I shall shamelessly not post anything to do with the threader, but to let you know the signed copy of your book arrived today. As that copy of the book is earmarked for my son's birthday present, I am frustrated that I can't get read it and give it a review
However, I shall order another copy for myself and hopefully it will arrive soon (then when I come up to Leeds in June you can sign it as the price for your dinner at the Brazilian Place).
For those on here wondering WTF I am talking about, I am of of course referring to "Thaddeus White's beautifully written and immensely funny fantasy comedy" currently consisting of two parts but now available in one volume - The adventures of Sir Edric.
Thaddeus White is better known to most of us on here as Morris Dancer, an idiot (sorry, incredibly handsome and talented chap) who sells his work far, far too cheaply.
One for you Mr L
As Dave cringed before smug Obama The yells of an irate old Llama could be heard in the City "Our PM's just shitty, with even less spine than Nick Palmer!"*
There was a young Leaver from Rye Who dismissed Remain's warnings as pie in the sky He got one hell of a shock When his work closed the lock Because Brexit had caused it to die
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering/bullshitting
There was a young man of vote.Leave Who claimed "you have to believe!" His hat of tinfoil Made his blood boil So on PB he began to seeth.
As opposed to non-tinfoil hat people who think fellow PBers are Russian spys.
There was a young Leaver from Rye Who dismissed Remain's warnings as pie in the sky He got one hell of a shock When his work closed the lock Because Brexit had caused it to die
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering/bullshitting
There was a young man of vote.Leave Who claimed "you have to believe!" His hat of tinfoil Made his blood boil So on PB he began to seeth.
As opposed to non-tinfoil hat people who think fellow PBers are Russian spys.
Yes. It is absurd and childish; it's the "appeal to ridicule" or "reductio ad ridiculum" fallacy ("reductio ad absurdum" is something else).
Most of the Leave criticism that I've seen so far is either pure ad hominem stuff or unsubstantiated claims of corruption or incompetence together with the aforementioned reductio ad ridiculum tactic. If Leave disagree with a claim, then let's see them rebut it with facts or point out any inconsistencies or spurious assumptions. That's the way it's done in science, but I guess politics is different.
I remember a description of successful modern journalism that rang true: "Simplify, than exaggerate". Politics has become like that too.
A fragrant French lady called Christine Says the case for Remaining is pristine She's allegedly criminal So success has been minimal We've concluded she's taking the pisstine
While I obviously disagree with the IMF's assessment, everyone I know- irrespective of their political persuasion- who has worked with Mme Legarde has spoken highly of her.
Roses are red Violets are blue Unless we vote Leave In which case we shall be CONSUMED BY A BLACK HOLE, following which the concept of colour will be meaningless.
You haven't lost your sense of humour entirely then!
Roses are red Violets are blue Unless we vote Leave In which case we shall be CONSUMED BY A BLACK HOLE, following which the concept of colour will be meaningless.
Pah I defy you Darth Meekon, the Jedi are Irish and on their way to save the galaxy
There is a very big political problem if Leave do win because while the country will obviously be more than 50% in favour of leaving,
It's very unlikely that the country will be more than 50% in favour of leaving. If 51% vote to leave on a turnout of 60% then 30.6% of the country will have voted to Leave. Bearing in mind that about 70% of MPs, almost all business and professional organisations and the City are opposed to leaving I don't think it is at all certain that we would really leave under such circumstances.
They can't ignore a democratically arrived at result. Presumably a Leave faction within the Conservative Party will aim to implement it, but it's not certain they will have the capability given they are a minority in the HoC, they are not agreed on a plan and it's susceptible to spanners being thrown into the works by third parties, in particular by the EU itself.
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
If it resulted in a long-term impact on the stock market, it certainly would, except for people who have already used up their pension pots in lump sum and annuity payments. I don't think anyone seriously denies that there would be a severe short-term dip. The alternative Brexit arguments are "but it's worth it" or "we'll recover when we make lots of new deals". The latter is very nebulous, so the focus is on the former.
An ageing roué called TSE Said Vote REMAIN was where you should be He swallowed the guff Emitted from Legarde's old chuff And became a merkin for Soubry
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
If it resulted in a long-term impact on the stock market, it certainly would, except for people who have already used up their pension pots in lump sum and annuity payments. I don't think anyone seriously denies that there would be a severe short-term dip. The alternative Brexit arguments are "but it's worth it" or "we'll recover when we make lots of new deals". The latter is very nebulous, so the focus is on the former.
Also, a falling pound will import inflation which will certainly affect people who already on a pension.
The first 50 comments on this thread - limericks aside - read like the crap you get under a Guido article. Slightly better spelling and less dribble, to be fair, but tedious enough for me to give up.
I fear the next 300 comments will have followed the same vein.
The Remainers are sounding like the bloke who says to a woman:
Would have sex with me for £1m? I'll think about it OK in the meantime will you sex with me for £5? What type of woman do you think I am? We've already established that, now we're negotiating the price.
