For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
It's hard to see what the CoE might stand for if they abandon all these areas. Obey the laws of the land, and be nice. Wouldn't be so bad, but is it in any way the wish of the Divine the Almighty Trump, er sorry God?
They can't even fall back on some sort of glee type American church thing - there's nothing worse than CoE glee (If there is a devil it's clearly his work).
So far as I can see they have to stick to their main role of hiding the crimes of people that the bishops like. Mostly about baking competition cheating, but they have the capacity to embrace all major and minor crimes.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
Yes, that's spot on. It's One Nation Conservatism that is the main casualty of the culture war.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
I think it may be too late for the Conservatives, actually.
Cameron, May and Johnson, in particular, shat the bed by failing to deliver on core issues - all were, to some degree, fans of a socially liberal consensus.
Strangely, I don't extend that to Rishi - who I think history will be kinder towards- who was I think trying to do so, his only failing being his reluctance to fund defence.
I've started watching that Jimmy Saville drama with Steve Coogan on iPlayer.
A very very difficult watch. Chills the blood.
Coogan does a good job too, especially as the older Saville and given Coogans background it would be so easy for him to just do an impression of Saville rather than play him.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
I think it may be too late for the Conservatives, actually.
Cameron, May and Johnson, in particular, shat the bed by failing to deliver on core issues - all were, to some degree, fans of a socially liberal consensus.
Strangely, I don't extend that to Rishi - who I think history will be kinder towards- who was I think trying to do so, his only failing being his reluctance to fund defence.
Brexit destroyed the Tories in the UK, as it ruptured their core offer of pro-business, fiscal sobriety.
Sunak was an absolute lightweight, whose only merit was not being insane like his predecessor.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
It's hard to see what the CoE might stand for if they abandon all these areas. Obey the laws of the land, and be nice. Wouldn't be so bad, but is it in any way the wish of the Divine the Almighty Trump, er sorry God?
They can't even fall back on some sort of glee type American church thing - there's nothing worse than CoE glee (If there is a devil it's clearly his work).
So far as I can see they have to stick to their main role of hiding the crimes of people that the bishops like. Mostly about baking competition cheating, but they have the capacity to embrace all major and minor crimes.
The C of E hierarchy is more hard left than liberal.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
You really don't understand the UK right, do you? "Besotted"???
Nigel, Suella and Liz been expelled from the UK right have they?
Three people are the whole of the UK right, are they?
They have their followers. I believe a couple of them even managed to get elected.
Shadow foreign secretary Priti Patel was on TV last night arguing that the Tories have a far closer relationship and far greater agreement with the Trump-controlled Republicans than Reform. In the Daily Express she described Trump as an ally!
He's the President of the USA. If you expect the British state to treat him like the leader of Nazi Germany you will be very disappointed.
I would be horrified if the British state did that. I am entirely unsurprised that Reform and the Conservative party are so keen on him.
The Conservative party isn't "so keen" on him, stop lying
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
To an extent but next month we will likely see the victory of centre right CDU in Germany NOT the hard right AfD leading to another grand coalition with the SPD, even if Merz is a more rightwing CDU leader than Merkel.
Here too the Tories still lead Reform, certainly on seats, in most polls and even Trump won by taking over the established centre right party not via a new hard right party. The only really hard right leader in a western nation at the moment other than Trump is Meloni in Italy though even she is more establishment on things like support for NATO
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
I think it may be too late for the Conservatives, actually.
Cameron, May and Johnson, in particular, shat the bed by failing to deliver on core issues - all were, to some degree, fans of a socially liberal consensus.
Strangely, I don't extend that to Rishi - who I think history will be kinder towards- who was I think trying to do so, his only failing being his reluctance to fund defence.
Cameron, May and Johnson all won elections (albeit May went backwards in winning). Sunak didn't, and indeed suffered an eye-watering defeat.
