Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
Southam's short post illustrates a basic problem. I've no doubt that if you have an unpopular view it's best to change the subject. That's "shifty". Or you can say what you think and risk losing votes. Sometimes, you'll persuade someone, and change the paradigm a little instead of pretending to agree with whatever people want.
Me, I'm tired of evasion. What happened to the idea that democracy involved politicians explaining what they think honestly and voters choosing what they want?
It never existed except in dreams, since in the real world people explain things poorly or misunderstand them, voters misinterpret it or don't listen to it, and so on and so forth. Additionally, since a prospectus is put forward by a party to which members nominally ascribe as, whatever their flaws with it they think it the best path for the country, 'evasion' even if just by not talking about some things as they harm that prospectus, is a trade off with total honesty that has always happened.
How points are presented and which arguments are chosen to emphasise and which ones to downplay has always mattered.
If we want totally honest leaders who never evade a point, we may as well not have parties at all, as it seems to me the whole point of a party is you will vote and support some things you don't believe or care about in pursuit of a wider objective, and rarely if ever admit to. Making that trade off with your own beliefs.
I was about to post saying something very similar. Of course I would go further and say that I would welcome the collapse of the party system. I want representatives who are immune to party threats and blandishments.
The other problem in something like the EU debate is that the politicians know the public all too well. So the Remain side know that if they are honest and admit that the direction of travel for the EU is a federal state then the overwhelming majority would reject it. At the same time the Leave side know that if they admit there is great uncertainty and some probable economic impact from withdrawal they will also lose votes. No one can afford to lose votes on either side so they paper over the cracks in their arguments and pretend the future is bright.
Personally I know that the future I want is basically unattainable as most of the public would never accept it. That knowledge keeps me from doing anything really stupid like standing for a political position.
Incidentally, an acquaintance says that the spending limit rules allow the campaigns to set up as many organisations as they like with a £700K spending limit each, and the Brexit side especially have evaded it by setting up seven separate organisations with identical objectives to do it. I've not looked into this aspect, but is it correct, and has Remain done the same?
Incidentally, an acquaintance says that the spending limit rules allow the campaigns to set up as many organisations as they like with a £700K spending limit each, and the Brexit side especially have evaded it by setting up seven separate organisations with identical objectives to do it. I've not looked into this aspect, but is it correct, and has Remain done the same?
Yes. As long as those groups do not have linked organisation. And yes the Remain side have done the same.
I notice that Corbyn couldn't resist a dig at the EU over Greece. Not sure it will make much difference, but you won't hear many others make the point.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
The best arguments for Remain that I've seen were made by a young Canadian girl who had been to two European Universities....
........who talked about a unique community of twenty eight nations all with their own culture and language where young people could move freely with shared values of democracy and human rights forming a community unique in the world.
Sorry, but that is just dewy eyed idealistic sentimental claptrap.
Vapid Bilge is an understatement
I'd rather Roger's sentimentalism than the likes of yourself, Plato, GeoffM, MikeM and your ilk who cheered on the terrible, and deeply distressing post of Lowlander yesterday.
You do realise you misunderstood Lowlander's Mum's position?
The manner of someone's death, no matter how tragic, does not obviate what they did in life
She worked for a charity. Get a grip Charles!
Oxfam is an NGO - it has a very different characteristic to a charity (regardless of the legal form).
MERLIN (which we helped in the early days) was partially set up due to the failings of Oxfam (among others).
Don't forget that my teams reviews and meets with 600+ charities a year, so we have some fairly developed ideas on the sector
Enough of this mealy mouthed crap. What did Jo Cox do wrong?
What is it with Leavers and their inability to take criticism or possess a sense of humour
@MichaelLCrick: Vote Leave have banned me from today's Boris Johnson rally in London, because, says aide Robert Oxley, I "took the piss" at past events
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Bullshit ! She is the Edgbaston MP and has all along played her cards that way to ensure just Right-of-centre people vote for her. I suppose she has to, to win.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
TSE has become a poor man's Sion Simon. An accolyte of mandelson, of spin and of the progressive wing of the party. A nuConservative? Will this become a post to bookmark and store to re-read time and time again?
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
Farage isn't even in Parliament!
He can be ennobled. Perhaps of the extraterritorial barony of Brussels?
What is it with Leavers and their inability to take criticism or possess a sense of humour
@MichaelLCrick: Vote Leave have banned me from today's Boris Johnson rally in London, because, says aide Robert Oxley, I "took the piss" at past events
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
Farage isn't even in Parliament!
Prime Minister Boris Johnson can appoint him to The House of Lords.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Bullshit ! She is the Edgbaston MP and has all along played her cards that way to ensure just Right-of-centre people vote for her. I suppose she has to, to win.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
TSE has become a poor man's Sion Simon. A post to bookmark and store to re-read time and time again?
