“Labour already needs a 1997-sized lead to get a majority of just one seat. It looks as if it’s going to be even more difficult on these numbers,” Mr Baston said.
They said stuff like that in 1992. Labour could never win a majority again they said.
Guff like this was spouted about the Conservatives in 2015 too. The electoral bias in this country is always changing anyhow. It could be true for 2020 mind - we'll see.
Good! Really it would not be a disaster for many papers to shut down comments on all political topics for the next 4 months - they'll just turn into vicious arguments or vicious echo chambers no matter how 'sober' the articles try to be. Hell, sober analysis will only make it worse as people get angry at the soberness.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
“Labour already needs a 1997-sized lead to get a majority of just one seat. It looks as if it’s going to be even more difficult on these numbers,” Mr Baston said.
They said stuff like that in 1992. Labour could never win a majority again they said.
Well they might in 2025 under the leadership of Dan Jarvis or Liz Kendall. Corbyn is the most useless leader of the two main political parties I can remember and my memory stretches back to Heath/Wilson
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
The reports don't say Cameron is going after Gove. They say Cameron is being urged by some anonymous people to remove Gove. I'm sure Cameron won't. It's just the Telegraph stirring.
You sound like someone who would believe "friends of the minister" as really being the source. There's no way his aides would be giving full quotes to the press without the PM's permission. The Telegraph isn't making up those quotes.
Cameron prolly won't sack him, but its a warning shot across his bow to take a lower profile in campaign.
“Labour already needs a 1997-sized lead to get a majority of just one seat. It looks as if it’s going to be even more difficult on these numbers,” Mr Baston said.
They said stuff like that in 1992. Labour could never win a majority again they said.
In 2015 they said the Tories needed a majority of 10% for a majority.
In this instance, any recovery in Scotland by Labour is going to reduce that 13% by a lot.
Gove has conducted himself with the utmost integrity and done everything possible to act with dignity, and keep it non-personal.
If Cameron pushes him too far, and it turns nasty; I think he will walk.
I can't see any upside to firing Gove, or to pushing him into a position where he has no choice but to resign. I can see an enormous downside, and I can't believe Cameron would be so stupid. That really would trigger an almighty conflict within the Conservative Party, because it would show that the promise of a free vote was a sham.
Think its clear at this point that Cameron cares more about EU membership than integrity of Tory party.
Though of course after waging all out war on Leave supporters, he'll then demand reconciliation and unity afterwards.
David Cameron is up for this because it will define his legacy not because of his liking of the EU. As for posters on here jumping on every story as if it was fact based when most of the print media seem to have lost all sense of balance is unwise. I cannot think for one minute that DC would demote Gove, but he may promote him to higher office but not in Justice
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
Too many Leave supporters will not forgive Cameron for beating them.
That's the nub of it, and really, they should get over themselves. Cameron has delivered on his commitment to hold a referendum. No-one can seriously cry foul that he is on the other side of the argument. The leave campaign has had years or even decades to form a coherent narrative and movement to convince the people to vote to leave. If it doesn't happen now the recriminations should be in their own camp.
The problem hasn't been so much his backing of Remain but gutter tactics against his own party in carrying out that support.
His tactics have not helped, but I do not believe for one second there would not have been a sizable portion who could not accept anything he did on this issue if he opposed them.
A shame really - of those on offer, if Remain were to win I'd prefer Cameron to stay on, but struggle to see how he can last long with this much bitterness in evidence.
Should Leave win, well, I get the main thing and will have to hope Boris is a moderate, safe pair of hands.
Right but its like how many MPs who supported Leave. There would have been a hardcore who would always done it, but its much bigger number because of Cameron's poor negotiation. This time hardcore few would have always seen Cameron betraying them, but it will be bulk of party because of his skullduggery.
I mean he basically accused Johnson of only having his position for careerist reasons on floor of Commons, but gets offended by Leave supporters voicing their legal opinion??
Too many Leave supporters will not forgive Cameron for beating them.
That's the nub of it, and really, they should get over themselves. Cameron has delivered on his commitment to hold a referendum. No-one can seriously cry foul that he is on the other side of the argument. The leave campaign has had years or even decades to form a coherent narrative and movement to convince the people to vote to leave. If it doesn't happen now the recriminations should be in their own camp.
The problem hasn't been so much his backing of Remain but gutter tactics against his own party in carrying out that support.
Cameron is just behaving with the ruthlessness needed of all effective leaders.
The Remain case is a perfectly respectable one. Cameron has delivered a referendum and a deal, whatever one might think of it. The government's position is to recommend Remain. Of course, Cameron is going to do whatever it takes to win it.
Leave have not so far go their act together and it's not as if they haven't had plenty of time to prepare. That is not Cameron's fault.
I have never been a particular fan of Cameron or his EU deal. But I think there is rather too much looking at the motes in other's eyes rather than in the beams in one's own by the Leave campaign.
“Labour already needs a 1997-sized lead to get a majority of just one seat. It looks as if it’s going to be even more difficult on these numbers,” Mr Baston said.
They said stuff like that in 1992. Labour could never win a majority again they said.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
Hunt's reforms "not cost effective" and the NHS could use the money better. This chap (Professor Matt Sutton, Professor of Health Economics) knows what he's talking about at today's Health Select Committee unlike Hunt who makes it up as he goes along. Of course the government will ignore the evidence and waste money.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
The reports don't say Cameron is going after Gove. They say Cameron is being urged by some anonymous people to remove Gove. I'm sure Cameron won't. It's just the Telegraph stirring.
