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Eclipsing Badenoch. Soon Farage could be the favourite to be the next PM – politicalbetting.com

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 6
    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eabhal said:

    FYI - the UK set another wind generation record last night, with 21.9GW between 9.30pm and 10pm.

    I'm still interested in why there is a floor of 3GW for gas, even though we were exporting power and using it to refill pumped hydro. Is it a market or technical reason?

    The wholesale price hit a low of £1.56/MwH at 1 AM which is surely below the gas input cost though ?

    If 3 GW of gas was being supplied at that time I'd have thought the price would be higher if it's based on gas (Most expensive input at that time)

    There might well be some further granularity in the price/mix which isn't picked up by Kate Morley.
    Yeah, that's why I thought it must be a technical thing with the power stations unable to fully close down. Over the past week prices have gone negative a few times, which is some fun economics. You'd have been paid to smelt aluminium, use an electric arc furnace, or charge your car.
    Perhaps the 3 GW IS being produced but not required by the grid, so maybe they're getting only £2.38 (Or indeed paying at times) despite burning £40 of gas or whatever. I'd hope the price formula doesn't pay for excess when we're a net generator.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    edited December 6
    I see the red alert doesn't quite get to Big_G beyond the Menai, but the inclusion of Somerset Levels in the red area and specific commentary on 'funneling through the Bristol Channel' looks to be a concern. High tide tomorrow (at Weston-SM) is around 10.30am, towards the end of the warning window.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 6
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
  • I see that there's a new Italian EV firm called Aehra, whose cars do seem to have some of the classic Italian style.

    We need a neo-classic British made and owned EV line, I think, supported
    by Starmer funding EV infrastructure ideas such as Malmesbury's.
  • Apologies for the typos, earlier on.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited December 6
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.
    I hope not. The fairest and probably most environmentally friendly way to make the transition to EVs is to encourage people to keep old bangers going for as long as possible.

    The problem with investing in cars, and particularly EVs, is the benefits accrue primarily to those on highest incomes. You can mitigate that somewhat by abolishing VAT on ICE repairs and maintenance, thereby helping those on middle incomes make their next car an EV, along with getting bus services back to where they were before privatisation for those on the lowest incomes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 6
    Pro_Rata said:

    I see the red alert doesn't quite get to Big_G beyond the Menai, but the inclusion of Somerset Levels in the red area and specific commentary on 'funneling through the Bristol Channel' looks to be a concern. High tide tomorrow (at Weston-SM) is around 10.30am, towards the end of the warning window.

    Mm, that's not great, for anyone who's read about the 17th century event sometimes called a tsunami. But at least it's roughly halfway between new and full moons.

    Edit: might be just as well my friend in the area lives well up on the Lias escarpment, and not on the Levels peats.
  • mwadams said:

    Eabhal said:

    FYI - the UK set another wind generation record last night, with 21.9GW between 9.30pm and 10pm.

    I'm still interested in why there is a floor of 3GW for gas, even though we were exporting power and using it to refill pumped hydro. Is it a market or technical reason?

    I'm always surprised that our generation is up on "notably windy days". Wind farms are designed to operate optimally around a knee in their power curve - and notably windy days are in the "we just have to turn it off" part of that curve, rather than the knee. Maybe it is because there are longer periods at the top end of the knee, so when you integrate that it more than offsets the "shutting it down because it is too windy" bits.
    Do they actually have to shut them down? You'd think it would be possible to feather the blades during strong winds to keep the torque exerted by the wind within engineering limits.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 6
    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    What's a "massive discount", as in "Manufacturers gave "massive" discounts worth around £4bn on electric vehicles (EVs), the SMMT said."?

    (Looking on CarWow for electrics, I'm seeing discounts from around 5% to 16-17% with a small number of more generous outliers such as MGs at 20%+.

    On the benchmark of wanting the discount to cover 12-18 months depreciation, that's sort of OK for some if there is extra range or similar, but nice second hand vehicles may be a better option).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Dura_Ace said:


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    Starmer has performed pretty much to my low expectations. There is not a fantastic amount of policy difference between his administration and the tories that preceded it. A WFA there, an IHT here. Who gives a fuck? It's not exactly Father Lenin's "State and Revolution".

    However, one thing he undeniably is, is a grinder. Since the "Peak Boris" of the Hartlepool by-election (I can't remember who called it as Peak Boris on here, but chapeau) he relentlessly dragged the Labour, who are not always the most biddable congregation, into power with a handsome majority. Maybe he'll apply the same industrious obduracy to the business of government.
    I can see that, but I can also see a counter argument: he did not relentlessly drag Labour into power. Instead, he just sat around whilst the Conservatives imploded.

    A question is how much the remarkably low Labour share got at the GE could have been increased. What should worry Labour is the idea that Starmer and his team did work relentlessly, and that 34% is pretty much their max potential vote.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    So we'll be Cuba with shit weather and USA making its mind up whether to hate us or not.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    Well they’ve alienated their existing customers nearly as much as Bud Light did, although the concept car that’s never close to making production looks okay for something that will never make production.
    There are almost no 'existing customers', that's the problem!
    Well then sell the brand to someone like Eagle, who can keep the old name (and the old cars) running.

    Who is going for the electric “New Jag”, rather than the Porsche or the Tesla?
    It will be interesting to see if Musk's political machinations have screwed Tesla sales (and if he can persuade Trump not to sanction Tesla's Chinese end). Based on my experience of no fewer than one Tesla, they are pretty rubbish cars. The Porsche (based on a similar sample size) is better, except that Porsche badges carry their own reputation.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    It's more, I think, about creating such a bizarre design. Who is it for? Who is the new clientele?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 6
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.

    Discaimer: my current car is a 20-year-old Mercedes E500 with a V8 in it.
    We are going to try and keep our 08 Passat going for as long as possible. It's got under 100k, and tbh the main things that go on it are the same as my 16 Peugeot - frequent various suspension related stuff going due to our atrocious roads. The garage fixed our Passat up same day with a broken rear coil link, obviously it's something they keep in stock so we're not the only ones with this issue...
  • Historic Marble Arch M&S store set for demolition after lengthy battle

    ➡️ ianvisits.co.uk/articles/histo…

    After years of appeals and counter appeals, the Marks and Spencer store at Marble Arch will be demolished and replaced with a modern office and retail block.

    https://x.com/ianvisits/status/1864980745569087719

    Good, get building.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    Eabhal said:

    FYI - the UK set another wind generation record last night, with 21.9GW between 9.30pm and 10pm.

    I'm still interested in why there is a floor of 3GW for gas, even though we were exporting power and using it to refill pumped hydro. Is it a market or technical reason?

    I think if you look into the detailed data you can see the generation from each power plant. If I had the time to investigate that's where I'd look first to see which plants the 3GW is from, is it the same plants, is it a bunch of them all generating a little (so on hot standby), or just a couple delivering power to a specific place (maybe London, or wherever all the data centres are).
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668

    mwadams said:

    Eabhal said:

    FYI - the UK set another wind generation record last night, with 21.9GW between 9.30pm and 10pm.

    I'm still interested in why there is a floor of 3GW for gas, even though we were exporting power and using it to refill pumped hydro. Is it a market or technical reason?

