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What is it about British party leaders and sandwiches? – politicalbetting.com

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  • @Taz You do know it’s just that being @ means you get notified, if you just didn’t quote the thread it will quickly die.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Reassuring to see people are more and more turning to cash to help them budget

    Now one in five purchases are cash.

    This is nice to see

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1el81lenq1o.amp

    This had already been noted.
    That is good to know. I do not post here all the time so miss stuff that gets posted from time to time
    Likewise. Our busy lives mean we both get short changed in such matters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    I was out last night, sadly they didn’t accept cash so I had to leave on principle.

    Oh no, I just paid with my phone.

    I went into the new pub in my neighbourhood the other night.

    It does not accept cash. So I walked off...

    ...to its contactless machine, where I paid with my watch.
    Did it take time?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    I gave two positive examples of transgender people in my post above. The opposition isn’t about transgender people, it’s about such concepts being heavily promoted to children.
    Yeah, but no. That's like an anti-Semite mentioning two Jews they don't particularly hate.

    So I ask again: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person?
  • I identify as hating cash
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Perhaps Musk sympathises with the murder of Brian Thompson.
    Suspect that every CEO in the US is taking a very big look at their personal security at the moment. Many healthcare companies have deleted “management team” biographies from websites in the past week.

    I’m genuinely interested if the incoming administration can un-fcuk healthcare in the US. Where I live the system is roughly similar, an insurance-based model, but without the total fcukery seen in the US, and it generally works well, without the massively inflated prices and contractual terms that are common Stateside.
    Hardly given the GOP opposition to socialised medicine
    No, the sandpit has pretty much the US system at a high level, an insurance-based model mostly sponsored by employers.

    Except that the pharmacy will tell you the price of any given drug, and the hospital will tell you the price of any given treatment, telling the pharmacist I have insurance doesn’t make a $10 drug suddenly have a $20 copay and a $200 bill sent somewhere that gets rebated $150 back to the “Pharmacy Benefit Manager” that’s owned by the insurance company.

    That’s all before we start on Medicare and Medicaid not being allowed to negotiate prices on drugs, they either have to pay the list price or not carry them, as the manufacturers spend literally billions on end-user TV advertisements and billions more on marketing drugs to doctors with commissions on prescription.

    Oh, and every doctor needs to spend $250k per year on professional indemnity insurance, because you’ll need a lawyer on rentention to be an American doctor.

    The US healthcare system is actually that fcuked.
    AIUI Medicare and Mecaid ARE allowed to negotiate prices of drugs, and have saved hundreds of millions already, under the Biden reforms in the Inflation Reduction Act, ... which I think Trump has promised to roll back.

    I'm not all over this though, so I'd welcome others commenting.
    That program covers ten specific drugs.
    https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/medicare-drug-price-negotiation-program-negotiated-prices-initial-price-applicability-year-2026
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    @Taz You do know it’s just that being @ means you get notified, if you just didn’t quote the thread it will quickly die.

    I obliged and removed the @ as a gesture of goodwill.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    I identify as hating cash

    Bill?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?
    Duh. Try this one: https://nitter.poast.org/MrMennoTweets/status/1855543379762810945#m

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    The perfect comedy of you talking about anyone else ranting on about this issue. Absolutely deranged.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    glw said:

    Taz said:

    We have heard it all before. Go for growth, close the productivity gap, with the usual result of nothing substantive being achieved.

    I get them wanting to make out they had inherited a mess, they just really really overdid the doom and gloom.

    This was a supposed govt in waiting ready to hit the ground running. So far it just feels like we have exchanged one lot of dull incompetents for another.

    Sunak is a lot more plausible on the growth stuff. Because people believe that he's got some big ideas, and is willing to take risks, and knows what he's talking about. Of course perception is not execution, we know that talk is cheap.
    For all Starmer's 'son of a toolmaker' self-branding does anyone believe that Starmer could run a toolmaking business ?
    Absolutely not.

    And Ive managed tool making businesses for over 25 years
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,780
    edited December 13

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    So who was lost in the 'purges of 2019' ?

    Here are the names:

    Guto Bebb
    Ken Clarke
    David Gauke
    Sam Gyimah
    Justine Greening
    Dominic Grieve
    Philip Hammond
    Olly Letwin
    Anne Milton
    Antoinette Sandbach
    Rory Stewart

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_suspension_of_rebel_Conservative_MPs

    Give their ages and the loss of seats this year how many would even still be MPs ?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    edited December 13

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
    But the bottom line is that the French system is miles better than ours both in terms of front line delivery of services and health outcomes. The same goes for much of the rest of Europe.

    And the French system is not 'payment at delivery' with the exception of the very sensible system of making people pay for GP visits then refunding it when they actually turn up. Indeed the French system generally is a lot less payment at delivery than our own when it comes to things like prescriptions and dentistry where much of the cost above a nominal 1 Euro per prescription is reimbursed by the state.
    I'm sure you're correct about outcomes, presciptions and dentistry, however key word there being "reimbursed", you pay then get reimbursed. Reimbursement is getting much quicker but creates problems for those who can't make the initial payment or access to a bank account.
    Streeting made the point on QT that the differences in delivery and outcomes between different health systems is almost entirely independent of how it is paid for. Which gives hope that he is focusing on delivery and outcomes not charging systems.
    I disagree entirely. The payment/reimbursment only applies to GP visits (for thespecific reason of discouraging missed appointments) and to things we already pay for in the UK - dentistry and prescriptions. And in those cases it is at a much lower level than in the UK and with reimbursment on top.

    You are criticising France for actually having fewer upfront payments (with the notable exception of GPs) than the UK. And if you are poor then those charges don't apply to you anyway.

