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What is it about British party leaders and sandwiches? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited December 13
    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    No it hasn't but businesses are anticipating it and it is already having an impact.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    As well as an incoming US government promising a serious bonfire of regulations and taxes.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    I've PMed you a specific example of UK investment that isn't now going to happen due I think in part to Labour's policies.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Serious answer. IMO it's fine, and perhaps necessary, alongside the heavier stuff - as long as the serious side is not displaced. Whether that has happened is a different debate, and imo is more about the Cons currently being a vacuum.

    Did Churchill and the MPs have a lighter side during WW2? They certainly looked beyond the immediate - they were talking about what future society would be in 1941 and 1942, eg the committee behind the The Beveridge Report was appointed one month after the London Blitz.
    That's a really odd example to give in two senses.

    Firstly, whilst establishing the modern NHS and welfare state and defeating Nazism are both very different challenges, neither was ever frivilous. Talking about pensions wasn't in any meaningful sense the 1940s equivalent of BLT chat.

    Secondly, whilst this may have been unfair to a degree, Churchill famously failed to convince the public he'd looked enough at how to win the peace. He lost the General Election in a landslide less than two months after the triumph of VE Day.
    That's not quite how I intended it - my example was a focus on things other than the immediate and short-term, and I'm wondering about there being other off-topic (as we would call it) foci around humour.

    I'm not familiar enough with the ins and outs of politics and media in 1939-45 to know how humour and levity around politicians functioned alongside the war effort.

    I have about 20 years of inherited Giles Annuals from that mid-century period (the murderous grandma with her umbrella), but I think they only go back to the late 1940s.

    Perhaps I need to go and listen to some ITMA (1939-48) for Churchill references.
    ITMA was very topical according to the Wiki History.

    I wonder if there is much of that or Workers' Playtime around in the published archives.

    A lot of material is basicallu post-war, and even Alistair Cooke went dark during the war.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    TimS said:

    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46

    Dirty sleazy sandwich knockers on the slide...

    Presumably there must be some improvement in the others, even if lost in rounding errors?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    TimS said:

    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46

    Rather better poll for Kemi than Find Out Now. She would take going into the New Year tied with Labour for the lead
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46

    Rather better poll for Kemi than Find Out Now. She would take going into the New Year tied with Labour for the lead
    Though she has dropped 2%!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,465
    edited December 13
    Dopermean said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
    Based on a fair bit of anecdotal evidence I would say the French system is much better than ours, so maybe the comparison is an illustration of 'you get what you pay for'.

    Edit: And the US system is certainly good if you can afford it, which of course many cannot.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Besides, if it hadn't been the sandwiches, it would have been something else.

    In her interview with the Spectator, Kemi Badenoch also associated herself with Daenerys Targaryen of Game of Thrones, a character who is initially lauded as a great leader, but who becomes a tyrant and is assassinated. According to Badenoch, Daenerys is “a much misunderstood character”.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ianfraser.bsky.social/post/3ld4i57oi5c2e

    Isn't that the woman who was always being sh**GED from behind by Jason Ma

    How is Rachel Reeves so crap? How on earth did she obtain a 1st class degree from the LSE?

    (I still don’t understand why Labour have talked economy down for months and then slapped a huge tax on business, expecting that to have any other outcome than what we see now..)

    How so many have forgotten the Q3 / Q4 recession of 2023.

    The frigged and clearly unsustainable "gangbusters" of Q1 2024 when Sunak conned himself and the tory Party that it was anything but a blip.

    Q3 figures almost entirely as a result of the Farage supported and encouraged riots and some adverse early Autumn weather.

    November won't look great either given various named storms delaying Construction and delaying early Christmas foot fall...

    Judge Labour in 2025 as the green shoots of their work in Q3 and Q4 this year starts to deliver tangible benefits.

    You don't refloat a sunken and stripped out tanker in 5 minutes....you have to get it back to the surface, invest in refitting and only then can you sail the seven seas into an increasing bright future...
    In the same was I would chime into every Boris Johnson cockup in 2020, 21 and 22 for 500 posts a day, the same few characters are claiming economic Armageddon when this time last year they were seeing green shoots everywhere.

    I don't know whether by repeating Reeves is sh*** gets us a change of Government any sooner, although I stand back and polish my nails as I review that my Boris Johnson postings on PB may have at least encouraged his early demise.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,358
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    It might not be AI that wipes us out.

    Technical Report on Mirror Bacteria: Feasibility and Risks

    https://purl.stanford.edu/cv716pj4036
    This report describes the technical feasibility of creating mirror bacteria and the potentially serious and wide-ranging risks that they could pose to humans, other animals, plants, and the environment. It accompanies the Science Policy Forum article titled “Confronting risks of mirror life”, published in December 2024.

    In a mirror bacterium, all of the chiral molecules of existing bacteria—proteins, nucleic acids, and metabolites—are replaced by their mirror images. Mirror bacteria could not evolve from existing life, but their creation will become increasingly feasible as science advances. Interactions between organisms often depend on chirality, and so interactions between natural organisms and mirror bacteria would be profoundly different from those between natural organisms. Most importantly, immune defenses and predation typically rely on interactions between chiral molecules that could often fail to detect or kill mirror bacteria due to their reversed chirality. It therefore appears plausible, even likely, that sufficiently robust mirror bacteria could spread through the environment unchecked by natural biological controls and act as dangerous opportunistic pathogens in an unprecedentedly wide range of other multicellular organisms, including humans.

    This report draws on expertise from synthetic biology, immunology, ecology, and related fields to provide the first comprehensive assessment of the risks from mirror bacteria. It consists of eight chapters and starts with a general introduction, followed by an examination of the initial creation of mirror bacteria, their further engineering, as well as biosecurity and biosafety implications. The remaining five chapters cover risks to human health, medical countermeasures, risks to other animals, risks to plants, and the potential ecological consequences of their introduction into the environment...

    The good news is that such an effort would be a massive undertaking. It's not something anyone is going to cook up in a small laboratory.

    It would be a Manhattan Project size problem to create such organisms, but it's almost certainly possible. Not doing it would be a very good idea.
    I haven't read the article (!)