    I'm always surprised that our generation is up on "notably windy days". Wind farms are designed to operate optimally around a knee in their power curve - and notably windy days are in the "we just have to turn it off" part of that curve, rather than the knee. Maybe it is because there are longer periods at the top end of the knee, so when you integrate that it more than offsets the "shutting it down because it is too windy" bits.
    Do they actually have to shut them down? You'd think it would be possible to feather the blades during strong winds to keep the torque exerted by the wind within engineering limits.
    Yes - there's a steep fall-off after the knee where it just produces dramatically less power (partly due to feathering etc), and then a window after that were you just have to shut it down completely. I have exaggerated the sense in which it is "shut down".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    It's more, I think, about creating such a bizarre design. Who is it for? Who is the new clientele?
    All modern cars look bizarre to me ...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Historic Marble Arch M&S store set for demolition after lengthy battle

    ➡️ ianvisits.co.uk/articles/histo…

    After years of appeals and counter appeals, the Marks and Spencer store at Marble Arch will be demolished and replaced with a modern office and retail block.

    https://x.com/ianvisits/status/1864980745569087719

    Good, get building.

    Labour will do anything to repudiate Marks.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,760
    edited December 6

    Any Italian EV's, on the hiruzonn?
    Stereoypical I know, but I'm imagining some absolutely beautifully designed lines and curves, that only get you to the nearest Trattoria, in range or longevity of batteries.

    Ferrari and Lamborghini are both doing BEV SUVs for the 2026 model year because the market needs more of those. There is also badge engineered Stellantis dross in the Alfa and Maserati ranges. The Fiat 500 EVs are probably ok if you like that sort of thing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 6

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    It's more, I think, about creating such a bizarre design. Who is it for? Who is the new clientele?
    My colleague reckons it's for the Knightsbridge playboys with Daddy's oil money.

    Clearly not for anyone who drives round on normal roads even if they're incredibly rich; a car that low to the ground with batteries in it wouldn't last 5 minutes out here with all the potholes.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394

    Historic Marble Arch M&S store set for demolition after lengthy battle

    ➡️ ianvisits.co.uk/articles/histo…

    After years of appeals and counter appeals, the Marks and Spencer store at Marble Arch will be demolished and replaced with a modern office and retail block.

    https://x.com/ianvisits/status/1864980745569087719

    Good, get building.

    Does knocking down a massive shop to play property developers count as "building" in any useful sense?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 6
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.
    I hope not. The fairest and probably most environmentally friendly way to make the transition to EVs is to encourage people to keep old bangers going for as long as possible.

    The problem with investing in cars, and particularly EVs, is the benefits accrue primarily to those on highest incomes. You can mitigate that somewhat by abolishing VAT on ICE repairs and maintenance, thereby helping those on middle incomes make their next car an EV, along with getting bus services back to where they were before privatisation for those on the lowest incomes.
    Massive like.

    The problem is that what’s actually happening is the London ULEZ scheme, that affects mostly those working on low incomes and unusual hours, increasing the gap between the haves and the have-nots in the name of environmentalism.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    They've turned the king against us!

    https://x.com/JakeWSimons/status/1864640591834849331
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 6

    The thing that is killing the German automakers, they are crap at software. Brilliant at ICE engineering, rubbish at writing software that the consumer will interact with. Also not exactly smashing the AI / ML stuff either.

    A friend who worked for Tata (did a lot of teardowns of rival cars) said that the mishmash of computers and controllers, badly networked together in quite high end cars was startling. His background was software engineering, with a bunch of electronics knowledge.

    He reckoned it came down to separate units within the manufacturers, all jealously guarding "their" bit.
    I'd add trends such as outsourcing larger subsystems to external suppliers, rather than just components.

    One of the trends in JiT and the Toyota Way and startup of Nissan Washington and so on was to work with your suppliers to the extent that they installed their parts in your cars at the car plant iirc.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Observer sale to Tortoise approved

    Excellent. That will wind up the Guardian hacks even more. Perhaps they can go on indefinite strike.
    Dura_Ace said:


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    Starmer has performed pretty much to my low expectations. There is not a fantastic amount of policy difference between his administration and the tories that preceded it. A WFA there, an IHT here. Who gives a fuck? It's not exactly Father Lenin's "State and Revolution".

    However, one thing he undeniably is, is a grinder. Since the "Peak Boris" of the Hartlepool by-election (I can't remember who called it as Peak Boris on here, but chapeau) he relentlessly dragged the Labour, who are not always the most biddable congregation, into power with a handsome majority. Maybe he'll apply the same industrious obduracy to the business of government.
    It was Ishmael who called Peak Boris.

    I also think Horse may have done too, independently.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    mwadams said:

    Eabhal said:

    FYI - the UK set another wind generation record last night, with 21.9GW between 9.30pm and 10pm.

    I'm still interested in why there is a floor of 3GW for gas, even though we were exporting power and using it to refill pumped hydro. Is it a market or technical reason?

    I'm always surprised that our generation is up on "notably windy days". Wind farms are designed to operate optimally around a knee in their power curve - and notably windy days are in the "we just have to turn it off" part of that curve, rather than the knee. Maybe it is because there are longer periods at the top end of the knee, so when you integrate that it more than offsets the "shutting it down because it is too windy" bits.
    Do they actually have to shut them down? You'd think it would be possible to feather the blades during strong winds to keep the torque exerted by the wind within engineering limits.
    They can feather blades:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_pitch#Wind_turbines

    Though note the following: "blade pitch malfunctions account for 23% of all wind turbine production downtime, and account for 21% of all component failures"

    Because maintenance on the large turbines, especially offshore ones, is so difficult, they like to keep them as simple as possible. Which is one reason why complex gearboxes to give them more range power are not used more (variable-speed wind turbines).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    It's more, I think, about creating such a bizarre design. Who is it for? Who is the new clientele?
    My colleague reckons it's for the Knightsbridge playboys with Daddy's oil money.
    Are there enough of them? Surely that's heading for building a few hundred a year, then?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    mwadams said:

    Eabhal said:

    FYI - the UK set another wind generation record last night, with 21.9GW between 9.30pm and 10pm.

    I'm still interested in why there is a floor of 3GW for gas, even though we were exporting power and using it to refill pumped hydro. Is it a market or technical reason?

    I'm always surprised that our generation is up on "notably windy days". Wind farms are designed to operate optimally around a knee in their power curve - and notably windy days are in the "we just have to turn it off" part of that curve, rather than the knee. Maybe it is because there are longer periods at the top end of the knee, so when you integrate that it more than offsets the "shutting it down because it is too windy" bits.
    That's because wind turbines are distributed widely geographically, and so while there will be periods where some turbines in some locations have to be stopped, more of the wind turbines will be in the ideal part of the curve.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 6

    They've turned the king against us!

    https://x.com/JakeWSimons/status/1864640591834849331

    Three points:

    1 - That's Jake Wallis Simons, the Editor of the Jewish Chronicle. *
    2 - He's thanking them for their mediation of prisoner exchanges between Ukraine and Russia, which seems fair enough.
    3 - Agree that "our two great nations" is a bit boot-licky, but this is diplomacy. The FO would look for positives in any country.

    (* Full Disclosure: I have a bit of a downer on him, as he's on the Spectator "rant about people who ride cycles" rota.)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Even Starmer thinks the WFA cut was a mistake reports John Rentoul.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Dura_Ace said:


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    Starmer has performed pretty much to my low expectations. There is not a fantastic amount of policy difference between his administration and the tories that preceded it. A WFA there, an IHT here. Who gives a fuck? It's not exactly Father Lenin's "State and Revolution".

