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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile away from UKIP runners declare themselves in 3 p

SystemSystem Posts: 11,700
edited May 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile away from UKIP runners declare themselves in 3 political races and an 8/1 tip from Damian McBride

Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham announce Labour leadership bids http://t.co/ALs3cTkRak pic.twitter.com/n9AaIwBqJC

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited May 2015
    Is this the same Damian McBride that recently tipped Vince Cable as next Deputy PM?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @joeyjonessky: Not ukip expert like some (@DMcCaffreySKY!) but sense @oflynnmep will be stripped of econ spokesman role. Qn then how he chooses to react.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @twlldun: Glad to see the UKIP NEC (N. Farage, Nigel F'rage, NE Farage, Nigel F.A.Rage and NEF Arage) have refused Nigel Farage's resignation.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Ukip donor ArronBanks in FT: "If O'Flynn had half the charisma of Nigel fair enough but listening to Patrick is like watching paint dry."
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited May 2015
    The McBride article is wishful thinking anyway. If the economy crash happens as he forecasts, it will be cast iron cover to walk away from all the other promises without getting lynched by the voters, who despite what Labour politicians would have you believe, actually understand that circumstances change.

    EuRef is his Achilles heel because what McBride says is absolutely true, he wont get anything, he knows he wont get anything, his back benchers know he wont get anything, and he will get into some silly dance about trying to dress up nothing as a big deal.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    LOL, Paddy Power offer dreadful odds and Damian McBride recommends them!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    Scott_P said:

    @Kevin_Maguire: Strong rumours in Clacton that @DouglasCarswell is to quit Ukip and go Independent. I'm sure he'll set the record straight

    You kip if you want to...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    8-1 Dave gone in 2016 doesn't look attractive to me in the slightest.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Indigo said:

    The McBride article is wishful thinking anyway. If the economy crash happens as he forecasts, it will be cast iron cover to walk away from all the other promises without getting lynched by the voters, who despite what Labour politicians would have you believe, actually understand that circumstances change.

    A kazoo has more than one note.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412
    Why does McBride think Dave will be gone within a year?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988

    LOL, Paddy Power offer dreadful odds and Damian McBride recommends them!

    Like Betfair and TSE!
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412

    Scott_P said:

    @Kevin_Maguire: Strong rumours in Clacton that @DouglasCarswell is to quit Ukip and go Independent. I'm sure he'll set the record straight

    You kip if you want to...
    ...The Lady's NOT for kipping?

    :)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @rowenamason: Mark Reckless sitting on the fence: declines to comment on whether he backs Nigel Farage to remain as Ukip leader

    @PickardJE: Arron Banks: "Carswell got 25,000 votes but Nigel got 4m. Nigel got 99.6% of the votes to Carswell’s 0.4%." http://t.co/Wb2GpRYg0m
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Any way of laying that 8/1? The bank don't pay me 12.5% interest...
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    The other Ukip bod I said would go along w Kassam has offered to resign
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412
    O'Flynn reminds me of Harry Enfield's "Only Me" character :)
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Ukip donor ArronBanks in FT: "If O'Flynn had half the charisma of Nigel fair enough but listening to Patrick is like watching paint dry."

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Got to see Tessa and Khan enter the Mayoral race.

    Lord Coe to have a rethink over the IAAF job (Or lose to Bubka) and Goldsmith next please !
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jim Pickard ‏@PickardJE 1m1 minute ago

    Arron Banks: "Carswell got 25,000 votes but Nigel got 4m. Nigel got 99.6% of the votes to Carswell’s 0.4%." http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b76e454e-fa06-11e4-b432-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3ZgHEjB3y
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Mr Banks seems to be missing the entire point here.
    Scott_P said:

    @rowenamason: Mark Reckless sitting on the fence: declines to comment on whether he backs Nigel Farage to remain as Ukip leader

    @PickardJE: Arron Banks: "Carswell got 25,000 votes but Nigel got 4m. Nigel got 99.6% of the votes to Carswell’s 0.4%." http://t.co/Wb2GpRYg0m

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Game of UKIP Thrones.

    Will we see the dead soon?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Your sense of humour is a credit to you, Sir.
    MikeK said:

    Game of UKIP Thrones.

    Will we see the dead soon?

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    MikeK said:

    Game of UKIP Thrones.

    Will we see the dead soon?