    The French system is simply better than the NHS both in terms of its delivery and the way it is paid for.
    My experience is that pretty much every healthcare system in Europe is better than NHS. The NHS is a system that is designed to benefit it's staff, and in particular the featherbedded medical profession, rather than benefit patients
    I agree. I have inpatient experience in France, Norway and the Netherlands and A&E/GP services in Italy and Denmark. All those systems were personally far better than in the UK in terms of access and delivery. The poorest was probably Norway (which surprised me) as they insisted on payment at the time for treatment as I was a foreign national even though I had the E101.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    @Taz You do know it’s just that being @ means you get notified, if you just didn’t quote the thread it will quickly die.

    Hi Horse.

    Yeah, I just keep getting notifications pop up. Fine if I want to engage. But in this case it is just trollbait so I don't really wish to. It was just a polite request.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    maaarsh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    The perfect comedy of you talking about anyone else ranting on about this issue. Absolutely deranged.
    Nah, not really. You'd really know it if I was ranting. ;)

    I remind you that this started because Sandpit got triggered by a joke...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    @Taz You do know it’s just that being @ means you get notified, if you just didn’t quote the thread it will quickly die.

    I obliged and removed the @ as a gesture of goodwill.
    Thank you, I appreciate that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    I gave two positive examples of transgender people in my post above. The opposition isn’t about transgender people, it’s about such concepts being heavily promoted to children.
    Yeah, but no. That's like an anti-Semite mentioning two Jews they don't particularly hate.

    So I ask again: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person?
    What? Why do you keep trying to make comments personal? I go out of my way here to avoid personal comments and will ignore those that stray into that area.

    To re-iterate. There’s no problem with transgender people. The problem is with the adults pushing transgender ideology onto children.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    edited December 13

    maaarsh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    The perfect comedy of you talking about anyone else ranting on about this issue. Absolutely deranged.
    Nah, not really. You'd really know it if I was ranting. ;)

    I remind you that this started because Sandpit got triggered by a joke...
    Err, it's not Sandpit that got triggered by the joke...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    theProle said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    To be fair, it's not really Kemi's fault we're all talking about this. She made some fairly offhand remarks about what she likes for lunch in the middle of a longish interview, and the media has promptly gone nuts.
    The problem is really a media which doesn't understand or explain big issues, so instead is reduced to shouting about personalities.
    The media understands its market. This is all about clickbait and driving traffic. I agree it is not Kemi;s fault, and this is nothing really sinister about lunch or deep and meaningful, but the media presents what will interest people and keep them coming back. It is why so many local rags and the likes of the Express constantly have "updates" about WASPI payouts for example. Engagement farming based on something said that was sensational.

    I doubt the Spectator are too unhappy about it either if it is driving them traffic.
    This is where the BBC should really come into its own, but sadly they’re going down the same route as the rest of the media and going for the lowest common denominator.

    This year in the US was the long-predicted breakthrough of new media dominance in an election campaign, it’s very likely that by the next UK election no-one under 50 is going to be watching anything on TV at all. Kemi could do a lot worse than going around the top 20 podcasts in the next couple of years, talking for an hour or two on whatever subject comes up. She’d be a lot better at that format than Starmer.
    Yes. Podcasts are showing up the BBC as dowdy. There are well informed podcasts that don't do 'gotcha' stuff, and are informedly opinionated, and are aware of the awful wickedness of the world without having to reiterate it endlessly. The BBC overdoes the human interest (it is of course relevant and real) reporting of Syria and especially Sudan -when it does anything - rather than deeply interpreting what is occurring.
    I don't do podcasts (too slow), but I've been impressed by the BBC's Factcheck operation and their ability to conjure up reporters - even with heavy accents - in hitherto obscure places around the planet.

    Kemi's prompting a response from Starmer on sandwiches is probably a net plus for her (and certainly for the Spectator). He'd have been better advised to ignore it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    edited December 13

    I identify as hating cash

    I can offer a procedure to remove your cash.
    Rachel Reeves is expert in said field (along with being a Complaints Support Manager, er economist)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
  • Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    Not complete crap.

    Covid vaccines
    Energy subsidies
    NI cuts

    were three things done well IMO.

    But there was still plenty of crap to go with the sleaze and self-obsession.

    They did deserve to lose.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited December 13
    ...
    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    All MPs? I'll raise you Eric Heffer.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
    But the bottom line is that the French system is miles better than ours both in terms of front line delivery of services and health outcomes. The same goes for much of the rest of Europe.

    And the French system is not 'payment at delivery' with the exception of the very sensible system of making people pay for GP visits then refunding it when they actually turn up. Indeed the French system generally is a lot less payment at delivery than our own when it comes to things like prescriptions and dentistry where much of the cost above a nominal 1 Euro per prescription is reimbursed by the state.
    I'm sure you're correct about outcomes, presciptions and dentistry, however key word there being "reimbursed", you pay then get reimbursed. Reimbursement is getting much quicker but creates problems for those who can't make the initial payment or access to a bank account.
    Streeting made the point on QT that the differences in delivery and outcomes between different health systems is almost entirely independent of how it is paid for. Which gives hope that he is focusing on delivery and outcomes not charging systems.
    I disagree entirely. The payment/reimbursment only applies to GP visits (for thespecific reason of discouraging missed appointments) and to things we already pay for in the UK - dentistry and prescriptions. And in those cases it is at a much lower level than in the UK and with reimbursment on top.

    You are criticising France for actually having fewer upfront payments (with the notable exception of GPs) than the UK. And if you are poor then those charges don't apply to you anyway.