    But surely the problem goes both ways. Yes it is possible to have organisms based on reverse geometry, but surely they would struggle to live in an orthodox world as their own enzymes and binding sites wouldn't work on us either.
    IANAE but I understand some molecules like glucose do not have mirrors, so a mirror bacteria could live off them whilst evading immune system.

    The flip side of this is that these mirrors may be very effective medecines as they should have a very long half life inside the body.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    edited December 13
    From the Guardian on Wednesday, under the headline 'It's not bigotry to worry about migration', the interesting Larry Elliott. Everything about it is worth reading in detail, not least because of where this appeared and how the meeting of immovable object and irresistable force is affecting the stance of those who used to be above this sort of thing:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/11/migration-figures-britain-economy-keir-starmer

    Note: it is entirely free from suggested solutions, of course.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,760
    It's a poor show if the Kemical Warfare simps are already at the "It's the media's fault." stage.

    It took the Corbyn wankers a full year to get to that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    How is Rachel Reeves so crap? How on earth did she obtain a 1st class degree from the LSE?

    (I still don’t understand why Labour have talked economy down for months and then slapped a huge tax on business, expecting that to have any other outcome than what we see now..)

    She didn't, she got a 2nd class degree from Oxford then worked in complaints for HBOS
  • MattW said:

    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:
    Nice reference.

    Arthur Mee (Of "The Kings England" 1930s guide books, and the Childrens Newspaper) in Monty Python. I can see that the Python Oxbridge e set would know him.

    In my architectural set he's viewed as trying to do a Pevsner or Betjeman, but being hampered by a stereotypical Rudyard Kipling worldview.

    Mee had one child, but, despite his work, declared that he had no particular affinity with children. His works for them suggest[to whom?] that his interest was in trying to encourage the raising of a generation of patriotic and moral citizens. (Wiki).

    He came from Stapleford, and went from child of a railwayman to literary editor of the Daily Mail before 1900, and made good.

    I like this:
    As a boy he earned money from reading the reports of Parliament to a local blind man.
    Also the Children's Encyclopaedia.

    I had my father's one as a child - loved it, especially the bits on prehistoric animals and steam locos. Aeroplanes a bit out of date by then though.
    ditto

    The Childrens Encyclopaedia stopped in 1964.

    I feel young again !
    I trust that is not an ageist, misogynist dig at Taylor Swift, 35 today. Dick Van Dyke is 99 and still working on his cockney MLE accent.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46

    Rather better poll for Kemi than Find Out Now. She would take going into the New Year tied with Labour for the lead
    Though she has dropped 2%!
    There's certainly been no Kemi bounce. I do not watch PMQ's but, by all accounts, she is a bit of a dud at that up against Sir Kier. Not important in the overall scheme of things as few people see it, but as someone pointed out here it does fire up her MP's if she is good.

    Labour have clearly slumped post general election but the Tories have not gained from it. That should concern them.
  • Foxy said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    I think it fairly easy to make the case that the NHS doesn't spend enough on administration. It's that lack that accounts for a lot of the inefficiencies that the public experience.
    I look forward to the BMA and RCN recommending lower pay rises with the money saved used for admin investment.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    .

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    The government's entire programme is predicated on achieving above trend long-term economic growth*. I expected a load of happy-clappy boosterism that might be nonsense but would at least create a positive mood. Instead we have some very dull politicians telling us everything is awful, and not going to get better any time soon. When they do talk about growth plans much of it seems quite insubstantial and along a line that has been tried and failed before.

    I really did expect better communication and bigger ideas.

    * Well it was, they might have already ditched that, which makes you wonder how the hell they are going to pay for things.
  • NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Perhaps Musk sympathises with the murder of Brian Thompson.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 13

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    It's all so pointless. A manufactured recession for £22bn extra for the NHS that will simply be soaked up by higher prices and wages internally with absolutely no commensurate increase in output.

    Diabolical.
    Its interesting how a proper economist seems to be doing much better with an even tougher gig in Argentina....

    Don't be fooled by all the chainsaw antics. I listened to a number of extended interviews with him and he can have very detailed serious discussions about economic theory (which is unsurprising given he was an academic in the subject).
  • So who will replace Reeves and when ?

    Are there any markets for next CoE ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    glw said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    The government's entire programme is predicated on achieving above trend long-term economic growth*. I expected a load of happy-clappy boosterism that might be nonsense but would at least create a positive mood. Instead we have some very dull politicians telling us everything is awful, and not going to get better any time soon. When they do talk about growth plans much of it seems quite insubstantial and along a line that has been tried and failed before.

    I really did expect better communication and bigger ideas.

    * Well it was, they might have already ditched that, which makes you wonder how the hell they are going to pay for things.
    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    glw said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    The government's entire programme is predicated on achieving above trend long-term economic growth*. I expected a load of happy-clappy boosterism that might be nonsense but would at least create a positive mood. Instead we have some very dull politicians telling us everything is awful, and not going to get better any time soon. When they do talk about growth plans much of it seems quite insubstantial and along a line that has been tried and failed before.

    I really did expect better communication and bigger ideas.

    * Well it was, they might have already ditched that, which makes you wonder how the hell they are going to pay for things.
    We have heard it all before. Go for growth, close the productivity gap, with the usual result of nothing substantive being achieved.

    I get them wanting to make out they had inherited a mess, they just really really overdid the doom and gloom.

    This was a supposed govt in waiting ready to hit the ground running. So far it just feels like we have exchanged one lot of dull incompetents for another.
  • rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    It might not be AI that wipes us out.

    Technical Report on Mirror Bacteria: Feasibility and Risks

    https://purl.stanford.edu/cv716pj4036
    This report describes the technical feasibility of creating mirror bacteria and the potentially serious and wide-ranging risks that they could pose to humans, other animals, plants, and the environment. It accompanies the Science Policy Forum article titled “Confronting risks of mirror life”, published in December 2024.

    In a mirror bacterium, all of the chiral molecules of existing bacteria—proteins, nucleic acids, and metabolites—are replaced by their mirror images. Mirror bacteria could not evolve from existing life, but their creation will become increasingly feasible as science advances. Interactions between organisms often depend on chirality, and so interactions between natural organisms and mirror bacteria would be profoundly different from those between natural organisms. Most importantly, immune defenses and predation typically rely on interactions between chiral molecules that could often fail to detect or kill mirror bacteria due to their reversed chirality. It therefore appears plausible, even likely, that sufficiently robust mirror bacteria could spread through the environment unchecked by natural biological controls and act as dangerous opportunistic pathogens in an unprecedentedly wide range of other multicellular organisms, including humans.

