncoat who betrayed his own country, party and former mayoral territory.
The gnashing of the teeth of lefties will be audible across the Atlantic when the Tories elect their second female leader.....
What on earth makes you think that the majority of Tory members would support a remainer over a Leaver if the remainer was not undertaking to respect the vote?
Because they are not all as economically insane as the true believers.
Indeed. Anyone who can make a case that they are the stability ticket will win a GE easily. May looks and acts like that person even if she is never going to win many points for charisma. The UK just needs a steady pair of hands at the tiller and a 60-year-old woman with bags of experience will appeal over a testosterone-fuelled bone idle turncoat who betrayed his own country, party and former mayoral territory.
Can we take it you’re NOT a member of BoJo’s faan club, then?
It's the one thing that unites PB - in, out, left, right.
Following the European Leaders debate on Guardian live – nothing of substance has been reported over the past half hour other than some very odd comments by Juckers.
Where are we on Labour? Seems rather quieter this morning. Is the no confidence vote today?
Apparently someone called Andy Slaughter resigned as shadow justice minister half an hour ago. Guido is keeping a running total (if his site stays up, it was down earlier!).
Morning all. As a Conservative member and Vote Leave supporter I have no particular requirement for the next Prime Minister to be a Brexit supporter. My only requirement and expectation here is that the new PM invokes Article 50 and fulfils the will of the British people asap and prior to any further General Election or second referendum. Keep delaying things will undermine public trust and further de-stabilise the markets.
In terms of alternative options, my preference has always been a bespoke UK deal. My main priorities are to enhance UK sovereignty and democracy, gain the ability to set-up our own trade deals and to be able to more effectively control immigration bringing it under UK democratic governance.
Can someone who favours EFTA/EEA please inform me how, if at all, this membership option meets these requirements? I can see benefits compared to EU membership, but I know many colleagues who think it is worse than EU membership. I also wonder if it could be a transition model, which we may, if we want leave eventually if our trade with Europe declines further?
EFTA/EEA will give you all those things with the exception of immigration control. So it depends on how important that issue is to you.
Do you think EFTA/EEA would give us more flexibility to reduce the pull factors that made us a disproportionate pull?
The irony is we could reduce those pull factors today if we wanted by reforming our non-contributory benefits system. Nothing to do with the EU at all.
Absolutely right, we could have fixed benefits abuse by migrants within the EU. It just needed a few yeara of hard headed thinking and action from the government. We need to make these reforms anyway, our welfare bill is far too large and we pay benefits to too many people who arw already in work.
A lot of the tales of racism and abuse we've heard since the weekend don't have the ring of truth. I suspect a large majority of them are inventions.
snip
"Please read and share:
Right, this isn't about the EU. This is about pure hatred and in all honesty I'm getting sick of it.
Last night I couldn't be arsed cooking so decided to order a burger in. The guy that delivered it was Romanian. When he went to pass me the food I noticed something on his jacket. I said to him 'You've got a stain or something on your jacket there mate'. He said 'I know, I'm sorry, I haven't had time to wash it off, it's egg, it was the person on my last delivery'. I asked him what he meant and he went on to tell me that after his last delivery, the person had gone on a rant telling him 'we voted leave, why are you still here?' In short.
Then, after he collected the money (without a tip, obviously) he was walking away from the house when the man shouted him back. As he walked back, the man and his wife threw two eggs at him, both of which hit him, before shouting 'fuck off home, polish scum' (bearing in mind he is Romanian).
As he told me the story, he genuinely had a tear in his eye. He finished by saying 'but I still love England, my friend'. I asked him how much he made an hour, he told me £4 plus 50p for every delivery made. I gave a £10 tip and finished by apologised to him for the behaviour of people in this country. He grabbed my hand, gave me a quick hug and said 'I'll never forget this, thank you friend'.
It's easy to disregard posts like this on Facebook until you experience it yourself first hand. There are plenty of similar posts all around the Internet, which suggests this situation is only getting worse.
Please share the love, eliminate the hate and stand up to evil, not in the way of good."
That's made me . That's so faux.
Your posts and tone are becoming more and more objectionable, I'm afraid. This "faux hostility" you're imagining is real, and has consequences for millions of people.