    The French system is simply better than the NHS both in terms of its delivery and the way it is paid for.
    My experience is that pretty much every healthcare system in Europe is better than NHS. The NHS is a system that is designed to benefit it's staff, and in particular the featherbedded medical profession, rather than benefit patients
    I agree. I have inpatient experience in France, Norway and the Netherlands and A&E/GP services in Italy and Denmark. All those systems were personally far better than in the UK in terms of access and delivery. The poorest was probably Norway (which surprised me) as they insisted on payment at the time for treatment as I was a foreign national even though I had the E101.
    The deification of the NHS is perhaps one of the most successful con tricks ever perpetrated on a supposed sophisticated nation. It only works because we are an island and people have limited experience of other systems
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    edited December 13
    ...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    Things the 'opppsition' is about:
    1) Men unconvincingly identifying as women occupying women's spaces (Lia Thomas, Isla Bryson and a long tail of less famous examples). This is the big one for many women.
    2) An agenda of "if you don't conform to gender stereotype x, you are trans, and your condition can and should be addressed with drugs and/or surgery" being pushed on kids. This is the big one for many parents.
    3) Discomfort with the argument of "x is true because !x would hurt my feelings," and/or the idea that someone can have a "real" internal gender different from their physical sex*. This is the big one for rationalists.

    I don't 'hate' trans people any more than I hate, say, the depressed. Possibly I do - if not hate, deeply resent, trans activists (the people going into primary schools to tell children there are 63 genders, or the educationalists marginalising teachers who suggest there are not, or the people who consider issuing death threats against the likes of JK Rowling to be good sport, or who try to ruin the careers of people who publicly differ from the choose-your-gender orthodoxy, or the male chancers trying their luck in female sport or female prisons) but trans people are not necessarily trans activists, and trans activists are not necessarily trans people.
    But I think the approach of changing reality to fit perception rather than the other way around is at best odd and at worst deeply harmful.
    Thanks for that response. I'd argue the opposition is about *much* more than that.

    From my perspective, I have knows several trans people, a couple very well. A schoolfriend told me he was trans when he joined the school aged 13 or so, and he later transitioned, so a lot of the debate about kids not being trans is, in my experience, utterly wrong. He was.

    Trans women are not 'men in skirts'. Trans men are not 'misguided lesbians'. This are common statements, seen even on here.

    That is 'reality'.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Maybe PB should go the other way, and instead deliberately transpose a character in all leaders’ given names. Just for the LOLz.

    Ekmi Badenoch
    Sir De Davey
    Ingel Farage

    It could work.

    #humour

    Except...the End of the Kier Show does actually work, on a mildly humorous level.

    Your offerings? Not so much at all.
    You could still have End of the Keir Show, works fine without the misspelling.

    Would you prefer anagram stories for the MEGALOLZ???

    Davey Rides,
    I'd Cab Ken Home,
    Fearing Gale.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    They can't blame the Tories for this one.

    They will, but they own this. Largely down to their doom and gloom and talking down the economy,

    "KPMG's chief economist Yael Selfin said that activity was "held back by uncertainty ahead of the Budget on 30 October" as businesses and consumers held back on spending."
    problem is the budget wont do anything to cheer people up so odds on November being bad too. Technically we could be heading for a recession.

    All of this was avoidable.
    It is a massive self inflicted wound. They really overdid the doom and gloom.

    I think Rachel Reeves comment is a little bit delusional too. I cannot see how her policies are going to deliver the long term growth we need and the current trend is for job openings to shrink in response to the changes to NI in the budget. The "they should just take it from their profits, my heart bleeds for the multi millionaires running these companies who can pay for it" brigade will not be so smug about it when the effects of the changes start to impact.

    "Chancellor Rachel Reeves said the figure was "disappointing", but added: "We have put in place policies to deliver long-term economic growth.""
    Exactly and the labour cheerleaders will not be so smug when they are losing their jobs due to it. Toilet beckons.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?
    Duh. Try this one: https://nitter.poast.org/MrMennoTweets/status/1855543379762810945#m

    What in Britain was called the Trans-TERF war (but has now widened out) can be thought of as a war of ideas[1]. One side holds that a woman is solely defined by genetics, the other not. Terms for each side are disputed, but I'll use "gender critical" for the genetics-only side, and "gender ideologue" for the not side. Each side has various factions. One faction amongst the gender-critical, who have taken to calling themselves "ultras", refuse to use female pronouns for anybody born male, and those in turn include those who would prevent anybody transitioning or even involuntarily detransitioning those who have.

    [1] "Wars of idea" is a distinct type of warfare and has known methods of measurement. Ultimately, everything is numbers... :)

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    This one has already managed to turn around the economy, in the wrong way lol
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    Anybody who goes into a shop knows inflation is not dropping , quite the opposite.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    Not complete crap.

    Covid vaccines
    Energy subsidies
    NI cuts

    were three things done well IMO.

    But there was still plenty of crap to go with the sleaze and self-obsession.

    They did deserve to lose.
    The NI cuts are why this Government are in the mess they are in - so I wouldn’t say they did 3 things well.

    Equally the energy approach cost a fortune and didn’t solve much
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    GDP fell 0.1% in October 2024. Services showed no growth, while Production (-0.6%) and construction (-0.4%) both fell.
  • Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    So who was lost in the 'purges of 2019' ?

    Here are the names:

    Guto Bebb
    Ken Clarke
    David Gauke
    Sam Gyimah
    Justine Greening
    Dominic Grieve
    Philip Hammond
    Olly Letwin
    Anne Milton
    Antoinette Sandbach
    Rory Stewart

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_suspension_of_rebel_Conservative_MPs

    Give their ages and the loss of seats this year how many would even still be MPs ?
    It wasn't so much about the MPs (though 2022-now would have benefitted from having people like Gauke, Greening and Stewart on-call) as the effect on the candidates' list. The people who didn't enter parliament in 2019 or 2024. The people who won't be interesting spokesmen in 2028 or senior Cabinet members in 2033.