What is it with Leavers and their inability to take criticism or possess a sense of humour
@MichaelLCrick: Vote Leave have banned me from today's Boris Johnson rally in London, because, says aide Robert Oxley, I "took the piss" at past events
Not sure if it's a journalist's job to take the piss at events if they are trying to be impartial.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
TSE has become a poor man's Sion Simon. An accolyte of mandelson, of spin and of the progressive wing of the party. A nuConservative? Will this become a post to bookmark and store to re-read time and time again?
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
The only thing that ever supported that crazy notion was Farage's ego.
Standing in front of that THAT poster - speaking for UKIP and UKIP alone - ensured he was always going to be ostracised.
What is it with Leavers and their inability to take criticism or possess a sense of humour
@MichaelLCrick: Vote Leave have banned me from today's Boris Johnson rally in London, because, says aide Robert Oxley, I "took the piss" at past events
Not sure if it's a journalist's job to take the piss at events if they are trying to be impartial.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Bullshit ! She is the Edgbaston MP and has all along played her cards that way to ensure just Right-of-centre people vote for her. I suppose she has to, to win.
I am sure she is a nice person otherwise.
She is a Red Tory, after all.
Gisela Stuart has actually worked with and lectured on the EU. She has a far far better grasp of the EU than Osborne. A real expert, instead of our current Foreign Office ministers.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
"The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO." But younger voters are more in favour of the EU, so as time passes it becomes less likely that we will leave.
Somehow, after last night's polls, much of the excitement and uncertainty has disappeared from the contest, evidenced by the fact that we've so far seen 220+ posts on this thread. Of late, we'd have seen twice that number by now. Shame .... we are all so driven by polls these days, instead of by the underlying subject matter.
Both Cameron/Osborne are playing the same lines this morning they were last week, and the week before: attacking Gove/Boris (personally on the latter) the economy, and FarageFarageFarageFarageFarageFarageFarageFarageFarageFarageFarage. With a little bit of heart appeal to the values of the murdered MP mixed in there, as well, I'm afraid.
That tells you the data shows it is still close.
The main disadvantage for Leave is the events of the last few days probably mean they can no longer go big on immigration, but that won't stop Remain cranking up the amp (until it breaks) on the economy.
Leave can and will be banging away on Immigration, in the chaos of uncertainty it's their best bet. Not only that but the Cox effect - if one can call it that without getting shouted down - is fast disappearing; in fact it's now proving counter productive for the Remain side
My bet is that by Monday/Tuesday the polls will show Leave firmly in the lead as we all go down the straight, to coin a racing parlance.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Bullshit ! She is the Edgbaston MP and has all along played her cards that way to ensure just Right-of-centre people vote for her. I suppose she has to, to win.
I am sure she is a nice person otherwise.
She is a Red Tory, after all.
Gisela Stuart has actually worked with and lectured on the EU. She has a far far better grasp of the EU than Osborne. A real expert, instead of our current Foreign Office ministers.
Yeah, I quite rate her. I find it hard to believe she would just chose her views to maximise her chance of being elected.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
TSE has become a poor man's Sion Simon. A post to bookmark and store to re-read time and time again?
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Bullshit ! She is the Edgbaston MP and has all along played her cards that way to ensure just Right-of-centre people vote for her. I suppose she has to, to win.
I am sure she is a nice person otherwise.
Nonsense, Birmingham Edgbaston is a very prosperous constituency that almost certainly inclines Remain.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
Any tangential references to AV? Perhaps for partnering in said orgies?
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
TSE has become a poor man's Sion Simon. A post to bookmark and store to re-read time and time again?
Hmm, I see it more as if Cameron wins, they'll be able to get back to ignoring all the issues highlighted in John Mann's shorts.
Problems for the dispossessed WWC in the Labour heartlands? Fuck 'em, they don't count.
If Remain wins, I suspect UKIP will see lots of new voters. They may get me too.
As it stands I could never vote UKIP. It's a movement rather than a party. Plus Farage, bleh. He does have some good ideas, but in my view, thinks (like a lot of politicians) that the electorate are stupid. Hence the obnoxious dog whistling.
Labour have to come to their senses. Not optimistic . Never mind, votes are overrated. I have family, dogs, garden, voluntary work. It's enough.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
"The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO." But younger voters are more in favour of the EU, so as time passes it becomes less likely that we will leave.
Or they become more Eurosceptic as they get older.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
Any tangential references to AV? Perhaps for partnering in said orgies?
