Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Eclipsing Badenoch. Soon Farage could be the favourite to be the next PM – politicalbetting.com

1246

Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    edited December 6
    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.

    Aesthetically, I like the bigger Kia EV6 far better than its Hyundai platform share, which looks to me like as if it is the first car in decades to be hand aligned by 1970s panel beaters.

    I think they have a decent reputation now, but that's as far as my insight goes.
    Thanks, yes, it was the EV6, that caught my eye, aesthetically, as well.

    If their reputation for reliability is established now, too, even better, although it does look a bit too pricey to buy new, rather than second-hand.
    Used EV6 is a good buy, still well under warranty and with significant depreciation over a new one.
    A 3 year old Kia or Hyundai EV is a safe second hand purchase - I wouldn’t touch a 3 year old VW or Mercedes one

    MG don’t seem to have fixed problems on some year old ones so definitely don’t buy a second hand one of them
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.

    Aesthetically, I like the bigger Kia EV6 far better than its Hyundai platform share, which looks to me like as if it is the first car in decades to be hand aligned by 1970s panel beaters.

    I think they have a decent reputation now, but that's as far as my insight goes.
    Thanks, yes, it was the EV6, that caught my eye, aesthetically, as well.

    If their reputation for reliability is established now, too, even better, although it does look a bit too pricey to buy new, rather than second-hand.
    Used EV6 is a good buy, still well under warranty and with significant depreciation over a new one.
    A 3 year old Kia or Hyundai EV is a safe second hand purchase - I wouldn’t touch a 3 year old VW or Mercedes one

    MG don’t seem to have fixed problems on some year old ones so definitely don’t buy a second hand one of them
    Avoid diesels that need ad-blu too lol.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.

    Aesthetically, I like the bigger Kia EV6 far better than its Hyundai platform share, which looks to me like as if it is the first car in decades to be hand aligned by 1970s panel beaters.

    I think they have a decent reputation now, but that's as far as my insight goes.
    Thanks, yes, it was the EV6, that caught my eye, aesthetically, as well.

    If their reputation for reliability is established now, too, even better, although it does look a bit too pricey to buy new, rather than second-hand.
    Used EV6 is a good buy, still well under warranty and with significant depreciation over a new one.
    A 3 year old Kia or Hyundai EV is a safe second hand purchase - I wouldn’t touch a 3 year old VW or Mercedes one

    MG don’t seem to have fixed problems on some year old ones so definitely don’t buy a second hand one of them
    Avoid diesels that need ad-blu too lol.
    Already discovered that problem with the car we have twin b - hopefully the new adblue heater will work for the next x years
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    Meanwhile a record number of driving tests are now done in automatic cars.
    Although I have a manual licence, I haven't driven a manual in over fifteen years. Automatics work well enough for me (and allow me still to drive if my ankle ever goes again...)

    Even my dad now says buying a manual is pointless for most drivers. And he was *very* automatic-sceptical for anything that weighed less then five tons...
    I’ve not owned a manual for more than a decade - but the occasional opportunity to test drive something fun, or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk, is still worth it.
    or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk

    Lol can anyone else in your part of the world drive a manual ?
    Isn't an automatic something Americans drive, on the wrong side of the road. Could an expert tell me what they are?
    Things have moved on a little since yesterday and it looks as though I might have a licence again soon. However it will ONLY be for an automatic car.
    Or, perchance, an EV.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 6

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    Schools are slowly turning into the National Babysitting Service so mum can get back to work, with breakfast clubs and after-school clubs tacked onto each end of the day. Babysitting and too often nappy-changing!

    The babysitting service means there is no chance of following our Scandinavian friends and starting school at 6 or 7 years old. (6 or 7 o'clock maybe!)
    Oh, and we’re back to the Housing Theory of Everything.

    The UK needs about 5m more houses.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Pro_Rata said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    Starmer has performed pretty much to my low expectations. There is not a fantastic amount of policy difference between his administration and the tories that preceded it. A WFA there, an IHT here. Who gives a fuck? It's not exactly Father Lenin's "State and Revolution".

    However, one thing he undeniably is, is a grinder. Since the "Peak Boris" of the Hartlepool by-election (I can't remember who called it as Peak Boris on here, but chapeau) he relentlessly dragged the Labour, who are not always the most biddable congregation, into power with a handsome majority. Maybe he'll apply the same industrious obduracy to the business of government.
    I can see that, but I can also see a counter argument: he did not relentlessly drag Labour into power. Instead, he just sat around whilst the Conservatives imploded.

    A question is how much the remarkably low Labour share got at the GE could have been increased. What should worry Labour is the idea that Starmer and his team did work relentlessly, and that 34% is pretty much their max potential vote.
    The counter counter argument is that 34% is not that bad in modern European legislative elections, exceeding the vote share any other party in Western Europe apart from the stubbornly duopolistic Maltese government and opposition.

    (As you go east, there are sloghtly more examples, for example in Poland and Greece).

    But, by that score, I'd note 24% is not as apocalyptic for the Tories as it would have been 25 years ago.
    It's not just a quarter of a century ago though. In the week before the 2024 election was called, Labour polled 43-48% (and the Tories 20-27%). Pre-partygate, both main parties were trading in the high-thirties. A year earlier, they were tied at around 40.

    Now, we can say that some of that was an unusually large two-party share (as was the 2019 election), and that ever since 2012 the old three-party (plus nationalists in Wales / Scotland) had broken down and vote share become more dispersed, and that's true. 2019, despite the very concentrated results, saw volatility across the year as a whole that was unprecedented since at least 1981/2 and probably since 1931 or even 1918-24.

    Anyway, 24% is borderline apocalyptic for both main parties. The Tories ending on their lowest ever number of MPs, in more than 200 years as a party, tells its own story - but it was perilously close to being an awful lot worse still.
  • eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.

    Aesthetically, I like the bigger Kia EV6 far better than its Hyundai platform share, which looks to me like as if it is the first car in decades to be hand aligned by 1970s panel beaters.

    I think they have a decent reputation now, but that's as far as my insight goes.
    Thanks, yes, it was the EV6, that caught my eye, aesthetically, as well.

    If their reputation for reliability is established now, too, even better, although it does look a bit too pricey to buy new, rather than second-hand.
    Used EV6 is a good buy, still well under warranty and with significant depreciation over a new one.
    A 3 year old Kia or Hyundai EV is a safe second hand purchase - I wouldn’t touch a 3 year old VW or Mercedes one

    MG don’t seem to have fixed problems on some year old ones so definitely don’t buy a second hand one of them
    How the mighty have fallen.

