But if I 'really' have to spell it out for Speedy … 1 Tory (me), 1 on the fence but mostly Tory, 1 kipper, 3 don't knows but pro-Cameron and very anti EdM.
Amazingly scientific survey. I could vie with Ashcroft.
So at 9.55 you say there were 4.5 kippers and at 9.58 you say there was 1 kipper.
I don't think you've worked out this anecdote very well.
I'd be interested in the crossbreaks of the Johnson question. I guess any gains Labour would make from 2010 Labour don't knows and UKIP would be cancelled out by Lib Dem switchers leaving
But the crucial thing is net result zero. Ed Miliband is not Labour's problem, it's that it's not left wing and WWC enough to prevent losing votes.
Labours problem is that socialism had been tried to destruction and found to be mince.
The public have had enough.
The problem is the public want it back, both the Labour party base and the Tory party base crave for a return to the policies of the 80's, they demand Socialism and Thatcherism.
As proven also by a NYT article that I posted, the moderate centrists are a minority, the majority of the public are extremists.
Interesting - my own serious feeling is that the public in large numbers simply do not want to face the reality that the country must endure falling/stagnant living standard for another 20 years along with the rest of Europe. We simply cannot continue to live as we have done on debt which is largely provided by foreign countries which have less good standards of living than ourselves. Twenty years of cold turkey is the right medicine but the piblic don't want to take it.
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilisations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."
22:02, UK, Saturday 08 November 2014 Ed Miliband is facing a fresh crisis amid new opinion polls suggesting support for his leadership of Labour is falling dramatically.
There are also reports of discontent from within his shadow cabinet, with one member apparently calling him a "total failure".
I'd be interested in the crossbreaks of the Johnson question. I guess any gains Labour would make from 2010 Labour don't knows and UKIP would be cancelled out by Lib Dem switchers leaving
But the crucial thing is net result zero. Ed Miliband is not Labour's problem, it's that it's not left wing and WWC enough to prevent losing votes.
Labours problem is that socialism had been tried to destruction and found to be mince.
The public have had enough.
The problem is the public want it back, both the Labour party base and the Tory party base crave for a return to the policies of the 80's, they demand Socialism and Thatcherism.
As proven also by a NYT article that I posted, the moderate centrists are a minority, the majority of the public are extremists.
Interesting - my own serious feeling is that the public in large numbers simply do not want to face the reality that the country must endure falling/stagnant living standard for another 20 years along with the rest of Europe. We simply cannot continue to live as we have done on debt which is largely provided by foreign countries which have less good standards of living than ourselves. Twenty years of cold turkey is the right medicine but the piblic don't want to take it.
Agreed, and people are gravitating to the extreme positions, as only the extreme positions would avoid such issues or assume their party can overcome it easily.
22:02, UK, Saturday 08 November 2014 Ed Miliband is facing a fresh crisis amid new opinion polls suggesting support for his leadership of Labour is falling dramatically.
There are also reports of discontent from within his shadow cabinet, with one member apparently calling him a "total failure".
@BBCPolitics: Ed Miliband is set to warn that threats to leave the EU are a "clear and present danger" to the UK's future... http://t.co/n0ybGDTckU
Coming of the fence on the EU and being positively pro EU at a time like this: After all that sort of thing has worked out really well for Nick Clegg and the Libdems this year.
I'd be interested in the crossbreaks of the Johnson question. I guess any gains Labour would make from 2010 Labour don't knows and UKIP would be cancelled out by Lib Dem switchers leaving
But the crucial thing is net result zero. Ed Miliband is not Labour's problem, it's that it's not left wing and WWC enough to prevent losing votes.
Labours problem is that socialism had been tried to destruction and found to be mince.
The public have had enough.
The problem is the public want it back, both the Labour party base and the Tory party base crave for a return to the policies of the 80's, they demand Socialism and Thatcherism.
As proven also by a NYT article that I posted, the moderate centrists are a minority, the majority of the public are extremists.
