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What is it about British party leaders and sandwiches? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited December 17 in General
imageWhat is it about British party leaders and sandwiches? – politicalbetting.com

Ed Miliband must sympathise with Kemi Badenoch today. Given how he was mercilessly mocked over his attempt to eat a bacon sandwich seeing Kemi Badenoch getting mocked over her views on sandwiches Tories cannot complain about the coverage meted out to Kemi Badenoch.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo
  • BBC annoyed that he won't share his podcast with them anymore?

    Steven Bartlett sharing harmful health misinformation in Diary of CEO podcast
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gpz163vg2o
  • The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    Yup, she's utter Brexit.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,143
    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Only 5 more days until the evenings start getting longer. I feel as though this year the darkness has been particularly awful.

    Interestingly, in Los Angeles the evening have already started moving back. (Albeit the days are still shortening slightly.)

    Which I find really weird. Intuitively, it feels like it should be the same everywhere.
    I think it is? Our sunsets have peaked, in terms of earliness, as well.
    Nope, earliest sunset is 14th.
    Not here, and not sure about elsewhere
    Apologies, looks like it is today. Nine straight days of sunset at 15:51, the 12th is in the middle of the range:

    https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
    Here in the IOW the sunset time was identical for both Dec 11 and 12, and tonight will edge later by just a few seconds.

    Remember that the changing sunset time is a combination of clock effect - the differing pace of the earth around the sun compared to steady clock time - and geometric effect - the changing angle of the sun’s track against the horizon, as the tilt of the earth turns a little more toward or away from the sun.

    The clock effect is the same everywhere, but the geometric effect varies by latitude. Because the change in sunset time is the difference between (or sum of, depending on which way it’s going) the two effects, the actual day when the sun sets earliest or latest can be different by a day either way, in different locations - because the net daily change at the solstices is only a few seconds - or, in the islands case yesterday, remarkably evened out at zero seconds such that two days running had exactly the same sunset time.
  • England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,776
    Ominous that lettuce is prominent in the Star's depiction of Badenoch's sandwich.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    Yup, she's utter Brexit.
    We are forever grateful to Dave Cameron for the referendum and ro George Osborne for his mismanaged campaign.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884
    edited December 13
    In the picture the fragrant Kemi looks like the Queen of the sandwich. Starmer is portrayed as a hapless clown. One can only deduce from the picture (and no one reads text in the Daily Star) that Kemi has won this campaign. Very impressive and shrewd politics.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,591
    IanB2 said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Only 5 more days until the evenings start getting longer. I feel as though this year the darkness has been particularly awful.

    Interestingly, in Los Angeles the evening have already started moving back. (Albeit the days are still shortening slightly.)

    Which I find really weird. Intuitively, it feels like it should be the same everywhere.
    I think it is? Our sunsets have peaked, in terms of earliness, as well.
    Nope, earliest sunset is 14th.
    Not here, and not sure about elsewhere
    Apologies, looks like it is today. Nine straight days of sunset at 15:51, the 12th is in the middle of the range:

    https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
    Here in the IOW the sunset time was identical for both Dec 11 and 12, and tonight will edge later by just a few seconds.

    Remember that the changing sunset time is a combination of clock effect - the differing pace of the earth around the sun compared to steady clock time - and geometric effect - the changing angle of the sun’s track against the horizon, as the tilt of the earth turns a little more toward or away from the sun.

    The clock effect is the same everywhere, but the geometric effect varies by latitude. Because the change in sunset time is the difference between (or sum of, depending on which way it’s going) the two effects, the actual day when the sun sets earliest or latest can be different by a day either way, in different locations - because the net daily change at the solstices is only a few seconds - or, in the islands case yesterday, remarkably evened out at zero seconds such that two days running had exactly the same sunset time.
    Weirdly, LA started getting lighter in the evenings about a week ago.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    May still be too centre right for Melenchon but might be OK for Le Pen if he reduced spending cuts proposed
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Only 5 more days until the evenings start getting longer. I feel as though this year the darkness has been particularly awful.

    Interestingly, in Los Angeles the evening have already started moving back. (Albeit the days are still shortening slightly.)

    Which I find really weird. Intuitively, it feels like it should be the same everywhere.
    I think it is? Our sunsets have peaked, in terms of earliness, as well.
    Nope, earliest sunset is 14th.
    Not here, and not sure about elsewhere
    Apologies, looks like it is today. Nine straight days of sunset at 15:51, the 12th is in the middle of the range:

    https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
    Here in the IOW the sunset time was identical for both Dec 11 and 12, and tonight will edge later by just a few seconds.

    Remember that the changing sunset time is a combination of clock effect - the differing pace of the earth around the sun compared to steady clock time - and geometric effect - the changing angle of the sun’s track against the horizon, as the tilt of the earth turns a little more toward or away from the sun.

    The clock effect is the same everywhere, but the geometric effect varies by latitude. Because the change in sunset time is the difference between (or sum of, depending on which way it’s going) the two effects, the actual day when the sun sets earliest or latest can be different by a day either way, in different locations - because the net daily change at the solstices is only a few seconds - or, in the islands case yesterday, remarkably evened out at zero seconds such that two days running had exactly the same sunset time.
    Weirdly, LA started getting lighter in the evenings about a week ago.
    A metaphor for the incoming Trump administration?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,700
    Chris said:

    Ominous that lettuce is prominent in the Star's depiction of Badenoch's sandwich.

    Ridiculous. She's not eating up the Greens.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,143
    edited December 13
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Only 5 more days until the evenings start getting longer. I feel as though this year the darkness has been particularly awful.

    Interestingly, in Los Angeles the evening have already started moving back. (Albeit the days are still shortening slightly.)

    Which I find really weird. Intuitively, it feels like it should be the same everywhere.
    I think it is? Our sunsets have peaked, in terms of earliness, as well.
    Nope, earliest sunset is 14th.
    Not here, and not sure about elsewhere
    Apologies, looks like it is today. Nine straight days of sunset at 15:51, the 12th is in the middle of the range:

    https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
    Here in the IOW the sunset time was identical for both Dec 11 and 12, and tonight will edge later by just a few seconds.

    Remember that the changing sunset time is a combination of clock effect - the differing pace of the earth around the sun compared to steady clock time - and geometric effect - the changing angle of the sun’s track against the horizon, as the tilt of the earth turns a little more toward or away from the sun.

    The clock effect is the same everywhere, but the geometric effect varies by latitude. Because the change in sunset time is the difference between (or sum of, depending on which way it’s going) the two effects, the actual day when the sun sets earliest or latest can be different by a day either way, in different locations - because the net daily change at the solstices is only a few seconds - or, in the islands case yesterday, remarkably evened out at zero seconds such that two days running had exactly the same sunset time.
    Weirdly, LA started getting lighter in the evenings about a week ago.
    Yes, it looks like it was the 5th. Clearly when the daily difference is only seconds, the difference in geometric effect by latitude can cause the earliest day to move by several days. Sunil in London has it at the 12th, here on the island, just a little further south, the 11th and 12th were the same, and shifting significantly further south to LA puts your earliest sunset much earlier at the 5th.