    However, one thing he undeniably is, is a grinder. Since the "Peak Boris" of the Hartlepool by-election (I can't remember who called it as Peak Boris on here, but chapeau) he relentlessly dragged the Labour, who are not always the most biddable congregation, into power with a handsome majority. Maybe he'll apply the same industrious obduracy to the business of government.
    The reason for the lack of policy difference is that this government, like all since 1945 is a social democrat one. For potential real policy differences you have to look at USA under Trump, not the UK. Reform is also social democrat in policy + national populism. (Note their boring orthodoxy on pensions, free health, NATO, welfare state).

    Yes, I agree he is obdurate. But he has made the mistake of pinning his tail to the donkey of KPI/target culture, when the job of the government/state is to run all of it competently. That amounts to about half of all UK plc's activity.

    He has 5 somethings and 6 something elses; but we may decide that where he is failing is in water supply, the size of navy, declaring war on Sweden, migration or NHS dentistry and that teaching teethbrushing in infant schools isn't enough.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited December 6
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.
    I hope not. The fairest and probably most environmentally friendly way to make the transition to EVs is to encourage people to keep old bangers going for as long as possible.

    The problem with investing in cars, and particularly EVs, is the benefits accrue primarily to those on highest incomes. You can mitigate that somewhat by abolishing VAT on ICE repairs and maintenance, thereby helping those on middle incomes make their next car an EV, along with getting bus services back to where they were before privatisation for those on the lowest incomes.
    Massive like.

    The problem is that what’s actually happening is the London ULEZ scheme, that affects mostly those working on low incomes and unusual hours, increasing the gap between the haves and the have-nots in the name of environmentalism.
    It depends where you draw the line. Even people who can only afford to run an older car will likely find themselves in a high income decile, and 9/10 cars in outer London were compliant anyway.

    It's also a different policy to the transition to EVs, with different objectives and costs, and therefore different cost-benefit calculations. It's kids from low income households who suffer most from air pollution.
  • Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.
    I hope not. The fairest and probably most environmentally friendly way to make the transition to EVs is to encourage people to keep old bangers going for as long as possible.

    The problem with investing in cars, and particularly EVs, is the benefits accrue primarily to those on highest incomes. You can mitigate that somewhat by abolishing VAT on ICE repairs and maintenance, thereby helping those on middle incomes make their next car an EV, along with getting bus services back to where they were before privatisation for those on the lowest incomes.
    I'm not sure that keeping old ICEs going for as long as possible would be the most environmentally friendly thing to do. After all, most of the emissions associated with an ICE car are produced during its use rather than its production. It's still better than buying a new ICE car though.

    But as you say, investment in public (and active) trasnport is the best option.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    It's more, I think, about creating such a bizarre design. Who is it for? Who is the new clientele?
    My colleague reckons it's for the Knightsbridge playboys with Daddy's oil money.
    Are there enough of them? Surely that's heading for building a few hundred a year, then?
    Maybe some sales to the MENA (Well the loaded ME part anyway) region.

    Basically you need

    1) Good roads
    2) Mahoosive buckets of cash
    3) No taste

    to buy that new Jag.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,760
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.

    Driving old ICE cars gets naturally more expensive and unfeasible anyway as very few brands and models have long term OEM support or sufficient aftermarket crap to make up the difference.

    Usually, manufacturers will stock around 10 years worth of parts in the distribution network after a car goes out of production. After that some model-specific parts like trim pieces, etc. get very hard to find. BMW used to be really good on this but have recently curtailed the practice as somebody finally worked out that it was costing them a fortune.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    Foxy said:

    I think Badenoch is a lay for next PM.

    3 reasons:

    1) she may well not be LOTO by 2029
    2) if she survives that long it is quite likely that she won't be in charge of the largest party after the GE.
    3) it's increasingly likely that Labour will change PM before the next election.

    I think Farage is far too short too.

    I know its me being a hostage to fortune, but I have to ask why you think that Labour will change its rules and make it any easier to change Leaders when in Government when it was literally impossible while in Opposition under their current rules. And even if they did, who in the current line up of possible successors will be able to turn around Labour's current political and economic woes through any drastic policy/political spin on the main issues ?

    I also think that while Badenoch has an incredible tough job ahead of her as the Leader of the Opposition because of that incredble Labour result at the last GE, it is in some ways what will make her position more safe especially as because she is already turning out to be a far more formidable opponent for Farage and Reform than Starmer and the Labour party right now are and already the local by-elections and polling are reflecting that.

    Lets see how Farage manages being a constitueny MP and Leader in charge of Reform with five MPs for the next five years, will he like he did with UKIP see a never ending revolving door of key players who joined his party and then left disillusioned with the set up under his leadership?....

    imo Starmer will step down around the time of the next election, and probably before. If he does follow Harold Wilson by resigning, then the question of how hard it is for Labour to oust a leader is moot.

    Starmer is in his 60s and soon will be older than any previous Prime Minister since Jim Callaghan. He is not a natural politician but at heart a lawyer. He has no great project he wants to see enacted. And (shades of Wilson?) he is starting to misspeak. For these reasons, I expect him to retire.
    Starmer is 15 years younger than the current President and the President elect of the US.

    Now he may do a Hollande and step down and hope Labour finds a Macron like figure like Streeting to replace him but age wise he is still certainly young enough to do the job
    PB is weird on age. No reason sixtysomethings can't be effective leaders.
    Majority have a visceral hatred of pensioners
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.

    Discaimer: my current car is a 20-year-old Mercedes E500 with a V8 in it.
    We are going to try and keep our 08 Passat going for as long as possible. It's got under 100k, and tbh the main things that go on it are the same as my 16 Peugeot - frequent various suspension related stuff going due to our atrocious roads. The garage fixed our Passat up same day with a broken rear coil link, obviously it's something they keep in stock so we're not the only ones with this issue...
    Mrs Eek now has a 2014 VW Beetle cabriolet because when my mini went she grab the small fun car choice.

    The plan is to keep it until it completely dies which is why the £1000 I spent last month on an emissions issues isn’t a problem. I suspect for a lot of people it would have been though
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394

    Even Starmer thinks the WFA cut was a mistake reports John Rentoul.

    Starmer would have qualified soon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    MattW said:

    The thing that is killing the German automakers, they are crap at software. Brilliant at ICE engineering, rubbish at writing software that the consumer will interact with. Also not exactly smashing the AI / ML stuff either.

    A friend who worked for Tata (did a lot of teardowns of rival cars) said that the mishmash of computers and controllers, badly networked together in quite high end cars was startling. His background was software engineering, with a bunch of electronics knowledge.

    He reckoned it came down to separate units within the manufacturers, all jealously guarding "their" bit.
    I'd add trends such as outsourcing larger subsystems to external suppliers, rather than just components.

    One of the trends in JiT and the Toyota Way and startup of Nissan Washington and so on was to work with your suppliers to the extent that they installed their parts in your cars at the car plant iirc.

    Yes, indeed. The social and engineering history of the idea of outsourcing a "box" is of interest. As system became more complex, a complete design of anything became too much for paper. So the idea of the subsystems as box with defined characteristics took hold. Weighs this much. X goes in, Y comes out.

    The classic is the Saturn 5 rocket. There were no actual complete blueprints to lose (urban legend). This is because the top end blueprints specified sub components. Which in turn had other sub components. A nested series of boxes within boxes.... This matches up perfectly with a pyramid of suppliers.

    We are now decades into the computer age. A complete, detailed design can be managed in a single system. Moreover, the design systems are no longer just drawings. Testing and rules can be incorporated - when a wire is moved, the curvature can be checked for viability. Then the whole design is tested in simulation.