Interesting - my own serious feeling is that the public in large numbers simply do not want to face the reality that the country must endure falling/stagnant living standard for another 20 years along with the rest of Europe. We simply cannot continue to live as we have done on debt which is largely provided by foreign countries which have less good standards of living than ourselves. Twenty years of cold turkey is the right medicine but the piblic don't want to take it.
You might like to take that up with Cameron and Osborne with their "paying down Britain's debts" claims and their magic money tree funded promises.
Ed is making a speech to the CBI on Monday I believe. Its the last final and only chance to secure himself for the run up to the GE. If he has an "Ed moment" or forgets the economy then to all intents and purposes he will be a gonna. Dead finished ....over and out.
COME ON ED!!!!! You can do it ...you can ....have faith man!
DUEMA # SaveEd # WebackEd
Yes a speech about how great the EU s for Britain - now that's a speech that requires a lot of intellectual self-confidence to make these days.
Was Hunt just being indiscreet or has he gone totally AWOL? Ed gave him a massive promotion only a few months ago.
Considering he was backing Ed Miliband quite strongly only yesterday, it seems to have been a big error in judgement on his part and terrible use of words, he doesn't seem the smartest.
Danczuk on the other hand is toxic and Labour should get rid.
But if I 'really' have to spell it out for Speedy … 1 Tory (me), 1 on the fence but mostly Tory, 1 kipper, 3 don't knows but pro-Cameron and very anti EdM.
Amazingly scientific survey. I could vie with Ashcroft.
So at 9.55 you say there were 4.5 kippers and at 9.58 you say there was 1 kipper.
I don't think you've worked out this anecdote very well.
Are you obtuse or just very very very thick? 1 Tory (moi-même) 1 on fence poss Tory poss d/k = 0.5 so that's 1.5 Tory 3 don't knows - 3.5 don't know 1 kipper
Shall we get back to Ed Miliband rather than this dinner party which is taking on more of an epic proportion on here than the actual event?
@joeyjonessky: Ah so the critical @TristramHuntMP quotes are from "private conversations with senior Labour colleagues." Extraordinary; nasty infighting.
Outraged Lefties on Twitter claiming 'Tristram is innocent..."
Labour clearly not as inured to rebellious talk as the Tories are by this point, even with less named troublemakers than the Tories can count on with regularity.
colleagues. He said: ‘I never believed the answer to Labour’s problems was to show people more of Ed Miliband. It was a ridiculous idea dreamed up by his advisers who have served him badly. ‘It has been a complete failure. It is making things worse, not better. Ed has excellent qualities but that is not the way to show them. It is absurd.’
On the bright side now that Danczuk has outed himself we know it is storm in a teacup. He foams at the mouth sounding like a kipper banging on about migration as the son of a migrant in a town transformed by migration over the last 50 years, so if he is the cheerleader of this putsch its no wonder it keeps needing fresh press screeching to keep it going.
Labour descending into chaos and infighting six months before an election when its obvious that its far too late to replace the leader is Lynton Crosby heaven.
My belief is that there are a significant number of senior Labour MP's who literally do not think Ed.M is actually up to the job of PM. he would be lime a rabbit caught in the headlights. Its not really about him being seen as weird but the great problem he has on reaching a decision. For example when he was Sec of State for Environment he drove his top civil servants mad with this problem. In the end it was the conviction that IDS wasn't up to the job of leading us Blues that cost him his job. These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
But if I 'really' have to spell it out for Speedy … 1 Tory (me), 1 on the fence but mostly Tory, 1 kipper, 3 don't knows but pro-Cameron and very anti EdM.
Amazingly scientific survey. I could vie with Ashcroft.
So at 9.55 you say there were 4.5 kippers and at 9.58 you say there was 1 kipper.
I don't think you've worked out this anecdote very well.
Are you obtuse or just very very very thick? 1 Tory (moi-même) 1 on fence poss Tory poss d/k = 0.5 so that's 1.5 Tory 3 don't knows - 3.5 don't know 1 kipper
Shall we get back to Ed Miliband rather than this dinner party which is taking on more of an epic proportion on here than the actual event?
