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What is it about British party leaders and sandwiches? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,036
    For those who want a better understanding of the politics of American health care, let me recommend this Megan McArdle column: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/12/12/united-health-care-shooting/

    Sample: 'Oh, sure, Americans tell Gallup pollsters that the system is terrible — only 31 percent have a positive view of our health-care industry. But 92 percent of people in this country have insurance (and of the remaining uninsured, about one-third are noncitizens). Insured Americans are quite satisfied with their own coverage, with 81 percent telling KFF that it is “excellent” or “good.”

    In an Ipsos survey of 28 countries in 2023, Americans ranked near the top in saying the quality of their health care was “good” or “very good,” and were in the middle of the pack when asked whether they were satisfied with their government’s health-care policies — ahead of France, Sweden and Britain.'
    (Links omitted.)

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited December 13

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    Is Starmer actually a choice ?

    I suspect he might make way for someone else to give Labour a chance in 2029.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ...

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    Is Starmer actually a choice ?

    I suspect he might make way for someone else to give Labour a chance in 2029.

    Reeves?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    Nah, they'd really have to fuck up to come up behind Germany. In a disastrous manner.
    You cant rule that out.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    ...

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    Is Starmer actually a choice ?

    I suspect he might make way for someone else to give Labour a chance in 2029.

    Reeves?
    Jeremy Corbyn - he polls better.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Speaking of Syria, it hasn’t taken long for the mask to slip

    Murdering Christians

    Ordering women into hijabs

    Smashing up all alcohol

    Jolani says he will impose sharia by force if necessary

    All female judges dismissed in Aleppo

    https://x.com/dd_geopolitics/status/1867210529259074025?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    One perspective:

    https://x.com/raniakhalek/status/1866901180787360007?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “A friend in Latakia tells me they're very scared by what they're seeing.

    Since yesterday heavily armed men, including some foreigners speaking languages they've never heard before, have been parading through and patrolling the streets.

    These men are behaving like religious extremists. They are shouting at unveiled women and demanding they wear a hijab. They are asking with hostility any men and women who walk together if they are married or not. There is no more alcohol, shops that have alcohol have been vandalized, burned and closed.

    "Latakia and Tartous have never been Islamic cities and this is very dangerous for them because the majority is Alawis and Christians," says my friend.

    Still, some of the armed men are trying to comfort people. HTS guys are insisting everything will be fine and fair in the future, people just need to wait. But it feels like a massive gaslight as people are afraid by what they see as a rapidly changing Syria they don't recognize and perhaps don't have a place in.

    There are also complaints about the media portraying everything as rosy and free when people feel a different kind of scared under these emerging authorities.

    My friend did not want this attributed to their name out of fear. Reminds me of the old Syria.”

    Was is ever going to be any different. We traded a secularish tyrant for Islamists and terrorists. The best case scenario is an Egypt style government, the worst case is Afghanistan.
    This is why many of us on PB weren’t “celebrating” the fall of Assad - unlike others. It was grimly satisfying seeing him go, shame they couldn’t try him and execute him; but it was obvious that what would follow could easily be worse

    I suspect it will be worse

    The leader Jolani is a serious Islamist, ISIS-style, a genuine believer. He will impose strict sharia law. Around him are people even more extreme

    The result will be closer to Afghanistan than Egypt, with one difference, Afghanistan is remote and it can be ignored, Syria is pivotally placed in the MENA and it borders Israel and NATO

    It will suck in jihadis and export trouble
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    It's not a promise it's an ambition. You can't promise things that are to a large extent outside your control.

    That said, if we don't manage mid-table or above it will probably make getting reelected quite difficult.

    Early days though. Esp with all that's happening in the world.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080
    Con hold in Essex but big swing to Reform.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    Nah, they'd really have to fuck up to come up behind Germany. In a disastrous manner.
    I reckon they can do it. They’ve got it in them. They’re got all the right instincts and they’ve made a promising start, plunging us into insta-recession

    C’mon Rache and Kier, you can do it. Give us the WORST ECONOMY IN THE G7
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    ...

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    Is Starmer actually a choice ?

    I suspect he might make way for someone else to give Labour a chance in 2029.

    Reeves?
    Iron lady.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kinabalu said:

    ...

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    Is Starmer actually a choice ?

    I suspect he might make way for someone else to give Labour a chance in 2029.

    Reeves?
    Iron lady.
    Rachel from Accounts
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Speaking of Syria, it hasn’t taken long for the mask to slip

    Murdering Christians

    Ordering women into hijabs

    Smashing up all alcohol

    Jolani says he will impose sharia by force if necessary

    All female judges dismissed in Aleppo

    https://x.com/dd_geopolitics/status/1867210529259074025?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    One perspective:

    https://x.com/raniakhalek/status/1866901180787360007?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “A friend in Latakia tells me they're very scared by what they're seeing.

    Since yesterday heavily armed men, including some foreigners speaking languages they've never heard before, have been parading through and patrolling the streets.

    These men are behaving like religious extremists. They are shouting at unveiled women and demanding they wear a hijab. They are asking with hostility any men and women who walk together if they are married or not. There is no more alcohol, shops that have alcohol have been vandalized, burned and closed.

    "Latakia and Tartous have never been Islamic cities and this is very dangerous for them because the majority is Alawis and Christians," says my friend.

    Still, some of the armed men are trying to comfort people. HTS guys are insisting everything will be fine and fair in the future, people just need to wait. But it feels like a massive gaslight as people are afraid by what they see as a rapidly changing Syria they don't recognize and perhaps don't have a place in.

    There are also complaints about the media portraying everything as rosy and free when people feel a different kind of scared under these emerging authorities.

    My friend did not want this attributed to their name out of fear. Reminds me of the old Syria.”

    Was is ever going to be any different. We traded a secularish tyrant for Islamists and terrorists. The best case scenario is an Egypt style government, the worst case is Afghanistan.
    This is why many of us on PB weren’t “celebrating” the fall of Assad - unlike others. It was grimly satisfying seeing him go, shame they couldn’t try him and execute him; but it was obvious that what would follow could easily be worse

    I suspect it will be worse

    The leader Jolani is a serious Islamist, ISIS-style, a genuine believer. He will impose strict sharia law. Around him are people even more extreme

    The result will be closer to Afghanistan than Egypt, with one difference, Afghanistan is remote and it can be ignored, Syria is pivotally placed in the MENA and it borders Israel and NATO

    It will suck in jihadis and export trouble
    I suspect it will be better.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Speaking of Syria, it hasn’t taken long for the mask to slip

    Murdering Christians

    Ordering women into hijabs

    Smashing up all alcohol

    Jolani says he will impose sharia by force if necessary

    All female judges dismissed in Aleppo

    https://x.com/dd_geopolitics/status/1867210529259074025?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    One perspective:

    https://x.com/raniakhalek/status/1866901180787360007?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “A friend in Latakia tells me they're very scared by what they're seeing.

    Since yesterday heavily armed men, including some foreigners speaking languages they've never heard before, have been parading through and patrolling the streets.

    These men are behaving like religious extremists. They are shouting at unveiled women and demanding they wear a hijab. They are asking with hostility any men and women who walk together if they are married or not. There is no more alcohol, shops that have alcohol have been vandalized, burned and closed.

    "Latakia and Tartous have never been Islamic cities and this is very dangerous for them because the majority is Alawis and Christians," says my friend.