    No wonder that the German public can't get over it, and I still can't quite believe how those firms allowed this situation to arise. Germany is always brilliant at long-term planning.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,980
    edited December 6
    I saw TSE's post at the start of the thread about his inauspicious start to the weekend

    I realised I didn't know the etymology of 'auspicious', so decided to look it up. I've got the day off today, and I know how to have fun

    It's from the Latin 'auspicium' (augury), itself derived from 'auspex' (augur)

    An augur was a diviner who foretold events by the behaviour of birds

    Then everyone starts talking about birds: crows, ravens, rooks and even a black swan

    And the thread's about Kemi, who would have been called a black bird in the nineties
  • Pro_Rata said:

    I see the red alert doesn't quite get to Big_G beyond the Menai, but the inclusion of Somerset Levels in the red area and specific commentary on 'funneling through the Bristol Channel' looks to be a concern. High tide tomorrow (at Weston-SM) is around 10.30am, towards the end of the warning window.

    We have received the red warning and Llandudno have cancelled the Christmas parade tomorrow
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    Its on the parents. Our son has three days of nursery a week which is brilliant for him, plus two days with mum, and then both of us at the weekend. Nursery has helped for socialisation, but he also has always gone to mum and baby groups (sign language is a favourite) which helps mum and baby at the same time. Now we can afford this, and not everyone can, so things like surestart ought to be encouraged, but at heart if your kid never sees books, isn't toilet trained etc by the time they head to school, the parents have failed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    I don't know a lot about cars, but I know a fair bit about advertising, and 'haute couture' that was not. It was a gammon's idea of cutting edge haute couture, hence several of the breed expressing a favourable opinion of the advertisement and the concept.
    "Several of the breed" may have expressed a favourable opinion because they were looking at it sensibly, rather than just pathetically over-reacting. ;)
    Perhaps.

    Was it you who some time ago was expressing support for an infrastructure scheme based on some sort of channel/ditch thing in (maybe) Norfolk, for flood protection?? I am sorry that's all I can remember about the conversation, but I want to remember what was said and that is very little to go on for a search.
    Urrm, I can't remember that. I have mentioned the trial banks (1) in the Wash (and I've walked to one...), and there are 'recent' drainage rivers in the area (2). But I can't think of any significant proposed ones.

    (1): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Trial_Bank
    (2): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-off_Channel
    Thanks! Yes it was definitely something to do with the cut off channel I think. Must have been someone else enthusing about it.
  • Sky weather predicting 90 mph winds in red warning areas for tomorrow
  • Sky weather predicting 90 mph winds in red warning areas for tomorrow

    Northerners, you’ll need your big coat, everyone else, shelter in place.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 6
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    He seems to have had a long-standing commitment to assisted dying and it looks like he'll get that done. I suspect he knows what he wants to do in lots of little ways, but what he lacks is a coherent big vision.
    “Assisted Dying”, the single issue pressed by Lord Alli of buying clothes for half the Cabinet fame.
    Do we think that'll pass 3rd reading ?

    I can see Farage switching his vote, but I assume enough others will stick with it for it to pass.
    I suspect that the committee stage will be very contentious, to the point that the Bill could be dropped, as is often the case with Private Members’ Bills.

    There are three other options:

    1. Lord Alli’s friends in Parliament make themselves known and pressgang others into supporting the Bill

    2. The opponents of the Bill manage to talk it out, relying on the supporters being unwilling to actually debate the morally sensitive issues at stake.

    3. This is the start of a massive and very slippery slope.

    Personally I’d be in Group 3 with most of the rest of the Christians, noting that the proponents of the Abortion Act 1967 would be appalled at the suggestion that there would now be a quarter of a million abortions every year in the UK.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Father Lenin's "State and Revolution"...

    I have tried to read it (it's on the tablet) but it's a very hard read. Conversely, Kaczynski's "Industrial Society and its Future" is an utter banger: very readable.
    "Fathers" don't usually kill a significant proportion of their children.

    Though there have been some autocrats who were also dads.
    Oh I didn't say it was good, just that it was difficult to read. I was trying to work out how early communism evolved, and how it "worked". Societies organise themselves in different ways and the attempt of the Soviets to abolish the large state and replace it with groups of smaller soviets...just didn't work, and the only time it was tolerable was when it was abandoned (eg Lenin's NEPmen). As we are now moving from a society based on the nation-state and rule-of-law to one based on mob rule allied to various billionaires, I thought it was worth looking into. All it did was scare me more. :(
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 717
    edited December 6
    Oops - typo
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sky weather predicting 90 mph winds in red warning areas for tomorrow

    Northerners, you’ll need your big coat, everyone else, shelter in place.
    Perhaps I’ll shelter under the grandstand at the Grand Prix…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    .
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Father Lenin's "State and Revolution"...

    I have tried to read it (it's on the tablet) but it's a very hard read. Conversely, Kaczynski's "Industrial Society and its Future" is an utter banger: very readable.
    "Fathers" don't usually kill a significant proportion of their children.

    Though there have been some autocrats who were also dads.
    Oh I didn't say it was good, just that it was difficult to read. I was trying to work out how early communism evolved, and how it "worked". Societies organise themselves in different ways and the attempt of the Soviets to abolish the large state and replace it with groups of smaller soviets...just didn't work, and the only time it was tolerable was when it was abandoned (eg Lenin's NEPmen). As we are now moving from a society based on the nation-state and rule-of-law to one based on mob rule allied to various billionaires, I thought it was worth looking into. All it did was scare me more. :(
    I was just having a small dig at Dura's affectation.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Nigelb said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Father Lenin's "State and Revolution"...

    I have tried to read it (it's on the tablet) but it's a very hard read. Conversely, Kaczynski's "Industrial Society and its Future" is an utter banger: very readable.
    "Fathers" don't usually kill a significant proportion of their children.

