It looks like Farage is standing by the poster (metaphorically as well as literally).
People aren't stupid. They've had enough of the metropolitan Thought Police.
The more the pinkos bleat and try to close down free speech, the more people will realise "This is probably our LAST chance to change and avert disaster."
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I think Ruth Davidson will be the most impressive for Remain.
I agree. I've never heard of O'Grady and think Khan is average at best. Of course, based on their previous shambles, I'd expect Remain to have done their homework and prepped harder.
Westminster bubble wise, I wonder if Davidson is going to go after Boris?
Remain won't make the same mistake again. Got to remember that Leave are up against some of the best, and most ruthless, political strategists and tacticians in the country.
The TUC rep is obviously to appeal to swing WWC Labour voters, Khan in London and Ruth for Unionists in Scotland, and some swing Tories in England. I don't think Ruth will do personal.
So they've probably picked the right team.
Agreed. Frances O'Grady is a very good and disciplined media performer.
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
Very strange. Are people in Scotland just not bothered?
Maybe they are wishing Leave to win as long as they vote Remain.
The Farage poster will appeal to a lot of people, just not the type who post on here or who provide political commentary.
Leave will lose, but not because of this poster that 99% will not have seen, especially as nobody watches politics shows on a Sunday morning.
The problem is that the 'poster' is headlining on the news channels and is the subject of widespread discussion and your hope that 99% will not see it is with respect widely overstated
Free Movement = Unlimited (Immigration + Emigration)
As you say. The issue (and I'm only picking on Poles because the numbers are easier to dig up) is that there ~6,000 Brits in Poland, and around 800k Poles in Britain.
What's depressed me most about the campaign is that Remain doesn't want to talk about immigration and Leave won't talk about the nuances of immigration. It's just Racist! vs Be Afraid!
There's nothing wrong with immigration. We've been welcoming people here for centuries, beginning with the Hugenots in the 18th century.
( There was a lovely radio 4 program a couple of years ago about the long tradition of Liverpool girls marrying Chinese mariners (they were seen as more reliable and faithful than the local men).
Our problem is the pace of change and the rate of increase. There is no reason to believe Cameron's measures will be effective.
That means we will have around 4 million extra people (plus the natural growth in the population) by 2030. Remain just won't engage with that. It will require welfare reform, planning reform, health reform. None of that is on the agenda.
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
Shame.
My wife tells me there have been quite a number of letters in the Courier about the fishing issue. Passed me by I am afraid.
The Farage poster will appeal to a lot of people, just not the type who post on here or who provide political commentary.
Leave will lose, but not because of this poster that 99% will not have seen, especially as nobody watches politics shows on a Sunday morning.
I am going to take a contrary view to most PB folk on the matter of the poster.
The problem for REMAIN (and their friends in the media) is that they keep wanting to poke at the Farge poster and in doing so they reintroduce the immigration issue into the debate. The more they pour scorn on it (rightly) the more they talk about immigration and how they are trying to shut down concerns on immigration. These are basic campaigning errors. Farage's poster should be regarded as a dead cat that draws in the discussion to the terrible image of the dead cat.
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
Very strange. Are people in Scotland just not bothered?
Speaking for my experience, no they aren't.
There's probably two issues behind this. After the Indyref campaign there is a huge swathe of Scotland which simply does not believe economic threats, so Leaving does not hold any fear (which is the prime market for Remain voters). By the same token, Scotland needs more migrants so the Leave case has limited traction as well.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I think Ruth Davidson will be the most impressive for Remain.
I hope so - I am so impressed by her and hope someday she will lead the Conservative Party
If she dries out on the EU, then I might agree with you ;-)
Lets hope that one way or another we can all get back to governing the Country in a few days time
Osborne's head is the price of peace, either way.
I absolutely concur with that as I think you may know
As a non Tory voter in a safe Tory seat, I currently have a greater democratic influence in the EU than I do at Westminster. The last general election produced the least representative parliament I can remember.
This is just not true though as it makes the mistake of thinking our democratic influence is expressed only at the ballot box. It isn't.
UK Westminster politicians are responsive to public opinion, even between elections. Take the continued stream of policy u-turns the Tory Government has made over the last 12 months (tax credits, academies, etc.). This reflects the fact that the Chancellor has to come to the House of Commons to deliver his budget, that there is weekly PMQs, grillings from broadcast journalists, a vibrant daily national press, and a myriad of pressure groups.
In short, there is a UK political culture and conversation.
These things simply do not exist at a European level, or exist in a much more attenuated fashion.
The UK political system is far from perfect. But it is democratically much healthier than the EU one, where there is virtually no public debate about the many decisions those institutions are taking.
