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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    Mr. Eagles, there should be one mayor, for all Yorkshire. Having a bit of the South with Derbyshire and a lump of Midlands is just weird.

    My ultimate role is Directly Elected Dictator of Greater Yorkshire.

    A stepping stone for being Directly Elected Dictator of the U.K.
    That’s your “ultimate" goal then. You’d settle for Yorkshirte, as “penultimate" en route to “ultimate”.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222

    Thinking as quickly on his feet as he ever does, Corbyn barely responded to the jibe at the time. But a helpful aide, armed with Google, later tweeted what he claimed was a quote by Einstein: "If most of us are ashamed of shabby clothes and shoddy furniture let us be more ashamed of shabby ideas and shoddy philosophies."

    Wise words and often found in online lists of quotations, but the TMS diary reports that Einstein never said it. It's been misattributed to him for years.

    As Abraham Lincoln once said: "30 per cent of quotes on the internet are made up."

    Given that Corbyn is notable mainly for having held and propagated for the last 40 years some of the shabbiest ideas and philosophies around, he has quite a nerve quoting this saying, whoever said it.
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    Shami Chakrabarti: ‘Who’s the most dangerous person in Britain? David Cameron’

    http://www.theguardian.com/voluntary-sector-network/2016/feb/25/shami-chakrabarti-liberty-david-cameron?CMP=twt_gu
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    JohnO said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    New EU referendum, in Hungary, on whether migrant quotas should be accepted:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35657054

    Not Hungarian, but I'd guess it's a dead cert, and a way of getting clear popular support for a hardline stance.

    It's a good example of what Margaret Thatcher meant when she said that the referendum was a device of demagogues and dictators.
    David Cameron has now held three referendums.

    Which one do you think he is?
    Was it Maggie who said that? I thought it was Churchill.

    My thought is was Attlee.
    Googled it and it appears to be Attlee’s originially. Thatcher credited him with it in her 1975 speech on the matter.
    Can’t find where Attlee said it, so iot might have been in conversation or an interview. Attlee actually said despots not demagogues.
    Again from memory it was in response to a suggestion by Churchill in 1945 that a referendum be held on continuing the wartime coalition beyond the defeat of Germany to further postpone the date of the general election.
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    Polish male employment is 94%!!
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    I went to a primary school close to Leeds. Vague memories of discussing Savile being a kiddy fiddler were occasionally had in the playground.

    We must have been very informed children to discuss matters that even Savile's own colleagues didn't apparently know about.
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    Polish male employment is 94%!!

    The other 6% are probably working but all cash in hand...
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988

    Polish male employment is 94%!!

    Same as it will be after Cameron's benefit changes and the introduction of the living wage
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    Wow. Employment rate of Somali women is just 10%!!

    Is the male rate that much higher?
    Male rate for Somalis is 40%, so four times higher, similar to Iranian men. But Iranian women are higher - 49%!!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Why do you hate immigrants ? Listen to the podcast and the love Carswell has for immigrants.
    I don't, but along with the aging population it puts more pressure on housing and services. In particular the idea of a free market for housing is a complete non starter given most of the country supports some form of planning laws.

    The combination of unfettered immigration and a perfectly natural desire to have some sort of planning rule on housing is one of free market demand and de facto state controlled supply. It is a poor combination.
    But remember immigration is good for the economy

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/immigrants-boost-the-economy-says-niesr-8921634.html
    I urge you to take this message to Page Hall in the upcoming Brightside by-election.
    Well if I'm chosen as the Tory candidate, I shall.
    Have you put your name into the hat ?
    Not yet, but I've been urged to.

    For some reason people think I should become an MP or possibly the Sheffield City Region Mayor.
    I think you should stand.
    My problem, apart from the pay cut, is that I'm commendably honest. I'd get into constant trouble with my utterances.

    Like 'If you lost out on the job market to someone who moved here and can barely speak English, stop whining about immigrants and improve your skill set'
    Perhaps Tony Blair was right about ID cards for NHS treatment. Perhaps ensuring it was very difficult to be either a benefit or health care tourist would mean a warmer welcome for working migrants ?
    As a rule I'm opposed to ID cards.

    But I see that idea having merits.

    My Grandfather was genuinely touched by how warmly he was received as a working immigrant here, so it would work to dip into the majority of Brits who welcome working immigrants.
    Perhaps if you had a British passport you wouldnt need one - or something.