Great Churchillian quote!
A fellow media proprietor (Lord Beaverbrook) I think.
In ten years if the figures are true, Immigration is coming for you. The population of Scotland Will live extra in England What on earth will our NHS do?
Hypothetical scenario:- Leave wins but it very quickly becomes evident that the economic warnings from IMF, G20, BoE etc were actually correct, trade negotiations become a nightmare etc etc - which individuals stand to benefit most? Where is money to be made?
Simplest money to be made would be by shorting sterling or by buying US dollars or (perhaps even better) Swiss Francs - money will flee the Euro as well as Sterling in the event of Brexit.
Longer term, any company which exports mainly to the US or to other non-Eurozone markets is likely to be a winner from the fall in sterling. And of course anyone holding US stocks will benefit in a similar way. Or you could short UK domestic stocks and go long on US-focused stocks to benefit from the damage to the UK economy.
I can't see any upside other than the exchange rate effect, in the foreseeable future.
Of course if there's a Remain result these will be a money-losing strategies as Sterling bounces back - it's not a one-way bet! For that reason, my preferred strategy in my pension is simply the rather boring one of maintaining a well-diversified portfolio with a higher-than-conventional proportion of non-UK assets.
I cashed out of a lot of my equities a few weeks back, and don't expect to re-enter the market until the dust settles. I expect that if we vote Leave the markets will meltdown, if we vote Remain the markets will only rally until the government meltdown. Coupled with the existing slowdown in the UK economy and my lack of confidence in a soft landing in China, it is not a good time to buy.
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
If it resulted in a long-term impact on the stock market, it certainly would, except for people who have already used up their pension pots in lump sum and annuity payments. I don't think anyone seriously denies that there would be a severe short-term dip. The alternative Brexit arguments are "but it's worth it" or "we'll recover when we make lots of new deals". The latter is very nebulous, so the focus is on the former.
Stop making things up Nick. There are lots of people who don't accept there will be a severe short term dip. You just aren't listening.
Isn’t that a bit like marriage? Although there you hand over the money as well as not making the decisions.
LOL!
I got into a bit of trouble the other day when I poured a particularly fine claret for my wife and myself, with the comment that, although I had promised to share my worldly goods, I hadn't necessarily promised to share them in equal proportions.
That's a bit like what happens on retirement; you're told that you married for better or worse but not for lunch.
Explains, I understand, why golf courses are so busy!
Hypothetical scenario:- Leave wins but it very quickly becomes evident that the economic warnings from IMF, G20, BoE etc were actually correct, trade negotiations become a nightmare etc etc - which individuals stand to benefit most? Where is money to be made?
Simplest money to be made would be by shorting sterling or by buying US dollars or (perhaps even better) Swiss Francs - money will flee the Euro as well as Sterling in the event of Brexit.
Longer term, any company which exports mainly to the US or to other non-Eurozone markets is likely to be a winner from the fall in sterling. And of course anyone holding US stocks will benefit in a similar way. Or you could short UK domestic stocks and go long on US-focused stocks to benefit from the damage to the UK economy.
I can't see any upside other than the exchange rate effect, in the foreseeable future.
Of course if there's a Remain result these will be a money-losing strategies as Sterling bounces back - it's not a one-way bet! For that reason, my preferred strategy in my pension is simply the rather boring one of maintaining a well-diversified portfolio with a higher-than-conventional proportion of non-UK assets.
I cashed out of a lot of my equities a few weeks back, and don't expect to re-enter the market until the dust settles. I expect that if we vote Leave the markets will meltdown, if we vote Remain the markets will only rally until the government meltdown. Coupled with the existing slowdown in the UK economy and my lack of confidence in a soft landing in China, it is not a good time to buy.
This is a problem for the vast majority of people, when to cash out their equities.
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
If it resulted in a long-term impact on the stock market, it certainly would, except for people who have already used up their pension pots in lump sum and annuity payments. I don't think anyone seriously denies that there would be a severe short-term dip. The alternative Brexit arguments are "but it's worth it" or "we'll recover when we make lots of new deals". The latter is very nebulous, so the focus is on the former.
Oh, this is priceless.
Nick "I was an MP under Brown" Palmer is offering advice on pensions.
Tell me, Nick, how did you vote in the £6 billion a year pension fund raid? You know, the one that led to closure of most final salary schemes.
Where were your precious "workers' protections from the EU" then?
How is your final salary MP's pension doing? I note that's not been closed down.
Spare us your faux concern over private pensions - your party's ignoble record on the subject is too well known.
Cue Alastair Meeks with a "don't rush to judgement" comment.
Hypothetical scenario:- Leave wins but it very quickly becomes evident that the economic warnings from IMF, G20, BoE etc were actually correct, trade negotiations become a nightmare etc etc - which individuals stand to benefit most? Where is money to be made?