    Is there a UKIP wedding in the offing ?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited May 2015
    FPT:
    Jonathan said:

    In my largely uninformed opinion it will be between Andy Burnham and one other, whoever breaks through from the rest.

    My preference would have been a senior bod (say AJ), cast in the Michael Howard role, to nurture a winner (from a set of hopefuls) and give air cover for a genuine policy rethink.

    Interesting response, thanks.

    On the second point, I think this is probably right, both for the reason you give, and because new leaders get a honeymoon boost. If Labour go for Yvette or Andy, by 2020 they will be led by someone who has been around for donkey's years. Less so for the other current main candidates, of course, but even so the novelty will have worn off, as it had for Cameron by 2010. Parties would in general be well advised to switch leaders later after an election defeat than they tend to do.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    McBride last summer

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2708868/Ed-Miliband-extraordinary-attack-Gordon-Brown-s-key-aide-warns-Labour-election-plan-totally-dysfunctional.html

    "Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’"
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    Plato said:

    Mr Banks seems to be missing the entire point here.

    Scott_P said:

    @rowenamason: Mark Reckless sitting on the fence: declines to comment on whether he backs Nigel Farage to remain as Ukip leader

    @PickardJE: Arron Banks: "Carswell got 25,000 votes but Nigel got 4m. Nigel got 99.6% of the votes to Carswell’s 0.4%." http://t.co/Wb2GpRYg0m

    Actually Nigel got 16,026.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    Nick Sutton retweeted
    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 23s23 seconds ago
    Prof John Curtice: if @theSNP vote holds up, Lab must be 12% ahead in Eng & Wales to win majority - and that's before boundary changes #wato

    If the figures quoted is correct - Labour have a big problem on their hands. Well done Ed, built on Gordon Brown's legacy, undermined the party's chances for a decade.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Sandpit said:

    Any way of laying that 8/1? The bank don't pay me 12.5% interest...

    I was thinking the same thing - also if someone bets with a pber, the cash is not tied up on either side for a year.

    I'll lay £20 at 8-1 for any reputable PBer that wants the bet.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    Was Carswell in danger of losing his seat to Ukip had he not defected? I only ask because right now his behavior smacks of someone who thought 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412
    TGOHF said:

    Jim Pickard ‏@PickardJE 1m1 minute ago

    Arron Banks: "Carswell got 25,000 votes but Nigel got 4m. Nigel got 99.6% of the votes to Carswell’s 0.4%." http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b76e454e-fa06-11e4-b432-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3ZgHEjB3y

    Er, no. Nigel got 16,000!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000948
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,003
    Lamb would be my preference for LD leader on pure political terms, but Farron's the right man to rebuild around.

    Unlike Labour, I don't think LDs need a major policy-position rethink - beyond a few Tories they're the only liberal voice in parliament. A couple of big, bold, liberal ideas - e.g. recreational dug decriminalisation - could help rally the cause though.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MikeK said:

    Game of UKIP Thrones.

    Will we see the dead soon?

    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/598823200076800000
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    UKIP are not a political party they are a soap opera.

    The Kippers.

    In last week's episode Nigel Kipper died, but it was all a dream and he's back! Nigel's immediately started fighting for control of the family firm with his brother Douglas Kipper, and their cousin Patrick O'Kipper has decided to soothe tensions, sorry I mean fuel the fire, by giving his two-penneth. Meanwhile Old Man Wheeler's woken up, and we wait to see if this weeks episode brings the return of long-lost Robert Kilroy-Kipper.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    If the UKIP revolters are removed from their roles, it would be interesting to see if they stay with the party or not. If they do, it would be a sign that the party has grown to the point where it can have different factions that can consolidate and come back to the forefront at a later point. If it they leave, it will show UKIP is still a Farage-only one-man show and people can't see it ever changing.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    tlg86 said:

    Was Carswell in danger of losing his seat to Ukip had he not defected? I only ask because right now his behavior smacks of someone who thought 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".

    No.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    I have to hand it to Cameron, not only did he manage to persuade SLAB to organise their own funeral, they ended up paying for it as well:

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/598778664533282816
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    tlg86 said:

    Was Carswell in danger of losing his seat to Ukip had he not defected? I only ask because right now his behavior smacks of someone who thought 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".

