As Remain didn't win, how their promises turn out is rather more academic than the cheaper energy, booming economy and queue-free double-staffed NHS that I am now waiting for from the leavers....
It wasn't a commentary on remain or leave precisely, it was a commentary on people 'realising' things in their campaigns were wrong to do after they were or were not effective.
On topic, Corbyn will survive, even shadow cab members off the record were saying better for him to lose in a GE rather than something like this, which surely means they don't have the votes.
UKIP are a conundrum. Effective and ineffective at the same time.
UKIP are a transmission belt. Quite capable of shaking up the system in a big way, even if incapable of taking power.
An early election would see UKIP relying on the notion of "go on then, show some gratitude for getting us out the EU, you buggers". Their prospectus would otherwise be - what exactly? They have about as much to offer now as the Referendum Party.
A UKIP by 2020 will have lost its funding, lost its MEP's, may well have seen Farage retire or at least ennobled (ugh!). I suggest the party itself will still be seen as the retirement home for grumpy middle-aged white men. It desperately needs to attract a wider profile. But if you are interested in a career in politics, what young SPAD wannabe is going to join UKIP to get ahead?
It's possible there could be a Westminster by-election in a strongly Leave seat, that allows Farage yet another opportunity to get to the House of Commons. But let's face it, Leave won in spite of his ego-driven antics, not because of them. Even within Leave, there were many who would have happily sent him to St. Kilda to count seabirds for a couple of months. He was reviled by Remain voters - and their determination to keep him out of power will have no doubt been redoubled by the result. UKIP quickly needs a new face if it is to hang around.
It probably needs a rebranding exercise too. We will be independent from the EU by 2020. What else do they want us to be independent from next for heavens sake? And the UK may well be a reduced, disunited kingdom
Independence from globalisation. Which is going nowhere.
But let's face it, Leave won in spite of his ego-driven antics, not because of them. Even within Leave, there were many who would have happily sent him to St. Kilda to count seabirds for a couple of months. He was reviled by Remain voters - and their determination to keep him out of power will have no doubt been redoubled by the result. UKIP quickly needs a new face if it is to hang around.
I think this is supposition. Leave won because thousands of previous non voters in the North got off their sofas and went to vote for the first time. I dont think we yet have any idea why they did so, its is however as likely to be due to Farage's message is it was to Hannan's.
Erm Scott, its over. Dave is going. Leave and Remain are sending back the rented furniture from their rented offices. Not sure CCHQ are going to appreciate you continuing to snipe at what is left of the party.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
But they had no product to sell. "Look, come buy my shiny new...er...bugger..." So how else were they going to use their great intellects to fill two months, if not with snarky name-calling and nur-nur na nur-nur campaigning?
The tone of the Remainers was hideously wrong throughout. And shows no sign of changing even after the result.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
But let's face it, Leave won in spite of his ego-driven antics, not because of them. Even within Leave, there were many who would have happily sent him to St. Kilda to count seabirds for a couple of months. He was reviled by Remain voters - and their determination to keep him out of power will have no doubt been redoubled by the result. UKIP quickly needs a new face if it is to hang around.
I think this is supposition. Leave won because thousands of previous non voters in the North got off their sofas and went to vote for the first time. I dont think we yet have any idea why they did so, its is however as likely to be due to Farage's message is it was to Hannan's.
Fairly sure we do have a good idea why...and its nothing to do with Hannan.
But let's face it, Leave won in spite of his ego-driven antics, not because of them. Even within Leave, there were many who would have happily sent him to St. Kilda to count seabirds for a couple of months. He was reviled by Remain voters - and their determination to keep him out of power will have no doubt been redoubled by the result. UKIP quickly needs a new face if it is to hang around.
I think this is supposition. Leave won because thousands of previous non voters in the North got off their sofas and went to vote for the first time. I dont think we yet have any idea why they did so, its is however as likely to be due to Farage's message is it was to Hannan's.
And I think just as many would have voted Remain rather than sit on their hands, because of the very campaign he ran. Leave got the boost because of Boris and because of Gove. A campaign fronted by Farage alone for two months would have probably seen me abstaining.
Its a truism that Nigel divides opinion, even his many detractors have to accept that he has incredible energy and determination. Those of us that have fought campaigns (I don't mean delivering leaflets in safe seats) know how draining and exhausting they are, Nigel has had any number of knock backs over 25 years, never underestimate his strength of character.
He has probably hit the glass ceiling at 4m votes, the big question is can anybody else match, let alone exceed that? There are any number of very capable people within Ukip and now we are out of the EU the message has to change.
My own view is that Nigel can and will stand down with his head held high, the leadership election will dictate which direction the party moves in. Suzanne Evans is first class but my choice would be Stephen Woolfe, a very measured man from a tough part of Manchester, his approach would be entirely different to Nigel's, fascinating to see the outcome.
Those that are rejecting the will of the people should contemplate this piece.....
"Few seem willing to accept that people simply passed a rational, considered judgment on the EU. Ordinary people, who might not have PhDs or read the Guardian or know absolutely everything about how the EU works (but then, who does?), have decided they don’t want to be tied to Brussels. That’s it. We shouldn’t twist this, or demonise it, or delegitimise it by saying it’s a coded expression of hatred or confusion, for that is to demean democracy. The people were asked a simple question, and they gave a stirring answer."
You may well dislike that answer but the one unassailable fact is the people decided and while doing so rubbed the establishments nose in democracy. That is why Remain (and Rump EU for that matter) are in so much shock. Their elitist attitudes of "we always know what's best for you" bypassed if not ignored entirely the very people they needed to have on board. It's a shame because Remain had an important message to send. By simply treating people as idiots and abusing those with an alternative view as racists "TysonTirades" always wins few hearts and even less votes at the ballot box.
We are now in a Kübler-Ross model where Remainers are somewhere between denial and anger. They really only have themselves and the campaign of " project Sneer" to blame. They brought "this mess" as they like to describe it entirely on themselves.