Simplest money to be made would be by shorting sterling or by buying US dollars or (perhaps even better) Swiss Francs - money will flee the Euro as well as Sterling in the event of Brexit.
Longer term, any company which exports mainly to the US or to other non-Eurozone markets is likely to be a winner from the fall in sterling. And of course anyone holding US stocks will benefit in a similar way. Or you could short UK domestic stocks and go long on US-focused stocks to benefit from the damage to the UK economy.
I can't see any upside other than the exchange rate effect, in the foreseeable future.
Of course if there's a Remain result these will be a money-losing strategies as Sterling bounces back - it's not a one-way bet! For that reason, my preferred strategy in my pension is simply the rather boring one of maintaining a well-diversified portfolio with a higher-than-conventional proportion of non-UK assets.
I cashed out of a lot of my equities a few weeks back, and don't expect to re-enter the market until the dust settles. I expect that if we vote Leave the markets will meltdown, if we vote Remain the markets will only rally until the government meltdown. Coupled with the existing slowdown in the UK economy and my lack of confidence in a soft landing in China, it is not a good time to buy.
This is a problem for the vast majority of people, when to cash out their equities.
I am fortunate in being in charge of my own destiny.
An ageing roué called TSE Said Vote REMAIN was where you should be He swallowed the guff Emitted from Legarde's old chuff And became a merkin for Soubry
There was a young Leaver from Rye Who dismissed Remain's warnings as pie in the sky He got one hell of a shock When his work closed the lock Because Brexit had caused it to die
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering/bullshitting
There was a young man of vote.Leave Who claimed "you have to believe!" His hat of tinfoil Made his blood boil So on PB he began to seeth.
As opposed to non-tinfoil hat people who think fellow PBers are Russian spys.
Remember when posting the new spin Don't recoil from just putting the boot in And when signing your slip He might leave you a tip Vladimir Vladimirovych Putin
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
If it resulted in a long-term impact on the stock market, it certainly would, except for people who have already used up their pension pots in lump sum and annuity payments. I don't think anyone seriously denies that there would be a severe short-term dip. The alternative Brexit arguments are "but it's worth it" or "we'll recover when we make lots of new deals". The latter is very nebulous, so the focus is on the former.
I seriously deny there would be a severe short term dip.
Stop asserting your own opinion and spin as gospel that everyone agrees with.
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
If it resulted in a long-term impact on the stock market, it certainly would, except for people who have already used up their pension pots in lump sum and annuity payments. I don't think anyone seriously denies that there would be a severe short-term dip. The alternative Brexit arguments are "but it's worth it" or "we'll recover when we make lots of new deals". The latter is very nebulous, so the focus is on the former.
Stop making things up Nick. There are lots of people who don't accept there will be a severe short term dip. You just aren't listening.
Quite right - if it was only going to be a short term dip wouldn't be so bad!!!
Roses are red Violets are blue Unless we vote Leave In which case we shall be CONSUMED BY A BLACK HOLE, following which the concept of colour will be meaningless.
Pah I defy you Darth Meekon, the Jedi are Irish and on their way to save the galaxy
I'm now off to Scotland for the week, be gentle on older gentlemen of a leavy persuasion while I'm away.
We really need a George is crap thread to restore harmony on PB.
How about this? Where Osborne overemphasises the word 'independent' for both the BoE and IMF report, and then seconds later Lagarde thanks both the Treasury and the BoE for their help and input into their report:
There was a Prime Minister called Cameron Who promised we’d have Götterdämmerung If the EU we left We would all be bereft And would not have a pot to squat down upon.
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
I don't think there will be a second vote unless it's impossible to pass it through the Commons.
I think that's why there will have to be a vote, there are enough Tory BOOers who wouldn't vote in favour of a FTA that keeps the four freedoms in the commons and Labour would want to keep the party looking split, even though it will be more like 250 in favour of the FTA vs 80 against compared to the current 160 Leave/170 Remain.
I don't think the votes are there to push a deal through without consulting the people and putting forward two plans, one of which limiting immigration.
That's what I expect. The Tories will not be able to pass a bill themselves and Labour won't help them out, or will attach impossible (from the Tory point of view) conditions to doing so. One has to keep in mind that there is a huge prize for Labour if the Tories really do split. As in split split.
And asking the public would be the obvious manoeuvre for a Tory leader trying to prevent that.
There is a very big political problem if Leave do win because while the country will obviously be more than 50% in favour of leaving,
It's very unlikely that the country will be more than 50% in favour of leaving. If 51% vote to leave on a turnout of 60% then 30.6% of the country will have voted to Leave. Bearing in mind that about 70% of MPs, almost all business and professional organisations and the City are opposed to leaving I don't think it is at all certain that we would really leave under such circumstances.
As someone who has £7.50 on UKIP most seats next General Election I am begging the government to ignore a Leave vote in such circumstances.
I don't think there will be a second vote unless it's impossible to pass it through the Commons.