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
There have been a few Leave/Grassroots Out stalls in central Edinburgh and Remain have definitely been out in a small way with stalls round my bit of north Edinburgh. But, no posters, and very few leaflets - about 20% of what I got in the Holyrood election.
It does feel a bit like its not our fight. I expect we'll turn up on Thursday, but most of the chat amongst friends and family shows our heart isn't really in it.
I'm not. She knows far more than any of us what it is like to live in an multinational superstate where the leaders are unelected and care not a whit about your countries culture and aspirations.
Mr. D, the Mass Effect trilogy is damned good. Femshep may be the single best voice-acted character in any game.
Getting Andromeda? I'm in two minds about it. I like the series but Bioware's approach to DLC is something that's increasingly annoying me.
Mr. Quidder, surely you already knew of her sound judgement and good taste?
Afraid it may be a disappointment (didn't care too much for the Dragon Age sequels, for instance). Saying that, the promo stuff that came out recently looks pretty nice!
Getting Andromeda? I'm in two minds about it. I like the series but Bioware's approach to DLC is something that's increasingly annoying me.
Well, they are owned by EA.
I find their stuff so good that unless its widely reported the game is, against form, utter shite, I'm buying it. I guess that makes me part of the problem, crappy DLC approaches and other business practices, but oh well - at least I've never used micro transactions.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
One line of questioning for Boris will surely be based on the footage that emerged today of him extolling the virtues of the single market.
The Single Market is a cunning european wide piece of neo liberal beauty. What Conservative couldn't?
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
Very strange. Are people in Scotland just not bothered?
Immigration is not an issue up here. Our population is pretty static and has been for a very long time. To be honest we could probably do with a few more people, especially if they had relevant skills. I think the lack of that issue takes a lot of the heat out.
Also all of the elected leaders are for In so there is no one to argue with. An ex MP like Tom Harris is about the best Leave can come up with.
Labour got a 50-60 odd seat majority with slightly worse (I think) figures in 2005.
2005 was shit, but 2015 is in a different league. Westminster is broken and not ready for more power as is.
How was 2015 worse when Labour got a bigger majority on worse figures?
It's not just about Labour. Two national parties got 20 per cent of votes and less than 10 seats between them. A smaller party than either, with about five per cent of votes, got over 50 seats. So it is 2005 plus a totally confused situation regarding the range of opposition voices that are heard in Westminster and who, implicitly, could have an influence on the next government formation.
For the first time this campaign I feel like Leave are on the moral high ground. Rather than give Jo Cox's death the moment of sombre reflection and respect it deserves, everyone on my side has decidedly to nakedly exploit it. David Cameron's tasteless comparison of her vision to Nigel Farage's was a new low. It was as cynical and tasteless as anything Alastair Campbell and Tony Blair ever did.
Remain will win this Thursday, but it will be a great moral defeat. I did not want to win like this.
The Farage poster will appeal to a lot of people, just not the type who post on here or who provide political commentary.
Leave will lose, but not because of this poster that 99% will not have seen, especially as nobody watches politics shows on a Sunday morning.
The problem is that the 'poster' is headlining on the news channels and is the subject of widespread discussion and your hope that 99% will not see it is with respect widely overstated
Which is exactly what Farage wants. Metropolitan types bouncing up and down with outrage, banging on about immigration and pubpicising his dog whistle further and wider than any ad campaign could
Mr. D, DA2 was compromised by clearly being rushed. I did like Lady Hawke's voice a lot, though.
Mass Effect's been more consistent in style, which I think has helped it. But, as I say, DLC can be a bugger. Both ME3 and DAI had DLC that should've, I think, been in the main game.
Lots of games coming out fairly soon. Got limited time/money, so not sure precisely what I'll get. Skyrim would've been obvious were it not for the piss-taking price tag. May get XCOM 2 in September.
The Farage poster will appeal to a lot of people, just not the type who post on here or who provide political commentary.
Leave will lose, but not because of this poster that 99% will not have seen, especially as nobody watches politics shows on a Sunday morning.
I am going to take a contrary view to most PB folk on the matter of the poster.
The problem for REMAIN (and their friends in the media) is that they keep wanting to poke at the Farge poster and in doing so they reintroduce the immigration issue into the debate. The more they pour scorn on it (rightly) the more they talk about immigration and how they are trying to shut down concerns on immigration. These are basic campaigning errors. Farage's poster should be regarded as a dead cat that draws in the discussion to the terrible image of the dead cat.