    This report draws on expertise from synthetic biology, immunology, ecology, and related fields to provide the first comprehensive assessment of the risks from mirror bacteria. It consists of eight chapters and starts with a general introduction, followed by an examination of the initial creation of mirror bacteria, their further engineering, as well as biosecurity and biosafety implications. The remaining five chapters cover risks to human health, medical countermeasures, risks to other animals, risks to plants, and the potential ecological consequences of their introduction into the environment...

    The good news is that such an effort would be a massive undertaking. It's not something anyone is going to cook up in a small laboratory.

    It would be a Manhattan Project size problem to create such organisms, but it's almost certainly possible. Not doing it would be a very good idea.
    I haven't read the article (!)

    But surely the problem goes both ways. Yes it is possible to have organisms based on reverse geometry, but surely they would struggle to live in an orthodox world as their own enzymes and binding sites wouldn't work on us either.
    IANAE but I understand some molecules like glucose do not have mirrors, so a mirror bacteria could live off them whilst evading immune system.

    The flip side of this is that these mirrors may be very effective medecines as they should have a very long half life inside the body.
    Step away from the test-tube!

    Report comes out hightlighting "the potentially serious and wide-ranging risks that they could pose to humans,", response is "ooh that looks really useful".
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    theProle said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    To be fair, it's not really Kemi's fault we're all talking about this. She made some fairly offhand remarks about what she likes for lunch in the middle of a longish interview, and the media has promptly gone nuts.
    The problem is really a media which doesn't understand or explain big issues, so instead is reduced to shouting about personalities.
    The media understands its market. This is all about clickbait and driving traffic. I agree it is not Kemi;s fault, and this is nothing really sinister about lunch or deep and meaningful, but the media presents what will interest people and keep them coming back. It is why so many local rags and the likes of the Express constantly have "updates" about WASPI payouts for example. Engagement farming based on something said that was sensational.

    I doubt the Spectator are too unhappy about it either if it is driving them traffic.
    This is where the BBC should really come into its own, but sadly they’re going down the same route as the rest of the media and going for the lowest common denominator.

    This year in the US was the long-predicted breakthrough of new media dominance in an election campaign, it’s very likely that by the next UK election no-one under 50 is going to be watching anything on TV at all. Kemi could do a lot worse than going around the top 20 podcasts in the next couple of years, talking for an hour or two on whatever subject comes up. She’d be a lot better at that format than Starmer.
    Yes. Podcasts are showing up the BBC as dowdy. There are well informed podcasts that don't do 'gotcha' stuff, and are informedly opinionated, and are aware of the awful wickedness of the world without having to reiterate it endlessly. The BBC overdoes the human interest (it is of course relevant and real) reporting of Syria and especially Sudan -when it does anything - rather than deeply interpreting what is occurring.
    I think there are some great BBC podcasts.

    There’s also the problem that the popular (non-BBC) podcasts are *not* the informed ones. E.g., see Joe Rogan and his “F*** you” to Ukraine.
  • Taz said:

    glw said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    The government's entire programme is predicated on achieving above trend long-term economic growth*. I expected a load of happy-clappy boosterism that might be nonsense but would at least create a positive mood. Instead we have some very dull politicians telling us everything is awful, and not going to get better any time soon. When they do talk about growth plans much of it seems quite insubstantial and along a line that has been tried and failed before.

    I really did expect better communication and bigger ideas.

    * Well it was, they might have already ditched that, which makes you wonder how the hell they are going to pay for things.
    We have heard it all before. Go for growth, close the productivity gap, with the usual result of nothing substantive being achieved.

    I get them wanting to make out they had inherited a mess, they just really really overdid the doom and gloom.

    This was a supposed govt in waiting ready to hit the ground running. So far it just feels like we have exchanged one lot of dull incompetents for another.
    Labour's problem was Liz Truss. The Truss/Kwarteng budget meltdown showed what happens when the OBR was bypassed, so the budget had to wait for the OBR. The rest was Labour shooting itself in the foot by not responding to media and opposition speculation on new taxes.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,286

    glw said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    The government's entire programme is predicated on achieving above trend long-term economic growth*. I expected a load of happy-clappy boosterism that might be nonsense but would at least create a positive mood. Instead we have some very dull politicians telling us everything is awful, and not going to get better any time soon. When they do talk about growth plans much of it seems quite insubstantial and along a line that has been tried and failed before.

    I really did expect better communication and bigger ideas.

    * Well it was, they might have already ditched that, which makes you wonder how the hell they are going to pay for things.
    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.
    It was by far and away the weakest aspect of the budget. Paying for investment by growing the economy was always pie in the sky, but then producing a budget that simply tried to plug (genuine, blameable-on-the-Tories) holes in essential current spending rather than making future investment bets was amongst the worst of a set of very bad choices available to Reeves.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
  • Dopermean said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
    But the bottom line is that the French system is miles better than ours both in terms of front line delivery of services and health outcomes. The same goes for much of the rest of Europe.

    And the French system is not 'payment at delivery' with the exception of the very sensible system of making people pay for GP visits then refunding it when they actually turn up. Indeed the French system generally is a lot less payment at delivery than our own when it comes to things like prescriptions and dentistry where much of the cost above a nominal 1 Euro per prescription is reimbursed by the state.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,286

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    It's all so pointless. A manufactured recession for £22bn extra for the NHS that will simply be soaked up by higher prices and wages internally with absolutely no commensurate increase in output.

    Diabolical.
    Its interesting how a proper economist seems to be doing much better with an even tougher gig in Argentina....

    Don't be fooled by all the chainsaw antics. I listened to a number of extended interviews with him and he can have very detailed serious discussions about economic theory (which is unsurprising given he was an academic in the subject).
    That may be so, and no comment on Argentina specifically as I haven't followed it, but one "can have very detailed serious discussions about economic theory" and be spouting more crap than a diseased elephant. It's the nature of economics, a charlatan's specialism in the main.
  • glw said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    The government's entire programme is predicated on achieving above trend long-term economic growth*. I expected a load of happy-clappy boosterism that might be nonsense but would at least create a positive mood. Instead we have some very dull politicians telling us everything is awful, and not going to get better any time soon. When they do talk about growth plans much of it seems quite insubstantial and along a line that has been tried and failed before.

