Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Eclipsing Badenoch. Soon Farage could be the favourite to be the next PM – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited December 17 in General
imageEclipsing Badenoch. Soon Farage could be the favourite to be the next PM – politicalbetting.com

It is quite something that a party with a mere five MPs and their leader soon could be favourite to be the next Prime Minister.

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826
    First
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,142
    Second
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826
    Cricket highlights are dreadful. Editing is appalling.. where is the NZ innings....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,142
    edited December 6
    Both Farage and Badenoch are screaming lays for next PM, as is that dodgy Johnson bloke.

    Lay the three of them and you can get pleasantly green on everyone else
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    "could" doing some heavy lifting in the header there.

    My aunt COULD grow a pair of balls and become my uncle.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,423
    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    "could" doing some heavy lifting in the header there.

    My aunt COULD grow a pair of balls and become my uncle.

    Isnt that just oldfashioned ? She would be better going to the NHS and having an op.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940
    edited December 6
    FPT, sorta relevant given the topic:

    Strategically, I think it makes sense for Labour to not put a figure on immigration. Because they’ve seen what happened to the last government.

    But my question for PB is: what would be an acceptable level of immigration every year that the public would be happy with?

    I think the polling on this is quite interesting, from YouGov:
    • From spring 2021 - Conservatives no longer trusted on immigration
    • From summer 2022 - crossover, with immigration seen as more bad than good
    • July 2024 - significant, positive change in whether people think immigration is being handled well ("badly" has fallen from 86% to 67%)
    • Concerns about immigration are lower than they were before Brexit, but now approaching that level
    • The rising concerns are about pressure on housing and public services, as well as terrorism. Concerns about crime and wages are much lower.
    • Significant majority in favour of current levels of asylum seekers (or think we should welcome even more)
    • Even higher support for people coming here to work in the NHS
    A lot of this is quite contradictory. People tend to be quite keen about the idea of providing a safe haven and having immigrants look after them in their care homes and hospitals, but nevertheless have concerns about the pressure they put on services. Very difficult to navigate for any political party, particularly when the welfare of pensioners really depends on immigration.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    Who the Hell is backing Farage for next PM?

    If it happens at the next election, it’s either going to be Badenoch or someone currently in the Cabinet, and is almost certainly at least four years away in May 2029. If Starmer holds on it could be nine years away, and who locks up cash for that long?

    Farage is aged 60, and leads a party of 5 (FIVE) MPs.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,413
    I wish to complain to the management. I have just discovered that there was a snap general election in Iceland, won by the Social Democrats, and no-one here even mentioned it. What is PB coming to???
  • "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    This is an inauspicious start to my weekend break.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,894

    I wish to complain to the management. I have just discovered that there was a snap general election in Iceland, won by the Social Democrats, and no-one here even mentioned it. What is PB coming to???

    The boycott of Iceland can be put down to this I think

    https://www.iceland.co.uk/p/iceland-stone-baked-ham-and-pineapple-pizza-420g/90268.html
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,423

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    This is an inauspicious start to my weekend break.
    When this sort of thing happens at the moment, my immediate thought is "Hacking!" and then "Russia!"

    But it's probably not. Though I'm intrigued at such a critical system having what appears might be a single point of failure.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,110
    I think Badenoch is a lay for next PM.

    3 reasons:

    1) she may well not be LOTO by 2029
    2) if she survives that long it is quite likely that she won't be in charge of the largest party after the GE.
    3) it's increasingly likely that Labour will change PM before the next election.

    I think Farage is far too short too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    Dura_Ace said:

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, I have returned.

    My Arabic immersion semester at the University of Jeddah was excellent. I was going to go to Cairo University for the foreign semester during my Masters but I think I will come back to the Bride of the Red Sea instead.

    I can really see the appeal of just surrendering to the mysticism of the Moyen-Orient and disappearing into it like Burton, Philby Snr, Richard Keys and Andy Grey. If I didn't have commitments, I'd like to have a house in Al Balad and do nothing but read the Glorious Quran all day. After I had claimed hafiz status I would learn Persian and immerse myself in the complete works of Rumi. Finally, on my 60th birthday, like the most noted miniaturists of the Sublime Porte, I would blind myself with long iron needle tipped with a peacock feather as my eyes would no longer be capable of perceiving the world as Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) made it.


    I met a lot of young Saudi undergraduates and noted that the radical pan-Arab socialism of Nasser, Afleq and al-Bitar is now moribund. To the extent that they had an ideology it was varying shades of consumerist nihilism and Salafist fundamentalism. Thank Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) who made the skies and the earth, they have zero interest in and no small contempt for pluralist liberal democracy.

    I did radio interview in MSA on life as a mature foreign student in Jeddah and was sweating like Therese Coffey on a Parkrun but got through it. As a result, I was asked to write a newspaper article on the same theme. Sensing a payday, I penned a few anodyne lines on student life followed by a polemic demanding an immediate and violent end to the State of Israel. This I submitted, with a frankly outrageous invoice that was paid promptly and without quibble. Journalism is fucking bollocks and anyone can do it.

    I hope you all lumped on Jorge Martin to win the MotoGP WC at 1.8 when I told you back in June he would win it. I won a substantial four figure sum then the c*nts at .com closed my account.

    مرحبا بك مرة أخرى، من الجيد رؤيتك قضيت وقتا ممتعا في الجزيرة العربية
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    edited December 6
    Dura_Ace said:

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, I have returned.

    My Arabic immersion semester at the University of Jeddah was excellent. I was going to go to Cairo University for the foreign semester during my Masters but I think I will come back to the Bride of the Red Sea instead.

    I can really see the appeal of just surrendering to the mysticism of the Moyen-Orient and disappearing into it like Burton, Philby Snr, Richard Keys and Andy Grey. If I didn't have commitments, I'd like to have a house in Al Balad and do nothing but read the Glorious Quran all day. After I had claimed hafiz status I would learn Persian and immerse myself in the complete works of Rumi. Finally, on my 60th birthday, like the most noted miniaturists of the Sublime Porte, I would blind myself with long iron needle tipped with a peacock feather as my eyes would no longer be capable of perceiving the world as Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) made it.


    I met a lot of young Saudi undergraduates and noted that the radical pan-Arab socialism of Nasser, Afleq and al-Bitar is now moribund. To the extent that they had an ideology it was varying shades of consumerist nihilism and Salafist fundamentalism. Thank Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) who made the skies and the earth, they have zero interest in and no small contempt for pluralist liberal democracy.

    I did radio interview in MSA on life as a mature foreign student in Jeddah and was sweating like Therese Coffey on a Parkrun but got through it. As a result, I was asked to write a newspaper article on the same theme. Sensing a payday, I penned a few anodyne lines on student life followed by a polemic demanding an immediate and violent end to the State of Israel. This I submitted, with a frankly outrageous invoice that was paid promptly and without quibble. Journalism is fucking bollocks and anyone can do it.

    I hope you all lumped on Jorge Martin to win the MotoGP WC at 1.8 when I told you back in June he would win it. I won a substantial four figure sum then the c*nts at .com closed my account.

    Missed you yesterday.
    Can you advise on the practicality of learning to fly a Mil-8 from YouTube videos ?

    Regarding the journalism bit, you have, TBF, studied at the feet of a master of the bollocks genre, thank to PB.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,760
    On topic... the tories' dumpy diversity hire is on a tough wicket. She's just not quite committed enough to the right wing populist toss that is needed to see off the Fukkers. See how she reverted to the woke phraseology of 'mansplaining' when shit didn't go her way. She just can't fully commit to the kayfabe. Which is understandable as, at heart, she is a WEF adjacant globalist.

    The tories would have been better off with Jenners who, while being an amoral psychopath, is a lot better at faking enthusiasm for the sort of empirically incorrect opinions to which Carlsberg swillers hew.
  • "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,441
    Sandpit said:

    Who the Hell is backing Farage for next PM?