    But the corporate culture is to outsource. To try and get hand off risk to suppliers. See Boeing and how well that went - aside from the aircraft debacles, the doghouses on the Starliner capsule come to mind.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Dura_Ace said:

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    PB responded to the Jaguar redesign in a quiet and measured way, recognising the magnitude if the task and how the directors turned "last-throw-of-the-dice" into an advantage by a radical redesign...

    /s

    (welcome back, btw)

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.

    Discaimer: my current car is a 20-year-old Mercedes E500 with a V8 in it.
    We are going to try and keep our 08 Passat going for as long as possible. It's got under 100k, and tbh the main things that go on it are the same as my 16 Peugeot - frequent various suspension related stuff going due to our atrocious roads. The garage fixed our Passat up same day with a broken rear coil link, obviously it's something they keep in stock so we're not the only ones with this issue...
    Mrs Eek now has a 2014 VW Beetle cabriolet because when my mini went she grab the small fun car choice.

    The plan is to keep it until it completely dies which is why the £1000 I spent last month on an emissions issues isn’t a problem. I suspect for a lot of people it would have been though
    Did your garage offer to thrash it round the block for the emissions issue ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    What's a "massive discount", as in "Manufacturers gave "massive" discounts worth around £4bn on electric vehicles (EVs), the SMMT said."?

    (Looking on CarWow for electrics, I'm seeing discounts from around 5% to 16-17% with a small number of more generous outliers such as MGs at 20%+.

    On the benchmark of wanting the discount to cover 12-18 months depreciation, that's sort of OK for some if there is extra range or similar, but nice second hand vehicles may be a better option).
    Almost no-one has yet realised that the market for second-hand EVs is about as big as the market for second-hand mobile phones, and this will quickly feed into the lease prices for new EVs.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited December 6

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.
    I hope not. The fairest and probably most environmentally friendly way to make the transition to EVs is to encourage people to keep old bangers going for as long as possible.

    The problem with investing in cars, and particularly EVs, is the benefits accrue primarily to those on highest incomes. You can mitigate that somewhat by abolishing VAT on ICE repairs and maintenance, thereby helping those on middle incomes make their next car an EV, along with getting bus services back to where they were before privatisation for those on the lowest incomes.
    I'm not sure that keeping old ICEs going for as long as possible would be the most environmentally friendly thing to do. After all, most of the emissions associated with an ICE car are produced during its use rather than its production. It's still better than buying a new ICE car though.

    But as you say, investment in public (and active) trasnport is the best option.
    I suppose my point is it's better than buying a new ICE car. The longer we extend old ICEs, the fewer cumulative ICEs. My car, now 10 years old, is starting to fall apart - I can't afford a new EV and don't have the infrastructure to charge one. But a used in 5 years? Quite likely, so I'll try to keep it going till then.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    MattW said:

    They've turned the king against us!

    https://x.com/JakeWSimons/status/1864640591834849331

    Three points:

    1 - That's Jake Wallis Simons, the Editor of the Jewish Chronicle. *
    2 - He's thanking them for their mediation of prisoner exchanges between Ukraine and Russia, which seems fair enough.
    3 - Agree that "our two great nations" is a bit boot-licky, but this is diplomacy. The FO would look for positives in any country.

    (* Full Disclosure: I have a bit of a downer on him, as he's on the Spectator "rant about people who ride cycles" rota.)
    I don't think Jake's being paying attention if he hasn't notced HMG grovelling to horrible regimes over the years. In fact I can think of another one (among several) in roughly the same region as Qatar.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    fitalass said:

    Foxy said:

    I think Badenoch is a lay for next PM.

    3 reasons:

    1) she may well not be LOTO by 2029
    2) if she survives that long it is quite likely that she won't be in charge of the largest party after the GE.
    3) it's increasingly likely that Labour will change PM before the next election.

    I think Farage is far too short too.

    I know its me being a hostage to fortune, but I have to ask why you think that Labour will change its rules and make it any easier to change Leaders when in Government when it was literally impossible while in Opposition under their current rules. And even if they did, who in the current line up of possible successors will be able to turn around Labour's current political and economic woes through any drastic policy/political spin on the main issues ?

    I also think that while Badenoch has an incredible tough job ahead of her as the Leader of the Opposition because of that incredble Labour result at the last GE, it is in some ways what will make her position more safe especially as because she is already turning out to be a far more formidable opponent for Farage and Reform than Starmer and the Labour party right now are and already the local by-elections and polling are reflecting that.

    Lets see how Farage manages being a constitueny MP and Leader in charge of Reform with five MPs for the next five years, will he like he did with UKIP see a never ending revolving door of key players who joined his party and then left disillusioned with the set up under his leadership?....

    imo Starmer will step down around the time of the next election, and probably before. If he does follow Harold Wilson by resigning, then the question of how hard it is for Labour to oust a leader is moot.

    Starmer is in his 60s and soon will be older than any previous Prime Minister since Jim Callaghan. He is not a natural politician but at heart a lawyer. He has no great project he wants to see enacted. And (shades of Wilson?) he is starting to misspeak. For these reasons, I expect him to retire.
    Misspeaking occurs when the truth is not forthcoming
    You think Starmer was lying when he called Louise Haigh the Justice Secretary the other day? Wilson resigned at 60 after his memory started to fail him. Starmer is already older.
    I'm 52. I was the internal for a PhD viva on Tuesday and on Wednesday I realised that I have made a 'miss-speak' about something during the viva. Neither the candidate nor the external picked up on it (for differing reasons - the candidate didn't know and the external was probably too polite).

    We all make mistakes from time to time. When it happens too frequently it can be an issue - see Biden.

    Starmer is certainly prone to the odd gaffe, but he seems pretty much mentally on top of his game.*

    *Sadly I am not sure that he has much of a plan for the next 4.5 years, rather in the style of Gordon Brown. Brown strived all through Blairs PMship to get himself to No 10. When he got there the was nothing left. No ideas, not strategy, nothing.

    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?
    I thought a viva was a rust bucket British car as well, you learn something every day
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    Well they’ve alienated their existing customers nearly as much as Bud Light did, although the concept car that’s never close to making production looks okay for something that will never make production.
    There are almost no 'existing customers', that's the problem!
    I believe there are at least two current owners on PB.
    Whether that counts as existing I'll leave to others.
    name and shame
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352

    Dura_Ace said:


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    Starmer has performed pretty much to my low expectations. There is not a fantastic amount of policy difference between his administration and the tories that preceded it. A WFA there, an IHT here. Who gives a fuck? It's not exactly Father Lenin's "State and Revolution".

    However, one thing he undeniably is, is a grinder. Since the "Peak Boris" of the Hartlepool by-election (I can't remember who called it as Peak Boris on here, but chapeau) he relentlessly dragged the Labour, who are not always the most biddable congregation, into power with a handsome majority. Maybe he'll apply the same industrious obduracy to the business of government.
    I can see that, but I can also see a counter argument: he did not relentlessly drag Labour into power. Instead, he just sat around whilst the Conservatives imploded.

    A question is how much the remarkably low Labour share got at the GE could have been increased. What should worry Labour is the idea that Starmer and his team did work relentlessly, and that 34% is pretty much their max potential vote.
    The counter counter argument is that 34% is not that bad in modern European legislative elections, exceeding the vote share any other party in Western Europe apart from the stubbornly duopolistic Maltese government and opposition.

    (As you go east, there are sloghtly more examples, for example in Poland and Greece).