I think that's why there will have to be a vote, there are enough Tory BOOers who wouldn't vote in favour of a FTA that keeps the four freedoms in the commons and Labour would want to keep the party looking split, even though it will be more like 250 in favour of the FTA vs 80 against compared to the current 160 Leave/170 Remain.
I don't think the votes are there to push a deal through without consulting the people and putting forward two plans, one of which limiting immigration.
That's what I expect. The Tories will not be able to pass a bill themselves and Labour won't help them out, or will attach impossible (from the Tory point of view) conditions to doing so. One has to keep in mind that there is a huge prize for Labour if the Tories really do split. As in split split.
And asking the public would be the obvious manoeuvre for a Tory leader trying to prevent that.
There is a very big political problem if Leave do win because while the country will obviously be more than 50% in favour of leaving,
It's very unlikely that the country will be more than 50% in favour of leaving. If 51% vote to leave on a turnout of 60% then 30.6% of the country will have voted to Leave. Bearing in mind that about 70% of MPs, almost all business and professional organisations and the City are opposed to leaving I don't think it is at all certain that we would really leave under such circumstances.
As someone who has £7.50 on UKIP most seats next General Election I am begging the government to ignore a Leave vote in such circumstances.
Hypothetical scenario:- Leave wins but it very quickly becomes evident that the economic warnings from IMF, G20, BoE etc were actually correct, trade negotiations become a nightmare etc etc - which individuals stand to benefit most? Where is money to be made?
Simplest money to be made would be by shorting sterling or by buying US dollars or (perhaps even better) Swiss Francs - money will flee the Euro as well as Sterling in the event of Brexit.
Longer term, any company which exports mainly to the US or to other non-Eurozone markets is likely to be a winner from the fall in sterling. And of course anyone holding US stocks will benefit in a similar way. Or you could short UK domestic stocks and go long on US-focused stocks to benefit from the damage to the UK economy.
I can't see any upside other than the exchange rate effect, in the foreseeable future.
Of course if there's a Remain result these will be a money-losing strategies as Sterling bounces back - it's not a one-way bet! For that reason, my preferred strategy in my pension is simply the rather boring one of maintaining a well-diversified portfolio with a higher-than-conventional proportion of non-UK assets.
I cashed out of a lot of my equities a few weeks back, and don't expect to re-enter the market until the dust settles. I expect that if we vote Leave the markets will meltdown, if we vote Remain the markets will only rally until the government meltdown. Coupled with the existing slowdown in the UK economy and my lack of confidence in a soft landing in China, it is not a good time to buy.
This is a problem for the vast majority of people, when to cash out their equities.
I am fortunate in being in charge of my own destiny.
Good for you, but whether or not to cash out equities won't be of immediate concern to most when considering the EU referendum. That's the great thing about socialists.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
There will be a Remain attack on Pensions.
I am close to guaranteeing this.
With economic stormclouds gathering even apart from Brexit concerns, there will most likely be further raids on pensions and property. You can only take money off those who have it, and governments are running out of other things to raid.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
Roses are red Violets are blue Unless we vote Leave In which case we shall be CONSUMED BY A BLACK HOLE, following which the concept of colour will be meaningless.
Pah I defy you Darth Meekon, the Jedi are Irish and on their way to save the galaxy
I'm now off to Scotland for the week, be gentle on older gentlemen of a leavy persuasion while I'm away.
We really need a George is crap thread to restore harmony on PB.
I was hoping, after how dreadful the last one was, that they would quietly bin the new films. After I read JJ Abrams was directing it I was determined not to see it but got tricked into it by the five star reviews. How it go more than one star must be the same method that Remain campaign get all these nonsensical scaremongering stories on the consequences of us leaving the EU.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
Roses are red Violets are blue Unless we vote Leave In which case we shall be CONSUMED BY A BLACK HOLE, following which the concept of colour will be meaningless.
Pah I defy you Darth Meekon, the Jedi are Irish and on their way to save the galaxy
I'm now off to Scotland for the week, be gentle on older gentlemen of a leavy persuasion while I'm away.
We really need a George is crap thread to restore harmony on PB.
I was hoping, after how dreadful the last one was, that they would quietly bin the new films. After I read JJ Abrams was directing it I was determined not to see it but got tricked into it by the five star reviews. How it go more than one star must be the same method that Remain campaign get all these nonsensical scaremongering stories on the consequences of us leaving the EU.
Worst film ever!
Wow. I suppose there must be some tiny minority who believe that. Just never thought I would actually come across one of them.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
There was a young Leaver from Rye Who dismissed Remain's warnings as pie in the sky He got one hell of a shock When his work closed the lock Because Brexit had caused it to die
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering/bullshitting
There was a young man of vote.Leave Who claimed "you have to believe!" His hat of tinfoil Made his blood boil So on PB he began to seeth.
As opposed to non-tinfoil hat people who think fellow PBers are Russian spys.