Do you honestly think that Plato cares about that?
Awww. You've already claimed this morning to know that I won't be personally effected by Brexit. Your crystal ball is a remarkable device. How disappointing for you that the stock market isn't falling this morning - you posted oodles of tweets yesterday and appeared to be perversely enjoying it.
Take the mote from your own eye.
One might have thought you would at least understand the concept of the 'dead cat bounce'. Have you joined 'Britain first' yet?
May and Boris fight the leadership on an in/out ticket
May wins, tells Brussels we are staying. Osborne as chancellor. "Punishment" budget in the Autumn to start clearing up the mess
Osborne surely can't be chancellor after the leadership election. May would be sensible to get rid of him, or put him out to pasture at the Foreign Office.
Osborne can't be trusted at the FO - it'd need to be somewhere where he couldn't do harm, and he wouldn't accept such a demotion. An ambassador somewhere?
Agreed and I am concerned about the rumours on FO job, since having a rabid europhile who only pursues his own interest, is someone that should not be in any Government.
What on earth makes you think that the majority of Tory members would support a remainer over a Leaver if the remainer was not undertaking to respect the vote?
Because they are not all as economically insane as the true believers.
Indeed. Anyone who can make a case that they are the stability ticket will win a GE easily. May looks and acts like that person even if she is never going to win many points for charisma. The UK just needs a steady pair of hands at the tiller and a 60-year-old woman with bags of experience will appeal over a testosterone-fuelled bone idle turncoat who betrayed his own country, party and former mayoral territory.
The gnashing of the teeth of lefties will be audible across the Atlantic when the Tories elect their second female leader.....
Absolutely. The Hattie Harmans of this world will go ballistic that another right-wing woman got the top job while the lefties stick with their weird old man out of the 1970s.
Just completed a YouGov poll with most of the questions on the Tories and the leadership. Just loving ticking the box expressing max dissatisfaction for Johnson and Gove. And for TSE, I 'voted' for May as next leader....a day is a long time in politics down 'Ersham way.
by the time we leave, in say 2019, probably 5% of Leave voters will be dead. Far fewer Remain voters will have died as they are younger.
Meanwhile, more young Remainers will be on the register and a few Leavers will still have have buyer's remorse.
Consequently, there may be no popular mandate for Exit by the time we, er, exit.
So, there probably has to be another plebiscite to ratify the terms on which we become an Associate Member, Semi-Detached Member, Non-Member or whatever.
His name wasn't George by any chance? There are assumptions in every one of those trends which may or may not be vindicated, a bit like the growth projections during the campaign. A more likely scenario is that a significant part of the Remain support will accept the decision in better grace than most of our media is showing and move on.
We've voted for this move with fewer checks and balances than if I delete a file from my hard disk and send it to the recycling bin after being asked: are you sure?
Parliamentary elections can be reversed 4-5 years later; constitutional upsets like this can't
Just completed a YouGov poll with most of the questions on the Tories and the leadership. Just loving ticking the box expressing max dissatisfaction for Johnson and Gove. And for TSE, I 'voted' for May as next leader....a day is a long time in politics down 'Ersham way.
Morning all. As a Conservative member and Vote Leave supporter I have no particular requirement for the next Prime Minister to be a Brexit supporter. My only requirement and expectation here is that the new PM invokes Article 50 and fulfils the will of the British people asap and prior to any further General Election or second referendum. Keep delaying things will undermine public trust and further de-stabilise the markets.
In terms of alternative options, my preference has always been a bespoke UK deal. My main priorities are to enhance UK sovereignty and democracy, gain the ability to set-up our own trade deals and to be able to more effectively control immigration bringing it under UK democratic governance.
Can someone who favours EFTA/EEA please inform me how, if at all, this membership option meets these requirements? I can see benefits compared to EU membership, but I know many colleagues who think it is worse than EU membership. I also wonder if it could be a transition model, which we may, if we want leave eventually if our trade with Europe declines further?
Pragmatically, I cannot see any good alternative to EEA/EFTA at this moment in time. We have two years once Article 50 is invoked. This is not a long time to get alternative trade deals in place. Indeed, it looks like a near impossibility and we would not be negotiating from a position of strength.