    But surely its not beyond the wit nor will of a government ?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    Press Gazette
    Rotherham sex gang victim: 'Only reason police started this investigation is because The Times printed my story' https://t.co/8MfJtYbyxb

    The Independent Police Commission has begun 55 investigations into alleged police misconduct linked to Rotherham child sex crimes. It has received complaints against 92 named officers.

    Jesus wept..... What the hell was going on in South Yorkshire Police?
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    Wow. Employment rate of Somali women is just 10%!!

    Is the male rate that much higher?
    Male rate for Somalis is 40%, so four times higher, similar to Iranian men. But Iranian women are higher - 49%!!
    So still piss poor basically.
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Polruan said:

    chestnut said:

    One thing that needs to be said in favour of new arrivals from EU2 countries, and indeed EU8 ones, is that they have a very high employment rate - higher than UK nationals, in fact.

    When we look at the detail of poor employment rates and high rates of welfare dependency, it's other groups from beyond the EU that figure most prominently.

    How does that break down? Presumably if they are non-EU nationals then they are here under some kind of visa that we have decided it's in Britain's interests to grant. I can see that foreign students would skew the employment figures, and refugees are taken on compassionate grounds whereby we accept that they may not be a net benefit to our economy (in the short-medium term at least), but what on basis would the remaining under-employed/welfare dependent non-EU groups be here?
    I found this, but its from 2008 so maybe out of date.

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lmac/employment-of-foreign-workers/employment-of-foreign-workers-male-and-female-labour-market-participation/employment-of-foreign-workers--male-and-female-labour-market-participation.pdf

    Lowest rate is Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Highest rate is South Africans.
    Thanks. Interesting study. Does appear to be based on country of birth though, not non-UK nationals, you'd assume many of those referred to hold UK passports.

    Also appears to be looking at labour market participation rather than unemployment, which is a different issue... obviously the entitlement to out-of-work benefits etc is very limited in the case of a non-working spouse.
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    Mr. Mark, collusion, incompetence and literally turning a blind eye to widespread rape in the name of political correctness, if the allegations are true.

    I do think there's a dangerously low level of trust in policing. Political influence affects not only the Rotherham cases (no action or even active collusion, allegedly) but the zealous persecution, with little or no cause, of old men in London by Hogan-Howe.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    I went to a primary school close to Leeds. Vague memories of discussing Savile being a kiddy fiddler were occasionally had in the playground.

    We must have been very informed children to discuss matters that even Savile's own colleagues didn't apparently know about.

    Saville’s colleagues appear to have been aware, according to the report as published on the BBC site. They just didn’t pass anything up the chain, largely because he was “talent” and as such any improprieties should be ignored.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    With unemployment down to 5.1% and the number of vacancies per unemployed having halved in just over two years, it's just as well we've got all these immigrants coming to fill them.

    Net immigration will reduce under one of the following circumstances:

    1) Britain's economy falters.
    2) The rest of the EU's economy picks up.
    3) We voluntarily decide to sabotage our own economy by preventing people from coming to do the jobs that employers think need doing.

    There is a very longterm solution of training more of our economically inactive to do the work, but that's not going to happen overnight or indeed in a few years.

    If we have this nirvana on employment , why is the benefits bill so colossal.
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    malcolmg said:

    With unemployment down to 5.1% and the number of vacancies per unemployed having halved in just over two years, it's just as well we've got all these immigrants coming to fill them.

    Net immigration will reduce under one of the following circumstances:

    1) Britain's economy falters.
    2) The rest of the EU's economy picks up.
    3) We voluntarily decide to sabotage our own economy by preventing people from coming to do the jobs that employers think need doing.

    There is a very longterm solution of training more of our economically inactive to do the work, but that's not going to happen overnight or indeed in a few years.

    If we have this nirvana on employment , why is the benefits bill so colossal.
    In work benefits that can only be cured by progressive move to higher wages as per new National Living Wage
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047
    edited February 2016

    Mr. Mark, collusion, incompetence and literally turning a blind eye to widespread rape in the name of political correctness, if the allegations are true.

    I do think there's a dangerously low level of trust in policing. Political influence affects not only the Rotherham cases (no action or even active collusion, allegedly) but the zealous persecution, with little or no cause, of old men in London by Hogan-Howe.