    I don't believe he was in danger, he strikes me as an honourable, if mistaken, man.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    McBride is writing about what he hopes will happen. Cameron will stay until at least 2018 IMHO.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    glw said:

    UKIP are not a political party they are a soap opera.

    The Kippers.

    In last week's episode Nigel Kipper died, but it was all a dream and he's back! Nigel's immediately started fighting for control of the family firm with his brother Douglas Kipper, and their cousin Patrick O'Kipper has decided to soothe tensions, sorry I mean fuel the fire, by giving his two-penneth. Meanwhile Old Man Wheeler's woken up, and we wait to see if this weeks episode brings the return of long-lost Robert Kilroy-Kipper.

    Where's Dirty Des-Kipper in all of this?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Ghedebrav said:

    Lamb would be my preference for LD leader on pure political terms, but Farron's the right man to rebuild around.

    Unlike Labour, I don't think LDs need a major policy-position rethink - beyond a few Tories they're the only liberal voice in parliament. A couple of big, bold, liberal ideas - e.g. recreational dug decriminalisation - could help rally the cause though.

    There is a huge gaping hole in British politics right now, I think Lamb might be better though - Farron is very SDLP comfort zone for left wingers.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    That Paddy Power blog by Damian McBride is an hilarious piece of comedic satire.

    Wait, it's meant to be serious? Oh. That's even funnier.
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,003

    FPT:

    Jonathan said:

    In my largely uninformed opinion it will be between Andy Burnham and one other, whoever breaks through from the rest.

    My preference would have been a senior bod (say AJ), cast in the Michael Howard role, to nurture a winner (from a set of hopefuls) and give air cover for a genuine policy rethink.

    Interesting response, thanks.

    On the second point, I think this is probably right, both for the reason you give, and because new leaders get a honeymoon boost. If Labour go for Yvette or Andy, by 2020 they will be led by someone who has been around for donkey's years. Less so for the other current main candidates, of course, but even so the novelty will have worn off, as it had for Cameron by 2010. Parties would in general be well advised to switch leaders later after an election defeat than they tend to do.
    I can't be the only person who thinks Cooper is electoral suicide (again)? She's not just associated politically with economic mismanagement - she liked it so much she married it!

    Burnham is the obvious choice - quite telegenic, regional accent, experienced... but on reflection, I'm leaning Hunt-ward. A new, (relatively) untainted and eloquent voice.

    So much for the frontman - the policies need to follow...

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    glw said:

    UKIP are not a political party they are a soap opera.

    The Kippers.

    In last week's episode Nigel Kipper died, but it was all a dream and he's back! Nigel's immediately started fighting for control of the family firm with his brother Douglas Kipper, and their cousin Patrick O'Kipper has decided to soothe tensions, sorry I mean fuel the fire, by giving his two-penneth. Meanwhile Old Man Wheeler's woken up, and we wait to see if this weeks episode brings the return of long-lost Robert Kilroy-Kipper.

    And Bruce Kipper reveals that he's transitioning and that, "To all intents and purposes, I am a federalist."
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    FTP @ Tissue Price and Ghedebrav

    Risk is hard to understand and very hard to teach (it's pretty much what I do). Even harder for the public to understanding is knowledge - what do and what can we know. Many people believe they understand from statistics far more than they actually can possibly know.

    On epistemology, I like the work of Andy Sterling at Brighton, and the sections of Nasim Taleb's book Black Swan that deal with analyzing past data - how each set of data can support whole families of internally consistent explanations, but how you cannot know which is the correct one.

    Nate Silver has always been pretty up front that he is not a political pundit, but a number cruncher pure and simple. If the input numbers are wrong, his analysis will be. I have always cautioned against taking his word as gospel, because inevitably at some unknowable points the numbers will be wrong.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    On UKIP/GOT, I listen to the commentaries and watch the extras on the DVD sets, and one event *is* called [dubbed by fans] the Purple Wedding.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    That Paddy Power blog by Damian McBride is an hilarious piece of comedic satire.

    Wait, it's meant to be serious? Oh. That's even funnier.

    Meant to drum up some easy cash for Paddy in the wake of the shellacking he probably took last week.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Any way of laying that 8/1? The bank don't pay me 12.5% interest...

    I was thinking the same thing - also if someone bets with a pber, the cash is not tied up on either side for a year.