    The curse of delayed consequences strikes again.
  • MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
    The big money opportunities come after their career in politics.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394
    edited December 13

    JENRICK takes on the mantle of Palmerston.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1867491326847033550

    We urgently need this clear-sighted statesman in government. Can a safe-seat byelection be arranged or would a peerage be quicker? It's the New Year's Honours in a couple of weeks.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    How is Rachel Reeves so crap? How on earth did she obtain a 1st class degree from the LSE?

    (I still don’t understand why Labour have talked economy down for months and then slapped a huge tax on business, expecting that to have any other outcome than what we see now..)

    How so many have forgotten the Q3 / Q4 recession of 2023.

    The frigged and clearly unsustainable "gangbusters" of Q1 2024 when Sunak conned himself and the tory Party that it was anything but a blip.

    Q3 figures almost entirely as a result of the Farage supported and encouraged riots and some adverse early Autumn weather.

    November won't look great either given various named storms delaying Construction and delaying early Christmas foot fall...

    Judge Labour in 2025 as the green shoots of their work in Q3 and Q4 this year starts to deliver tangible benefits.

    You don't refloat a sunken and stripped out tanker in 5 minutes....you have to get it back to the surface, invest in refitting and only then can you sail the seven seas into an increasing bright future...
    Another pig just flew past after that broadcast from Labour HQ.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    Good morning, everyone.

    Got to love a parcel delivery that's given to someone who isn't me, at an address that isn't mine. Advice is to wait a day then raise it, but I'm less than thrilled. Luckily, it's for me rather than a Christmas gift.

    F1: for those who missed it, my look back at a very mixed season is up here: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2024/12/f1-2024-season-betting-review.html

    If you just want the basics, scroll down to the first graph and then profit/loss per third of the year, plus overall results, are there.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    On thread: Not really Kemi's fault, this. She has a perfectly valid view of sandwiches, albeit not one I share (though I'm with her on the undesirability of soggy bread). She was asked about sandwiches in a wide-ranging interview, and its an idiosyncracy of the British media (and indeed consumers of the British media) that this is the detail that gets picked up. Inasmuch as I habe a view, I'm more worried about Kemi's disdain for lunch as a whole than
  • Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
    But the bottom line is that the French system is miles better than ours both in terms of front line delivery of services and health outcomes. The same goes for much of the rest of Europe.

    And the French system is not 'payment at delivery' with the exception of the very sensible system of making people pay for GP visits then refunding it when they actually turn up. Indeed the French system generally is a lot less payment at delivery than our own when it comes to things like prescriptions and dentistry where much of the cost above a nominal 1 Euro per prescription is reimbursed by the state.
    I'm sure you're correct about outcomes, presciptions and dentistry, however key word there being "reimbursed", you pay then get reimbursed. Reimbursement is getting much quicker but creates problems for those who can't make the initial payment or access to a bank account.
    Streeting made the point on QT that the differences in delivery and outcomes between different health systems is almost entirely independent of how it is paid for. Which gives hope that he is focusing on delivery and outcomes not charging systems.
    I disagree entirely. The payment/reimbursment only applies to GP visits (for thespecific reason of discouraging missed appointments) and to things we already pay for in the UK - dentistry and prescriptions. And in those cases it is at a much lower level than in the UK and with reimbursment on top.

    You are criticising France for actually having fewer upfront payments (with the notable exception of GPs) than the UK. And if you are poor then those charges don't apply to you anyway.

    The French system is simply better than the NHS both in terms of its delivery and the way it is paid for.
    My experience is that pretty much every healthcare system in Europe is better than NHS. The NHS is a system that is designed to benefit it's staff, and in particular the featherbedded medical profession, rather than benefit patients
    I agree. I have inpatient experience in France, Norway and the Netherlands and A&E/GP services in Italy and Denmark. All those systems were personally far better than in the UK in terms of access and delivery. The poorest was probably Norway (which surprised me) as they insisted on payment at the time for treatment as I was a foreign national even though I had the E101.
    The deification of the NHS is perhaps one of the most successful con tricks ever perpetrated on a supposed sophisticated nation. It only works because we are an island and people have limited experience of other systems
    The worst thing about the deification of the NHS is that it does the NHS, let alone patients, no good at all.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    I identify as hating cash

    you got your sandals on the wrong feet again
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited December 13

    I identify as hating cash

    I can offer a procedure to remove your cash.
    I doubt he has any. What would he? As now discussed ad infinitum, the stuff is utterly pointless. Some people like it, for reasons best known to themselves, so not right to abolish it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    MaxPB said:

    maaarsh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    The perfect comedy of you talking about anyone else ranting on about this issue. Absolutely deranged.
    Nah, not really. You'd really know it if I was ranting. ;)

    I remind you that this started because Sandpit got triggered by a joke...
    Err, it's not Sandpit that got triggered by the joke...
    Read the thread. He posted it, with "An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years. "

    So yeah, he did.
  • JENRICK takes on the mantle of Palmerston.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1867491326847033550

    We urgently need this clear-sighted statesman in government. Can a safe-seat byelection be arranged or would a peerage be quicker? It's the New Year's Honours in a couple of weeks.
    Palmerston? I suppose he could run on "a better leader dead than the others alive". Might even be true.
  • Cookie said:

    On thread: Not really Kemi's fault, this. She has a perfectly valid view of sandwiches, albeit not one I share (though I'm with her on the undesirability of soggy bread). She was asked about sandwiches in a wide-ranging interview, and its an idiosyncracy of the British media (and indeed consumers of the British media) that this is the detail that gets picked up. Inasmuch as I habe a view, I'm more worried about Kemi's disdain for lunch as a whole than

    What is Kemi's view on lunch? Lunch is for wimps but also she eats steak at her desk. Flagrant cakeism!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    Not complete crap.