    LA does however have to wait until after the first few days of January before its sunrise starts to improve.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    HYUFD said:

    May still be too centre right for Melenchon but might be OK for Le Pen if he reduced spending cuts proposed
    Some of the reactions have been less than positive, hard to see how this is any better then Barnier. I never quite understand the attraction of Bayrou his political career has been largely pontificating from the sidelines rather than doing anything. much
  • England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,700

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    If they get ducks after that, we're blaming you.
  • England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited December 13

    England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    edited December 13

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    They can't blame the Tories for this one.

    They will, but they own this. Largely down to their doom and gloom and talking down the economy,

    "KPMG's chief economist Yael Selfin said that activity was "held back by uncertainty ahead of the Budget on 30 October" as businesses and consumers held back on spending."
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956

    HYUFD said:

    May still be too centre right for Melenchon but might be OK for Le Pen if he reduced spending cuts proposed
    Some of the reactions have been less than positive, hard to see how this is any better then Barnier. I never quite understand the attraction of Bayrou his political career has been largely pontificating from the sidelines rather than doing anything. much
    So a French Lib Dem
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    May still be too centre right for Melenchon but might be OK for Le Pen if he reduced spending cuts proposed
    Some of the reactions have been less than positive, hard to see how this is any better then Barnier. I never quite understand the attraction of Bayrou his political career has been largely pontificating from the sidelines rather than doing anything. much
    So a French Lib Dem
    Poor bastards.

    Haven't they suffered enough?
    Allez Les Beige
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 13
    Good morning everyone.

    I need context on the header.

    Was John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, a Tory? Has Kemi forgotten her tradition, or correctly rejected a subversive Whig social structure that is destroying our society from within?

    I think @HYUFD might know.

    (I also question the verisimilitude of the Star's sandwich. I really don't think Kemi is a Kingsmill Mighty White girl, even in caricature. Though having been force fed such sandwiches as a child would go some way to justify her fear of sandwiches; it's a recognised cause of sandwich-focused cibophobia .

    https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/why-some-people-have-a-food-phobia-fear-of-sandwiches-article )
  • England not batting deep.....

    Potts replaces Woakes for final New Zealand Test
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/ce8xgplj0zro

    No need for England to bat deep when they have Root and Brook.
    Bookmarked for this time tomorrow....
    Look Brook is better than Bradman and Root is our greatest ever batter, plus they are from Yorkshire.
    Shouldn't that be 'despite playing for Yorkshire'?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    In the picture the fragrant Kemi looks like the Queen of the sandwich. Starmer is portrayed as a hapless clown. One can only deduce from the picture (and no one reads text in the Daily Star) that Kemi has won this campaign. Very impressive and shrewd politics.

    Definite parallels between Badenoch and Brexit, supporters have associated their fantasy outcome to both and are now struggling to accept the shit reality. Far fewer deluded supporters in Badenoch's case though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 13
  • I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,286
    edited December 13
    FPT @Casino_Royale

    Politicalbetting in 2024:

    Murder is valuable political theatre.

    I didn't say I approve of it (it is just another case of the rule of law being dismantled, and terrifies me because of the precedent it sets).

    However, the reaction to it reveals something significant about our (or rather the USA's) politics which we would do well to take notice of given that they are still such a close ally of ours.

    Whatever you or I think about people's reactions, we live in a democracy and the majority generally gets what it wants, however damaging cf Brexit. In that sense we have just witnessed a valuable piece of political theatre because it has shown us a significant political view (murder is justified as a response to the inequitable healthcare system) that we might otherwise not have been aware of.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 13
    An important article in yesterday's Financial Times - Russia using FPV drones to target civilians in Kherson and other places.

    We've seen reports; this is more detailed analysis.

    Russia uses civilians as ‘target practice’ for killer drones
    Southern Ukrainian city of Kherson hit more than 9,500 times as Moscow attempts to drive out residents


    Full article: https://archive.is/20241204061855/https://www.ft.com/content/31b630b3-2639-456c-ba50-3caea7a9b2b5

    (You also get free access if you download the FT Edit app. I have no idea if that is good, but I thought I should mention.)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Taz said:

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    They can't blame the Tories for this one.

    They will, but they own this. Largely down to their doom and gloom and talking down the economy,

    "KPMG's chief economist Yael Selfin said that activity was "held back by uncertainty ahead of the Budget on 30 October" as businesses and consumers held back on spending."
    problem is the budget wont do anything to cheer people up so odds on November being bad too. Technically we could be heading for a recession.

    All of this was avoidable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    .
    MattW said:
    Pain perdu...

    You're saying he's French toast ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967

    In the picture the fragrant Kemi looks like the Queen of the sandwich. Starmer is portrayed as a hapless clown. One can only deduce from the picture (and no one reads text in the Daily Star) that Kemi has won this campaign. Very impressive and shrewd politics.

    Would rather be Kemi in that picture than EdM in his famous bacon sandwich picture, that’s for sure.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956

    Taz said:

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    They can't blame the Tories for this one.

    They will, but they own this. Largely down to their doom and gloom and talking down the economy,

    "KPMG's chief economist Yael Selfin said that activity was "held back by uncertainty ahead of the Budget on 30 October" as businesses and consumers held back on spending."
    problem is the budget wont do anything to cheer people up so odds on November being bad too. Technically we could be heading for a recession.

    All of this was avoidable.
    It is a massive self inflicted wound. They really overdid the doom and gloom.

    I think Rachel Reeves comment is a little bit delusional too. I cannot see how her policies are going to deliver the long term growth we need and the current trend is for job openings to shrink in response to the changes to NI in the budget. The "they should just take it from their profits, my heart bleeds for the multi millionaires running these companies who can pay for it" brigade will not be so smug about it when the effects of the changes start to impact.

    "Chancellor Rachel Reeves said the figure was "disappointing", but added: "We have put in place policies to deliver long-term economic growth.""
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    .
    maxh said:

    FPT @Casino_Royale

    Politicalbetting in 2024:

    Murder is valuable political theatre.

    I didn't say I approve of it (it is just another case of the rule of law being dismantled, and terrifies me because of the precedent it sets).

    However, the reaction to it reveals something significant about our (or rather the USA's) politics which we would do well to take notice of given that they are still such a close ally of ours.

    Whatever you or I think about people's reactions, we live in a democracy and the majority generally gets what it wants, however damaging cf Brexit. In that sense we have just witnessed a valuable piece of political theatre because it has shown us a significant political view (murder is justified as a response to the inequitable healthcare system) that we might otherwise not have been aware of.
    A couple of unwarranted assumptions there.