    Though there have been some autocrats who were also dads.
    Oh I didn't say it was good, just that it was difficult to read. I was trying to work out how early communism evolved, and how it "worked". Societies organise themselves in different ways and the attempt of the Soviets to abolish the large state and replace it with groups of smaller soviets...just didn't work, and the only time it was tolerable was when it was abandoned (eg Lenin's NEPmen). As we are now moving from a society based on the nation-state and rule-of-law to one based on mob rule allied to various billionaires, I thought it was worth looking into. All it did was scare me more. :(
    I was just having a small dig at Dura's affectation.
    Dura's affectation is a rich and deep source. A small dig would not be sufficient, you'd need one of those opencast Australian diggers that are bigger than supertankers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    From a good thread on historical pet ownership.
    With an implicit rebuke to Leon.

    In the early modern period, the upper classes began to describe dogs in affectionate terms. Prussian King Frederick the Great was a proponent of dogs, and wrote on the death of his favorite dog:

    “I have had a domestic loss which has completely upset my philosophy. I confide all my frailties in you: I have lost Biche, and her death has reawoken in me the loss of all my friends, particularly of him who gave her to me. I was ashamed that a dog could so deeply affect my soul, but the sedentary life I lead and the faithfulness of this poor creature had so strongly attached me to her, her suffering so moved me, that I confess, I am sad and afflicted. Does one have to be hard? Must one be insensitive? I believe that anyone capable of indifference towards a faithful animal is unable to be grateful towards an equal, and that, if one must choose, it is best to be too sensitive than too hard.” 10/25

    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1864782891546480651
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    Sky weather predicting 90 mph winds in red warning areas for tomorrow

    Northerners, you’ll need your big coat, everyone else, shelter in place.
    Eee, San, it's going to be well blowy up my wedge on the toon tonight.
  • viewcode said:

    @Cookie, @DecrepiterJohnL

    I note your remarks about child rearing. thE UK has developed a society which is dependent on communal child rearing, both parents working, and governments becoming ever larger and dependent on fictional production and fictional targets, with national statistics increasingly unreliable, everything either compulsory or forbidden...

    ...you do know this is a Soviet structure, yes?

    Communal child rearing with both parents working has, I think, been the norm thoughout most of human history. On the whole I feel it does a better job of socialising kids as well as being fairer on (usually) mum.
  • algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    Here's the problem though.

    Even if parents ought to be capable of getting 4 year olds school-ready, it's pretty clear that plenty aren't. Doesn't matter what the reason is, though it's noteworthy that there are many more problems in left-behindland.

    That leaves the nation with an unpleasant choice. Step in while children are young, or step in when they are older, when the problems are going to be harder and more expensive to fix. Maybe that shouldn't be the choice, but it probably is.
    This issue is simple - spend money now, or spend more money later. In the age of austerity and "who will pay for this" we act as if cutting the service cuts the need. That the choice is spend £££ vs spend nothing.

    This isn't just crap economics, its crap basic knowledge of how society works.

    What Labour should do is bring back Sure Start. Spend money now to save more money later. Reactionary Tory types whine on about how that is an increase in spending. When its a reduction in spending.

    We need to change how we spend money. Planned spending is less than emergency spending.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 6
    Nigelb said:

    From a good thread on historical pet ownership.
    With an implicit rebuke to Leon.

    In the early modern period, the upper classes began to describe dogs in affectionate terms. Prussian King Frederick the Great was a proponent of dogs, and wrote on the death of his favorite dog:

    “I have had a domestic loss which has completely upset my philosophy. I confide all my frailties in you: I have lost Biche, and her death has reawoken in me the loss of all my friends, particularly of him who gave her to me. I was ashamed that a dog could so deeply affect my soul, but the sedentary life I lead and the faithfulness of this poor creature had so strongly attached me to her, her suffering so moved me, that I confess, I am sad and afflicted. Does one have to be hard? Must one be insensitive? I believe that anyone capable of indifference towards a faithful animal is unable to be grateful towards an equal, and that, if one must choose, it is best to be too sensitive than too hard.” 10/25

    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1864782891546480651

    He was right to be ashamed of his absurd sentimentality. It’s a fucking DOG - GET OVER IT
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Syrian rebels now said to be be 10km from Homs.

    https://x.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1864973903917126114

    Russian-backed troops fleeing and leaving a lot of equipment behind.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    From a good thread on historical pet ownership.
    With an implicit rebuke to Leon.

    In the early modern period, the upper classes began to describe dogs in affectionate terms. Prussian King Frederick the Great was a proponent of dogs, and wrote on the death of his favorite dog:

    “I have had a domestic loss which has completely upset my philosophy. I confide all my frailties in you: I have lost Biche, and her death has reawoken in me the loss of all my friends, particularly of him who gave her to me. I was ashamed that a dog could so deeply affect my soul, but the sedentary life I lead and the faithfulness of this poor creature had so strongly attached me to her, her suffering so moved me, that I confess, I am sad and afflicted. Does one have to be hard? Must one be insensitive? I believe that anyone capable of indifference towards a faithful animal is unable to be grateful towards an equal, and that, if one must choose, it is best to be too sensitive than too hard.” 10/25

    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1864782891546480651

    He was right to be ashamed of his absurd sentimentality. It’s a fucking DOG - GET OVER IT
    One could say the same about a child - better not to coddle them, call your father Sir etc. But in most cases the theory does not survive reality.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Sounds like another round of leveraged debt and asset stripping is in the offing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/06/struggling-thames-water-receives-buyout-offer-from-covalis
    Embattled Thames Water has received a £5bn bid from Covalis Capital that would result in France’s Suez Group being brought in to manage a restructure of the UK’s largest water company.

    The infrastructure investor Covalis Capital has submitted a bid for Thames Water, which has been on the verge of collapse for several months as it struggles with a £19bn debt pile, according to the Financial Times.

    Covalis plans to provide about £1bn of the funds upfront and raise a further £4bn from sales of the struggling water company’s assets.

    The asset sales could reportedly include breaking up parts of the company, such as its operations in the Thames Valley, and then pursuing a stock market flotation of the restructured business.

    Under the plans, the UK government would retain a seat on the board and a “golden share”, which would give it certain rights to protect the provider of water and sewage services to 16 million customers across London and the Thames Valley...


    If they're getting in an outsider (Suez) to manage it for them, why can't the UK government just buy it and do the same ?
    I don't really see any economic advantage to this.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 6
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.

    Aesthetically, I like the bigger Kia EV6 far better than its Hyundai platform share, which looks to me like as if it is the first car in decades to be hand aligned by 1970s panel beaters.

    I think they have a decent reputation now, but that's as far as my insight goes.
    Thanks, yes, it was the EV6, that caught my eye, aesthetically, as well.