    Still, some of the armed men are trying to comfort people. HTS guys are insisting everything will be fine and fair in the future, people just need to wait. But it feels like a massive gaslight as people are afraid by what they see as a rapidly changing Syria they don't recognize and perhaps don't have a place in.

    There are also complaints about the media portraying everything as rosy and free when people feel a different kind of scared under these emerging authorities.

    My friend did not want this attributed to their name out of fear. Reminds me of the old Syria.”

    Was is ever going to be any different. We traded a secularish tyrant for Islamists and terrorists. The best case scenario is an Egypt style government, the worst case is Afghanistan.
    This is why many of us on PB weren’t “celebrating” the fall of Assad - unlike others. It was grimly satisfying seeing him go, shame they couldn’t try him and execute him; but it was obvious that what would follow could easily be worse

    I suspect it will be worse

    The leader Jolani is a serious Islamist, ISIS-style, a genuine believer. He will impose strict sharia law. Around him are people even more extreme

    The result will be closer to Afghanistan than Egypt, with one difference, Afghanistan is remote and it can be ignored, Syria is pivotally placed in the MENA and it borders Israel and NATO

    It will suck in jihadis and export trouble
    Indeed the idiotic euphoria in some circles was very grating on the day and now it's going to be replaced by a blame game with those same celebrating people aiming at those of us who said this might not be a great development for either the people of Syria or western nations. Somehow it will be our fault.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    She certainly does. And it's not easy to see how.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    There is a noticeable lack of enthusiasm from the PB Lefties. No more "competent government " or "adults in the room " posts.

    I said pre election that the biggest problem would be Starmer had next to zero scrutiny and that not taking positions would come to bite him in the arse. The omerta approach was great for getting elected and terrible for government. It's now quite clear that Starmer had no real plan for government he's just started doing the groundwork now.
    Your first paragraph is fair and I'm in that 'PB lefties' camp - it's not the start I'd have hoped for. Underwhelming at best, a lot of unforced errors.

    Still, time is on Starmer's side, let's see how things look in a couple of years.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Speaking of Syria, it hasn’t taken long for the mask to slip

    Murdering Christians

    Ordering women into hijabs

    Smashing up all alcohol

    Jolani says he will impose sharia by force if necessary

    All female judges dismissed in Aleppo

    https://x.com/dd_geopolitics/status/1867210529259074025?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    One perspective:

    https://x.com/raniakhalek/status/1866901180787360007?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “A friend in Latakia tells me they're very scared by what they're seeing.

    Since yesterday heavily armed men, including some foreigners speaking languages they've never heard before, have been parading through and patrolling the streets.

    These men are behaving like religious extremists. They are shouting at unveiled women and demanding they wear a hijab. They are asking with hostility any men and women who walk together if they are married or not. There is no more alcohol, shops that have alcohol have been vandalized, burned and closed.

    "Latakia and Tartous have never been Islamic cities and this is very dangerous for them because the majority is Alawis and Christians," says my friend.

    Still, some of the armed men are trying to comfort people. HTS guys are insisting everything will be fine and fair in the future, people just need to wait. But it feels like a massive gaslight as people are afraid by what they see as a rapidly changing Syria they don't recognize and perhaps don't have a place in.

    There are also complaints about the media portraying everything as rosy and free when people feel a different kind of scared under these emerging authorities.

    My friend did not want this attributed to their name out of fear. Reminds me of the old Syria.”

    Was is ever going to be any different. We traded a secularish tyrant for Islamists and terrorists. The best case scenario is an Egypt style government, the worst case is Afghanistan.
    This is why many of us on PB weren’t “celebrating” the fall of Assad - unlike others. It was grimly satisfying seeing him go, shame they couldn’t try him and execute him; but it was obvious that what would follow could easily be worse

    I suspect it will be worse

    The leader Jolani is a serious Islamist, ISIS-style, a genuine believer. He will impose strict sharia law. Around him are people even more extreme

    The result will be closer to Afghanistan than Egypt, with one difference, Afghanistan is remote and it can be ignored, Syria is pivotally placed in the MENA and it borders Israel and NATO

    It will suck in jihadis and export trouble
    Indeed the idiotic euphoria in some circles was very grating on the day and now it's going to be replaced by a blame game with those same celebrating people aiming at those of us who said this might not be a great development for either the people of Syria or western nations. Somehow it will be our fault.
    I hereby promise to never say anything in Syria is your fault, Max.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    The G7 growth thing was, it turns out, neither a promise nor an ambition, it was greater and more religious than that: a mission. A spiritual commitment and a lifelong vow



    Labour’s five missions to rebuild Britain

    1) Kickstart economic growth
    to secure the highest sustained growth in the G7 – with good jobs and productivity growth in every part of the country making everyone, not just a few, better off.


    Still, the joy of missions is that they feel mystical and vague, so just a couple of word changes:


    Labour’s five missions to retard Britain

    1) Fuck any economic growth
    to secure the lowest sustained growth in the G7 – with poor jobs and productivity declines in every part of the country making everyone, not just a few, worse off.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 13

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    ..

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    Yup, she's utter Brexit.
    Your constantly stepping up to the crease for this Government is notable and odd. You often state that you're a Tory, and we have the worst Labour Government of all time, loathed by every shade of Tory from uber-remainers like Jeremy Clarkson to uber-leavers like Rees Mogg. Yet you reach straight for a prickly retort when someone accuses Reeves of being a shite Chancellor.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Leon said:

    The G7 growth thing was, it turns out, neither a promise nor an ambition, it was greater and more religious than that: a mission. A spiritual commitment and a lifelong vow



    Labour’s five missions to rebuild Britain

    1) Kickstart economic growth
    to secure the highest sustained growth in the G7 – with good jobs and productivity growth in every part of the country making everyone, not just a few, better off.


    Still, the joy of missions is that they feel mystical and vague, so just a couple of word changes:


    Labour’s five missions to retard Britain

    1) Fuck any economic growth
    to secure the lowest sustained growth in the G7 – with poor jobs and productivity declines in every part of the country making everyone, not just a few, worse off.

    Truly, what a word-wizard you are - amazing how you managed to tweak that. Unbelievable.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    She's the soggy tomato in the Mother's Pride sandwich.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Is this Lily Philips or "The Hundred" lol :D
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,897

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    Yes, she risks being the tuna mayo pressed between two converging slices of bread.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited December 13

    ..

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    Yup, she's utter Brexit.
    Your constantly stepping up to the crease for this Government is notable and odd. You often state that you're a Tory, and we have the worst Labour Government of all time, loathed by every shade of Tory from uber-remainers like Jeremy Clarkson to uber-leavers like Rees Mogg. Yet you reach straight for a prickly retort when someone accuses Reeves of being a shite Chancellor.
    She is a shite Chancellor, I’ve said so.

    This is a shite government.

    What I’ve said is very rarely are elections decided four and a half years out.

    1997 was the exception (Black Wednesday did for the Tories.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited December 13
    Local by-election

    "Chelmsford- South Hanningfield

    Con 838 81.3%
    Grn 72 7.3
    LD 70 6.8
    Lab 48 4.7"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19240/local-council-elections-12th-december?page=10
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,760
    kinabalu said:

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    She certainly does. And it's not easy to see how.
    Be less fucking weird. Give the immigration shit a rest because she's largely responsible for the current mega levels in the eyes of the voters. The ridiculous culture wars bollocks is hard to calibrate for maximum electoral effect and the Kemster is not a Farage level talent that can pull that off. So leave that alone as well to the extent that her evident mania for it will allow.