    If it happens at the next election, it’s either going to be Badenoch or someone currently in the Cabinet, and is almost certainly at least four years away in May 2029. If Starmer holds on it could be nine years away, and who locks up cash for that long?

    Farage is aged 60, and leads a party of 5 (FIVE) MPs.

    Similar people to those who back England at every World Cup/Euro tournament, I suspect.

    And for much the same reason- an expression of hope and support.

    But given Farage's age- what does Reform's succession plan look like?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
    If it's a cyber attack, Friday is not a smart time to do it. Wednesday or Thursday would be better, or save it for the last Saturday before Christmas.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 6

    I wish to complain to the management. I have just discovered that there was a snap general election in Iceland, won by the Social Democrats, and no-one here even mentioned it. What is PB coming to???

    You should ask for a refund and compensation....
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    This is an inauspicious start to my weekend break.
    Any user of TPE into Newcastle is unlikely to notice any difference. It is always delayed anyway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
    I’m more of a planes guy than a trains guy, but “Nationwide Fault” is always a worrying phrase.

    Take your pick from:
    1. Cyberattack.
    2. Messed-up software upgrade.
    3. Bug in a system, or an overflow similar to Y2K.
    4. Something stupid like a power cut somewhere critical, which no-one realised was critical until it failed.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393
    Eabhal said:

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
    If it's a cyber attack, Friday is not a smart time to do it. Wednesday or Thursday would be better, or save it for the last Saturday before Christmas.
    We know from PB's regular visitors that Russians only work weekends.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    India in even more trouble than England. 141/8.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    edited December 6

    Sandpit said:

    Who the Hell is backing Farage for next PM?

    If it happens at the next election, it’s either going to be Badenoch or someone currently in the Cabinet, and is almost certainly at least four years away in May 2029. If Starmer holds on it could be nine years away, and who locks up cash for that long?

    Farage is aged 60, and leads a party of 5 (FIVE) MPs.

    Similar people to those who back England at every World Cup/Euro tournament, I suspect.

    And for much the same reason- an expression of hope and support.

    But given Farage's age- what does Reform's succession plan look like?
    While they have five MPs, there's hardly a need for one.

    Given the recent succession of unlikely grifters and buffoons that electorates around the world have chosen to elevate, I wouldn't bet my house against Farage, or on the good sense of the UK electorate.

    Though a lay on Betfair exchange might be a decent trading belt.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393
    Gerald Ford on why he pardoned Nixon (one-minute video)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/v99SkCbcRgY

    (hat-tip YouTube's relevance algorithm)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826
    Sandpit said:

    India in even more trouble than England. 141/8.

    England are not in trouble....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Dura_Ace said:

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, I have returned.

    My Arabic immersion semester at the University of Jeddah was excellent. I was going to go to Cairo University for the foreign semester during my Masters but I think I will come back to the Bride of the Red Sea instead.

    I can really see the appeal of just surrendering to the mysticism of the Moyen-Orient and disappearing into it like Burton, Philby Snr, Richard Keys and Andy Grey. If I didn't have commitments, I'd like to have a house in Al Balad and do nothing but read the Glorious Quran all day. After I had claimed hafiz status I would learn Persian and immerse myself in the complete works of Rumi. Finally, on my 60th birthday, like the most noted miniaturists of the Sublime Porte, I would blind myself with long iron needle tipped with a peacock feather as my eyes would no longer be capable of perceiving the world as Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) made it.


    I met a lot of young Saudi undergraduates and noted that the radical pan-Arab socialism of Nasser, Afleq and al-Bitar is now moribund. To the extent that they had an ideology it was varying shades of consumerist nihilism and Salafist fundamentalism. Thank Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) who made the skies and the earth, they have zero interest in and no small contempt for pluralist liberal democracy.

    I did radio interview in MSA on life as a mature foreign student in Jeddah and was sweating like Therese Coffey on a Parkrun but got through it. As a result, I was asked to write a newspaper article on the same theme. Sensing a payday, I penned a few anodyne lines on student life followed by a polemic demanding an immediate and violent end to the State of Israel. This I submitted, with a frankly outrageous invoice that was paid promptly and without quibble. Journalism is fucking bollocks and anyone can do it.

    I hope you all lumped on Jorge Martin to win the MotoGP WC at 1.8 when I told you back in June he would win it. I won a substantial four figure sum then the c*nts at .com closed my account.

    Not weeks in chokey for nicking another tuk-tuk then? We did wonder...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393
    Foxy said:

    I think Badenoch is a lay for next PM.

    3 reasons:

    1) she may well not be LOTO by 2029
    2) if she survives that long it is quite likely that she won't be in charge of the largest party after the GE.
    3) it's increasingly likely that Labour will change PM before the next election.

    I think Farage is far too short too.

    (3) for me too. Having warned against amateur neurologists diagnosing early-onset marble lossage, I'm now veering towards becoming one. Trouble is, which Labour minister will succeed Starmer? Ed Miliband is not even quoted.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 270
    If you'd watched Alastair Campbell eat up and spit out Farage on QT last night you'd want 100/1 on Farage.

    He'll scuttle off to the US by early 2027 for a final pay day. The idea of this Work shy spiv wanting to be PM let alone doing it is risible.

    Badenoch has even less of a chance a Party that ditches Leaders like dirty dishwater I doubt she'll see 2026 out if even 2025.

    So let's consider Labour

    Firstly it's a lot harder for a Labour leader to be ousted. Secondly no one in their right mind would challenge him before the big devolved election cycle in 2026.Thirdly by the Spring of 2027, half way of the 5 year cycle ALL of Labours measures and net migration could well all be travelling in their direction.

    Now Starmer, his strength is his management of big jobs, removing the blocks, building more effective processes and improving delivery. He is an Administrator first, politician second.

    Give him 30 months and I believe he will have seen off Badenoch and Farage.

    The biggest danger I see to Starmer is health. He's in his early 60s. He has lots of miles on his body clock from 4 decades of proper hard graft jobs, the polar opposite of lazy Nigel.

    He may decide to move over, but even then when he decides and his successor is primed.

    That successor I belive will be Jones, Reynolds or Kyle or if a female leader Phillipson or E Reeves

    Thats where my money will go if the market names them

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    edited December 6
    Eabhal said:

    FPT, sorta relevant given the topic:


    Strategically, I think it makes sense for Labour to not put a figure on immigration. Because they’ve seen what happened to the last government.

    But my question for PB is: what would be an acceptable level of immigration every year that the public would be happy with?

    I think the polling on this is quite interesting, from YouGov:
    • From spring 2021 - Conservatives no longer trusted on immigration
    • From summer 2022 - crossover, with immigration seen as more bad than good
    • July 2024 - significant, positive change in whether people think immigration is being handled well ("badly" has fallen from 86% to 67%)
    • Concerns about immigration are lower than they were before Brexit, but now approaching that level
    • The rising concerns are about pressure on housing and public services, as well as terrorism. Concerns about crime and wages are much lower.
    • Significant majority in favour of current levels of asylum seekers (or think we should welcome even more)
    • Even higher support for people coming here to work in the NHS
    A lot of this is quite contradictory. People tend to be quite keen about the idea of providing a safe haven and having immigrants look after them in their care homes and hospitals, but nevertheless have concerns about the pressure they put on services. Very difficult to navigate for any political party, particularly when the welfare of pensioners really depends on immigration.
    It's not surprising it's "very difficult to navigate for any political party".

    Given our history since the war, who the hell in their right mind would trust either political party on immigration? They have both systematically and repeatedly lied to voters, simultaneously treating them as idiots and as potentially dangerous closet Nazis, first ignoring them, then patronisingly downplaying their concerns, then dismissing them, then branding anyone who raised the issue a racist bigot, then, in the last couple of decades pretending they sympathised while letting in staggering numbers.