    Agree; I suspect that “trust” was largely a middle-class thing and that the change is that the middle and ipper classes are now as suspicious of the police as the working class were once upon a time.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Telegraph have some great readers letters today

    #LetterstotheEditor: A man troubled by prostitutes wrote indignantly on November 17 1855 https://t.co/oOI1nruJAH https://t.co/ANCKxH79mq
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2016
    I'm not entirely sure what the grievance is with people that come into the country, support themselves, integrate reasonably well, have cultural compatibility, work hard and pay taxes.

    The problem is people that expect or need to be supported, who won't integrate and who drain taxes.

    We grow enough of our own who fulfil at least two of those criteria.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    As a rule I'm opposed to ID cards.

    But I see that idea having merits.

    My Grandfather was genuinely touched by how warmly he was received as a working immigrant here, so it would work to dip into the majority of Brits who welcome working immigrants.

    Perhaps we could call them "Entitlement Cards"

    I mentioned on here a month or two ago that ID cards were going to come back on the agenda. There have been the odd article her and there in the press pushing their benefits, they are also, so I am told, being again mentioned in civil service discussion papers and now they are cropping up on here. Once we vote to stay in the EU and Cameron goes I think we can expect them to come back into politicians' open speech. The idea of ID cards is beloved by the Civil Service and they are too useful a tool of government in the modern age to be ignored for long.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited February 2016

    I went to a primary school close to Leeds. Vague memories of discussing Savile being a kiddy fiddler were occasionally had in the playground.

    We must have been very informed children to discuss matters that even Savile's own colleagues didn't apparently know about.

    Saville’s colleagues appear to have been aware, according to the report as published on the BBC site. They just didn’t pass anything up the chain, largely because he was “talent” and as such any improprieties should be ignored.
    Very believable. Everybody knew, except when it got to a certain level. The upper management must be really cut off from the shop floor. Sounds like a terribly run business if that is true.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    malcolmg said:

    With unemployment down to 5.1% and the number of vacancies per unemployed having halved in just over two years, it's just as well we've got all these immigrants coming to fill them.

    Net immigration will reduce under one of the following circumstances:

    1) Britain's economy falters.
    2) The rest of the EU's economy picks up.
    3) We voluntarily decide to sabotage our own economy by preventing people from coming to do the jobs that employers think need doing.

    There is a very longterm solution of training more of our economically inactive to do the work, but that's not going to happen overnight or indeed in a few years.

    If we have this nirvana on employment , why is the benefits bill so colossal.
    Because Gordon Brown thought it was a good idea to subsidise employers by giving larger in work benefits.
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Wow. Employment rate of Somali women is just 10%!!

    Is the male rate that much higher?
    Male rate for Somalis is 40%, so four times higher, similar to Iranian men. But Iranian women are higher - 49%!!
    So still piss poor basically.
    What on earth are they doing here ?

    Adding to the cultural gaiety of the nation ??
    At least the polish builders & plumbers fix up your kitchen and bathroom.
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    Mr. Llama, I hope you're wrong on ID cards. They're a rancid idea that belong in dystopian fiction, like perpetual revisionism of history or the Ministry of Justice.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,846

    Mr. Eagles, there should be one mayor, for all Yorkshire. Having a bit of the South with Derbyshire and a lump of Midlands is just weird.

    My ultimate role is Directly Elected Dictator of Greater Yorkshire.

    A stepping stone for being Directly Elected Dictator of the U.K.
    That’s your “ultimate" goal then. You’d settle for Yorkshirte, as “penultimate" en route to “ultimate”.
    Or TSE's Yorkshire has a Putin like appetite for expansionism?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    National day of Benefit sanctions you say ? I'll be up for that one.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    I'm definitely feeling right wing vibes this morning, probably all that betting on Trump :D
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    Pulpstar said:

    I'm definitely feeling right wing vibes this morning, probably all that betting on Trump :D

    https://www.conservatives.com/join
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    Pulpstar said:

    Wow. Employment rate of Somali women is just 10%!!

    Is the male rate that much higher?
    Male rate for Somalis is 40%, so four times higher, similar to Iranian men. But Iranian women are higher - 49%!!
    So still piss poor basically.
    What on earth are they doing here ?

    Adding to the cultural gaiety of the nation ??
    At least the polish builders & plumbers fix up your kitchen and bathroom.
    It is basically impossible to send anybody back to Somalia. And 2nd generation as a group are performing badly at school etc etc etc, where as Polish offspring are boosting attainment figures.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    Pulpstar said:

    Wow. Employment rate of Somali women is just 10%!!