I quite agree - Farage has swotted Murnaghan away on Sky. I'm really very impressed at how he's got right out of a very tight corner. He's a lot better at this than I thought.
I'm not. She knows far more than any of us what it is like to live in an multinational superstate where the leaders are unelected and care not a whit about your countries culture and aspirations.
Yes, but she's an ethnically Russian Estonian!
I asked why, she said because England should be English and because countries like Estonia, Poland etc. have been damaged by their youngsters coming here.
Mr. D, the Mass Effect trilogy is damned good. Femshep may be the single best voice-acted character in any game.
Getting Andromeda? I'm in two minds about it. I like the series but Bioware's approach to DLC is something that's increasingly annoying me.
Mr. Quidder, surely you already knew of her sound judgement and good taste?
Afraid it may be a disappointment (didn't care too much for the Dragon Age sequels, for instance). Saying that, the promo stuff that came out recently looks pretty nice!
I'm actually a big fan of Dragon Age 2, which is an unpopular view - rush job and full of copy pasted material though it is, its unconventional story and good characters have stuck with me more than most games.
Despite my bulging list of unfinished or unplayed games, I was thinking of replaying both the DA series and Mass Effect series - so that's *calculates* about 250 hours.
The end of communism saw birth rates collapse in many countries.
More to do? End of abortion on demand?
Why would the second point be responsible? I suppose poor economic growth could be related, although surely things would have picked up by now. Based on the earlier link, Poland has lost 2million of its population to emigration, over 5%!
I'm not. She knows far more than any of us what it is like to live in an multinational superstate where the leaders are unelected and care not a whit about your countries culture and aspirations.
The Commission are elected by the European Parliament and the prime ministers.
The end of communism saw birth rates collapse in many countries.
More to do? End of abortion on demand?
Why would the second point be responsible? I suppose poor economic growth could be related, although surely things would have picked up by now. Based on the earlier link, Poland has lost 2million of its population to emigration, over 5%!
Yeah - that second one was a bit crap, wasn't it? :-)
The Farage poster will appeal to a lot of people, just not the type who post on here or who provide political commentary.
Leave will lose, but not because of this poster that 99% will not have seen, especially as nobody watches politics shows on a Sunday morning.
The problem is that the 'poster' is headlining on the news channels and is the subject of widespread discussion and your hope that 99% will not see it is with respect widely overstated
Which is exactly what Farage wants. Metropolitan types bouncing up and down with outrage, banging on about immigration and pubpicising his dog whistle further and wider than any ad campaign could
I don't think you see the wider picture that while it will appeal to UKIP'ers it will turn away many thousands of undecided voters who leave need to convert to win this campaign
Mr. kle4, I'm just getting a bit more cynical about games. I think Bethesda lost some goodwill with their $50 season pass and seeming lack of DLC (to justify that sum). Charging full-price for a remaster some people have already bought twice won't improve that feeling.
Mind you, CD Projekt Red have been doing things pretty nicely. Reminds me, I may actually buy The Witcher 3's DLC.
The end of communism saw birth rates collapse in many countries.
More to do? End of abortion on demand?
Things are moving that way in several ee states as well as Russia.
Wonder how all the lefty remainers will feel if the ECHR /ECJ has a rather more conservative tone in about 20 years and decides to ban abortion over the head of our elected parliament?
Well worth it. It's not quite as deep as XCOM became with its later expansion, but I've rarely seen a sequel to a game which was already very well liked, so obviously make changes to address the few things people did have a problem with - when playing it the first time I really noticed how they had made an effort to address almost all concerns.
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
Scotland and REMAIN is an interesting question for the 3 vs 3 debates. It has about 8.5% of the votes and in the first 3 vs 3, REMAIN had 1/3 of its panel from Scotland. Now in the 2nd 3 vs 3 REMAIN go back and again have 1/3 from Scotland. REMAIN have not, for example chosen one of its 6 choices to be from the Midlands.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
One line of questioning for Boris will surely be based on the footage that emerged today of him extolling the virtues of the single market.
Boris extols the virtues of the Single Market. He also backed Turkey entering the EU sitting by the Bosphorus . So, why exactly is he not in the Remain camp ? Anything to do with becoming PM perhaps ? He is such a slimy git !
Mr. D, the Mass Effect trilogy is damned good. Femshep may be the single best voice-acted character in any game.
Getting Andromeda? I'm in two minds about it. I like the series but Bioware's approach to DLC is something that's increasingly annoying me.
Mr. Quidder, surely you already knew of her sound judgement and good taste?
Afraid it may be a disappointment (didn't care too much for the Dragon Age sequels, for instance). Saying that, the promo stuff that came out recently looks pretty nice!