You sound like someone who would believe "friends of the minister" as really being the source. There's no way his aides would be giving full quotes to the press without the PM's permission. The Telegraph isn't making up those quotes.
Cameron prolly won't sack him, but its a warning shot across his bow to take a lower profile in campaign.
I think you are right but Gove should go for it and to hell with the threats.
Gove has conducted himself with the utmost integrity and done everything possible to act with dignity, and keep it non-personal.
If Cameron pushes him too far, and it turns nasty; I think he will walk.
I can't see any upside to firing Gove, or to pushing him into a position where he has no choice but to resign. I can see an enormous downside, and I can't believe Cameron would be so stupid. That really would trigger an almighty conflict within the Conservative Party, because it would show that the promise of a free vote was a sham.
Think its clear at this point that Cameron cares more about EU membership than integrity of Tory party.
Though of course after waging all out war on Leave supporters, he'll then demand reconciliation and unity afterwards.
David Cameron is up for this because it will define his legacy not because of his liking of the EU. As for posters on here jumping on every story as if it was fact based when most of the print media seem to have lost all sense of balance is unwise. I cannot think for one minute that DC would demote Gove, but he may promote him to higher office but not in Justice
With respect, the claim its just the media making up lies about their man is reminiscent of Republicans refusing to acknowledge facts. Is Laura Kuensburg at the BBC part of the conspiracy with her reporting??
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
Excellent podcast. Nice to hear such clarity of thought from Carswell. I still think UKIP as a party will probably fall apart at least for a while after the referendum but it is good to hear such a positive view of the future from Carswell.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
War hero felt pressured by No.10 into signing pro Europe letter
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'
Gove has conducted himself with the utmost integrity and done everything possible to act with dignity, and keep it non-personal.
If Cameron pushes him too far, and it turns nasty; I think he will walk.
I can't see any upside to firing Gove, or to pushing him into a position where he has no choice but to resign. I can see an enormous downside, and I can't believe Cameron would be so stupid. That really would trigger an almighty conflict within the Conservative Party, because it would show that the promise of a free vote was a sham.
Think its clear at this point that Cameron cares more about EU membership than integrity of Tory party.
Though of course after waging all out war on Leave supporters, he'll then demand reconciliation and unity afterwards.
David Cameron is up for this because it will define his legacy not because of his liking of the EU. As for posters on here jumping on every story as if it was fact based when most of the print media seem to have lost all sense of balance is unwise. I cannot think for one minute that DC would demote Gove, but he may promote him to higher office but not in Justice
With respect, the claim its just the media making up lies about their man is reminiscent of Republicans refusing to acknowledge facts. Is Laura Kuensburg at the BBC part of the conspiracy with her reporting??
I did not say the media were making up lies. I said the media have lost a sense of balance but I have no problem with Laura who is an excellent journalist.
Too many Leave supporters will not forgive Cameron for beating them.
That's the nub of it, and really, they should get over themselves. Cameron has delivered on his commitment to hold a referendum. No-one can seriously cry foul that he is on the other side of the argument. The leave campaign has had years or even decades to form a coherent narrative and movement to convince the people to vote to leave. If it doesn't happen now the recriminations should be in their own camp.
The problem hasn't been so much his backing of Remain but gutter tactics against his own party in carrying out that support.
His tacticds.
There would have been a hardcore who would always done it, but its much bigger number because of Cameron's poor negotiation.
That's why I said his tactics have not helped. But the level of hurt expressed at facing political tactics from Cameron, the level of vitriol, is from my perspective disproportionate, and I worry a lot of it is setting up excuses for why Leave will lose, when I personally have long felt that even with dastardly tactics helping it, Remain is very vulnerable to a good Leave campaign. That many of the criticisms of Cameron are so extreme and blunt, that those MPs who support him are dismissed as careerists (not that some are not, but maybe a lot of them agree with him), just comes across as lazy comforting that they didn't have a chance really, and it's not their fault if they fail.
Even Douglas Carswell thinks Cameron did try to get something substantive from the EU negotiations, he says so in the podcast as I mentioned earlier(he just thinks he failed, and likely that failure was inevitable) - but there are clearly plenty in the Tory party who would bite his head off for suggesting Cameron had any other thought than betraying this country.
I'll be very disappointed if we Remain in June (though I confess with a small part of guilty relief that I got to vote out and not face any risk from that choice - I'm not proud of that, and admit it in part to shore up my resolve not to give in to Project Fear and vote Remain) and I do think Cameron is trying to sell a crap deal and he's doing it now because if we wait for more crises to happen, he'd definitely lose even with a better deal. But there's enough Leave support in media and establishment, and the case strong enough, that it should still be able to win. It'll be on us, the public, who will have been informed of any stitch up or unfairness, if we still vote Remain.
Gove has conducted himself with the utmost integrity and done everything possible to act with dignity, and keep it non-personal.
If Cameron pushes him too far, and it turns nasty; I think he will walk.
I can't see any upside to firing Gove, or to pushing him into a position where he has no choice but to resign. I can see an enormous downside, and I can't believe Cameron would be so stupid. That really would trigger an almighty conflict within the Conservative Party, because it would show that the promise of a free vote was a sham.