Sunak won't, of course, receive all the blame for defeat by any means. But, at best, history will record him as an unsuccessful, inconsequential PM at the fag end of a long period of Conservatives in office.
Labour suddenly running scared on all these issues. Their time in office is clearly going to be dominated by their increasingly abject retreat in the culture wars, when they’re not apologising for a stagnant economy. Plus grovelling to Trump. That’s it. That’s the Labour government 2024-28
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Even on those numbers, embracing anti-Trumpism could push a sizeable number of Labour, Lib Dem and Conservative voters to Reform.
Works both ways surely: Reform embracing Trump could push a sizeable number of their voters towards other parties.
(Also: is one-in-twenty a sizeable number?)
When the prevailing position is, as far as we can tell, a three way tie then yeah, 1% or 2% is a sizeable number.
Looks like Labour have a formula. Slap an inquiry on it. The Edinburgh Tram inquiry called for an inquiry into why the inquiry took so long, so have we meta-inquiries to look forward to as well.
This particular inquiry is designed to pin Southport on the Conservatives, given prior referrals to Prevent.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Even on those numbers, embracing anti-Trumpism could push a sizeable number of Labour, Lib Dem and Conservative voters to Reform.
That's even more interesting maths. The total proportion of voters who are "very happy" that Trump won is 11% - half Reform's current polling (total happy is 20%).
Coming out against Trump bags you 57% (45% very unhappy). If you're a Tory and want to win some votes back from Labour and Lib Dem voters, you don't have a choice really.
The Tories aren't going to win back voters from Labour and the LDs because there are virtually no 2019 Conservative voters backing Labour now and the few 2019 Tories backing the LDs are mainly hardline anti Brexiteers who only voted Tory in 2019 to keep out Corbyn.
Reform have still taken by far the lion's share of 2024 Tory voters but appealing to much to them over Trump support risks leaking some current Tory voters, especially to the LDs
Clinton, Dubya and Trump are all very similar ages. And Biden isn't that much older (and was - of course - younger than Trump is now when he became President.)
It would be very surprising if Trump did not encounter some significant ageing related challenges in the next four years.
I've started watching that Jimmy Saville drama with Steve Coogan on iPlayer.
A very very difficult watch. Chills the blood.
Coogan does a good job too, especially as the older Saville and given Coogans background it would be so easy for him to just do an impression of Saville rather than play him.
Coogan's latest outing is as Brian Walden interviewing Mrs Thatcher in Channel 4's Brian and Maggie, due to be broadcast next week.
Clinton, Dubya and Trump are all very similar ages. And Biden isn't that much older (and was - of course - younger than Trump is now when he became President.)
It would be very surprising if Trump did not encounter some significant ageing related challenges in the next four years.
What would be more surprising is if we could tell the difference.
Looks like Labour have a formula. Slap an inquiry on it. The Edinburgh Tram inquiry called for an inquiry into why the inquiry took so long, so have we meta-inquiries to look forward to as well.
This particular inquiry is designed to pin Southport on the Conservatives, given prior referrals to Prevent.
I expect it to be another example of total failure of those who were responsible, much like the Post Office
Clinton, Dubya and Trump are all very similar ages. And Biden isn't that much older (and was - of course - younger than Trump is now when he became President.)
It would be very surprising if Trump did not encounter some significant ageing related challenges in the next four years.
He’s already only occasionally coherent, and is widely thought to wear incontinence nappies, so yes it would be surprising.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
It's hard to see what the CoE might stand for if they abandon all these areas. Obey the laws of the land, and be nice. Wouldn't be so bad, but is it in any way the wish of the Divine the Almighty Trump, er sorry God?
They can't even fall back on some sort of glee type American church thing - there's nothing worse than CoE glee (If there is a devil it's clearly his work).
So far as I can see they have to stick to their main role of hiding the crimes of people that the bishops like. Mostly about baking competition cheating, but they have the capacity to embrace all major and minor crimes.