Just to add re. Gisela Stuart. Her remarkable against the tide retention of her seat is down to the fact that while her constituents don't necessarily agree with all her positions, they respect her integrity and her hard work.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Bullshit ! She is the Edgbaston MP and has all along played her cards that way to ensure just Right-of-centre people vote for her. I suppose she has to, to win.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
Any tangential references to AV? Perhaps for partnering in said orgies?
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
TSE has become a poor man's Sion Simon. A post to bookmark and store to re-read time and time again?
Hmm, I see it more as if Cameron wins, they'll be able to get back to ignoring all the issues highlighted in John Mann's shorts.
Problems for the dispossessed WWC in the Labour heartlands? Fuck 'em, they don't count.
If Remain wins, I suspect UKIP will see lots of new voters. They may get me too.
As it stands I could never vote UKIP. It's a movement rather than a party. Plus Farage, bleh. He does have some good ideas, but in my view, thinks (like a lot of politicians) that the electorate are stupid. Hence the obnoxious dog whistling.
Labour have to come to their senses. Not optimistic . Never mind, votes are overrated. I have family, dogs, garden, voluntary work. It's enough.
Twice before I've been politically homeless - and voted LD or OMRLP - Kippers are the biggest protest party if we Remain. I can't not vote.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
Any tangential references to AV? Perhaps for partnering in said orgies?
titters....
We're all done for AV related threads this year.
I have no words
Actually I might work in a reference to AV into the afternoon thread.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Bullshit ! She is the Edgbaston MP and has all along played her cards that way to ensure just Right-of-centre people vote for her. I suppose she has to, to win.
I am sure she is a nice person otherwise.
Nonsense, Birmingham Edgbaston is a very prosperous constituency that almost certainly inclines Remain.
Certainly would be if the students at Brum Uni could be bothered to vote :-)
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
TSE has become a poor man's Sion Simon. A post to bookmark and store to re-read time and time again?
Hmm, I see it more as if Cameron wins, they'll be able to get back to ignoring all the issues highlighted in John Mann's shorts.
Problems for the dispossessed WWC in the Labour heartlands? Fuck 'em, they don't count.
If Remain wins, I suspect UKIP will see lots of new voters. They may get me too.
As it stands I could never vote UKIP. It's a movement rather than a party. Plus Farage, bleh. He does have some good ideas, but in my view, thinks (like a lot of politicians) that the electorate are stupid. Hence the obnoxious dog whistling.
Labour have to come to their senses. Not optimistic . Never mind, votes are overrated. I have family, dogs, garden, voluntary work. It's enough.
Twice before I've been politically homeless - and voted LD or OMRLP - Kippers are the biggest protest party if we Remain. I can't not vote.
The only realistic route out is through the Tories with a Leave PM.
Just to add re. Gisela Stuart. Her remarkable against the tide retention of her seat is down to the fact that while her constituents don't necessarily agree with all her positions, they respect her integrity and her hard work.
I wonder if a 'post-leave' govt (yes I am dreaming) could do a Gordo 'of all the talents' move and invite people like Gisela Stewart into Government.
Thanks cyclefree. Even if we do vote remain, I suspect the EU will view us with suspicion, and our influence will be diminished somewhat (can you imagine a UK EU president?)
The ending of our EU membership is now a matter of when, not if, IMHO.
But if we do vote Remain, I expect we're in for a rather unpleasant few years of membership.
And, continued schism within the Conservative party.
It will be interesting to see how all parties cast themselves.
I now feel politically far closer to Gisela Stuart than I do George Osborne, for example.
She will be one of the few people on either side to come out of this with any credit.
Bullshit ! She is the Edgbaston MP and has all along played her cards that way to ensure just Right-of-centre people vote for her. I suppose she has to, to win.
I am sure she is a nice person otherwise.
Nonsense, Birmingham Edgbaston is a very prosperous constituency that almost certainly inclines Remain.
Certainly would be if the students at Brum Uni could be bothered to vote :-)
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
That was defo one of the more interesting divorce papers that got unsealed. Jeri Ryan is certainly a loss to the hot wife lifestyle. *goes for a lie down in a darkened room*
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
Any tangential references to AV? Perhaps for partnering in said orgies?
titters....
We're all done for AV related threads this year.
I have no words
Actually I might work in a reference to AV into the afternoon thread.
From no AV 'til next year to AV in the next thread in 5 mins???
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
He did for once get the Chancellor recently and let Osborne hang himself with the "make it up as you go" approach to the turkey policy.
For the Leave campaign perhaps the one thing that they need to pay attention to in the final days comes in an article by Tristram Hunt in the Sunday Times.