    If their reputation for reliability is established now, too, even better, although it does look a bit too pricey to buy new, rather than second-hand.
    Used EV6 is a good buy, still well under warranty and with significant depreciation over a new one.
    A 3 year old Kia or Hyundai EV is a safe second hand purchase - I wouldn’t touch a 3 year old VW or Mercedes one

    MG don’t seem to have fixed problems on some year old ones so definitely don’t buy a second hand one of them
    The, umm, product lifecycle, requirements of Chinese EVs is going to be fun to enforce in future.

    The new EV-only car manufacturers, including Tesla, don’t see themselves as bound by regulations regarding support for outdated products.

    You want to buy it second-hand, but sell it with a year of warranty left.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    From a good thread on historical pet ownership.
    With an implicit rebuke to Leon.

    In the early modern period, the upper classes began to describe dogs in affectionate terms. Prussian King Frederick the Great was a proponent of dogs, and wrote on the death of his favorite dog:

    “I have had a domestic loss which has completely upset my philosophy. I confide all my frailties in you: I have lost Biche, and her death has reawoken in me the loss of all my friends, particularly of him who gave her to me. I was ashamed that a dog could so deeply affect my soul, but the sedentary life I lead and the faithfulness of this poor creature had so strongly attached me to her, her suffering so moved me, that I confess, I am sad and afflicted. Does one have to be hard? Must one be insensitive? I believe that anyone capable of indifference towards a faithful animal is unable to be grateful towards an equal, and that, if one must choose, it is best to be too sensitive than too hard.” 10/25

    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1864782891546480651

    He was right to be ashamed of his absurd sentimentality. It’s a fucking DOG - GET OVER IT
    There are plenty of examples of cross-species friendships, and of animals being sad when other animals die. And it seems daft to admonish an animal for sentimentality. I don't think therefore we should berate Frederick the Great too hard either.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Sandpit said:

    Syrian rebels now said to be be 10km from Homs.

    https://x.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1864973903917126114

    Russian-backed troops fleeing and leaving a lot of equipment behind.

    And reports that there is rebellion in ?Daraa? in the very south, near the Jordanian border. (allegedly the rebels there previously did a deal with Assad whereby they would lay down their weapons).

    https://x.com/lummideast/status/1865001337798197549
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    From a good thread on historical pet ownership.
    With an implicit rebuke to Leon.

    In the early modern period, the upper classes began to describe dogs in affectionate terms. Prussian King Frederick the Great was a proponent of dogs, and wrote on the death of his favorite dog:

    “I have had a domestic loss which has completely upset my philosophy. I confide all my frailties in you: I have lost Biche, and her death has reawoken in me the loss of all my friends, particularly of him who gave her to me. I was ashamed that a dog could so deeply affect my soul, but the sedentary life I lead and the faithfulness of this poor creature had so strongly attached me to her, her suffering so moved me, that I confess, I am sad and afflicted. Does one have to be hard? Must one be insensitive? I believe that anyone capable of indifference towards a faithful animal is unable to be grateful towards an equal, and that, if one must choose, it is best to be too sensitive than too hard.” 10/25

    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1864782891546480651

    He was right to be ashamed of his absurd sentimentality. It’s a fucking DOG - GET OVER IT
    He had your number.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    F1: 10 place grid penalty for Leclerc.

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/breaking-leclerc-hit-with-10-place-grid-drop-for-abu-dhabi-gp-amid-tight.70UnJby2M4OTKrz3dcfZth

    Can be laid for top 3 in the race at 4.7 on Smarkets, currently.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 6
    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Meh. They had drones in the Middle Ages. They're in the Icelandic sagas.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    Here's the problem though.

    Even if parents ought to be capable of getting 4 year olds school-ready, it's pretty clear that plenty aren't. Doesn't matter what the reason is, though it's noteworthy that there are many more problems in left-behindland.

    That leaves the nation with an unpleasant choice. Step in while children are young, or step in when they are older, when the problems are going to be harder and more expensive to fix. Maybe that shouldn't be the choice, but it probably is.
    This issue is simple - spend money now, or spend more money later. In the age of austerity and "who will pay for this" we act as if cutting the service cuts the need. That the choice is spend £££ vs spend nothing.

    This isn't just crap economics, its crap basic knowledge of how society works.

    What Labour should do is bring back Sure Start. Spend money now to save more money later. Reactionary Tory types whine on about how that is an increase in spending. When its a reduction in spending.

    We need to change how we spend money. Planned spending is less than emergency spending.
    Government priorities have been, for some time now, preoccupied with the other end of the age spectrum.
    They still label it 'investment' - though the expected return is purely electoral, and the timeframe looks no further ahead than the next election.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394
    edited December 6
    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    UFOs downgraded to UAPs downgraded to drones on the weird phenomena scale. Could be espionage; could be crime; most likely kids playing silly games.

    The danger will come when the nutters realise they don't need a rifle to kill their classmates, workmates and President, and send in drones instead.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Meh. They had drones in the Middle Ages. They're in the Icelandic sagas.
    PB's leading fan of anything "exciting" points out something he hope is "exciting". PB shrugs.

    Never forget Gatwick and drones.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378

    viewcode said:

    @Cookie, @DecrepiterJohnL

    I note your remarks about child rearing. thE UK has developed a society which is dependent on communal child rearing, both parents working, and governments becoming ever larger and dependent on fictional production and fictional targets, with national statistics increasingly unreliable, everything either compulsory or forbidden...

    ...you do know this is a Soviet structure, yes?

    Communal child rearing with both parents working has, I think, been the norm thoughout most of human history. On the whole I feel it does a better job of socialising kids as well as being fairer on (usually) mum.
    I'm happy to believe you, but I'm not sure "communal child rearing" in, say, 1400 is the same as 2024. Did they have special child rooms/buildings for communal feeding and tending (wiping bottoms, telling off, etc)? I can see the mother feeding the child then telling them to go out and play, but that's not the same thing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    From a good thread on historical pet ownership.
    With an implicit rebuke to Leon.