    But, by that score, I'd note 24% is not as apocalyptic for the Tories as it would have been 25 years ago.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    algarkirk said:

    So if people don't mind me talking even more sh*t than usual:

    The water companies get a lot of (justifiable) bad press about sewage releases, often done at times of heavy rain. But the scale of the problem they have to tackle is quite amazing.

    In late November, London suffered 24 hours of heavy rain. Fortunately, the new Tideway tunnel, though incomplete, has started operation. In those 24 hours, it intercepted 850,000 tonnes of rain/sewage.

    850,000 tonnes.

    And even then, it was only half full.

    That figure is mind-bogglingly massive.

    https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/850000t-of-sewage-captured-by-thames-tideway-network-during-24-hour-storm-event-04-12-2024/

    This is interesting, but more interesting if we knew, for example, how often that sort of rain happened 20, 40, 60, 100 years ago. Water outfits probably notice that it rains in the UK; they have three big jobs: coping with it, coping with sewage and providing drinking water. These three tasks are right at the top of critical infrastructure of the nation. So it doesn't matter how massive it is, and it doesn't matter who owns its debts, it still has to be done.

    Multiply this by a few (defence, local government, health care etc) and there is no problem seeing that we are perhaps £100 billion pa short in current tax and spending plans. Good luck Labour.
    I don't think that day in November was particularly notable, rainfall-wise. Traditionally, when it happens, they just let the overflow go into the Thames. This was known about, and monitoring was very poor. Now, it has (rightly) become unacceptable.

    The only major change will not have been the weather, but the increase in population. But the issue does not appear to be the amount of cr@p going into the system (because the old systems coped very well except in times of extreme rainfall). And we are not massively rainier, so it will not be that.

    I do wonder how much increasing areas of concrete and tarmac are hindering things by putting rainwater into the drainage system quicker. SuDS is rather a good idea...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    edited December 6
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    What's a "massive discount", as in "Manufacturers gave "massive" discounts worth around £4bn on electric vehicles (EVs), the SMMT said."?

    (Looking on CarWow for electrics, I'm seeing discounts from around 5% to 16-17% with a small number of more generous outliers such as MGs at 20%+.

    On the benchmark of wanting the discount to cover 12-18 months depreciation, that's sort of OK for some if there is extra range or similar, but nice second hand vehicles may be a better option).
    Almost no-one has yet realised that the market for second-hand EVs is about as big as the market for second-hand mobile phones, and this will quickly feed into the lease prices for new EVs.
    If there is a glut of cheap second-hand EV cars in ~5 years that would be perfect timing for me.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    edited December 6
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    It's more, I think, about creating such a bizarre design. Who is it for? Who is the new clientele?
    My colleague reckons it's for the Knightsbridge playboys with Daddy's oil money.
    Are there enough of them? Surely that's heading for building a few hundred a year, then?
    Maybe some sales to the MENA (Well the loaded ME part anyway) region.

    Basically you need

    1) Good roads
    2) Mahoosive buckets of cash
    3) No taste

    to buy that new Jag.
    What was shown was a concept car.
    Once the reality of regulations and practicality hit it will look completely different. Probably only a metallic pink paint option will be recognisable from the concept.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    It's more, I think, about creating such a bizarre design. Who is it for? Who is the new clientele?
    My colleague reckons it's for the Knightsbridge playboys with Daddy's oil money.

    Clearly not for anyone who drives round on normal roads even if they're incredibly rich; a car that low to the ground with batteries in it wouldn't last 5 minutes out here with all the potholes.
    Agree. I have thought carefully what our second car should be, and between the Jag and the current rusting Micra, the Micra has it by about 20 lengths. The narrow muddy country lanes of Cumbria don't fell quite the home for the Jag; it looks as if it would be affronted by a major encounter with a slurry tanker.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Dura_Ace said:

    Father Lenin's "State and Revolution"...

    I have tried to read it (it's on the tablet) but it's a very hard read. Conversely, Kaczynski's "Industrial Society and its Future" is an utter banger: very readable.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    He seems to have had a long-standing commitment to assisted dying and it looks like he'll get that done. I suspect he knows what he wants to do in lots of little ways, but what he lacks is a coherent big vision.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.

    Discaimer: my current car is a 20-year-old Mercedes E500 with a V8 in it.
    We are going to try and keep our 08 Passat going for as long as possible. It's got under 100k, and tbh the main things that go on it are the same as my 16 Peugeot - frequent various suspension related stuff going due to our atrocious roads. The garage fixed our Passat up same day with a broken rear coil link, obviously it's something they keep in stock so we're not the only ones with this issue...
    Mrs Eek now has a 2014 VW Beetle cabriolet because when my mini went she grab the small fun car choice.

    The plan is to keep it until it completely dies which is why the £1000 I spent last month on an emissions issues isn’t a problem. I suspect for a lot of people it would have been though
    I have spent £2500 in the last two years on my 2010 car, which is slightly more than the car is now worth. But it's fun to drive, and any second-hand replacement might have issues of its own. At least I know this one's sorted. Until the next thing...
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    Finally SKS takes the gloves off, finally he raises his pitch, finally he presses the reality button

    He did this in his better moments of the GE campaign. Unleashes his anger and pent up contempt for 14 years of Tory mismanagement.

    Small steps but the "don't expect to see better services by Christmas".... "Don't tell us you have 92% green belt" type messages are Clear and firm

    Judge us in 5 years is former still.

    Only a complete fuckwit expects immediate change, but sadly this is politics and it's full of fuckwits on all sides.

    The National Renewal mantra WILL stick and become increasingly powerful WHEN the greenshoots become apparent and people see for themselves and ignore the rabid media.

    Once that happens and I suggest by 2027 watch thecTSUNAMI engulf the haters and rabid agitators and the populous Flood back to Labour and hope winning over division.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    He seems to have had a long-standing commitment to assisted dying and it looks like he'll get that done. I suspect he knows what he wants to do in lots of little ways, but what he lacks is a coherent big vision.
    Much as I hate to recommend Unheard, TomMcTague's got a new article that agrees with you

    https://unherd.com/2024/12/keir-starmer-has-no-dream/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    MattW said:

    The thing that is killing the German automakers, they are crap at software. Brilliant at ICE engineering, rubbish at writing software that the consumer will interact with. Also not exactly smashing the AI / ML stuff either.

    A friend who worked for Tata (did a lot of teardowns of rival cars) said that the mishmash of computers and controllers, badly networked together in quite high end cars was startling. His background was software engineering, with a bunch of electronics knowledge.

    He reckoned it came down to separate units within the manufacturers, all jealously guarding "their" bit.
    I'd add trends such as outsourcing larger subsystems to external suppliers, rather than just components.

    One of the trends in JiT and the Toyota Way and startup of Nissan Washington and so on was to work with your suppliers to the extent that they installed their parts in your cars at the car plant iirc.

    Yes, indeed. The social and engineering history of the idea of outsourcing a "box" is of interest. As system became more complex, a complete design of anything became too much for paper. So the idea of the subsystems as box with defined characteristics took hold. Weighs this much. X goes in, Y comes out.

    The classic is the Saturn 5 rocket. There were no actual complete blueprints to lose (urban legend). This is because the top end blueprints specified sub components. Which in turn had other sub components. A nested series of boxes within boxes.... This matches up perfectly with a pyramid of suppliers.

    We are now decades into the computer age. A complete, detailed design can be managed in a single system. Moreover, the design systems are no longer just drawings. Testing and rules can be incorporated - when a wire is moved, the curvature can be checked for viability. Then the whole design is tested in simulation.