"The only credible argument for Brexit - a belief in untrammeled parliamentary sovereignty-retains a powerful draw on public loyalty. I have found questions on of democracy and accountability, federalism and nationhood as vocal on the streets of Stoke as in any Westminster think tank'
Its that simple, immigration is in effect a subset of this wider issue. Yet the Brexit campaign, to my eyes at least, hasn't gone after the singular sovereignty message as much as it should.
The concern over the poll figures that I see is that yet again issues that do drive some peoples' choices, are things they may feel slightly reluctant to express vocally, immigration being the obvious one. Being openly expressive about such things can get you branded as a racist, ignorant or whatever. I suspect, plenty out there who are going to use the privacy of the ballot box to express it and that may tip things.
OT, and I know I must be getting old, but would it have killed Steve Hilton to have worn a suit? Jeans, trainers and bracelets. He's like a walking mid-life crisis.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
That was defo one of the more interesting divorce papers that got unsealed. Jeri Ryan is certainly a loss to the hot wife lifestyle. *goes for a lie down in a darkened room*
Honestly, how stupid was her husband? You're married to one of the hottest women in the world, and you want to sleep with other women and watch other men have sex with her?
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
Any tangential references to AV? Perhaps for partnering in said orgies?
titters....
We're all done for AV related threads this year.
I have no words
Actually I might work in a reference to AV into the afternoon thread.
From no AV 'til next year to AV in the next thread in 5 mins???
Does contain a reference to Batman and Superman too.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
He did for once get the Chancellor recently and let Osborne hang himself with the "make it up as you go" approach to the turkey policy.
God, I'm really not doing PB Tory infallibility any favours this morning. How could I forget the interview last week?
@Cyclefree Great lead article as usual but the section on economics is Corbynesque in its ability to slip in a load of negatives while ostensibly making a positive case.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
He did for once get the Chancellor recently and let Osborne hang himself with the "make it up as you go" approach to the turkey policy.
God, I'm really not doing PB Tory infallibility any favours this morning. How could I forget the interview last week?
I noticed the polls turned in Remain's favour whilst you were in the air, any chance of you being in the air Thursday/Friday?
Well, that's a mistake I will never make again. Peston is not going on my essential viewing list. In fact, that's the last time I'll watch that particular programme. Everything about it is abysmal.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
He did for once get the Chancellor recently and let Osborne hang himself with the "make it up as you go" approach to the turkey policy.
God, I'm really not doing PB Tory infallibility any favours this morning. How could I forget the interview last week?
I noticed the polls turned in Remain's favour whilst you were in the air, any chance of you being in the air Thursday/Friday?
Not until Tuesday after next I am afraid (expect a Tory 40%er)
On the next thread. Any chance of a Eurovision/ABBA reference too?
Good news for LEAVE, Osborne's on the Peston show. Bad news is that very few will watch it.
Osborne has finally managed to frame the debate in a way that allows remain to win. His "emergency budget" nonsense was economic crap but political genius. All of the discussion of what to do with the extra £350m (I know, I know) was swept away almost instantly and has not been heard of since.
Framing the debate is what the really skilled political operators do. Mandelson did it for Blair and Osborne is his unchallenged successor. Like Mandelson he is not nice or likeable but boy, is he effective.
What is it with Leavers and their inability to take criticism or possess a sense of humour
@MichaelLCrick: Vote Leave have banned me from today's Boris Johnson rally in London, because, says aide Robert Oxley, I "took the piss" at past events
Not sure if it's a journalist's job to take the piss at events if they are trying to be impartial.
Did he, in fact, take the piss though? That seems to be the the interpretation of VoteLeave, but for all I know they are being sensitive little prisses.
What I do know is that I'm more inclined to think journalists should be included even if they take they piss, than thinking its a good idea to leave the judgement as to whether piss has indeed been taken by the politicians themselves.
It sure as sh*t is not going to help people be more favourable to them in future. And of course is self fulfilling - X took the piss out of us and is impartial, because we banned them from an event for taking the piss out of us and being impartial.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
You mean that interview with Osborne, what 10 days ago, was a figment of my vivid imagination?
With the possible exception of Northern Ireland, the weather forecast indicates a generally warm dry day with some clouds.
If this proves to be correct, then it will possibly nudge the turnout up by a couple of percentage points, compared with what might have been the case otherwise.
When the betting markets first opened the spread for turnout was around 60% - 61%, it's now 69% - 70% and rising.
What is it with Leavers and their inability to take criticism or possess a sense of humour
@MichaelLCrick: Vote Leave have banned me from today's Boris Johnson rally in London, because, says aide Robert Oxley, I "took the piss" at past events
Not sure if it's a journalist's job to take the piss at events if they are trying to be impartial.