    Covid vaccines
    Energy subsidies
    NI cuts

    were three things done well IMO.

    But there was still plenty of crap to go with the sleaze and self-obsession.

    They did deserve to lose.
    No the energy subsidies were shit, they should have forced the losses onto the companies and then allowed them to apply for reasonable rebates on those losses at a customer level same as the French. The way it was implemented meant that companies were able to minimise their own operating costs as they normally would but still charge whatever they wanted on the other side. It's no surprise that the big energy companies made record profits during that time here while the French system kept prices low and stopped their energy sector profiteering from government subsidies.

    It all stems from the completely stupid energy price cap policy which is a nasty bit of socialism from Theresa May that Rishi should have dropped on day one.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Cookie said:

    On thread: Not really Kemi's fault, this. She has a perfectly valid view of sandwiches, albeit not one I share (though I'm with her on the undesirability of soggy bread). She was asked about sandwiches in a wide-ranging interview, and its an idiosyncracy of the British media (and indeed consumers of the British media) that this is the detail that gets picked up. Inasmuch as I habe a view, I'm more worried about Kemi's disdain for lunch as a whole than

    ...specifically her view on sandwiches. It is in any case a view slightly less peculiar than that of Rishi Sunak claiming that sandwiches were his favourite meal.

    FWIW, my two greatest ever sandwiches were:
    1) A grilled cheese sandwich - simple, but wonderfully, wonderfully done - Trent Bridge, June 2022(ish).
    2) A roast beef and marmalade sandwich, some sandwich shop in the arcades off Briggate, January 2008.

    See? We all have an opinion on samdwiches. This is why this sort of thing is so deliciously clickbaity.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    I gave two positive examples of transgender people in my post above. The opposition isn’t about transgender people, it’s about such concepts being heavily promoted to children.
    Yeah, but no. That's like an anti-Semite mentioning two Jews they don't particularly hate.

    So I ask again: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person?
    FFS - spare us this garbage. The best sign of acceptance is when we're all indifferent to gays/trans/black/ white, etc. Stop being so needy all the time. It's really boring and stupid.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    The FBI informant who lied about Hunter Biden cuts plea deal with the prosecutor who helped sabotage Hunter Biden's plea deal...

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/12/politics/david-weiss-fbi-informant-alexander-smirnov-plea/index.html

    ...An FBI informant accused of lying about the Biden family has cut a plea deal with special counsel David Weiss, the prosecutor who led the criminal probe into Hunter Biden.

    Alexander Smirnov is set to plead guilty to four charges, including tax evasion and obstructing justice by providing false information to the FBI, according to a court filing in California on Thursday.

    Smirnov had falsely told the FBI in 2020 that Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company, was illicitly paying off Joe Biden while he was vice president, and his son Hunter, who was on the company’s board..


    Couple of points here.
    The plea deal combines two completely separate charges (something Weiss denied Biden) and both Probation and the Judge are explicitly barred from having any say in the deal... which is what sunk Hunter Biden's plea deal.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
    The big money opportunities come after their career in politics.
    Which is the actual problem.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
    Not for majority of the population, only for a very small majority of us. Methinks you doth exaggerate.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    MaxPB said:

    maaarsh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    The perfect comedy of you talking about anyone else ranting on about this issue. Absolutely deranged.
    Nah, not really. You'd really know it if I was ranting. ;)

    I remind you that this started because Sandpit got triggered by a joke...
    Err, it's not Sandpit that got triggered by the joke...
    Indeed. I posted the joke as a parody with which I agree, definitely not triggered nor offended.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    Not complete crap.

    Covid vaccines
    Energy subsidies
    NI cuts

    were three things done well IMO.

    But there was still plenty of crap to go with the sleaze and self-obsession.

    They did deserve to lose.
    The NI cuts are why this Government are in the mess they are in - so I wouldn’t say they did 3 things well.

    Equally the energy approach cost a fortune and didn’t solve much
    The Government elected in 2019 gave us Brexit.

    Probably among the four worst Government decisions I've seen in my lifetime.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    Not complete crap.

    Covid vaccines
    Energy subsidies
    NI cuts

    were three things done well IMO.

    But there was still plenty of crap to go with the sleaze and self-obsession.

    They did deserve to lose.
    The NI cuts are why this Government are in the mess they are in - so I wouldn’t say they did 3 things well.

    Equally the energy approach cost a fortune and didn’t solve much
    The NI cut needed to go further and be coupled with spending cuts. We can easily cut £50bn in spending and eliminate employee's NI entirely and hold thresholds at current levels so that the tax system is equalised for working and non working incomes.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    Cookie said:

    On thread: Not really Kemi's fault, this. She has a perfectly valid view of sandwiches, albeit not one I share (though I'm with her on the undesirability of soggy bread). She was asked about sandwiches in a wide-ranging interview, and its an idiosyncracy of the British media (and indeed consumers of the British media) that this is the detail that gets picked up. Inasmuch as I habe a view, I'm more worried about Kemi's disdain for lunch as a whole than

    What is Kemi's view on lunch? Lunch is for wimps but also she eats steak at her desk. Flagrant cakeism!
    Who doesn't have a steak brought to their desk
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    maaarsh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    The perfect comedy of you talking about anyone else ranting on about this issue. Absolutely deranged.
    Nah, not really. You'd really know it if I was ranting. ;)

    I remind you that this started because Sandpit got triggered by a joke...
    Err, it's not Sandpit that got triggered by the joke...
    Indeed. I posted the joke as a parody with which I agree, definitely not triggered nor offended.
    Your last line in that post puts a lie to that...
  • Wes Streeting should be Labour leader.