    I really did expect better communication and bigger ideas.

    * Well it was, they might have already ditched that, which makes you wonder how the hell they are going to pay for things.
    Allowing sixteen weeks of scare stories about which taxes would be increased was madness.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    I'm not that convinced - except that Usonia is a horribly expensive, exploitative mess.

    The orders of the others may vary quite substantially with numbers from a different year, in Euros, or using PPP.

    Also it's only a subset of the OECD - where are impotant countries such as Spain, Italy etc.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Perhaps Musk sympathises with the murder of Brian Thompson.
    Suspect that every CEO in the US is taking a very big look at their personal security at the moment. Many healthcare companies have deleted “management team” biographies from websites in the past week.

    I’m genuinely interested if the incoming administration can un-fcuk healthcare in the US. Where I live the system is roughly similar, an insurance-based model, but without the total fcukery seen in the US, and it generally works well, without the massively inflated prices and contractual terms that are common Stateside.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 13

    So who will replace Reeves and when ?

    Are there any markets for next CoE ?

    There's not much chance of that.

    We have another King who divorced recently, and the old one is still here :wink: .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    edited December 13

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    Kemi will shortly be leading on the kids medicalised into a life of piracy.
  • MattW said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    I'm not that convinced - except that Usonia is a horribly expensive, exploitative mess.

    The orders of the others may vary quite substantially with numbers from a different year, in Euros, or using PPP.

    Also it's only a subset of the OECD - where are impotant countries such as Spain, Italy etc.
    None of which would change our status as one of the cheapest.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 13

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    Taz said:

    We have heard it all before. Go for growth, close the productivity gap, with the usual result of nothing substantive being achieved.

    I get them wanting to make out they had inherited a mess, they just really really overdid the doom and gloom.

    This was a supposed govt in waiting ready to hit the ground running. So far it just feels like we have exchanged one lot of dull incompetents for another.

    Sunak is a lot more plausible on the growth stuff. Because people believe that he's got some big ideas, and is willing to take risks, and knows what he's talking about. Of course perception is not execution, we know that talk is cheap.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children mutilated over the past decade.
    In the world of the not entirely humourless, parodies usually contain some element of a joke.
    I agree this one isn’t very funny.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
  • glw said:

    Taz said:

    We have heard it all before. Go for growth, close the productivity gap, with the usual result of nothing substantive being achieved.

    I get them wanting to make out they had inherited a mess, they just really really overdid the doom and gloom.

    This was a supposed govt in waiting ready to hit the ground running. So far it just feels like we have exchanged one lot of dull incompetents for another.

    Sunak is a lot more plausible on the growth stuff. Because people believe that he's got some big ideas, and is willing to take risks, and knows what he's talking about. Of course perception is not execution, we know that talk is cheap.
    For all Starmer's 'son of a toolmaker' self-branding does anyone believe that Starmer could run a toolmaking business ?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    Dopermean said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
    But the bottom line is that the French system is miles better than ours both in terms of front line delivery of services and health outcomes. The same goes for much of the rest of Europe.

    And the French system is not 'payment at delivery' with the exception of the very sensible system of making people pay for GP visits then refunding it when they actually turn up. Indeed the French system generally is a lot less payment at delivery than our own when it comes to things like prescriptions and dentistry where much of the cost above a nominal 1 Euro per prescription is reimbursed by the state.
    I'm sure you're correct about outcomes, presciptions and dentistry, however key word there being "reimbursed", you pay then get reimbursed. Reimbursement is getting much quicker but creates problems for those who can't make the initial payment or access to a bank account.
    Streeting made the point on QT that the differences in delivery and outcomes between different health systems is almost entirely independent of how it is paid for. Which gives hope that he is focusing on delivery and outcomes not charging systems.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46

    Rather better poll for Kemi than Find Out Now. She would take going into the New Year tied with Labour for the lead
    Though she has dropped 2%!
    There's certainly been no Kemi bounce. I do not watch PMQ's but, by all accounts, she is a bit of a dud at that up against Sir Kier. Not important in the overall scheme of things as few people see it, but as someone pointed out here it does fire up her MP's if she is good.

    Labour have clearly slumped post general election but the Tories have not gained from it. That should concern them.
    It’s Keir. K-E-I-R.

    Why can’t you spell even the most high profile of politicians’ names? Bizarre.

    (And it’s MPs, no apostrophe).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 13

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    Yes, that is indeed what winds up Gender Critical feminists. People being "different" :smirk:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    We have two kittens.

    They like sitting on the chairs in the study.

    I find Mittens sitting on my chair in the study. I move her onto my wife's chair.

    Mittens moves back behind me, leaving me perched on the front of the chair.

    I move Mittens onto the other chair, then go downstairs for a minute.

    I come back to find Mittens on my chair, and Kaplan on the other one.

    I move Mittens back to the other chair, beside her sister.

    Mittens immediately jumps back onto my chair.

    I give up, and work perched on the edge of my chair.

    I know my place in this household: subservient to the cats...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46

    Rather better poll for Kemi than Find Out Now. She would take going into the New Year tied with Labour for the lead
    Though she has dropped 2%!
    There's certainly been no Kemi bounce. I do not watch PMQ's but, by all accounts, she is a bit of a dud at that up against Sir Kier. Not important in the overall scheme of things as few people see it, but as someone pointed out here it does fire up her MP's if she is good.

    Labour have clearly slumped post general election but the Tories have not gained from it. That should concern them.
    It’s Keir. K-E-I-R.

    Why can’t you spell even the most high profile of politicians’ names? Bizarre.

    (And it’s MPs, no apostrophe).
    I know it is Keir you f*****g humourless, cash obsessive, mug.

    It was a deliberate typo following your pointless barbs aimed at Dumbosaurus over the same issue.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.
  • glw said:

    Taz said:

    We have heard it all before. Go for growth, close the productivity gap, with the usual result of nothing substantive being achieved.