I accept the will of the people even though it is the will of just over half the people and geographically limited.
Can you build a party around being anti political correctness, anti foreign aid, anti immigration, pro smoking,.... OK struggling to think of more.
TBH without the EU as the central plank, they just seem like a libertarian BNP lite
Why would that not attract millions? The Referendum showed us that there are two kinds of English and Welsh: graduates and racists. Just because only one of those posts here doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Not as funny as seeing Remainers - a campaign based on Project Fear and fuck all else - claiming they lost because of intimidated pensioners and the terminally stupid.
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
Not sure CCHQ are going to appreciate you continuing to snipe at what is left of the party.
Why on Earth would I care what CCHQ think?
Actually good point Mr Scott.
You don't care what the democratic majority in this country think so why would you even care about what a handful of office wallah's in a London basement think.
Can you build a party around being anti political correctness, anti foreign aid, anti immigration, pro smoking,.... OK struggling to think of more.
TBH without the EU as the central plank, they just seem like a libertarian BNP lite
Why would that not attract millions? The Referendum showed us that there are two kinds of English and Welsh: graduates and racists. Just because only one of those posts here doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.
Can you build a party around being anti political correctness, anti foreign aid, anti immigration, pro smoking,.... OK struggling to think of more.
TBH without the EU as the central plank, they just seem like a libertarian BNP lite
Why would that not attract millions? The Referendum showed us that there are two kinds of English and Welsh: graduates and racists. Just because only one of those posts here doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.
Rubbish. The EU is a lightning rod single issue, at elections people spread their votes out more depending on the whole platform.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Not as funny as seeing Remainers - a campaign based on Project Fear and fuck all else - claiming they lost because of intimidated pensioners and the terminally stupid.
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
The UK will be no more.
Isn't that more what you hope for, rather than what you expect?
For Scots, I think a little patience might be instructive. The chances are that the negotiation process might turn out to be very positive for Scotland.
The first thing to consider would be that the vote was very close. That means that Parliament will feel less inclined to agree to any solution outside the single market in the short term. Vote Leave and its agenda is dead, at least if the Tories want any chance in 2020
Then potentially Scotland gets great control over one of its largest resources, the North Sea. It gets policy flexibility.
Add to that, the possibility of greater devolution because fewer legislative instruments will be passed directly from Brussels via Westminster. Certain competencies such as environment will eventually totally return to the UK, and can be devolved. Scotland could find itself more independent in a post Brexit UK than a post UK EU.
I think the Tories need to get on with this leadership contest. As much as I think it's funny to hear the EU getting upset with us, I think we should have a new PM within a month. This is no longer about selecting a new leader of the Tory Party to fight the 2020 election. This is about selecting our next PM who will negotiate our exit from the EU.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Not as funny as seeing Remainers - a campaign based on Project Fear and fuck all else - claiming they lost because of intimidated pensioners and the terminally stupid.
And is "idiot bigot" the new W-A-Y-C-I-S-T?
Pensioners weren't intimidated. They just don't like immigrants. You tell me if that defines them as racist? I'd say it was a huge motivation and the prime reason Leave won. You may not agree.
As I've told you before writing waycist doesn't magically make everyone who points out bigotry wrong.. Fortunately it's still so side splittingly funny that doesn't matter though.
I think the Tories need to get on with this leadership contest. As much as I think it's funny to hear the EU getting upset with us, I think we should have a new PM within a month. This is no longer about selecting a new leader of the Tory Party to fight the 2020 election. This is about selecting our next PM who will negotiate our exit from the EU.
Agreed. There is so much that needs to be done and Cameron is not in the position to do it.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Not as funny as seeing Remainers - a campaign based on Project Fear and fuck all else - claiming they lost because of intimidated pensioners and the terminally stupid.
And is "idiot bigot" the new W-A-Y-C-I-S-T?
Pensioners weren't intimidated. They just don't like immigrants. You tell me if that defines them as racist? I'd say it was a huge motivation and the prime reason Leave won. You may not agree.
As I've told you before writing waycist doesn't magically make everyone who points out bigotry wrong.. Fortunately it's still so side splittingly funny that doesn't matter though.
That's it, you keep telling people. Way to go to win an argument....
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
The UK will be no more.
Isn't that more what you hope for, rather than what you expect?
Why do people on PB attribute motives to other posters rather than addressing the points made? Baffling.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Not as funny as seeing Remainers - a campaign based on Project Fear and fuck all else - claiming they lost because of intimidated pensioners and the terminally stupid.
And is "idiot bigot" the new W-A-Y-C-I-S-T?
As I've told you before writing waycist doesn't magically make everyone who points out bigotry wrong.. Fortunately it's still so side splittingly funny that doesn't matter though.
Asserting that someone you disagree with has bad motives, doesn't magically make your assertion true.
The Ashcroft poll bears out other findings, that it's when people reach their late thirties/early forties, that they move from supporting to opposing the EU. That's an age cohort that is just as familiar with studying/working/travelling abroad, and mixing with people of other races, as the 18-24 year olds are who hugely supported Remain.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Not as funny as seeing Remainers - a campaign based on Project Fear and fuck all else - claiming they lost because of intimidated pensioners and the terminally stupid.
And is "idiot bigot" the new W-A-Y-C-I-S-T?
Pensioners weren't intimidated. They just don't like immigrants. You tell me if that defines them as racist? I'd say it was a huge motivation and the prime reason Leave won. You may not agree.
As I've told you before writing waycist doesn't magically make everyone who points out bigotry wrong.. Fortunately it's still so side splittingly funny that doesn't matter though.
That's it, you keep telling people. Way to go to win an argument....
Pensioners remember last time. They remember what Tony Benn told them. And that he turned out to be absolutely correct. Fool me once...
Those that are rejecting the will of the people should contemplate this piece.....