    Wes Streeting has criticised Ed Miliband over his failure to back military action against Bashar al-Assad in 2013.

    Mr Miliband, the Energy Secretary, was Labour leader when he led efforts to torpedo Lord Cameron’s attempt to launch strikes in Syria to deter the use of chemical weapons.

    On Thursday night Mr Streeting, the Health Secretary, said that “if the West had acted faster, Assad would have been gone”.

    But Mr Miliband rebuked his Cabinet colleague on Friday morning, saying it was “just wrong” to suggest Assad would have been forced from power sooner if the West had acted at the time.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/12/12/uk-assad-power-voted-against-syria-action-labour-streeting/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    Cookie said:

    On thread: Not really Kemi's fault, this. She has a perfectly valid view of sandwiches, albeit not one I share (though I'm with her on the undesirability of soggy bread). She was asked about sandwiches in a wide-ranging interview, and its an idiosyncracy of the British media (and indeed consumers of the British media) that this is the detail that gets picked up. Inasmuch as I habe a view, I'm more worried about Kemi's disdain for lunch as a whole than

    What is Kemi's view on lunch? Lunch is for wimps but also she eats steak at her desk. Flagrant cakeism!
    The disappointment is if she doesn't eat her steak tartare...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    As well as an incoming US government promising a serious bonfire of regulations and taxes.
    ...and tariffs >:)
    Does anyone think Trump will actually implement the tarrifs on Canada and Mexico? It's one thing to say it...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    Not complete crap.

    Covid vaccines
    Energy subsidies
    NI cuts

    were three things done well IMO.

    But there was still plenty of crap to go with the sleaze and self-obsession.

    They did deserve to lose.
    The NI cuts are why this Government are in the mess they are in - so I wouldn’t say they did 3 things well.

    Equally the energy approach cost a fortune and didn’t solve much
    The NI cut needed to go further and be coupled with spending cuts. We can easily cut £50bn in spending and eliminate employee's NI entirely and hold thresholds at current levels so that the tax system is equalised for working and non working incomes.
    If spending cuts had actually been implemented then yes the NI cuts were affordable - but no spending cuts were implemented or even thought about.

    And you will have noticed that I’ve never suggested reversing the NI cuts the increase should be to income tax (3p) with the WFA retained as a freebie for low income pensioners
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    On thread: Not really Kemi's fault, this. She has a perfectly valid view of sandwiches, albeit not one I share (though I'm with her on the undesirability of soggy bread). She was asked about sandwiches in a wide-ranging interview, and its an idiosyncracy of the British media (and indeed consumers of the British media) that this is the detail that gets picked up. Inasmuch as I habe a view, I'm more worried about Kemi's disdain for lunch as a whole than

    ...specifically her view on sandwiches. It is in any case a view slightly less peculiar than that of Rishi Sunak claiming that sandwiches were his favourite meal.

    FWIW, my two greatest ever sandwiches were:
    1) A grilled cheese sandwich - simple, but wonderfully, wonderfully done - Trent Bridge, June 2022(ish).
    2) A roast beef and marmalade sandwich, some sandwich shop in the arcades off Briggate, January 2008.

    See? We all have an opinion on samdwiches. This is why this sort of thing is so deliciously clickbaity.
    My wife makes delicious sandwiches. Prawn and salad (I know) are among her best.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    Anybody who goes into a shop knows inflation is not dropping , quite the opposite.
    Really? I watch prices in Tesco and Sainsburys like a hawk, these being the biggest part of my outgoings. My view is that there was a steep rise in prices which coincided with the end of covid/start of Ukraine, which stabilised (i.e. food inflation dropped back to about zero) after about 16 months (i.e. about a year ago) and that prices ha e in anything dipped since then. Supermarket food prices are still higher thanin 2020, but my perception is that food price inflation is downwards.

    Restauarant food prices may still be increasing, but that forms a much smaller part of my experience. Even here, the impression I get is that these have stabilised lately.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Didn’t we also burn the most gas in a single day in our history?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Same in Germany - Dunkelflaute
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 13
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    Anybody who goes into a shop knows inflation is not dropping , quite the opposite.
    The Tories on here did like to imply that because inflation is dropping, actual prices go down.

    I do wonder about the state of mathematical understanding in the UK. But then we've had a PM who can't understand exponential functions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
    MPs pay is almost three times the average voters pay, plus expenses, so plenty will still want to do it

    Even if many KCs and investment bankers and company directors who might have considered it in the past can't be bothered to take the pay cut as well as social media abuse now
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    I see Miliband is still rewriting history around his reported intentions with the Syria vote a decade ago, which after the fact he pretended was sone general anti-war stance. He is quite ruthless when he chooses to be.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    Anybody who goes into a shop knows inflation is not dropping , quite the opposite.
    The Tories on here did like to imply that because inflation is dropping, actual prices go down.