The EUs likelihood to budge on anything like the four freedoms at this moment in time looks incredibly slim.
So we are either stuck at the end of two years reverting to WTO rules, with a very slim likelihood of any free trade deals of importance in place (which is very much a nuclear option) or we go for the quick-fix option of retaining access to the single market and free movement, with the benefit of being able to pursue our own trade deals in the meantime.
I think it is inconceivable we'll plump for anything else. The difference between leaders will be maybe how it is sold. Some might stress it as a more temporary solution than others.
Mr Farage will, of course, have a field day.
What you seem to be looking at is a Norway-style arrangement. Fraragists will indeed dislike it.
EEA/EFTA is the least worst alternative - but it leaves the situation on the ground largely unchanged albeit with the U.K having far less influence than it did when in the EU. So what was the point of all this? Just to rattle the hearts of a few xenophobic Red BNP types who won't get what they want anyway.
If we get EEA/EFTA wouldnt the ultimate irony be that we get free movement of Turks because we lost our ability to veto it by coming out of the EU!
Comments
Who says Boris doesn't have a clear idea of what to do next?
You may say that because you don't like him, but until Cameron/Osborne step aside and allow new potential leaders to make their spiels, it remains very much in the existing leadership to handle the situation.
Shame Cameron never considered the possibility of losing, and failed to put a contingency plan in place.
No wonder the EU is in a mess.
My main concern, as a regular traveller to Thailand, is that the £ has slid about 10% against the Baht.
That's really funny. You should give up your day job
Spoke to my old boss last night who just bought a new car. Paid for it in dollars, so the price has fallen 10% in 4 days.
Cheers!
May and Boris fight the leadership on an in/out ticket
May wins, tells Brussels we are staying. Osborne as chancellor. "Punishment" budget in the Autumn to start clearing up the mess
Man under pressure regardless of Brexit?
He is a singularly unimpressive individual. Very easy to dislike.
Perhaps something is lost in translation.
http://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/why-ireland-is-demanding-package-from-eu-to-beat-brexit-fallout-34838906.html
And you buy a car in dollars if you have lots of dollars sitting in an account and want to buy a car
Now, who is the best man for the job?
Well, quite...
Er, Boris won.
All the allegations of drinking, schmoozing and snipes about his health haven't helped the EU's image.
He behaved in EU set-pieces like the Lord of the Manor, all that back-slapping and being so pleased with himself. He seemed to enjoy being the arch-villain of Eurosceptic Britain.
A change in his body language alone might have prevented Brexit.
Perhaps he's misunderstood us as much as we misunderstand him.
She is the "safe pair of hands" ticket
The bus will be his political epitaph
There's something so sterile about the EU Parly layout. The sort of thing Catbert would've come up with.
How is this possible ?!!
All the Remainers were confidently claiming that Brexit would cause the worst stock market crash in the history of civilisation.
In a few weeks people will be begging for "in"
Boris won two elections for Mayor in Labour-leaning London, and now a popular referendum that everyone expected him to lose.
It's a bit early to write him off.
Buyers' remorse Cons members = not so sure
They are loving the freedom and control of their friends telling them their US Equities balanced portfolio has off-set their FTSE losses.
On why I would vote for May over Boris.
Let's cast our minds back to February and imagine a different scenario than what too place. In this one the PM comes back and says, "The EU has not delivered on any of its promises to reform, I don't see how we can now stay in the bloc and will recommend to the British people that our future now lies outside the EU". In that scenario is there a single person who believes that Boris wouldn't have been head of the Remain campaign?
Knocked out of the Euros by Iceland, knocked out of the EU by people who shop at Iceland
Following the European Leaders debate on Guardian live – nothing of substance has been reported over the past half hour other than some very odd comments by Juckers.
Was that it?
It's not just us then.
Have you joined 'Britain first' yet?
We've voted for this move with fewer checks and balances than if I delete a file from my hard disk and send it to the recycling bin after being asked: are you sure?
Parliamentary elections can be reversed 4-5 years later; constitutional upsets like this can't
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36625209
By contrast the 1975 referendum was passed by 67/33%, which was clearly enough to be legitimate. (I voted at the time to Leave.)
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