    All the while dumping most immigrants in poor areas where they themselves would never live, displacing the existing working class population without any consultation whatsoever.

    All the deceit and patronising hasn't even worked, as voters could see large parts of urban Britain transformed before their eyes.

    It's an absolutely disgraceful record, exceeding in deceitfulness any other issue, which is saying quite a lot, and might well have ended a more fragile democracy than ours.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984

    I wish to complain to the management. I have just discovered that there was a snap general election in Iceland, won by the Social Democrats, and no-one here even mentioned it. What is PB coming to???

    Be that as it may but yet another example of the pattern of incumbent Governments taking a beating. The coalition of Independence, Progressive and Left/Green Movement which had 37 of the 63 seats in the previous Althing lost half their seats with the Left/Greens losing all their seats.

    It seems as though the Social Democrats, who topped the poll for the first time since 2009, the Liberal Reform Party and the People’s Party will form a new coalition with 36 seats. The Centre-right Independence Party will be in the rare situation of being out of Government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Good news for democracy in S Korea.
    A two thirds majority for impeachment looks much more likely now.

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=387859
    Ruling People Power Party (PPP) leader Han Dong-hoon stressed Friday the urgent need to swiftly suspend President Yoon Suk Yeol's powers and duties in order to protect Korea and its people, virtually supporting impeachment of the president following Yoon's bungled martial law declaration.

    The shift in stance by Han, who initially said until the previous day that his party would make efforts to prevent impeachment, has significantly increased the likelihood of the impeachment motion passing at the National Assembly's plenary session on Saturday...
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 270
    Eabhal said:

    FPT, sorta relevant given the topic:


    Strategically, I think it makes sense for Labour to not put a figure on immigration. Because they’ve seen what happened to the last government.

    But my question for PB is: what would be an acceptable level of immigration every year that the public would be happy with?

    I think the polling on this is quite interesting, from YouGov:
    • From spring 2021 - Conservatives no longer trusted on immigration
    • From summer 2022 - crossover, with immigration seen as more bad than good
    • July 2024 - significant, positive change in whether people think immigration is being handled well ("badly" has fallen from 86% to 67%)
    • Concerns about immigration are lower than they were before Brexit, but now approaching that level
    • The rising concerns are about pressure on housing and public services, as well as terrorism. Concerns about crime and wages are much lower.
    • Significant majority in favour of current levels of asylum seekers (or think we should welcome even more)
    • Even higher support for people coming here to work in the NHS
    A lot of this is quite contradictory. People tend to be quite keen about the idea of providing a safe haven and having immigrants look after them in their care homes and hospitals, but nevertheless have concerns about the pressure they put on services. Very difficult to navigate for any political party, particularly when the welfare of pensioners really depends on immigration.
    Net inward migration 300k...60% roughly lower than the 720k now

    Illegal boat arrivals.. 15k again more than halved

    100 k net a year measurable off the backlog at end of 25.

    Achieve those by 2027 and maintain and on immigration Labour are home and hosed
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393
    edited December 6
    Dura_Ace said:

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, I have returned.

    My Arabic immersion semester at the University of Jeddah was excellent. I was going to go to Cairo University for the foreign semester during my Masters but I think I will come back to the Bride of the Red Sea instead.

    I can really see the appeal of just surrendering to the mysticism of the Moyen-Orient and disappearing into it like Burton, Philby Snr, Richard Keys and Andy Grey. If I didn't have commitments, I'd like to have a house in Al Balad and do nothing but read the Glorious Quran all day. After I had claimed hafiz status I would learn Persian and immerse myself in the complete works of Rumi. Finally, on my 60th birthday, like the most noted miniaturists of the Sublime Porte, I would blind myself with long iron needle tipped with a peacock feather as my eyes would no longer be capable of perceiving the world as Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) made it.


    I met a lot of young Saudi undergraduates and noted that the radical pan-Arab socialism of Nasser, Afleq and al-Bitar is now moribund. To the extent that they had an ideology it was varying shades of consumerist nihilism and Salafist fundamentalism. Thank Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) who made the skies and the earth, they have zero interest in and no small contempt for pluralist liberal democracy.

    I did radio interview in MSA on life as a mature foreign student in Jeddah and was sweating like Therese Coffey on a Parkrun but got through it. As a result, I was asked to write a newspaper article on the same theme. Sensing a payday, I penned a few anodyne lines on student life followed by a polemic demanding an immediate and violent end to the State of Israel. This I submitted, with a frankly outrageous invoice that was paid promptly and without quibble. Journalism is fucking bollocks and anyone can do it.

    I hope you all lumped on Jorge Martin to win the MotoGP WC at 1.8 when I told you back in June he would win it. I won a substantial four figure sum then the c*nts at .com closed my account.

    Here is everything you missed.

    Gregg Wallace has shot his career in both feet. You should support Chiara, the English-accented Italian chef who lived as a child in Marrakesh, Morocco, somewhere near Saudi, at least language-wise, in the finals of Masterchef: the Professionals next week.

    ETA Chiara's chocolate, pig's blood and bacon dessert might be problematic for some religions and anyone who can read a menu.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,413
    stodge said:

    I wish to complain to the management. I have just discovered that there was a snap general election in Iceland, won by the Social Democrats, and no-one here even mentioned it. What is PB coming to???

    Be that as it may but yet another example of the pattern of incumbent Governments taking a beating. The coalition of Independence, Progressive and Left/Green Movement which had 37 of the 63 seats in the previous Althing lost half their seats with the Left/Greens losing all their seats.

    It seems as though the Social Democrats, who topped the poll for the first time since 2009, the Liberal Reform Party and the People’s Party will form a new coalition with 36 seats. The Centre-right Independence Party will be in the rare situation of being out of Government.
    Yes, and SD and Liberal Reform are both pro-EU, so could we see Iceland move towards joining?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668
    Nigelb said:

    Good news for democracy in S Korea.
    A two thirds majority for impeachment looks much more likely now.

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=387859
    Ruling People Power Party (PPP) leader Han Dong-hoon stressed Friday the urgent need to swiftly suspend President Yoon Suk Yeol's powers and duties in order to protect Korea and its people, virtually supporting impeachment of the president following Yoon's bungled martial law declaration.

    The shift in stance by Han, who initially said until the previous day that his party would make efforts to prevent impeachment, has significantly increased the likelihood of the impeachment motion passing at the National Assembly's plenary session on Saturday...

    I wonder if that is the difference between initial tribal political reaction and "now I've had the intelligence briefings"
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,110
    Would that Conservatives ever prop up a Reform party that has the most seats to allow Farage to become PM?

    It they did, it may well be the end of their party as it would be hard to differentiate themselves as minority coalition (or confidence and supply) partners.

    There is a 0% chance of the Lib Dems or Labour giving confidence to a Reform government, so it would be a big call for the Conservatives in thay eventuality.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I think they are all too short - though perhaps trading value in Streeting and Rayner. I think Hybrid Air vehicles on the previous thread may be a better investment.

    Are there any potential alternatives to Rayner from the 'working class' (?) side of the party. I cannot find a better word.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    I wonder where Yoon got this bright idea from ?

    Conspiracy theories about voter fraud suggested as one reason behind martial law decision
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=387854
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,700

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
    Wrong type of communications fault?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393
    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Haven't seen this posted yet:

    Cholsey (South Oxfordshire) Council By-Election Result:

    🔶 LDM: 62.2% (+16.1)
    🌳 CON: 23.7% (+0.9)
    🔴 SDP: 7.6% (+2.3)
    🌹 LAB: 4.7% (New)
    🙋 IND: 1.8% (New)

    No IND (-25.7) as previous.

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864824896640922004
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,441
    Ratters said:

    Would that Conservatives ever prop up a Reform party that has the most seats to allow Farage to become PM?

    It they did, it may well be the end of their party as it would be hard to differentiate themselves as minority coalition (or confidence and supply) partners.