My first reaction to the Telegraph front page was to think it was just stirring. On reflection I wonder if it is meant to be a warning shot that, if Remain wins easily there will be negative consequences for some - not all, but you don't know which - Leavers.
There's a remark of Lincoln's - This government cannot much longer play a game in which it stakes all, and its enemies stake nothing - which might sum up what Cameron is thinking. He, after all, is certainly out on his arse if he loses. He may not find himself warming to the idea that Gove's job is safe either way.
But I think Gove will not be fired in the event. Better to choose someone less competent and articulate and less of a threat on the backbenches.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
She asks him if he thinks the agreement is legally binding. He says "yes". She says "That's not quite the answer". I.e not quite the answer she wanted. After further pressing she states "You are saying clearly it [the agreement] can be chucked out." He hedged his statement. What's she playing at?
If she is the source of these stories, she is not to be trusted.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
Carswell, unlike some Tories, seems to think Cameron went to the EU and argued for reform in good faith, I see (although he failed, obviously).
Given how often he repeats the point, perhaps 'Take back control' should be the Leave slogan?
He really likes pushing the point about the vast majority of UKIP councillors backing VoteLeave too, doesn't he? I've seen him write it several times, and he brings it up here - was he expecting something different, or is it a swipe at Grassroots Out or something?
Its a swipe at Grassroots out but primarily it is a message to the Electoral Commission who will have to decide which group to give official status to. It is remarkable that practically every UKIP councilor is backing Vote Leave rather than the officially UKIP backed G.O.
Cameron is just behaving with the ruthlessness needed of all effective leaders.
Yes.
It seems all of the bile and invective being spewed on here, all the talk of betrayal and poor negotiation, is just venting frustration that Cameron is really, really good at being PM, and is likely to win.
Again.
The Leavers would kill for someone as "bad at negotiating" and "untrustworthy" as Cameron to lead their campaign.
Too many Leave supporters will not forgive Cameron for beating them.
That's the nub of it, and really, they should get over themselves. Cameron has delivered on his commitment to hold a referendum. No-one can seriously cry foul that he is on the other side of the argument. The leave campaign has had years or even decades to form a coherent narrative and movement to convince the people to vote to leave. If it doesn't happen now the recriminations should be in their own camp.
The problem hasn't been so much his backing of Remain but gutter tactics against his own party in carrying out that support.
His tacticds.
There would have been a hardcore who would always done it, but its much bigger number because of Cameron's poor negotiation.
That's why I said his tactics have not helped. But the level of hurt expressed at facing political tactics from Cameron, the level of vitriol, is from my perspective disproportionate, and I worry a lot of it is setting up excuses for why Leave will lose, when I personally have long felt that even with dastardly tactics helping it, Remain is very vulnerable to a good Leave campaign. That many of the criticisms of Cameron are so extreme and blunt, that those MPs who support him are dismissed as careerists (not that some are not, but maybe a lot of them agree with him), just comes across as lazy comforting that they didn't have a chance really, and it's not their fault if they fail.
Even Douglas Carswell thinks Cameron did try to get something substantive from the EU negotiations, he says so in the podcast as I mentioned earlier(he just thinks he failed, and likely that failure was inevitable) - but there are clearly plenty in the Tory party who would bite his head off for suggesting Cameron had any other thought than betraying this country.
I'll be very disappointed if we Remain in June (though I confess with a small part of guilty relief that I got to vote out and not face any risk from that choice - I'm not proud of that, and admit it in part to shore up my resolve not to give in to Project Fear and vote Remain) and I do think Cameron is trying to sell a crap deal and he's doing it now because if we wait for more crises to happen, he'd definitely lose even with a better deal. But there's enough Leave support in media and establishment, and the case strong enough, that it should still be able to win. It'll be on us, the public, who will have been informed of any stitch up or unfairness, if we still vote Remain.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
She asks him if he thinks the agreement is legally binding. He says "yes". She says "That's not quite the answer". I.e not quite the answer she wanted. After further pressing she states "You are saying clearly it [the agreement] can be chucked out." He hedged his statement. What's she playing at?
Agreed. She looked out of her depth in that interview. Unfortunately she's studied at the Marr/Robinson school of political journalism.
Anyone have any idea who is the favourite for the Fifa Presidency? Seems to me their image problem will not be resolved by throwing out a few bad apples as it is the orchard which has the problem, to borrow an expression, but I wonder which is the least obviously bad candidate. On the basis of best name, Tokyo Sexwale has to be favourite.
It takes something to beat Jerome Champagne in the unfortunate-name-for-the-next-head-of-a-comically-compromised-organisation stakes but Tokyo has it.
Carswell, unlike some Tories, seems to think Cameron went to the EU and argued for reform in good faith, I see (although he failed, obviously).
Given how often he repeats the point, perhaps 'Take back control' should be the Leave slogan?
He really likes pushing the point about the vast majority of UKIP councillors backing VoteLeave too, doesn't he? I've seen him write it several times, and he brings it up here - was he expecting something different, or is it a swipe at Grassroots Out or something?
Its a swipe at Grassroots out but primarily it is a message to the Electoral Commission who will have to decide which group to give official status to. It is remarkable that practically every UKIP councilor is backing Vote Leave rather than the officially UKIP backed G.O.