    The majority frequently don't get what they want. And social media reaction often isn't significant.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967

    Taz said:

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    They can't blame the Tories for this one.

    They will, but they own this. Largely down to their doom and gloom and talking down the economy,

    "KPMG's chief economist Yael Selfin said that activity was "held back by uncertainty ahead of the Budget on 30 October" as businesses and consumers held back on spending."
    problem is the budget wont do anything to cheer people up so odds on November being bad too. Technically we could be heading for a recession.

    All of this was avoidable.
    December could be a nightmare for F&B too, how many companies are cutting down on the extravagance of Christmas parties?
  • I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Partly it's the same old Debate Soc nonsense that saying something attention-grabbing is more important than actual plans to make things better. Partly it's that Kemi B clearly does have a plan- she has spoken before about cutting whole fields of government activity- but she doesn't want to spell out examples, for obvious reasons.

    But mostly, it's that the British Right are borderline crazy- both she and the Spectator thought this was a good idea.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,027
    Dire economic figures this morning. Literally can't see a single positive from the release. Everything is bad and below expectations. Rachel Reeves needs to be sacked, she's completely shit at the job and has sent the country towards a completely unnecessary and unforced recession.

    The run up to the budget was a disaster, the budget even more so and now companies all across the country are gearing up for a new round of price rises and wage/hiring freezes. 2025 is going to be a horrible year for the private sector.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    MattW said:

    An important article in yesterday's Financial Times - Russia using FPV drones to target civilians in Kherson and other places.

    We've seen reports; this is more detailed analysis.

    Russia uses civilians as ‘target practice’ for killer drones
    Southern Ukrainian city of Kherson hit more than 9,500 times as Moscow attempts to drive out residents


    Full article: https://archive.is/20241204061855/https://www.ft.com/content/31b630b3-2639-456c-ba50-3caea7a9b2b5

    (You also get free access if you download the FT Edit app. I have no idea if that is good, but I thought I should mention.)

    Missing from yesterday’s discussion about casualty numbers, is that one side is also murdering civilians and killing surrendering soldiers in cold blood, both very much war crimes.

    The Ukranian defenders, on the other hand, have mostly been very observant of the Geneva conventions, and even when they went into Kursk did not attack civilians.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    MaxPB said:

    Dire economic figures this morning. Literally can't see a single positive from the release. Everything is bad and below expectations. Rachel Reeves needs to be sacked, she's completely shit at the job and has sent the country towards a completely unnecessary and unforced recession.

    The run up to the budget was a disaster, the budget even more so and now companies all across the country are gearing up for a new round of price rises and wage/hiring freezes. 2025 is going to be a horrible year for the private sector.

    And a very happy Fri 13th to you too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    This sounds familiar.

    Is Yoon out of his mind? Possibly, according to psychiatrists

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=388388
    President Yoon Suk Yeol claims that his declaration of martial law is justified as a decisive act of governance. But a group of psychiatrists warn that he may be "in a state of danger in which he might require a psychiatric evaluation."

    One psychiatrist said on condition of anonymity Friday that Yoon could have a "narcissist personality type," leaving him unable to endure criticisms for his wrongdoings.

    "The fundamental problem is that (a narcissist) is unable to properly self-reflect and keeps finding information that justifies what they did," the doctor said, explaining that such a person tends to make more enemies and keep creating objects of hatred when they are driven into a corner...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,324
    edited December 13
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I need context on the header.

    Was John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, a Tory? Has Kemi forgotten her tradition, or correctly rejected a subversive Whig social structure that is destroying our society from within?

    I think @HYUFD might know.

    (I also question the verisimilitude of the Star's sandwich. I really don't think Kemi is a Kingsmill Mighty White girl, even in caricature. Though having been force fed such sandwiches as a child would go some way to justify her fear of sandwiches; it's a recognised cause of sandwich-focused cibophobia .

    https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/why-some-people-have-a-food-phobia-fear-of-sandwiches-article )

    Oxford DNB says a Whig, certainly to begin with. I hadn't realised the sarnie chap was the same as the noted naval pol/administrator, or that he was an important supporter of music.

    ODNB does not mention sarnies ...

    Edit: in the Grenville administration. But prosecuted Wilkes.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    What are you blathering on about?

    Whether someone likes a sandwich or not is clearly more important than that!

    (And she was obviously just channeling what she says to her kids when they claim that a sandwich is sufficient nutrition)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 13
    Taz said:
    Nice reference.

    Arthur Mee (Of "The Kings England" 1930s guide books, and the Childrens Newspaper) in Monty Python. I can see that the Python Oxbridge set would know him.

    In my architectural set he's viewed as trying to do a Pevsner or Betjeman, but being hampered by a stereotypical Rudyard Kipling worldview.

    Mee had one child, but, despite his work, declared that he had no particular affinity with children. His works for them suggest[to whom?] that his interest was in trying to encourage the raising of a generation of patriotic and moral citizens. (Wiki).

    He came from Stapleford, and went from child of a railwayman to literary editor of the Daily Mail before 1900, and made good.

    I like this:
    As a boy he earned money from reading the reports of Parliament to a local blind man.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    They can't blame the Tories for this one.

    They will, but they own this. Largely down to their doom and gloom and talking down the economy,

    "KPMG's chief economist Yael Selfin said that activity was "held back by uncertainty ahead of the Budget on 30 October" as businesses and consumers held back on spending."
    problem is the budget wont do anything to cheer people up so odds on November being bad too. Technically we could be heading for a recession.

    All of this was avoidable.
    December could be a nightmare for F&B too, how many companies are cutting down on the extravagance of Christmas parties?
    Purely anecdotally we approached a venue to book in August for our do. They came back and declined, min spend needed to be something way above our budget, which was lower than last year as we have not had as good a year. The company pays for a set number of drinks and a hot buffet.

    We put it on the backburner. Looked at a couple of others but nothing of any

    They came back to us a couple of months later and offered us the room at the price we had budgeted for as they had had no takers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,324
    MattW said:

    Taz said:
    Nice reference.

    Arthur Mee (Of "The Kings England" 1930s guide books, and the Childrens Newspaper) in Monty Python. I can see that the Python Oxbridge e set would know him.

    In my architectural set he's viewed as trying to do a Pevsner or Betjeman, but being hampered by a stereotypical Rudyard Kipling worldview.

    Mee had one child, but, despite his work, declared that he had no particular affinity with children. His works for them suggest[to whom?] that his interest was in trying to encourage the raising of a generation of patriotic and moral citizens. (Wiki).

    He came from Stapleford, and went from child of a railwayman to literary editor of the Daily Mail before 1900, and made good.

    I like this:
    As a boy he earned money from reading the reports of Parliament to a local blind man.
    Also the Children's Encyclopaedia.

    I had my father's one as a child - loved it, especially the bits on prehistoric animals and steam locos. Aeroplanes a bit out of date by then though.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,324
    edited December 13
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    They can't blame the Tories for this one.