    In the early modern period, the upper classes began to describe dogs in affectionate terms. Prussian King Frederick the Great was a proponent of dogs, and wrote on the death of his favorite dog:

    “I have had a domestic loss which has completely upset my philosophy. I confide all my frailties in you: I have lost Biche, and her death has reawoken in me the loss of all my friends, particularly of him who gave her to me. I was ashamed that a dog could so deeply affect my soul, but the sedentary life I lead and the faithfulness of this poor creature had so strongly attached me to her, her suffering so moved me, that I confess, I am sad and afflicted. Does one have to be hard? Must one be insensitive? I believe that anyone capable of indifference towards a faithful animal is unable to be grateful towards an equal, and that, if one must choose, it is best to be too sensitive than too hard.” 10/25

    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1864782891546480651

    He was right to be ashamed of his absurd sentimentality. It’s a fucking DOG - GET OVER IT
    There are plenty of examples of cross-species friendships, and of animals being sad when other animals die. And it seems daft to admonish an animal for sentimentality. I don't think therefore we should berate Frederick the Great too hard either.
    Er, old Friedrich *was* an animal ...

    As for what Leon sees as undue sentimentality, there's a lot in the thought that domesticated dogs and other pets are part of the human condition. Humans are, after all, a result of the same process of domestication that created those pets.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    There are more and more reports of locals taking over Syrian Army checkpoints and equipment in the south of Syria, while HTS advances from the north and SDF from the east. Also reports of Syrian Army units defecting.

    I think this is the end of Assad.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Our son refused to use a potty. He hated using one, would kick and scream if we even tried. We therefore had to move directly from using nappies to using the toilet. Which wasn't much of a problem with hindsight (and he was just about ready before school), but felt a problem at the time.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    Here's the problem though.

    Even if parents ought to be capable of getting 4 year olds school-ready, it's pretty clear that plenty aren't. Doesn't matter what the reason is, though it's noteworthy that there are many more problems in left-behindland.

    That leaves the nation with an unpleasant choice. Step in while children are young, or step in when they are older, when the problems are going to be harder and more expensive to fix. Maybe that shouldn't be the choice, but it probably is.
    This issue is simple - spend money now, or spend more money later. In the age of austerity and "who will pay for this" we act as if cutting the service cuts the need. That the choice is spend £££ vs spend nothing.

    This isn't just crap economics, its crap basic knowledge of how society works.

    What Labour should do is bring back Sure Start. Spend money now to save more money later. Reactionary Tory types whine on about how that is an increase in spending. When its a reduction in spending.

    We need to change how we spend money. Planned spending is less than emergency spending.
    Government priorities have been, for some time now, preoccupied with the other end of the age spectrum.
    They still label it 'investment' - though the expected return is purely electoral, and the timeframe looks no further ahead than the next election.
    Entirely rational, given the current Tory and latest Labour target clientele, who will largely be as Norwegian Blue as the market for 1960s style Jaguars by the election after that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Feck, another horribly sad story from a PBer with whom you’ve argued loads over the years.

    Best wishes to you and your family.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    There are more and more reports of locals taking over Syrian Army checkpoints and equipment in the south of Syria, while HTS advances from the north and SDF from the east. Also reports of Syrian Army units defecting.

    I think this is the end of Assad.

    Yes, it is time for the picture of a spitfire and the carriage clock. Off he goes to wherever.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Meh. They had drones in the Middle Ages. They're in the Icelandic sagas.
    PB's leading fan of anything "exciting" points out something he hope is "exciting". PB shrugs.

    Never forget Gatwick and drones.
    It seems that potty training is a far more attractive topic (and actually with some very interesting points being made).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,609
    edited December 6

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Our children did not have nappies would you believe

    Terry towelling was used with a liner and you simply threw way the liner and washed and reused the towelling

    Our daughter was born with a clickerty hip and for two years she wore double towelling and a plastic brace

    I would venture to say far better than today's nappies which arrived just about the time of our 3rd though we still used the towelling
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Our son refused to use a potty. He hated using one, would kick and scream if we even tried. We therefore had to move directly from using nappies to using the toilet. Which wasn't much of a problem with hindsight (and he was just about ready before school), but felt a problem at the time.
    Our son had a week a month or so ago of using the potty before his night-time bath. But he's stopped that now. He's not yet two, but I am hoping for a switch soon away from nappies!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 6
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Feck, another horribly sad story from a PBer with whom you’ve argued loads over the years.

    Best wishes to you and your family.
    Eh ?

    PB.com turning into Dadsnet

    Toilet training isn't a "horribly sad story" ?!
  • Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Same still going at Lakenheath, where the U.S. is about to station. Nuclear weapons for the first time in 15 years.

    According to the unconfirmed reoort above, they can still operate in high winds.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Our children do not have nappies would you believe

    Terry towelling was used with a liner and you simply threw way the liner and washed and reused the towelling

    Our daughter was born with a clickerty hip and for two years she wore double towelling and a plastic brace

    I would venture to say far better than today's nappies
    I had to reread that first sentence twice before realising it was a typo.
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Our son refused to use a potty. He hated using one, would kick and scream if we even tried. We therefore had to move directly from using nappies to using the toilet. Which wasn't much of a problem with hindsight (and he was just about ready before school), but felt a problem at the time.
    Yes, mine went straight from nappies to loo, with some help at the start. I can't say I particularly minded; a potty would have just been another thing to clean out.
  • Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Our children do not have nappies would you believe

    Terry towelling was used with a liner and you simply threw way the liner and washed and reused the towelling

    Our daughter was born with a clickerty hip and for two years she wore double towelling and a plastic brace

    I would venture to say far better than today's nappies
    I had to reread that first sentence twice before realising it was a typo.
    Corrected - my fingers become more gnarled every day !!!!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420

    There are more and more reports of locals taking over Syrian Army checkpoints and equipment in the south of Syria, while HTS advances from the north and SDF from the east. Also reports of Syrian Army units defecting.

    I think this is the end of Assad.

    Probably not what Hamas intended 14 months ago.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Same still going at Lakenheath, where the U.S. is about to station. Nuclear weapons for the first time in 15 years.

    According to the unconfirmed reoort above, they can still operate in high winds.
    Get back to us when there is one shot down, or seen in daylight and properly photographed.

    Its not aliens folks.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    Best wishes to you and your family.

    Eh ?

    PB.com turning into Dadsnet

    Toilet training isn't a "horribly sad story" ?!
    Err, read the whole post carefully.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 6
    Putin's told Russians to get out of Syria. The rebels will probably be at the gates of Damascus in a fortnight. Looking over for Assad.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    Best wishes to you and your family.

    Eh ?