    I'll lay £20 at 8-1 for any reputable PBer that wants the bet.
    Indeed. Baring a black swan, there is no event which will trigger Cameron going.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    FTP @ Ghedebrav re "wow, downward spiral"

    Bizarre, but not as unusual as you'd think. My organizational behaviour prof at INSEAD wrote a very entertaining book on this phenomenon, "Unstable at the Top" (Manfred Kets de Vries), which catalogues powerful innovators who built empires doomed to collapse, or at least undergo major ructions, upon their departure.

    https://books.google.com/books/about/Unstable_at_the_top.html?id=X_TsAAAAMAAJ&hl=en
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Oh god, it looks like Charlotte Church is trying to turn herself into the Welsh equivalent of Russell Brand. She has only just realised that those that you interact with on Twitter probably aren't representative of the whole country.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    On UKIP/GOT, I listen to the commentaries and watch the extras on the DVD sets, and one event *is* called [dubbed by fans] the Purple Wedding.

    Just as last thurs/friday was the Red Wedding!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: Did the last Labour govt overspend? Yvette Cooper refuses to say so on #wato. Shaping up to be biggest dividing line in #Labourleadership
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Ghedebrav said:

    Lamb would be my preference for LD leader on pure political terms, but Farron's the right man to rebuild around.

    Unlike Labour, I don't think LDs need a major policy-position rethink - beyond a few Tories they're the only liberal voice in parliament. A couple of big, bold, liberal ideas - e.g. recreational dug decriminalisation - could help rally the cause though.

    If they don't rethink their policy platform, they need to change the name of their party, and not in the way Farron suggested. They are currently not even a little bit liberal, and not remotely democratic. "The Statists" would be better or "The EU Commission London Branch Office" maybe.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MattChorley: Farage's chief of staff Raheem Kassam says he is not resigning http://t.co/GdpLk1oYN1
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JasonGroves1: Yvette Cooper coming across as the continuity Miliband candidate on #wato - not a good look
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    This Kipper fight is just beyond weird - what on Earth are they all thinking of?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TimPBouverie: Stuart Wheeler tells @MichaelLCrick that @DouglasCarswell is "obvious" person to succeed Nigel Farage http://t.co/vAqK17H212
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,008
    edited May 2015
    Good news for Farage. Winston McKenzie has just come out in support on wato ...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: The @Ukip Treasurer Hugh Williams says time has come for @Nigel_Farage to go and let party stand on its own feet #wato
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL

    Good news for Farage. Winston McKenzie has just come out in support on wato ...

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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,003
    Pulpstar said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Lamb would be my preference for LD leader on pure political terms, but Farron's the right man to rebuild around.

    Unlike Labour, I don't think LDs need a major policy-position rethink - beyond a few Tories they're the only liberal voice in parliament. A couple of big, bold, liberal ideas - e.g. recreational dug decriminalisation - could help rally the cause though.

    There is a huge gaping hole in British politics right now, I think Lamb might be better though - Farron is very SDLP comfort zone for left wingers.
    There is indeed, and it'll become increasingly apparent - and that's precisely why they aren't going to die out as some silly people have suggested.

    You're right on Farron; he doesn't have Lamb's intellectual hinterland - but right now the base needs to be re-enthused and expanded.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Did the last Labour govt overspend? Yvette Cooper refuses to say so on #wato. Shaping up to be biggest dividing line in #Labourleadership

    Her husband has already lost his job, now is not the time to slag down his career/legacy.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Any way of laying that 8/1? The bank don't pay me 12.5% interest...

    I was thinking the same thing - also if someone bets with a pber, the cash is not tied up on either side for a year.

    I'll lay £20 at 8-1 for any reputable PBer that wants the bet.
    Indeed. Baring a black swan, there is no event which will trigger Cameron going.
    Can't actually find the bet on PP, does it expire 1 year from now or at the end of 2016?

    If the former then it's literally that he he falls under a bus, if the latter then I guess it could only be that he offers an early referendum on EU and messes it up.
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,003
    MTimT said:

    FTP @ Ghedebrav re "wow, downward spiral"

    Bizarre, but not as unusual as you'd think. My organizational behaviour prof at INSEAD wrote a very entertaining book on this phenomenon, "Unstable at the Top" (Manfred Kets de Vries), which catalogues powerful innovators who built empires doomed to collapse, or at least undergo major ructions, upon their departure.

    https://books.google.com/books/about/Unstable_at_the_top.html?id=X_TsAAAAMAAJ&hl=en

    Interesting, thanks.