Did he, in fact, take the piss though? That seems to be the the interpretation of VoteLeave, but for all I know they are being sensitive little prisses.
What I do know is that I'm more inclined to think journalists should be included even if they take they piss, than thinking its a good idea to leave the judgement as to whether piss has indeed been taken by the politicians themselves.
It sure as sh*t is not going to help people be more favourable to them in future. And of course is self fulfilling - X took the piss out of us and is impartial, because we banned them from an event for taking the piss out of us and being impartial.
Yes, to be fair to Crick I was taking the aide at his word. Journalists not from the BBC probably have less of a need to be impartial, but I still think they should at least try.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
That was defo one of the more interesting divorce papers that got unsealed. Jeri Ryan is certainly a loss to the hot wife lifestyle. *goes for a lie down in a darkened room*
Honestly, how stupid was her husband? You're married to one of the hottest women in the world, and you want to sleep with other women and watch other men have sex with her?
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
I'm struggling to think of a top flight ITV politics show since Weekend World.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
You mean that interview with Osborne, what 10 days ago, was a figment of my vivid imagination?
See my apology in a later post. I am very much ashamed
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
And the chances of a Farage peerage with a REMAIN victory must be slimmer than me ending up on a desert island with Jeri Ryan.
I've written a thread about Jeri Ryan and hope it to publish it this summer.
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
That was defo one of the more interesting divorce papers that got unsealed. Jeri Ryan is certainly a loss to the hot wife lifestyle. *goes for a lie down in a darkened room*
Honestly, how stupid was her husband? You're married to one of the hottest women in the world, and you want to sleep with other women and watch other men have sex with her?
Numpty!
Stupid to an unimaginable degree. Goes to show how some blokes just don't know when they're well off.
The best arguments for Remain that I've seen were made by a young Canadian girl who had been to two European Universities....
........who talked about a unique community of twenty eight nations all with their own culture and language where young people could move freely with shared values of democracy and human rights forming a community unique in the world.
Sorry, but that is just dewy eyed idealistic sentimental claptrap.
Vapid Bilge is an understatement
I'd rather Roger's sentimentalism than the likes of yourself, Plato, GeoffM, MikeM and your ilk who cheered on the terrible, and deeply distressing post of Lowlander yesterday.
You do realise you misunderstood Lowlander's Mum's position?
The manner of someone's death, no matter how tragic, does not obviate what they did in life
She worked for a charity. Get a grip Charles!
Oxfam is an NGO - it has a very different characteristic to a charity (regardless of the legal form).
MERLIN (which we helped in the early days) was partially set up due to the failings of Oxfam (among others).
Don't forget that my teams reviews and meets with 600+ charities a year, so we have some fairly developed ideas on the sector
Enough of this mealy mouthed crap. What did Jo Cox do wrong?
Frankly I had never heard of Jo Cox before her murder, so I don't know if she specifically did anything wrong and certainly nothing (before you misinterpret my comments) that could justify, in any way whatsover, her untimely death.
But equally - and unrelated to her - there is a group of people who make a professional career out of working for NGOs and charities. Organisations such as a Oxfam - a particularly bad offender - pay huge amounts to their senior staff and have bloated cost structures rather than focusing of getting money to the front end. Similarly they spend vast amount on professional fundraising and happily suck up as much of the airtime and charitable resources available rather than focusing on which groups would tackle specific problems best. Many of those individuals see a revolving door between politics and the third sector* and hence politicise the charity's mission.
Fundamentally, charity should be charity, business should be business and politics should be about public service
* in the way that too many Tories see a revolving door between certain types of business and politics, a trend which I am equally critical of
No one can doubt The Sunil on Sunday's shock and dismay at the murder of Jo Cox last week. And no one can possibly justify her killing either, whether or not the motive was political. But as the case is now sub judice, we will leave the judge and jury to decide exactly what the motive was, and what was heard and what was seen by eyewitnesses on that tragic day.
But we would like to remind our fans and readers that Mr. Mair is no more representative of the Brexiteers than Mr. Mateen in Orlando is representative of Muslims. Just because one lone nutter within a particular political or religious group carries out a heinous, barbaric assault against democracy and freedom, it doesn't mean we have to tar all members of the group with the same brush. We hope you will agree with us on that point at least!
For that reason, we urge all our fans and readers to take stock of poor Ms Cox's murder, by all means, but not to let that affect how they will vote this coming Thursday. Try not to lose sight of the bigger picture - our place in or out of Europe. If you happen to support the REMAIN side, fair play to you, sirs and madams! We will heartily disagree with you, but we will support your right to vote REMAIN without being branded unpatriotic. But we for our part still recommend a LEAVE vote, for the following reasons:
* Democracy - think about whether REMAINING or LEAVING will be helpful or a hindrance to the democratic process
* Sovereignty - think about how we will be able to pass laws affecting life and business in the UK
* Money - think about our NET £8.5 billion contribution (2015 figures) to the EU. Remember, this figure EXCLUDES any money the EU contributes back to us for regional development!