The C of E hierarchy is more hard left than liberal.
No it isn't, there was little enthusiasm for Corbyn amongst the Bishops, they are more Starmer Labour or LD
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
I don't care for Trumpism or anything much in current USA politics politics, but I think as a matter of fact the Reform volk happy about Trump are ahead of the curve. I predict that general happiness with Trump among the public in the western world will grow for the next couple of years at least.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
He's long shown he couldn't care less about Christ.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
Where did Christ ever mention support for same sex marriage?
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
Where did Christ ever mention support for same sex marriage?
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
This might be news to you, but Paul != Christ.
Christ speaks against divorce, he does not speak against same sex relationships.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
I don't care for Trumpism or anything much in current USA politics politics, but I think as a matter of fact the Reform volk happy about Trump are ahead of the curve. I predict that general happiness with Trump among the public in the western world will grow for the next couple of years at least.
I suspect it's nothing to do with the left-right axis (which, as we know, Reform voters don't comfortably sit).
I suspect the happiness is a reflection of "this guy is different from the consensus just like Nige is" and it matters much less exactly how he so differs.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
Where did Christ ever mention support for same sex marriage?
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
Where did Christ ever mention support for same sex marriage?
To be fair, there’s a lot of things Christ didn’t pronounce on. For example, whether darts is a “sport” or a “game”.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
This might be news to you, but Paul != Christ.
Christ speaks against divorce, he does not speak against same sex relationships.
This might be news to you but the writings of St Paul are also part of the Bible as is the Old Testament.
Jesus speaks against divorce but does allow it for spousal adultery. Some C of E Vicars still won't marry divorcees except for that circumstance and even the King could only marry Camilla at Windsor Guildhall in a civil ceremony and only got a blessing at St George's Chapel Windsor
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
Let's face it, when the government launches an inquiry it's usually to distract from something else.
The whole thing reeks
The mistakes would have been made under the previous government so not something that Starmer can be held accountable for. Most of the controversy has surrounded the government and polices' statements since the crime.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
Where did Christ ever mention support for same sex marriage?
To be fair, there’s a lot of things Christ didn’t pronounce on. For example, whether darts is a “sport” or a “game”.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
Where did Christ ever mention support for same sex marriage?
To be fair, there’s a lot of things Christ didn’t pronounce on. For example, whether darts is a “sport” or a “game”.
I've started watching that Jimmy Saville drama with Steve Coogan on iPlayer.
A very very difficult watch. Chills the blood.
Coogan does a good job too, especially as the older Saville and given Coogans background it would be so easy for him to just do an impression of Saville rather than play him.
Coogan's latest outing is as Brian Walden interviewing Mrs Thatcher in Channel 4's Brian and Maggie, due to be broadcast next week.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
Adultery is also legal in the UK as is blasphemy, doesn't mean the C of E should hold services of blessing and celebration for adulterers and take the Lord's name regularly in vain!
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
Adultery is also legal in the UK as is blasphemy, doesn't mean the C of E should hold services of blessing and celebration for adulterers and take the Lord's name regularly in vain!
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
The Registry Office is very much established by the English state!
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
You really are showing your prejudices contrary to Christ's teachings
Where did Christ ever mention support for same sex marriage?
To be fair, there’s a lot of things Christ didn’t pronounce on. For example, whether darts is a “sport” or a “game”.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
"and a woman and a woman" (as Mitt Romney quipped)
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Hang on: where are the words for man and woman defined?
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
I think it may be too late for the Conservatives, actually.
Cameron, May and Johnson, in particular, shat the bed by failing to deliver on core issues - all were, to some degree, fans of a socially liberal consensus.
Strangely, I don't extend that to Rishi - who I think history will be kinder towards- who was I think trying to do so, his only failing being his reluctance to fund defence.
Brexit destroyed the Tories in the UK, as it ruptured their core offer of pro-business, fiscal sobriety.