"Few seem willing to accept that people simply passed a rational, considered judgment on the EU. Ordinary people, who might not have PhDs or read the Guardian or know absolutely everything about how the EU works (but then, who does?), have decided they don’t want to be tied to Brussels. That’s it. We shouldn’t twist this, or demonise it, or delegitimise it by saying it’s a coded expression of hatred or confusion, for that is to demean democracy. The people were asked a simple question, and they gave a stirring answer."
You may well dislike that answer but the one unassailable fact is the people decided and while doing so rubbed the establishments nose in democracy. That is why Remain (and Rump EU for that matter) are in so much shock. Their elitist attitudes of "we always know what's best for you" bypassed if not ignored entirely the very people they needed to have on board. It's a shame because Remain had an important message to send. By simply treating people as idiots and abusing those with an alternative view as racists "TysonTirades" always wins few hearts and even less votes at the ballot box.
We are now in a Kübler-Ross model where Remainers are somewhere between denial and anger. They really only have themselves and the campaign of " project Sneer" to blame. They brought "this mess" as they like to describe it entirely on themselves.
I accept the will of the people even though it is the will of just over half the people and geographically limited.
The question was yes or no it was not a GE.
For you "Just over half the people" ( 2million in real numbers) is not a majority then? Geographically limited ....huh?
Either way thanks for clearing that up and your general attitude to our democracy and the will of the British people. The people obviously made the right choice based on that cavalier attitude to their views by you and other Remainers and indeed for 40 years by the European project.
For me, had the remain vote been 50% and then plus one single person then that's a majority and the will of the people . As much as I would have preferred the opposite result I advocated many times on here if that occurs we should embrace the EU fully, join Schengen and adopt the euro
The difference between you and me and also many Remainers is I respect the democratic process.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Not as funny as seeing Remainers - a campaign based on Project Fear and fuck all else - claiming they lost because of intimidated pensioners and the terminally stupid.
And is "idiot bigot" the new W-A-Y-C-I-S-T?
Pensioners weren't intimidated. They just don't like immigrants. You tell me if that defines them as racist? I'd say it was a huge motivation and the prime reason Leave won. You may not agree.
As I've told you before writing waycist doesn't magically make everyone who points out bigotry wrong.. Fortunately it's still so side splittingly funny that doesn't matter though.
That's it, you keep telling people. Way to go to win an argument....
OGH can either have free speech or civilised behaviour in these comments columns. Human nature means that neither he nor anyone else can have both.
I hope the rumours about Corbyn going this morning are true. We're in a once in a century flux. He's utterly incapable of fronting the attempt to make this a Lexit.
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
The UK will be no more.
Isn't that more what you hope for, rather than what you expect?
Why do people on PB attribute motives to other posters rather than addressing the points made? Baffling.
When one reads endless gleeful predictions of the horrors in store for us, it seems a fair response.
I hope the rumours about Corbyn going this morning are true. We're in a once in a century flux. He's utterly incapable of fronting the attempt to make this a Lexit.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
But they had no product to sell. "Look, come buy my shiny new...er...bugger..." So how else were they going to use their great intellects to fill two months, if not with snarky name-calling and nur-nur na nur-nur campaigning?
The tone of the Remainers was hideously wrong throughout. And shows no sign of changing even after the result.
Sky's coverage over the last three days has been almost totally negative in tone - and they're still in denial. It's so obvious that their presenters almost all voted Remain. Surprised they aren't wearing black too. Last night's paper review was another *why didn't they agree with us* *how dare they have minds of their own* fest.
I've seen similar clips from the BBC floating around Twitter comparing us directly Trump supporters - and not in a nice way. They really don't get it. Even vox pops are all nice young middle class hipsters saying they voted in, and down at heel oldsters for out. The message is very clear.
I hope the rumours about Corbyn going this morning are true. We're in a once in a century flux. He's utterly incapable of fronting the attempt to make this a Lexit.
I hope the rumours about Corbyn going this morning are true. We're in a once in a century flux. He's utterly incapable of fronting the attempt to make this a Lexit.
I hope he stays.
There seems to be a suggestion of ignoring the Referendum result being touted around the talk shows.
Mr Corbyn is either a luke-warm Remainer, or a Leaver at heart. I don't want him replaced by a true-believer Remain MP.
The Ashcroft poll bears out other findings, that it's when people reach their late thirties/early forties, that they move from supporting to opposing the EU. That's an age cohort that is just as familiar with studying/working/travelling abroad, and mixing with people of other races, as the 18-24 year olds are who hugely supported Remain.
Very much agree with this. Yes the older voters were important, but enough 30-40 somethings voted to leave too.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Not as funny as seeing Remainers - a campaign based on Project Fear and fuck all else - claiming they lost because of intimidated pensioners and the terminally stupid.
And is "idiot bigot" the new W-A-Y-C-I-S-T?
Pensioners weren't intimidated. They just don't like immigrants. You tell me if that defines them as racist? I'd say it was a huge motivation and the prime reason Leave won. You may not agree.
As I've told you before writing waycist doesn't magically make everyone who points out bigotry wrong.. Fortunately it's still so side splittingly funny that doesn't matter though.
It wasn't just the pensioners, though. It was people in their forties who (narrowly) favoured Leave. People who are every bit as cosmopolitan as the youngest age cohort.
That suggests to me that there is something about growing older that moves one towards conservative (small c) political positions.
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
The UK will be no more.
Isn't that more what you hope for, rather than what you expect?
I thought a Leave vote would enable Britain to be great again, and independent of EU diktats. However, I am now convinced that the results in Scotland and the six counties will mean the end of the United Kingdom of GB & NI as a political entity. Little England will be a minor state - the clock has been put back to before the 1st Elizabethan era, with Wales as its last colony.
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
Ratings agencies seemed to be happy to give triple A grades to buckets of excrement prior to 2008, not sure how seriously they should be taken these days.