    Is the male rate that much higher?
    Male rate for Somalis is 40%, so four times higher, similar to Iranian men. But Iranian women are higher - 49%!!
    So still piss poor basically.
    What on earth are they doing here ?

    Adding to the cultural gaiety of the nation ??
    At least the polish builders & plumbers fix up your kitchen and bathroom.
    Refugees innit?

    Ooh la lala

    Who is going to drive looky looky north London minicabs and chew chat if these boys aren't here? Not our feckless yoof
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,360

    Mr. Mark, collusion, incompetence and literally turning a blind eye to widespread rape in the name of political correctness, if the allegations are true.

    I do think there's a dangerously low level of trust in policing. Political influence affects not only the Rotherham cases (no action or even active collusion, allegedly) but the zealous persecution, with little or no cause, of old men in London by Hogan-Howe.

    Agree; I suspect that “trust” was larfgely a middle-class thing and that the change is that the middle and ipper classes are now as suspicious of the police as the working class were once upon a time.
    I remember reading an analysis that dated the change to the spread of motoring prosecutions, aided by speed cameras. Before that, most middle-class people never encountered the police except as customers seeking their help, so they saw them as entirely benevolent. Once they'd had a few speeding tickets, in some cases with marginal arguments about fairness, they started to share the resentment which working-class people often had after comparable minor brushes with the law.

    An anecdote that I've mentioned before: a teenage constituent told me that he and a friend had been "moved on" by a policeman for sitting chatting on a public bench, because a householder a hundred yards away had complained that they might be discussing how to break into his house. The teenager, a well-spoken young man dressed unexceptionably, felt that the policeman had clearly decided that the irrational fears of householders took priority over young people sitting harmlessly in a public space, and that had made him less favourable to the police than before. Assuming the facts were as described, I thought he had a perfectly reasonable point. I've heard similar things from black people, who say they get stopped when just going about their business.

    It's clearly not easy for the police to strike the right balance, but it only takes the odd incident like that to sour people.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    Pulpstar said:

    Wow. Employment rate of Somali women is just 10%!!

    Is the male rate that much higher?
    Male rate for Somalis is 40%, so four times higher, similar to Iranian men. But Iranian women are higher - 49%!!
    So still piss poor basically.
    What on earth are they doing here ?

    Adding to the cultural gaiety of the nation ??
    At least the polish builders & plumbers fix up your kitchen and bathroom.
    It is basically impossible to send anybody back to Somalia. And 2nd generation as a group are performing badly at school etc etc etc, where as Polish offspring are boosting attainment figures.
    Major athletics figures? And there are very old, long integrated, Somali communities in Cardiff and South Shields.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    edited February 2016

    Press Gazette
    Rotherham sex gang victim: 'Only reason police started this investigation is because The Times printed my story' https://t.co/8MfJtYbyxb

    The Independent Police Commission has begun 55 investigations into alleged police misconduct linked to Rotherham child sex crimes. It has received complaints against 92 named officers.

    Jesus wept..... What the hell was going on in South Yorkshire Police?
    Jahangir Khan involved I see... Posts mentioning him used to get deleted by 'the moderator'
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Mark, collusion, incompetence and literally turning a blind eye to widespread rape in the name of political correctness, if the allegations are true.

    I do think there's a dangerously low level of trust in policing. Political influence affects not only the Rotherham cases (no action or even active collusion, allegedly) but the zealous persecution, with little or no cause, of old men in London by Hogan-Howe.

    Agree; I suspect that “trust” was larfgely a middle-class thing and that the change is that the middle and ipper classes are now as suspicious of the police as the working class were once upon a time.
    Mr. Cole, your suspicions are greatly misplaced. My wife was a copper for nearly twenty years working both shitty council estates in Brighton and "nice" areas. She always maintained that the reception she received from the denizens of Moulscomb (expressed in cups of tea per hour) was much higher than in Middle Class areas.

    She is of the opinion that the difference between how the police are perceived now (and she has very little time for them) and then is due to the fact that the police have removed themselves from the community and have lost their integrity ("fat, lazy, ill-disciplined and useless").
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    Mr. Mark, collusion, incompetence and literally turning a blind eye to widespread rape in the name of political correctness, if the allegations are true.

    I do think there's a dangerously low level of trust in policing. Political influence affects not only the Rotherham cases (no action or even active collusion, allegedly) but the zealous persecution, with little or no cause, of old men in London by Hogan-Howe.