I'm actually a big fan of Dragon Age 2, which is an unpopular view - rush job and full of copy pasted material though it is, its unconventional story and good characters have stuck with me more than most games.
Despite my bulging list of unfinished or unplayed games, I was thinking of replaying both the DA series and Mass Effect series - so that's *calculates* about 250 hours.
Maybe wait until Andromeda has a release date, then plan accordingly. That way you can dive right in with all the lore fresh in your mind.
The end of communism saw birth rates collapse in many countries.
Any hints as to what caused it? I guess I could look it up, but much easier to ask the doyens on here.
This is a good article that looks at the issue from the other end of the telescope - what it's like to live in a country with low fertility (Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in the world, which is bizarre for a largely Catholic country) and high emigration. It's not pretty.
The end of communism saw birth rates collapse in many countries.
More to do? End of abortion on demand?
Why would the second point be responsible? I suppose poor economic growth could be related, although surely things would have picked up by now. Based on the earlier link, Poland has lost 2million of its population to emigration, over 5%!
Yeah - that second one was a bit crap, wasn't it? :-)
Could one of our experts please shed any light on this possible VAT change? True? Crock? Undecided?
Louise Mensch @LouiseMensch Sorry, h/t for this mRichardADixon - is UK to lose an extra fifteen billion pounds in EU VAT bombshell? http://tinyurl.com/h26d9nt
Sounds very plausible. We lose, guess who wins? The Germans.
They really have this whole european arrangement beautifully lined up in their favour.
Mr. kle4, I'm just getting a bit more cynical about games. I think Bethesda lost some goodwill with their $50 season pass and seeming lack of DLC (to justify that sum). Charging full-price for a remaster some people have already bought twice won't improve that feeling.
Mind you, CD Projekt Red have been doing things pretty nicely. Reminds me, I may actually buy The Witcher 3's DLC.
Shame about Bethesda - as far as big companies go, I've generally regarded them as one of the better ones in terms of that sort of thing.
UK Westminster politicians are responsive to public opinion, even between elections. Take the continued stream of policy u-turns the Tory Government has made over the last 12 months (tax credits, academies, etc.). This reflects the fact that the Chancellor has to come to the House of Commons to deliver his budget, that there is weekly PMQs, grillings from broadcast journalists, a vibrant daily national press, and a myriad of pressure groups.
Nonsense, all the U-turns were due to the lack of a Government majority in the House of Lords.
FPTP ensures that the government only has to be responsive to a tiny slice of public opinion living in marginal constituencies.
Mr. kle4, in general terms I do think Bethesda gets things right. This is the first serious annoyance I can remember hearing about since the horse armour business.
The end of communism saw birth rates collapse in many countries.
Any hints as to what caused it? I guess I could look it up, but much easier to ask the doyens on here.
This is a good article that looks at the issue from the other end of the telescope - what it's like to live in a country with low fertility (Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in the world, which is bizarre for a largely Catholic country) and high emigration. It's not pretty.
Of course, birth rates have collapsed in a lot of countries. In China, the TFR is 0.7 in Shanghai province, and 0.8 in Macau and Beijing. Those are staggeringly low numbers. Essentially for three adults, you end up with only one child.
Singapore - despite some very aggressive pro-natal policies - also has a very low birth rate, and so does Japan (which hardly has any working wives).
Even Iran and Mexico have birth rates below replacement levels these days.
Edit to add: Mexico is still above replacement. Just. Iran is well below.
Edit to add 2: Holy Crap. Singapore is down at 0.8 too.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I would have thought that Remain would try to get someone in who might plausibly be thought to speak for middle England.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
One line of questioning for Boris will surely be based on the footage that emerged today of him extolling the virtues of the single market.
Boris extols the virtues of the Single Market. He also backed Turkey entering the EU sitting by the Bosphorus . So, why exactly is he not in the Remain camp ? Anything to do with becoming PM perhaps ? He is such a slimy git !
I understand he is part of a group of 70 Brexiteers who are endorsing David Cameron as continuing in Office post the referendum. It looks like he is trying to gain favour with the 185 or so Conservative MP's who already support DC and probably wants time to show he can run a responsible Cabinet post so as to diminish the accusation that he only lead leave as an attempt to succeed DC
UK Westminster politicians are responsive to public opinion, even between elections. Take the continued stream of policy u-turns the Tory Government has made over the last 12 months (tax credits, academies, etc.). This reflects the fact that the Chancellor has to come to the House of Commons to deliver his budget, that there is weekly PMQs, grillings from broadcast journalists, a vibrant daily national press, and a myriad of pressure groups.