War hero felt pressured by No.10 into signing pro Europe letter
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
As stated below he cares more about the EU than his own party.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
Are you serious
Yes
Worse than Blair and Brown ??
If it turns out everything he has told us was a lie, and he knew it, then yes. Some very astute people on here have suggested we could be forced into the Euro by default if the City protections are not as they seem, or actually worse than we have now as Charles suggests, then definitely yes.
War hero felt pressured by No.10 into signing pro Europe letter
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
The commentariate are desperate for something to write about. In other news the assembled Leaver Louts are salivating over Cameron being forced out if Leave win. The real purpose for Leave is clear. If you look at it another way - then given that Leavers are saying that staying in is worse than spending eternity in the 8th Circle of Hell then why would any of the Cabinet dissenters feel able to carry on in government if Remain wins? I hope they do - assuming Remain wins. I hope Gove continues and prospers but for all the leading lights they should realise that they are putting themselves in the limelight and their judgements and competence will be on display.
War hero felt pressured by No.10 into signing pro Europe letter
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
That does seem a bit much given the pressure he was under over the police investigation and his wife dying. I wonder if there was some linkage, express or implied, between the help - in terms of speaking up for him - by people close to the Tories and his signing.
War hero felt pressured by No.10 into signing pro Europe letter
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
As stated below he cares more about the EU than his own party.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
Are you serious
Yes
Worse than Blair and Brown ??
If it turns out everything he has told us was a lie, and he knew it, then yes. Some very astute people on here have suggested we could be forced into the Euro by default if the City protections are not as they seem, or actually worse than we have now as Charles suggests, then definitely yes.
You seem very bitter and no doubt are concerned that remain will win. Rather than attacking a highly successful Prime Minister maybe you should make a positive case to me to leave. I have said on several occasions that my heart wants to leave but my head says remain. Persuade me with your alternative vision
Too many Leave supporters will not forgive Cameron for beating them.
That's the nub of it, and really, they should get over themselves. Cameron has delivered on his commitment to hold a referendum. No-one can seriously cry foul that he is on the other side of the argument. The leave campaign has had years or even decades to form a coherent narrative and movement to convince the people to vote to leave. If it doesn't happen now the recriminations should be in their own camp.
You think a Remain win is in the bag? I see a 50/50 situation.
I think the biggest question is the scale of the result. My fear is a near 50/50 result because what should have been a cathartic moment will become the source of endless wasted political infighting for decades more. The best result for our politics would be an emphatic win for Remain.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
As stated below he cares more about the EU than his own party.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
Are you serious
Yes
Worse than Blair and Brown ??
If it turns out everything he has told us was a lie, and he knew it, then yes. Some very astute people on here have suggested we could be forced into the Euro by default if the City protections are not as they seem, or actually worse than we have now as Charles suggests, then definitely yes.
Its pretty desperate to suggest we can or would be forced into the Euro.
I see no issue with a government circulating a draft letter and asking people if they are willing to put their name to it, but I would very much hope not even subtle pressure was applied - there's no need for that sort of thing, if you get 5 generals, or however many, signing a letter, it still sounds good, people aren't going to go 'But they didn't get Lord Bramall!' , they still hear 'senior generals sign letter'. The only counter is if others sign an opposing letter.
War hero felt pressured by No.10 into signing pro Europe letter
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'
He's feisty enough to blab to the papers about it now.
The unravelling of this idiotic letter is all very embarrassing for Remain, but the fact is it won't make the front page headline, which the initial letter did.
Do you suspect the photo editor had to get approval from Owen about the choice of picture?
Really surprised that Owen has come out for LEAVE. He has always been the epitome of stay in and reform.
Owen was once a very clever man. He later set up a party that was of refuseniks to the LibDems, prefering the "its my party..." approach. With an ego and arrogance that is hard to contain he now comes out for Leave. What is it about Leave that attracts leaders of personality cult parties?
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
This really is getting ridiculous. Cameron is putting winning the EU vote ahead of the good governance of the country. How can you have a situation where no one in the Justice department is allowed access to a significant proportion of their documents for 4 months. Are we simply going to say no Justice decisions can be made for a third of the year?
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Gove has conducted himself with the utmost integrity and done everything possible to act with dignity, and keep it non-personal.
If Cameron pushes him too far, and it turns nasty; I think he will walk.
I can't see any upside to firing Gove, or to pushing him into a position where he has no choice but to resign. I can see an enormous downside, and I can't believe Cameron would be so stupid. That really would trigger an almighty conflict within the Conservative Party, because it would show that the promise of a free vote was a sham.
My first reaction to the Telegraph front page was to think it was just stirring. On reflection I wonder if it is meant to be a warning shot that, if Remain wins easily there will be negative consequences for some - not all, but you don't know which - Leavers.
There's a remark of Lincoln's - This government cannot much longer play a game in which it stakes all, and its enemies stake nothing - which might sum up what Cameron is thinking. He, after all, is certainly out on his arse if he loses. He may not find himself warming to the idea that Gove's job is safe either way.
But I think Gove will not be fired in the event. Better to choose someone less competent and articulate and less of a threat on the backbenches.