Remember when posting the new spin Don't recoil from just putting the boot in And when signing your slip He might leave you a tip Vladimir Vladimirovych Putin
However, given the thread I think it worth mentioning the Spectator is running a contest for an obscene limerick about Erdogan, with a prize of £1,000 for the winner.
The first 50 comments on this thread - limericks aside - read like the crap you get under a Guido article. Slightly better spelling and less dribble, to be fair, but tedious enough for me to give up.
I fear the next 300 comments will have followed the same vein.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The first 50 comments on this thread - limericks aside - read like the crap you get under a Guido article. Slightly better spelling and less dribble, to be fair, but tedious enough for me to give up.
I fear the next 300 comments will have followed the same vein.
UKIPHome lives.
It has had the same effect on me with R4. I am so sick of leave and remain arguing interminably whilst both are lying through their back teeth, that if the EU is discussed in anyway, I instinctively retune elsewhere.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
I like this economy v sovereignty thing, its hypothetical but no matter. If somebody offers you money but the price is you would no longer be able to make your own decisions, would you accept the money?
Unfortunately for the Brexiteers the question is backwards.
We currently have freedom of movement and economic prosperity.
So the question is "How much of your income are you willing to sacrifice to make the decision to prevent you or your neighbours from being able to hire a competent Polish plumber, and get a local YOP scheme trainee instead?"
I don't have to pay for this and the letting agency only hire incompetent Scots. Did you tell me interest rates are going up and houses will get cheaper too? Where do I sign?
PB shrewdies condemn 'tinfoil hatters' with theories on Bilderberg matters But have an opinion That's not from a minion They'll claim it's paid Soviet chatter
PB shrewdies condemn 'tinfoil hatters' with theories on Bilderberg matters But have an opinion That's not from a minion They'll claim it's paid Soviet chatter
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
If it resulted in a long-term impact on the stock market, it certainly would, except for people who have already used up their pension pots in lump sum and annuity payments. I don't think anyone seriously denies that there would be a severe short-term dip. The alternative Brexit arguments are "but it's worth it" or "we'll recover when we make lots of new deals". The latter is very nebulous, so the focus is on the former.
Also, a falling pound will import inflation which will certainly affect people who already on a pension.
Government pensions and many private pensions are inflation proofed.
Also if inflation looks to be heading above 2% then interest rates will be raised which benefits savers many of whom are pensioners who have suffered from the low interest rates over the last seven years or so.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
War or Genocide were not mentioned, but why let the truth get in the way of a good dit.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
The chance to change the EU was when Cameron negotiated recently. This was against a background that we would leave if changes were not made.
If other EU countries were not prepared to negotiate substantive changes in these circumstaces (which they weren't) then they are never going to change in a way the UK wants.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other
Nope. Go look at the papers the day Cameron tried to claim Brexit would lead to WW3. They were laughing so hard he had to change his speech. People are scornful of the Remain claims because they are so wildly over the top. Even some of the Remain side on here have seen it. I am amazed you don't.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
War or Genocide were not mentioned, but why let the truth get in the way of a good dit.
Cameron mentioned the first and second world wars in his speech - and he thought he got away with it
I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
And as we have made clear time and time again, the idea of changing the EU from within to suit the UK is simply a pipe dream. We have had 40 years or more of politicians telling it it can be done and they have achieved nothing.
Be absolutely clear. If you vote for Remain you are voting for the continuation of the EU project and ever closer union.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
People on PB comments were laughing, but they're highly politicised and much further to the Eurosceptic right than the population of the UK. So of course, they would.
Like Milifans they will wake up and rue the day they scorned or disregarded provincial-town low-information voters, Cameron's biggest fans.
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other
Nope. Go look at the papers the day Cameron tried to claim Brexit would lead to WW3. They were laughing so hard he had to change his speech. People are scornful of the Remain claims because they are so wildly over the top. Even some of the Remain side on here have seen it. I am amazed you don't.
The mail, sun, telegraph, times and the sun are all brexit so by trusting them you are only talking to yourself. The broadcast media are much more balanced and the interesting issue in this campaign will be to see just how influential the print media will turn out to be
People on PB comments were laughing, but they're highly politicised and much further to the Eurosceptic right than the population of the UK. So of course, they would.
Like Milifans they will wake up and rue the day they scorned or disregarded provincial-town low-information voters, Cameron's biggest fans.
Um no. The reviewers on Sky were laughing. The papers were laughing. The Daily Politics was laughing. basically everywhere people get their news was laughing,. As I say they were laughing so hard the PM had to change his speech at the last minute.
PB shrewdies condemn 'tinfoil hatters' with theories on Bilderberg matters But have an opinion That's not from a minion They'll claim it's paid Soviet chatter
I am surprised that the Remain campaign have not spelt out to the Over 65 dynamic that a vote to Leave will likely mean a cut to their pension. Indeed this could in theory be replicated for anyone who derives income from the state as a contracting economy in shock from an EU exit would likely mean public spending cuts. The Over 65’s have been insulated from much of the austerity of recent years but a Brexit would induce more painful cuts.