    The best bet would be to try to turn some Fukker scum to tory scum by going full climate change denier and linking high energy prices to cozzie livs and the economy.

    Jenrick would have been far better at all of the above but the tories new found love of identity politics has shackled them to this gurning, double-glazed aberration.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Is this Lily Philips or "The Hundred" lol :D
    I think those in the hundred are complete low lives. And the lot with that girl aren't much better.

    (I'm suspect that story is bollocks, but she's now famous, so yay...)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Is this Lily Philips or "The Hundred" lol :D
    My wife and I saw her post-coital interview and it was absolutely soil crushing. She's crying all the way through it talking about the experience and repeating empty sound bites about it being empowering but the emotion on her face is one of self-loathing and disgust. I feel sorry for her and I hope that she goes to a psychiatrist and works through whatever mental health issues she has.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,897
    I don't have that much sympathy for Badenoch, who has largely brought this on herself by having bizarrely forthright opinions on every subject, however trivial.
    However, I do wonder if there isn't a bit of othering going on here, as there was I think too with Miliband and his bacon sandwich. Labour should stay away from this - not that they'll get punished for it because their political opponents don't think this kind of thing is real - but because it's wrong. No more "great British sandwich" dogwhistles, please.
  • Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Is this Lily Philips or "The Hundred" lol :D
    She’s from Sheffield.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    About 200 GW?
    Which has to be completely rebuilt in 30 years time, from the ground/seabed up.

    And all the contracts renegotiated.

    Or you could build tidal lagoon power stations that will last 180 years.With sinking funds to replace turbines at years 60 and 120.

    180 years of the certainty of the tides, versus...?
    The tidal lagoons wouldn't provide enough storage to help out with wind and tidal intermittency, IIRC. The more I read about them the less I'm convinced tbh.
    Why would you need that ?
    Tidal intermittency would be easily addressed with batteries, so tidal plus storage could be pretty reliable baseload. The only real issue is cost.
    If you site your tidal ponds sensibly, they “cover” each other - the storage extends the generating period - because the tide times vary around the U.K.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    Leon said:

    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Despicable that the likes of Jessop and Nigel B are absolutely fine to visit this upon Syria when they would never tolerate living like this.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    ...

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    Is Starmer actually a choice ?

    I suspect he might make way for someone else to give Labour a chance in 2029.

    Reeves?
    Jeremy Corbyn - he polls better.
    Of course. I misremembered the infamous Corbyn landslide.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Is this Lily Philips or "The Hundred" lol :D
    My wife and I saw her post-coital interview and it was absolutely soil crushing. She's crying all the way through it talking about the experience and repeating empty sound bites about it being empowering but the emotion on her face is one of self-loathing and disgust. I feel sorry for her and I hope that she goes to a psychiatrist and works through whatever mental health issues she has.
    If it's genuine (I don't think it is), what's to stop her now going to the police saying she wasn't in a fit state to consent?

    Any man participating in something like that is an idiot as well as anything else.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Is this Lily Philips or "The Hundred" lol :D
    My wife and I saw her post-coital interview and it was absolutely soil crushing. She's crying all the way through it talking about the experience and repeating empty sound bites about it being empowering but the emotion on her face is one of self-loathing and disgust. I feel sorry for her and I hope that she goes to a psychiatrist and works through whatever mental health issues she has.
    If it's genuine (I don't think it is), what's to stop her now going to the police saying she wasn't in a fit state to consent?

    Any man participating in something like that is an idiot as well as anything else.
    I mean they have signed agreements which count as consent. But agree that any man taking part is absolute scum to the highest degree. Taking advantage of someone's personal misery like that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 13
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Is this Lily Philips or "The Hundred" lol :D
    My wife and I saw her post-coital interview and it was absolutely soil crushing. She's crying all the way through it talking about the experience and repeating empty sound bites about it being empowering but the emotion on her face is one of self-loathing and disgust. I feel sorry for her and I hope that she goes to a psychiatrist and works through whatever mental health issues she has.
    If it's genuine (I don't think it is), what's to stop her now going to the police saying she wasn't in a fit state to consent?

    Any man participating in something like that is an idiot as well as anything else.
    She's planning on "the thousand" which is going to be a decent logistics challenge for everyone involved, and will require quite some planning.

    She's making good money from it all...
  • edited December 13
    kinabalu said:

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    She certainly does. And it's not easy to see how.
    The tests will come after local elections, will Reform allow their councillors to go into coalition with Conservatives, Lib Dems, Labour ???

    You will know Labour are desperate if they allow such coalitions, and Reform for that matter.

    I can see Labour propping up LDs to keep Reform and Cons out but deadly for the LDs to do that. I can imagine a council where the Cons might be short of a majority, will they go into coalition with Reform or the LDs, or will the LDs Labour and Reform work to exclude the Cons ? It has been choices like these which have made France what it is today
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Speaking of Syria, it hasn’t taken long for the mask to slip

    Murdering Christians

    Ordering women into hijabs

    Smashing up all alcohol

    Jolani says he will impose sharia by force if necessary

    All female judges dismissed in Aleppo

    https://x.com/dd_geopolitics/status/1867210529259074025?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    One perspective:

    https://x.com/raniakhalek/status/1866901180787360007?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “A friend in Latakia tells me they're very scared by what they're seeing.

    Since yesterday heavily armed men, including some foreigners speaking languages they've never heard before, have been parading through and patrolling the streets.

    These men are behaving like religious extremists. They are shouting at unveiled women and demanding they wear a hijab. They are asking with hostility any men and women who walk together if they are married or not. There is no more alcohol, shops that have alcohol have been vandalized, burned and closed.

    "Latakia and Tartous have never been Islamic cities and this is very dangerous for them because the majority is Alawis and Christians," says my friend.

    Still, some of the armed men are trying to comfort people. HTS guys are insisting everything will be fine and fair in the future, people just need to wait. But it feels like a massive gaslight as people are afraid by what they see as a rapidly changing Syria they don't recognize and perhaps don't have a place in.

    There are also complaints about the media portraying everything as rosy and free when people feel a different kind of scared under these emerging authorities.

    My friend did not want this attributed to their name out of fear. Reminds me of the old Syria.”

    Was is ever going to be any different. We traded a secularish tyrant for Islamists and terrorists. The best case scenario is an Egypt style government, the worst case is Afghanistan.
    This is why many of us on PB weren’t “celebrating” the fall of Assad - unlike others. It was grimly satisfying seeing him go, shame they couldn’t try him and execute him; but it was obvious that what would follow could easily be worse

    I suspect it will be worse

    The leader Jolani is a serious Islamist, ISIS-style, a genuine believer. He will impose strict sharia law. Around him are people even more extreme

    The result will be closer to Afghanistan than Egypt, with one difference, Afghanistan is remote and it can be ignored, Syria is pivotally placed in the MENA and it borders Israel and NATO

    It will suck in jihadis and export trouble
    Maybe we need to end the taboo about changing international borders and let Syria be partitioned by its neighbours.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    edited December 13
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    She certainly does. And it's not easy to see how.
    Be less fucking weird. Give the immigration shit a rest because she's largely responsible for the current mega levels in the eyes of the voters. The ridiculous culture wars bollocks is hard to calibrate for maximum electoral effect and the Kemster is not a Farage level talent that can pull that off. So leave that alone as well to the extent that her evident mania for it will allow.

    The best bet would be to try to turn some Fukker scum to tory scum by going full climate change denier and linking high energy prices to cozzie livs and the economy.