I did an 'A' level in politics a long time ago and what I always find peculiar is how few of the fundamental rules change. 'Collective responsibiity' is as central now as it was then. There was never a chance of Cameron being able to allow Cabinet ministers to do their own thing. Gove will be gone before the week end as I said yesterday
War hero felt pressured by No.10 into signing pro Europe letter
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'
He's feisty enough to blab to the papers about it now.
The unravelling of this idiotic letter is all very embarrassing for Remain, but the fact is it won't make the front page headline, which the initial letter did.
I have a feeling if you shoved a letter there from the leave camp,he'll proberly signed that.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
This really is getting ridiculous. Cameron is putting winning the EU vote ahead of the good governance of the country. How can you have a situation where no one in the Justice department is allowed access to a significant proportion of their documents for 4 months. Are we simply going to say no Justice decisions can be made for a third of the year?
Cameron is a fecking lunatic.
And someone (hello Boris?) needs to grow a pair and say so.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
As stated below he cares more about the EU than his own party.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
Are you serious
Yes
Worse than Blair and Brown ??
If it turns out everything he has told us was a lie, and he knew it, then yes. Some very astute people on here have suggested we could be forced into the Euro by default if the City protections are not as they seem, or actually worse than we have now as Charles suggests, then definitely yes.
Its pretty desperate to suggest we can or would be forced into the Euro.
It's been suggested on here by some very bright people.
Do you suspect the photo editor had to get approval from Owen about the choice of picture?
Really surprised that Owen has come out for LEAVE. He has always been the epitome of stay in and reform.
Owen was once a very clever man. He later set up a party that was of refuseniks to the LibDems, prefering the "its my party..." approach. With an ego and arrogance that is hard to contain he now comes out for Leave. What is it about Leave that attracts leaders of personality cult parties?
The fact they're not careerist sycophants obsessed with clambering up the greasy pole?
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
It is a good point. How will the referendum campaign effect the local elections in England. Would expect it to provide a boost to the conservatives
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
I fear I have my doubts as to your motives for those kind wishes... you are not wrong re the slog!
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
As stated below he cares more about the EU than his own party.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
Are you serious
Yes
Worse than Blair and Brown ??
If it turns out everything he has told us was a lie, and he knew it, then yes. Some very astute people on here have suggested we could be forced into the Euro by default if the City protections are not as they seem, or actually worse than we have now as Charles suggests, then definitely yes.
You seem very bitter and no doubt are concerned that remain will win. Rather than attacking a highly successful Prime Minister maybe you should make a positive case to me to leave. I have said on several occasions that my heart wants to leave but my head says remain. Persuade me with your alternative vision
He cannot make a positive case for leave. All he has is bile. A positive case for leave is to joint EFTA / EEA and remain in the single market. And that is to be pretty much the same as now including free movement of labour. Leave's only stinking tactic is to wave a shroud at the crisis in Syria which has nothing to do with our membership of the EU, plus we are not even in Schengen.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
As stated below he cares more about the EU than his own party.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
Are you serious
Yes
Worse than Blair and Brown ??
If it turns out everything he has told us was a lie, and he knew it, then yes. Some very astute people on here have suggested we could be forced into the Euro by default if the City protections are not as they seem, or actually worse than we have now as Charles suggests, then definitely yes.
Its pretty desperate to suggest we can or would be forced into the Euro.
It's been suggested on here by some very bright people.
I don't think that we can be forced into the Euro, and even Nick P with his prediction that we would be in in 20 years stipulated that it would need a referendum.
I could only see us wanting to join if there was a massive Sterling inflation, with the Euro demonstrating DM like stability, and that would be like Greece, a particularly unsuitable time to join.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
As stated below he cares more about the EU than his own party.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
Are you serious
Yes
Worse than Blair and Brown ??
If it turns out everything he has told us was a lie, and he knew it, then yes. Some very astute people on here have suggested we could be forced into the Euro by default if the City protections are not as they seem, or actually worse than we have now as Charles suggests, then definitely yes.
Its pretty desperate to suggest we can or would be forced into the Euro.
It's been suggested on here by some very bright people.
Carswell, unlike some Tories, seems to think Cameron went to the EU and argued for reform in good faith, I see (although he failed, obviously).
Given how often he repeats the point, perhaps 'Take back control' should be the Leave slogan?
He really likes pushing the point about the vast majority of UKIP councillors backing VoteLeave too, doesn't he? I've seen him write it several times, and he brings it up here - was he expecting something different, or is it a swipe at Grassroots Out or something?
Its a swipe at Grassroots out but primarily it is a message to the Electoral Commission who will have to decide which group to give official status to. It is remarkable that practically every UKIP councilor is backing Vote Leave rather than the officially UKIP backed G.O.
Yep. This is why I said that I think UKIP will disintegrate after the referendum.
If LEAVE wins then UKIP will either have to dramatically change or lose a lot of support from those like me who were only interested in it as a means to an end. I would suggest that the Euro driven UKIP membership is perhaps a third of the total at least. For many of us to stay the Carswell tendency would have to win out and I simply don't see that happening.
If REMAIN wins then the blood letting will be catastrophic for the party and I can't see Farage surviving the backlash.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
As stated below he cares more about the EU than his own party.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
Are you serious
Yes
Worse than Blair and Brown ??