    They will, but they own this. Largely down to their doom and gloom and talking down the economy,

    "KPMG's chief economist Yael Selfin said that activity was "held back by uncertainty ahead of the Budget on 30 October" as businesses and consumers held back on spending."
    problem is the budget wont do anything to cheer people up so odds on November being bad too. Technically we could be heading for a recession.

    All of this was avoidable.
    December could be a nightmare for F&B too, how many companies are cutting down on the extravagance of Christmas parties?
    Purely anecdotally we approached a venue to book in August for our do. They came back and declined, min spend needed to be something way above our budget, which was lower than last year as we have not had as good a year. The company pays for a set number of drinks and a hot buffet.

    We put it on the backburner. Looked at a couple of others but nothing of any

    They came back to us a couple of months later and offered us the room at the price we had budgeted for as they had had no takers.
    No wonder the country is going to the dogs if companies are pampering their staffs with free food and drink at their customers' expense.

    Well, PB rightists have of late been going on about their fantasies of orgies in the public sector, completely detached from reality, in contrast to the situation in the private sector ...

    Edit: tongue in cheek ...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Only 5 more days until the evenings start getting longer. I feel as though this year the darkness has been particularly awful.

    Interestingly, in Los Angeles the evening have already started moving back. (Albeit the days are still shortening slightly.)

    Which I find really weird. Intuitively, it feels like it should be the same everywhere.
    I think it is? Our sunsets have peaked, in terms of earliness, as well.
    Nope, earliest sunset is 14th.
    Not here, and not sure about elsewhere
    Apologies, looks like it is today. Nine straight days of sunset at 15:51, the 12th is in the middle of the range:

    https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
    Here in the IOW the sunset time was identical for both Dec 11 and 12, and tonight will edge later by just a few seconds.

    Remember that the changing sunset time is a combination of clock effect - the differing pace of the earth around the sun compared to steady clock time - and geometric effect - the changing angle of the sun’s track against the horizon, as the tilt of the earth turns a little more toward or away from the sun.

    The clock effect is the same everywhere, but the geometric effect varies by latitude. Because the change in sunset time is the difference between (or sum of, depending on which way it’s going) the two effects, the actual day when the sun sets earliest or latest can be different by a day either way, in different locations - because the net daily change at the solstices is only a few seconds - or, in the islands case yesterday, remarkably evened out at zero seconds such that two days running had exactly the same sunset time.

    Weirdly, LA started getting lighter in the evenings about a week ago.
    Are you sure that’s not Malibu?

    https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/11/malibu-wildfire-evacuation-celebrity-mansions
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    theProle said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    To be fair, it's not really Kemi's fault we're all talking about this. She made some fairly offhand remarks about what she likes for lunch in the middle of a longish interview, and the media has promptly gone nuts.
    The problem is really a media which doesn't understand or explain big issues, so instead is reduced to shouting about personalities.
    The media understands its market. This is all about clickbait and driving traffic. I agree it is not Kemi;s fault, and this is nothing really sinister about lunch or deep and meaningful, but the media presents what will interest people and keep them coming back. It is why so many local rags and the likes of the Express constantly have "updates" about WASPI payouts for example. Engagement farming based on something said that was sensational.

    I doubt the Spectator are too unhappy about it either if it is driving them traffic.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    theProle said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    To be fair, it's not really Kemi's fault we're all talking about this. She made some fairly offhand remarks about what she likes for lunch in the middle of a longish interview, and the media has promptly gone nuts.
    The problem is really a media which doesn't understand or explain big issues, so instead is reduced to shouting about personalities.
    It really is.

    Had she anything interesting to say about the "big issues", it would have been reported.

    An opposition leader facing four and a half years of the other party in government shouldn't be saying she had no time for lunch.

    Lack of thinking, not time, is her problem.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,111

    HYUFD said:

    May still be too centre right for Melenchon but might be OK for Le Pen if he reduced spending cuts proposed
    Some of the reactions have been less than positive, hard to see how this is any better then Barnier. I never quite understand the attraction of Bayrou his political career has been largely pontificating from the sidelines rather than doing anything. much
    So he's more like Reform than a Lib Dem?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 13

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Serious answer. IMO it's fine, and perhaps necessary, alongside the heavier stuff - as long as the serious side is not displaced. Whether that has happened is a different debate, and imo is more about the Cons currently being a vacuum.

    Did Churchill and the MPs have a lighter side during WW2? They certainly looked beyond the immediate - they were talking about what future society would be in 1941 and 1942, eg the committee behind the The Beveridge Report was appointed one month after the London Blitz.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    edited December 13

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Your post is part of the problem.

    She was asked about foods she liked and disliked. She said what she clearly tells her children (“sandwiches aren’t real food” - what else do you say to an 8 year old who claims a PBJ is sufficient nutrition?).

    It’s not a policy or a culture war or a tactical judgement. It’s just something she said
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    Taz said:

    theProle said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    To be fair, it's not really Kemi's fault we're all talking about this. She made some fairly offhand remarks about what she likes for lunch in the middle of a longish interview, and the media has promptly gone nuts.
    The problem is really a media which doesn't understand or explain big issues, so instead is reduced to shouting about personalities.
    The media understands its market. This is all about clickbait and driving traffic. I agree it is not Kemi;s fault, and this is nothing really sinister about lunch or deep and meaningful, but the media presents what will interest people and keep them coming back. It is why so many local rags and the likes of the Express constantly have "updates" about WASPI payouts for example. Engagement farming based on something said that was sensational.

    I doubt the Spectator are too unhappy about it either if it is driving them traffic.
    This is where the BBC should really come into its own, but sadly they’re going down the same route as the rest of the media and going for the lowest common denominator.

    This year in the US was the long-predicted breakthrough of new media dominance in an election campaign, it’s very likely that by the next UK election no-one under 50 is going to be watching anything on TV at all. Kemi could do a lot worse than going around the top 20 podcasts in the next couple of years, talking for an hour or two on whatever subject comes up. She’d be a lot better at that format than Starmer.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    It might not be AI that wipes us out.

    Technical Report on Mirror Bacteria: Feasibility and Risks

    https://purl.stanford.edu/cv716pj4036
    This report describes the technical feasibility of creating mirror bacteria and the potentially serious and wide-ranging risks that they could pose to humans, other animals, plants, and the environment. It accompanies the Science Policy Forum article titled “Confronting risks of mirror life”, published in December 2024.

    In a mirror bacterium, all of the chiral molecules of existing bacteria—proteins, nucleic acids, and metabolites—are replaced by their mirror images. Mirror bacteria could not evolve from existing life, but their creation will become increasingly feasible as science advances. Interactions between organisms often depend on chirality, and so interactions between natural organisms and mirror bacteria would be profoundly different from those between natural organisms. Most importantly, immune defenses and predation typically rely on interactions between chiral molecules that could often fail to detect or kill mirror bacteria due to their reversed chirality. It therefore appears plausible, even likely, that sufficiently robust mirror bacteria could spread through the environment unchecked by natural biological controls and act as dangerous opportunistic pathogens in an unprecedentedly wide range of other multicellular organisms, including humans.