Sunak was an absolute lightweight, whose only merit was not being insane like his predecessor.
Nah, it wasn't about Brexit.
To the extent it was that was on the right side of the Conservatives political fortunes.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
That's a very interesting question to ask about the (almost) only institution that has survived intact from the earliest days of the Roman empire, continues to engage some of the brightest brains on the planet and is the world's largest identifiable organisation in respect of personal adherence, and is currently larger than any time in history and which, in our day, is nowhere compulsory.
And also as to your question, I need it, along with a couple of billion others.
Reeves growth speech to support third runway at Heathrow and Gatwick expansion as well as lower Thames crossing and universal studios in drive for growth.
👍
Something for the North please Rachel but a good start there.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
I think it may be too late for the Conservatives, actually.
Cameron, May and Johnson, in particular, shat the bed by failing to deliver on core issues - all were, to some degree, fans of a socially liberal consensus.
Strangely, I don't extend that to Rishi - who I think history will be kinder towards- who was I think trying to do so, his only failing being his reluctance to fund defence.
Brexit destroyed the Tories in the UK, as it ruptured their core offer of pro-business, fiscal sobriety.
No, that was Johnson's embrace of soft socialism and financial incontinence, and then Liz Truss's truly extraordinary performance in office. Brexit was one of the few undoubtedly popular things he did, at least judging by the 2019 election result.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
Reeves growth speech to support third runway at Heathrow and Gatwick expansion as well as lower Thames crossing and universal studios in drive for growth.
👍
Something for the North please Rachel but a good start there.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
I think it may be too late for the Conservatives, actually.
Cameron, May and Johnson, in particular, shat the bed by failing to deliver on core issues - all were, to some degree, fans of a socially liberal consensus.
Strangely, I don't extend that to Rishi - who I think history will be kinder towards- who was I think trying to do so, his only failing being his reluctance to fund defence.
Brexit destroyed the Tories in the UK, as it ruptured their core offer of pro-business, fiscal sobriety.
No, that was Johnson's embrace of soft socialism and financial incontinence, and then Liz Truss's truly extraordinary performance in office. Brexit was one of the few undoubtedly popular things he did, at least judging by the 2019 election result.
I'm not sure the 2019 election result had much to do with the popularity (or not) of Brexit. I am sure, however, that the desire to implement the 2016 referendum result and "Get Brexit Done" had a lot to do with it.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
He might.
Then again, His views on both divorce and adultery were more hardline than the norm of His time and place (and more hardline than contemporary norms). He would have no tolerance for the modern view that if you fall for someone other than your spouse, it’s in everyone’s interest to end your marriage and pursue personal happiness.
Uses of AI. I asked ChatGPT for some cocktail recipes based on some random stuff I have in my cabinet. It suggested this
"Sloe-Groni Twist"
A fruity, spiced riff on the classic Negroni.
Ingredients:
25ml gin
25ml sloe gin
20ml Becherovka Original (to provide herbal bitterness)
10ml apricot brandy (to add sweetness and balance)
Star anise (garnish)
Plummy and herby, a bit sweet for me though and doesn't quite have the complexity of a true Negroni. Quite drinkable though, and helps me to shift that bottle of Becherovka I foolishly brought back from that trip to Prague
Reeves growth speech to support third runway at Heathrow and Gatwick expansion as well as lower Thames crossing and universal studios in drive for growth.
👍
Something for the North please Rachel but a good start there.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
So, you're saying that the Westboro Baptist Church wouldn't be too keen on Jesus Christ?
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
He does not refer at all to same sex marriage
It is just your prejudices that try to imply He did when He didn't
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
The most likely answer is that he'd have said "ok, if any of you are perfect, you throw the first stone", and left it at that.