    Agree; I suspect that “trust” was larfgely a middle-class thing and that the change is that the middle and ipper classes are now as suspicious of the police as the working class were once upon a time.
    Mr. Cole, your suspicions are greatly misplaced. My wife was a copper for nearly twenty years working both shitty council estates in Brighton and "nice" areas. She always maintained that the reception she received from the denizens of Moulscomb (expressed in cups of tea per hour) was much higher than in Middle Class areas.

    She is of the opinion that the difference between how the police are perceived now (and she has very little time for them) and then is due to the fact that the police have removed themselves from the community and have lost their integrity ("fat, lazy, ill-disciplined and useless").
    Always wise to keep in with the coppers.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited February 2016
    Democrat Super Tuesday Forecast (Regular delegates)

    Clinton 612
    Sanders 409
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Holy Cow

    Dame Janet is absolutely appalling in this BBC press conference.

    Superior, smug, not interested in victims lack of faith in her conclusions. She's beyond the archetypal Establishment figure. 1/10.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And who believes this? Seriously? Rising stars always know gossip and pass it upwards to win points.

    I went to a primary school close to Leeds. Vague memories of discussing Savile being a kiddy fiddler were occasionally had in the playground.

    We must have been very informed children to discuss matters that even Savile's own colleagues didn't apparently know about.

    Saville’s colleagues appear to have been aware, according to the report as published on the BBC site. They just didn’t pass anything up the chain, largely because he was “talent” and as such any improprieties should be ignored.
    Very believable. Everybody knew, except when it got to a certain level. The upper management must be really cut off from the shop floor. Sounds like a terribly run business if that is true.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Democrat Super Tuesday Forecast (Regular delegates)

    Clinton 612
    Sanders 409

    your forecast? or someone elses? are there any markets?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited February 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    Democrat Super Tuesday Forecast (Regular delegates)

    Clinton 612
    Sanders 409

    your forecast? or someone elses? are there any markets?
    My work, cribbed from Rod's GOP spreadsheet.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/112R0zDRQLC2cxE1op0TY-IBq_PTtcxpwgfbu87DI45w/edit?usp=sharing

    It won't be entirely accurate yet as the polling data for some places is very old.

    I expect Sanders to beat that a touch actually.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966


    There is a very longterm solution of training more of our economically inactive to do the work, but that's not going to happen overnight or indeed in a few years.

    The most valuable training by far happens in the workplace and is never going to happen while employers have a cheaper option.

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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Dan Hodges
    According to Smith report "In 1973, Douglas Muggeridge, the Controller of Radio 1 and 2 heard rumours about Savile’s sexual impropriety"...

    Apparently these weren't senior managers. FFS.
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    I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ag4nkSh7Q
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    TGOHF said:

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

    When you have your benefits reduced because of any one of a number of transgressions, for example, not taking a job when offered
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    "My conclusion is certain junior & mid ranking individuals were aware of Savile’s inappropriate conduct" << always protect people at the top
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    And who believes this? Seriously? Rising stars always know gossip and pass it upwards to win points.

    I went to a primary school close to Leeds. Vague memories of discussing Savile being a kiddy fiddler were occasionally had in the playground.

    We must have been very informed children to discuss matters that even Savile's own colleagues didn't apparently know about.

    Saville’s colleagues appear to have been aware, according to the report as published on the BBC site. They just didn’t pass anything up the chain, largely because he was “talent” and as such any improprieties should be ignored.
    Very believable. Everybody knew, except when it got to a certain level. The upper management must be really cut off from the shop floor. Sounds like a terribly run business if that is true.
    Come on, Miss Plato, you know how the game is played. La Smith has said she found no evidence that senior figures knew what was going on. I am sure that is true. Whether she looked or how hard she looked is another matter.

    I am reminded of the Desmond Glazebrook approach to investigation of financial impropriety in the City, "First hint of trouble, have the chap up for lunch and ask him, straight out, if there is anything in it".
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    Dan Hodges
    According to Smith report "In 1973, Douglas Muggeridge, the Controller of Radio 1 and 2 heard rumours about Savile’s sexual impropriety"...

    Apparently these weren't senior managers. FFS.

    Interesting description of not senior manager. Controller of R1 / R2 just a lowly drone.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Electoral Commission
    We've just published details on donations and loans made to political parties in Q4 2015. See our release here: https://t.co/gpHshx73iP
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    One thing I am concerned about - is that the progress of the EU will inevitably lead to the scrapping of the Jury system in the UK as the legal processes are harmonised.
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    Miss Plato, I don't know what you mean. I promise you, there are no American tanks in Baghdad.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited February 2016
    I don't know why but I have the Jim'll Fix It theme tune going around in my head...

