I was wondering that myself. On the one hand, he has absolutely zero humility. On the other, he could easily have been persuaded that he is God's instrument doing righteous work, and that God directly intervened to save him in the assassination attempt.
He never has been religious before and I don't think he is now, in the sense of organised religion (which involves open submission), but maybe he does now Believe, in his own way.
I was wondering that myself. On the one hand, he has absolutely zero humility. On the other, he could easily have been persuaded that he is God's instrument doing righteous work, and that God directly intervened to save him in the assassination attempt.
He never has been religious before and I don't think he is now, in the sense of organised religion (which involves open submission), but maybe he does now Believe, in his own way.
He was Presbyterian and attended Sunday School as a child and attended a Reformed Church in Manhattan occasionally and the Lakeside Presbyterian Church in Palm Beach
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
The most likely answer is that he'd have said "ok, if any of you are perfect, you throw the first stone", and left it at that.
A principle that would save us all a lot of trouble.
Which is a clever way of upholding the letter of a harsh law, whilst subverting it.
Sure, you can stone an adulterous woman, but first be sure that you are sinless.
Bit subtler than that, I reckon. After all, Jesus was perfect enough to throw a stone, and he didn't either.
But yes- clever, wise. The curious thing about people who put effort into holiness, who makes it their life's work, is how much they judge themselves and not others.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
He might.
Then again, His views on both divorce and adultery were more hardline than the norm of His time and place (and more hardline than contemporary norms). He would have no tolerance for the modern view that if you fall for someone other than your spouse, it’s in everyone’s interest to end your marriage and pursue personal happiness.
That's a different point though - and indeed one that would tend to reinforce the case for same-sex marriages, to provide a life-long framework for those relationships.
Did I miss something but it looked to me in the silicon tech-bros seats Microsoft were not to be seen?
Who were you looking for? Bill Gates hasn't been Microsoft for decades. Satya Nadella is Microsoft CEO. Mr Google is ambiguous about whether he attended and I'm not sure he did.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
That's a very interesting question to ask about the (almost) only institution that has survived intact from the earliest days of the Roman empire, continues to engage some of the brightest brains on the planet and is the world's largest identifiable organisation in respect of personal adherence, and is currently larger than any time in history and which, in our day, is nowhere compulsory.
And also as to your question, I need it, along with a couple of billion others.
Why do you need it? I'm genuinely curious.
All the answers are too long, but in short I think it really reflects truths as well as we know how; it's a fabulous overarching metanarrative with huge explanatory power, it operates at every level from illiterate peasant to St Thomas Aquinas, it grounds the idea of morality being not just made up, it has capacity to develop, it is realistic about the human condition, it is, in its modern forms, immensely tolerant, and it is profoundly humanist.
Try a book. The astonishing and eye opening Unapologetic by Francis Spufford.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
Adultery is also legal in the UK as is blasphemy, doesn't mean the C of E should hold services of blessing and celebration for adulterers and take the Lord's name regularly in vain!
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
As far as I’m concerned, don’t like/vote with your feet.
I left the C of E 20 years ago, because of it’s political stance.
Isn't Christianity at heart basically slave morality? Being on the side of the poor would seem automatic.
Did I miss something but it looked to me in the silicon tech-bros seats Microsoft were not to be seen?
Who were you looking for? Bill Gates hasn't been Microsoft for decades. Satya Nadella is Microsoft CEO. Mr Google is ambiguous about whether he attended and I'm not sure he did.
I was looking for Nadella.
Google's Sundar Pichai was in every other TV shot I saw of the seated guests. Totally there.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
Adultery is also legal in the UK as is blasphemy, doesn't mean the C of E should hold services of blessing and celebration for adulterers and take the Lord's name regularly in vain!
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
As far as I’m concerned, don’t like/vote with your feet.
I left the C of E 20 years ago, because of it’s political stance.
Isn't Christianity at heart basically slave morality? Being on the side of the poor would seem automatic.
If you take the Bible literally Christianity is on a forced choice socially conservative but economically left of centre. Jimmy Carter for instance who largely did was on the right of the Democrats on issues like abortion and sexuality as President but still pro government intervention to help the poor and as an ex President big on charity work.
Jews tend to be more rightwing economically than Christians and Muslims though as they just look at the Old Testament
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
If Christ "was more than happy to chart his own course", don't you think he would have said something about homosexuality as it was hardly unknown in the Roman Empire. He broke with the Old Covenant in other respects, the fact He didn't on this matter is telling.
Did I miss something but it looked to me in the silicon tech-bros seats Microsoft were not to be seen?
Yes Apple, Tesla, X, SpaceX, Meta, Google and Amazon executives were there but not Microsoft
Musk looked very sinister and unhappy. His mouth was turned down while everyone else was smiling.
He went a bit mental when Trump told him that America would plant a flag on Mars.
It has cost Elon several dozen million and counting but he got what he paid for.
Maybe Microsoft are too cool for all this shit? Or maybe they are not really The Valley but Washington State which is a bit removed from all this bollocks???