* Immigration - think about how EU citizens have a built-in advantage about moving here over non-EU citizens
* And finally, and perhaps most importantly: Believe in BRITAIN! Be LEAVE!
thank you!
The Sunil on Sunday Editorial Team
Lord Sunil (proprietor and headline-finder pursuivant) Austin Allegra (politics) Clair Fix (model... trains) Larry Gineker (sports) Mystic Smeg (clairvoyance) Mark Commode (films)
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
He did for once get the Chancellor recently and let Osborne hang himself with the "make it up as you go" approach to the turkey policy.
God, I'm really not doing PB Tory infallibility any favours this morning. How could I forget the interview last week?
Yes sorry, I did not meant to be blunt, it was a further nail in Osborne's career which he and his advisors blindly ignore.
The best thing they could all do with that poster is shut up about it. All banging on about it does is keep the subject on immigration.
I actually want a referendum on EU not immigration.
What is better, a nasty right wing but democratic government that the electorate can turf out every five years or a progressive left wing government that nobody in the UK can turf out, even if in the future it becomes far more nasty and right wing than Farage has ever dreamt of?
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time on Newsnight etc. Also very comfortable in challenging people with power and money. Often hard to trace his political views as for example he had a paper friendly to Thatcher at the start that by the end was more hostile.
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
He did for once get the Chancellor recently and let Osborne hang himself with the "make it up as you go" approach to the turkey policy.
God, I'm really not doing PB Tory infallibility any favours this morning. How could I forget the interview last week?
Yes sorry, I did not meant to be blunt, it was a further nail in Osborne's career which he and his advisors blindly ignore.
No need for apologies, you weren't being blunt. Rather, I was being an idiot
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
Peston is quite simply the worst political interviewer that I have ever heard. He is dreadful.
I'm sure the BBC are happy to be rid of him.
If only they'd had the same fortune to lose Marr to a competitor. So much of the senior political journalist class is filled by men (predominantly) who's sole recommendation is name recognition.
Well, Kuenssberg's career suggests she may end on the Sunday morning sofas.
The best at the BBC is Andrew Neil. He has an Editor's attention to detail from his time in Newspapers and the Economist. He has the practice of interviewing going back to his time
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist. Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully). Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act. As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Yes, Andrew Neil is definitely the greatest. You can tell because he never gets to interview the PM/Chancellor.
You mean that interview with Osborne, what 10 days ago, was a figment of my vivid imagination?
For the Leave campaign perhaps the one thing that they need to pay attention to in the final days comes in an article by Tristram Hunt in the Sunday Times.
"The only credible argument for Brexit - a belief in untrammeled parliamentary sovereignty-retains a powerful draw on public loyalty. I have found questions on of democracy and accountability, federalism and nationhood as vocal on the streets of Stoke as in any Westminster think tank'
Its that simple, immigration is in effect a subset of this wider issue. Yet the Brexit campaign, to my eyes at least, hasn't gone after the singular sovereignty message as much as it should.
The concern over the poll figures that I see is that yet again issues that do drive some peoples' choices, are things they may feel slightly reluctant to express vocally, immigration being the obvious one. Being openly expressive about such things can get you branded as a racist, ignorant or whatever. I suspect, plenty out there who are going to use the privacy of the ballot box to express it and that may tip things.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
Farage isn't even in Parliament!
Prime Minister Boris Johnson can appoint him to The House of Lords.
UKIP won 4 million votes at the last election. Shouldn't they be represented in the House of Lords?
It's remarkable just how closely the EU Referendum follows the pattern of the Scottish Referendum. As the Remain side gets ever more panicked and their pliant media abandon all attempts at impartiality. With this one, the media are not universally backing the status quo but the TV coverage this morning is so clearly biased that even if Remain wins the sense among Leave will, like in Scotland, seem to ensure continued bitterness.
The use of Mordaunt and Cooper was so similar to almost every television piece leading up to the Scottish vote. One side is invited to attack the other, the other side only gets the chance to defend itself and never state their own case, then the first side is again asked to finish with an attack. In effect all parts of the debate now concern attacks by Remain on Leave.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
TSE has become a poor man's Sion Simon. A post to bookmark and store to re-read time and time again?
Hmm, I see it more as if Cameron wins, they'll be able to get back to ignoring all the issues highlighted in John Mann's shorts.