    Your letter was only the start of it
    1 letter and now ur a part of it
    now you've done it JimJanet has fixed it for u
    and u and u
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Failing to sign on as required or not having evidence of job searching.

    TGOHF said:

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

    When you have your benefits reduced because of any one of a number of transgressions, for example, not taking a job when offered
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,846
    edited February 2016

    Dan Hodges
    According to Smith report "In 1973, Douglas Muggeridge, the Controller of Radio 1 and 2 heard rumours about Savile’s sexual impropriety"...

    Apparently these weren't senior managers. FFS.

    Interesting description of not senior manager. Controller of R1 / R2 just a lowly drone.
    Perhaps the relevant semantics here are not around the definition of 'senior', but the distinction between 'knew' and 'heard rumours'? The extent to which that distinction was tested when asking what Muggeridge (and others) knew would be key in assessing whether the report has come to a reasonable final conclusion on this specific point.
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    The Smith enquiry is about as convincing as the Hutton enquiry was.
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    Andy Coulson shares the view that I take that David Cameron made a strategic mistake in slapping down Boris Johnson:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson/12171839/The-Prime-Minister-shouldnt-engage-in-hand-to-hand-combat-with-Boris.html
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

    When you have your benefits reduced because of any one of a number of transgressions, for example, not taking a job when offered
    So a broad section of society expected at these days of action ?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited February 2016
    Honestly, watch Dame Janet on replay, she's awful.

    Her bit claiming to regret that victims didn't feel her report was accurate is just urgh. She's as high handed and unconvincing as I've ever heard. She sounded like she was talking to the bottom of her shoe.

    My mouth fell open.

    Tony Hall was pretty good, Rhona Fairhead is reading a press release with zero feeling

    The Smith enquiry is about as convincing as the Hutton enquiry was.

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    SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?
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    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    I hope that the Labour party maximise their support for this and feature in the news reports.
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    SandraM said:

    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?

    Louis Theroux....
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Well quite. And didn't he go there with Anthony Clare too?

    SandraM said:

    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?

    Louis Theroux....
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Have to say, Tony Hall isn't convincing me over Blackburn at all.

    He's never been a target until now, today his life is over 45yrs later.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Andy Coulson shares the view that I take that David Cameron made a strategic mistake in slapping down Boris Johnson:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson/12171839/The-Prime-Minister-shouldnt-engage-in-hand-to-hand-combat-with-Boris.html

    Interesting idea of setting May on Boris, if she's up for it.
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    Honestly, watch Dame Janet on replay, she's awful.

    Her bit claiming to regret that victims didn't feel her report was accurate is just urgh. She's as high handed and unconvincing as I've ever heard. She sounded like she was talking to the bottom of her shoe.

    My mouth fell open.

    Tony Hall was pretty good, Rhona Fairhead is reading a press release with zero feeling

    The Smith enquiry is about as convincing as the Hutton enquiry was.

    I didn't switch over until later into the broadcast. Will have a butchers this afternoon.
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    Well quite. And didn't he go there with Anthony Clare too?

    SandraM said:

    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?

    Louis Theroux....
    I wonder how high it went to decide to cut John Lydon's comments?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Does anyone know if @JosiasJessop is okay?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh I don't know about that? What was it?

    Well quite. And didn't he go there with Anthony Clare too?

    SandraM said:

    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?

    Louis Theroux....
    I wonder how high it went to decide to cut John Lydon's comments?
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    Miss Plato, Miss Jones asked the other day, but it seemed unclear, unfortunately.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited February 2016

    Oh I don't know about that? What was it?

    Well quite. And didn't he go there with Anthony Clare too?

    SandraM said:

    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?

    Louis Theroux....
    I wonder how high it went to decide to cut John Lydon's comments?
    I can't remember the exact quote, but in 1978 he gave a radio interview and basically he said he would like to kill him because of what an evil man he was and that bit got cut. And he since clarified and said everybody in the biz knew and he was disgusted by it.
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    Political donations between 1 October and 31 December 2015,

    Conservative Party – £5,152,334
    Labour Party – £2,669,241
    Liberal Democrats – £828,657
    UKIP – £196,282
    BNP – £180,000
    SNP – £54,030

    Who the hell gave the BNP £180k? And doesn't seem anybody wants to give UKIP much money.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060

    Political donations between 1 October and 31 December 2015,

    Conservative Party – £5,152,334
    Labour Party – £2,669,241
    Liberal Democrats – £828,657
    UKIP – £196,282
    BNP – £180,000
    SNP – £54,030

    Who the hell gave the BNP £180k? And doesn't seem anybody wants to give UKIP much money.

