That's like claiming Neville Chamberlain won WWII. Darling very nearly screwed it up and it was the intervention by the three party leaders and Gordon Brown that swung it back.
If the YES campaign loses, will Salmond resign as first minister ? Might he decide that someone else may be better to negotiate more devolution to Scotland.
"“For as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom, for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”"
Bollocks!! But someone had to go ahead and bite! It has been incredible to see the way that the SNP have over taken Labour on the ground in Dundee. A City which was once a classic Scottish Labour heartland, but like so many had been left neglected and taken for granted by the Scottish Labour party. There is no doubt that the SNP have been desperately trying to replicate that success in Glasgow now for nearly a decade.
But the biggest lesson for the Labour party is not just the way they took their grassroots Labour support for granted in this Independence Referendum campaign until almost the end of the campaign. No, their mistakes go back far further than that, and they are the key to the fact that we are even having this divisive debate at all. For too long the Labour party has sat on its arse in Scotland having delivered Devolution, and with it what they thought would be a Labour fiefdom that would defy any political change in Government at Westminster and continue to be a thorn in the side of any future Conservative Westminster Government.
Only one problem, the Scottish Labour continued to send all its best talent to Westminster after they hit Holyrood. The SNP on the other hand, sent all their biggest talent straight back up to Scotland and that Holyrood Parliament. And the rest is history, an SNP minority Government in 2007, and then that stunning SNP majority in at the 2011 Holyrood elections which caused an earthquake in the Scottish Labour party and set the events in motion which have led to this corrosive and divisive Independence Referendum in Scotland and the rest of the UK.
Anyone trying to pin the blame on Cameron within his own party or elsewhere for the fact that it all got a bit Corporeal Jones at the end when the Labour party panicked is being disingenuous. And its interesting that some of the usual suspects that were screaming Cameron had to go if he lost Scotland are the same people now screaming he has to go because he did what he had to make sure that Scotland stayed.
And any Labour supporter on here now trying to claim victory for the Labour party because they finally woke up and got their act together, lets just remember that the Tory vote for a NO was there and solid, as was that of the remaining Libdems. It was the Labour vote up here that only ever in doubt of risking the Union because of the early lack of visibility in the campaign at all. Well done to Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander for sorting that out and getting their campaign off the ground. And well done to Gordon Brown for that rousing final speech that 'helped' an already committed Coalition team in Better Together in the final lap.
If promising the Scots the kitchen sink will keep them in the union, then I will cheerfully wrap up the kitchen sink in a big pink bow and attach the finest Swiss chocolates. We could have been looking at the destruction of the union, the loss of the UK nuclear deterrent, a crash on the pound, and the ridicule of the civilised world. Instead we got a referendum that was seamlessly democratic, a convincing (cross fingers) reaffirmation of the union, and the ability to cast utter, utter scorn on Putin when next we meet - "this is how you do democracy in the civilized world, bitch." And we didn't have to shoot down one airliner to do it.
If the YES campaign loses, will Salmond resign as first minister ? Might he decide that someone else may be better to negotiate more devolution to Scotland.
He has already stepped down once before. I think he is likely to stay on until the GE in 2015 but may well step down before the next Scottish one.
If the YES campaign loses, will Salmond resign as first minister ? Might he decide that someone else may be better to negotiate more devolution to Scotland.
He has already stepped down once before. I think he is likely to stay on until the GE in 2015 but may well step down before the next Scottish one.
I think it depends on the result. I may be wrong, but given the high expectations it was 'close', if the losing margin is significant it may be spun as a big embarrassment.
Cameron should come out of Number 10, and say "Just rejoice at that news, just rejoice!"... heh.
Dave is no Maggie T
Heh.
let's hope the Queen gets a chance to "reorganise the Union [into a federal structure] for a safe and secure society" by signing royal assent on a new act of union! :')
The only pointers for May 2015 are that Dave bested Salmond, supposedly the most loved politician these fair isles have ever produced - whilst Ed Miliband had to be hidden from view when people mocked him in a raucous way....
If I had been involved in this election I would be either drunk or collapsed asleep by now. (Far more likely to be the former, nothing like being the drunkest person at the count.)
Glasgow "bad for Labour".The working class looks to have rejected Labour.Labour neo-liberalism,cuts and job losses don't taste any different from the Tory variety and Tony Blair sad "They've got nowhere else to go".In the process Labour lost working class support and trust as the sect of cryto-Stalinist authoritarian marketisers that took control lined their own pockets. Jim Murphy has done well.Hard to see him being referred to one of the 4 horsemen of the acopocolips.