George should have you on his negotiating team, Audrey.
colleagues. He said: ‘I never believed the answer to Labour’s problems was to show people more of Ed Miliband. It was a ridiculous idea dreamed up by his advisers who have served him badly. ‘It has been a complete failure. It is making things worse, not better. Ed has excellent qualities but that is not the way to show them. It is absurd.’
So Hunt didn't say what the newspaper said he said. That leaves only Danczuk, so it's a fuss about nothing.
Ed should stick it out. All this trouble his way, and he would still easily be PM on the current polling, and how much more exposure is he really going to get in the run up to the GE that would turn those who are sticking with him now to turn to the Tories in large enough numbers to prevent that? Only the Scottish collapse can save Cameron it seems.
I'd be interested in the crossbreaks of the Johnson question. I guess any gains Labour would make from 2010 Labour don't knows and UKIP would be cancelled out by Lib Dem switchers leaving
But the crucial thing is net result zero. Ed Miliband is not Labour's problem, it's that it's not left wing and WWC enough to prevent losing votes.
Labours problem is that socialism had been tried to destruction and found to be mince.
The public have had enough.
The problem is the public want it back, both the Labour party base and the Tory party base crave for a return to the policies of the 80's, they demand Socialism and Thatcherism.
As proven also by a NYT article that I posted, the moderate centrists are a minority, the majority of the public are extremists.
Interesting - my own serious feeling is that the public in large numbers simply do not want to face the reality that the country must endure falling/stagnant living standard for another 20 years along with the rest of Europe. We simply cannot continue to live as we have done on debt which is largely provided by foreign countries which have less good standards of living than ourselves. Twenty years of cold turkey is the right medicine but the piblic don't want to take it.
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilisations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."
The headline polling is nowhere near as bad as the media spin / outcry against Miliband leadership. Either the VI polls are total nonsense or the supplementals are, as the supplementals are that bad, even Nick Clegg is more popular.
colleagues. He said: ‘I never believed the answer to Labour’s problems was to show people more of Ed Miliband. It was a ridiculous idea dreamed up by his advisers who have served him badly. ‘It has been a complete failure. It is making things worse, not better. Ed has excellent qualities but that is not the way to show them. It is absurd.’
So Hunt didn't say what the newspaper said he said. That leaves only Danczuk, so it's a fuss about nothing.
Ed should stick it out. All this trouble his way, and he would still easily be PM on the current polling, and how much more exposure is he really going to get in the run up to the GE that would turn those who are sticking with him now to turn to the Tories in large enough numbers to prevent that? Only the Scottish collapse can save Cameron it seems.
Indeed all this fuss about him and Labour is still in the lead and perhaps increasing it slightly this week.
The headline polling is nowhere near as bad as the media spin / outcry against Miliband leadership. Either the VI polls are total nonsense or the supplementals are, as the supplementals make Nick Clegg look like he has a chance for PM.
Agreed.
What an extraordinary storm considering the polls don't back it up.
Going to bed. I expect EdM will still be here come February when the GE campaign actually starts. This is a lot of froth and bubble by the look of it. We all need Christmas to distract us.
I'd be interested in the crossbreaks of the Johnson question. I guess any gains Labour would make from 2010 Labour don't knows and UKIP would be cancelled out by Lib Dem switchers leaving
But the crucial thing is net result zero. Ed Miliband is not Labour's problem, it's that it's not left wing and WWC enough to prevent losing votes.
Labours problem is that socialism had been tried to destruction and found to be mince.
The public have had enough.
The problem is the public want it back, both the Labour party base and the Tory party base crave for a return to the policies of the 80's, they demand Socialism and Thatcherism.
As proven also by a NYT article that I posted, the moderate centrists are a minority, the majority of the public are extremists.
Interesting - my own serious feeling is that the public in large numbers simply do not want to face the reality that the country must endure falling/stagnant living standard for another 20 years along with the rest of Europe. We simply cannot continue to live as we have done on debt which is largely provided by foreign countries which have less good standards of living than ourselves. Twenty years of cold turkey is the right medicine but the piblic don't want to take it.
You might like to take that up with Cameron and Osborne with their "paying down Britain's debts" claims and their magic money tree funded promises.