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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Yvette Cooper coming across as the continuity Miliband candidate on #wato - not a good look

    Both her and Burnham don't seem to have anything new to say at all.

    In fact, no one in labour does. Why doesn't come as put forward at least one bold new policy?

    If someone say (for example), we will nationalise all the railways at least they were saying something new. Instead of 'mumble, mumble aspiration, mumble mumble reaching out'

    Is Labour really that devoid of idea? Even if they are crap ones?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    This is not a helpful comment

    @politicshome: Ukip MEP Jonathan Arnott on Ukip chaos: "This is nothing new. What’s different..is it’s s/thing national newspapers are interested in" #wato
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    I think Farage is going to need Musa Kusa to spin him out of this, he's looking for a gig
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    Plato said:

    This Kipper fight is just beyond weird - what on Earth are they all thinking of?

    Deja Vu:
    https://twitter.com/britishfuture/status/491272695691378688
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Scott_P said:

    This is not a helpful comment

    @politicshome: Ukip MEP Jonathan Arnott on Ukip chaos: "This is nothing new. What’s different..is it’s s/thing national newspapers are interested in" #wato

    There are no US troops.....
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Scott_P said:

    This is not a helpful comment

    @politicshome: Ukip MEP Jonathan Arnott on Ukip chaos: "This is nothing new. What’s different..is it’s s/thing national newspapers are interested in" #wato

    It's five years (probably) until the next election, party discipline is going to be at an all time low after having to sit on their hands through a very long election campaign. Bun fights will probably occur in all parties in the next few weeks as people get it out of their system.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited May 2015

    Plato said:

    This Kipper fight is just beyond weird - what on Earth are they all thinking of?

    Deja Vu:
    https://twitter.com/britishfuture/status/491272695691378688
    1617 votes UK wide. Fewer than just about every other registered UK party. Dead, dead, dead
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Plato said:

    This Kipper fight is just beyond weird - what on Earth are they all thinking of?

    1617 votes UK wide. Fewer than just about every other registered UK party. Dead, dead, dead
    1617 votes?? Wow that is (thankfully) amazing.
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    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Yvette Cooper coming across as the continuity Miliband candidate on #wato - not a good look

    Yvette Cooper on WATO on R4 being very evasive and going on and on and on and on talking over the interviewer. Will be a great choice for Labour Leader from A Conservative point of view. Just imagine HIPS on the scale of a Govt? Kendall is the only one that frightens me.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Yvette Cooper coming across as the continuity Miliband candidate on #wato - not a good look

    Yvette Cooper on WATO on R4 being very evasive and going on and on and on and on talking over the interviewer. Will be a great choice for Labour Leader from A Conservative point of view. Just imagine HIPS on the scale of a Govt? Kendall is the only one that frightens me.
    Have a heart. Her household income has just plummeted by £67,000 a year plus expenses.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Plato said:

    This Kipper fight is just beyond weird - what on Earth are they all thinking of?

    1617 votes UK wide. Fewer than just about every other registered UK party. Dead, dead, dead
    1617 votes?? Wow that is (thankfully) amazing.
    I'd suggest they failed to attract a single vote outside party membership and friends and family of candidates. Makes Owens performance in the Bootle by-election look stratospheric
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited May 2015
    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party? Nominations don't close until August, so it could be done at the last minute.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Plato said:

    This Kipper fight is just beyond weird - what on Earth are they all thinking of?

    Deja Vu:
    https://twitter.com/britishfuture/status/491272695691378688
    Nick Griffin bloody hell, glad we've seen the back of him.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    watford30 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Yvette Cooper coming across as the continuity Miliband candidate on #wato - not a good look

    Yvette Cooper on WATO on R4 being very evasive and going on and on and on and on talking over the interviewer. Will be a great choice for Labour Leader from A Conservative point of view. Just imagine HIPS on the scale of a Govt? Kendall is the only one that frightens me.
    Have a heart. Her household income has just plummeted by £67,000 a year plus expenses.
    Plus she now has to put up with people asking 'didn't your husband used to be someone?'
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Just caught up with the latest Kipper infighting.

    Not so different now boys, eh.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    We need to see the Stafford butcher being booed at Anfield again. Standing there looking all Everton and sincere.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    edited May 2015
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party?

    Too late now, that could have worked if a move was done last friday or if Ed had hung around a bit.