Nonsense, all the U-turns were due to the lack of a Government majority in the House of Lords.
FPTP ensures that the government only has to be responsive to a tiny slice of public opinion living in marginal constituencies.
They surely have to be responsive to all the voters up until they get to those living in the marginal constituencies? Otherwise they'd only have those votes in those marginal constituencies.
He put the country first. His sacrifice will be rewarded, in this life or the next one.
George Osborne, master strategist and true patriot
With all the stunning appeal to just 2% of voters including you.
I honestly used to think Osborne was not even interested in being party leader, that he recognised he was better being a loyal no.2 to Cameron and was positioning to carry that on after Cameron left. When they unexpectedly won a majority and his stock was at its highest, it was really only then that he came to be regarded as being in prime position to take over in his own right, which given he'd been chancellor for 5 years and hadn't been so considered, should have been a sign it was not to be.
Now a part of me thinks he really is just super loyal - he'll take the hits to keep Cameron and like minded people in place, even if that means he will be the one jettisoned in order to save them.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I would have thought that Remain would try to get someone in who might plausibly be thought to speak for middle England.
I think they're trying to make sure no-one will turn on to watch the debate,
He put the country first. His sacrifice will be rewarded, in this life or the next one.
George Osborne, master strategist and true patriot
If Sunil were here, I'm sure we'd have some skit based on the scene from Red October where he scuttles the ship, and the first officer tells the captain he'll receive the Order of Lenin.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I would have thought that Remain would try to get someone in who might plausibly be thought to speak for middle England.
I think they're trying to make sure no-one will turn on to watch the debate,
@PolhomeEditor: Nigel Farage's latest poster defence: "Had [Jo Cox's death] not happened, I don't think we'd have had this kind of row." Wow. Just wow.
George Osborne's master strategist status confirmed yet again?
Only 27% believe Osborne's blackmail budget. Today he's called for a nicer, less divisive campaign - then compared Leavers with Nazis.
He's turned the knob up to 11 and snapped it off.
The more metro liberal wankery I see on the TV by journalists et al - the more it confirms to me that they've learned absolutely nothing about the concerns of those outside their very narrow bubble.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I would have thought that Remain would try to get someone in who might plausibly be thought to speak for middle England.
The vote will be won by labour voting remain, together with big votes in favour in London and Scotland so in my opinion the panel is perfectly targeted at the audience remain need to win over
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
Very strange. Are people in Scotland just not bothered?
Personally I feel it's best to keep a bit of distance between myself and the psychodrama of a neighbour. Though I have a vote in this referendum, I'm using the sensitivity, impartiality and discretion of no vote, no influence, low information PBers during the Indy campaign as a model of how to behave.
The lead article on the website of Der Spiegel at the moment is about fears that Britain will return to being the 'dirty man of Europe' if we vote Leave and return to the times when we didn't respect environmental standards and suffered from smog, oily beaches and unsafe tap water.
Just got a small booklet leaflet through the door from the SNP explaining why I should vote remain for a brighter future. Interesting because it is the first hand delivered leaflet from either side we have had (got a couple in the post). Just maybe the SNP are going to throw some of their weight behind Remain after all.
It may prove very useful in our household too. My wife finds herself unsure how to vote at an election for the first time in her life. She really likes Ruth and Cameron and was wavering towards remain but a picture of a smiling Nicola is worth a thousand words....
;-)
Has Gove's pledge to devolve repatriated fisheries, agriculture powers and Home Office migration quotas (for Scotland) to Holyrood in the event of Brexit cut through at all up there?
(99% sure it hasn't, which is a shame)
No. There has been no Leave campaign to talk of in Scotland at all (and not much remain one until now either).
One example, on Friday I drove to Aberdeen and back. In April/May the fields were full of large signs for the SNP, the Tories and even the odd Lib Dem. On Friday there was not a single one. Ir's like this is happening to someone else.
Scotland and REMAIN is an interesting question for the 3 vs 3 debates. It has about 8.5% of the votes and in the first 3 vs 3, REMAIN had 1/3 of its panel from Scotland. Now in the 2nd 3 vs 3 REMAIN go back and again have 1/3 from Scotland. REMAIN have not, for example chosen one of its 6 choices to be from the Midlands.
Yeah, but if you could have Ruth on your team you would wouldn't you? And there are no safe seats in this vote. Maximising turnout in Scotland is every bit as important for remain as maximising that vote in the midlands.
I'm not. She knows far more than any of us what it is like to live in an multinational superstate where the leaders are unelected and care not a whit about your countries culture and aspirations.