    There is a 0% chance of the Lib Dems or Labour giving confidence to a Reform government, so it would be a big call for the Conservatives in thay eventuality.

    Someone needs to remind the Conservative party as a whole of that old anecdote about how the ones on the other side are merely the opposition. The enemy are the other guys notionally on your side.

    (But if the problem is that railing against globetrotting elites is the challenge, it's not obvious that Kemi B is the solution.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder where Yoon got this bright idea from ?

    Conspiracy theories about voter fraud suggested as one reason behind martial law decision
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=387854

    I want a First Minister of Scotland called Yoon, for the Lols.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    That is precisely where the UK has pitched itself tbf and it's working. European devs are coming to the UK because a senior gets £90-120k industry dependent vs €60-70k in Europe.

    We've got the highest concentration of talent and emerging tech companies on Europe, I think well over 50% share of investment (probably close to 90% over the last 6 months) in Europe for AI/ML over the last year.

    It's one of the reasons the EU keeps trying to force the UK into their idiotic AI regulations. The previous government had the wherewithal to reject it, I'm worried that Labour will trade it away for something trivial like fishing.
    Yes the problem is the governmental focus.

    Sunak, for all his other faults, could see this very clearly, and the worry is that the new government doesn’t.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Ratters said:

    Would that Conservatives ever prop up a Reform party that has the most seats to allow Farage to become PM?

    It they did, it may well be the end of their party as it would be hard to differentiate themselves as minority coalition (or confidence and supply) partners.

    There is a 0% chance of the Lib Dems or Labour giving confidence to a Reform government, so it would be a big call for the Conservatives in thay eventuality.

    Depends on the electoral maths.

    If the vagaries of FPTP awarded Reform a lot more seats than the Tory rump, it's quite possible that the right of the party just decide to join them.
    Unpalatable, probably - but the chance of future preferment would surely be preferable to extinction, for the average Tory pol ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956


    Now Starmer, his strength is his management of big jobs

    I am sure he's produced many.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    I wonder where Yoon got this bright idea from ?

    Conspiracy theories about voter fraud suggested as one reason behind martial law decision
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=387854

    I want a First Minister of Scotland called Yoon, for the Lols.
    윤 might equally be transcribed as Yun.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,423
    So if people don't mind me talking even more sh*t than usual:

    The water companies get a lot of (justifiable) bad press about sewage releases, often done at times of heavy rain. But the scale of the problem they have to tackle is quite amazing.

    In late November, London suffered 24 hours of heavy rain. Fortunately, the new Tideway tunnel, though incomplete, has started operation. In those 24 hours, it intercepted 850,000 tonnes of rain/sewage.

    850,000 tonnes.

    And even then, it was only half full.

    That figure is mind-bogglingly massive.

    https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/850000t-of-sewage-captured-by-thames-tideway-network-during-24-hour-storm-event-04-12-2024/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    "Interesting" email this morning.

    An investment promoter from Hybrid Air Vehicles ie Airships, suggesting a possible return of 20x by 2030.

    The sort of numbers one hope for from early lifecycle investments. But ... it's been a very long early lifecycle.

    At the start of November we revised the terms on our initial institutional round and for a limited time we’re offering qualifying investors the opportunity to participate on enhanced terms. There is now the chance to purchase shares at a price of £0.86 per share which, according to our internal modelling, could see a 20X return by 2030.

    I got one to invest in "Genius:George Best the Movie" today, on Monday it was AI GPU Servers with a 150% return.

    Do any of these ever make money or are they simply something rich people use to mitigate tax liabilities.

    I used to get lots of emails for whiskey cask investment too.
    It could be worse. Twitter is full of “Hawk Tuah Coin” stories today.

    You don’t want to ask if you don’t know already, but on the face of it a viral social media influencer and her team just walked away with millions in what was clearly a cryptocurrency scam, totally overshadowing the crypto community’s celebration of Bitcoin hitting $100,000.
    Yeah, I have been reading this too. Coffeezilla is already on the case.

    He's a class act.

    Why didn't she preserve her legacy by doing OF instead.
    Between personal appearances and her podcast revenue doesn't even need to do that. Already made millions.
    Many scammers pretend to have millions as a reason they have no need to scam, and so become actual millionaires.

    Others really are so stupendously rich it makes no sense they would scam people, yet they still do it. Baffling.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884
    Nigelb said:

    Ratters said:

    Would that Conservatives ever prop up a Reform party that has the most seats to allow Farage to become PM?

    It they did, it may well be the end of their party as it would be hard to differentiate themselves as minority coalition (or confidence and supply) partners.

    There is a 0% chance of the Lib Dems or Labour giving confidence to a Reform government, so it would be a big call for the Conservatives in thay eventuality.

    Depends on the electoral maths.

    If the vagaries of FPTP awarded Reform a lot more seats than the Tory rump, it's quite possible that the right of the party just decide to join them.
    Unpalatable, probably - but the chance of future preferment would surely be preferable to extinction, for the average Tory pol ?
    A Lib-SDP style arrangement with the Conservatives and with dual leaders before full merger looks quite likely. I suspect Farage needs the Conservative Party to become Fuhrer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,110
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I think they are all too short - though perhaps trading value in Streeting and Rayner. I think Hybrid Air vehicles on the previous thread may be a better investment.

    Are there any potential alternatives to Rayner from the 'working class' (?) side of the party. I cannot find a better word.

    I think Rayner would be the best choice for Labour.

    She has the political wiles that Starmer has not, managing the transition from Corbynism to Starmerism. She has the advantage of being Deputy Leader over other contenders.

    She is an increasingly confident performer at the despatch box. She has the wit and also the left wing passion that Starmer lacks. She isn't afraid of speaking out against the Wokefinder generals.

    Labour can win the next election from the left but not from the dour austerity of Starmer/Reeves.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,700
    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
    I’m more of a planes guy than a trains guy, but “Nationwide Fault” is always a worrying phrase.

    Take your pick from:
    1. Cyberattack.
    2. Messed-up software upgrade.
    3. Bug in a system, or an overflow similar to Y2K.
    4. Something stupid like a power cut somewhere critical, which no-one realised was critical until it failed.
    The fact that is apparently a connection issue and that it is fine once they've managed to establish a connection makes it look like (1 [they are being DDOSed in some way) or (2-and-therefore-the-first-part-of-3) to me.

    It would be a classic if it's 4.

    We used to have low-rise, wooden framed offices outside Cambridge that were built up on Madingley Hill - one of the laughably-low "high points" in the area. Two of us were working a weekend to get something done before an event, and, of course, there was a massive power-cut that hit the whole of West Cambridge and the villages, including our office.

    After a couple of hours, an electricity company van pulled up outside and the chaps got out. Turned out they were scanning the landscape with binoculars to see if they could see where the lines came down.

    They did this for an hour or so, sending people out if they spotted anything suspicious looking. But nope, there was nothing.

    Then one looked up at the electricity pole next to our building. It had one of those big distributor junction box things at the top of it, relaying power to the little complex of buildings we were in.

    It also had a massive, very dead, slightly toasted crow jammed in it.

    Turns out that was the cause of the outage.
    Shame it wasn't a raven. Would have proved the old adage 'one raven for sorrow' big time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575
    mwadams said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good news for democracy in S Korea.
    A two thirds majority for impeachment looks much more likely now.

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=387859
    Ruling People Power Party (PPP) leader Han Dong-hoon stressed Friday the urgent need to swiftly suspend President Yoon Suk Yeol's powers and duties in order to protect Korea and its people, virtually supporting impeachment of the president following Yoon's bungled martial law declaration.

    The shift in stance by Han, who initially said until the previous day that his party would make efforts to prevent impeachment, has significantly increased the likelihood of the impeachment motion passing at the National Assembly's plenary session on Saturday...