If it turns out everything he has told us was a lie, and he knew it, then yes. Some very astute people on here have suggested we could be forced into the Euro by default if the City protections are not as they seem, or actually worse than we have now as Charles suggests, then definitely yes.
Its pretty desperate to suggest we can or would be forced into the Euro.
It's been suggested on here by some very bright people.
I don't think that we can be forced into the Euro, and even Nick P with his prediction that we would be in in 20 years stipulated that it would need a referendum.
I could only see us wanting to join if there was a massive Sterling inflation, with the Euro demonstrating DM like stability, and that would be like Greece, a particularly unsuitable time to join.
It would take a complete collapse in UK economic confidence and disastrous mismanagement, fortunately it seems npxmo isn't expecting his lot back in power any time soon if he thinks it'll be 20 yrs for us to reach that calamitous position.....
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
Just the one I think
Ah yes! I forgot that Crystal Palace have revived.
Arsenal seem to want "to concentrate on the League" too.
Amazing how the Cameroons claim on the one hand that it was the campaign showing Miliband in Salmonds pocket that persuaded many potential Kippers back to the fold because they might let in a socialist, whilst simultaneously claiming the same people voted positively for Cameron because they didn't care that he fucked up immigration...
Some people bet to 125% in their arguments... And still don't win
Carswell, unlike some Tories, seems to think Cameron went to the EU and argued for reform in good faith, I see (although he failed, obviously).
Given how often he repeats the point, perhaps 'Take back control' should be the Leave slogan?
He really likes pushing the point about the vast majority of UKIP councillors backing VoteLeave too, doesn't he? I've seen him write it several times, and he brings it up here - was he expecting something different, or is it a swipe at Grassroots Out or something?
Its a swipe at Grassroots out but primarily it is a message to the Electoral Commission who will have to decide which group to give official status to. It is remarkable that practically every UKIP councilor is backing Vote Leave rather than the officially UKIP backed G.O.
Yep. This is why I said that I think UKIP will disintegrate after the referendum.
If LEAVE wins then UKIP will either have to dramatically change or lose a lot of support from those like me who were only interested in it as a means to an end. I would suggest that the Euro driven UKIP membership is perhaps a third of the total at least. For many of us to stay the Carswell tendency would have to win out and I simply don't see that happening.
If REMAIN wins then the blood letting will be catastrophic for the party and I can't see Farage surviving the backlash.
Evans' letter of acceptance (of her sacking) is just pathetic.
I also note the absurd Peter Oborne throwing his usual pile of shite at Teresa May.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
I honesty cannot believe these reports about Cameron going after Gove.
It makes zero sense to attack someone who has been so polite in their dissention. It would put Gove in a "nothing to lose" situation and makes a mockery of allowing cabinet members to campaign for out.
It also smacks of weakness.
Far from being the great Statesman we all thought he was, Cameron is showing himself to be a childish bully who lashes out if he cannot get his own way.
Assuming the story is true.
Not just this story, but the way he has behaved in the Commons this week.
This really is getting ridiculous. Cameron is putting winning the EU vote ahead of the good governance of the country. How can you have a situation where no one in the Justice department is allowed access to a significant proportion of their documents for 4 months. Are we simply going to say no Justice decisions can be made for a third of the year?
Cameron is a fecking lunatic.
Cameron is looking after Britain's interests now. These Outers cannot be trusted.
Gove has conducted himself with the utmost integrity and done everything possible to act with dignity, and keep it non-personal.
If Cameron pushes him too far, and it turns nasty; I think he will walk.
I can't see any upside to firing Gove, or to pushing him into a position where he has no choice but to resign. I can see an enormous downside, and I can't believe Cameron would be so stupid. That really would trigger an almighty conflict within the Conservative Party, because it would show that the promise of a free vote was a sham.
My first reaction to the Telegraph front page was to think it was just stirring. On reflection I wonder if it is meant to be a warning shot that, if Remain wins easily there will be negative consequences for some - not all, but you don't know which - Leavers.
There's a remark of Lincoln's - This government cannot much longer play a game in which it stakes all, and its enemies stake nothing - which might sum up what Cameron is thinking. He, after all, is certainly out on his arse if he loses. He may not find himself warming to the idea that Gove's job is safe either way.
But I think Gove will not be fired in the event. Better to choose someone less competent and articulate and less of a threat on the backbenches.
I did an 'A' level in politics a long time ago and what I always find peculiar is how few of the fundamental rules change. 'Collective responsibiity' is as central now as it was then. There was never a chance of Cameron being able to allow Cabinet ministers to do their own thing. Gove will be gone before the week end as I said yesterday
I think Cameron would be in deep deep trouble if he sacked any of the Leave ministers at this point.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
Just the one I think
Ah yes! I forgot that Crystal Palace have revived.
Arsenal seem to want "to concentrate on the League" too.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
DTWNBPOTUS / HRCWNBPOTUS
Oh the colony, I was talking the big stuff, tory surge in scatty land and sadiq saving the poorly suited one.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Teasing aside, the referendum is rather over-egging the political year, what with locals, Welsh, London and Scottish elections as well as the prospect of Trump vs Clinton.
Scotland in particular looks interesting, and the others do give us a taste of how Corbynism goes down with the Great British public.
Perceptions are changing if even David Owen is in favour of leave. One of the reasons he broke off from Labour to form the SDP was because Labour was too euroskeptic.