    Jenrick would have been far better at all of the above but the tories new found love of identity politics has shackled them to this gurning, double-glazed aberration.
    Rather off-putting persona, though, Jenrick. They managed to get themselves a pretty grim final two. I fear for the future of the Grand Old Conservative and Unionist Party if they don't get the next steps right (not that I can truly say what they are). Johnson/Truss have really done a number on them.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    Yes, it was the principle of the idea I was asking about.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    ..

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    Yup, she's utter Brexit.
    Your constantly stepping up to the crease for this Government is notable and odd. You often state that you're a Tory, and we have the worst Labour Government of all time, loathed by every shade of Tory from uber-remainers like Jeremy Clarkson to uber-leavers like Rees Mogg. Yet you reach straight for a prickly retort when someone accuses Reeves of being a shite Chancellor.
    She is a shite Chancellor, I’ve said so.

    This is a shite government.

    What I’ve said is very rarely are elections decided four and a half years out.

    1997 was the exception (Black Wednesday did for the Tories.)
    The thing about this government is that they looked like they may be competent but as soon as they stepped onto the stage it’s like they’ve got stage fright and forgotten absolutely everything.

    Now I don’t know what the cause of that is but it’s not good and they haven’t even be bright enough to know that things done now will be forgotten about in 4 years time provided things look better a- so they could have implemented the essential tax increases now
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Andy_JS said:

    Local by-election

    "Chelmsford- South Hanningfield

    Con 838 81.3%
    Grn 72 7.3
    LD 70 6.8
    Lab 48 4.7"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19240/local-council-elections-12th-december?page=10

    More importantly the Tories have held the Stock county council seat and seen off the Reform threat in the other local by election there.

    Labour collapsed to fifth
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1867558160825036962
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Leon said:

    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    No dungeons from Assad's regime now but Sharia law instead. Though at least the new regime isn't ISIS
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    Leon said:

    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Despicable that the likes of Jessop and Nigel B are absolutely fine to visit this upon Syria when they would never tolerate living like this.
    That makes as much sense as accusing you of raising a glass to Assad's torture chambers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    edited December 13

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    Leon said:

    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Despicable that the likes of Jessop and Nigel B are absolutely fine to visit this upon Syria when they would never tolerate living like this.
    Struggling to keep up, weren't you both demanding that all Syrian refugees be immediately returned 2-3 days ago.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewll B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    What you say is true, but not new.
    Did you view the video and understand what he was getting at?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,760
    One thing for which I will credit SKS is that he shut down Operation Shader. For the first time since 1991 the UK is not bombing the Middle East.

    RAF Akrotiri remains of vital importance for the defence of the airspace around RAF Akrotiri.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    The G7 member whose GDP growth is most at risk is... drumroll... Canada.

    Should Trump impose his proposed 25% tariffs on them, then they would be absolutely walloped. I would expect them to perform extremely poorly, a 2-4% recession would hardly be unexpected.

    And should Trump succeed in pushing energy prices down (which is far from a given, but let's go with it for a second), then the biggest beneficiaries would be the G7 countries who are the biggest net energy importers: Italy and Japan. (And Canada, which is large energy exporter, would again be hammered.)

    So, I wouldn't take any of the economic growth forecasts for 2025 too seriously, because what the new US administration does or doesn't do is going to play a massive role.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    About 200 GW?
    Which has to be completely rebuilt in 30 years time, from the ground/seabed up.

    And all the contracts renegotiated.

    Or you could build tidal lagoon power stations that will last 180 years.With sinking funds to replace turbines at years 60 and 120.

    180 years of the certainty of the tides, versus...?
    The tidal lagoons wouldn't provide enough storage to help out with wind and tidal intermittency, IIRC. The more I read about them the less I'm convinced tbh.
    Why would you need that ?
    Tidal intermittency would be easily addressed with batteries, so tidal plus storage could be pretty reliable baseload. The only real issue is cost.
    If you site your tidal ponds sensibly, they “cover” each other - the storage extends the generating period - because the tide times vary around the U.K.
    Going to be some minds blown around here.
    But it's OK, the "it doesn't solve the problem entirely mob" have already rushed in to kill it. Just imagine how much better off we could all be if it was accepted that there isn't a single solution but that combining energy saving (insulation), storage, solar, wind and tidal could solve a large part of it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    Leon said:

    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Despicable that the likes of Jessop and Nigel B are absolutely fine to visit this upon Syria when they would never tolerate living like this.
    Yes, comrade.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    The worst part is that sometimes they're not even sunny high pressure systems. "Dankelflute"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Dopermean said:

    Leon said:

    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Despicable that the likes of Jessop and Nigel B are absolutely fine to visit this upon Syria when they would never tolerate living like this.
    Struggling to keep up, weren't you both demanding that all Syrian refugees be immediately returned 2-3 days ago.
    Yeah, and I still am. Back they go
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    It's OK to rely on natural gas during periods of low renewables generation! It's clean, it has low capital and maintenance costs, and very large amounts of it can be stored.

    In fact the joy about natural gas is that the dominant part of the cost of electricity generation is the fuel: having plants sitting around only lightly used is isn't a problem. (In this way, it is better than essentially all the alternatives.)

    The UK should embrace gas as a bridge fuel, and remember there is nothing wrong with gas fired power stations only running for a small fraction of the time. (Indeed: in the old days - say 2000 - that was the role of gas. Most electricity generation then was coal or nuclear, and gas was just "peaking plants".)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    There is a noticeable lack of enthusiasm from the PB Lefties. No more "competent government " or "adults in the room " posts.

    I said pre election that the biggest problem would be Starmer had next to zero scrutiny and that not taking positions would come to bite him in the arse. The omerta approach was great for getting elected and terrible for government. It's now quite clear that Starmer had no real plan for government he's just started doing the groundwork now.
    Your first paragraph is fair and I'm in that 'PB lefties' camp - it's not the start I'd have hoped for. Underwhelming at best, a lot of unforced errors.

    Still, time is on Starmer's side, let's see how things look in a couple of years.
    Time is not on Starmer's side. He now has four and a half years to build 1,5 million houses not five. None of his plans are much off the ground and Reeves is tanking the economy.

    What he has got on his side is he's an slippy bugger and will quite happily sacrifice his colleagues to save his own neck. He currently has a front bench full of duds Reeves, Lammy, Miliband, Cooper, Reed., Philipson. At some point there must be some up and coming talent to replace the numpties. That might give him a mid term boost.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    edited December 13

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewll B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    What you say is true, but not new.
    Did you view the video and understand what he was getting at?
    We don't have solar to the degree they do in the deserts of California. What we do have though is a tidal range resource that the US does not.

    The US still produces far more power than we do to start with. We simply don’t generate enough power. Per capita electricity generation in the UK is just two thirds of that in France: 4,800 kilowatt-hours per head versus 7,300 in France. In the US it is 12,762. The US is already much nearer to being ble to provide pwoer in that sweet spot.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited December 13

    ...

    At present, British politics is starting to be framed as a binary choice between Starmer and Farage.

    Kemi needs to breakout of that. Fast.

    Is Starmer actually a choice ?

    I suspect he might make way for someone else to give Labour a chance in 2029.