    Edit: On that i am actually suprised Ed just vanished straight away, of course his days were numbered, but he could have stayed to sort out some of the fallout.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party? Nominations don't close until August, so it could be done at the last minute.

    That's James Kirkup's thesis here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11605188/Is-Labour-actually-only-picking-a-temporary-leader.html

    Can't see it now that everyone has declared. In any case Labour need a proper barney of a leadership contest.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party?

    Too late now, that could have worked if a move was done last friday or if Ed had hung around a bit.


    Give it to Skinner with back up from Meacher and McDonnell. Milly Tant central
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited May 2015

    We need to see the Stafford butcher being booed at Anfield again. Standing there looking all Everton and sincere.

    To be fair to him, he did let the booing get to his heart, and ended up supporting the Justice campaign.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-z3mBIi084Q#t=49
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited May 2015
    If Labour had any sense they'd beg Bryan Gould to come back from NZ
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    Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Pulpstar said:

    Got to see Tessa and Khan enter the Mayoral race.

    Lord Coe to have a rethink over the IAAF job (Or lose to Bubka) and Goldsmith next please !

    David Lammy is a great candidate - he's the one who said it's OK to steal from big shops because they can afford it.

    On that basis presumably it's even more OK to steal from the state?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Did the last Labour govt overspend? Yvette Cooper refuses to say so on #wato. Shaping up to be biggest dividing line in #Labourleadership

    Her husband has already lost his job, now is not the time to slag down his career/legacy.
    When is the time to do so?

    Either she does, or she's unelectable (by the country). If she's unwilling to do so, perhaps she should retire.
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    Thoughts on Labour from a totally unsympathetic observer (and no pretence that these are surprising, original or scientifically tested either):

    Labour had four legs to its stool:

    - Scots
    - ethnic minorities
    - Guardianista
    - WWC

    Labour should pick a new leader most likely to maximise these. The Scots are gone in FPTP elections, maybe for good. The Guardianista lot seem pretty loyal - though a few may be flirting with the Greens, their numbers will have been boosted by red LDs. The ethnic minorities are amazingly loyal, except in special cases, and their share of the vote is growing. The WWC are in danger of going to UKIP. So Labour need to pick a leader most likely to appeal to the English and Welsh WWC. And one who will put in place the right policies in areas that are important to them, above all housing, immigration and the economy.

    And to win over the floating voter they need a leader who is seen as more competent than the Tories. Floating voters are mostly, almost by definition, non-ideological, and will back a competent bastard over an incompetent nice guy. That needs the Conservatives to mess up on the economy as well.

    Not sure which one of the leadership candidates has those qualities, but it is fairly obvious which ones (e.g. Hunt) don't.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That's superb! #CoupKIP
    Scott_P said:
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party? Nominations don't close until August, so it could be done at the last minute.

    That's close to what I suggested this morning. Whoever is crowned in September should step down a year or two before the next election, and a new leader should take over once they know what they are fighting and how
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @charlotteahenry: Desperate to write Ukip wars story under headline: The day the poles turned
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party? Nominations don't close until August, so it could be done at the last minute.

    AJ a three figure price... Seems ok to me
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Fishing said:

    Thoughts on Labour from a totally unsympathetic observer (and no pretence that these are surprising, original or scientifically tested either):

    Labour had four legs to its stool:

    - Scots
    - ethnic minorities
    - Guardianista
    - WWC

    Labour should pick a new leader most likely to maximise these. The Scots are gone in FPTP elections, maybe for good. The Guardianista lot seem pretty loyal - though a few may be flirting with the Greens, their numbers will have been boosted by red LDs. The ethnic minorities are amazingly loyal, except in special cases, and their share of the vote is growing. The WWC are in danger of going to UKIP. So Labour need to pick a leader most likely to appeal to the English and Welsh WWC. And one who will put in place the right policies in areas that are important to them, above all housing, immigration and the economy.

    And to win over the floating voter they need a leader who is seen as more competent than the Tories. Floating voters are mostly, almost by definition, non-ideological, and will back a competent bastard over an incompetent nice guy. That needs the Conservatives to mess up on the economy as well.

    Not sure which one of the leadership candidates has those qualities, but it is fairly obvious which ones (e.g. Hunt) don't.