A principle that would save us all a lot of trouble.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
That's a very interesting question to ask about the (almost) only institution that has survived intact from the earliest days of the Roman empire, continues to engage some of the brightest brains on the planet and is the world's largest identifiable organisation in respect of personal adherence, and is currently larger than any time in history and which, in our day, is nowhere compulsory.
And also as to your question, I need it, along with a couple of billion others.
Indeed, globally, certainly in terms of people as a percentage it is the western secular world in decline far more than Christianity is
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
Blatant disregard for Leviticus would disqualify him as the Christ. If you have read the gospels, you will know a lot of what he did was done to fulfill prophecy around the coming of Christ; there is no way he could do what you are suggesting; the most he could do was probably a "let him without sin" argument if so inclined.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
Adultery is also legal in the UK as is blasphemy, doesn't mean the C of E should hold services of blessing and celebration for adulterers and take the Lord's name regularly in vain!
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
As far as I’m concerned, don’t like/vote with your feet.
I left the C of E 20 years ago, because of it’s political stance.
Trump pulling no punches. Guardian and BBC crapping their pants.
The left will be having a collective breakdown, all because they didn't take Biden out of the running years ago
I expected a change but this is far more than anything anyone could have imagined and as I said earlier, the world order has changed on today, 20th January 2025
Well, Trump's your man Mr G. The UK right - Tory and Reform - has thrown its hat in with him. And you'll be spending the next four years blaming everyone but them for doing it.
It sounds like that you really want is for us to be part of America so that you can join with your Democratic brethren in fighting the good fight against him. You don't see him as the leader of a foreign country but as a political opponent.
No, I see him as a US President with whom the UK right is utterly besotted. And that will have significant implications for UK politics.
It's one of things that distinguishes Reform voters from all other voters, and why adding Tory + Reform is wrong. On culture war stuff, the current crop of Conservative voters are far closer to Labour.
"Very happy about Trump election victory"
Labour 5% Lib Dem 5% Conservative 10%
Reform 38%
Yep - Tory voters are far more circumspect. That's why it's such a surprise to see Tory MPs and shadow ministers so effusive and keen. Too much time online and reading the right wing press, I guess.
That's the other distinguishing factor - the "very online" are far more likely to be Reform voters, and that's why PB/Facebook/Reform are dominated by that particular version of right-of-centre voters.
They are in a sub-bubble, where they know they don't represent everyone but do think they represent everyone on the right.
It's where @Leon has a bit of a point, though not the one he thinks.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
I think it may be too late for the Conservatives, actually.
Cameron, May and Johnson, in particular, shat the bed by failing to deliver on core issues - all were, to some degree, fans of a socially liberal consensus.
Strangely, I don't extend that to Rishi - who I think history will be kinder towards- who was I think trying to do so, his only failing being his reluctance to fund defence.
Brexit destroyed the Tories in the UK, as it ruptured their core offer of pro-business, fiscal sobriety.
Sunak was an absolute lightweight, whose only merit was not being insane like his predecessor.
Nah, it wasn't about Brexit.
To the extent it was that was on the right side of the Conservatives political fortunes.
Indeed, Boris won a bigger majority than Cameron ever did on an emphatically pro Brexit agenda even after he allegedly said 'fuck business.'
The problem is under FPTP the pro Brexit right is now divided between hard Brexit Reform and soft Brexit Tories, combined most polls have them well ahead of Labour and the LDs and over 40%
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
Adultery is also legal in the UK as is blasphemy, doesn't mean the C of E should hold services of blessing and celebration for adulterers and take the Lord's name regularly in vain!
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
The Registry Office is very much established by the English state!
You really have got into a mess ...
No, Registry Offices are run by local authorities and part of the Home Office technically
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
Actually the fastest growing churches in the UK are Pentecostal and Orthodox, both of which oppose same sex marriage and refuse to do even prayers for same sex couples like the C of E now does, though they are of course coming from a lower base.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you want to follow the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ, you wouldn't give a shit about homosexuality which Christ never f***ing mentions, ever!