    Reeves?
    Jeremy Corbyn - he polls better.
    Of course. I misremembered the infamous Corbyn landslide.
    If Corbyn had a split opposition like SKS he would have a bigger majority.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Are we allowed to assume that Shecorns88 is female?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    Dopermean said:

    Leon said:

    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Despicable that the likes of Jessop and Nigel B are absolutely fine to visit this upon Syria when they would never tolerate living like this.
    Struggling to keep up, weren't you both demanding that all Syrian refugees be immediately returned 2-3 days ago.
    Given that they were the ones who left because they wanted to establish this sort of Government, I see no inconsistency.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    edited December 13
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    It's OK to rely on natural gas during periods of low renewables generation! It's clean, it has low capital and maintenance costs, and very large amounts of it can be stored.

    In fact the joy about natural gas is that the dominant part of the cost of electricity generation is the fuel: having plants sitting around only lightly used is isn't a problem. (In this way, it is better than essentially all the alternatives.)

    The UK should embrace gas as a bridge fuel, and remember there is nothing wrong with gas fired power stations only running for a small fraction of the time. (Indeed: in the old days - say 2000 - that was the role of gas. Most electricity generation then was coal or nuclear, and gas was just "peaking plants".)
    Except, to Miliband, they are still the work of the Devil...

    And the point about tidal is that it doesn't suffer the periods of low generation that come with both solar and wind.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    edited December 13

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    It's OK to rely on natural gas during periods of low renewables generation! It's clean, it has low capital and maintenance costs, and very large amounts of it can be stored.

    In fact the joy about natural gas is that the dominant part of the cost of electricity generation is the fuel: having plants sitting around only lightly used is isn't a problem. (In this way, it is better than essentially all the alternatives.)

    The UK should embrace gas as a bridge fuel, and remember there is nothing wrong with gas fired power stations only running for a small fraction of the time. (Indeed: in the old days - say 2000 - that was the role of gas. Most electricity generation then was coal or nuclear, and gas was just "peaking plants".)
    Except, to Miliband, they are still the work of the Devil...
    The problem there is that Miliband isn’t that bright

    Solar, wind, nuclear and gas form a sane energy plan with storage / tidal possibly added to the mix
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Yes, last night. Makes you question whether libertarianism is a good thing after all.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    .
    Andy_JS said:

    Are we allowed to assume that Shecorns88 is female?

    You aren’t allowed to assume anyone’s gender.

    Off to re-education with you.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Andy_JS said:

    Are we allowed to assume that Shecorns88 is female?

    We await the pronoun
  • Andy_JS said:

    Are we allowed to assume that Shecorns88 is female?

    What, like Holly the computer in Red Dwarf ? You are presuming a lot there.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Yes, last night. Makes you question whether libertarianism is a good thing after all.
    OnlyFans is the future of the British economy. Starmer should be arranging a photo op with Lily Phillips.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewll B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    What you say is true, but not new.
    Did you view the video and understand what he was getting at?
    We don't have solar to the degree they do in the deserts of California. What we do have though is a tidal range resource that the US does not.

    The US still produces far more power than we do to start with. We simply don’t generate enough power. Per capita electricity generation in the UK is just two thirds of that in France: 4,800 kilowatt-hours per head versus 7,300 in France. In the US it is 12,762. The US is already much nearer to being ble to provide pwoer in that sweet spot.
    While that's true (and you should declare an interest here @MarqueeMark), solar panel pricing is rapidly heading towards zero. This means that new warehouses and shopping centers and car parks and office and residential buildings are going to end up covered in solar, simply because if you're doing building work anyway, then adding solar is going to be essentially free.

    That means that the price of energy during summer and during sunny periods is heading to zero. Which is what hammers the forecasts for people talking about (say) tidal barrages, because you have to expect that for half the year, the power you produce is going to be largely valueless.

    That said tidal is far from the worst economic proposition: HPC manages to win that one by a country mile. We have to pay massive amounts for power from there, even when the grid won't need it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Yes, last night. Makes you question whether libertarianism is a good thing after all.
    OnlyFans is the future of the British economy. Starmer should be arranging a photo op with Lily Phillips.
    Will she be paying Employer NI on her income generated ?
  • Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    There is a noticeable lack of enthusiasm from the PB Lefties. No more "competent government " or "adults in the room " posts.

    I said pre election that the biggest problem would be Starmer had next to zero scrutiny and that not taking positions would come to bite him in the arse. The omerta approach was great for getting elected and terrible for government. It's now quite clear that Starmer had no real plan for government he's just started doing the groundwork now.
    Your first paragraph is fair and I'm in that 'PB lefties' camp - it's not the start I'd have hoped for. Underwhelming at best, a lot of unforced errors.

    Still, time is on Starmer's side, let's see how things look in a couple of years.
    Time is not on Starmer's side. He now has four and a half years to build 1,5 million houses not five. None of his plans are much off the ground and Reeves is tanking the economy.

    What he has got on his side is he's an slippy bugger and will quite happily sacrifice his colleagues to save his own neck. He currently has a front bench full of duds Reeves, Lammy, Miliband, Cooper, Reed., Philipson. At some point there must be some up and coming talent to replace the numpties. That might give him a mid term boost.
    And where pray is this talent pool ? Is he going to get them voted in in by-elections ? apart from Dale Campbell Savours' son the backbenchers don't seem to have a brain cell between them.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Here we go. The poor women of Syria


    “Abu Muhammad AlJolani orders a girl to cover her hair in Damascus.

    Abu Muhammad AlJolani believes that Sharia law must be implemented in Syria through lslamic Dawah and those who resist Dawah will be punished!”

    https://x.com/azatalsalim/status/1867562095371289031?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    No dungeons from Assad's regime now but Sharia law instead. Though at least the new regime isn't ISIS
    I note that Syria is not entirely controlled by HTS. There are at least 5 groups in control of significant territory.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited December 13
    Kemi needs to cut the bullshit and start getting serious.

    It's not like she doesn't have a plenty to attack this government over...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    Nah, they'd really have to fuck up to come up behind Germany. In a disastrous manner.
    I reckon they can do it. They’ve got it in them. They’re got all the right instincts and they’ve made a promising start, plunging us into insta-recession

    C’mon Rache and Kier, you can do it. Give us the WORST ECONOMY IN THE G7
    It's been downgraded to an aspiration...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    GIN1138 said:

    Kemi needs to cut the bullshit and start getting serious.

    Not capable
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    It's OK to rely on natural gas during periods of low renewables generation! It's clean, it has low capital and maintenance costs, and very large amounts of it can be stored.

    In fact the joy about natural gas is that the dominant part of the cost of electricity generation is the fuel: having plants sitting around only lightly used is isn't a problem. (In this way, it is better than essentially all the alternatives.)

    The UK should embrace gas as a bridge fuel, and remember there is nothing wrong with gas fired power stations only running for a small fraction of the time. (Indeed: in the old days - say 2000 - that was the role of gas. Most electricity generation then was coal or nuclear, and gas was just "peaking plants".)
    Except, to Miliband, they are still the work of the Devil...
    The problem there is that Miliband isn’t that bright

    Solar, wind, nuclear and gas form a sane energy plan with storage / tidal possibly added to the mix
    I struggle with the economic case for nuclear: it has high capital and maintenance costs, and historically has had horrible uptime. It's lack of dispatchability also makes it a very poor fit for a grid with increasing amount of intermittent power.

    I also struggle with our politicians. Over the next decade we could reduce CO2 from power generation about 80% from peak, all while increasing the share of electric vehicles on the road. It would be an incredible achievement, and could be done without any negative economic consequences. (Indeed, it may well come with positive ones.)