Given the impact they have on market sentiment and the likelihood of this pushing up our borrowing costs, I'd say "very"
Well....You really should have made that point more strongly during the debates if you truly feel that way. You certainly had a message to bring to the table
Instead you took up valuable time by just denouncing any and all opponents of being racist, xenophobic little Englanders. Should have just called them bigots and had done with it.
Maybe leave shouldn't have run a campaign based on pensioners fears and idiots bigotry if they didn't want criticism post referendum. Maybe if you'd spent more time articulating an economic strategy there'd be less buyers remorse and turbulence. Of course you'd have lost had you done that . Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
The UK will be no more.
Isn't that more what you hope for, rather than what you expect?
I thought a Leave vote would enable Britain to be great again, and independent of EU diktats. However, I am now convinced that the results in Scotland and the six counties will mean the end of the United Kingdom of GB & NI as a political entity. Little England will be a minor state - the clock has been put back to before the 1st Elizabethan era, with Wales as its last colony.
One day after the result you're convinced "it will mean the end of the UK"?
Nothing has happened. The SNP are constantly talking about another scottish referendum. This is not new.
The Ashcroft poll also gives Conservatives voting Leave 58/42, and Labour voting 63/37 Remain. My guess is there would be huge variations by class and region in both sets of figures.
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
The UK will be no more.
Isn't that more what you hope for, rather than what you expect?
I thought a Leave vote would enable Britain to be great again, and independent of EU diktats. However, I am now convinced that the results in Scotland and the six counties will mean the end of the United Kingdom of GB & NI as a political entity. Little England will be a minor state - the clock has been put back to before the 1st Elizabethan era, with Wales as its last colony.
The irony is, having had all these arguments about the money we'll save, if we get rid of Scotland and NI, the money we'll save will be much higher than £350m a week.
The Ashcroft poll bears out other findings, that it's when people reach their late thirties/early forties, that they move from supporting to opposing the EU. That's an age cohort that is just as familiar with studying/working/travelling abroad, and mixing with people of other races, as the 18-24 year olds are who hugely supported Remain.
IIRC it's 41yrs when it tips over the line. That's not old.
The age profile for families is interesting - if your kids are under 10, you voted Remain. Over 11 - and you voted Leave.
Is it possible to get the votes cast in the referendum split into postal and polling station on the day.? reckon that assuming 10 million postal votes split 60:40 then on the day at polling stations Remain on the day won 51.6 :48.9.
The Ashcroft poll also gives Conservatives voting Leave 58/42, and Labour voting 63/37 Remain. My guess is there would be huge variations by class and region in both sets of figures.
I think the Tories need to get on with this leadership contest. As much as I think it's funny to hear the EU getting upset with us, I think we should have a new PM within a month. This is no longer about selecting a new leader of the Tory Party to fight the 2020 election. This is about selecting our next PM who will negotiate our exit from the EU.
I agree - many if us are directly affected and we'd like the uncertainty ended asap.
"Mass immigration was obviously a huge influence on the vote. ‘Sovereignty’ was always an abstract, but the visible loss of control of our national borders revealed to millions that it is in fact a tangible thing which affects their lives. Even so, do not underestimate the role played by generalised discontent about everything from absurdly high housing costs, unchecked crime and disorder, the transformation of education into a privilege for the rich and influential, diminishing wages, the impossibility of maintaining standards of living without getting into debt, overloaded health services and miserable opportunities for the young."
"The referendum achieved, by a dangerous short cut, something I have been hoping for and arguing for and seeking for many years – an alliance between the social conservatives trapped and ignored in a liberal Tory Party and the social conservatives trapped in a liberal Labour Party. I had long believed (since the isolated example of a November 2004 referendum on regional government in the North-East) such a combination would throw the ghastly forces of Blairism into the sea."
@MartineBBC: On #BBCPapers, @toadmeister says #Brexit NOT done deal: more likely EU ldrs will offer UK associate membership to be put to 2nd referendum
The boot is on the other foot. I fear Leavers can expect the same good grace Eurosceptics showed this past 20 years. No doubt they want their country back.
@PickardJE: "Farage dismissed half the country as indecent, ruling: 'This is a victory for ordinary people, for decent people.'" https://t.co/1SUqbWQy1R
The EU has played the traditional scapegoat role for right wingers for 20 years. Wonder who or what is going to step into that role when all is not peachy.
@MartineBBC: On #BBCPapers, @toadmeister says #Brexit NOT done deal: more likely EU ldrs will offer UK associate membership to be put to 2nd referendum
No second referendum. The EU leaders will want this ended ASAP.
Another referendum in the UK keeps the EU referendum notion in media across EU member states. Brexit has already pushed referendums into the public debate in Holland and France. Brexit 2 would risk more.
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
The UK will be no more.
Isn't that more what you hope for, rather than what you expect?
I thought a Leave vote would enable Britain to be great again, and independent of EU diktats. However, I am now convinced that the results in Scotland and the six counties will mean the end of the United Kingdom of GB & NI as a political entity. Little England will be a minor state - the clock has been put back to before the 1st Elizabethan era, with Wales as its last colony.
This was utterly predictable and many of us here predicted it.
The EU has played the traditional scapegoat role for right wingers for 20 years. Wonder who or what is going to step into that role when all is not peachy.
If you email a recent photo of yourself to Guido, I'm sure he could mock up a leaflet for you.
Oh dear the chaos continues. -The Mayor of Calais is reconsidering the border controls- saying the French should no longer hold the refugees at Calais. Great stuff- we will move the Jungle to the racist Kent coast. Well Cameron did warn us -The six founding members of EU are meeting to decide to terms of our exit- Britain at the margins, a place we will have to get used to for many years to come. The first summit meeting we have not been invited to since 1975. Excellent- the UK is insignificant and ignored- a place we remember well from our time as the sick man of Europe before joining the EU -Our credit rating has been dropped to negative (on par with Spain)- the worst it has ever been by Moody's- let me remember something, oh yes we were warned about this one too by the Experts -The UK plunged into a constitutional crisis with the rise of Scottish and Irish nationalism- oh yes, didn't Cameron remind us of that one too? -Dominic Grieve saying the country is suffering an economic meltdown- now this is merely a year after we had Osborne's Long Term Economic Plan repeated ad nauseum at the 2015 election -Indian business leaders reviewing long term investment in the UK because of access to single market. The commonwealth argument- why would external investors from our great commonwealth invest in a market that only has access to 60m people?