Brexit would have no impact at all on pensions.
If it resulted in a long-term impact on the stock market, it certainly would, except for people who have already used up their pension pots in lump sum and annuity payments. I don't think anyone seriously denies that there would be a severe short-term dip. The alternative Brexit arguments are "but it's worth it" or "we'll recover when we make lots of new deals". The latter is very nebulous, so the focus is on the former.
Also, a falling pound will import inflation which will certainly affect people who already on a pension.
Government pensions and many private pensions are inflation proofed.
Also if inflation looks to be heading above 2% then interest rates will be raised which benefits savers many of whom are pensioners who have suffered from the low interest rates over the last seven years or so.
Your assuming that the economy will stay the same but Brexit is a dramatic change, otherwise why would the Leave side be proposing it? If the economy receives a shock and tax revenues are hit, the areas of government spending that can easily have cuts implemented are few and far between. Given if we believe the polling the over 65s are most likely to vote for Brexit, why do they not share the pain? It will not be politics as usual and any funding gap on top of the existing one will have to mean higher borrowing, higher taxes or less spending. As we are repeatedly told the Welfare budget is the largest one and Pensions likely the largest component.
And in the summer of 2008 establishment supporters were bleating a long list of establishment organisations saying that the banks were well run and that there would not be a recession.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
War or Genocide were not mentioned, but why let the truth get in the way of a good dit.
War and genocide were clearly in the briefings given out the night before the speech. That is why so many papers and news outlets repeated the claim before the speech. It was their reaction that led to Cameron toning down his speech.
The mail, sun, telegraph, times and the sun are all brexit so by trusting them you are only talking to yourself. The broadcast media are much more balanced and the interesting issue in this campaign will be to see just how influential the print media will turn out to be
The Guardian is not Brexit and were scornful of the claims.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
The chance to change the EU was when Cameron negotiated recently. This was against a background that we would leave if changes were not made.
If other EU countries were not prepared to negotiate substantive changes in these circumstaces (which they weren't) then they are never going to change in a way the UK wants.
Well I see this differently. After this referendum everything is open to change as more countries demand change and even their own referendums. If you think Europe wont change you under estimate the thirst for democracy Europe wide
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other
But Big_G it is Remain who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other.
My advice is never to make a statement which can be reversed and used back at you.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
War or Genocide were not mentioned, but why let the truth get in the way of a good dit.
Cameron mentioned the first and second world wars in his speech - and he thought he got away with it
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other
But Big_G it is Remain who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other.
My advice is never to make a statement which can be reversed and used back at you.
I will make statements that I am content with and will stand by them.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
The chance to change the EU was when Cameron negotiated recently. This was against a background that we would leave if changes were not made.
If other EU countries were not prepared to negotiate substantive changes in these circumstaces (which they weren't) then they are never going to change in a way the UK wants.
Well I see this differently. After this referendum everything is open to change as more countries demand change and even their own referendums. If you think Europe wont change you under estimate the thirst for democracy Europe wide
I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view.
leave should be tolerant of remaining?
No but tolerance for an opposing view is part of a debate.
5 hours and 9 mins in to the ITV coverage of 'that' night. Matthew Parris predicts that Nigel Farage will resign as leader of UKIP if he does not win S Thanet but he won't resign for long...
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
The chance to change the EU was when Cameron negotiated recently. This was against a background that we would leave if changes were not made.
If other EU countries were not prepared to negotiate substantive changes in these circumstaces (which they weren't) then they are never going to change in a way the UK wants.
Well I see this differently. After this referendum everything is open to change as more countries demand change and even their own referendums. If you think Europe wont change you under estimate the thirst for democracy Europe wide
I would love to know what sort of meaningful reforms you think are achievable.
A not so young man from Dundee, Was tired of bending the knee The words of Mark Carney, Are not often barmy, But oh! He wants to be free.
You'll find not a single world banker Who has never at Goldman dropped anchor When Carney was hired Nigel said they'd conspired Personally I just think he's a
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
The chance to change the EU was when Cameron negotiated recently. This was against a background that we would leave if changes were not made.
If other EU countries were not prepared to negotiate substantive changes in these circumstaces (which they weren't) then they are never going to change in a way the UK wants.
Well I see this differently. After this referendum everything is open to change as more countries demand change and even their own referendums. If you think Europe wont change you under estimate the thirst for democracy Europe wide
The EU will continue to change but become more harmonised, more centralist, more protectionist and continue to spend 40% of its income subsidising an industry (farming) which represents only 3% of Europe's GDP instead of supporting new growth industries.
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
And as we have made clear time and time again, the idea of changing the EU from within to suit the UK is simply a pipe dream. We have had 40 years or more of politicians telling it it can be done and they have achieved nothing.
Be absolutely clear. If you vote for Remain you are voting for the continuation of the EU project and ever closer union.