    150k of the BNP donation was from a single individual

    Very surprised that the LibDems outraise UKIP 4-1
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Who the hell gave the BNP £180k? And doesn't seem anybody wants to give UKIP much money.

    The relatively small number of donors the kippers have are probably pouring all their spare cash into the Leave campaigns, they don't have luxury of the government paying their bills unlike the Remain campaign.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    TGOHF said:

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

    When you have your benefits reduced because of any one of a number of transgressions, for example, not taking a job when offered
    Also when Jobcentre staff decide to change the date or time a claimant is required to sign on. The claimant is sent a letter but if he fails to receive it in time and does not appear at the new time he/she is sanctioned. There has been clear evidence of managers doing this quite deliberately to meet targets imposed on them.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    SandraM said:

    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?

    Louis Theroux....
    Much of the stuff about Saville that turned out to be true was on the Popbitch website over a decade ago. Enough people clearly knew, yet nothing happened.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Link to this evidence?
    justin124 said:

    TGOHF said:

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

    When you have your benefits reduced because of any one of a number of transgressions, for example, not taking a job when offered
    Also when Jobcentre staff decide to change the date or time a claimant is required to sign on. The claimant is sent a letter but if he fails to receive it in time and does not appear at the new time he/she is sanctioned. There has been clear evidence of managers doing this quite deliberately to meet targets imposed on them.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited February 2016
    I am acquainted with people at the DWP who do the job and have been pressured by their managers to behave in this way! I also am aware of two people who found this culture so unethical and stressful that they left.
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    Link to this evidence?

    justin124 said:

    TGOHF said:

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

    When you have your benefits reduced because of any one of a number of transgressions, for example, not taking a job when offered
    Also when Jobcentre staff decide to change the date or time a claimant is required to sign on. The claimant is sent a letter but if he fails to receive it in time and does not appear at the new time he/she is sanctioned. There has been clear evidence of managers doing this quite deliberately to meet targets imposed on them.
    I'm currently claiming JSA.
    When signing on they tell you what time to sign on in a fortnights time.
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Link to this evidence?

    justin124 said:

    TGOHF said:

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

    When you have your benefits reduced because of any one of a number of transgressions, for example, not taking a job when offered
    Also when Jobcentre staff decide to change the date or time a claimant is required to sign on. The claimant is sent a letter but if he fails to receive it in time and does not appear at the new time he/she is sanctioned. There has been clear evidence of managers doing this quite deliberately to meet targets imposed on them.
    For example

    http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/work-and-pensions-committee/benefit-sanctions-policy-beyond-the-oakley-review/written/16165.html
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    Mr. Pubgoer, best of luck :)
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    Andy Coulson shares the view that I take that David Cameron made a strategic mistake in slapping down Boris Johnson:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson/12171839/The-Prime-Minister-shouldnt-engage-in-hand-to-hand-combat-with-Boris.html

    I don't think May has the right to question anyone on loyalty and motive.
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    I have just started to watch the Tony Hall live interviews and when a journalist "Neil Midgeley" asked him.
    Qn - I understand that you have not personally sacked a person for bullying or intimidation, why not?
    Hall waffled on about how there were fewer bullying allegations in 14/15 than 13/14. The journalist repeated the question.
    Hall offered to go through later, all the last year's cases and then said "does your organisation have less bullying" or words to that effect.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988

    SandraM said:

    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?

    Louis Theroux....
    Very awkward here

    http://youtu.be/-mJ4a0ODPBM
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I signed on for a month a couple of years ago, and the JSA chap was gobsmacked at my efforts to find work. I didn't think it was extraordinary.

    Then again, I actually wanted to get a job.

    Link to this evidence?

    justin124 said:

    TGOHF said:

    National Day of Action against benefit sanctions on 9th March.I hope Pbers will join their local actions.

    What are "benefit sanctions" ?