The Commission are elected by the European Parliament and the prime ministers.
Your point being? The Governor of the Bank of England is appointed by our Government - it doesn't mean the Bank is democratic. Ditto, many other public positions.
The Commission are appointed - that makes them an undemocratic form of government. They are the only body that can propose new laws or propose repealing existing laws. They cannot be turfed out by voters and are not continually thinking about the next election.
They are the Executive arm of the European institutions and therefore set much secondary legislation.
Yes, you can draw lines on a sheet of paper, and say that ultimately the individual voter in each country has an influence over their selection because they elect MPs who elect a national government, who appoint the Commission. But surely you must see how that makes the Commission remote from electorates.
There is a strong case that those carrying out judicial or technical roles should be appointed. But those in government should be elected. The Commission is much more than a Civil Service, it is the engine of European law. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic. It's sad we've reverted to this form of elite government, after all the progress over the centuries in spreading power to the people, imperfect though that progress was.
I'm not going to go back through it but you said she could justifiably be criticized for what she did in her life which referred to working for Oxfam.
I usually think that unike several of the right wing headbangers on here you are actually quite thoughtful but I have to say it ill behoves someone who went to Eton and then joined their father's banking business to criticize someone who with no advantages got to Cambridge and then went to work for Oxfam because YOU don't rate Oxfam as a charity.
I can assure you that if someone shoots you in the course of your work and anyone says 'well he was a banker' you can be certain I'll be the first to condemn them and it will be without reservation.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
One line of questioning for Boris will surely be based on the footage that emerged today of him extolling the virtues of the single market.
Salmond kicked the shit out of him in the little seen telegraph debate so he will probably be better prepared this tine round .
@PolhomeEditor: Nigel Farage's latest poster defence: "Had [Jo Cox's death] not happened, I don't think we'd have had this kind of row." Wow. Just wow.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I would have thought that Remain would try to get someone in who might plausibly be thought to speak for middle England.
Indeed. All those insulted as Little Englanders. Who would you pick?
The end of communism saw birth rates collapse in many countries.
Any hints as to what caused it? I guess I could look it up, but much easier to ask the doyens on here.
This is a good article that looks at the issue from the other end of the telescope - what it's like to live in a country with low fertility (Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in the world, which is bizarre for a largely Catholic country) and high emigration. It's not pretty.
Of course, birth rates have collapsed in a lot of countries. In China, the TFR is 0.7 in Shanghai province, and 0.8 in Macau and Beijing. Those are staggeringly low numbers. Essentially for three adults, you end up with only one child.
Singapore - despite some very aggressive pro-natal policies - also has a very low birth rate, and so does Japan (which hardly has any working wives).
Even Iran and Mexico have birth rates below replacement levels these days.
Edit to add: Mexico is still above replacement. Just. Iran is well below.
Edit to add 2: Holy Crap. Singapore is down at 0.8 too.
Bangladesh birth rates have dropped from 6 in the '70s to 2.1 now. From 2030, the population will actually fall. It's per capita income [ disputed ] is half of India's but people particularly women live 6 years longer.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I would have thought that Remain would try to get someone in who might plausibly be thought to speak for middle England.
The vote will be won by labour voting remain, together with big votes in favour in London and Scotland so in my opinion the panel is perfectly targeted at the audience remain need to win over
In the same way the Scottish referendum was "once in a generation".
*slightly innocent face*
Um, what? If the SindyRef had been for separation, it wouldn't really have been reversed, would it (and I do note that the economic warnings ("Project Fear") seem to have been, if anything, understated - given what's happened with oil prices since.
Unless you're saying that while Leave is forever, if we do vote Remain, we might get another chance relatively soon?
I'm not. She knows far more than any of us what it is like to live in an multinational superstate where the leaders are unelected and care not a whit about your countries culture and aspirations.
The Commission are elected by the European Parliament and the prime ministers.
Your point being? The Governor of the Bank of England is appointed by our Government - it doesn't mean the Bank is democratic. Ditto, many other public positions.
The Commission are appointed - that makes them an undemocratic form of government. They are the only body that can propose new laws or propose repealing existing laws. They cannot be turfed out by voters and are not continually thinking about the next election.
HM Government is also appointed, by a monarch I might add. The main difference is that the Commission is elected for a fixed term not dependent on the confidence of the legislature, much like the US presidency, but hardly unelected or undemocratic.
In the same way the Scottish referendum was "once in a generation".
*slightly innocent face*
Um, what? If the SindyRef had been for separation, it wouldn't really have been reversed, would it (and I do note that the economic warnings ("Project Fear") seem to have been, if anything, understated - given what's happened with oil prices since.