No I am not - but if leave accept any part of my argument the whole purpose of leave is irrelevant
Following yesterday's ONS report showing that 2016q1 manufacturing output was 1.3% lower than a year earlier today we had the construction output data:
' Between Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2016 and Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2015, output was estimated to have decreased by 1.9%. '
David Cameron's speech-briefings swore That Brexit meant carnage and war But his horrifying vision Caused rampant derision So it stayed on the cutting room floor
I listened to John Longworth on 5 live and everyone is in an international conspiracy with all of them in the pay of the EU and big banks that caused the crash. He was also annoyed that the Government is campaigning to remain. It came over to discredit everyone and only leave are right. He and leave need to understand it is Government policy to remain so of course they will campaign for it. The reporter became frustrated and it was frankly embarrassing to listen to. I know I will be accused as a remainer of being biased but most any reasonable person listening would not have been impressed. Apart from David Cameron it is reported that Nicola Sturgeon is to take on Farage as well in a televised debate. Are vote leave going to apply for another injuction
I agree the Government campaign for Remain, because it is policy. This is a once in a lifetime event for LEAVE, and they have no strategy, other than you are wrong and we are right. Personally I and most people I talk to will be glad when is is finished. Any ideas on turnout figures you would hope for at least 60%.
The atmosphere, certainly on here, has become rather acrid and it is difficult to try to make a point if you are for remain. I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. Leave though have no tolerance for that view. The amount of media coverage together with televised debates will increase the vote in my opinion to that of a GE say 65% + David Cameron needs to be thanked for reducing the campaign to a few months, just imagine if it had been like the Scots referendum
The chance to change the EU was when Cameron negotiated recently. This was against a background that we would leave if changes were not made.
If other EU countries were not prepared to negotiate substantive changes in these circumstaces (which they weren't) then they are never going to change in a way the UK wants.
Well I see this differently. After this referendum everything is open to change as more countries demand change and even their own referendums. If you think Europe wont change you under estimate the thirst for democracy Europe wide
I would love to know what sort of meaningful reforms you think are achievable.
Following yesterday's ONS report showing that 2015q1 manufacturing output was 1.3% lower than a year earlier today we had the construction output data:
' Between Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2016 and Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2015, output was estimated to have decreased by 1.9%. '
'I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. '
Seriously, how do you explain after hearing for the past twenty years from both Tory & Labour politicians 'the EU needs changing' and yet the only change is more Europe and ever decreasing national sovereignty ?
Dave negotiating on the basis of an In/Out referendum can only get four minor changes that we know can & will get overruled.
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other
But Big_G it is Remain who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other.
My advice is never to make a statement which can be reversed and used back at you.
I will make statements that I am content with and will stand by them.
So are you really trying to say people haven't been laughing at Cameron ?
Well I see this differently. After this referendum everything is open to change as more countries demand change and even their own referendums. If you think Europe wont change you under estimate the thirst for democracy Europe wide
The failure of the Eurozone is the real issue facing the EU. The kind of solutions required to fix it would marginalise the UK further. Therefore I truly doubt the sort of reform we will see over the coming decades would be of any benefit to the UK as a member of the EU.
Sorry but having heard the interview your account is not biased, it is pure fantasy.
You would say that but it is becoming an unsustainable position that everyone is wrong and only leave is right. Leave will need a better narrative by the time of the debates to have any form of creditability
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other
But Big_G it is Remain who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other.
My advice is never to make a statement which can be reversed and used back at you.
I will make statements that I am content with and will stand by them.
So are you really trying to say people haven't been laughing at Cameron ?
No more than leave trashing every International opinion and threatening a broadcaster with an injunction
There once was a fellow called Stodge Whose opinions some people thought dodge But he said "it's no sin" My MP's Stephen Timms And the next door MP's Margaret Hodge
Comments
As Dave cringed before smug Obama
The yells of an irate old Llama
could be heard in the City
"Our PM's just shitty,
with even less spine than Nick Palmer!"*
*with apols to Nick.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/pictured-star-wars-cast-arrive-in-northern-ireland-ahead-of-episode-eight-filming-luke-skywalker-rey-and-kylo-ren-arrive-at-belfast-international-34711991.html
I'm now off to Scotland for the week, be gentle on older gentlemen of a leavy persuasion while I'm away.
We really need a George is crap thread to restore harmony on PB.
PoliticalLimericks.com
One day all arguments will be resolved this way.
Said Vote REMAIN was where you should be
He swallowed the guff
Emitted from Legarde's old chuff
And became a merkin for Soubry
Is sent to the EU abroad
The results seen in Spain
Are Airports - sans plane
And subsidies in Turkey for Ford
I fear the next 300 comments will have followed the same vein.
If it makes you feel better, I will be selling Kingdom Asunder (and other stories in the trilogy) for a higher price.
As an aside, people who buy my books also (according to Amazon) buy books by Bram Stoker and Marcus Aurelius
Immigration is coming for you.
The population of Scotland
Will live extra in England
What on earth will our NHS do?