    But the corporate culture is to outsource. To try and get hand off risk to suppliers. See Boeing and how well that went - aside from the aircraft debacles, the doghouses on the Starliner capsule come to mind.
    One of my favourite engineering stories comes from the Apollo project. A computer company was bidding to build a gubbins for the project. They designed it, then held a pitch meeting for NASA. They had a room full of salesmen and management, and were surprised that the NASA team seemed to comprise a single manager and several young men with pocket-protectors and glasses.

    The NASA team listened to the presentation, which explained how brilliant the gubbins would be. At the end, the company's senior manager asked: "Any questions?"

    One of the NASA team simply asked: "How does it fail?"

    None of the people from the company could answer. NASA assumed that the company would make something that would work; what they were interested in is what would happen if it went wrong - would it feed stray voltages into other cabling, would it catch fire, etc, etc.

    At every meeting afterwards, the company sent engineers to the NASA meeting, along with just a couple of management. Engineers talking directly to engineers.

    That is the way to outsource something, if you really need to.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 6
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    Because that sales mix is now mandated by law, so the manufacturers and dealers are restricting sales of cars with engines to avoid massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
    We're going to just end up with a shitload of old ICE cars being dragged out forever on the roads I think. Combined with the potholes and getting booked into a decent garage might be like finding a dentist free soon !
    Yes I’ve been saying this for years.

    Peak car was between about 2007 and 2012, when engines were naturally aspirated and mostly understressed, and will pretty much run forever so long as service parts are available. Good examples of these cars will appreciate and be maintained for a long time.

    From the politics side, I’d expect governments to try and make driving old ICE cars a lot more expensive, but the political capital required is massive.
    I hope not. The fairest and probably most environmentally friendly way to make the transition to EVs is to encourage people to keep old bangers going for as long as possible.

    The problem with investing in cars, and particularly EVs, is the benefits accrue primarily to those on highest incomes. You can mitigate that somewhat by abolishing VAT on ICE repairs and maintenance, thereby helping those on middle incomes make their next car an EV, along with getting bus services back to where they were before privatisation for those on the lowest incomes.
    I'm not sure that keeping old ICEs going for as long as possible would be the most environmentally friendly thing to do. After all, most of the emissions associated with an ICE car are produced during its use rather than its production. It's still better than buying a new ICE car though.

    But as you say, investment in public (and active) trasnport is the best option.
    I suppose my point is it's better than buying a new ICE car. The longer we extend old ICEs, the fewer cumulative ICEs. My car, now 10 years old, is starting to fall apart - I can't afford a new EV and don't have the infrastructure to charge one. But a used in 5 years? Quite likely, so I'll try to keep it going till then.
    I can't call how it is going to around values of second hand cars.

    Checking mine - Oct 2018 very low mileage (3k/year) VAG diesel estate - I'm being told it's still worth 70%+ of what I paid for it by guides, and 55% of the retail price at that time. That doesn't sound very credible, but who knows?

    I still need sensibly priced BEV cars which can tow decently when I come to change it, and I can't see many to choose from yet.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 6
    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    MattW said:

    They've turned the king against us!

    https://x.com/JakeWSimons/status/1864640591834849331

    Three points:

    1 - That's Jake Wallis Simons, the Editor of the Jewish Chronicle. *
    2 - He's thanking them for their mediation of prisoner exchanges between Ukraine and Russia, which seems fair enough.
    3 - Agree that "our two great nations" is a bit boot-licky, but this is diplomacy. The FO would look for positives in any country.

    (* Full Disclosure: I have a bit of a downer on him, as he's on the Spectator "rant about people who ride cycles" rota.)
    Re: * Full Disclosure - you're being very generous, if he's taking money for writing stuff like that, he's clearly a massive c***
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    It's probably too simplistic to say "bring back something like Sure Start as a broadly universal thing", but that's probably the place to start.

    (The benefits of not having the stigma and also having nice parents of nice children in the room probably outweigh the costs of not trying to laser-focus the spending on the most troubled families.)

    But yes- good to see someone trying to fix social problems before they become problems.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    What's a "massive discount", as in "Manufacturers gave "massive" discounts worth around £4bn on electric vehicles (EVs), the SMMT said."?

    (Looking on CarWow for electrics, I'm seeing discounts from around 5% to 16-17% with a small number of more generous outliers such as MGs at 20%+.

    On the benchmark of wanting the discount to cover 12-18 months depreciation, that's sort of OK for some if there is extra range or similar, but nice second hand vehicles may be a better option).
    Almost no-one has yet realised that the market for second-hand EVs is about as big as the market for second-hand mobile phones, and this will quickly feed into the lease prices for new EVs.
    If there is a glut of cheap second-hand EV cars in ~5 years that would be perfect timing for me.
    Possibly. The bigger problem is the need to establish a network of independent EV garages to service them - especially battery issues - outside the main dealer ecosystem. There’s some evidence of this happening in the US, but not elsewhere so far.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    edited December 6
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    I don't know a lot about cars, but I know a fair bit about advertising, and 'haute couture' that was not. It was a gammon's idea of cutting edge haute couture, hence several of the breed expressing a favourable opinion of the advertisement and the concept.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    edited December 6
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    It's niche - but the non sorting out of whether the cash uplift for non academised sixth forms can be used to match pay uplifts everywhere else in the education sector, to the point it has come to strike action, is a black mark against Philipson in my eyes.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    I don't know a lot about cars, but I know a fair bit about advertising, and 'haute couture' that was not. It was a gammon's idea of cutting edge haute couture, hence several of the breed expressing a favourable opinion of the advertisement and the concept.
    "Several of the breed" may have expressed a favourable opinion because they were looking at it sensibly, rather than just pathetically over-reacting. ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    He seems to have had a long-standing commitment to assisted dying and it looks like he'll get that done. I suspect he knows what he wants to do in lots of little ways, but what he lacks is a coherent big vision.
    “Assisted Dying”, the single issue pressed by Lord Alli of buying clothes for half the Cabinet fame.
  • As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    I defer to @Foxy on this, but my experience of working as a supplier to the NHS through the Milburn and Lansley years is that it is very heard to do anything (positive) whose impact is felt by the general public within a term. But there's plenty you can do that will *eventually* be positive, whose short term impact (both intended and unintended) causes a great deal of negative feeling.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 6

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    He seems to have had a long-standing commitment to assisted dying and it looks like he'll get that done. I suspect he knows what he wants to do in lots of little ways, but what he lacks is a coherent big vision.
    Vision is a word tinged with positivity, so I am not sure I can use it about Starmer, but certainly he has a plan - to execute the first part Britain's return to the EU, along with implementing much of the wider WEF platform. In order to do this, he needs to sustain a feeling of things going wrong, of the economy not working, of us needing 'joint solutions' on immigration and security, and to keep us aligned with all EU regulation.

    Where he seems to have slipped up is:
    *Believing he'd get a good few years of blaming the Tories for everything going wrong
    *Believing his Government would have some political capital, when he was actually elected on a wave of apathy

    Now he's buggered and his agenda with him.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    Sandpit said:


    Starmer seems to have fixated on simply getting Labour into government. Big tick, job done. But what is the point of power if you don't know what to do with it?

    He seems to have had a long-standing commitment to assisted dying and it looks like he'll get that done. I suspect he knows what he wants to do in lots of little ways, but what he lacks is a coherent big vision.
    “Assisted Dying”, the single issue pressed by Lord Alli of buying clothes for half the Cabinet fame.
    Do we think that'll pass 3rd reading ?