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
Adultery is also legal in the UK as is blasphemy, doesn't mean the C of E should hold services of blessing and celebration for adulterers and take the Lord's name regularly in vain!
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
As far as I’m concerned, don’t like/vote with your feet.
I left the C of E 20 years ago, because of it’s political stance.
Isn't Christianity at heart basically slave morality? Being on the side of the poor would seem automatic.
Yes. It's one of the many things Nietzsche hated about it. He hated its humility, humbleness, its general Untrumpianness, it's concern for the weak and the marginalised.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
That's a very interesting question to ask about the (almost) only institution that has survived intact from the earliest days of the Roman empire, continues to engage some of the brightest brains on the planet and is the world's largest identifiable organisation in respect of personal adherence, and is currently larger than any time in history and which, in our day, is nowhere compulsory.
And also as to your question, I need it, along with a couple of billion others.
Why do you need it? I'm genuinely curious.
All the answers are too long, but in short I think it really reflects truths as well as we know how; it's a fabulous overarching metanarrative with huge explanatory power, it operates at every level from illiterate peasant to St Thomas Aquinas, it grounds the idea of morality being not just made up, it has capacity to develop, it is realistic about the human condition, it is, in its modern forms, immensely tolerant, and it is profoundly humanist.
Try a book. The astonishing and eye opening Unapologetic by Francis Spufford.
But the Christian story has some weird things in it. The immaculate conception by an angel. The Trinity. Transubstantiation. Not to mention the problem of evil.
Reeves growth speech to support third runway at Heathrow and Gatwick expansion as well as lower Thames crossing and universal studios in drive for growth.
👍
Something for the North please Rachel but a good start there.
IIRC the third runway would involve exceeding NO2 limits and other air pollution in parts of West London, closest to the airport.
Not sure how they are going to square that circle.
It’s not in that tweet but in the thread. Sustainable Aviation Fuel Mandate is what they are saying will mitigate.
Anyway, this is a good start for Reeves but let’s have something for the North .
That’ll be an interesting promise.
NO2 is literally oxidised nitrogen from the air. If you heat it up enough, air partially burns. Modern jet engines are getting hotter - it’s how they increase fuel efficiency.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
It's hardly liberal compared to mainstream European protestant churches
Most of Europe is Roman Catholic or Orthodox which are certainly more conservative than the C of E, even if Lutherans and Methodists and Church of Scotland (but not Free Church of Scotland) are more liberal even than C of E.
Fastest growing Protestant churches globally though are Pentecostal, Independent Evangelical and to a lesser extent Baptist all of which are more conservative than the C of E too
Did you not read the words "European" and "protestant"? Does the CofE really want to liken itself to the Russian Orthodox Church? You are even worse than I thought.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
It's hardly liberal compared to mainstream European protestant churches
Most of Europe is Roman Catholic or Orthodox which are certainly more conservative than the C of E, even if Lutherans and Methodists and Church of Scotland (but not Free Church of Scotland) are more liberal even than C of E.
Fastest growing Protestant churches globally though are Pentecostal, Independent Evangelical and to a lesser extent Baptist all of which are more conservative than the C of E too
Did you not read the words "European" and "protestant"? Does the CofE really want to liken itself to the Russian Orthodox Church? You are even worse than I thought.
European Protestants are a small minority of Christians in continental Europe, there are more Orthodox Christians in continental Europe than Protestants and of course the Greek and Ukranian Orthodox churches do not perform same sex marriages anymore than the Russian Orthodox church does. Most European Christians are Catholic and the Vatican also does not allow same sex marriages.
Globally there are more Pentecostals than any other group or denomination of Protestants and Pentecostals certainly do not perform same sex marriages
Comments
He never has been religious before and I don't think he is now, in the sense of organised religion (which involves open submission), but maybe he does now Believe, in his own way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_affiliations_of_presidents_of_the_United_States
But yes- clever, wise. The curious thing about people who put effort into holiness, who makes it their life's work, is how much they judge themselves and not others.
Quite disturbing to be around, actually.
Try a book. The astonishing and eye opening Unapologetic by Francis Spufford.
Eric Daugherty
@EricLDaugh
BREAKING: Portrait of retired Gen. Mark Milley removed from the Pentagon - @OrenCNN
https://x.com/EricLDaugh/status/1881425078728208683
Google's Sundar Pichai was in every other TV shot I saw of the seated guests. Totally there.
Jews tend to be more rightwing economically than Christians and Muslims though as they just look at the Old Testament
It has cost Elon several dozen million and counting but he got what he paid for.
Maybe Microsoft are too cool for all this shit? Or maybe they are not really The Valley but Washington State which is a bit removed from all this bollocks???
NEW THREAD
Try "The non-existence of God" by Nicholas Everitt.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Non-existence-God-Nicholas-Everitt/dp/0415301076
NO2 is literally oxidised nitrogen from the air. If you heat it up enough, air partially burns. Modern jet engines are getting hotter - it’s how they increase fuel efficiency.
Globally there are more Pentecostals than any other group or denomination of Protestants and Pentecostals certainly do not perform same sex marriages
Hot potato, coconut stalls, Puck will make amends!