Problems for the dispossessed WWC in the Labour heartlands? Fuck 'em, they don't count.
If Remain wins, I suspect UKIP will see lots of new voters. They may get me too.
Maybe but UKIP are essentially are a party that prey on people's fears and fan the flames of hatred. Cameron was right when he called them "loons, fruitcakes and closet rascists". In my opinion he was being kind - I would call them BNP in suits.
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
Farage isn't even in Parliament!
Prime Minister Boris Johnson can appoint him to The House of Lords.
UKIP won 4 million votes at the last election. Shouldn't they be represented in the House of Lords?
Are there any stats on party affiliation for the excluded hereditaries?
Leave at 3.6 on Betfair. Is the tide turning or is this incredible value?
Shortly there will be a referendum, in which Remain will win, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906. This ought to herald another decade of strong, confident, consensual one nation Tory government. Which will finally and irrevocably transform the nature of politics and civic life in Britain.
You're over your gloom of a few days ago?
I've always been confident of a Remain victory.
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
Farage isn't even in Parliament!
Prime Minister Boris Johnson can appoint him to The House of Lords.
UKIP won 4 million votes at the last election. Shouldn't they be represented in the House of Lords?
They should be much better represented in the Commons.
Well, that's a mistake I will never make again. Peston is not going on my essential viewing list. In fact, that's the last time I'll watch that particular programme. Everything about it is abysmal.
I've just seen him do talking head stuff post the ITV debates - he was pretty average then. What made his show especially dire?
And rightly so. This is the most racist campaign this country has ever seen. At least Farage calls a spade a spade unlike Johnson who goes round in a bus with '77 million Turks' on the side and says it's nothing to do with him.
Comments
I said it was the prospect of Farage in government that was filling me with gloom.
There is no amount of dirt cheap gardeners, waiters, crop harvesters, nannies, building labourers and cleaners they are willing to bring in.
My Romanian gardener asked for a pay rise the other day. Let's get Serbia in.
The other problem in something like the EU debate is that the politicians know the public all too well. So the Remain side know that if they are honest and admit that the direction of travel for the EU is a federal state then the overwhelming majority would reject it. At the same time the Leave side know that if they admit there is great uncertainty and some probable economic impact from withdrawal they will also lose votes. No one can afford to lose votes on either side so they paper over the cracks in their arguments and pretend the future is bright.
Personally I know that the future I want is basically unattainable as most of the public would never accept it. That knowledge keeps me from doing anything really stupid like standing for a political position.
*innocent face*
Good point.
http://order-order.com/2016/06/19/bbc-wembley-debate-line-ups/
Leave aren't going down without a fight.
So much for PB Tory infallibility...
@MichaelLCrick: Vote Leave have banned me from today's Boris Johnson rally in London, because, says aide Robert Oxley, I "took the piss" at past events
I am sure she is a nice person otherwise.
"Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority, and in so doing utterly shatter the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained us for the century since 1906."
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
Great news for "leave" xD
http://news.sky.com/story/1709337/eu-in-or-out-put-your-questions-to-corbyn
Problems for the dispossessed WWC in the Labour heartlands? Fuck 'em, they don't count.
Standing in front of that THAT poster - speaking for UKIP and UKIP alone - ensured he was always going to be ostracised.
https://twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/743359287825731584
But younger voters are more in favour of the EU, so as time passes it becomes less likely that we will leave.
My bet is that by Monday/Tuesday the polls will show Leave firmly in the lead as we all go down the straight, to coin a racing parlance.
*slightly innocent face*
Contains discussions about sex clubs and orgies and how it led to Barack Obama becoming President
titters....
Labour have to come to their senses. Not optimistic
I have no words
Contrast that with Marr, locked into a love for the Labour party and long term married to a Labour writing journalist.
Kuensberg does lack some gravitas - but may grow into it (hopefully).
Peston son of a Labour Lord, best mate with europhile Roland Rudd comfortable with guardianista Allegra and part of teh itv crew that fixed a deal with Cameron to get Farage on the telly... a disgraceful act.
As for the non-entity on Newsnight, Evan Davis, the idea of forensic interviewing is something that he clearly would not understand or be comfortable with, preferring his fireside chats at night that add little insight but send people gently off to sleep.
Jeri Ryan is certainly a loss to the hot wife lifestyle.
*goes for a lie down in a darkened room*
"The only credible argument for Brexit - a belief in untrammeled parliamentary sovereignty-retains a powerful draw on public loyalty. I have found questions on of democracy and accountability, federalism and nationhood as vocal on the streets of Stoke as in any Westminster think tank'
Its that simple, immigration is in effect a subset of this wider issue. Yet the Brexit campaign, to my eyes at least, hasn't gone after the singular sovereignty message as much as it should.