Many people regretting now the fact that they voted leave- too late now suckers
Still we've taken back control. Right. We've taken back control to be a despised, ignored, insignificant, broken up, poorer little country faced to deal with some of the greatest global challenges- the migrant crisis per instance- alone. It wasn't like we were not warned.
The EU has played the traditional scapegoat role for right wingers for 20 years. Wonder who or what is going to step into that role when all is not peachy.
I hopeful the leaders of the Leave Campaign will be the new scapegoat.
No second referendum. The EU leaders will want this ended ASAP.
Another referendum in the UK keeps the EU referendum notion in media across EU member states. Brexit has already pushed referendums into the public debate in Holland and France. Brexit 2 would risk more.
@PickardJE: "Farage dismissed half the country as indecent, ruling: 'This is a victory for ordinary people, for decent people.'" https://t.co/1SUqbWQy1R
Meanwhile the greater number of people 52.9% (BBC result) are dismissed as bigoted little Englanders.
I think it's good that the old gits saved the naïve and inexperienced from themselves.
When you see a child setting off to cross the road for the first time, it's nice to have parents to pull him back from the edge of the pavement. "No, dear, that's bad for you." They have to learn but you have to do it in small stages.
Just a taste of the Remainers' sneering attitude to anyone who disagrees with them.
No second referendum. The EU leaders will want this ended ASAP.
Another referendum in the UK keeps the EU referendum notion in media across EU member states. Brexit has already pushed referendums into the public debate in Holland and France. Brexit 2 would risk more.
The EU has played the traditional scapegoat role for right wingers for 20 years. Wonder who or what is going to step into that role when all is not peachy.
I hopeful the leaders of the Leave Campaign will be the new scapegoat.
No wonder Johnson and Gove looked yesterday that they had shit their pants. Farage is too fucking stupid to understand the implications of the Brexit nihilism.
The best result for Brexit would have been a narrow win for leave. Then they could have carried on as before, carping from the sidelines. With Brexit the lunatics have been given the keys to the asylum.
Oh dear the chaos continues. -The Mayor of Calais is reconsidering the border controls- saying the French should no longer hold the refugees at Calais. Great stuff- we will move the Jungle to the racist Kent coast. Well Cameron did warn us -The six founding members of EU are meeting to decide to terms of our exit- Britain at the margins, a place we will have to get used to for many years to come. The first summit meeting we have not been invited to since 1975. Excellent- the UK is insignificant and ignored- a place we remember well from our time as the sick man of Europe before joining the EU -Our credit rating has been dropped to negative (on par with Spain)- the worst it has ever been by Moody's- let me remember something, oh yes we were warned about this one too by the Experts -The UK plunged into a constitutional crisis with the rise of Scottish and Irish nationalism- oh yes, didn't Cameron remind us of that one too? -Dominic Grieve saying the country is suffering an economic meltdown- now this is merely a year after we had Osborne's Long Term Economic Plan repeated ad nauseum at the 2015 election -Indian business leaders reviewing long term investment in the UK because of access to single market. The commonwealth argument- why would external investors from our great commonwealth invest in a market that only has access to 60m people?
Many people regretting now the fact that they voted leave- too late now suckers
Still we've taken back control. Right. We've taken back control to be a despised, ignored, insignificant, broken up, poorer little country faced to deal with some of the greatest global challenges- the migrant crisis per instance- alone. It wasn't like we were not warned.
Well fucking done Brexit.
If you think North Down and East Belfast are about to vote to leave the UK, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
@ianbirrell: Message this morning from Brexiters: yes, economy will grow slower, shares down, pound falling. And won't keep promises on NHS & immigration
No second referendum. The EU leaders will want this ended ASAP.
Another referendum in the UK keeps the EU referendum notion in media across EU member states. Brexit has already pushed referendums into the public debate in Holland and France. Brexit 2 would risk more.
The EU has played the traditional scapegoat role for right wingers for 20 years. Wonder who or what is going to step into that role when all is not peachy.
I hopeful the leaders of the Leave Campaign will be the new scapegoat.
Couldn't we have prettier scapegoats than that? Liz Hurley backed Leave, lets make her the wicked one.
From 'Moneywise' What does Brexit mean for pensions?
Following the news that the UK has voted to leave the European Union we ask what impact the move will have on your pension, whether you are years away, approaching retirement or already retired.
For savers in defined contribution schemes: As the value of a defined contribution pension is directly linked to the stock market, members of these schemes will see the value of their savings drop on the back of the Brexit vote. Within minutes of opening the FTSE 100 lost 500 points with some banks falling by as much as 30%. But Tom McPhail, head of retirement policy at Hargreaves Lansdown is telling savers not to panic.
“For long term pension investors who may be seeing the value of their retirement savings falling today, the key message is to do nothing unless you have to,” he says. “We are likely to experience a period of volatility in the markets and uncertainty in the wider economy, in these conditions, acting in haste is unlikely to serve well. If you are years from retirement and making regular savings, then just keep going; falls in the market mean buying investments at a lower price.”
The news will be more worrying to savers who are closer to retirement and may not have time to make up significant losses. However, Mr McPhail still urged against making hasty decisions. “If you are close to retirement, then try to avoid selling funds and shares right now. Annuity rates may move in response to changing interest rates, however this is not certain. International and domestic demand for Gilts and Sterling denominated investment grade bonds will influence annuity rates, as will expectations of inflation and to a lesser degree, short-term interest rate movements.”