    I get them wanting to make out they had inherited a mess, they just really really overdid the doom and gloom.

    This was a supposed govt in waiting ready to hit the ground running. So far it just feels like we have exchanged one lot of dull incompetents for another.

    Sunak is a lot more plausible on the growth stuff. Because people believe that he's got some big ideas, and is willing to take risks, and knows what he's talking about. Of course perception is not execution, we know that talk is cheap.
    For all Starmer's 'son of a toolmaker' self-branding does anyone believe that Starmer could run a toolmaking business ?
    By contrast its easy to imagine Rishi successfully running the Sunak pharmacy in Southampton.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46

    Rather better poll for Kemi than Find Out Now. She would take going into the New Year tied with Labour for the lead
    Though she has dropped 2%!
    There's certainly been no Kemi bounce. I do not watch PMQ's but, by all accounts, she is a bit of a dud at that up against Sir Kier. Not important in the overall scheme of things as few people see it, but as someone pointed out here it does fire up her MP's if she is good.

    Labour have clearly slumped post general election but the Tories have not gained from it. That should concern them.
    It’s Keir. K-E-I-R.

    Why can’t you spell even the most high profile of politicians’ names? Bizarre.

    (And it’s MPs, no apostrophe).
    I know it is Keir you f*****g humourless, cash obsessive, mug.

    It was a deliberate typo following your pointless barbs aimed at Dumbosaurus over the same issue.
    Sprinkle a little bait on the water - and the fishes will rise to the surface every time...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    On one of the football forums I read

    Badenoch is a Year 9 who won a competition. Once seen cannot be unseen.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    We have two kittens.

    They like sitting on the chairs in the study.

    I find Mittens sitting on my chair in the study. I move her onto my wife's chair.

    Mittens moves back behind me, leaving me perched on the front of the chair.

    I move Mittens onto the other chair, then go downstairs for a minute.

    I come back to find Mittens on my chair, and Kaplan on the other one.

    I move Mittens back to the other chair, beside her sister.

    Mittens immediately jumps back onto my chair.

    I give up, and work perched on the edge of my chair.

    I know my place in this household: subservient to the cats...

    Dogs have owners, cats have staff.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    https://x.com/nypost/status/1867378247886852291

    Biden slammed for commuting sentence of notorious ‘Kids-for-Cash’ judge convicted of imprisoning juveniles for $2.1M kickbacks
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited December 13
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    I think this is the lowest or equal lowest LabCon vote share so far. 52:48 vs the SPLORG

    Final @Moreincommon_ voting intention of 2024 is a dead tie between Labour & the Conservatives. Two big parties on just 52% between them.

    🌳CON 26% (-2)
    🌹LAB 26% (nc)
    ➡️ REF UK 19% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% ( nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 3% (nc)

    N =2,432 Dates: 6-10/12 Change w 2/12


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1867488787946770682?s=46

    Rather better poll for Kemi than Find Out Now. She would take going into the New Year tied with Labour for the lead
    Though she has dropped 2%!
    There's certainly been no Kemi bounce. I do not watch PMQ's but, by all accounts, she is a bit of a dud at that up against Sir Kier. Not important in the overall scheme of things as few people see it, but as someone pointed out here it does fire up her MP's if she is good.

    Labour have clearly slumped post general election but the Tories have not gained from it. That should concern them.
    It’s Keir. K-E-I-R.

    Why can’t you spell even the most high profile of politicians’ names? Bizarre.

    (And it’s MPs, no apostrophe).
    I know it is Keir you f*****g humourless, cash obsessive, mug.

    It was a deliberate typo following your pointless barbs aimed at Dumbosaurus over the same issue.
    Oh dear. Go back to bed.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    She was anti-woke. The others were at least as bad. Not much more to it than that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Sandpit said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Perhaps Musk sympathises with the murder of Brian Thompson.
    Suspect that every CEO in the US is taking a very big look at their personal security at the moment. Many healthcare companies have deleted “management team” biographies from websites in the past week.

    I’m genuinely interested if the incoming administration can un-fcuk healthcare in the US. Where I live the system is roughly similar, an insurance-based model, but without the total fcukery seen in the US, and it generally works well, without the massively inflated prices and contractual terms that are common Stateside.
    Hardly given the GOP opposition to socialised medicine
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Taz said:

    glw said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    The government's entire programme is predicated on achieving above trend long-term economic growth*. I expected a load of happy-clappy boosterism that might be nonsense but would at least create a positive mood. Instead we have some very dull politicians telling us everything is awful, and not going to get better any time soon. When they do talk about growth plans much of it seems quite insubstantial and along a line that has been tried and failed before.

    I really did expect better communication and bigger ideas.

    * Well it was, they might have already ditched that, which makes you wonder how the hell they are going to pay for things.
    This was a supposed govt in waiting ready to hit the ground running.
    Well, they've hit the ground...

    Hard.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
    As well as an incoming US government promising a serious bonfire of regulations and taxes.
    ...and tariffs >:)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 13

    We have two kittens.

    They like sitting on the chairs in the study.

    I find Mittens sitting on my chair in the study. I move her onto my wife's chair.

    Mittens moves back behind me, leaving me perched on the front of the chair.

    I move Mittens onto the other chair, then go downstairs for a minute.

    I come back to find Mittens on my chair, and Kaplan on the other one.

    I move Mittens back to the other chair, beside her sister.

    Mittens immediately jumps back onto my chair.

    I give up, and work perched on the edge of my chair.

    I know my place in this household: subservient to the cats...

    Lordy, you surrendered quickly !

    You need a Youtube channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAgUaKphF0U

    or 7 wives.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    edited December 13
    glw said:

    I think they genuinely thought it would just magically happen by virtue of them being in office.

    They are like the worst sales manager ever. "Team we have to beat last years figures, but everything is terrible and things are only going to get worse." They'd be first on the chopping block.
    As Brexiteers are so fond of remarking - imagine how crap the Tories must have been to lose to them, then.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dire economic figures this morning. Literally can't see a single positive from the release. Everything is bad and below expectations. Rachel Reeves needs to be sacked, she's completely shit at the job and has sent the country towards a completely unnecessary and unforced recession.