Oh and another Texas poll, with changes since January:
Carswell, unlike some Tories, seems to think Cameron went to the EU and argued for reform in good faith, I see (although he failed, obviously).
Given how often he repeats the point, perhaps 'Take back control' should be the Leave slogan?
He really likes pushing the point about the vast majority of UKIP councillors backing VoteLeave too, doesn't he? I've seen him write it several times, and he brings it up here - was he expecting something different, or is it a swipe at Grassroots Out or something?
Its a swipe at Grassroots out but primarily it is a message to the Electoral Commission who will have to decide which group to give official status to. It is remarkable that practically every UKIP councilor is backing Vote Leave rather than the officially UKIP backed G.O.
Yep. This is why I said that I think UKIP will disintegrate after the referendum.
If LEAVE wins then UKIP will either have to dramatically change or lose a lot of support from those like me who were only interested in it as a means to an end. I would suggest that the Euro driven UKIP membership is perhaps a third of the total at least. For many of us to stay the Carswell tendency would have to win out and I simply don't see that happening.
If REMAIN wins then the blood letting will be catastrophic for the party and I can't see Farage surviving the backlash.
If the referendum is bad for party unity for the Tories as many fear/hope, and Labour continue to be led by Corbyn, we might actually see a major realignment in British politics, with people defecting/setting up new parties to deal with it all.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
Just the one I think
Ah yes! I forgot that Crystal Palace have revived.
Arsenal seem to want "to concentrate on the League" too.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
Just the one I think
Like arsenal.
Haha oh the shame
Can we sub on flamini tomorrow too to help clear the diary!?
Owen was once a very clever man. He later set up a party that was of refuseniks to the LibDems, prefering the "its my party..." approach. With an ego and arrogance that is hard to contain he now comes out for Leave. What is it about Leave that attracts leaders of personality cult parties?
Recently finished Roy Jenkins' memoirs - not entirely appealing, but interesting. But it's striking that the only person in the book of 500 pages or so that he cannot bring himself to be polite about is David Owen, for reasons similar to what you imply.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
Just the one I think
Ah yes! I forgot that Crystal Palace have revived.
Arsenal seem to want "to concentrate on the League" too.
This referendum is going to be one boring slog... how long before focus switches to the may election at least for a while. Have we a new acronym to replace eicipm?
Or perhaps to the Europa Cup? Thats a contest that seems perpetual too. I wish Spurs a long and successful cup campaign or two!
Just the one I think
Like arsenal.
Haha oh the shame
Can we sub on flamini tomorrow too to help clear the diary!?
Strange substitution I thought at the time. Never mind it was a more than fair result
As a Spurs fan and I suppose stats fan too, I recommend
cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com
The guy who writes it is an American spurs fan called Michael Caley. On Twitter he produces goal chance maps for every game that show what the score should have been according to opta expected goals, very interesting
In other News... ''Corrupt police and an influential politician fuelled a culture of impunity that allowed three brothers to “own” the town of Rotherham and abuse children until their crimes were exposed by The Times. One officer had sex with under-age girls, passed drugs to the sex-grooming gang and tipped them off when colleagues were searching for missing children, a court was told. Another helped to broker a deal in which one brother returned an abused girl to police after receiving an assurance that he “wouldn’t get done”. The jury was told that Jahangir Akhtar, the former deputy leader of Rotherham council, also took part in the handover at a petrol station. Mr Akhtar, the former deputy chairman of South Yorkshire police and crime panel, was a relative of Arshid, Basharat and Bannaras Hussain...'' (The Times)
Comments
If true.
Cameron prolly won't sack him, but its a warning shot across his bow to take a lower profile in campaign.
In this instance, any recovery in Scotland by Labour is going to reduce that 13% by a lot.
The more stories that leak out like this the more the public will wonder what he has to hide, he could end up being the most hated PM ever.
John McDonnell has caused anger in Labour for calling on the compliance unit that weeds out entryists to be abolished. See tomorrow's Times.
I mean he basically accused Johnson of only having his position for careerist reasons on floor of Commons, but gets offended by Leave supporters voicing their legal opinion??
The Remain case is a perfectly respectable one. Cameron has delivered a referendum and a deal, whatever one might think of it. The government's position is to recommend Remain. Of course, Cameron is going to do whatever it takes to win it.
Leave have not so far go their act together and it's not as if they haven't had plenty of time to prepare. That is not Cameron's fault.
I have never been a particular fan of Cameron or his EU deal. But I think there is rather too much looking at the motes in other's eyes rather than in the beams in one's own by the Leave campaign.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/historical-polls/voting-intention-1992-1997
15:05 onwards
http://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/fdd39696-e8a5-4b1b-8da2-615de2f32769
Proud! UKIP West Mids region unanimously voted in favour of my motion in support of equality and SSM
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12172525/War-hero-felt-pressured-by-No.10-into-signing-pro-Europe-letter.html
Glory be
Even Douglas Carswell thinks Cameron did try to get something substantive from the EU negotiations, he says so in the podcast as I mentioned earlier(he just thinks he failed, and likely that failure was inevitable) - but there are clearly plenty in the Tory party who would bite his head off for suggesting Cameron had any other thought than betraying this country.