'Uncertain' housing market after Leave vote Stock markets and pound plunge on 'Black Friday' as Britain votes for Brexit For those investors that have already retired and are drawing an income from their savings, Mr McPhail recommended limiting withdrawals to ensure remaining capital is not eroded further.
I think it's good that the old gits saved the naïve and inexperienced from themselves.
When you see a child setting off to cross the road for the first time, it's nice to have parents to pull him back from the edge of the pavement. "No, dear, that's bad for you." They have to learn but you have to do it in small stages.
Just a taste of the Remainers' sneering attitude to anyone who disagrees with them.
What makes me most angry about the UK's plunge into the nihilism of Brexit with the oldies- they had it all. The rising stock market, the pensions and retirement often from 60 or below, good jobs, free education, access to the housing ladder.
Young people already had it bad. But now, having Brexit foisted on them because of (predominantly the 70%) racist and ignorant old people. I put the % figure in there because I don't want to tar all oldies with the same brush- only those mean spirited lot who voted Brexit.
Oh dear the chaos continues. -The Mayor of Calais is reconsidering the border controls- saying the French should no longer hold the refugees at Calais. Great stuff- we will move the Jungle to the racist Kent coast. Well Cameron did warn us -The six founding members of EU are meeting to decide to terms of our exit- Britain at the margins, a place we will have to get used to for many years to come. The first summit meeting we have not been invited to since 1975. Excellent- the UK is insignificant and ignored- a place we remember well from our time as the sick man of Europe before joining the EU -Our credit rating has been dropped to negative (on par with Spain)- the worst it has ever been by Moody's- let me remember something, oh yes we were warned about this one too by the Experts -The UK plunged into a constitutional crisis with the rise of Scottish and Irish nationalism- oh yes, didn't Cameron remind us of that one too? -Dominic Grieve saying the country is suffering an economic meltdown- now this is merely a year after we had Osborne's Long Term Economic Plan repeated ad nauseum at the 2015 election -Indian business leaders reviewing long term investment in the UK because of access to single market. The commonwealth argument- why would external investors from our great commonwealth invest in a market that only has access to 60m people?
Many people regretting now the fact that they voted leave- too late now suckers
Still we've taken back control. Right. We've taken back control to be a despised, ignored, insignificant, broken up, poorer little country faced to deal with some of the greatest global challenges- the migrant crisis per instance- alone. It wasn't like we were not warned.
Well fucking done Brexit.
The credit rating by Moody's hasn't been dropped - it's just been put on negative watch.
Tyson spake unto the nations: Oh dear the chaos continues. -The Mayor of Calais is reconsidering the border controls- saying the French should no longer hold the refugees at Calais. Great stuff- we will move the Jungle to the racist Kent coast. Well Cameron did warn us.
Didn't realise the Mayor of Calais decided British Border policy. Anyway, if France boots out our border guards we just fine the ferry and channel tunnel operators £10,000 per person without right of entry who turns up and they will do the job for us (just like aircraft operators already do for exactly the same reason
-The six founding members of EU are meeting to decide to terms of our exit
Much as I would love to be a fly on the wall for Comedy reasons, do take note that our stock market fell by 2.5% yesterday but still ended up up on the week whereas theirs all fell by 7-12%. They have much more to lose than us if they are silly
-Our credit rating has been dropped to negative (on par with Spain)- the worst it has ever been by Moody's- let me remember something, oh yes we were warned about this one too by the Experts
By the same bodies that gave worthless junk bonds AAA ratings and help caused the 2008 crisies.....
-The UK plunged into a constitutional crisis with the rise of Scottish and Irish nationalism- oh yes, didn't Cameron remind us of that one too?
""Mr Adams was applauded when he responded: "They haven't gone away, you know.""
Appeasement never works
-Dominic Grieve saying the country is suffering an economic meltdown- now this is merely a year after we had Osborne's Long Term Economic Plan repeated ad nauseum at the 2015 election
Tell me how Greece are getting on within the EU right now?
-Indian business leaders reviewing long term investment in the UK because of access to single market. The commonwealth argument- why would external investors from our great commonwealth invest in a market that only has access to 60m people?
The same India who pulled the plug on their biggest British investment, British Steel - before - the referendum, ensuring a Welsh "out" vote?
Many people regretting now the fact that they voted leave- too late now suckers
Well the media have found a few. No where near 750,000 which would have reversed the result
Still we've taken back control. Right. We've taken back control to be a despised, ignored, insignificant, broken up, poorer little country faced to deal with some of the greatest global challenges- the migrant crisis per instance- alone. It wasn't like we were not warned.
Well fucking done Brexit.
Even if all your predictions are true, which I don't believe for a minute, this result has been worth it just for the comedy value of seeing the great, good and self important utterly defeated and impotent and running round in panic like headless chickens spouting futile and vapid bilge ever more loudly.
The EU has played the traditional scapegoat role for right wingers for 20 years. Wonder who or what is going to step into that role when all is not peachy.
I hopeful the leaders of the Leave Campaign will be the new scapegoat.
No wonder Johnson and Gove looked yesterday that they had shit their pants. Farage is too fucking stupid to understand the implications of the Brexit nihilism.
The best result for Brexit would have been a narrow win for leave. Then they could have carried on as before, carping from the sidelines. With Brexit the lunatics have been given the keys to the asylum.
Comments
The tone of the Remainers was hideously wrong throughout. And shows no sign of changing even after the result.
.
Anyway ifs and buts are irrelevant now. Just amusing to see Leavers try and claim the moral high ground.
Loser.
LOL
TBH without the EU as the central plank, they just seem like a libertarian BNP lite
Its a truism that Nigel divides opinion, even his many detractors have to accept that he has incredible energy and determination. Those of us that have fought campaigns (I don't mean delivering leaflets in safe seats) know how draining and exhausting they are, Nigel has had any number of knock backs over 25 years, never underestimate his strength of character.