    Without being ridiculous, this would have been the ideal time for Prezza
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    SaltireSaltire Posts: 525

    watford30 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Yvette Cooper coming across as the continuity Miliband candidate on #wato - not a good look

    Yvette Cooper on WATO on R4 being very evasive and going on and on and on and on talking over the interviewer. Will be a great choice for Labour Leader from A Conservative point of view. Just imagine HIPS on the scale of a Govt? Kendall is the only one that frightens me.
    Have a heart. Her household income has just plummeted by £67,000 a year plus expenses.
    Plus she now has to put up with people asking 'didn't your husband used to be someone?'
    Her husband is the biggest thing against her candidacy. The constant reminder of what went wrong post-Blair will, I believe, make members think about wanting to move on from that chapter in Labour history.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Scott_P said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party? Nominations don't close until August, so it could be done at the last minute.

    That's close to what I suggested this morning. Whoever is crowned in September should step down a year or two before the next election, and a new leader should take over once they know what they are fighting and how
    Yeah..that aint going to happen.

    But its a reasonable idea, it usually takes a year or two for new leader to lose sheen/shininess/energy. One reason why the SNP have done so well with Sturgeon, she's still new in the job.

    any labour leader will, like Ed have had 5 years in the job, and thats not always a good thing.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Scott_P said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party? Nominations don't close until August, so it could be done at the last minute.

    That's close to what I suggested this morning. Whoever is crowned in September should step down a year or two before the next election, and a new leader should take over once they know what they are fighting and how
    It could happen by accident. Labour might be about to elect their IDS. If Burnham is polling terribly in 2018 then they might finally learn the art of regicide.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Did the last Labour govt overspend? Yvette Cooper refuses to say so on #wato. Shaping up to be biggest dividing line in #Labourleadership

    Her husband has already lost his job, now is not the time to slag down his career/legacy.
    When is the time to do so?

    Either she does, or she's unelectable (by the country). If she's unwilling to do so, perhaps she should retire.
    Unequivocally, now is the time to do so - my point was to highlight her conflict of interest.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party? Nominations don't close until August, so it could be done at the last minute.

    That's James Kirkup's thesis here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11605188/Is-Labour-actually-only-picking-a-temporary-leader.html

    Can't see it now that everyone has declared. In any case Labour need a proper barney of a leadership contest.
    Didn't see that, but great minds & all that ;)

    They need to take some serious time out to look at who they are as a party, and what they stand for. They also need anyone who was close to Blair and Brown well out of the way if they're to appeal to the wider population in advance of the election.
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    Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I wonder that the next Labour leader is not anyone we've discussed so far, but rather an old party Grandee in the Michael Howard mold?

    Not someone that will go to a 2020 election them self but will develop the younger talent in the party and choose a successor in late 2018 or early 2019, after the party has decided what it stands for.

    Hattie or the Postman could do it, who else has sufficient respect among the whole party? Nominations don't close until August, so it could be done at the last minute.

    Would be sensible if it looked like actually working out that way. In practice, I suspect it would just ensure the candidates spent the next three years trying stitch up the union vote for themselves, and Butcher would still win.

    Meanwhile this process would furnish the Tories with a whole load of quotes to throw at them in the GE, like the Balls-Miliband non-dom fiasco.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Fishing said:

    Thoughts on Labour from a totally unsympathetic observer (and no pretence that these are surprising, original or scientifically tested either):

    Labour had four legs to its stool:

    - Scots
    - ethnic minorities
    - Guardianista
    - WWC

    Labour should pick a new leader most likely to maximise these. The Scots are gone in FPTP elections, maybe for good. The Guardianista lot seem pretty loyal - though a few may be flirting with the Greens, their numbers will have been boosted by red LDs. The ethnic minorities are amazingly loyal, except in special cases, and their share of the vote is growing. The WWC are in danger of going to UKIP. So Labour need to pick a leader most likely to appeal to the English and Welsh WWC. And one who will put in place the right policies in areas that are important to them, above all housing, immigration and the economy.

    And to win over the floating voter they need a leader who is seen as more competent than the Tories. Floating voters are mostly, almost by definition, non-ideological, and will back a competent bastard over an incompetent nice guy. That needs the Conservatives to mess up on the economy as well.

    Not sure which one of the leadership candidates has those qualities, but it is fairly obvious which ones (e.g. Hunt) don't.

    Without being ridiculous, this would have been the ideal time for Prezza
    Competent?
This discussion has been closed.