    The run up to the budget was a disaster, the budget even more so and now companies all across the country are gearing up for a new round of price rises and wage/hiring freezes. 2025 is going to be a horrible year for the private sector.

    I remember when you used to complain about the ONS being too pessimistic ;)
    My gut feeling is that these figures are optimistic. I expect the final ones to be lower.
    I don't doubt you have a better understanding of this than most people on here, but you will appreciate why there are some raised eyebrows at your volte face on ONS statistics since July '24.

    It's all irrelevant anyway, from a politics perspective. "American egg theory" suggests inflation is the main determinant of sentiment, independent of GDP and even wages.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    She was anti-woke. The others were at least as bad. Not much more to it than that.
    Cleverly was very clearly the best candidate. Admittedly, he may have been a victim of his team playing silly buggers with the voting.
  • I was out last night, sadly they didn’t accept cash so I had to leave on principle.

    Oh no, I just paid with my phone.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    MattW said:

    We have two kittens.

    They like sitting on the chairs in the study.

    I find Mittens sitting on my chair in the study. I move her onto my wife's chair.

    Mittens moves back behind me, leaving me perched on the front of the chair.

    I move Mittens onto the other chair, then go downstairs for a minute.

    I come back to find Mittens on my chair, and Kaplan on the other one.

    I move Mittens back to the other chair, beside her sister.

    Mittens immediately jumps back onto my chair.

    I give up, and work perched on the edge of my chair.

    I know my place in this household: subservient to the cats...

    Lordy, you surrendered quickly !
    I have been through this before... :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    edited December 13
    JENRICK takes on the mantle of Palmerston.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1867491326847033550
  • And in other news, the prat Prince Andrew is once again, deeply dodgy.

    Get rid, why are we paying for him?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Maybe PB should go the other way, and instead deliberately transpose a character in all leaders’ given names. Just for the LOLz.

    Ekmi Badenoch
    Sir De Davey
    Ingel Farage

    It could work.

    #humour

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    MattW said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    I'm not that convinced - except that Usonia is a horribly expensive, exploitative mess.

    The orders of the others may vary quite substantially with numbers from a different year, in Euros, or using PPP.

    Also it's only a subset of the OECD - where are impotant countries such as Spain, Italy etc.
    This looks very selective use of data. I would be more interested in outcomes/$ spent

    One of the reasons that US has a high spend and inequitable distribution is because the US government has used their health system for many years as a way to subsidise their highly successful healthcare, pharma and medical device industries. A proper economic analysis would be more interesting. This one looks like it has all the credibility of an assessment that might be done by someone who was, say, a Complaints Support Manager at Lloyds HSBC.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    edited December 13
    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
    But the bottom line is that the French system is miles better than ours both in terms of front line delivery of services and health outcomes. The same goes for much of the rest of Europe.

    And the French system is not 'payment at delivery' with the exception of the very sensible system of making people pay for GP visits then refunding it when they actually turn up. Indeed the French system generally is a lot less payment at delivery than our own when it comes to things like prescriptions and dentistry where much of the cost above a nominal 1 Euro per prescription is reimbursed by the state.
    I'm sure you're correct about outcomes, presciptions and dentistry, however key word there being "reimbursed", you pay then get reimbursed. Reimbursement is getting much quicker but creates problems for those who can't make the initial payment or access to a bank account.
    Streeting made the point on QT that the differences in delivery and outcomes between different health systems is almost entirely independent of how it is paid for. Which gives hope that he is focusing on delivery and outcomes not charging systems.
    I disagree entirely. The payment/reimbursment only applies to GP visits (for thespecific reason of discouraging missed appointments) and to things we already pay for in the UK - dentistry and prescriptions. And in those cases it is at a much lower level than in the UK and with reimbursment on top.

    You are criticising France for actually having fewer upfront payments (with the notable exception of GPs) than the UK. And if you are poor then those charges don't apply to you anyway.

    The French system is simply better than the NHS both in terms of its delivery and the way it is paid for.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    It's too early to say for sure whether Kemi is a dud, but it doesn't look great. The rules have now changed as to what makes an opposition leader. In good or goodish times (as perceived) it is enough to say how useless the government is - which is rarely a hard task given the range of government duties, from your GP appointment delay to foreign policy about Paraguay.

    In these times, we can all do the pointing out the problems. No help from the LOTO is required. The LOTO has to have credible and superior solutions and plans which add up in respect of our daily lives, tax, spend, borrow, fairness and national pride.

    They don't, and who the LOTO is makes no difference. Reform are much better at the LOTO task, but have the problem that everything they say happens to be false or over simplified.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 13
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Perhaps Musk sympathises with the murder of Brian Thompson.
    Suspect that every CEO in the US is taking a very big look at their personal security at the moment. Many healthcare companies have deleted “management team” biographies from websites in the past week.

    I’m genuinely interested if the incoming administration can un-fcuk healthcare in the US. Where I live the system is roughly similar, an insurance-based model, but without the total fcukery seen in the US, and it generally works well, without the massively inflated prices and contractual terms that are common Stateside.
    Hardly given the GOP opposition to socialised medicine
    No, the sandpit has pretty much the US system at a high level, an insurance-based model mostly sponsored by employers.

    Except that the pharmacy will tell you the price of any given drug, and the hospital will tell you the price of any given treatment, telling the pharmacist I have insurance doesn’t make a $10 drug suddenly have a $20 copay and a $200 bill sent somewhere that gets rebated $150 back to the “Pharmacy Benefit Manager” that’s owned by the insurance company.

    That’s all before we start on Medicare and Medicaid not being allowed to negotiate prices on drugs, they either have to pay the list price or not carry them, as the manufacturers spend literally billions on end-user TV advertisements and billions more on marketing drugs to doctors with commissions on prescription.

    Oh, and every doctor needs to spend $250k per year on professional indemnity insurance, because you’ll need a lawyer on rentention to be an American doctor.

    The US healthcare system is actually that fcuked, anything the incoming administration can do to unfcuk it is going to be beneficial to millions of Americans.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    She was anti-woke. The others were at least as bad. Not much more to it than that.
    Cleverly was very clearly the best candidate. Admittedly, he may have been a victim of his team playing silly buggers with the voting.
    They all have different faults. He thought joking about drugging and raping his wife was a sensible thing to do in public. He would have been a disaster too.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    And in other news, the prat Prince Andrew is once again, deeply dodgy.