Oh dear -- smarting that the EU budget deal not dominating the papers are we. You conveniently forget that all of Cameron's speeches about tax cuts are predicated on continuing to reduce the deficit.
My belief is that there are a significant number of senior Labour MP's who literally do not think Ed.M is actually up to the job of PM. he would be lime a rabbit caught in the headlights. Its not really about him being seen as weird but the great problem he has on reaching a decision. For example when he was Sec of State for Environment he drove his top civil servants mad with this problem. In the end it was the conviction that IDS wasn't up to the job of leading us Blues that cost him his job. These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
Well said, Peter.
Labour may win despite their Leader. Tories may lose in spite of theirs. Both Parties cutting a poor impression. Farage prospering without doing a thing.
These opinion polls with various labour leaders are not telling us much. Tory votes remain identical while labour voters use them to express their views on various members of the shadow cabinet.
As for Ed banging on about how wonderful the EU is at a time like this. Iceberg, what Iceberg?
My belief is that there are a significant number of senior Labour MP's who literally do not think Ed.M is actually up to the job of PM. he would be lime a rabbit caught in the headlights. Its not really about him being seen as weird but the great problem he has on reaching a decision. For example when he was Sec of State for Environment he drove his top civil servants mad with this problem. In the end it was the conviction that IDS wasn't up to the job of leading us Blues that cost him his job. These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
Well said, Peter.
Labour may win despite their Leader. Tories may lose in spite of theirs. Both Parties cutting a poor impression. Farage prospering without doing a thing.
Wtf is it going to be like after Rochester?
We might have Survation showing the Tories in third place, as for ousting Cameron the chances are 2/1.
Odds on both Milliband and Cameron gone before the GE? For all the excitement over the bazillion labour MPs stabbing Milliband, we already have reports of over a score of letters deposited with the 1922 calling for a leadership contest, and the Rochester by election was supposed to be the Tories punishing UKIP and showing who's boss.....
David Davis is on a par with a traitorous pig dog.
He's written a piece on the Sunday Times.
THERESA MAY, the home secretary, has been accused of making “blood-curdling” and “patently untrue” claims about the dangers posed by opting out of the European arrest warrant ahead of a crunch Commons vote.
Writing in The Sunday Times, David Davis, a former Tory backbencher, challenged May over her warnings that Britain would become a safe haven for European criminals should MPs vote against the controversial warrant tomorrow. His comments reflect the anger of Eurosceptic Tory backbenchers at the tone of a robust lobbying campaign by May and Downing Street, which is aimed at containing a backbench rebellion.
The headline polling is nowhere near as bad as the media spin / outcry against Miliband leadership. Either the VI polls are total nonsense or the supplementals are, as the supplementals make Nick Clegg look like he has a chance for PM.
Agreed.
What an extraordinary storm considering the polls don't back it up.
Going to bed. I expect EdM will still be here come February when the GE campaign actually starts. This is a lot of froth and bubble by the look of it. We all need Christmas to distract us.
Yes but wiser heads in Labour know that wot with the economy booming that under the spotlight of A GE campaign Ed will fold like a cheap suit. Monkeys that Baxter today's polls are deluded.
But if I 'really' have to spell it out for Speedy … 1 Tory (me), 1 on the fence but mostly Tory, 1 kipper, 3 don't knows but pro-Cameron and very anti EdM.
Amazingly scientific survey. I could vie with Ashcroft.
So at 9.55 you say there were 4.5 kippers and at 9.58 you say there was 1 kipper.
I don't think you've worked out this anecdote very well.
Are you obtuse or just very very very thick? 1 Tory (moi-même) 1 on fence poss Tory poss d/k = 0.5 so that's 1.5 Tory 3 don't knows - 3.5 don't know 1 kipper
Shall we get back to Ed Miliband rather than this dinner party which is taking on more of an epic proportion on here than the actual event?
So why did you initially say there were 4.5 kippers ?
Are you forgetful, struggle with basic arithmetic or making up the anecdote as you go along ?