He has probably hit the glass ceiling at 4m votes, the big question is can anybody else match, let alone exceed that? There are any number of very capable people within Ukip and now we are out of the EU the message has to change.
My own view is that Nigel can and will stand down with his head held high, the leadership election will dictate which direction the party moves in. Suzanne Evans is first class but my choice would be Stephen Woolfe, a very measured man from a tough part of Manchester, his approach would be entirely different to Nigel's, fascinating to see the outcome.
Right now it reads "people call others who didn't support their Faragist agenda losers, then complain about tone" = IRONIC
@BBCNormanS: Jeremy Corbyn isn't the right person to lead Labour cos nobody thinks he will win - @frankfieldteam @BBCr4today
@Claire_Phipps: Frank Field says Jeremy Corbyn should announce his resignation today https://t.co/o7ynfDFmg2
Well.... It's a view I suppose.
And is "idiot bigot" the new W-A-Y-C-I-S-T?
The UK is fatally wounded because of the decision on 23/6. Little England, with Wales in its coat tails, will survive as an impoverished semi-independent state on the fringes of Europe, but the EU will do its utmost to make its position as uncomfortable as possible. I expect relations between the EU and this rump state to be little different from those between the EU and the other significant state on the fringe of Europe, namely Russia.
With respect to Scotland, Chris Cairns’ cartoon from several years ago (pre-Indy ref) is rather apt today:
http://nationalcollective.com/2013/05/14/havent-i-always-told-you-were-safer-together/
I expect Scotland to becomes independent within 2 years in order that it never leaves the EU (in line with the Section 50 timeline which is already ticking).
Once this happens, the links from the "six counties" to Westminster become untenable politically, geographically and economically. I would therefore expect an actual united 32 county Irish republic is likely by the time of the centenary of the secession of the 26 counties in 1922.
The UK will be no more.
I guess that the next set of Euro elections (in 2019?) will not be held.
You can get some 7s on Betfair
You don't care what the democratic majority in this country think so why would you even care about what a handful of office wallah's in a London basement think.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=waycist
See you all later.
The first thing to consider would be that the vote was very close. That means that Parliament will feel less inclined to agree to any solution outside the single market in the short term. Vote Leave and its agenda is dead, at least if the Tories want any chance in 2020
Then potentially Scotland gets great control over one of its largest resources, the North Sea. It gets policy flexibility.
Add to that, the possibility of greater devolution because fewer legislative instruments will be passed directly from Brussels via Westminster. Certain competencies such as environment will eventually totally return to the UK, and can be devolved. Scotland could find itself more independent in a post Brexit UK than a post UK EU.
As I've told you before writing waycist doesn't magically make everyone who points out bigotry wrong.. Fortunately it's still so side splittingly funny that doesn't matter though.
For you "Just over half the people" ( 2million in real numbers) is not a majority then? Geographically limited ....huh?
Either way thanks for clearing that up and your general attitude to our democracy and the will of the British people. The people obviously made the right choice based on that cavalier attitude to their views by you and other Remainers and indeed for 40 years by the European project.
For me, had the remain vote been 50% and then plus one single person then that's a majority and the will of the people . As much as I would have preferred the opposite result I advocated many times on here if that occurs we should embrace the EU fully, join Schengen and adopt the euro
The difference between you and me and also many Remainers is I respect the democratic process.
"The people have voted ....the bastards. "
I've seen similar clips from the BBC floating around Twitter comparing us directly Trump supporters - and not in a nice way. They really don't get it. Even vox pops are all nice young middle class hipsters saying they voted in, and down at heel oldsters for out. The message is very clear.
There seems to be a suggestion of ignoring the Referendum result being touted around the talk shows.
Mr Corbyn is either a luke-warm Remainer, or a Leaver at heart. I don't want him replaced by a true-believer Remain MP.
That suggests to me that there is something about growing older that moves one towards conservative (small c) political positions.
this leave campaigner you mean
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36509931
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgVQtGw80LY
Nothing has happened. The SNP are constantly talking about another scottish referendum. This is not new.
Good piece, Mr. Herdson. I wonder if the 2015 electoral results (particularly second-placed purple constituencies) may prove an influential factor.
What a 24 hours, and I'm £120 up as well.
Is it just possible that the awful reality of the situation is dawning on some, and they are lashing out in impotent rage at their own folly?
The age profile for families is interesting - if your kids are under 10, you voted Remain. Over 11 - and you voted Leave.
Oh, wait...
"Mass immigration was obviously a huge influence on the vote. ‘Sovereignty’ was always an abstract, but the visible loss of control of our national borders revealed to millions that it is in fact a tangible thing which affects their lives. Even so, do not underestimate the role played by generalised discontent about everything from absurdly high housing costs, unchecked crime and disorder, the transformation of education into a privilege for the rich and influential, diminishing wages, the impossibility of maintaining standards of living without getting into debt, overloaded health services and miserable opportunities for the young."
"The referendum achieved, by a dangerous short cut, something I have been hoping for and arguing for and seeking for many years – an alliance between the social conservatives trapped and ignored in a liberal Tory Party and the social conservatives trapped in a liberal Labour Party. I had long believed (since the isolated example of a November 2004 referendum on regional government in the North-East) such a combination would throw the ghastly forces of Blairism into the sea."
Another referendum in the UK keeps the EU referendum notion in media across EU member states. Brexit has already pushed referendums into the public debate in Holland and France. Brexit 2 would risk more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djwkhXkvPkI
-The Mayor of Calais is reconsidering the border controls- saying the French should no longer hold the refugees at Calais. Great stuff- we will move the Jungle to the racist Kent coast. Well Cameron did warn us
-The six founding members of EU are meeting to decide to terms of our exit- Britain at the margins, a place we will have to get used to for many years to come. The first summit meeting we have not been invited to since 1975. Excellent- the UK is insignificant and ignored- a place we remember well from our time as the sick man of Europe before joining the EU
-Our credit rating has been dropped to negative (on par with Spain)- the worst it has ever been by Moody's- let me remember something, oh yes we were warned about this one too by the Experts
-The UK plunged into a constitutional crisis with the rise of Scottish and Irish nationalism- oh yes, didn't Cameron remind us of that one too?