    Get rid, why are we paying for him?

    I didn't realise you were? What have you been paying him for, exactly?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited December 13

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Point of Order

    This is a Conservative Party fansite please do not critique Conservatives. You need to understand that Kemi beasted Starmer over sandwiches and Reeves has squandered the golden legacy. Also please be aware Brexit is going well and the Rwanda removal scheme was a work of genius. If you have any questions just ask @Alanbrook Taz or @FrancisUrquhart they are here to help throughout the day.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Reassuring to see people are more and more turning to cash to help them budget

    Now one in five purchases are cash.

    This is nice to see

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1el81lenq1o.amp
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    edited December 13

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Point of Order

    This is a Conservative Party fansite please do not critique Conservatives. You need to understand that Kemi beasted Starmer over sandwiches and Reeves has squandered the golden legacy. Also please be aware Brexit is going well and the Rwanda removal scheme was a work of genius. If you have any questions just ask @Alanbrook Taz or @FrancisUrquhart they are here to help throughout the day.
    I am not even a Tory, I have never supported Rwanda or Brexit. Can you please unhook me from this as I do not want the notifications and I have no wish to engage with you.

    Thank you in anticipation.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    edited December 13

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    She was anti-woke. The others were at least as bad. Not much more to it than that.
    Cleverly was very clearly the best candidate. Admittedly, he may have been a victim of his team playing silly buggers with the voting.
    They all have different faults. He thought joking about drugging and raping his wife was a sensible thing to do in public. He would have been a disaster too.
    Start from who has the best set of solutions to the perfect political/global/fiscal/economic storm in which we are at a preliminary stage; and any outstanding candidate will soon emerge under that scrutiny. Names anyone?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
    But the bottom line is that the French system is miles better than ours both in terms of front line delivery of services and health outcomes. The same goes for much of the rest of Europe.

    And the French system is not 'payment at delivery' with the exception of the very sensible system of making people pay for GP visits then refunding it when they actually turn up. Indeed the French system generally is a lot less payment at delivery than our own when it comes to things like prescriptions and dentistry where much of the cost above a nominal 1 Euro per prescription is reimbursed by the state.
    I'm sure you're correct about outcomes, presciptions and dentistry, however key word there being "reimbursed", you pay then get reimbursed. Reimbursement is getting much quicker but creates problems for those who can't make the initial payment or access to a bank account.
    Streeting made the point on QT that the differences in delivery and outcomes between different health systems is almost entirely independent of how it is paid for. Which gives hope that he is focusing on delivery and outcomes not charging systems.
    I disagree entirely. The payment/reimbursment only applies to GP visits (for thespecific reason of discouraging missed appointments) and to things we already pay for in the UK - dentistry and prescriptions. And in those cases it is at a much lower level than in the UK and with reimbursment on top.

    You are criticising France for actually having fewer upfront payments (with the notable exception of GPs) than the UK. And if you are poor then those charges don't apply to you anyway.

    The French system is simply better than the NHS both in terms of its delivery and the way it is paid for.
    My experience is that pretty much every healthcare system in Europe is better than NHS. The NHS is a system that is designed to benefit it's staff, and in particular the featherbedded medical profession, rather than benefit patients
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    algarkirk said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    It's too early to say for sure whether Kemi is a dud, but it doesn't look great. The rules have now changed as to what makes an opposition leader. In good or goodish times (as perceived) it is enough to say how useless the government is - which is rarely a hard task given the range of government duties, from your GP appointment delay to foreign policy about Paraguay.

    In these times, we can all do the pointing out the problems. No help from the LOTO is required. The LOTO has to have credible and superior solutions and plans which add up in respect of our daily lives, tax, spend, borrow, fairness and national pride.

    They don't, and who the LOTO is makes no difference. Reform are much better at the LOTO task, but have the problem that everything they say happens to be false or over simplified.
    Reform are good at the LOTO task because everything they say happens to be false or over simplified. They provide easy solutions to difficult questions and a lot of the population isn’t bright enough to see the gaps in their plans
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    https://x.com/nypost/status/1867378247886852291

    Biden slammed for commuting sentence of notorious ‘Kids-for-Cash’ judge convicted of imprisoning juveniles for $2.1M kickbacks

    and the useless twat hasn’t even used his new powers properly by having Trump, Vance, Musk, Kennedy, that weird drunken creep off Fox and all members of the Supreme Court shot yet.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    I was out last night, sadly they didn’t accept cash so I had to leave on principle.

    Oh no, I just paid with my phone.

    :D
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Taz said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Point of Order

    This is a Conservative Party fansite please do not critique Conservatives. You need to understand that Kemi beasted Starmer over sandwiches and Reeves has squandered the golden legacy. Also please be aware Brexit is going well and the Rwanda removal scheme was a work of genius. If you have any questions just ask @Alanbrook @Taz or @FrancisUrquhart they are here to help throughout the day.
    Please unhook me from your deranged rants.
    Just give me another flag.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dire economic figures this morning. Literally can't see a single positive from the release. Everything is bad and below expectations. Rachel Reeves needs to be sacked, she's completely shit at the job and has sent the country towards a completely unnecessary and unforced recession.

    The run up to the budget was a disaster, the budget even more so and now companies all across the country are gearing up for a new round of price rises and wage/hiring freezes. 2025 is going to be a horrible year for the private sector.

    I remember when you used to complain about the ONS being too pessimistic ;)
    My gut feeling is that these figures are optimistic. I expect the final ones to be lower.
    I don't doubt you have a better understanding of this than most people on here, but you will appreciate why there are some raised eyebrows at your volte face on ONS statistics since July '24.

    It's all irrelevant anyway, from a politics perspective. "American egg theory" suggests inflation is the main determinant of sentiment, independent of GDP and even wages.

    It's just a feeling and agree on inflation/prices. Disinflation isn't enough. We need a period of constant decline in food prices for people to feel better off. I assume government has made it possible for supermarkets and food producers to lower their operating costs, oh right.
  • Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    Partly, an incredible amount of ambition. She give the impression of really, really wanting the job. That helps you get to the top in politics, even if it is a huge red flag in terms of being suitable.