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Paul forbids same sex sexual relationships as does much of the Old Testament, Christ made clear marriage is a lifelong union between a man and a woman
You haven't answered the question
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
'He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together” ie marriage only between one man and one woman for life
Christ's teaching is above all about peace, tolerance and love for strangers, particularly outsiders. If he were alive today, there can be no doubt about where he would stand on homosexuality, and it wouldn't be reciting 2000-year old texts as dogma. Indeed, Christ was more than happy to chart his own course free of scripture as he felt necessary. Now, you might argue that the Son of God has that right, what with gods outranking mortals. Nonetheless, the point stands.
The most likely answer is that he'd have said "ok, if any of you are perfect, you throw the first stone", and left it at that.
A principle that would save us all a lot of trouble.
Which is a clever way of upholding the letter of a harsh law, whilst subverting it.
Sure, you can stone an adulterous woman, but first be sure that you are sinless.
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
Doesn't that simply make it worse? Much worse.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
You may not like them but conservative evangelical churches often have big congregations and lots of money and therefore have the votes at Synod to reflect that and block full same sex marriage which needs a 2/3 vote
You're the one who is in the C of E, not me. You're the one who needs to explain why it is so out of step with the spirit and letter of the law as it applies to everyone else in England.
Adultery is also legal in the UK as is blasphemy, doesn't mean the C of E should hold services of blessing and celebration for adulterers and take the Lord's name regularly in vain!
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
As far as I’m concerned, don’t like/vote with your feet.
I left the C of E 20 years ago, because of it’s political stance.
On social issues the C of E is more rightwing than even the Tory Party now on some things, albeit not immigration and there are plenty of conservative evangelical churches still in the C of E which are small state economically too and believe in the food banks they provide and helping people get jobs not rely on welfare
For a secular nation they don't have toady to God. Seems all very foreign.
Secular nation? There might be separation of church and state in theory, but they're way more religious than us in reality.
Regular church attendance in the US has declined from 42% in 2003 to 30% in 2023.
And it's about 5% here, so the point stands.
Church of England regular attendance is 1%.
Might want to change its name to something like Church of Old, Habit-Driven, Traditionalist England With Nothing Better To Do On A Sunday.
Mocking the CoE is a silly thing to do because any replacement will be more extreme because the CoE is such a liberal church.
So liberal that they refuse to hold same sex weddings in their churches.
Though same sex couples can now get prayers for them in services and conservative evangelicals opposed even that
No wonder churches are declining with such a patronising attitude
Who needs the church anyway
That's a very interesting question to ask about the (almost) only institution that has survived intact from the earliest days of the Roman empire, continues to engage some of the brightest brains on the planet and is the world's largest identifiable organisation in respect of personal adherence, and is currently larger than any time in history and which, in our day, is nowhere compulsory.
And also as to your question, I need it, along with a couple of billion others.
Comments
A very very difficult watch. Chills the blood.
They can't even fall back on some sort of glee type American church thing - there's nothing worse than CoE glee (If there is a devil it's clearly his work).
So far as I can see they have to stick to their main role of hiding the crimes of people that the bishops like. Mostly about baking competition cheating, but they have the capacity to embrace all major and minor crimes.
https://bsky.app/profile/waterblusky.bsky.social/post/3lg6vk7ktkc2j
He didn't want to risk a thunderbolt from heaven I expect.
The last couple of decades have seen the utter routing of the wet, centre-right. The political right is much more right-wing than it used to be, much more bombastic. And unlike the left-right swing of the pendulum, this feels more complete.
Whether voters have caught up with that, and what happens when they do... That's still in the future.
https://x.com/patriottakes/status/1881366411068788929
Cameron, May and Johnson, in particular, shat the bed by failing to deliver on core issues - all were, to some degree, fans of a socially liberal consensus.