    I can see Farage switching his vote, but I assume enough others will stick with it for it to pass.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    Meanwhile a record number of driving tests are now done in automatic cars.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352

    As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.

    Aesthetically, I like the bigger Kia EV6 far better than its Hyundai platform share, which looks to me like as if it is the first car in decades to be hand aligned by 1970s panel beaters.

    I think they have a decent reputation now, but that's as far as my insight goes.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    There has been a lot of talk about copying Norway on here recently. In Norway they don't start school til 6, some kids will be over 6 and a half when they start. Is 4 just too early?
  • Pro_Rata said:

    As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.

    Aesthetically, I like the bigger Kia EV6 far better than its Hyundai platform share, which looks to me like as if it is the first car in decades to be hand aligned by 1970s panel beaters.

    I think they have a decent reputation now, but that's as far as my insight goes.
    Thanks, yes, it was the EV6, that caught my eye, aesthetically, as well.

    If their reputation for reliability is established now, too, even better, although it does look a bit too pricey to buy new, rather than second-hand.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    The same drive recreated in 2018.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1C3XxQr69U
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    I don't know a lot about cars, but I know a fair bit about advertising, and 'haute couture' that was not. It was a gammon's idea of cutting edge haute couture, hence several of the breed expressing a favourable opinion of the advertisement and the concept.
    "Several of the breed" may have expressed a favourable opinion because they were looking at it sensibly, rather than just pathetically over-reacting. ;)
    Perhaps.

    Was it you who some time ago was expressing support for an infrastructure scheme based on some sort of channel/ditch thing in (maybe) Norfolk, for flood protection?? I am sorry that's all I can remember about the conversation, but I want to remember what was said and that is very little to go on for a search.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    That is precisely where the UK has pitched itself tbf and it's working. European devs are coming to the UK because a senior gets £90-120k industry dependent vs €60-70k in Europe.

    We've got the highest concentration of talent and emerging tech companies on Europe, I think well over 50% share of investment (probably close to 90% over the last 6 months) in Europe for AI/ML over the last year.

    It's one of the reasons the EU keeps trying to force the UK into their idiotic AI regulations. The previous government had the wherewithal to reject it, I'm worried that Labour will trade it away for something trivial like fishing.
    No, the EU wants all the fishing rights AS WELL

    Meanwhile, welcome back to @Dura_Ace - only a teetotaller could happily survive several months in Saudi, bravo
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Pro_Rata said:

    As we're on EV's, what do people think on Kia's ? My wife wants me to buy one, and some of the most recent ones don't look too bad, either.

    I like a reasonably stylish and reliable car, but nothing too flash.

    Aesthetically, I like the bigger Kia EV6 far better than its Hyundai platform share, which looks to me like as if it is the first car in decades to be hand aligned by 1970s panel beaters.

    I think they have a decent reputation now, but that's as far as my insight goes.
    Thanks, yes, it was the EV6, that caught my eye, aesthetically, as well.

    If their reputation for reliability is established now, too, even better, although it does look a bit too pricey to buy new, rather than second-hand.
    Used EV6 is a good buy, still well under warranty and with significant depreciation over a new one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Sandpit said:

    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    Meanwhile a record number of driving tests are now done in automatic cars.
    Although I have a manual licence, I haven't driven a manual in over fifteen years. Automatics work well enough for me (and allow me still to drive if my ankle ever goes again...)

    Even my dad now says buying a manual is pointless for most drivers. And he was *very* automatic-sceptical for anything that weighed less then five tons...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited December 6
    mwadams said:

    Finally SKS takes the gloves off, finally he raises his pitch, finally he presses the reality button

    He did this in his better moments of the GE campaign. Unleashes his anger and pent up contempt for 14 years of Tory mismanagement.

    Small steps but the "don't expect to see better services by Christmas".... "Don't tell us you have 92% green belt" type messages are Clear and firm

    Judge us in 5 years is former still.

    Only a complete fuckwit expects immediate change, but sadly this is politics and it's full of fuckwits on all sides.

    The National Renewal mantra WILL stick and become increasingly powerful WHEN the greenshoots become apparent and people see for themselves and ignore the rabid media.

    Once that happens and I suggest by 2027 watch thecTSUNAMI engulf the haters and rabid agitators and the populous Flood back to Labour and hope winning over division.

    That feels like it needs the standard printed by/promoted by/on behalf of disclaimer at the bottom.
    It reminds me of this

    https://media1.tenor.com/m/ANDkFS4NMWMAAAAd/animal-house-kevin-bacon.gif
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    You're not wrong and, quite frankly, they have been looking at this for many a year.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 6

    Sandpit said:

    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    Meanwhile a record number of driving tests are now done in automatic cars.
    Although I have a manual licence, I haven't driven a manual in over fifteen years. Automatics work well enough for me (and allow me still to drive if my ankle ever goes again...)

    Even my dad now says buying a manual is pointless for most drivers. And he was *very* automatic-sceptical for anything that weighed less then five tons...
    I’ve not owned a manual for more than a decade - but the occasional opportunity to test drive something fun, or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk, is absolutely worth it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    That all makes sense as an engineering/manufacturing strategy - the main complaints were aimed at the terrible Woke rebrand, which managed to look dated and very 2017. Not radical more retardataire, not daring but dribbling. If they are pitching their sales at 40-something academics already pining for the heady days of Black Lives Matter it has logic. But they’re not so it doesn’t
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    I don't know a lot about cars, but I know a fair bit about advertising, and 'haute couture' that was not. It was a gammon's idea of cutting edge haute couture, hence several of the breed expressing a favourable opinion of the advertisement and the concept.
    "Several of the breed" may have expressed a favourable opinion because they were looking at it sensibly, rather than just pathetically over-reacting. ;)
    Perhaps.

    Was it you who some time ago was expressing support for an infrastructure scheme based on some sort of channel/ditch thing in (maybe) Norfolk, for flood protection?? I am sorry that's all I can remember about the conversation, but I want to remember what was said and that is very little to go on for a search.
    Urrm, I can't remember that. I have mentioned the trial banks (1) in the Wash (and I've walked to one...), and there are 'recent' drainage rivers in the area (2). But I can't think of any significant proposed ones.

    (1): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Trial_Bank
    (2): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-off_Channel
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    Meanwhile a record number of driving tests are now done in automatic cars.
    Although I have a manual licence, I haven't driven a manual in over fifteen years. Automatics work well enough for me (and allow me still to drive if my ankle ever goes again...)

    Even my dad now says buying a manual is pointless for most drivers. And he was *very* automatic-sceptical for anything that weighed less then five tons...
    I’ve not owned a manual for more than a decade - but the occasional opportunity to test drive something fun, or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk, is still worth it.
    or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk

    Lol can anyone else in your part of the world drive a manual ?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,944
    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    What's a clutch?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    You'll enjoy the 1950s stringback gloves vibe. Your insights were particularly missed.
    You can see what Jaguar are trying to do because it's the only thing they can do.

    Their previously strategy of fighting the 3/5/7 Series (and their Merc/Audi equivalents) with the XE/XF/XJ was a complete and utter failure with sales at about 5% of where they needed to be as contenders. Also F-Type vs 911/AMG GT was a joke. The range wasn't big enough to get economies of scale, the products were not good/not terrible and the brand just wasn't strong enough. They could have partially fixed the latter with some, ideally winning, motorsports activity but, as usual, there wasn't enough money.