    I wonder if that is the difference between initial tribal political reaction and "now I've had the intelligence briefings"
    Good either way, tribal reaction shouldn't cover thus kind of thing.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668
    Taz said:


    Now Starmer, his strength is his management of big jobs

    I am sure he's produced many.
    That's a bit of a stretch.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,700
    mwadams said:

    Taz said:


    Now Starmer, his strength is his management of big jobs

    I am sure he's produced many.
    That's a bit of a stretch.
    Wasn't his job as DPP to make sure criminals got a bit of a stretch?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    SKS fans your boy is really popular in the West Midlands


    Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    ·
    43m
    #GE2029 projection in West Midlands (region):

    CON 23 seats (+8)
    REF 19 seats (+19)
    LAB 9 seats (-29)
    LD 1 seat (-)
    GRN 1 seat (-
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
    That hasn't led to brain drain, it led to a multi-billion pound HQ in the centre of London and hiring 100s of the best PhDs. Now has it met that yet again the US reap the ultimate benefits of any potential ground breaking AI, that's a different story.

    The real question is that without Google's money / compute, DeepMind probably would have never have been able to scale. If it had been a US company it probably would e.g. Anthropic. I have heard several UK tech entrepreneurs saying you just can't get the VC money in the UK to scale fast and vast, everybody is very risk averse. And there is also a problem with mentality of the best and the brightest wanting to take risks themselves and set up a DeepMind.
    Indeed, so the problem you end up with is the British founders selling out for £millions, while the later US investors end up making the $billions.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,441
    ydoethur said:

    mwadams said:

    Taz said:


    Now Starmer, his strength is his management of big jobs

    I am sure he's produced many.
    That's a bit of a stretch.
    Wasn't his job as DPP to make sure criminals got a bit of a stretch?
    Unfortunately, the shortage of prison places means that a bit of a stretch is all many of them get.
  • Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
    That hasn't led to brain drain, it led to a multi-billion pound HQ in the centre of London and hiring 100s of the best PhDs. Now has it met that yet again the US reap the ultimate benefits of any potential ground breaking AI, that's a different story.

    The real question is that without Google's money / compute, DeepMind probably would have never have been able to scale. If it had been a US company it probably would e.g. Anthropic. I have heard several UK tech entrepreneurs saying you just can't get the VC money in the UK to scale fast and vast, everybody is very risk averse. And there is also a problem with mentality of the best and the brightest wanting to take risks themselves and set up a DeepMind.
    It's the usual City short-termism, which, because the Tories encouraged it further, Starmer has to address or compensate for.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Elon Musk was behind mysterious pro-Trump super PAC that invoked Ruth Bader Ginsburg

    https://www.politico.com/elon-musk-trump-donations-super-pac
    Elon Musk was the sole funder of a super PAC formed in the final weeks of the election that spent millions on ads claiming Donald Trump’s position on abortion was aligned with that of the late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

    The $20.5 million that Musk put into that group, RBG PAC, accounted for just a small fraction of his total political spending this year, which included $238 million to a super PAC he started and millions more to other GOP groups...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,101
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I think they are all too short - though perhaps trading value in Streeting and Rayner. I think Hybrid Air vehicles on the previous thread may be a better investment.

    Are there any potential alternatives to Rayner from the 'working class' (?) side of the party. I cannot find a better word.

    On Hybrid.

    I'm an investor, albeit on a small scale.

    I haven't had this email so far.


  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668
    ydoethur said:

    mwadams said:

    Taz said:


    Now Starmer, his strength is his management of big jobs

    I am sure he's produced many.
    That's a bit of a stretch.
    Wasn't his job as DPP to make sure criminals got a bit of a stretch?
    Only when smuggling mobiles into prison.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 6

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
    That hasn't led to brain drain, it led to a multi-billion pound HQ in the centre of London and hiring 100s of the best PhDs. Now has it met that yet again the US reap the ultimate benefits of any potential ground breaking AI, that's a different story.

    The real question is that without Google's money / compute, DeepMind probably would have never have been able to scale. If it had been a US company it probably would e.g. Anthropic. I have heard several UK tech entrepreneurs saying you just can't get the VC money in the UK to scale fast and vast, everybody is very risk averse. And there is also a problem with mentality of the best and the brightest wanting to take risks themselves and set up a DeepMind.
    It's the usual City short-termism, which, because the Tories encouraged it further, Starmer has to address or compensate for.
    I don't think it is short-termism, its risk aversion and ambition. The whole of the economy is far too heavy tailed between micro businesses and mega corps. Its much safer to keep providing services to mega corps. Of course the budget changes have only made the incentives worse.

    Also, there is a big problem with STEM and spin-outs from universities, but that is a whole different conversation.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    Germany really is becoming the sick man of Europe.

    VW workers are going on strike for 4 hours in 9 factories over the threat of closures.

    However if people are not buying their cars then what will they have to build ?


    German industrial production unexpectedly fell in October, owing mainly to declines in energy production and in the automotive industry, the federal statistics office said on Friday.

    Production was down by 1.0% in October from the previous month, the office said.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/german-industrial-output-unexpectedly-falls-in-october/ar-AA1vnnuq?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=379165fe21944381d3f9eed745c9af24&ei=20
  • SKS fans your boy is really popular in the West Midlands


    Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    ·
    43m
    #GE2029 projection in West Midlands (region):

    CON 23 seats (+8)
    REF 19 seats (+19)
    LAB 9 seats (-29)
    LD 1 seat (-)
    GRN 1 seat (-

    It’s a sub-sample?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    edited December 6

    Dura_Ace said:

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, I have returned.

    My Arabic immersion semester at the University of Jeddah was excellent. I was going to go to Cairo University for the foreign semester during my Masters but I think I will come back to the Bride of the Red Sea instead.

    I can really see the appeal of just surrendering to the mysticism of the Moyen-Orient and disappearing into it like Burton, Philby Snr, Richard Keys and Andy Grey. If I didn't have commitments, I'd like to have a house in Al Balad and do nothing but read the Glorious Quran all day. After I had claimed hafiz status I would learn Persian and immerse myself in the complete works of Rumi. Finally, on my 60th birthday, like the most noted miniaturists of the Sublime Porte, I would blind myself with long iron needle tipped with a peacock feather as my eyes would no longer be capable of perceiving the world as Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) made it.


    I met a lot of young Saudi undergraduates and noted that the radical pan-Arab socialism of Nasser, Afleq and al-Bitar is now moribund. To the extent that they had an ideology it was varying shades of consumerist nihilism and Salafist fundamentalism. Thank Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) who made the skies and the earth, they have zero interest in and no small contempt for pluralist liberal democracy.

    I did radio interview in MSA on life as a mature foreign student in Jeddah and was sweating like Therese Coffey on a Parkrun but got through it. As a result, I was asked to write a newspaper article on the same theme. Sensing a payday, I penned a few anodyne lines on student life followed by a polemic demanding an immediate and violent end to the State of Israel. This I submitted, with a frankly outrageous invoice that was paid promptly and without quibble. Journalism is fucking bollocks and anyone can do it.

    I hope you all lumped on Jorge Martin to win the MotoGP WC at 1.8 when I told you back in June he would win it. I won a substantial four figure sum then the c*nts at .com closed my account.

    Here is everything you missed.

    Gregg Wallace has shot his career in both feet. You should support Chiara, the English-accented Italian chef who lived as a child in Marrakesh, Morocco, somewhere near Saudi, at least language-wise, in the finals of Masterchef: the Professionals next week.

    ETA Chiara's chocolate, pig's blood and bacon dessert might be problematic for some religions and anyone who can read a menu.
    Chiara is a bit of a dark horse, she has come on on leaps and bounds. Certainly our favourite too.

    The idea of pigs blood in that pastry as well as the desert. Genius.

    Popbitch this week is a Gregg special. The man seems to have no filter and just seems to love talking about his sex life.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
    I’m more of a planes guy than a trains guy, but “Nationwide Fault” is always a worrying phrase.