Little bit of advice - get your 'facts' straight before posting comments or you appear very, very, very thick.
My belief is that there are a significant number of senior Labour MP's who literally do not think Ed.M is actually up to the job of PM. he would be lime a rabbit caught in the headlights. Its not really about him being seen as weird but the great problem he has on reaching a decision. For example when he was Sec of State for Environment he drove his top civil servants mad with this problem. In the end it was the conviction that IDS wasn't up to the job of leading us Blues that cost him his job. These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
Well said, Peter.
Labour may win despite their Leader. Tories may lose in spite of theirs. Both Parties cutting a poor impression. Farage prospering without doing a thing.
Wtf is it going to be like after Rochester?
We might have Survation showing the Tories in third place, as for ousting Cameron the chances are 2/1.
Yes, I would say it's odds on at least one poll putting UKIP ahead of Con before the end of the year.
Lib Dems on 6 percent. And Nick Clegg, of the three party leaders, sleeps most soundly tonight .
Politics is nuts. He should gone a year ago.
Yes he should have, although they seemed to have reached a steady floor of 9-10 for a couple of years which made hoping for a rise to the mid teens at GE time seem more plausible, and now they've left it too late I guess.
Also, on this talk of Cameron being a good leader, I have to disagree. I've given him a lot of slack I feel, and unlike Lab voters I don't think he's been terrible as PM, I'd be relaxed about him getting back in, moreso than if (when) Ed M gets in even, but he's been an atrocious leader of his own party since 2010. He has no control over large numbers of them, and no hope of enticing them on to his side or drawing back the voters they represent or those who have left for UKIP, and although tacking all the way to the right would not have won things for him, facing as weak an opposition as he is, he cannot win having leaked so much support to that area. Having failed to prevent a situation wherein the opposition are doing so poorly but will probably still win, and his own party are a shambles, surely speaks ill of his qualities as a leader.
David Davis is on a par with a traitorous pig dog.
He's written a piece on the Sunday Times.
THERESA MAY, the home secretary, has been accused of making “blood-curdling” and “patently untrue” claims about the dangers posed by opting out of the European arrest warrant ahead of a crunch Commons vote.
Writing in The Sunday Times, David Davis, a former Tory backbencher, challenged May over her warnings that Britain would become a safe haven for European criminals should MPs vote against the controversial warrant tomorrow. His comments reflect the anger of Eurosceptic Tory backbenchers at the tone of a robust lobbying campaign by May and Downing Street, which is aimed at containing a backbench rebellion.
The headline polling is nowhere near as bad as the media spin / outcry against Miliband leadership. Either the VI polls are total nonsense or the supplementals are, as the supplementals make Nick Clegg look like he has a chance for PM.
Agreed.
What an extraordinary storm considering the polls don't back it up.
Going to bed. I expect EdM will still be here come February when the GE campaign actually starts. This is a lot of froth and bubble by the look of it. We all need Christmas to distract us.
Yes but wiser heads in Labour know that wot with the economy booming that under the spotlight of A GE campaign Ed will fold like a cheap suit. Monkeys that Baxter today's polls are deluded.
Didn't Osborne warn us growth would be slowing shortly? I presume he did so because things will start to look rosy before 2015 and he knows that.
My belief is that there are a significant number of senior Labour MP's who literally do not think Ed.M is actually up to the job of PM. he would be lime a rabbit caught in the headlights. Its not really about him being seen as weird but the great problem he has on reaching a decision. For example when he was Sec of State for Environment he drove his top civil servants mad with this problem. In the end it was the conviction that IDS wasn't up to the job of leading us Blues that cost him his job. These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
Well said, Peter.
Labour may win despite their Leader. Tories may lose in spite of theirs. Both Parties cutting a poor impression. Farage prospering without doing a thing.
Wtf is it going to be like after Rochester?
We might have Survation showing the Tories in third place, as for ousting Cameron the chances are 2/1.
Yes, I would say it's odds on at least one poll putting UKIP ahead of Con before the end of the year.
Shame there's no market on it.
Mike's has asked a couple of bookies to put up a market on UKIP outpolling Con or Lab before the next election.