    This report draws on expertise from synthetic biology, immunology, ecology, and related fields to provide the first comprehensive assessment of the risks from mirror bacteria. It consists of eight chapters and starts with a general introduction, followed by an examination of the initial creation of mirror bacteria, their further engineering, as well as biosecurity and biosafety implications. The remaining five chapters cover risks to human health, medical countermeasures, risks to other animals, risks to plants, and the potential ecological consequences of their introduction into the environment...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,111

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Kemi should use her loaf and butter up the press, then it might panini out rather better for her.
  • On topic, the sandwich story is a silly thing that will be fairly quickly forgotten. What should worry Tories, though, is that it's indicative of Badenoch's pretty well known malfunctioning internal filter.

    She tends to let her mouth run ahead of her brain in interviews, whether that leads to a weird denunciation of sarnies or suggesting maternity pay is a good example of the appalling red tape faced by companies. This sort of thing will happen again and again... and on more serious matters than lunch.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    MattW said:

    Taz said:
    Nice reference.

    Arthur Mee (Of "The Kings England" 1930s guide books, and the Childrens Newspaper) in Monty Python. I can see that the Python Oxbridge set would know him.

    In my architectural set he's viewed as trying to do a Pevsner or Betjeman, but being hampered by a stereotypical Rudyard Kipling worldview.

    Mee had one child, but, despite his work, declared that he had no particular affinity with children. His works for them suggest[to whom?] that his interest was in trying to encourage the raising of a generation of patriotic and moral citizens. (Wiki).

    He came from Stapleford, and went from child of a railwayman to literary editor of the Daily Mail before 1900, and made good.

    I like this:
    As a boy he earned money from reading the reports of Parliament to a local blind man.
    The King's England series still, despite all the drawbacks, has merits and I keep three or so of them on the shelves for actual use. Obviously they have to be used with caution, but he is excellent at turning places, especially obscure ones, into story, and historical narrative. He also is a reminder of how much we lose when we stop being proud as wel as alertly critical of our own country and history.

    Worth noting that the historians non- academics read to this day are the great story tellers - Tom Holland, Dan Jones etc, not the post-modern critical analysts.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:
    Pain perdu...

    You're saying he's French toast ?
    Pain perdu, is that when you leave your lunch bag on the train as you get off?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:
    Pain perdu...

    You're saying he's French toast ?
    Perhaps he's going to rue the day. Or get browned off.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,953
    edited December 13
    Taz said:

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    Rachel Reeves, she's total shite
    They can't blame the Tories for this one.

    They will, but they own this. Largely down to their doom and gloom and talking down the economy,

    "KPMG's chief economist Yael Selfin said that activity was "held back by uncertainty ahead of the Budget on 30 October" as businesses and consumers held back on spending."
    As you say literally months of uncertainty, doom and gloom, all down to the government's incompetent communication. I'm not even kidding when I say they have probably already done more than £22 billion of damage to growth. I really thought they'd be better than this.

    Still at least they are fully prepared for the damaging effects of Trump returning to power, right?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,111
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    theProle said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    To be fair, it's not really Kemi's fault we're all talking about this. She made some fairly offhand remarks about what she likes for lunch in the middle of a longish interview, and the media has promptly gone nuts.
    The problem is really a media which doesn't understand or explain big issues, so instead is reduced to shouting about personalities.
    The media understands its market. This is all about clickbait and driving traffic. I agree it is not Kemi;s fault, and this is nothing really sinister about lunch or deep and meaningful, but the media presents what will interest people and keep them coming back. It is why so many local rags and the likes of the Express constantly have "updates" about WASPI payouts for example. Engagement farming based on something said that was sensational.

    I doubt the Spectator are too unhappy about it either if it is driving them traffic.
    This is where the BBC should really come into its own, but sadly they’re going down the same route as the rest of the media and going for the lowest common denominator.

    This year in the US was the long-predicted breakthrough of new media dominance in an election campaign, it’s very likely that by the next UK election no-one under 50 is going to be watching anything on TV at all. Kemi could do a lot worse than going around the top 20 podcasts in the next couple of years, talking for an hour or two on whatever subject comes up. She’d be a lot better at that format than Starmer.
    The evidence is that whenever Kemi opens her mouth she sticks her foot in it.

    I genuinely thought she would be better at communicating than she is. Maybe is because she seems impervious to advice.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Your post is part of the problem.

    She was asked about foods she liked and disliked. She said what she clearly tells her children (“sandwiches aren’t real food” - what else do you say to an 8 year old who claims a PBJ is sufficient nutrition?).

    It’s not a policy or a culture war or a tactical judgement. It’s just something she said
    A politician who can't do basic politics is not "the media's" fault.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940
    MaxPB said:

    Dire economic figures this morning. Literally can't see a single positive from the release. Everything is bad and below expectations. Rachel Reeves needs to be sacked, she's completely shit at the job and has sent the country towards a completely unnecessary and unforced recession.

    The run up to the budget was a disaster, the budget even more so and now companies all across the country are gearing up for a new round of price rises and wage/hiring freezes. 2025 is going to be a horrible year for the private sector.

    I remember when you used to complain about the ONS being too pessimistic ;)
  • Foxy said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Kemi should use her loaf and butter up the press, then it might panini out rather better for her.
    The mischievous part of me is wondering about Michael Gove's roll in making Badenoch look like a crazy lady.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,032
    How is Rachel Reeves so crap? How on earth did she obtain a 1st class degree from the LSE?

    (I still don’t understand why Labour have talked economy down for months and then slapped a huge tax on business, expecting that to have any other outcome than what we see now..)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,111
    Nigelb said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Your post is part of the problem.

    She was asked about foods she liked and disliked. She said what she clearly tells her children (“sandwiches aren’t real food” - what else do you say to an 8 year old who claims a PBJ is sufficient nutrition?).

    It’s not a policy or a culture war or a tactical judgement. It’s just something she said
    A politician who can't do basic politics is not "the media's" fault.
    Politicians complaining about media coverage are like fish complaining of being wet.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,953
    Taz said:

    It is a massive self inflicted wound. They really overdid the doom and gloom.

    I think Rachel Reeves comment is a little bit delusional too. I cannot see how her policies are going to deliver the long term growth we need and the current trend is for job openings to shrink in response to the changes to NI in the budget. The "they should just take it from their profits, my heart bleeds for the multi millionaires running these companies who can pay for it" brigade will not be so smug about it when the effects of the changes start to impact.

    "Chancellor Rachel Reeves said the figure was "disappointing", but added: "We have put in place policies to deliver long-term economic growth.""