    I do wonder about the state of mathematical understanding in the UK. But then we've had a PM who can't understand exponential functions.
    The easiest was to reduce price (not most food, I know) is to cut VAT. Among the worst things the Thatcher Government did was to raise VAT significantly.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 13

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Point of Order

    This is a Conservative Party fansite please do not critique Conservatives. You need to understand that Kemi beasted Starmer over sandwiches and Reeves has squandered the golden legacy. Also please be aware Brexit is going well and the Rwanda removal scheme was a work of genius. If you have any questions just ask @Alanbrook Taz or @FrancisUrquhart they are here to help throughout the day.
    I see you are at the nonsense again. As I have told you plenty of times, I have no love for the Tories, particularly the past 10 years worth of them. And as I have said, you will struggle to find much evidence of me backing them up on the crap policies they have come up e.g. It won't be hard to find that I said from the get go that I thought the Rwanda scheme was nonsense.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    https://x.com/rachelreevesmp/status/1867523659524354553

    Today's GDP figures are disappointing.

    However, I'm determined to turn the economy around so it works for working people once again.

    That's why we are building 1.5 million homes, creating the National Wealth Fund and reforming our pensions market to make Britain better off.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    It might not be AI that wipes us out.

    Technical Report on Mirror Bacteria: Feasibility and Risks

    https://purl.stanford.edu/cv716pj4036
    This report describes the technical feasibility of creating mirror bacteria and the potentially serious and wide-ranging risks that they could pose to humans, other animals, plants, and the environment. It accompanies the Science Policy Forum article titled “Confronting risks of mirror life”, published in December 2024.

    In a mirror bacterium, all of the chiral molecules of existing bacteria—proteins, nucleic acids, and metabolites—are replaced by their mirror images. Mirror bacteria could not evolve from existing life, but their creation will become increasingly feasible as science advances. Interactions between organisms often depend on chirality, and so interactions between natural organisms and mirror bacteria would be profoundly different from those between natural organisms. Most importantly, immune defenses and predation typically rely on interactions between chiral molecules that could often fail to detect or kill mirror bacteria due to their reversed chirality. It therefore appears plausible, even likely, that sufficiently robust mirror bacteria could spread through the environment unchecked by natural biological controls and act as dangerous opportunistic pathogens in an unprecedentedly wide range of other multicellular organisms, including humans.

    This report draws on expertise from synthetic biology, immunology, ecology, and related fields to provide the first comprehensive assessment of the risks from mirror bacteria. It consists of eight chapters and starts with a general introduction, followed by an examination of the initial creation of mirror bacteria, their further engineering, as well as biosecurity and biosafety implications. The remaining five chapters cover risks to human health, medical countermeasures, risks to other animals, risks to plants, and the potential ecological consequences of their introduction into the environment...

    The good news is that such an effort would be a massive undertaking. It's not something anyone is going to cook up in a small laboratory.

    It would be a Manhattan Project size problem to create such organisms, but it's almost certainly possible. Not doing it would be a very good idea.
    I haven't read the article (!)

    But surely the problem goes both ways. Yes it is possible to have organisms based on reverse geometry, but surely they would struggle to live in an orthodox world as their own enzymes and binding sites wouldn't work on us either.
    That's considered at some length in the report (p99 onwards).
    They come up with plausible hypotheses of how it might get into the body, and how it might well survive and replicate in the bloodstream, for example.

    The preceding discussion of the immune system, and which aspects of it won't function against mirror bacteria, and which plausibly might, is quite a good primer on what we know about how it functions.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    LOL - great except it's Ed Miliband and he's a twat so all the targets will be missed.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    Cookie said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    Anybody who goes into a shop knows inflation is not dropping , quite the opposite.
    Really? I watch prices in Tesco and Sainsburys like a hawk, these being the biggest part of my outgoings. My view is that there was a steep rise in prices which coincided with the end of covid/start of Ukraine, which stabilised (i.e. food inflation dropped back to about zero) after about 16 months (i.e. about a year ago) and that prices ha e in anything dipped since then. Supermarket food prices are still higher thanin 2020, but my perception is that food price inflation is downwards.

    Restauarant food prices may still be increasing, but that forms a much smaller part of my experience. Even here, the impression I get is that these have stabilised lately.
    Its hard to tell with shrinkflation and drops in quality. Absolute price paid per item probably stable, maybe even falling but price per kg for same quality probably rising still.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
  • https://x.com/rachelreevesmp/status/1867523659524354553

    Today's GDP figures are disappointing.

    However, I'm determined to turn the economy around so it works for working people once again.

    That's why we are building 1.5 million homes, creating the National Wealth Fund and reforming our pensions market to make Britain better off.

    I think the computer needs switching off and on again.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
    MPs pay is almost three times the average voters pay, plus expenses, so plenty will still want to do it

    Even if many KCs and investment bankers and company directors who might have considered it in the past can't be bothered to take the pay cut as well as social media abuse now
    I do think being an MP is not nice in some ways, and id even support them being paid more (with a curtailment on expenses), but the negatives and 'poor' pay is a bit overdone and self pitying sometimes. Its still a well paid job with prestige, connections, and power, if you are senior.

    So whilst im more sympathetic to MPs than most people the 'who would leave their 200k job to be an MP?' crowd tend to overegg it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    https://x.com/rachelreevesmp/status/1867523659524354553

    Today's GDP figures are disappointing.

    However, I'm determined to turn the economy around so it works for working people once again.

    That's why we are building 1.5 million homes, creating the National Wealth Fund and reforming our pensions market to make Britain better off.

    Funnily enough I dont feel better off
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,226

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Her main virtue was (and is) that she isn't Robert Generic, who was like a bad parody of a Tory leader.

    Actually listening to her at PMQs, I'd say she isn't as bad as the media want to make out - some of her lines of attack are quite good, and all Starmer can generally come back with is "why didn't your lot fix it during the last 14 years", which would have been a problem for any Tory leader - and the potency of which will steadily fade.
  • eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    Not complete crap.

    Covid vaccines
    Energy subsidies
    NI cuts

    were three things done well IMO.