-Dominic Grieve saying the country is suffering an economic meltdown- now this is merely a year after we had Osborne's Long Term Economic Plan repeated ad nauseum at the 2015 election
-Indian business leaders reviewing long term investment in the UK because of access to single market. The commonwealth argument- why would external investors from our great commonwealth invest in a market that only has access to 60m people?
Many people regretting now the fact that they voted leave- too late now suckers
Still we've taken back control. Right. We've taken back control to be a despised, ignored, insignificant, broken up, poorer little country faced to deal with some of the greatest global challenges- the migrant crisis per instance- alone. It wasn't like we were not warned.
Well fucking done Brexit.
Meanwhile the greater number of people 52.9% (BBC result) are dismissed as bigoted little Englanders.
I think it's good that the old gits saved the naïve and inexperienced from themselves.
When you see a child setting off to cross the road for the first time, it's nice to have parents to pull him back from the edge of the pavement. "No, dear, that's bad for you." They have to learn but you have to do it in small stages.
Just a taste of the Remainers' sneering attitude to anyone who disagrees with them.
The best result for Brexit would have been a narrow win for leave. Then they could have carried on as before, carping from the sidelines.
With Brexit the lunatics have been given the keys to the asylum.
You're welcome...
Is that petition serious - the referendums would be never ending.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/22/22/358FFCD100000578-3655236-image-m-34_1466632555937.jpg
https://twitter.com/shandypockets/status/746441650830872576
What does Brexit mean for pensions?
Following the news that the UK has voted to leave the European Union we ask what impact the move will have on your pension, whether you are years away, approaching retirement or already retired.
For savers in defined contribution schemes:
As the value of a defined contribution pension is directly linked to the stock market, members of these schemes will see the value of their savings drop on the back of the Brexit vote. Within minutes of opening the FTSE 100 lost 500 points with some banks falling by as much as 30%. But Tom McPhail, head of retirement policy at Hargreaves Lansdown is telling savers not to panic.
“For long term pension investors who may be seeing the value of their retirement savings falling today, the key message is to do nothing unless you have to,” he says. “We are likely to experience a period of volatility in the markets and uncertainty in the wider economy, in these conditions, acting in haste is unlikely to serve well. If you are years from retirement and making regular savings, then just keep going; falls in the market mean buying investments at a lower price.”
The news will be more worrying to savers who are closer to retirement and may not have time to make up significant losses. However, Mr McPhail still urged against making hasty decisions. “If you are close to retirement, then try to avoid selling funds and shares right now. Annuity rates may move in response to changing interest rates, however this is not certain. International and domestic demand for Gilts and Sterling denominated investment grade bonds will influence annuity rates, as will expectations of inflation and to a lesser degree, short-term interest rate movements.”
'Uncertain' housing market after Leave vote
Stock markets and pound plunge on 'Black Friday' as Britain votes for Brexit
For those investors that have already retired and are drawing an income from their savings, Mr McPhail recommended limiting withdrawals to ensure remaining capital is not eroded further.
Young people already had it bad. But now, having Brexit foisted on them because of (predominantly the 70%) racist and ignorant old people. I put the % figure in there because I don't want to tar all oldies with the same brush- only those mean spirited lot who voted Brexit.
Oh dear the chaos continues.
-The Mayor of Calais is reconsidering the border controls- saying the French should no longer hold the refugees at Calais. Great stuff- we will move the Jungle to the racist Kent coast. Well Cameron did warn us.
Didn't realise the Mayor of Calais decided British Border policy. Anyway, if France boots out our border guards we just fine the ferry and channel tunnel operators £10,000 per person without right of entry who turns up and they will do the job for us (just like aircraft operators already do for exactly the same reason
-The six founding members of EU are meeting to decide to terms of our exit
Much as I would love to be a fly on the wall for Comedy reasons, do take note that our stock market fell by 2.5% yesterday but still ended up up on the week whereas theirs all fell by 7-12%. They have much more to lose than us if they are silly
-Our credit rating has been dropped to negative (on par with Spain)- the worst it has ever been by Moody's- let me remember something, oh yes we were warned about this one too by the Experts
By the same bodies that gave worthless junk bonds AAA ratings and help caused the 2008 crisies.....
-The UK plunged into a constitutional crisis with the rise of Scottish and Irish nationalism- oh yes, didn't Cameron remind us of that one too?
""Mr Adams was applauded when he responded: "They haven't gone away, you know.""
Appeasement never works
-Dominic Grieve saying the country is suffering an economic meltdown- now this is merely a year after we had Osborne's Long Term Economic Plan repeated ad nauseum at the 2015 election
Tell me how Greece are getting on within the EU right now?
-Indian business leaders reviewing long term investment in the UK because of access to single market. The commonwealth argument- why would external investors from our great commonwealth invest in a market that only has access to 60m people?
The same India who pulled the plug on their biggest British investment, British Steel - before - the referendum, ensuring a Welsh "out" vote?
Many people regretting now the fact that they voted leave- too late now suckers
Well the media have found a few. No where near 750,000 which would have reversed the result
Still we've taken back control. Right. We've taken back control to be a despised, ignored, insignificant, broken up, poorer little country faced to deal with some of the greatest global challenges- the migrant crisis per instance- alone. It wasn't like we were not warned.
Well fucking done Brexit.
Even if all your predictions are true, which I don't believe for a minute, this result has been worth it just for the comedy value of seeing the great, good and self important utterly defeated and impotent and running round in panic like headless chickens spouting futile and vapid bilge ever more loudly.
At least we'll have a wonderful NHS with an extra £350 million per week.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html
It must have been Boris and Gove who signed off on that promise as Farage has disowned it as 'a mistake'.