    Fair play to Labour in at least identifying growth, and the associated productivity gap, as the underlying issue. I just wish I could grasp how they think they can make a substantial difference. I'm not seeing anything that makes me think they've sussed it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,140

    On topic, the sandwich story is a silly thing that will be fairly quickly forgotten. What should worry Tories, though, is that it's indicative of Badenoch's pretty well known malfunctioning internal filter.

    She tends to let her mouth run ahead of her brain in interviews, whether that leads to a weird denunciation of sarnies or suggesting maternity pay is a good example of the appalling red tape faced by companies. This sort of thing will happen again and again... and on more serious matters than lunch.

    If you ask people what they know about Ed Miliband, I suspect the modal answer is he failed to eat a bacon sandwich, and that is a decade later. Not sure it will be quickly forgotten.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Nigelb said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Your post is part of the problem.

    She was asked about foods she liked and disliked. She said what she clearly tells her children (“sandwiches aren’t real food” - what else do you say to an 8 year old who claims a PBJ is sufficient nutrition?).

    It’s not a policy or a culture war or a tactical judgement. It’s just something she said
    A politician who can't do basic politics is not "the media's" fault.
    The media chooses to focus on the trivial.

    They don’t have to.
  • theProle said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    To be fair, it's not really Kemi's fault we're all talking about this. She made some fairly offhand remarks about what she likes for lunch in the middle of a longish interview, and the media has promptly gone nuts.
    The problem is really a media which doesn't understand or explain big issues, so instead is reduced to shouting about personalities.
    The Spectator is edited by Michael Gove who spent years in Fleet Street and knows how to craft a press release to grab editors' attention.
  • Besides, if it hadn't been the sandwiches, it would have been something else.

    In her interview with the Spectator, Kemi Badenoch also associated herself with Daenerys Targaryen of Game of Thrones, a character who is initially lauded as a great leader, but who becomes a tyrant and is assassinated. According to Badenoch, Daenerys is “a much misunderstood character”.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ianfraser.bsky.social/post/3ld4i57oi5c2e
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,286
    Nigelb said:

    .

    maxh said:

    FPT @Casino_Royale

    Politicalbetting in 2024:

    Murder is valuable political theatre.

    I didn't say I approve of it (it is just another case of the rule of law being dismantled, and terrifies me because of the precedent it sets).

    However, the reaction to it reveals something significant about our (or rather the USA's) politics which we would do well to take notice of given that they are still such a close ally of ours.

    Whatever you or I think about people's reactions, we live in a democracy and the majority generally gets what it wants, however damaging cf Brexit. In that sense we have just witnessed a valuable piece of political theatre because it has shown us a significant political view (murder is justified as a response to the inequitable healthcare system) that we might otherwise not have been aware of.
    A couple of unwarranted assumptions there.

    The majority frequently don't get what they want. And social media reaction often isn't significant.
    Yes, fair challenge. Let me rephrase: unless the US takes note politically of the strength of feeling
    against private healthcare this risks becoming more than a social media reaction and spilling out into real politics (arguably it is already an aspect of Trump's appeal, however egregiously misplaced). The lack of public societal or political condemnation of Mangione is important to take note of because of what it could lead to. Is that better?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    theProle said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    To be fair, it's not really Kemi's fault we're all talking about this. She made some fairly offhand remarks about what she likes for lunch in the middle of a longish interview, and the media has promptly gone nuts.
    The problem is really a media which doesn't understand or explain big issues, so instead is reduced to shouting about personalities.
    The media understands its market. This is all about clickbait and driving traffic. I agree it is not Kemi;s fault, and this is nothing really sinister about lunch or deep and meaningful, but the media presents what will interest people and keep them coming back. It is why so many local rags and the likes of the Express constantly have "updates" about WASPI payouts for example. Engagement farming based on something said that was sensational.

    I doubt the Spectator are too unhappy about it either if it is driving them traffic.
    This is where the BBC should really come into its own, but sadly they’re going down the same route as the rest of the media and going for the lowest common denominator.

    This year in the US was the long-predicted breakthrough of new media dominance in an election campaign, it’s very likely that by the next UK election no-one under 50 is going to be watching anything on TV at all. Kemi could do a lot worse than going around the top 20 podcasts in the next couple of years, talking for an hour or two on whatever subject comes up. She’d be a lot better at that format than Starmer.
    Yes. Podcasts are showing up the BBC as dowdy. There are well informed podcasts that don't do 'gotcha' stuff, and are informedly opinionated, and are aware of the awful wickedness of the world without having to reiterate it endlessly. The BBC overdoes the human interest (it is of course relevant and real) reporting of Syria and especially Sudan -when it does anything - rather than deeply interpreting what is occurring.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,140

    Besides, if it hadn't been the sandwiches, it would have been something else.

    In her interview with the Spectator, Kemi Badenoch also associated herself with Daenerys Targaryen of Game of Thrones, a character who is initially lauded as a great leader, but who becomes a tyrant and is assassinated. According to Badenoch, Daenerys is “a much misunderstood character”.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ianfraser.bsky.social/post/3ld4i57oi5c2e

    House of the Dragon, should we expect an uptick for the Conservatives in Wales?
  • NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166

    Foxy said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Kemi should use her loaf and butter up the press, then it might panini out rather better for her.
    The mischievous part of me is wondering about Michael Gove's roll in making Badenoch look like a crazy lady.
    A sandwich roll ?
    Or did you mean role ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,111

    Nigelb said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Your post is part of the problem.

    She was asked about foods she liked and disliked. She said what she clearly tells her children (“sandwiches aren’t real food” - what else do you say to an 8 year old who claims a PBJ is sufficient nutrition?).

    It’s not a policy or a culture war or a tactical judgement. It’s just something she said
    A politician who can't do basic politics is not "the media's" fault.
    The media chooses to focus on the trivial.

    They don’t have to.
    They always will. It's like suitgate, currygate, partygate, even red-bindergate. Not many of the public can really understand macroeconomics, but they can understand when politicians don't follow the rules they impose on the rest of us.
  • MattW said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Serious answer. IMO it's fine, and perhaps necessary, alongside the heavier stuff - as long as the serious side is not displaced. Whether that has happened is a different debate, and imo is more about the Cons currently being a vacuum.

    Did Churchill and the MPs have a lighter side during WW2? They certainly looked beyond the immediate - they were talking about what future society would be in 1941 and 1942, eg the committee behind the The Beveridge Report was appointed one month after the London Blitz.
    That's a really odd example to give in two senses.

    Firstly, whilst establishing the modern NHS and welfare state and defeating Nazism are both very different challenges, neither was ever frivilous. Talking about pensions wasn't in any meaningful sense the 1940s equivalent of BLT chat.

    Secondly, whilst this may have been unfair to a degree, Churchill famously failed to convince the public he'd looked enough at how to win the peace. He lost the General Election in a landslide less than two months after the triumph of VE Day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166

    Nigelb said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Your post is part of the problem.