    They can't win in large saloons because nobody buys them and there is a lot of very good competition for what few sales there are. They can't become an SUV company because that just cannabilises LR as both brands are targeting the same dyspeptic customers. If they want to stay in the ICE busniness they need a new range of hybrid powertrains but, oh look there's no money, so what are we left with? Jaguar goes electric and tries to go upmarket to fight Bentley.

    There is no point in them trying to appeal to their 'traditional' buyers because those people, literally in most cases, don't exist any longer. Hence trying to retarget it as a luxury, haute-couture brand. I don't know if it'll work because the production car will inevitably disappoint in some regard but at least it's a strategy with some basis in reality.
    I tried suggesting mildly that Jag were looking forward to a time when the sheepskin coat Jag clientele was no more, but encountered a modicum of disagreement from those who seemingly look back to the days c. 1960 when their pride and joy was an Airfix kit of an E Type.
    I don't know a lot about cars, but I know a fair bit about advertising, and 'haute couture' that was not. It was a gammon's idea of cutting edge haute couture, hence several of the breed expressing a favourable opinion of the advertisement and the concept.
    "Several of the breed" may have expressed a favourable opinion because they were looking at it sensibly, rather than just pathetically over-reacting. ;)
    I think there has been more sneering and positioning about supposed reactions to the car than actual reactions to the car.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 211
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Even at current prices...

    Electric cars make up one in four sold in November
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz7j1yz1po

    What's a "massive discount", as in "Manufacturers gave "massive" discounts worth around £4bn on electric vehicles (EVs), the SMMT said."?

    (Looking on CarWow for electrics, I'm seeing discounts from around 5% to 16-17% with a small number of more generous outliers such as MGs at 20%+.

    On the benchmark of wanting the discount to cover 12-18 months depreciation, that's sort of OK for some if there is extra range or similar, but nice second hand vehicles may be a better option).
    Almost no-one has yet realised that the market for second-hand EVs is about as big as the market for second-hand mobile phones, and this will quickly feed into the lease prices for new EVs.
    "Almost no-one has yet realised"

    What a load of nonsense.

    3 year old electric cars are now cheaper than the equivalent petrol and diesel models.
    Supply > Demand
    This is zero surprise to anyone.

    It's also great news as it puts used EV into a price bracket that many people buy at.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    Meanwhile a record number of driving tests are now done in automatic cars.
    Although I have a manual licence, I haven't driven a manual in over fifteen years. Automatics work well enough for me (and allow me still to drive if my ankle ever goes again...)

    Even my dad now says buying a manual is pointless for most drivers. And he was *very* automatic-sceptical for anything that weighed less then five tons...
    I’ve not owned a manual for more than a decade - but the occasional opportunity to test drive something fun, or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk, is still worth it.
    or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk

    Lol can anyone else in your part of the world drive a manual ?
    The fewer that can, the cheaper the manual Porsches get over here! *dreamcar*
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    What's a clutch?
    I've done it sometimes, but I can't for the life of me remember why.

    It may have been learning in an Austin Maxi (syncro but stick-in-a-bucket-of-bricks gear change), and a Simca Van (which had very weak syncromesh).

    Now I'm on one of the posh VW autos which will cost about £4-5k to replace should it go pop, and asking for manuals on courtesy cars to keep the hand in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Father Lenin's "State and Revolution"...

    I have tried to read it (it's on the tablet) but it's a very hard read. Conversely, Kaczynski's "Industrial Society and its Future" is an utter banger: very readable.
    "Fathers" don't usually kill a significant proportion of their children.

    Though there have been some autocrats who were also dads.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    mwadams said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see Rivian have finally knocked Jeep off their throne of the least reliable new car you can buy.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

    I haven't had time to read the pb.com gammonerati's reaction to the Jaguar shit yet but I am expecting some spectacularly hot and wrong takes.

    When I worked at JLR, over a decade ago, they were saying the same thing about trying to get away from the perception of the brand being middle aged, middle class, men in flat caps and string backed gloves driving their cars around rural Britain on a Sunday.

    The X760 and X761 were supposed to move them away from that.

    However they brand it they are turd polishing and stuck with the legacy of when they were basically rebadged Fords.
    String-backed driving gloves? Time to enjoy this 1963 film of the Institute of Advanced Motoring showing how to overtake in a Jaguar. Flash, flash, beep, beep, V-signs, and a politics joke for relevance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq1caGu0Hs&t=467s
    That's really interesting - thanks.

    Good road positioning to the IAM guides, but driving to the limit not the conditions, and a bit of a Clarkson in his attitudes to others. He's a bit keen on driving up exhaust pipes.

    I wonder what the IAM would say now?

    I'm not sure why he is double-declutching (12:48) in a car which I think had syncromesh. But perhaps Jag gearboxes were different in 1963.
    I have rellies who were double declutching into the 1980s because of the muscle memory.
    Meanwhile a record number of driving tests are now done in automatic cars.
    Although I have a manual licence, I haven't driven a manual in over fifteen years. Automatics work well enough for me (and allow me still to drive if my ankle ever goes again...)

    Even my dad now says buying a manual is pointless for most drivers. And he was *very* automatic-sceptical for anything that weighed less then five tons...
    I’ve not owned a manual for more than a decade - but the occasional opportunity to test drive something fun, or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk, is still worth it.
    or to bypass the line at a holiday car rental desk

    Lol can anyone else in your part of the world drive a manual ?
    Isn't an automatic something Americans drive, on the wrong side of the road. Could an expert tell me what they are?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    Finally SKS takes the gloves off, finally he raises his pitch, finally he presses the reality button

    He did this in his better moments of the GE campaign. Unleashes his anger and pent up contempt for 14 years of Tory mismanagement.

    Small steps but the "don't expect to see better services by Christmas".... "Don't tell us you have 92% green belt" type messages are Clear and firm

    Judge us in 5 years is former still.

    Only a complete fuckwit expects immediate change, but sadly this is politics and it's full of fuckwits on all sides.

    The National Renewal mantra WILL stick and become increasingly powerful WHEN the greenshoots become apparent and people see for themselves and ignore the rabid media.

    Once that happens and I suggest by 2027 watch thecTSUNAMI engulf the haters and rabid agitators and the populous Flood back to Labour and hope winning over division.

    Just catching up; I hope you're right.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    Well yes, of course it should be. I'd like as much help as possible to be given to kids whose parents might be struggling with this though before they get to school as I'd rather time be spent teaching sums and writing rather than changing nappies or very basic socialisation that should have been mastered at nursery age. Although the effect is less severe for the 'ready for school' kids, having kids not ready for school at school isn't going to help anyone's education.
    So yes Bridget seeing what she can do about this is a good idea.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394
    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Labour minister that is impressing me the most is probably Bridget Philipson, the amount of 4 and 5 yr olds not ready for school is appalling and was on my mind with my daughter heading to school the September after next.
    Hopefully she can do something about it all.

    Maybe Streeting can improve the NHS too, probably something Labour needs to do in all honesty.

    Is it entirely in vain to suggest that getting 4 year olds ready to start school is a matter for parents?

    As there is loads more nursery provision for pre school than there once was, this combined with parents doing their job of bringing up children seems to me the only answer. What on earth is an education minister supposed to do? Take them all into care? Mary Poppins for every home?
    Schools are slowly turning into the National Babysitting Service so mum can get back to work, with breakfast clubs and after-school clubs tacked onto each end of the day. Babysitting and too often nappy-changing!

    The babysitting service means there is no chance of following our Scandinavian friends and starting school at 6 or 7 years old. (6 or 7 o'clock maybe!)
This discussion has been closed.