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Irish General Election Predictions [Part 2/2] Constituencies F – W – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited December 3 in General
imageIrish General Election Predictions [Part 2/2] Constituencies F – W – politicalbetting.com

I hope you all appreciated part one. Part two will have slightly more insight.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    You're predicting an aggregate of seven seats for Independent Ireland which feels very plausible. No second TD for Aontú though?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    On Louth, a few things worth noting. It has the greatest number of candidates for any constituency. A veritable horde of Independents, of which I have no idea which of them has any traction, except that the incumbent Independent (ex-FG) isn't standing again.

    And there's controversy around the FG candidate who was acquitted of a serious assault. Could be a surprise here.
  • Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    NAP = best bet
    NB = second best bet

    https://www.oddschecker.com/betting-terms/nb
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    The clown should go do what they say and keep doing it
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
  • You're predicting an aggregate of seven seats for Independent Ireland which feels very plausible. No second TD for Aontú though?

    Of course, it is possible to get a second TD but they are a one trick pony who only attract protest voters.

    I am more interested in PAW [Party for animal welfare]. I hope they build for the future.
  • On Louth, a few things worth noting. It has the greatest number of candidates for any constituency. A veritable horde of Independents, of which I have no idea which of them has any traction, except that the incumbent Independent (ex-FG) isn't standing again.

    And there's controversy around the FG candidate who was acquitted of a serious assault. Could be a surprise here.

    Have you heard the term "the fighting irish"?

    He might attract more votes. All publicity is good publicity.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.
  • viewcode said:

    NAP = best bet
    NB = second best bet

    https://www.oddschecker.com/betting-terms/nb

    Thankfully, I don't generate the odds. Odds are irrelevant. I feel the NAP has a slightly greater chance.

    Irish politics odds are usually overexaggerated.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    I was hoping for better constituency names if I'm honest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Good journalism does teach us something after all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Why are the Healy-Rae brothers so safe?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
    Thanks for pointing out that the $750 wasn’t automatic and had to be applied for, and also that *some* of the people affected *may* be able to claim other benefits.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited November 27
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    At least they are still in profit which is more than some businesses can say in the current climate
  • David Coote under FA gambling investigation after ‘discussing booking before match’

    Referee reportedly told friend ‘I hope you backed as discussed’ after he cautioned Leeds’ Ezgjan Alioski in Championship match in 2019

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/26/david-coote-fa-gambling-investigation-booking-leeds/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    On the latest Irish poll looks like FF will be largest party and Michael Martin will return as Taisoeach after Harris' gaffe

    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/11/25/irish-times-poll-fine-gael-support-slumps-as-general-election-campaign-enters-final-stretch/
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    kle4 said:

    Why are the Healy-Rae brothers so safe?

    Fintan O'Toole calls it "clientilism". They're the big guys in the local area who can get things done.

    So, the local hospitals don't have capacity for cataract operations and the waiting list is >12 months. Not to worry, the Healy-Raes will sort you out with a bus to Belfast to get it done privately, and have you reimbursed by the government.

    Or, you're having a bit of trouble with a planning application to build a house for your son. Not to worry, the Healy-Raes will talk to the council planning department and then it's all smiles all round. Sure, didn't his grandfather know your grandfather and we're all here to help each other out?

    Plus there's a lot of mileage in invoking resistance to the too clever by half eejits up in Dublin. County Dublin supplies 49 TDs this time, out of 174 in total, so Dublin and the Dublin commuter belt is of central importance for the big parties to appeal to, but independents in rural areas distant from Dublin and all its national infrastructure can make a lot of play out of standing up for the "ignored people of rural Ireland", although FF/FG bend over backwards to please the strong rural and farming lobbies.

    The Healy-Raes are particularly strong in South Kerry - even the "big" city of Tralee (population 26,000) is a source of resentment.

    So, two main factors. Politics in Ireland is hyper-local, many orders of magnitudes beyond what the Liberal Democrats could imagine. And the state in Ireland is dysfunctional, and local politicians have done well to exploit that dysfunctionality to build a base of support that owes them and feels reliant on their patronage.
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    That's isolationism not libertarianism.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    It's easier to defend Britain when we have the buffer zone of France, Germany, Poland and Ukraine between us and the Russian Bear.
    Indeed and France of course has a nuclear missile deterrent too
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    edited November 27

    David Coote under FA gambling investigation after ‘discussing booking before match’

    Referee reportedly told friend ‘I hope you backed as discussed’ after he cautioned Leeds’ Ezgjan Alioski in Championship match in 2019

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/26/david-coote-fa-gambling-investigation-booking-leeds/

    It’s beginning to look like chants from the terraces about the ref being a stupid **** might have some truth.