Unless you're saying that while Leave is forever, if we do vote Remain, we might get another chance relatively soon?
At the very least there will be plenty of people arguing for it.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I would have thought that Remain would try to get someone in who might plausibly be thought to speak for middle England.
The vote will be won by labour voting remain, together with big votes in favour in London and Scotland so in my opinion the panel is perfectly targeted at the audience remain need to win over
6m voters London and Scotland 24m voters the rest
And Francis O'Grady will target the labour voters in the 24 million rest
The lead article on the website of Der Spiegel at the moment is about fears that Britain will return to being the 'dirty man of Europe' if we vote Leave and return to the times when we didn't respect environmental standards and suffered from smog, oily beaches and unsafe tap water.
Yep, I can't wait to leave the EU and crank up the coal fire again.
I think I get where they're coming from in a theoretical sense. They think that governments drive people's behaviour. I think it's a hell of a lot more complicated than that. Social mores and aspirations change in the population first, then governments catch up.
As to their overall claim...I don't buy it. The UK's first Clean Air Act was in 1956. Britain was filthy more because we were impoverished (few people realise how much WW2 cost the UK. We were skint) , not because we didn't care about the environment.
The Final Wembley debate will not be as easy a win for leave as their ITV one was - Boris, Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom are up against a more formidable line up of Sadiq Khan, Francis O'Grady and Ruth Davidson. It will be very interesting but I think Sadiq Khan will get much the better of Boris. However, as with everything in this campaign only a few more days to 'put up' with it
I would have thought that Remain would try to get someone in who might plausibly be thought to speak for middle England.
Indeed. All those insulted as Little Englanders. Who would you pick?
To be fair those who feel insulted will already be voting leave
Unless you're saying that while Leave is forever, if we do vote Remain, we might get another chance relatively soon?
Leave is indeed forever, and in a FPTP election you don't even need 50% of the electorate to elect a government with a thumping majority on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU, so at worst we get the chance to express a new opinion every 5 years.
Comments
The more the pinkos bleat and try to close down free speech, the more people will realise "This is probably our LAST chance to change and avert disaster."
So please keep bleating, pinkos.
What's depressed me most about the campaign is that Remain doesn't want to talk about immigration and Leave won't talk about the nuances of immigration. It's just Racist! vs Be Afraid!
There's nothing wrong with immigration. We've been welcoming people here for centuries, beginning with the Hugenots in the 18th century.
( There was a lovely radio 4 program a couple of years ago about the long tradition of Liverpool girls marrying Chinese mariners (they were seen as more reliable and faithful than the local men).
Our problem is the pace of change and the rate of increase. There is no reason to believe Cameron's measures will be effective.
That means we will have around 4 million extra people (plus the natural growth in the population) by 2030. Remain just won't engage with that. It will require welfare reform, planning reform, health reform. None of that is on the agenda.
Hence...depression.
Getting Andromeda? I'm in two minds about it. I like the series but Bioware's approach to DLC is something that's increasingly annoying me.
Mr. Quidder, surely you already knew of her sound judgement and good taste?
The problem for REMAIN (and their friends in the media) is that they keep wanting to poke at the Farge poster and in doing so they reintroduce the immigration issue into the debate. The more they pour scorn on it (rightly) the more they talk about immigration and how they are trying to shut down concerns on immigration. These are basic campaigning errors. Farage's poster should be regarded as a dead cat that draws in the discussion to the terrible image of the dead cat.
There's probably two issues behind this. After the Indyref campaign there is a huge swathe of Scotland which simply does not believe economic threats, so Leaving does not hold any fear (which is the prime market for Remain voters). By the same token, Scotland needs more migrants so the Leave case has limited traction as well.
UK Westminster politicians are responsive to public opinion, even between elections. Take the continued stream of policy u-turns the Tory Government has made over the last 12 months (tax credits, academies, etc.). This reflects the fact that the Chancellor has to come to the House of Commons to deliver his budget, that there is weekly PMQs, grillings from broadcast journalists, a vibrant daily national press, and a myriad of pressure groups.
In short, there is a UK political culture and conversation.
These things simply do not exist at a European level, or exist in a much more attenuated fashion.
The UK political system is far from perfect. But it is democratically much healthier than the EU one, where there is virtually no public debate about the many decisions those institutions are taking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Poland
It does feel a bit like its not our fight. I expect we'll turn up on Thursday, but most of the chat amongst friends and family shows our heart isn't really in it.