    Mostly, that most of the alternatives are visibly worse. Jenrick is too cynical in his nastiness, Morduant too not-an-MP, Hunt too past it. Cleverly would probably be better, but mostly because I think he would appreciate the absurdity of the situation more.

    The next few years are where the purges of 2019 threaten to really come back and bite the Conservatives on the bottom. Even if they want to change direction fundamentally, they don't really have the people to do so.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Perhaps Musk sympathises with the murder of Brian Thompson.
    Suspect that every CEO in the US is taking a very big look at their personal security at the moment. Many healthcare companies have deleted “management team” biographies from websites in the past week.

    I’m genuinely interested if the incoming administration can un-fcuk healthcare in the US. Where I live the system is roughly similar, an insurance-based model, but without the total fcukery seen in the US, and it generally works well, without the massively inflated prices and contractual terms that are common Stateside.
    Hardly given the GOP opposition to socialised medicine
    Good morning everyone.

    'Socialised medicine' is not what Mr S said, or even suggested. He implied, AIUI, that a reasonably economical insurance based health system is possible.
    Whether it works for those at the bottom of the sandpit, especially if their savings go to SE Asia, I';d be interested to learn.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Taz said:

    Reassuring to see people are more and more turning to cash to help them budget

    Now one in five purchases are cash.

    This is nice to see

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1el81lenq1o.amp

    This had already been noted.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    And in other news, the prat Prince Andrew is once again, deeply dodgy.

    Get rid, why are we paying for him?

    This current disaster is once again created by Prince Andrew trying to find a source of income that isn’t his brother
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.

    You do realise that that tweet is a joke, yes?
    It’s not a joke, it’s a very pointed parody of the gender theory that’s left thousands of children and young adults mutilated over the past decade.
    I also take it as a parody of the trans-haters who get wound up by people being different. :)
    There’s no-one hating trans people.

    The problem is when natural teenage confusion is being medicalised, and vulnerable and confused children are being pushed in a particular direction by adults pushing a wider agenda.
    There are loads of people hating trans people. The agenda for many of the trans-haters is for there to be *no* trans people. That's their ideology.
    Like who? Does anyone have a problem with Caitlin Jenner or Blaire White being transgender?

    The opposition, as far as I can see, is against the activists trying to push transgenderism on children.
    As an example: when did you last say anything positive about a trans person, rather than ranting on about the 'parody of the gender theory' ?

    Your last line is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's all the 'opposition' is about...
    I gave two positive examples of transgender people in my post above. The opposition isn’t about transgender people, it’s about such concepts being heavily promoted to children.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 13
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Perhaps Musk sympathises with the murder of Brian Thompson.
    Suspect that every CEO in the US is taking a very big look at their personal security at the moment. Many healthcare companies have deleted “management team” biographies from websites in the past week.

    I’m genuinely interested if the incoming administration can un-fcuk healthcare in the US. Where I live the system is roughly similar, an insurance-based model, but without the total fcukery seen in the US, and it generally works well, without the massively inflated prices and contractual terms that are common Stateside.
    Hardly given the GOP opposition to socialised medicine
    No, the sandpit has pretty much the US system at a high level, an insurance-based model mostly sponsored by employers.

    Except that the pharmacy will tell you the price of any given drug, and the hospital will tell you the price of any given treatment, telling the pharmacist I have insurance doesn’t make a $10 drug suddenly have a $20 copay and a $200 bill sent somewhere that gets rebated $150 back to the “Pharmacy Benefit Manager” that’s owned by the insurance company.

    That’s all before we start on Medicare and Medicaid not being allowed to negotiate prices on drugs, they either have to pay the list price or not carry them, as the manufacturers spend literally billions on end-user TV advertisements and billions more on marketing drugs to doctors with commissions on prescription.

    Oh, and every doctor needs to spend $250k per year on professional indemnity insurance, because you’ll need a lawyer on rentention to be an American doctor.

    The US healthcare system is actually that fcuked.
    AIUI Medicare and Mecaid ARE allowed to negotiate prices of drugs, and have saved hundreds of millions already, under the Biden reforms in the Inflation Reduction Act, ... which I think Trump has promised to roll back.

    I'm not all over this though, so I'd welcome others commenting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    She was anti-woke. The others were at least as bad. Not much more to it than that.
    Cleverly was very clearly the best candidate. Admittedly, he may have been a victim of his team playing silly buggers with the voting.
    Labour are down to just 26% anyway, Cleverly wouldn't have been able to squeeze Reform on around 20% now anymore than Kemi. Jenrick might but at risk of a bit more Tory leakage to Labour and the LDs
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Reassuring to see people are more and more turning to cash to help them budget

    Now one in five purchases are cash.

    This is nice to see

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1el81lenq1o.amp

    This had already been noted.
    That is good to know. I do not post here all the time so miss stuff that gets posted from time to time
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    Maybe PB should go the other way, and instead deliberately transpose a character in all leaders’ given names. Just for the LOLz.

    Ekmi Badenoch
    Sir De Davey
    Ingel Farage

    It could work.

    #humour

    Except...the End of the Kier Show does actually work, on a mildly humorous level.

    Your offerings? Not so much at all.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited December 13

    I was out last night, sadly they didn’t accept cash so I had to leave on principle.

    Oh no, I just paid with my phone.

    I went into the new pub in my neighbourhood the other night.

    It does not accept cash. So I walked off...

    ...to its contactless machine, where I paid with my watch.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Kemi is a dud. But no idea why this should surprise anyone. She was useless, absent and cowardly as BizSec, as many of us pointed out repeatedly.

    What on Earth commended her to the top job? What credentials did/does she have?

    The whole episode is weird beyond measure.

    She was anti-woke. The others were at least as bad. Not much more to it than that.
    Cleverly was very clearly the best candidate. Admittedly, he may have been a victim of his team playing silly buggers with the voting.
    Labour are down to just 26% anyway, Cleverly wouldn't have been able to squeeze Reform on around 20% now anymore than Kemi. Jenrick might but at risk of a bit more Tory leakage to Labour and the LDs
    Aren't we supposed to combine the Con and Ref numbers to get our Tory lead?
This discussion has been closed.