@ParlProvocateur: Had dinner with a senior Tory minister tonight who told me: "If Labour ditch Ed, no matter who takes over, we will lose the election."
Odds on both Milliband and Cameron gone before the GE? For all the excitement over the bazillion labour MPs stabbing Milliband, we already have reports of over a score of letters deposited with the 1922 calling for a leadership contest, and the Rochester by election was supposed to be the Tories punishing UKIP and showing who's boss.....
Out of curiosity have we had any Rochester canvassing anecdotes other than anothernick's (Lab) earlier this week ?
My belief is that there are a significant number of senior Labour MP's who literally do not think Ed.M is actually up to the job of PM. he would be lime a rabbit caught in the headlights. Its not really about him being seen as weird but the great problem he has on reaching a decision. For example when he was Sec of State for Environment he drove his top civil servants mad with this problem. In the end it was the conviction that IDS wasn't up to the job of leading us Blues that cost him his job. These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
Well said, Peter.
Labour may win despite their Leader. Tories may lose in spite of theirs. Both Parties cutting a poor impression. Farage prospering without doing a thing.
Wtf is it going to be like after Rochester?
We might have Survation showing the Tories in third place, as for ousting Cameron the chances are 2/1.
Yes, I would say it's odds on at least one poll putting UKIP ahead of Con before the end of the year.
Shame there's no market on it.
There may even be a poll putting UKIP in first place. It would be something like 28/27/27.
This election is going to be as fascinating as the 1983 election would have been if there had been no Falklands War and the gang of four split from Labour in June 1982.
Odds on both Milliband and Cameron gone before the GE? For all the excitement over the bazillion labour MPs stabbing Milliband, we already have reports of over a score of letters deposited with the 1922 calling for a leadership contest, and the Rochester by election was supposed to be the Tories punishing UKIP and showing who's boss.....
Out of curiosity have we had any Rochester canvassing anecdotes other than anothernick's (Lab) earlier this week ?
Yes, did you not see Jake Rees-Mogg and son campaigning in Rochester & Strood
Britain Elects @britainelects 1m1 minute ago Is quitting as leader the best thing Ed Miliband can do to help Labour? (Survation) LAB voters only: Yes - 36% No - 36%
My belief is that there are a significant number of senior Labour MP's who literally do not think Ed.M is actually up to the job of PM. he would be lime a rabbit caught in the headlights. Its not really about him being seen as weird but the great problem he has on reaching a decision. For example when he was Sec of State for Environment he drove his top civil servants mad with this problem. In the end it was the conviction that IDS wasn't up to the job of leading us Blues that cost him his job. These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
Well said, Peter.
Labour may win despite their Leader. Tories may lose in spite of theirs. Both Parties cutting a poor impression. Farage prospering without doing a thing.
Wtf is it going to be like after Rochester?
We might have Survation showing the Tories in third place, as for ousting Cameron the chances are 2/1.
Yes, I would say it's odds on at least one poll putting UKIP ahead of Con before the end of the year.
Shame there's no market on it.
There may even be a poll putting UKIP in first place. It would be something like 28/27/27.
We know that the most likely one would be Survation, and talking about Survation looking at the tables even if Labour changes leader it doesn't affect the vote shares of the other parties, UKIP and the LD still get the same vote share and the Tories only get a boost from Burnham at no one's expense.
My belief is that there are a significant number of senior Labour MP's who literally do not think Ed.M is actually up to the job of PM. he would be lime a rabbit caught in the headlights. Its not really about him being seen as weird but the great problem he has on reaching a decision. For example when he was Sec of State for Environment he drove his top civil servants mad with this problem. In the end it was the conviction that IDS wasn't up to the job of leading us Blues that cost him his job. These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
Well said, Peter.
Labour may win despite their Leader. Tories may lose in spite of theirs. Both Parties cutting a poor impression. Farage prospering without doing a thing.
Wtf is it going to be like after Rochester?
We might have Survation showing the Tories in third place, as for ousting Cameron the chances are 2/1.
Yes, I would say it's odds on at least one poll putting UKIP ahead of Con before the end of the year.