    PB.com turning into Dadsnet

    Toilet training isn't a "horribly sad story" ?!
    Err, read the whole post carefully.
    Damn, yes I missed that bit. @FeersumEnjineeya so sorry for your loss.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,515

    Sandpit said:

    Syrian rebels now said to be be 10km from Homs.

    https://x.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1864973903917126114

    Russian-backed troops fleeing and leaving a lot of equipment behind.

    And reports that there is rebellion in ?Daraa? in the very south, near the Jordanian border. (allegedly the rebels there previously did a deal with Assad whereby they would lay down their weapons).

    https://x.com/lummideast/status/1865001337798197549
    I see that @HYUFD ’s usual dismissive assertions that Assad and the Russians would crush the rebels within days was utter crap
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Meh. They had drones in the Middle Ages. They're in the Icelandic sagas.
    PB's leading fan of anything "exciting" points out something he hope is "exciting". PB shrugs.

    Never forget Gatwick and drones.
    I genuinely don’t understand this moronic attitude

    The USAF/RAF/FBI and several other powerful military/security organisations seem genuinely bewildered by these now-frequent and myriad phenomena

    The most parsimonious explanation - that they are all being fooled by kids with drones - is itself extremely interesting - as aberrant human psychology - and also disturbing. They’re meant to defend our skies!

    All the other explanations - psyops, Russians, Chinese, mass hallucinations, secret US tech, yes
    even aliens - only get more interesting

    I think you are so pathetically scared of looking like a fool/discovering something scary, you dismiss it all and turn away, as that is more comfortable
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Space News

    https://spacenews.com/orbex-halts-work-on-own-spaceport-shifts-launches-to-saxavord/

    Some think this is Orbex abandoning small launch and trying to pivot to a medium class vehicle.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Our children did not have nappies would you believe

    Terry towelling was used with a liner and you simply threw way the liner and washed and reused the towelling

    Our daughter was born with a clickerty hip and for two years she wore double towelling and a plastic brace

    I would venture to say far better than today's nappies which arrived just about the time of our 3rd though we still used the towelling
    Still a thing (though probably trendy-woke coded these days). Worked fine for Thing One and Thing Two. The added benefit now is that they have worked out how to shape the towelling bit to fit nicely without unsightly bulges and use elasticated grippers to hold the whole thing in place. They were great.

    And whilst you can't ask the toddlers (they're toddlers after all), I suspect modern disposable nappy technology is a bit too effective and convenient for our collective good.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Father Lenin's "State and Revolution"...

    I have tried to read it (it's on the tablet) but it's a very hard read. Conversely, Kaczynski's "Industrial Society and its Future" is an utter banger: very readable.
    "Fathers" don't usually kill a significant proportion of their children.

    Though there have been some autocrats who were also dads.
    And it is a recurring theme in Western myth.


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    UFOs downgraded to UAPs downgraded to drones on the weird phenomena scale. Could be espionage; could be crime; most likely kids playing silly games.

    The danger will come when the nutters realise they don't need a rifle to kill their classmates, workmates and President, and send in drones instead.
    Sadly the kids in question appear to belong to the American state. I certainly don't think the Russians' tendrils reach as far as New Jersey. All this guff seems to be coming to a head before Trump gets in - a conspiracist would argue they want to precipitate some sort of national emergency to prevent his accession.

    It's clear as day they've kicked off Syria again before he gets in and questions why they're still there too. I pity the poor bastards living in that country.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144

    Pro_Rata said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    Starmer has performed pretty much to my low expectations. There is not a fantastic amount of policy difference between his administration and the tories that preceded it. A WFA there, an IHT here. Who gives a fuck? It's not exactly Father Lenin's "State and Revolution".

    However, one thing he undeniably is, is a grinder. Since the "Peak Boris" of the Hartlepool by-election (I can't remember who called it as Peak Boris on here, but chapeau) he relentlessly dragged the Labour, who are not always the most biddable congregation, into power with a handsome majority. Maybe he'll apply the same industrious obduracy to the business of government.
    I can see that, but I can also see a counter argument: he did not relentlessly drag Labour into power. Instead, he just sat around whilst the Conservatives imploded.

    A question is how much the remarkably low Labour share got at the GE could have been increased. What should worry Labour is the idea that Starmer and his team did work relentlessly, and that 34% is pretty much their max potential vote.
    The counter counter argument is that 34% is not that bad in modern European legislative elections, exceeding the vote share any other party in Western Europe apart from the stubbornly duopolistic Maltese government and opposition.

    (As you go east, there are sloghtly more examples, for example in Poland and Greece).

    But, by that score, I'd note 24% is not as apocalyptic for the Tories as it would have been 25 years ago.
    It's not just a quarter of a century ago though. In the week before the 2024 election was called, Labour polled 43-48% (and the Tories 20-27%). Pre-partygate, both main parties were trading in the high-thirties. A year earlier, they were tied at around 40.

    Now, we can say that some of that was an unusually large two-party share (as was the 2019 election), and that ever since 2012 the old three-party (plus nationalists in Wales / Scotland) had broken down and vote share become more dispersed, and that's true. 2019, despite the very concentrated results, saw volatility across the year as a whole that was unprecedented since at least 1981/2 and probably since 1931 or even 1918-24.

    Anyway, 24% is borderline apocalyptic for both main parties. The Tories ending on their lowest ever number of MPs, in more than 200 years as a party, tells its own story - but it was perilously close to being an awful lot worse still.
    It’s a shame it wasn’t, really - including for them.

    The public wanted to teach the Tories a lesson, yet they don’t seem to have learned anything.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Same still going at Lakenheath, where the U.S. is about to station. Nuclear weapons for the first time in 15 years.

    According to the unconfirmed reoort above, they can still operate in high winds.
    Get back to us when there is one shot down, or seen in daylight and properly photographed.

    Its not aliens folks.
    So give me an explanation, and then tell me why we shouldn’t be worried or interested
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    What we're seeing with four and five year olds is the after-effects of lockdown. It's been the case for two or three years. "Not ready for school" is in many cases a euphemism for not actually toilet trained/not really able to speak understandably/entirely feral. So many babies and very small children were basically parked in front of a screen while parents worked. Middle class parents like me and many other posters here had in most cases understanding and flexible employers - this wasn't true of everyone. And even middle class neighbourhoods have seen a massive increase in the number of "Not ready for school" children arriving in reception, and in the amount of SEN that need to be accommodated - in less comfortable areas it is endemic.