    She was asked about foods she liked and disliked. She said what she clearly tells her children (“sandwiches aren’t real food” - what else do you say to an 8 year old who claims a PBJ is sufficient nutrition?).

    It’s not a policy or a culture war or a tactical judgement. It’s just something she said
    A politician who can't do basic politics is not "the media's" fault.
    The media chooses to focus on the trivial.

    They don’t have to.
    Maybe Kemi should suggest regulating it then ... ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,516
    algarkirk said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:
    Nice reference.

    Arthur Mee (Of "The Kings England" 1930s guide books, and the Childrens Newspaper) in Monty Python. I can see that the Python Oxbridge set would know him.

    In my architectural set he's viewed as trying to do a Pevsner or Betjeman, but being hampered by a stereotypical Rudyard Kipling worldview.

    Mee had one child, but, despite his work, declared that he had no particular affinity with children. His works for them suggest[to whom?] that his interest was in trying to encourage the raising of a generation of patriotic and moral citizens. (Wiki).

    He came from Stapleford, and went from child of a railwayman to literary editor of the Daily Mail before 1900, and made good.

    I like this:
    As a boy he earned money from reading the reports of Parliament to a local blind man.
    The King's England series still, despite all the drawbacks, has merits and I keep three or so of them on the shelves for actual use. Obviously they have to be used with caution, but he is excellent at turning places, especially obscure ones, into story, and historical narrative. He also is a reminder of how much we lose when we stop being proud as wel as alertly critical of our own country and history.

    Worth noting that the historians non- academics read to this day are the great story tellers - Tom Holland, Dan Jones etc, not the post-modern critical analysts.
    Actually, as Dominic Sandbrook pointed out, for most children, the bloodier the better, as far as history is concerned. A good way to keep a classroom enthralled is to lead a discussion about medieval/early modern torture techniques.

    Just avoid discussing horrible things being
    done to animals.

    The author of Horrible Histories intended that his readers should share his loathing for past figures. Instead, children found them good fun.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,027
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dire economic figures this morning. Literally can't see a single positive from the release. Everything is bad and below expectations. Rachel Reeves needs to be sacked, she's completely shit at the job and has sent the country towards a completely unnecessary and unforced recession.

    The run up to the budget was a disaster, the budget even more so and now companies all across the country are gearing up for a new round of price rises and wage/hiring freezes. 2025 is going to be a horrible year for the private sector.

    I remember when you used to complain about the ONS being too pessimistic ;)
    My gut feeling is that these figures are optimistic. I expect the final ones to be lower.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Nigelb said:

    It might not be AI that wipes us out.

    Technical Report on Mirror Bacteria: Feasibility and Risks

    https://purl.stanford.edu/cv716pj4036
    This report describes the technical feasibility of creating mirror bacteria and the potentially serious and wide-ranging risks that they could pose to humans, other animals, plants, and the environment. It accompanies the Science Policy Forum article titled “Confronting risks of mirror life”, published in December 2024.

    In a mirror bacterium, all of the chiral molecules of existing bacteria—proteins, nucleic acids, and metabolites—are replaced by their mirror images. Mirror bacteria could not evolve from existing life, but their creation will become increasingly feasible as science advances. Interactions between organisms often depend on chirality, and so interactions between natural organisms and mirror bacteria would be profoundly different from those between natural organisms. Most importantly, immune defenses and predation typically rely on interactions between chiral molecules that could often fail to detect or kill mirror bacteria due to their reversed chirality. It therefore appears plausible, even likely, that sufficiently robust mirror bacteria could spread through the environment unchecked by natural biological controls and act as dangerous opportunistic pathogens in an unprecedentedly wide range of other multicellular organisms, including humans.

    This report draws on expertise from synthetic biology, immunology, ecology, and related fields to provide the first comprehensive assessment of the risks from mirror bacteria. It consists of eight chapters and starts with a general introduction, followed by an examination of the initial creation of mirror bacteria, their further engineering, as well as biosecurity and biosafety implications. The remaining five chapters cover risks to human health, medical countermeasures, risks to other animals, risks to plants, and the potential ecological consequences of their introduction into the environment...

    The good news is that such an effort would be a massive undertaking. It's not something anyone is going to cook up in a small laboratory.

    It would be a Manhattan Project size problem to create such organisms, but it's almost certainly possible. Not doing it would be a very good idea.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,403
    edited December 13
    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,111

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    I think it fairly easy to make the case that the NHS doesn't spend enough on administration. It's that lack that accounts for a lot of the inefficiencies that the public experience.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,767
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:
    Nice reference.

    Arthur Mee (Of "The Kings England" 1930s guide books, and the Childrens Newspaper) in Monty Python. I can see that the Python Oxbridge e set would know him.

    In my architectural set he's viewed as trying to do a Pevsner or Betjeman, but being hampered by a stereotypical Rudyard Kipling worldview.

    Mee had one child, but, despite his work, declared that he had no particular affinity with children. His works for them suggest[to whom?] that his interest was in trying to encourage the raising of a generation of patriotic and moral citizens. (Wiki).

    He came from Stapleford, and went from child of a railwayman to literary editor of the Daily Mail before 1900, and made good.

    I like this:
    As a boy he earned money from reading the reports of Parliament to a local blind man.
    Also the Children's Encyclopaedia.

    I had my father's one as a child - loved it, especially the bits on prehistoric animals and steam locos. Aeroplanes a bit out of date by then though.
    ditto

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    Tweet of the day contender:

    https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1867215329224507670

    “So proud of our 6yo son for coming out as a pirate…”

    An example of just how bonkers the gender stuff has got in the past few years.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 270

    How is Rachel Reeves so crap? How on earth did she obtain a 1st class degree from the LSE?

    (I still don’t understand why Labour have talked economy down for months and then slapped a huge tax on business, expecting that to have any other outcome than what we see now..)

    How so many have forgotten the Q3 / Q4 recession of 2023.

    The frigged and clearly unsustainable "gangbusters" of Q1 2024 when Sunak conned himself and the tory Party that it was anything but a blip.

    Q3 figures almost entirely as a result of the Farage supported and encouraged riots and some adverse early Autumn weather.

    November won't look great either given various named storms delaying Construction and delaying early Christmas foot fall...

    Judge Labour in 2025 as the green shoots of their work in Q3 and Q4 this year starts to deliver tangible benefits.

    You don't refloat a sunken and stripped out tanker in 5 minutes....you have to get it back to the surface, invest in refitting and only then can you sail the seven seas into an increasing bright future...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 13

    MattW said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Serious answer. IMO it's fine, and perhaps necessary, alongside the heavier stuff - as long as the serious side is not displaced. Whether that has happened is a different debate, and imo is more about the Cons currently being a vacuum.