The concern over the poll figures that I see is that yet again issues that do drive some peoples' choices, are things they may feel slightly reluctant to express vocally, immigration being the obvious one. Being openly expressive about such things can get you branded as a racist, ignorant or whatever. I suspect, plenty out there who are going to use the privacy of the ballot box to express it and that may tip things.
Numpty!
On the next thread. Any chance of a Eurovision/ABBA reference too?
His "emergency budget" nonsense was economic crap but political genius. All of the discussion of what to do with the extra £350m (I know, I know) was swept away almost instantly and has not been heard of since.
Framing the debate is what the really skilled political operators do. Mandelson did it for Blair and Osborne is his unchallenged successor. Like Mandelson he is not nice or likeable but boy, is he effective.
What I do know is that I'm more inclined to think journalists should be included even if they take they piss, than thinking its a good idea to leave the judgement as to whether piss has indeed been taken by the politicians themselves.
It sure as sh*t is not going to help people be more favourable to them in future. And of course is self fulfilling - X took the piss out of us and is impartial, because we banned them from an event for taking the piss out of us and being impartial.
With the possible exception of Northern Ireland, the weather forecast indicates a generally warm dry day with some clouds.
If this proves to be correct, then it will possibly nudge the turnout up by a couple of percentage points, compared with what might have been the case otherwise.
When the betting markets first opened the spread for turnout was around 60% - 61%, it's now 69% - 70% and rising.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUu-t7peWg
Goes to show how some blokes just don't know when they're well off.
But equally - and unrelated to her - there is a group of people who make a professional career out of working for NGOs and charities. Organisations such as a Oxfam - a particularly bad offender - pay huge amounts to their senior staff and have bloated cost structures rather than focusing of getting money to the front end. Similarly they spend vast amount on professional fundraising and happily suck up as much of the airtime and charitable resources available rather than focusing on which groups would tackle specific problems best. Many of those individuals see a revolving door between politics and the third sector* and hence politicise the charity's mission.
Fundamentally, charity should be charity, business should be business and politics should be about public service
* in the way that too many Tories see a revolving door between certain types of business and politics, a trend which I am equally critical of
"Keep Calm and Vote LEAVE!"
No one can doubt The Sunil on Sunday's shock and dismay at the murder of Jo Cox last week. And no one can possibly justify her killing either, whether or not the motive was political. But as the case is now sub judice, we will leave the judge and jury to decide exactly what the motive was, and what was heard and what was seen by eyewitnesses on that tragic day.
But we would like to remind our fans and readers that Mr. Mair is no more representative of the Brexiteers than Mr. Mateen in Orlando is representative of Muslims. Just because one lone nutter within a particular political or religious group carries out a heinous, barbaric assault against democracy and freedom, it doesn't mean we have to tar all members of the group with the same brush. We hope you will agree with us on that point at least!
For that reason, we urge all our fans and readers to take stock of poor Ms Cox's murder, by all means, but not to let that affect how they will vote this coming Thursday. Try not to lose sight of the bigger picture - our place in or out of Europe. If you happen to support the REMAIN side, fair play to you, sirs and madams! We will heartily disagree with you, but we will support your right to vote REMAIN without being branded unpatriotic. But we for our part still recommend a LEAVE vote, for the following reasons:
* Democracy - think about whether REMAINING or LEAVING will be helpful or a hindrance to the democratic process
* Sovereignty - think about how we will be able to pass laws affecting life and business in the UK
* Money - think about our NET £8.5 billion contribution (2015 figures) to the EU. Remember, this figure EXCLUDES any money the EU contributes back to us for regional development!
* Immigration - think about how EU citizens have a built-in advantage about moving here over non-EU citizens
* And finally, and perhaps most importantly: Believe in BRITAIN! Be LEAVE!
thank you!
The Sunil on Sunday Editorial Team
Lord Sunil (proprietor and headline-finder pursuivant)
Austin Allegra (politics)
Clair Fix (model... trains)
Larry Gineker (sports)
Mystic Smeg (clairvoyance)
Mark Commode (films)
I actually want a referendum on EU not immigration.
What is better, a nasty right wing but democratic government that the electorate can turf out every five years or a progressive left wing government that nobody in the UK can turf out, even if in the future it becomes far more nasty and right wing than Farage has ever dreamt of?
The use of Mordaunt and Cooper was so similar to almost every television piece leading up to the Scottish vote. One side is invited to attack the other, the other side only gets the chance to defend itself and never state their own case, then the first side is again asked to finish with an attack. In effect all parts of the debate now concern attacks by Remain on Leave.