    The hard work - and it is hard work, and not something you can do in the background while you whf - of turning children from babies to children was, our of necessity, postponed. Obviously we're out the other side now, but there's a lot of catching up to do and a lot of rowing back to what the old normal was. Hopefully however we're past the peak of this and the next cohort will be a little more normal.

    All cohorts suffered, but the preschool cohort suffered more than most. But they don't have votes, or indeed much of a voice at all.
    It may have been made worse by lockdown, but it's been an issue for much longer;

    As an example, from 2017:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41160919
    Or 2014:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/half-of-all-five-year-olds-are-not-ready-for-school-research-shows-9749490.html
    Mm, not saying it wasn't an issue to be worried about before. But lockdown turned it from a one-in-a-class incident to a 5-to-10 -in-a-class incident. As I say, hopefully we're now getting to the other side of that.
    That link from 2014 said it was nearly half of all five year olds back then. I don't want to downplay the effect lockdown had on many kids, but it's clear the underlying issues are elsewhere.
    Nappies. Modern nappies are kinder to infants. They absorb liquids so there is no longer any feedback that would encourage early bladder control.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The thing about toilet training is that it's something that you have to actively do; it doesn't just happen by itself. I remember it well because it was one of the first jobs that I had after my wife died. Our son was 2 1/2 at the time, and I needed to make sure he was out of nappies by the time he started kindergarten (I lived in Germany at the time) on turning 3.

    It basically involves not putting a nappy on, making it clear to the child to let you know when they need to go, and being constantly on hand so you can respond quickly to get them on the loo and deal with any accidents. It doesn't take long - there was only one accident in my lad's case - but you do need to actually make the effort to do it, and it's best done in summer when there aren't so many clothes to take off.

    I guess many kids end up in nappies for a long time because their parents simply don't have or make time to get them out of them.
    Feck, another horribly sad story from a PBer with whom you’ve argued loads over the years.

    Best wishes to you and your family.
    Thanks, it was horrible, but a long time ago now. My little lad's now in his final year at uni, and I've been happily shacked up with my not-so-new partner for a fair while now. At the time I thought I could never be happy again, but time really does heal. You don't forget, but you learn to live again. And I was actully pretty chuffed about my toilet training success; it was a spark of light in the darkness at the time.
    Hey, glad to hear and best wishes for the future, even if we can sometimes disagree on today’s politics.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    There are more and more reports of locals taking over Syrian Army checkpoints and equipment in the south of Syria, while HTS advances from the north and SDF from the east. Also reports of Syrian Army units defecting.

    I think this is the end of Assad.

    Probably not what Hamas intended 14 months ago.
    Or Putin when he launched his three-day SMO...

    This is a massive prestige failure for Putin, and perhaps an even larger geopolitical problem. Syria was useful to him for a number of reasons: politically, he could say he was Assad's saviour, keeping the Muslim hordes at bay (*). Militarily, it allowed him to train troops to fight, and his air force to bomb civilians. Geographically, it acted as a stepping stone for people and supplies, especially the money his people have been taking from Africa.

    All that might now be going, and he has made many enemies in the area. And I think he is pretty powerless to stop it - it seems clear the 'bomb everything!' approach suggested on here would not work, even if he had the aircraft.

    (*) Not all Muslim hordes, obviously, as the Chechens are really, really good Muslims that he really likes. It's the other Muslims he dislikes... ;)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/

    The systematic destruction of London nightlife has been observed by many others, who aren't @SeanT

    Strangely, if you retract/refuse to give out late opening licenses, then there aren't many places open late.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    What's a "massive discount", as in "Manufacturers gave "massive" discounts worth around £4bn on electric vehicles (EVs), the SMMT said."?

    (Looking on CarWow for electrics, I'm seeing discounts from around 5% to 16-17% with a small number of more generous outliers such as MGs at 20%+.

    On the benchmark of wanting the discount to cover 12-18 months depreciation, that's sort of OK for some if there is extra range or similar, but nice second hand vehicles may be a better option).
    Almost no-one has yet realised that the market for second-hand EVs is about as big as the market for second-hand mobile phones, and this will quickly feed into the lease prices for new EVs.
    If there is a glut of cheap second-hand EV cars in ~5 years that would be perfect timing for me.
    I'd want one before then. However, the thing with EVs is that new ones are improving fast, second hand ones will probably fall faster than ICE cars where improvements year by year are minor.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Meh. They had drones in the Middle Ages. They're in the Icelandic sagas.
    PB's leading fan of anything "exciting" points out something he hope is "exciting". PB shrugs.

    Never forget Gatwick and drones.
    I genuinely don’t understand this moronic attitude

    The USAF/RAF/FBI and several other powerful military/security organisations seem genuinely bewildered by these now-frequent and myriad phenomena

    The most parsimonious explanation - that they are all being fooled by kids with drones - is itself extremely interesting - as aberrant human psychology - and also disturbing. They’re meant to defend our skies!

    All the other explanations - psyops, Russians, Chinese, mass hallucinations, secret US tech, yes
    even aliens - only get more interesting

    I think you are so pathetically scared of looking like a fool/discovering something scary, you dismiss it all and turn away, as that is more comfortable
    Nope - the USAF/RAF/FBI etc put out media handling answers about shit.

    I've followed Fortean events for too long and I am far to cynical to believe the hype from grifters. The whole thing in the US around UAP's is just the latest in a long line of grift. Where are these so called incredible videos that were promised? Turns out all were explainable. Why don't the Elizondo's of this world just shove the evidence that they claim to have out there? Oh - because they are earning a good living by teasing about stuff and not actually releasing evidence (which almost certainly doesn't exist).

    I get that people want to believe. There is no-one who would be more delighted and astonished if aliens made contact or landed or whatever than me. Trust me on this. Its just that nothing we have even had presented as evidence amounts to anything.

    Have you considered the classic flap? Someone somewhere thinks they see something, a story starts and then others pick up the ball and run?

    Seriously, if you have never read "In Alien Heat" about the Warminster UFO flap in the 60s and 70s you should. From a social history of how these things start, grow and then ultimately die down it is superb.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/

    Probably because that excellent and eloquent article has been the most-read on the Spectator site, all day
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/

    The systematic destruction of London nightlife has been observed by many others, who aren't @SeanT

    Strangely, if you retract/refuse to give out late opening licenses, then there aren't many places open late.
    Licences.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    Space News

    https://spacenews.com/orbex-halts-work-on-own-spaceport-shifts-launches-to-saxavord/

    Some think this is Orbex abandoning small launch and trying to pivot to a medium class vehicle.