    Aiming for 100% by an arbitrary date, though, means going from a world where the energy transition is essentially painless to one where it becomes a massive drag on the economy.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    There is a noticeable lack of enthusiasm from the PB Lefties. No more "competent government " or "adults in the room " posts.

    I said pre election that the biggest problem would be Starmer had next to zero scrutiny and that not taking positions would come to bite him in the arse. The omerta approach was great for getting elected and terrible for government. It's now quite clear that Starmer had no real plan for government he's just started doing the groundwork now.
    Your first paragraph is fair and I'm in that 'PB lefties' camp - it's not the start I'd have hoped for. Underwhelming at best, a lot of unforced errors.

    Still, time is on Starmer's side, let's see how things look in a couple of years.
    Time is not on Starmer's side. He now has four and a half years to build 1,5 million houses not five. None of his plans are much off the ground and Reeves is tanking the economy.

    What he has got on his side is he's an slippy bugger and will quite happily sacrifice his colleagues to save his own neck. He currently has a front bench full of duds Reeves, Lammy, Miliband, Cooper, Reed., Philipson. At some point there must be some up and coming talent to replace the numpties. That might give him a mid term boost.
    And where pray is this talent pool ? Is he going to get them voted in in by-elections ? apart from Dale Campbell Savours' son the backbenchers don't seem to have a brain cell between them.
    Well I share your cynicism but surely among 200 or so newbies there must be someone who can piss and chew gum at the same time .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Have we done this?

    https://x.com/ifellonithonest/status/1867194616904355857

    @ifellonithonest Imagine being one of those guys in the 100. Imagine being such a piece of shit that you would take part in something like that. Every one of them is an absolute danger

    https://x.com/PresidentSsc/status/1867262870750474605

    @PresidentSsc
    *Baffled*

    It's not my cup of tea, but it provides a decent income for some fringe county players, and those whose fitness isn't up to playing 50 over or four day matches.

    I'd prefer it not to be part of the summer, but the kids seem to enjoy it

    Yes, last night. Makes you question whether libertarianism is a good thing after all.
    OnlyFans is the future of the British economy. Starmer should be arranging a photo op with Lily Phillips.
    A photo opp? He should be offering himself up as one of the 300 planned for December 15.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    I know (ok, at least I hope) that you are joking about Brook, but Root is certainly the best I’ve watched in my 50+ years watching England.

    But Bradman was something else. For the wanted a couple of runs he would have ended with a three figure average in test cricket. Think on that. Every time he strode to the wicket he’s on for a ton. (I know not outs distort that some, but I doubt he had that many not outs). And for context that’s double Joe Roots average. And I always believe in Joe.
    Bradman never scored a ODI hundred/T20i hundred, his genius was limited to just tests, Brook is an all format player.
    LOL.
    Having played cricket to a decent level in the 70s,80s and early 90s I passionately believe we have to quantify excellence in the pre helmet and covered pitch era and the modern era.

    Uncovered pitches, proper lightweight bats, a box, sausage gloves... Limited sight screens no lights, green wickets and MORE bowlers bowling week in week out at 90mph than we see now.

    Watch Brian Close facing WINDIES quicks bowling 90 mph all day with some carpet inside his shirt.

    Thats batting
    Perhaps I'm misremembering but didn't you tell us that you were born in 1988 ?
    LOL Broken Britain - we cant even get decent trolls any more.
    Don't undersell yourself.
    I have 15 years of hard earned experience on PB

    Did I ever mention Rachel Reeves is really shit ?
    REMEMBER THE PROMISE

    “The highest growth rate in the G7”

    There must be a real chance that under this government we will actually have the LOWEST growth rate in the G7, underperforming even Germany

    That, alone, would condemn them to being a one-term government
    Nah, they'd really have to fuck up to come up behind Germany. In a disastrous manner.
    I reckon they can do it. They’ve got it in them. They’re got all the right instincts and they’ve made a promising start, plunging us into insta-recession

    C’mon Rache and Kier, you can do it. Give us the WORST ECONOMY IN THE G7
    It's been downgraded to an aspiration...
    give it another six months and theyll be saying it was on their Santa list and he didnt deliver it.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    It's OK to rely on natural gas during periods of low renewables generation! It's clean, it has low capital and maintenance costs, and very large amounts of it can be stored.

    In fact the joy about natural gas is that the dominant part of the cost of electricity generation is the fuel: having plants sitting around only lightly used is isn't a problem. (In this way, it is better than essentially all the alternatives.)

    The UK should embrace gas as a bridge fuel, and remember there is nothing wrong with gas fired power stations only running for a small fraction of the time. (Indeed: in the old days - say 2000 - that was the role of gas. Most electricity generation then was coal or nuclear, and gas was just "peaking plants".)
    Natural gas is of course the cleanest of the fossil fuels, but it's only really clean if you capture the carbon emitted in burning it. Hence the need for gas power stations with carbon capture.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Hard to argue with, since she's right.

    Sweden Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Energy Ebba Busch stated today that "she's furious with Germany" for dismantling its nuclear power plants, causing a spike in energy prices in Sweden.

    Southern Sweden has record-high energy prices today due to having send electricity to Germany via undersea power cables today.

    Cold weather coupled with no wind has driven up the demand in Germany from other sources than wind. EU regulations force Sweden to send that electricity to Germany, driving up prices in southern Sweden today to be nearly 200 times higher than they are in northern Sweden.

    A 10-minute shower in southern Sweden costs around USD 5 during today's price spike.

    Ebba Busch added that Germany's decision to dismantle its nuclear power plants has also other detrimental effects for Europe..

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1867190438941061429
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    GIN1138 said:

    Kemi needs to cut the bullshit and start getting serious.

    It's not like she doesn't have a plenty to attack this government over...

    I think it was an excerpt from a 1+ hour interview she did. Of course the media decided to focus on one of the more trivial aspects of it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    GIN1138 said:

    Kemi needs to cut the bullshit and start getting serious.

    It's not like she doesn't have a plenty to attack this government over...

    She does and government unpopularity isn't her problem, Labour are already loathed and polling worse than under late Gordon Brown regime and have just come fifth in a county council by election today.

    Kemi's problem is more Farage and Reform are making the biggest gains from Labour not the Tories
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    edited December 13
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewll B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    What you say is true, but not new.
    Did you view the video and understand what he was getting at?
    We don't have solar to the degree they do in the deserts of California. What we do have though is a tidal range resource that the US does not.

    The US still produces far more power than we do to start with. We simply don’t generate enough power. Per capita electricity generation in the UK is just two thirds of that in France: 4,800 kilowatt-hours per head versus 7,300 in France. In the US it is 12,762. The US is already much nearer to being ble to provide pwoer in that sweet spot.
    While that's true (and you should declare an interest here @MarqueeMark), solar panel pricing is rapidly heading towards zero. This means that new warehouses and shopping centers and car parks and office and residential buildings are going to end up covered in solar, simply because if you're doing building work anyway, then adding solar is going to be essentially free.

    That means that the price of energy during summer and during sunny periods is heading to zero. Which is what hammers the forecasts for people talking about (say) tidal barrages, because you have to expect that for half the year, the power you produce is going to be largely valueless.

    That said tidal is far from the worst economic proposition: HPC manages to win that one by a country mile. We have to pay massive amounts for power from there, even when the grid won't need it.
    Your "free" solar panels still cost on average £7,000....

    Some distance off zero.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Nigelb said:

    Hard to argue with, since she's right.