    Take your pick from:
    1. Cyberattack.
    2. Messed-up software upgrade.
    3. Bug in a system, or an overflow similar to Y2K.
    4. Something stupid like a power cut somewhere critical, which no-one realised was critical until it failed.
    The fact that is apparently a connection issue and that it is fine once they've managed to establish a connection makes it look like (1 [they are being DDOSed in some way) or (2-and-therefore-the-first-part-of-3) to me.

    It would be a classic if it's 4.

    We used to have low-rise, wooden framed offices outside Cambridge that were built up on Madingley Hill - one of the laughably-low "high points" in the area. Two of us were working a weekend to get something done before an event, and, of course, there was a massive power-cut that hit the whole of West Cambridge and the villages, including our office.

    After a couple of hours, an electricity company van pulled up outside and the chaps got out. Turned out they were scanning the landscape with binoculars to see if they could see where the lines came down.

    They did this for an hour or so, sending people out if they spotted anything suspicious looking. But nope, there was nothing.

    Then one looked up at the electricity pole next to our building. It had one of those big distributor junction box things at the top of it, relaying power to the little complex of buildings we were in.

    It also had a massive, very dead, slightly toasted crow jammed in it.

    Turns out that was the cause of the outage.
    Overhead line equipment on railways going under bridges is susceptible to tripping due to pigeons...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    edited December 6

    So if people don't mind me talking even more sh*t than usual:

    The water companies get a lot of (justifiable) bad press about sewage releases, often done at times of heavy rain. But the scale of the problem they have to tackle is quite amazing.

    In late November, London suffered 24 hours of heavy rain. Fortunately, the new Tideway tunnel, though incomplete, has started operation. In those 24 hours, it intercepted 850,000 tonnes of rain/sewage.

    850,000 tonnes.

    And even then, it was only half full.

    That figure is mind-bogglingly massive.

    https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/850000t-of-sewage-captured-by-thames-tideway-network-during-24-hour-storm-event-04-12-2024/

    One thing that does not help is the amount of blocked drains that councils are not clearing.

    The Gateshead flyover into Newcastle I have cycled over many times, the drains have never been cleared. Same on the A167 here. Plenty of drains are just silted up.

    I've noticed on our residential estate the council clearing the drains this year.

    However too many round here are blocked and no sign of them being cleared.

    The water has to go somewhere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    Taz said:

    Germany really is becoming the sick man of Europe.

    VW workers are going on strike for 4 hours in 9 factories over the threat of closures.

    However if people are not buying their cars then what will they have to build ?


    German industrial production unexpectedly fell in October, owing mainly to declines in energy production and in the automotive industry, the federal statistics office said on Friday.

    Production was down by 1.0% in October from the previous month, the office said.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/german-industrial-output-unexpectedly-falls-in-october/ar-AA1vnnuq?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=379165fe21944381d3f9eed745c9af24&ei=20

    Next year’s single biggest story in Germany is going to be the EU electric car mandates.

    There’s already ICE vehicle rationing going on in the UK, with the manufacturers and dealers refusing to sell cheap ICE cars to avoid potentially massive fines.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/04/petrol-car-numbers-uk-to-nearly-halve-in-a-decade/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,423
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
    That hasn't led to brain drain, it led to a multi-billion pound HQ in the centre of London and hiring 100s of the best PhDs. Now has it met that yet again the US reap the ultimate benefits of any potential ground breaking AI, that's a different story.

    The real question is that without Google's money / compute, DeepMind probably would have never have been able to scale. If it had been a US company it probably would e.g. Anthropic. I have heard several UK tech entrepreneurs saying you just can't get the VC money in the UK to scale fast and vast, everybody is very risk averse. And there is also a problem with mentality of the best and the brightest wanting to take risks themselves and set up a DeepMind.
    Indeed, so the problem you end up with is the British founders selling out for £millions, while the later US investors end up making the $billions.
    That may be the problem, but the 'cause' IMV is a sparsity of good VCs and VC companies in the UK (there are apparently some...), combined with short-term thinking and low risk tolerance by banking institutions.

    That has been an accusation for decades, and seems to be an almost unfixable part of our culture.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Taz said:

    Germany really is becoming the sick man of Europe.

    VW workers are going on strike for 4 hours in 9 factories over the threat of closures.

    However if people are not buying their cars then what will they have to build ?


    German industrial production unexpectedly fell in October, owing mainly to declines in energy production and in the automotive industry, the federal statistics office said on Friday.

    Production was down by 1.0% in October from the previous month, the office said.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/german-industrial-output-unexpectedly-falls-in-october/ar-AA1vnnuq?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=379165fe21944381d3f9eed745c9af24&ei=20

    The Germans like us have shot themselves in the foot with net zero twaddle.

    I suspect however they will reverse it quite quickly and drag the EU along with them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    Mr. Sandpit, it's mental that companies can be fined such that they're deliberately refusing to sell ICE vehicles.
  • Taz said:

    Germany really is becoming the sick man of Europe.

    VW workers are going on strike for 4 hours in 9 factories over the threat of closures.

    However if people are not buying their cars then what will they have to build ?


    German industrial production unexpectedly fell in October, owing mainly to declines in energy production and in the automotive industry, the federal statistics office said on Friday.

    Production was down by 1.0% in October from the previous month, the office said.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/german-industrial-output-unexpectedly-falls-in-october/ar-AA1vnnuq?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=379165fe21944381d3f9eed745c9af24&ei=20

    The Germans pursued years of joined up research and development joined up wifh government help in a small group of industrial sectors, which worked for decades until the Chinese took over.

    The lesson from Germany now would seem to be encourge research and long-term investment, but then don't put all your eggs in one or two baskets.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,073

    So if people don't mind me talking even more sh*t than usual:

    The water companies get a lot of (justifiable) bad press about sewage releases, often done at times of heavy rain. But the scale of the problem they have to tackle is quite amazing.

    In late November, London suffered 24 hours of heavy rain. Fortunately, the new Tideway tunnel, though incomplete, has started operation. In those 24 hours, it intercepted 850,000 tonnes of rain/sewage.

    850,000 tonnes.

    And even then, it was only half full.

    That figure is mind-bogglingly massive.

    https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/850000t-of-sewage-captured-by-thames-tideway-network-during-24-hour-storm-event-04-12-2024/

    Rowing on the Tideway, we've noticed that the red flags (alerts for very fast flowing stream in the Thames, from rainfall) are lasting a shorter time.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940
    ydoethur said:

    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
    I’m more of a planes guy than a trains guy, but “Nationwide Fault” is always a worrying phrase.

    Take your pick from:
    1. Cyberattack.
    2. Messed-up software upgrade.
    3. Bug in a system, or an overflow similar to Y2K.
    4. Something stupid like a power cut somewhere critical, which no-one realised was critical until it failed.
    The fact that is apparently a connection issue and that it is fine once they've managed to establish a connection makes it look like (1 [they are being DDOSed in some way) or (2-and-therefore-the-first-part-of-3) to me.

    It would be a classic if it's 4.

    We used to have low-rise, wooden framed offices outside Cambridge that were built up on Madingley Hill - one of the laughably-low "high points" in the area. Two of us were working a weekend to get something done before an event, and, of course, there was a massive power-cut that hit the whole of West Cambridge and the villages, including our office.

    After a couple of hours, an electricity company van pulled up outside and the chaps got out. Turned out they were scanning the landscape with binoculars to see if they could see where the lines came down.

    They did this for an hour or so, sending people out if they spotted anything suspicious looking. But nope, there was nothing.

    Then one looked up at the electricity pole next to our building. It had one of those big distributor junction box things at the top of it, relaying power to the little complex of buildings we were in.

    It also had a massive, very dead, slightly toasted crow jammed in it.