    A shame; I quite like that area of Sutherland (*), and even though hellishly remote, still much more accessible than the northernmost of the Shetland Islands if we ever wanted to see a launch.

    (*) I'm always amused by the fact Sutherland means 'Southern land' despite being in the very north of the mainland. Because from the perspective of Orkney, it is south.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 6

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Meh. They had drones in the Middle Ages. They're in the Icelandic sagas.
    PB's leading fan of anything "exciting" points out something he hope is "exciting". PB shrugs.

    Never forget Gatwick and drones.
    I genuinely don’t understand this moronic attitude

    The USAF/RAF/FBI and several other powerful military/security organisations seem genuinely bewildered by these now-frequent and myriad phenomena

    The most parsimonious explanation - that they are all being fooled by kids with drones - is itself extremely interesting - as aberrant human psychology - and also disturbing. They’re meant to defend our skies!

    All the other explanations - psyops, Russians, Chinese, mass hallucinations, secret US tech, yes
    even aliens - only get more interesting

    I think you are so pathetically scared of looking like a fool/discovering something scary, you dismiss it all and turn away, as that is more comfortable
    Nope - the USAF/RAF/FBI etc put out media handling answers about shit.

    I've followed Fortean events for too long and I am far to cynical to believe the hype from grifters. The whole thing in the US around UAP's is just the latest in a long line of grift. Where are these so called incredible videos that were promised? Turns out all were explainable. Why don't the Elizondo's of this world just shove the evidence that they claim to have out there? Oh - because they are earning a good living by teasing about stuff and not actually releasing evidence (which almost certainly doesn't exist).

    I get that people want to believe. There is no-one who would be more delighted and astonished if aliens made contact or landed or whatever than me. Trust me on this. Its just that nothing we have even had presented as evidence amounts to anything.

    Have you considered the classic flap? Someone somewhere thinks they see something, a story starts and then others pick up the ball and run?

    Seriously, if you have never read "In Alien Heat" about the Warminster UFO flap in the 60s and 70s you should. From a social history of how these things start, grow and then ultimately die down it is superb.
    So give me your explanation and tell me why we shouldn’t be worried or interested
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Leon said:

    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/

    Probably because that excellent and eloquent article has been the most-read on the Spectator site, all day
    I'm surprised the author knows what London is like, as he is always abroad... ;)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Leon said:

    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/

    Probably because that excellent and eloquent article has been the most-read on the Spectator site, all day
    Do multiple visits from Columbia count individually?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Same still going at Lakenheath, where the U.S. is about to station. Nuclear weapons for the first time in 15 years.

    According to the unconfirmed reoort above, they can still operate in high winds.
    Get back to us when there is one shot down, or seen in daylight and properly photographed.

    Its not aliens folks.
    So give me an explanation, and then tell me why we shouldn’t be worried or interested
    You can be interested if you want. I sense that you live for the dramatic and thus are WANTING a dramatic resolution. How about someone thought they saw something and now others are thinking they are seeing things (contagion). Or that after someone thought they saw something, some local idiots then started using drones for fun.

    I doubt very much its the Chinese or the Russians.

    I'd rule out aliens.

    People are, on the whole, terrible witnesses.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/

    The systematic destruction of London nightlife has been observed by many others, who aren't @SeanT

    Strangely, if you retract/refuse to give out late opening licenses, then there aren't many places open late.
    Does it matter in the long run, if people are finding other ways to entertain themselves?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Space News

    https://spacenews.com/orbex-halts-work-on-own-spaceport-shifts-launches-to-saxavord/

    Some think this is Orbex abandoning small launch and trying to pivot to a medium class vehicle.

    A shame; I quite like that area of Sutherland (*), and even though hellishly remote, still much more accessible than the northernmost of the Shetland Islands if we ever wanted to see a launch.

    (*) I'm always amused by the fact Sutherland means 'Southern land' despite being in the very north of the mainland. Because from the perspective of Orkney, it is south.
    More to the point - Orbex might well fold. The shakeout of the micro launcher market continues.
  • Romanian court annuls first round of election results
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/

    The systematic destruction of London nightlife has been observed by many others, who aren't @SeanT

    Strangely, if you retract/refuse to give out late opening licenses, then there aren't many places open late.
    Does it matter in the long run, if people are finding other ways to entertain themselves?
    Well, we went from the old system - pubs and few clubs, plus some bizarre illegal bars. To legalisation of late night venues.

    And now back to "Close at 11". The drivers for this are interesting - quite a bit is council tenants in Westminster (and other councils) social housing demanding no noise.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Leon said:

    This old bollocks came through on my Google feed.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/london-is-getting-worse/

    Probably because that excellent and eloquent article has been the most-read on the Spectator site, all day
    I read it, there were some big words.

    The word is he might have posted on here a decade or two ago, but probably not. We don't have too many celebrities posting on PB. I wonder if he'll ever do Strictly or I'm a Celebrity.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited December 6

    Romanian court annuls first round of election results

    That's going to get fun...

    EDIT: do you have a link?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 6

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am afraid to say, PB, that the Weird Drones Shit is happening again


    “Drone sightings reported over New Jersey, now FBI involved. Here's what we know so far”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/04/drone-sightings-new-jersey/76762389007/

    https://x.com/ethicaltruther/status/1864771727818957067?s=46

    Same still going at Lakenheath, where the U.S. is about to station. Nuclear weapons for the first time in 15 years.

    According to the unconfirmed reoort above, they can still operate in high winds.
    Get back to us when there is one shot down, or seen in daylight and properly photographed.

    Its not aliens folks.
    So give me an explanation, and then tell me why we shouldn’t be worried or interested
    You can be interested if you want. I sense that you live for the dramatic and thus are WANTING a dramatic resolution. How about someone thought they saw something and now others are thinking they are seeing things (contagion). Or that after someone thought they saw something, some local idiots then started using drones for fun.

    I doubt very much its the Chinese or the Russians.

    I'd rule out aliens.

    People are, on the whole, terrible witnesses.
    I said give me your explanation and tell me why we shouldn’t be worried or interested

    Because you literally said this is “unexciting” and “PB shrugs”
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Romanian court annuls first round of election results

    Saving democracy by cancelling elections?
This discussion has been closed.