    Sweden Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Energy Ebba Busch stated today that "she's furious with Germany" for dismantling its nuclear power plants, causing a spike in energy prices in Sweden.

    Southern Sweden has record-high energy prices today due to having send electricity to Germany via undersea power cables today.

    Cold weather coupled with no wind has driven up the demand in Germany from other sources than wind. EU regulations force Sweden to send that electricity to Germany, driving up prices in southern Sweden today to be nearly 200 times higher than they are in northern Sweden.

    A 10-minute shower in southern Sweden costs around USD 5 during today's price spike.

    Ebba Busch added that Germany's decision to dismantle its nuclear power plants has also other detrimental effects for Europe..

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1867190438941061429

    Merkel continues to find new ways to cause problems from beyond the political grave. It would be ironic if it were her energy policies that ended up blowing up the single market.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Dopermean said:

    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    About 200 GW?
    Which has to be completely rebuilt in 30 years time, from the ground/seabed up.

    And all the contracts renegotiated.

    Or you could build tidal lagoon power stations that will last 180 years.With sinking funds to replace turbines at years 60 and 120.

    180 years of the certainty of the tides, versus...?
    The tidal lagoons wouldn't provide enough storage to help out with wind and tidal intermittency, IIRC. The more I read about them the less I'm convinced tbh.
    Why would you need that ?
    Tidal intermittency would be easily addressed with batteries, so tidal plus storage could be pretty reliable baseload. The only real issue is cost.
    If you site your tidal ponds sensibly, they “cover” each other - the storage extends the generating period - because the tide times vary around the U.K.
    Going to be some minds blown around here.
    But it's OK, the "it doesn't solve the problem entirely mob" have already rushed in to kill it. Just imagine how much better off we could all be if it was accepted that there isn't a single solution but that combining energy saving (insulation), storage, solar, wind and tidal could solve a large part of it.
    80% solutions

    1) solve 80% of the problem
    2) solve 80% of 20%, leaving 4%
    3) solve 80% of 4%, leaving 0.8%
    etc
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    It's OK to rely on natural gas during periods of low renewables generation! It's clean, it has low capital and maintenance costs, and very large amounts of it can be stored.

    In fact the joy about natural gas is that the dominant part of the cost of electricity generation is the fuel: having plants sitting around only lightly used is isn't a problem. (In this way, it is better than essentially all the alternatives.)

    The UK should embrace gas as a bridge fuel, and remember there is nothing wrong with gas fired power stations only running for a small fraction of the time. (Indeed: in the old days - say 2000 - that was the role of gas. Most electricity generation then was coal or nuclear, and gas was just "peaking plants".)
    Except, to Miliband, they are still the work of the Devil...
    The problem there is that Miliband isn’t that bright

    Solar, wind, nuclear and gas form a sane energy plan with storage / tidal possibly added to the mix
    I struggle with the economic case for nuclear: it has high capital and maintenance costs, and historically has had horrible uptime. It's lack of dispatchability also makes it a very poor fit for a grid with increasing amount of intermittent power.

    I also struggle with our politicians. Over the next decade we could reduce CO2 from power generation about 80% from peak, all while increasing the share of electric vehicles on the road. It would be an incredible achievement, and could be done without any negative economic consequences. (Indeed, it may well come with positive ones.)

    Aiming for 100% by an arbitrary date, though, means going from a world where the energy transition is essentially painless to one where it becomes a massive drag on the economy.
    Miliband is very exposed on that 2030 date. His political opponents can make hay with it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewll B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    What you say is true, but not new.
    Did you view the video and understand what he was getting at?
    We don't have solar to the degree they do in the deserts of California. What we do have though is a tidal range resource that the US does not.

    The US still produces far more power than we do to start with. We simply don’t generate enough power. Per capita electricity generation in the UK is just two thirds of that in France: 4,800 kilowatt-hours per head versus 7,300 in France. In the US it is 12,762. The US is already much nearer to being ble to provide pwoer in that sweet spot.
    While that's true (and you should declare an interest here @MarqueeMark), solar panel pricing is rapidly heading towards zero. This means that new warehouses and shopping centers and car parks and office and residential buildings are going to end up covered in solar, simply because if you're doing building work anyway, then adding solar is going to be essentially free.

    That means that the price of energy during summer and during sunny periods is heading to zero. Which is what hammers the forecasts for people talking about (say) tidal barrages, because you have to expect that for half the year, the power you produce is going to be largely valueless.

    That said tidal is far from the worst economic proposition: HPC manages to win that one by a country mile. We have to pay massive amounts for power from there, even when the grid won't need it.
    Your "free" solar panels still cost on average £7,000....

    Some distant off zero.
    That’s the installation cost of a large array - a 450w panel costs £65 at the moment
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    Dopermean said:

    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    About 200 GW?
    Which has to be completely rebuilt in 30 years time, from the ground/seabed up.

    And all the contracts renegotiated.

    Or you could build tidal lagoon power stations that will last 180 years.With sinking funds to replace turbines at years 60 and 120.

    180 years of the certainty of the tides, versus...?
    The tidal lagoons wouldn't provide enough storage to help out with wind and tidal intermittency, IIRC. The more I read about them the less I'm convinced tbh.
    Why would you need that ?
    Tidal intermittency would be easily addressed with batteries, so tidal plus storage could be pretty reliable baseload. The only real issue is cost.
    If you site your tidal ponds sensibly, they “cover” each other - the storage extends the generating period - because the tide times vary around the U.K.
    Going to be some minds blown around here.
    But it's OK, the "it doesn't solve the problem entirely mob" have already rushed in to kill it. Just imagine how much better off we could all be if it was accepted that there isn't a single solution but that combining energy saving (insulation), storage, solar, wind and tidal could solve a large part of it.
    80% solutions

    1) solve 80% of the problem
    2) solve 80% of 20%, leaving 4%
    3) solve 80% of 4%, leaving 0.8%
    etc
    Exactly!

    The combination of Extinction Rebellion and stupid politicians is killing us.

    Keep iterating guys, and we'll get there, and it won't be painful.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewll B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    What you say is true, but not new.
    Did you view the video and understand what he was getting at?
    We don't have solar to the degree they do in the deserts of California. What we do have though is a tidal range resource that the US does not.

    The US still produces far more power than we do to start with. We simply don’t generate enough power. Per capita electricity generation in the UK is just two thirds of that in France: 4,800 kilowatt-hours per head versus 7,300 in France. In the US it is 12,762. The US is already much nearer to being ble to provide pwoer in that sweet spot.
    While that's true (and you should declare an interest here @MarqueeMark), solar panel pricing is rapidly heading towards zero. This means that new warehouses and shopping centers and car parks and office and residential buildings are going to end up covered in solar, simply because if you're doing building work anyway, then adding solar is going to be essentially free.

    That means that the price of energy during summer and during sunny periods is heading to zero. Which is what hammers the forecasts for people talking about (say) tidal barrages, because you have to expect that for half the year, the power you produce is going to be largely valueless.

    That said tidal is far from the worst economic proposition: HPC manages to win that one by a country mile. We have to pay massive amounts for power from there, even when the grid won't need it.
    Your "free" solar panels still cost on average £7,000....

    Some distance off zero.
    The curve is the curve. And it's only going in one direction.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    So who was lost in the 'purges of 2019' ?