Comments
Andy B Houghton @AndyxCfc1888 1m
@thomasknox @WingsScotland who the fuck are you @thomasknox fucking bellend go and suckle on the queens saggy tit ya prick
That would explain why Eck is not appearing at the count
We've already got Boulton / Islam saying they might change the numbers they put into the Barnett formula.
Totally comical.
Sources for No say they believe they will win in 'Salmond's backyard' of Aberdeenshire.
sean thomas knox @thomasknox 9m
@WingsScotland YEAH, you could say that, YOU FUCKING SCOTTISH LOSERS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
HAH
Clackmannanshire and WL were both significantly above the average in the 1997 Scottish referendum.
"“For as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom, for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”"
Thanks. Found that whole holistic movement shtick a bit summer-of-love
Remember what I said - vote NO, get Ed!
It has been incredible to see the way that the SNP have over taken Labour on the ground in Dundee. A City which was once a classic Scottish Labour heartland, but like so many had been left neglected and taken for granted by the Scottish Labour party. There is no doubt that the SNP have been desperately trying to replicate that success in Glasgow now for nearly a decade.
But the biggest lesson for the Labour party is not just the way they took their grassroots Labour support for granted in this Independence Referendum campaign until almost the end of the campaign. No, their mistakes go back far further than that, and they are the key to the fact that we are even having this divisive debate at all. For too long the Labour party has sat on its arse in Scotland having delivered Devolution, and with it what they thought would be a Labour fiefdom that would defy any political change in Government at Westminster and continue to be a thorn in the side of any future Conservative Westminster Government.
Only one problem, the Scottish Labour continued to send all its best talent to Westminster after they hit Holyrood. The SNP on the other hand, sent all their biggest talent straight back up to Scotland and that Holyrood Parliament. And the rest is history, an SNP minority Government in 2007, and then that stunning SNP majority in at the 2011 Holyrood elections which caused an earthquake in the Scottish Labour party and set the events in motion which have led to this corrosive and divisive Independence Referendum in Scotland and the rest of the UK.
Anyone trying to pin the blame on Cameron within his own party or elsewhere for the fact that it all got a bit Corporeal Jones at the end when the Labour party panicked is being disingenuous. And its interesting that some of the usual suspects that were screaming Cameron had to go if he lost Scotland are the same people now screaming he has to go because he did what he had to make sure that Scotland stayed.
And any Labour supporter on here now trying to claim victory for the Labour party because they finally woke up and got their act together, lets just remember that the Tory vote for a NO was there and solid, as was that of the remaining Libdems. It was the Labour vote up here that only ever in doubt of risking the Union because of the early lack of visibility in the campaign at all. Well done to Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander for sorting that out and getting their campaign off the ground. And well done to Gordon Brown for that rousing final speech that 'helped' an already committed Coalition team in Better Together in the final lap.
@rhys199: People of Clackmanashire should be ashamed of themselves, turning down the opportunity for independence you're shitebags not scots #indyref
Undereffort, underachieving: utterly lethal
If promising the Scots the kitchen sink will keep them in the union, then I will cheerfully wrap up the kitchen sink in a big pink bow and attach the finest Swiss chocolates. We could have been looking at the destruction of the union, the loss of the UK nuclear deterrent, a crash on the pound, and the ridicule of the civilised world. Instead we got a referendum that was seamlessly democratic, a convincing (cross fingers) reaffirmation of the union, and the ability to cast utter, utter scorn on Putin when next we meet - "this is how you do democracy in the civilized world, bitch." And we didn't have to shoot down one airliner to do it.
Sober?
now we should only discover which council Rhondda leads...oh, it's East Dunbartonshire
Glad I had a nap earlier.
I think Brown did not get involved until later, because Cameron did not want him to. They hate each other.
Only an out of touch, Tory BritNat, fop would think it is a bad result for Yes.
West Lothian 47% yes - not good enough for Yes.
A better guide than (non-existent) exit polls?
let's hope the Queen gets a chance to "reorganise the Union [into a federal structure] for a safe and secure society" by signing royal assent on a new act of union! :')
Another theory banjaxed.
Yep. UKR did it. So now no one cares.
Jim Murphy has done well.Hard to see him being referred to one of the 4 horsemen of the acopocolips.