    Did Churchill and the MPs have a lighter side during WW2? They certainly looked beyond the immediate - they were talking about what future society would be in 1941 and 1942, eg the committee behind the The Beveridge Report was appointed one month after the London Blitz.
    That's a really odd example to give in two senses.

    Firstly, whilst establishing the modern NHS and welfare state and defeating Nazism are both very different challenges, neither was ever frivilous. Talking about pensions wasn't in any meaningful sense the 1940s equivalent of BLT chat.

    Secondly, whilst this may have been unfair to a degree, Churchill famously failed to convince the public he'd looked enough at how to win the peace. He lost the General Election in a landslide less than two months after the triumph of VE Day.
    That's not quite how I intended it - my example was a focus on things other than the immediate and short-term, and I'm wondering about there being other off-topic (as we would call it) foci around humour.

    I'm not familiar enough with the ins and outs of politics and media in 1939-45 to know how humour and levity around politicians functioned alongside the war effort.

    I have about 20 years of inherited Giles Annuals from that mid-century period (the murderous grandma with her umbrella), but I think they only go back to the late 1940s.

    Perhaps I need to go and listen to some ITMA (1939-48) for Churchill references.
  • Nigelb said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Your post is part of the problem.

    She was asked about foods she liked and disliked. She said what she clearly tells her children (“sandwiches aren’t real food” - what else do you say to an 8 year old who claims a PBJ is sufficient nutrition?).

    It’s not a policy or a culture war or a tactical judgement. It’s just something she said
    A politician who can't do basic politics is not "the media's" fault.
    The media chooses to focus on the trivial.

    They don’t have to.
    Except in the current climate, they probably do if they want to still be around in ten years time.

    I'm all for Huw Wheldon's "make the good popular and the popular good". But in a competitive market, that mostly gets squeezed out by making the popular even more popular because that's where the profits are.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,111
    edited December 13
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    It might not be AI that wipes us out.

    Technical Report on Mirror Bacteria: Feasibility and Risks

    https://purl.stanford.edu/cv716pj4036
    This report describes the technical feasibility of creating mirror bacteria and the potentially serious and wide-ranging risks that they could pose to humans, other animals, plants, and the environment. It accompanies the Science Policy Forum article titled “Confronting risks of mirror life”, published in December 2024.

    In a mirror bacterium, all of the chiral molecules of existing bacteria—proteins, nucleic acids, and metabolites—are replaced by their mirror images. Mirror bacteria could not evolve from existing life, but their creation will become increasingly feasible as science advances. Interactions between organisms often depend on chirality, and so interactions between natural organisms and mirror bacteria would be profoundly different from those between natural organisms. Most importantly, immune defenses and predation typically rely on interactions between chiral molecules that could often fail to detect or kill mirror bacteria due to their reversed chirality. It therefore appears plausible, even likely, that sufficiently robust mirror bacteria could spread through the environment unchecked by natural biological controls and act as dangerous opportunistic pathogens in an unprecedentedly wide range of other multicellular organisms, including humans.

    This report draws on expertise from synthetic biology, immunology, ecology, and related fields to provide the first comprehensive assessment of the risks from mirror bacteria. It consists of eight chapters and starts with a general introduction, followed by an examination of the initial creation of mirror bacteria, their further engineering, as well as biosecurity and biosafety implications. The remaining five chapters cover risks to human health, medical countermeasures, risks to other animals, risks to plants, and the potential ecological consequences of their introduction into the environment...

    The good news is that such an effort would be a massive undertaking. It's not something anyone is going to cook up in a small laboratory.

    It would be a Manhattan Project size problem to create such organisms, but it's almost certainly possible. Not doing it would be a very good idea.
    I haven't read the article (!)

    But surely the problem goes both ways. Yes it is possible to have organisms based on reverse geometry, but surely they would struggle to live in an orthodox world as their own enzymes and binding sites wouldn't work on us either.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    The UK economy shrunk for the second month in a row in October after official figures showed a 0.1% drop.

    The economy had been expected to return to growth following a fall during September.

    However, the Office for National Statistics said that activity had stalled or declined, with pubs, restaurants and retail among sectors reporting "weak months".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5lw84w1yeo

    It's all so pointless. A manufactured recession for £22bn extra for the NHS that will simply be soaked up by higher prices and wages internally with absolutely no commensurate increase in output.

    Diabolical.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    NHS news. Well, not news. Elon Musk tweeted (or retweeted with comment) this handy table showing American healthcare admin costs are out of this world.

    But look where ours are.


    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864683112057213028

    Noted that these are from 2020 but a good riposte to the young adult on QT yesterday who was championing the French health payment system over the UK.
    Not only "in the French system the poor don't pay anything and the well-off pay more" facepalm "how do you think a system paid for out of taxation compares to that?"
    But introducing payment at delivery increases admin costs.
    Interestingly friends in France report that as the refund system speeds up it is becoming closer and closer to the UK system.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Foxy said:

    I think that Sandwichgate shows everything thats wrong with todays politics. We have serious systemic structural issues which the big parties are shying away from, with the LOTO thinking a culture war against lunch is the right issue to tackle.

    Kemi should use her loaf and butter up the press, then it might panini out rather better for her.
    The mischievous part of me is wondering about Michael Gove's roll in making Badenoch look like a crazy lady.
    Isn’t he supposed to be her Champion and mentor?

    Maybe it’s all good publicity for a LOTO when 1 in 1.5M could name the leader of his maj opposition, in 24hrs Gove has it down to only 1 in 750K.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be the next inflation news that's key. If that's benign then the BoE might lower interest rates quicker than they previously would. Happy days (Well sort of)

    If the inflation figures are poor then we're in a real gordion knot.

    Also don't forget Labour's jobs tax hasn't come in yet.

    I don't think they'll come down much and it will take a while to feed back into household income as well.

    Right now we have a confidence problem, and I'm not sure many companies or people want to invest when they're being squeezed heavily by tax in a stagnant economy, with very likely more to come.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:
    Nice reference.

    Arthur Mee (Of "The Kings England" 1930s guide books, and the Childrens Newspaper) in Monty Python. I can see that the Python Oxbridge e set would know him.

    In my architectural set he's viewed as trying to do a Pevsner or Betjeman, but being hampered by a stereotypical Rudyard Kipling worldview.

    Mee had one child, but, despite his work, declared that he had no particular affinity with children. His works for them suggest[to whom?] that his interest was in trying to encourage the raising of a generation of patriotic and moral citizens. (Wiki).

    He came from Stapleford, and went from child of a railwayman to literary editor of the Daily Mail before 1900, and made good.

    I like this:
    As a boy he earned money from reading the reports of Parliament to a local blind man.
    Also the Children's Encyclopaedia.

    I had my father's one as a child - loved it, especially the bits on prehistoric animals and steam locos. Aeroplanes a bit out of date by then though.
    ditto

    The Childrens Encyclopaedia stopped in 1964.

    I feel young again !
This discussion has been closed.