    When you have your benefits reduced because of any one of a number of transgressions, for example, not taking a job when offered
    Also when Jobcentre staff decide to change the date or time a claimant is required to sign on. The claimant is sent a letter but if he fails to receive it in time and does not appear at the new time he/she is sanctioned. There has been clear evidence of managers doing this quite deliberately to meet targets imposed on them.
    I'm currently claiming JSA.
    When signing on they tell you what time to sign on in a fortnights time.
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2016
    Re: BBC and the culture of fear permeating it. Best way to fix it is to reduce it in size and allow more media players in. It is the BBC's size and the way it is able to intimidate people not wanting to fall fowl of the folk controlling work and appointments and new contracts etc.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I heard that exchange too, resort of the scoundrel.

    I have just started to watch the Tony Hall live interviews and when a journalist "Neil Midgeley" asked him.
    Qn - I understand that you have not personally sacked a person for bullying or intimidation, why not?
    Hall waffled on about how there were fewer bullying allegations in 14/15 than 13/14. The journalist repeated the question.
    Hall offered to go through later, all the last year's cases and then said "does your organisation have less bullying" or words to that effect.

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    Re: Blackburn.
    So the BBC acts against one of its folk on a short term contract who has the least legal protection, whilst no one is disciplined in the hierachy over looking the other way when abuse went on.....
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    watford30 said:

    SandraM said:

    Re: Savile. The Journalist Lynn Barbour put it to Savile in an interview published in 1990 that there were persistent rumours that he was sexually interested in little girls. Of course he denied it.

    Given that rumours had appeared in print, why didn't senior management insist that children were chaperoned when anywhere near him?

    Louis Theroux....
    Much of the stuff about Saville that turned out to be true was on the Popbitch website over a decade ago. Enough people clearly knew, yet nothing happened.
    Icke outed Savile as a necrophiliac ten years ago.

    Popbitch named Rolf Harris at a time when people never have believed it.
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    If TSE is on the site, AV is on the BBC2 prog soon.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,904
    off topic...

    I had flu last week and now have a cold. I am thoroughly pissed off.

    Will there be less colds outside the EU? If Boris can co can promise me that I might switch.
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    Re: BBC and the culture of fear permeating it. Best way to fix it is to reduce it in size and allow more media players in. It is the BBC's size and the way it is able to intimidate people not wanting to fall fowl of the folk controlling work and appointments and new contracts etc.

    The same people also do keep recirculating in BBC programmes, its favoured artistes. It strikes me as most notable in comedy and sketch programmes where self indulgence is paraded as talent.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Jonathan said:

    off topic...

    I had flu last week and now have a cold. I am thoroughly pissed off.

    Will there be less colds outside the EU? If Boris can co can promise me that I might switch.


    If there is less immigration and bringing new diseases in, then the answer to your question is yes!

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    Mr. Jonathan, no, but there may be fewer colds ;)

    Hope your pestilence abates promptly.
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    Re: BBC and the culture of fear permeating it. Best way to fix it is to reduce it in size and allow more media players in. It is the BBC's size and the way it is able to intimidate people not wanting to fall fowl of the folk controlling work and appointments and new contracts etc.

    The same people also do keep recirculating in BBC programmes, its favoured artistes. It strikes me as most notable in comedy and sketch programmes where self indulgence is paraded as talent.
    Very true and into radio 5 interviews to promote their new book and tour etc etc.
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    Re: Blackburn.
    So the BBC acts against one of its folk on a short term contract who has the least legal protection, whilst no one is disciplined in the hierachy over looking the other way when abuse went on.....

    Indeed - Tony Blackburn appears to have been the DG’s chosen fall guy to carry the can. Fortunately he is not going down without a fight as Blackburn has said he had been left with no choice but to sue and would not allow the corporation to destroy his reputation.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/feb/25/tony-blackburn-says-he-will-sue-the-bbc-after-alleged-sacking
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    Jonathan said:

    off topic...

    I had flu last week and now have a cold. I am thoroughly pissed off.

    Will there be less colds outside the EU? If Boris can co can promise me that I might switch.

    Bugger that, toast will be better with Brexit!

    https://twitter.com/DavidCoburnUKip/status/702797562827436032
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    Mr. Pubgoer, best of luck :)

    Thank you MD
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519
    edited February 2016
    Jonathan said:

    off topic...

    I had flu last week and now have a cold. I am thoroughly pissed off.

    Will there be less colds outside the EU? If Boris can co can promise me that I might switch.

    Use a probiotic. You'll get less colds.

    Oops, just seen Morris_Dancers' post, FEWER colds, naughty me.
This discussion has been closed.