    But there was still plenty of crap to go with the sleaze and self-obsession.

    They did deserve to lose.
    The NI cuts are why this Government are in the mess they are in - so I wouldn’t say they did 3 things well.

    Equally the energy approach cost a fortune and didn’t solve much
    The NI cuts were matched by income tax threshold freezes.

    And the energy approach kept the economy and society going in 2022/23 while still encouraging greater energy efficiency.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    What's the national wealth fund about ?

    How are we going to generate national wealth ?

    What assets are we buying, what income are we going to generate ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 13
    Pulpstar said:

    What's the national wealth fund about ?

    How are we going to generate national wealth ?

    What assets are we buying, what income are we going to generate ?

    Because it isn't a national wealth fund, its centralised PFI. They are just lying to make it sound like the thing that does Norway and Saudi so well when it is just more borrowing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    About 200 GW?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030

    Pulpstar said:

    What's the national wealth fund about ?

    How are we going to generate national wealth ?

    What assets are we buying, what income are we going to generate ?

    Because it isn't a national wealth fund, its centralised PFI.
    Oh, joy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ...
    theProle said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Her main virtue was (and is) that she isn't Robert Generic, who was like a bad parody of a Tory leader.

    Actually listening to her at PMQs, I'd say she isn't as bad as the media want to make out - some of her lines of attack are quite good, and all Starmer can generally come back with is "why didn't your lot fix it during the last 14 years", which would have been a problem for any Tory leader - and the potency of which will steadily fade.
    Oh I don't know. Liam Byne's note ran at least until the tail end of Johnson.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668
    edited December 13
    Cookie said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    Anybody who goes into a shop knows inflation is not dropping , quite the opposite.
    Really? I watch prices in Tesco and Sainsburys like a hawk, these being the biggest part of my outgoings. My view is that there was a steep rise in prices which coincided with the end of covid/start of Ukraine, which stabilised (i.e. food inflation dropped back to about zero) after about 16 months (i.e. about a year ago) and that prices ha e in anything dipped since then. Supermarket food prices are still higher thanin 2020, but my perception is that food price inflation is downwards.

    Restauarant food prices may still be increasing, but that forms a much smaller part of my experience. Even here, the impression I get is that these have stabilised lately.
    On the hospitality side, customers can't wear more expensive prices, so we are stuck. By and large, it isn't sustainable - chiefly because of energy prices and rent. Hospitality businesses are generally losing money at the money and hoping that something changes before they are forced to close. The "something" is either the VAT regime, and/or electricity/gas prices.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    edited December 13

    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
    The last government was complete crap, and deserved to lose.

    The problem is, so is this one.
    Not complete crap.

    Covid vaccines
    Energy subsidies
    NI cuts

    were three things done well IMO.

    But there was still plenty of crap to go with the sleaze and self-obsession.

    They did deserve to lose.
    The NI cuts are why this Government are in the mess they are in - so I wouldn’t say they did 3 things well.

    Equally the energy approach cost a fortune and didn’t solve much
    The NI cuts were matched by income tax threshold freezes.

    And the energy approach kept the economy and society going in 2022/23 while still encouraging greater energy efficiency.
    No they weren’t. The fiscal freeze was in the spring 2021 budget, the NI cuts in 2023.

    And the NI cuts were based on spending cuts that were announced but not even looked at let alone implemented.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    About 200 GW?
    But it's an energy storage issue as well. That hasn't been developed properly yet.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
    MPs pay is almost three times the average voters pay, plus expenses, so plenty will still want to do it

    Even if many KCs and investment bankers and company directors who might have considered it in the past can't be bothered to take the pay cut as well as social media abuse now
    But you need people who can earn ten times that - if you want the best. To make it worth enduring the social media abuse.

    Or you could better protect them with some meaningful policing of the bile spewed on social media.

    I still wouldn't be an MP for all the tea in China.

    Maybe we should just select people to be MPs/Lords for a one year stint. Make it like jury service. Choose to sit for a party or as a crossbencher.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    Reading today’s headline, I do think there’s a case for passing an Act of Attainder against Prince Andrew.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
    MPs pay is almost three times the average voters pay, plus expenses, so plenty will still want to do it

    Even if many KCs and investment bankers and company directors who might have considered it in the past can't be bothered to take the pay cut as well as social media abuse now
    But you need people who can earn ten times that - if you want the best. To make it worth enduring the social media abuse.

    Or you could better protect them with some meaningful policing of the bile spewed on social media.

    I still wouldn't be an MP for all the tea in China.

    Maybe we should just select people to be MPs/Lords for a one year stint. Make it like jury service. Choose to sit for a party or as a crossbencher.
    Good enough for Athens.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    The rot started when The Clown purged anyone who did not agree with his cynical conversion to the Brexit cause. It essentially removed a large part of the more credible part of the Conservative Party so that it is now a shadow of its former self and a kind of Reform-Lite. I am inclined to think the party is doomed, though the incompetence of Toolmakerson and the Complaints Support Manager just might offer a glimmer of hope for them.
    The rot started a generation before that. The calibre of Conservative MP’s (as with MP’s generally, and journalists), is far worse than 30-40 years ago.
    Who would become an MP? It's a shit, pretty poorly paid job.
    MPs pay is almost three times the average voters pay, plus expenses, so plenty will still want to do it

    Even if many KCs and investment bankers and company directors who might have considered it in the past can't be bothered to take the pay cut as well as social media abuse now
    Yep - some people will earn less than an MP does but if you want clever people being MPs you need to pay them roughly what they could earn elsewhere and it’s not difficult (if you are half bright) to earn more money than an MP
This discussion has been closed.