    Turns out that was the cause of the outage.
    Shame it wasn't a raven. Would have proved the old adage 'one raven for sorrow' big time.
    Well, ravens are a type of crow, as a synonym for Corvus. Though I suspect mwadams may have been referring to a carrion crow.

    There was an entertaining back-and-forth on this on a BBC news article comments section after the journalist correctly referred to a rook as a crow.

    #PBpedantry.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited December 6
    Foxy said:

    I think Badenoch is a lay for next PM.

    3 reasons:

    1) she may well not be LOTO by 2029
    2) if she survives that long it is quite likely that she won't be in charge of the largest party after the GE.
    3) it's increasingly likely that Labour will change PM before the next election.

    I think Farage is far too short too.

    I know its me being a hostage to fortune, but I have to ask why you think that Labour will change its rules and make it any easier to change Leaders when in Government when it was literally impossible while in Opposition under their current rules if the Leader didn't won't to stand down. And even if they did, who in the current line up of possible successors will be able to turn around Labour's current political and economic woes through any drastic policy/political spin on the main issues ?

    I also think that while Badenoch has an incredible tough job ahead of her as the Leader of the Opposition because of that incredble Labour result at the last GE, it is in some ways what will make her position more safe especially as because she is already turning out to be a far more formidable opponent for Farage and Reform than Starmer and the Labour party right now are and already the local by-elections and polling are reflecting that. Plus, why would the party want to change leader in Opposition if the current polling trends put the Conservatives ahead of Labour and Reform?

    Lets see how Farage manages being a constitueny MP and Leader in charge of Reform with five MPs for the next five years, will he like he did with UKIP see a never ending revolving door of key players who joined his party and then left disillusioned with the set up under his leadership?....

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    LE 2025 are going to be a bloodbath for SKS fans

    Since the 2024 General Election:

    LAB: 62 (-24)
    CON: 46 (+23)
    LDM: 30 (+1)
    GRN: 8 (+2)
    IND: 6 (-3)
    SNP: 5 (-1)
    RFM: 5 (+5)
    PLC: 2 (=)
    LOC: 2 (-2)

    163 seats contested since GE 2024


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    edited December 6
    mwadams said:

    Sandpit said:

    "Trains delayed across Britain due to 'nationwide fault' on communication system"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cv2g2rrjywqt

    Hmm.

    Not much further info, oddly.
    I’m more of a planes guy than a trains guy, but “Nationwide Fault” is always a worrying phrase.

    Take your pick from:
    1. Cyberattack.
    2. Messed-up software upgrade.
    3. Bug in a system, or an overflow similar to Y2K.
    4. Something stupid like a power cut somewhere critical, which no-one realised was critical until it failed.
    The fact that is apparently a connection issue and that it is fine once they've managed to establish a connection makes it look like (1 [they are being DDOSed in some way) or (2-and-therefore-the-first-part-of-3) to me.

    It would be a classic if it's 4.

    We used to have low-rise, wooden framed offices outside Cambridge that were built up on Madingley Hill - one of the laughably-low "high points" in the area. Two of us were working a weekend to get something done before an event, and, of course, there was a massive power-cut that hit the whole of West Cambridge and the villages, including our office.

    After a couple of hours, an electricity company van pulled up outside and the chaps got out. Turned out they were scanning the landscape with binoculars to see if they could see where the lines came down.

    They did this for an hour or so, sending people out if they spotted anything suspicious looking. But nope, there was nothing.

    Then one looked up at the electricity pole next to our building. It had one of those big distributor junction box things at the top of it, relaying power to the little complex of buildings we were in.

    It also had a massive, very dead, slightly toasted crow jammed in it.

    Turns out that was the cause of the outage.
    That’s a much better story than the cleaner unplugging the server to plug in the Henry!

    There’s so many unknown single points of failure for any business, even if they have explicitly paid for redundancy. Usually it’s a utility digging up the road that takes out a fibre bundle or power cable.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    SKS fans your boy is really popular in the West Midlands


    Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    ·
    43m
    #GE2029 projection in West Midlands (region):

    CON 23 seats (+8)
    REF 19 seats (+19)
    LAB 9 seats (-29)
    LD 1 seat (-)
    GRN 1 seat (-

    It’s a sub-sample?
    SKS subbed very soon
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,027
    edited December 6

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
    That hasn't led to brain drain, it led to a multi-billion pound HQ in the centre of London and hiring 100s of the best PhDs. Now has it met that yet again the US reap the ultimate benefits of any potential ground breaking AI, that's a different story.

    The real question is that without Google's money / compute, DeepMind probably would have never have been able to scale. If it had been a US company it probably would e.g. Anthropic. I have heard several UK tech entrepreneurs saying you just can't get the VC money in the UK to scale fast and vast, everybody is very risk averse. And there is also a problem with mentality of the best and the brightest wanting to take risks themselves and set up a DeepMind.
    It's the usual City short-termism, which, because the Tories encouraged it further, Starmer has to address or compensate for.
    It's not short termism, it's risk aversion. The same reason a UK company can shift it's primary listings today and get double the market cap in the US. UK investors are ridiculously risk averse compared to US ones. It's become a destructive cycle that UK equities are struggling to break out of too. Personally I'd put the blame on the regulator which has spent the last decade attempting to de-risk investing for retail investors but it's become a pervasive attitude that no one should lose money by investing. We need a much healthier attitude to risk if we want to see capital growth and startups listing in London rather than the US.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I think they are all too short - though perhaps trading value in Streeting and Rayner. I think Hybrid Air vehicles on the previous thread may be a better investment.

    Are there any potential alternatives to Rayner from the 'working class' (?) side of the party. I cannot find a better word.

    On Hybrid.

    I'm an investor, albeit on a small scale.

    I haven't had this email so far.


    Airships are going to have a tough time with a warming climate and higher wind speeds.

    Should be noted that airships fly at relatively slow speed through air, therefore if they're going against the wind then they'll have to fly far further through air than a plane. That's why they've never been a commercial success, anything other than a tailwind and they're screwed.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Dura_Ace said:

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, I have returned.

    My Arabic immersion semester at the University of Jeddah was excellent. I was going to go to Cairo University for the foreign semester during my Masters but I think I will come back to the Bride of the Red Sea instead.

    I can really see the appeal of just surrendering to the mysticism of the Moyen-Orient and disappearing into it like Burton, Philby Snr, Richard Keys and Andy Grey. If I didn't have commitments, I'd like to have a house in Al Balad and do nothing but read the Glorious Quran all day. After I had claimed hafiz status I would learn Persian and immerse myself in the complete works of Rumi. Finally, on my 60th birthday, like the most noted miniaturists of the Sublime Porte, I would blind myself with long iron needle tipped with a peacock feather as my eyes would no longer be capable of perceiving the world as Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) made it.


    I met a lot of young Saudi undergraduates and noted that the radical pan-Arab socialism of Nasser, Afleq and al-Bitar is now moribund. To the extent that they had an ideology it was varying shades of consumerist nihilism and Salafist fundamentalism. Thank Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) who made the skies and the earth, they have zero interest in and no small contempt for pluralist liberal democracy.

    I did radio interview in MSA on life as a mature foreign student in Jeddah and was sweating like Therese Coffey on a Parkrun but got through it. As a result, I was asked to write a newspaper article on the same theme. Sensing a payday, I penned a few anodyne lines on student life followed by a polemic demanding an immediate and violent end to the State of Israel. This I submitted, with a frankly outrageous invoice that was paid promptly and without quibble. Journalism is fucking bollocks and anyone can do it.

    I hope you all lumped on Jorge Martin to win the MotoGP WC at 1.8 when I told you back in June he would win it. I won a substantial four figure sum then the c*nts at .com closed my account.