    Here are the names:

    Guto Bebb
    Ken Clarke
    David Gauke
    Sam Gyimah
    Justine Greening
    Dominic Grieve
    Philip Hammond
    Olly Letwin
    Anne Milton
    Antoinette Sandbach
    Rory Stewart

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_suspension_of_rebel_Conservative_MPs

    Give their ages and the loss of seats this year how many would even still be MPs ?
    It wasn't so much about the MPs (though 2022-now would have benefitted from having people like Gauke, Greening and Stewart on-call) as the effect on the candidates' list. The people who didn't enter parliament in 2019 or 2024. The people who won't be interesting spokesmen in 2028 or senior Cabinet members in 2033.

    The curse of delayed consequences strikes again.
    I think you had to go back earlier. The Tory Party of 2015/6 was quite civilised but after Brexit and the defenestration of Cameron Osborne Clark and co all the civilising influences melted away and you were left with the Johnsons Goves Patels Rees Moggs Bravermen and the most unfit and unpleasant leading Tory politicians most of us can remember.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    edited December 13

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    It's OK to rely on natural gas during periods of low renewables generation! It's clean, it has low capital and maintenance costs, and very large amounts of it can be stored.

    In fact the joy about natural gas is that the dominant part of the cost of electricity generation is the fuel: having plants sitting around only lightly used is isn't a problem. (In this way, it is better than essentially all the alternatives.)

    The UK should embrace gas as a bridge fuel, and remember there is nothing wrong with gas fired power stations only running for a small fraction of the time. (Indeed: in the old days - say 2000 - that was the role of gas. Most electricity generation then was coal or nuclear, and gas was just "peaking plants".)
    Natural gas is of course the cleanest of the fossil fuels, but it's only really clean if you capture the carbon emitted in burning it. Hence the need for gas power stations with carbon capture.
    That's bonkers, given that every year, the amount of energy that those plants will produce is going to diminish. If gas plants were going to be running 24/7, 365 days a year, then you could make a case for it. But in a world where gas load factors are going to be in the 30s or 20s, then the amount of carbon captured relative to the cost simply doesn't make economic sense.

    Edit to add: 30s or 20s and falling.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewll B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    What you say is true, but not new.
    Did you view the video and understand what he was getting at?
    We don't have solar to the degree they do in the deserts of California. What we do have though is a tidal range resource that the US does not.

    The US still produces far more power than we do to start with. We simply don’t generate enough power. Per capita electricity generation in the UK is just two thirds of that in France: 4,800 kilowatt-hours per head versus 7,300 in France. In the US it is 12,762. The US is already much nearer to being ble to provide pwoer in that sweet spot.
    While that's true (and you should declare an interest here @MarqueeMark), solar panel pricing is rapidly heading towards zero. This means that new warehouses and shopping centers and car parks and office and residential buildings are going to end up covered in solar, simply because if you're doing building work anyway, then adding solar is going to be essentially free.

    That means that the price of energy during summer and during sunny periods is heading to zero. Which is what hammers the forecasts for people talking about (say) tidal barrages, because you have to expect that for half the year, the power you produce is going to be largely valueless.

    That said tidal is far from the worst economic proposition: HPC manages to win that one by a country mile. We have to pay massive amounts for power from there, even when the grid won't need it.
    Your "free" solar panels still cost on average £7,000....

    Some distance off zero.
    The curve is the curve. And it's only going in one direction.
    But that curve flattens out well before zero.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, Leccy peaked at £369/MwH wholesale yesterday.

    Not enough wind.
    Plenty of wind, just the fact the last government was so distracted by Nimbys that we can't generate enough of it.

    Miliband is doing 100% the right thing

    Increasing solar capability, increasing offshore and onshore wind capability, ensuring we have a gas back up, talking about limited small nuclear back up.

    2030 is very ambitious, 2035 the end of a second Labour term is very achievable.

    He coukd define his political career as the Minister who built A renewable energy platform for the 21st century in the same way Bevan built the NHS after Ww2

    He must revisit the Seven Boom and look again at Hydro like Electric Mountain in Snowdonia, a concept sadly ignored for too long.
    Wind generation for the previous day was 2.36 GW. On the 5th December we hit 22 GW for the first time, so 10.7% capacity of the system. Just how much wind capacity do you propose we build to produce significant wind power on days like yesterday ?
    What about enough for 'Super Power' as promoted by Tony Seba and RethinkX?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
    See the Clean Energy U Curve at about 9.10
    That's for the US - the analysis for the UK may well be different particularly for solar. We just don't have the sunshine duration that the USA has due to our latitude and position east of the atlantic.



    The figures might work for us, but it'd need analysis based on the UK's specific factors.

    All solar has 50% inbuilt obsolesence - it averages dark half the time, wherever you are. The problem for the UK is that when we need maximum power - during the winter months - that obsolecence is near to two thirds.
    True, but we do have wind and quite a lot occurs in the winter.
    Indeed. But if you have a high-pressure system sat over the UK in the winter, it can be well below freezing at night, but not a single turbine blade is turning. We had that situation this autumn for I think 12 days. We dusted down the programme for rolling brown-outs and black-outs to get ready for not enough power. Not helped by Sizewell B going through a 6-week shutdown to change out fuel.

    Natural gas came to the rescue.
    It's OK to rely on natural gas during periods of low renewables generation! It's clean, it has low capital and maintenance costs, and very large amounts of it can be stored.

    In fact the joy about natural gas is that the dominant part of the cost of electricity generation is the fuel: having plants sitting around only lightly used is isn't a problem. (In this way, it is better than essentially all the alternatives.)

    The UK should embrace gas as a bridge fuel, and remember there is nothing wrong with gas fired power stations only running for a small fraction of the time. (Indeed: in the old days - say 2000 - that was the role of gas. Most electricity generation then was coal or nuclear, and gas was just "peaking plants".)
    Natural gas is of course the cleanest of the fossil fuels, but it's only really clean if you capture the carbon emitted in burning it. Hence the need for gas power stations with carbon capture.
    That's bonkers, given that every year, the amount of energy that those plants will produce is going to diminish. If gas plants were going to be running 24/7, 365 days a year, then you could make a case for it. But in a world where gas load factors are going to be in the 30s or 20s, then the amount of carbon captured relative to the cost simply doesn't make economic sense.
    If you are arguing for the continued use of gas to fill in the gaps then surely it will be needed indefinitely, and if overall energy use goes up, then it will be needed in greater quantities on those days when renewables aren't available.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Roger said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
    So who was lost in the 'purges of 2019' ?

    Here are the names:

    Guto Bebb
    Ken Clarke
    David Gauke
    Sam Gyimah
    Justine Greening
    Dominic Grieve
    Philip Hammond
    Olly Letwin
    Anne Milton
    Antoinette Sandbach
    Rory Stewart

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_suspension_of_rebel_Conservative_MPs

    Give their ages and the loss of seats this year how many would even still be MPs ?
    It wasn't so much about the MPs (though 2022-now would have benefitted from having people like Gauke, Greening and Stewart on-call) as the effect on the candidates' list. The people who didn't enter parliament in 2019 or 2024. The people who won't be interesting spokesmen in 2028 or senior Cabinet members in 2033.

    The curse of delayed consequences strikes again.
    I think you had to go back earlier. The Tory Party of 2015/6 was quite civilised but after Brexit and the defenestration of Cameron Osborne Clark and co all the civilising influences melted away and you were left with the Johnsons Goves Patels Rees Moggs Bravermen and the most unfit and unpleasant leading Tory politicians most of us can remember.
    I guess you have Thatcher, Tebbitt and Parkinson as a bunch of cross dressing pinkos.
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