Shame there's no market on it.
There may even be a poll putting UKIP in first place. It would be something like 28/27/27.
That could be dangerous, Andy. I might split my sides laughing.
I can exclusively reveal that all 3 polls ie both real polls and the WI poll
Would result in............ EICIPM as would every poll since i have been posting ie June 2014.
The October erosion of the LAB lead has reversed in the early NOV polls so far so to quote Dave
calm down dears!!
In all seriousness John, imagine for one second he scrapes a win on those numbers.
What do you think happens next?
Still a lot of unpopular decisions to be made.
I don't rate Ed much higher than the Ed is Crap brigade but it will not stop me voting Lab to try to get rid of the Tories.
I will take my chances on it being a longer term disaster for LAB, but you have to take each GE as it comes (football manager speak).
With MPs like Danczuk and Mann it may well be but I agree with Eds policies that the better off have to shoulder the burden of deficit reduction and thats what matters to me.
I honestly believe EIC will be PM but lets see what happens.
Comments
This is much less serious than the last plot to oust Cameron.
I don't think you've worked out this anecdote very well.
EICIPM
What on earth are ICM doing releasing 2012 polls tonight!!!
There are also reports of discontent from within his shadow cabinet, with one member apparently calling him a "total failure".
http://news.sky.com/story/1369726/ed-miliband-in-fresh-crisis-over-leadership
"Ed is Crap"
The average age of the world's greatest civilisations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."
Alexander Fraser Tytler (allegedly)
http://news.sky.com
Blimey.
Didn't really believe EdM would go but I'm just wondering now if he might. How can he recover from this for Labour in time for the GE?
22:02, UK, Saturday 08 November 2014
Ed Miliband is facing a fresh crisis amid new opinion polls suggesting support for his leadership of Labour is falling dramatically.
There are also reports of discontent from within his shadow cabinet, with one member apparently calling him a "total failure".
No wonder his MPs are dispairing.
Danczuk on the other hand is toxic and Labour should get rid.
1 Tory (moi-même)
1 on fence poss Tory poss d/k = 0.5 so that's 1.5 Tory
3 don't knows - 3.5 don't know
1 kipper
Shall we get back to Ed Miliband rather than this dinner party which is taking on more of an epic proportion on here than the actual event?
Lab 34 (+3), Con 29 (+2) LD 6 (-3) UKIP 23 (-1)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826937/Ed-shadow-minister-plunges-dagger-Tristram-Hunt-joins-Labour-revolt-poll-says-Miliband-liability.html
But when Mike is back please, so TSE can get some shut-eye.
Outraged Lefties on Twitter claiming 'Tristram is innocent..."
in my opinion
Second poll of the night with the Tories on 29%
colleagues.
He said: ‘I never believed the answer to Labour’s problems was to show people more of Ed Miliband. It was a ridiculous idea dreamed up by his advisers who have served him badly.
‘It has been a complete failure. It is making things worse, not better. Ed has excellent qualities but that is not the way to show them. It is absurd.’
National Opinion Poll with Alan Johnson as Labour leader (Survation):
LAB - 37% (+3)
CON - 29% (-)
Delighted to have @TristramHuntMP visit @RochdaleSFC today - he was very well received
Well look who Hunt met on Thursday
These polls are not great at all for the Conservatives but its not their Leader who is dragging the numbers down. However we may well find that Labour will keep their useless Leader but the Tories will assassinate their good one!. The assassins will be led by David Davis who has a final very slim window of opportunity to become Leader and that is immediately post Rochester. How he must (and the rest of the plotters) be praying for a Ukip win. How as a longstanding member of the Conservative Party, I loathe these people with their wretched shenanigans.
National Opinion Poll with Andy Burnham as Labour leader (Survation):
LAB - 36% (+2)
CON - 32% (+3)
Wtf?
George should have you on his negotiating team, Audrey.
Your figures do at least add up.
Note the Lib Dems are on 6% not 9%
#FeckMeEverythingIsHappeningTonight
That leaves only Danczuk, so it's a fuss about nothing.