I find their stuff so good that unless its widely reported the game is, against form, utter shite, I'm buying it. I guess that makes me part of the problem, crappy DLC approaches and other business practices, but oh well - at least I've never used micro transactions.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/744477368773812226
Also all of the elected leaders are for In so there is no one to argue with. An ex MP like Tom Harris is about the best Leave can come up with.
Remain will win this Thursday, but it will be a great moral defeat. I did not want to win like this.
@patrick_kidd: I wish Priti Patel would take back control of the letter G in participles. Campaignin', votin', workin' etc. It's very irritatin'
Mass Effect's been more consistent in style, which I think has helped it. But, as I say, DLC can be a bugger. Both ME3 and DAI had DLC that should've, I think, been in the main game.
Lots of games coming out fairly soon. Got limited time/money, so not sure precisely what I'll get. Skyrim would've been obvious were it not for the piss-taking price tag. May get XCOM 2 in September.
I asked why, she said because England should be English and because countries like Estonia, Poland etc. have been damaged by their youngsters coming here.
Despite my bulging list of unfinished or unplayed games, I was thinking of replaying both the DA series and Mass Effect series - so that's *calculates* about 250 hours.
Mind you, CD Projekt Red have been doing things pretty nicely. Reminds me, I may actually buy The Witcher 3's DLC.
Wonder how all the lefty remainers will feel if the ECHR /ECJ has a rather more conservative tone in about 20 years and decides to ban abortion over the head of our elected parliament?
http://neweasterneurope.eu/articles-and-commentary/1687-poland-immigration-or-stagnation
Which is my other general point about mass immigration. We benefit, so fuck the source country. We are just narcissistic, selfish c*nts.
Benjamin Disraeli, with the nickname "Dizzy Rascal", is top of the list.
They really have this whole european arrangement beautifully lined up in their favour.
George Osborne, master strategist and true patriot
FPTP ensures that the government only has to be responsive to a tiny slice of public opinion living in marginal constituencies.
Singapore - despite some very aggressive pro-natal policies - also has a very low birth rate, and so does Japan (which hardly has any working wives).
Even Iran and Mexico have birth rates below replacement levels these days.
Edit to add: Mexico is still above replacement. Just. Iran is well below.
Edit to add 2: Holy Crap. Singapore is down at 0.8 too.
Now a part of me thinks he really is just super loyal - he'll take the hits to keep Cameron and like minded people in place, even if that means he will be the one jettisoned in order to save them.
Could be wrong, of course.
I assume the cannon fodder includes many a PBer? Pushing against an open door, there.
He's turned the knob up to 11 and snapped it off.
The more metro liberal wankery I see on the TV by journalists et al - the more it confirms to me that they've learned absolutely nothing about the concerns of those outside their very narrow bubble.
Though I have a vote in this referendum, I'm using the sensitivity, impartiality and discretion of no vote, no influence, low information PBers during the Indy campaign as a model of how to behave.
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/brexit-briten-fuerchten-wachsende-umweltverschmutzung-nach-eu-austritt-a-1098138.html
Remember, the race start is 2pm, covered live by Channel 4.
The Commission are appointed - that makes them an undemocratic form of government. They are the only body that can propose new laws or propose repealing existing laws. They cannot be turfed out by voters and are not continually thinking about the next election.
They are the Executive arm of the European institutions and therefore set much secondary legislation.
Yes, you can draw lines on a sheet of paper, and say that ultimately the individual voter in each country has an influence over their selection because they elect MPs who elect a national government, who appoint the Commission. But surely you must see how that makes the Commission remote from electorates.
There is a strong case that those carrying out judicial or technical roles should be appointed. But those in government should be elected. The Commission is much more than a Civil Service, it is the engine of European law. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic. It's sad we've reverted to this form of elite government, after all the progress over the centuries in spreading power to the people, imperfect though that progress was.
DAVID CAMERON 18 Jun 2016, 9:59pm"
The DT lets Dave talk about his imminent career prospects..
24m voters the rest
If the SindyRef had been for separation, it wouldn't really have been reversed, would it (and I do note that the economic warnings ("Project Fear") seem to have been, if anything, understated - given what's happened with oil prices since.
Unless you're saying that while Leave is forever, if we do vote Remain, we might get another chance relatively soon?
Good pivot...
I think I get where they're coming from in a theoretical sense. They think that governments drive people's behaviour. I think it's a hell of a lot more complicated than that. Social mores and aspirations change in the population first, then governments catch up.
As to their overall claim...I don't buy it. The UK's first Clean Air Act was in 1956. Britain was filthy more because we were impoverished (few people realise how much WW2 cost the UK. We were skint) , not because we didn't care about the environment.
Anyone who isn't sure should vote Remain.