    Welcome back.
    Nowadays aren’t we all consumerist nihilists enraged because the credit card is maxed out, and seething with contempt for pluralist liberal democracy? It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956

    LE 2025 are going to be a bloodbath for SKS fans

    Since the 2024 General Election:

    LAB: 62 (-24)
    CON: 46 (+23)
    LDM: 30 (+1)
    GRN: 8 (+2)
    IND: 6 (-3)
    SNP: 5 (-1)
    RFM: 5 (+5)
    PLC: 2 (=)
    LOC: 2 (-2)

    163 seats contested since GE 2024


    I think they are lucky that most will not be fertile labour territory anway.

    I am interested in Durham to see what happens there.

    The coalition has not been brilliant but Labour before was not great either.

    I cannot see Labour regaining control, if anything I can see them losing ground. But I can see Reform taking a few seats should they stand.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
    That hasn't led to brain drain, it led to a multi-billion pound HQ in the centre of London and hiring 100s of the best PhDs. Now has it met that yet again the US reap the ultimate benefits of any potential ground breaking AI, that's a different story.

    The real question is that without Google's money / compute, DeepMind probably would have never have been able to scale. If it had been a US company it probably would e.g. Anthropic. I have heard several UK tech entrepreneurs saying you just can't get the VC money in the UK to scale fast and vast, everybody is very risk averse. And there is also a problem with mentality of the best and the brightest wanting to take risks themselves and set up a DeepMind.
    Indeed, so the problem you end up with is the British founders selling out for £millions, while the later US investors end up making the $billions.
    That may be the problem, but the 'cause' IMV is a sparsity of good VCs and VC companies in the UK (there are apparently some...), combined with short-term thinking and low risk tolerance by banking institutions.

    That has been an accusation for decades, and seems to be an almost unfixable part of our culture.
    There would be a whole load more VC money in the UK, if the UK investors had made £billions in the past rather than selling out to American capital way too early.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393
    fitalass said:

    Foxy said:

    I think Badenoch is a lay for next PM.

    3 reasons:

    1) she may well not be LOTO by 2029
    2) if she survives that long it is quite likely that she won't be in charge of the largest party after the GE.
    3) it's increasingly likely that Labour will change PM before the next election.

    I think Farage is far too short too.

    I know its me being a hostage to fortune, but I have to ask why you think that Labour will change its rules and make it any easier to change Leaders when in Government when it was literally impossible while in Opposition under their current rules. And even if they did, who in the current line up of possible successors will be able to turn around Labour's current political and economic woes through any drastic policy/political spin on the main issues ?

    I also think that while Badenoch has an incredible tough job ahead of her as the Leader of the Opposition because of that incredble Labour result at the last GE, it is in some ways what will make her position more safe especially as because she is already turning out to be a far more formidable opponent for Farage and Reform than Starmer and the Labour party right now are and already the local by-elections and polling are reflecting that.

    Lets see how Farage manages being a constitueny MP and Leader in charge of Reform with five MPs for the next five years, will he like he did with UKIP see a never ending revolving door of key players who joined his party and then left disillusioned with the set up under his leadership?....

    imo Starmer will step down around the time of the next election, and probably before. If he does follow Harold Wilson by resigning, then the question of how hard it is for Labour to oust a leader is moot.

    Starmer is in his 60s and soon will be older than any previous Prime Minister since Jim Callaghan. He is not a natural politician but at heart a lawyer. He has no great project he wants to see enacted. And (shades of Wilson?) he is starting to misspeak. For these reasons, I expect him to retire.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,027
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
    That hasn't led to brain drain, it led to a multi-billion pound HQ in the centre of London and hiring 100s of the best PhDs. Now has it met that yet again the US reap the ultimate benefits of any potential ground breaking AI, that's a different story.

    The real question is that without Google's money / compute, DeepMind probably would have never have been able to scale. If it had been a US company it probably would e.g. Anthropic. I have heard several UK tech entrepreneurs saying you just can't get the VC money in the UK to scale fast and vast, everybody is very risk averse. And there is also a problem with mentality of the best and the brightest wanting to take risks themselves and set up a DeepMind.
    Indeed, so the problem you end up with is the British founders selling out for £millions, while the later US investors end up making the $billions.
    That may be the problem, but the 'cause' IMV is a sparsity of good VCs and VC companies in the UK (there are apparently some...), combined with short-term thinking and low risk tolerance by banking institutions.

    That has been an accusation for decades, and seems to be an almost unfixable part of our culture.
    There would be a whole load more VC money in the UK, if the UK investors had made £billions in the past rather than selling out to American capital way too early.
    Fundamentally there's no appetite in this country to fund loss making companies for 7-10 years as there is in the US. If Uber was a UK company it would have gone bankrupt in two or three years because investors would have pulled the plug. Americans are much better at taking calculated risks, which company in the UK trades at the same multiple as Palantir?
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but a really interesting thread on the EU tech brain drain, mostly to the US.

    https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1864850794866184570

    UK government should be all over this, trying to attract these people themselves by fostering a good half-way between European and US culture and regulation. It’s a massive Brexit benefit to be away from whatever the EU are about to do with AI regulation.

    UK record on AI brain drain: flogging DeepMind to the yanks.
    That hasn't led to brain drain, it led to a multi-billion pound HQ in the centre of London and hiring 100s of the best PhDs. Now has it met that yet again the US reap the ultimate benefits of any potential ground breaking AI, that's a different story.

    The real question is that without Google's money / compute, DeepMind probably would have never have been able to scale. If it had been a US company it probably would e.g. Anthropic. I have heard several UK tech entrepreneurs saying you just can't get the VC money in the UK to scale fast and vast, everybody is very risk averse. And there is also a problem with mentality of the best and the brightest wanting to take risks themselves and set up a DeepMind.
    Indeed, so the problem you end up with is the British founders selling out for £millions, while the later US investors end up making the $billions.
    That may be the problem, but the 'cause' IMV is a sparsity of good VCs and VC companies in the UK (there are apparently some...), combined with short-term thinking and low risk tolerance by banking institutions.

    That has been an accusation for decades, and seems to be an almost unfixable part of our culture.
    There would be a whole load more VC money in the UK, if the UK investors had made £billions in the past rather than selling out to American capital way too early.
    Short-term gains again.
    Risk aversion can also be slightly distinct, as Max prefers to highlight the side of, but they are definitely both present and intertwined problems in the U.K.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Even on the latest FindOutNow poll Reform would still only be on about 90 seats, with the Tories and Labour both still over 200 seats. So while Farage could well be Kingmaker unless Reform gets to about 30% he is still well short of becoming King
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166

    Taz said:

    Germany really is becoming the sick man of Europe.

    VW workers are going on strike for 4 hours in 9 factories over the threat of closures.

    However if people are not buying their cars then what will they have to build ?


    German industrial production unexpectedly fell in October, owing mainly to declines in energy production and in the automotive industry, the federal statistics office said on Friday.

    Production was down by 1.0% in October from the previous month, the office said.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/german-industrial-output-unexpectedly-falls-in-october/ar-AA1vnnuq?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=379165fe21944381d3f9eed745c9af24&ei=20

    The Germans like us have shot themselves in the foot with net zero twaddle.

    I suspect however they will reverse it quite quickly and drag the EU along with them.
    Rather it's their failure to invest in it for their manufacturing industry.

    Auto production is massive for their economy, and they've effectively ceded the future of that to China. Having generously provided them with a good deal of their manufacturing technology.

    The other big mistake was banding nuclear power.
  • Thanks for the detail on the rail issue. I wonder if it was a DDOS.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    F1: half a dozen rookies in first practice. Notable ones are Jack Doohan, taking Ocon's place at Alpine for the final race, and Arthur Leclerc, who joins his brother for Ferrari for the session.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 6
    The thing that is killing the German automakers, they are crap at software. Brilliant at ICE engineering, rubbish at writing software that the consumer will interact with. Also not exactly smashing the AI / ML stuff either. Particularly with move to EVs, its all about the software.
This discussion has been closed.