National Opinion Poll with Yvette Cooper as Labour leader (Survation):
LAB - 31% (-3)
CON - 31% (+2)
Plot thickens.
National Opinion Poll with Andy Burnham as Labour leader (Survation):
LAB - 36% (+2)
CON - 32% (+3)
Britain Elects @britainelects 3m3 minutes ago
National Opinion Poll with Chuka Umunna as Labour leader (Survation):
LAB - 37% (+3)
CON - 29% (-)
Britain Elects @britainelects 46s47 seconds ago
National Opinion Poll (Survation):
LAB - 34% (+3)
CON - 29% (+2)
UKIP - 23% (-1)
LDEM - 6% (-3)
GRN - unknown
National Opinion Poll with Alan Johnson as Labour leader (Survation):
LAB - 37% (+3)
CON - 29% (-)
Politics is nuts. He should gone a year ago.
Moved by the backing of voters polled by Survation that make him landslide PM (as in Prime Minister)
LAB 350 CON 241 (ouch) LD 30
What an extraordinary storm considering the polls don't back it up.
Going to bed. I expect EdM will still be here come February when the GE campaign actually starts. This is a lot of froth and bubble by the look of it. We all need Christmas to distract us.
Are you King Midas in reverse?
Labour may win despite their Leader. Tories may lose in spite of theirs. Both Parties cutting a poor impression. Farage prospering without doing a thing.
Wtf is it going to be like after Rochester?
As for Ed banging on about how wonderful the EU is at a time like this. Iceberg, what Iceberg?
What do you think happens next?
Still a lot of unpopular decisions to be made.
He's written a piece on the Sunday Times.
THERESA MAY, the home secretary, has been accused of making “blood-curdling” and “patently untrue” claims about the dangers posed by opting out of the European arrest warrant ahead of a crunch Commons vote.
Writing in The Sunday Times, David Davis, a former Tory backbencher, challenged May over her warnings that Britain would become a safe haven for European criminals should MPs vote against the controversial warrant tomorrow. His comments reflect the anger of Eurosceptic Tory backbenchers at the tone of a robust lobbying campaign by May and Downing Street, which is aimed at containing a backbench rebellion.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1481514.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_11_08
Are you forgetful, struggle with basic arithmetic or making up the anecdote as you go along ?
Little bit of advice - get your 'facts' straight before posting comments or you appear very, very, very thick.
Shame there's no market on it.
Also, on this talk of Cameron being a good leader, I have to disagree. I've given him a lot of slack I feel, and unlike Lab voters I don't think he's been terrible as PM, I'd be relaxed about him getting back in, moreso than if (when) Ed M gets in even, but he's been an atrocious leader of his own party since 2010. He has no control over large numbers of them, and no hope of enticing them on to his side or drawing back the voters they represent or those who have left for UKIP, and although tacking all the way to the right would not have won things for him, facing as weak an opposition as he is, he cannot win having leaked so much support to that area. Having failed to prevent a situation wherein the opposition are doing so poorly but will probably still win, and his own party are a shambles, surely speaks ill of his qualities as a leader.
We're hopeful we'll get something soon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11213086/Rochester-and-Strood-by-election-Conservative-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-and-son-take-the-fight-to-Ukip.html
Is quitting as leader the best thing Ed Miliband can do to help Labour? (Survation):
Yes - 47%
No - 19%
Is quitting as leader the best thing Ed Miliband can do to help Labour? (Survation) LAB voters only:
Yes - 36%
No - 36%
Then we have Opinium and Survation saying something different.
Left wing paper - Ed is crap and should go
Right wing paper - Dave is crap and should go
Errr..ummm.. Mmmmm.
DUEMA #SaveEd#WebackEd
Slightly different message to Ed.
I am knackered and off to bed.
I will take my chances on it being a longer term disaster for LAB, but you have to take each GE as it comes (football manager speak).
With MPs like Danczuk and Mann it may well be but I agree with Eds policies that the better off have to shoulder the burden of deficit reduction and thats what matters to me.
I honestly believe EIC will be PM but lets see what happens.