Strangely, I don't extend that to Rishi - who I think history will be kinder towards- who was I think trying to do so, his only failing being his reluctance to fund defence.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-families-need-answers-home-secretary-announces-public-inquiry-into-southport-stabbings-13293130
Sunak was an absolute lightweight, whose only merit was not being insane like his predecessor.
Here too the Tories still lead Reform, certainly on seats, in most polls and even Trump won by taking over the established centre right party not via a new hard right party. The only really hard right leader in a western nation at the moment other than Trump is Meloni in Italy though even she is more establishment on things like support for NATO
Sunak won't, of course, receive all the blame for defeat by any means. But, at best, history will record him as an unsuccessful, inconsequential PM at the fag end of a long period of Conservatives in office.
This particular inquiry is designed to pin Southport on the Conservatives, given prior referrals to Prevent.
"We've really, really thought about it but because we're so frightened of the anti-gay lot we're really making you second class."
The New European has published an article (or at least a headline) that isn't complete bollocks.
Reform have still taken by far the lion's share of 2024 Tory voters but appealing to much to them over Trump support risks leaking some current Tory voters, especially to the LDs
Who needs the church anyway
It would be very surprising if Trump did not encounter some significant ageing related challenges in the next four years.
Churches which do perform same sex marriages like the Methodists, US and Scottish Anglican churches, Church of Scotland and Quakers and Reformed churches and some Lutheran churches are generally in even greater decline than the C of E. For the reason that if you go to church regularly you generally want to follow the Bible, not just get an echo of the socially liberal and relatively materialistic culture in the west now you can get anywhere
If you are obsessed with hating gays then you don't give a damn about Christ and are cherrypicking what suits your own agenda and labelling it as religion. Don't blame the Bible.
Christ speaks against divorce, he does not speak against same sex relationships.
I suspect the happiness is a reflection of "this guy is different from the consensus just like Nige is" and it matters much less exactly how he so differs.
Jesus speaks against divorce but does allow it for spousal adultery. Some C of E Vicars still won't marry divorcees except for that circumstance and even the King could only marry Camilla at Windsor Guildhall in a civil ceremony and only got a blessing at St George's Chapel Windsor
Where did Christ condemn it - maybe a quote of Christ's from the bible if you can find it
https://x.com/wtfisavio/status/1879300581459935684
It is established Christian church, not established Registry Office
You really have got into a mess ...
To the extent it was that was on the right side of the Conservatives political fortunes.
And also as to your question, I need it, along with a couple of billion others.
👍
Something for the North please Rachel but a good start there.
https://x.com/pronouncedalva/status/1881411600034500962?s=61
Not sure how they are going to square that circle.
I am sure, however, that the desire to implement the 2016 referendum result and "Get Brexit Done" had a lot to do with it.
Then again, His views on both divorce and adultery were more hardline than the norm of His time and place (and more hardline than contemporary norms). He would have no tolerance for the modern view that if you fall for someone other than your spouse, it’s in everyone’s interest to end your marriage and pursue personal happiness.
"Sloe-Groni Twist"
A fruity, spiced riff on the classic Negroni.
Ingredients:
25ml gin
25ml sloe gin
20ml Becherovka Original (to provide herbal bitterness)
10ml apricot brandy (to add sweetness and balance)
Star anise (garnish)
Plummy and herby, a bit sweet for me though and doesn't quite have the complexity of a true Negroni. Quite drinkable though, and helps me to shift that bottle of Becherovka I foolishly brought back from that trip to Prague
Anyway, this is a good start for Reeves but let’s have something for the North .
It is just your prejudices that try to imply He did when He didn't
A principle that would save us all a lot of trouble.
I left the C of E 20 years ago, because of it’s political stance.
The problem is under FPTP the pro Brexit right is now divided between hard Brexit Reform and soft Brexit Tories, combined most polls have them well ahead of Labour and the LDs and over 40%
Sure, you can stone an adulterous woman, but first be sure that you are sinless.