I'll be very disappointed if we Remain in June (though I confess with a small part of guilty relief that I got to vote out and not face any risk from that choice - I'm not proud of that, and admit it in part to shore up my resolve not to give in to Project Fear and vote Remain) and I do think Cameron is trying to sell a crap deal and he's doing it now because if we wait for more crises to happen, he'd definitely lose even with a better deal. But there's enough Leave support in media and establishment, and the case strong enough, that it should still be able to win. It'll be on us, the public, who will have been informed of any stitch up or unfairness, if we still vote Remain.
There's a remark of Lincoln's - This government cannot much longer play a game in which it stakes all, and its enemies stake nothing - which might sum up what Cameron is thinking. He, after all, is certainly out on his arse if he loses. He may not find himself warming to the idea that Gove's job is safe either way.
But I think Gove will not be fired in the event. Better to choose someone less competent and articulate and less of a threat on the backbenches.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35649136
She asks him if he thinks the agreement is legally binding. He says "yes". She says "That's not quite the answer". I.e not quite the answer she wanted. After further pressing she states "You are saying clearly it [the agreement] can be chucked out." He hedged his statement. What's she playing at?
If she is the source of these stories, she is not to be trusted.
But the way he has behaved this week has been deplorable.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12172525/War-hero-felt-pressured-by-No.10-into-signing-pro-Europe-letter.html
It seems all of the bile and invective being spewed on here, all the talk of betrayal and poor negotiation, is just venting frustration that Cameron is really, really good at being PM, and is likely to win.
Again.
The Leavers would kill for someone as "bad at negotiating" and "untrustworthy" as Cameron to lead their campaign.
Instead they got the Marx brothers
http://order-order.com/2016/02/24/suzanne-evans-out-as-ukip-deputy-chair/
In other news the assembled Leaver Louts are salivating over Cameron being forced out if Leave win. The real purpose for Leave is clear.
If you look at it another way - then given that Leavers are saying that staying in is worse than spending eternity in the 8th Circle of Hell then why would any of the Cabinet dissenters feel able to carry on in government if Remain wins?
I hope they do - assuming Remain wins. I hope Gove continues and prospers but for all the leading lights they should realise that they are putting themselves in the limelight and their judgements and competence will be on display.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/why-jeremy-corbyn-is-the-out-campaigns-secret-weapon/
The unravelling of this idiotic letter is all very embarrassing for Remain, but the fact is it won't make the front page headline, which the initial letter did.
Cameron is a fecking lunatic.
;-)
A positive case for leave is to joint EFTA / EEA and remain in the single market. And that is to be pretty much the same as now including free movement of labour.
Leave's only stinking tactic is to wave a shroud at the crisis in Syria which has nothing to do with our membership of the EU, plus we are not even in Schengen.
I could only see us wanting to join if there was a massive Sterling inflation, with the Euro demonstrating DM like stability, and that would be like Greece, a particularly unsuitable time to join.
I am really having fun watching the Tories use all the skills they learnt from fox-hunting on each other !
If LEAVE wins then UKIP will either have to dramatically change or lose a lot of support from those like me who were only interested in it as a means to an end. I would suggest that the Euro driven UKIP membership is perhaps a third of the total at least. For many of us to stay the Carswell tendency would have to win out and I simply don't see that happening.
If REMAIN wins then the blood letting will be catastrophic for the party and I can't see Farage surviving the backlash.
@bbclaurak: No 10 says Gove subject to same rules as every Minister arguing for Brexit - nothing to do with his comments
@bbclaurak: Sources say Gove subject to Heywood rules for ministers who want to campaign for Out, as set out previously, No 10 denies any change
Stop swearing at me,me a tory,my family all ex-labour voters.
Arsenal seem to want "to concentrate on the League" too.
Some people bet to 125% in their arguments... And still don't win
Good night all.
I also note the absurd Peter Oborne throwing his usual pile of shite at Teresa May.
Dave, we are with you !
Scotland in particular looks interesting, and the others do give us a taste of how Corbynism goes down with the Great British public.
One of the reasons he broke off from Labour to form the SDP was because Labour was too euroskeptic.
Oh and another Texas poll, with changes since January:
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/02/24/cruz-increases-lead-in-tx-against-trump-in-ktvt-cbs-11-dixie-strategies-poll/
Cruz 33 +3
Trump 25 0
Rubio 15 +3
Kasich 8 +5
Carson 6 +1
Goodnight.
As a Spurs fan and I suppose stats fan too, I recommend
cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com
The guy who writes it is an American spurs fan called Michael Caley. On Twitter he produces goal chance maps for every game that show what the score should have been according to opta expected goals, very interesting
REMAIN LEAVE
Nabavi is IN, Plato is OUT.
We need a poll.
''Corrupt police and an influential politician fuelled a culture of impunity that allowed three brothers to “own” the town of Rotherham and abuse children until their crimes were exposed by The Times.
One officer had sex with under-age girls, passed drugs to the sex-grooming gang and tipped them off when colleagues were searching for missing children, a court was told. Another helped to broker a deal in which one brother returned an abused girl to police after receiving an assurance that he “wouldn’t get done”.
The jury was told that Jahangir Akhtar, the former deputy leader of Rotherham council, also took part in the handover at a petrol station. Mr Akhtar, the former deputy chairman of South Yorkshire police and crime panel, was a relative of Arshid, Basharat and Bannaras Hussain...''
(The Times)