Explains, I understand, why golf courses are so busy!
Nick "I was an MP under Brown" Palmer is offering advice on pensions.
Tell me, Nick, how did you vote in the £6 billion a year pension fund raid? You know, the one that led to closure of most final salary schemes.
Where were your precious "workers' protections from the EU" then?
How is your final salary MP's pension doing? I note that's not been closed down.
Spare us your faux concern over private pensions - your party's ignoble record on the subject is too well known.
Cue Alastair Meeks with a "don't rush to judgement" comment.
Yuk.
Don't recoil from just putting the boot in
And when signing your slip
He might leave you a tip
Vladimir Vladimirovych Putin
Stop asserting your own opinion and spin as gospel that everyone agrees with.
They don't.
http://order-order.com/2016/05/13/lagarde-thanks-treasury-for-help-on-independent-eu-report/
Who promised we’d have Götterdämmerung
If the EU we left
We would all be bereft
And would not have a pot to squat down upon.
I am close to guaranteeing this.
Was full of vigour and vim
But when SeanT he roasted,
His address was reposted
And his PB life went in the bin
Worst film ever!
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
Was tired of bending the knee
The words of Mark Carney,
Are not often barmy,
But oh! He wants to be free.
However, given the thread I think it worth mentioning the Spectator is running a contest for an obscene limerick about Erdogan, with a prize of £1,000 for the winner.
with theories on Bilderberg matters
But have an opinion
That's not from a minion
They'll claim it's paid Soviet chatter
Also if inflation looks to be heading above 2% then interest rates will be raised which benefits savers many of whom are pensioners who have suffered from the low interest rates over the last seven years or so.
If other EU countries were not prepared to negotiate substantive changes in these circumstaces (which they weren't) then they are never going to change in a way the UK wants.
Be absolutely clear. If you vote for Remain you are voting for the continuation of the EU project and ever closer union.
Like Milifans they will wake up and rue the day they scorned or disregarded provincial-town low-information voters, Cameron's biggest fans.
'But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other'
You obviously missed last night's This Week where there was much laughter at Dave's world war 3 crap.
I never said everyone was wrong. I said that your account of what Longworth said is fantasy.
And the credibility gap remains with Remain. In case you noticed people are laughing at you not with you.;
No Richard - you are all talking to each other and convincing each other. I do respect your views but like several posters on here have said this forum is becoming very unpleasant and some are giving up until after the 23rd June. I do not want to do that but I will defend my points of view and hopeful argue with respect. Abuse (not you) as some are using indicates a lost argument
You really think people weren't laughing at Cameron when he made his claims of war and genocide if we left? The thing is that all this doom mongering simply isn't working because for some reason the Remain side have decided to go so far over the top that no one takes them seriously. People are laughing at Remain because they have jumped the shark and now everything they say is being viewed through that prism.
But Richard it is leave who are being laughed at - and you are all talking to each other
Nope. Go look at the papers the day Cameron tried to claim Brexit would lead to WW3. They were laughing so hard he had to change his speech. People are scornful of the Remain claims because they are so wildly over the top. Even some of the Remain side on here have seen it. I am amazed you don't.
The mail, sun, telegraph, times and the sun are all brexit so by trusting them you are only talking to yourself. The broadcast media are much more balanced and the interesting issue in this campaign will be to see just how influential the print media will turn out to be
My advice is never to make a statement which can be reversed and used back at you.
What would Tim have said about the referendum?
Could we have him back for a trial week?
5 hours and 9 mins in to the ITV coverage of 'that' night. Matthew Parris predicts that Nigel Farage will resign as leader of UKIP if he does not win S Thanet but he won't resign for long...
The man is a ledge.
Who has never at Goldman dropped anchor
When Carney was hired
Nigel said they'd conspired
Personally I just think he's a
...I'll stop.
The EU will continue to change but become more harmonised, more centralist, more protectionist and continue to spend 40% of its income subsidising an industry (farming) which represents only 3% of Europe's GDP instead of supporting new growth industries.
' Between Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2016 and Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2015, output was estimated to have decreased by 1.9%. '
https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/constructionindustry/bulletins/constructionoutputingreatbritain/mar2016andjantomar2016
Is there anything growing in the UK economy apart from government debt, the trade deficit and the tourism deficit ?
That Brexit meant carnage and war
But his horrifying vision
Caused rampant derision
So it stayed on the cutting room floor
'I am every bit as angry with the EU as leave and want it changing but I believe that is done better by being a member. '
Seriously, how do you explain after hearing for the past twenty years from both Tory & Labour politicians 'the EU needs changing' and yet the only change is more Europe and ever decreasing national sovereignty ?
Dave negotiating on the basis of an In/Out referendum can only get four minor changes that we know can & will get overruled.
There once was a fellow called Stodge
Whose opinions some people thought dodge
But he said "it's no sin"
My MP's Stephen Timms
And the next door MP's Margaret Hodge