    At least the Celtic fans generously left out the stupid bit.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-fans-douglas-ross-banner-29193096
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited November 27
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    At least they are still in profit which is more than some businesses can say in the current climate
    Yes, the post was framed in a way to suggest profitability had left the building.

    Mind you It doesn't let Starmer and Miliband off the hook for presiding over such declining profits and the uncertainty that will bring to towns like Ingolstadt, Wolfsburg, Munich, Stuttgart and Bremen.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    That's isolationism not libertarianism.
    The 2 are often interlinked, see Ron Paul, a classic libertarian isolationist
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    That's isolationism not libertarianism.
    Unfortunately the two do go hand in hand in some quarters.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    It would seem to me pragmatically inpossible that libertarianism should have organisation coherent enough for the rest of us to be able to say what, as a whole, it believes.

    (For similar reasons as to why The Groucho Club shouldn't have any members).

    'Small state' people generally become tongue tied when asked to choose between abolishing the NHS, state pensions, free education or social housing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
  • algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    It would seem to me pragmatically inpossible that libertarianism should have organisation coherent enough for the rest of us to be able to say what, as a whole, it believes.

    (For similar reasons as to why The Groucho Club shouldn't have any members).

    'Small state' people generally become tongue tied when asked to choose between abolishing the NHS, state pensions, free education or social housing.
    I think you are confusing Libertarianism with anarchism.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    It would seem to me pragmatically inpossible that libertarianism should have organisation coherent enough for the rest of us to be able to say what, as a whole, it believes.

    (For similar reasons as to why The Groucho Club shouldn't have any members).

    'Small state' people generally become tongue tied when asked to choose between abolishing the NHS, state pensions, free education or social housing.
    Minarchism?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    kle4 said:

    Why are the Healy-Rae brothers so safe?

    The other thing is that they work the area very hard. They go to a huge number of funerals, which are a big deal in rural Ireland where people know each other so much, can trace distant family relationships to at least half the county, and the most popular website is rip.ie.

    So, they're always at the funerals, shaking hands, reminding people of their connections, being a real person. It's easy for me to say that the Healy-Raes are an awful pair of hypocrites and a lot more besides, but the people who vote for them know them and trust them to stand up for them in Dublin.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
    Hmm, in the Trump Dictatorship the LS2 V8 is king. Remember global warming is a myth. We won't be needing battery factories just foundries for casting those big blocks.

    Has anyone informed Elon?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    The Canadian government expects 4.9 million people to leave voluntarily when their visas expire.

    The UK faces a similar question over the people given visas by Boris Johnson’s government. If they are not renewed then a lot of people will need to leave.

    https://torontosun.com/news/national/feds-expect-4-9-million-with-expiring-visas-to-voluntarily-leave-canada-in-next-year
  • algarkirk said:


    (For similar reasons as to why The Groucho Club shouldn't have any members).

    "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited November 27

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
    Hmm, in the Trump Dictatorship the LS2 V8 is king. Remember global warming is a myth. We won't be needing battery factories just foundries for casting those big blocks.

    Has anyone informed Elon?
    I think you are assuming that Trump holds a coherent & durable mind state. There are constant reports from non-insane people who had to work with him, that say that he changes his mind according to who last spoke to him.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521

    kle4 said:

    Why are the Healy-Rae brothers so safe?

    The other thing is that they work the area very hard. They go to a huge number of funerals, which are a big deal in rural Ireland where people know each other so much, can trace distant family relationships to at least half the county, and the most popular website is rip.ie.

    So, they're always at the funerals, shaking hands, reminding people of their connections, being a real person. It's easy for me to say that the Healy-Raes are an awful pair of hypocrites and a lot more besides, but the people who vote for them know them and trust them to stand up for them in Dublin.
    That’s very sensible. Personal votes matter - not so much in urban areas - but very much in rural districts. It’s why Lib Dem MP’s are so hard to shift.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited November 27
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    It would seem to me pragmatically inpossible that libertarianism should have organisation coherent enough for the rest of us to be able to say what, as a whole, it believes.

    (For similar reasons as to why The Groucho Club shouldn't have any members).

    'Small state' people generally become tongue tied when asked to choose between abolishing the NHS, state pensions, free education or social housing.
    If you were a genuine Barry Goldwater style libertarian you would want to abolish almost all those. Fund healthcare largely by private health insurance like the US, use the market to provide cheaper housing for rent if demand not the state, only have state pensions if fully contributed to when working and make all education in the short term voucher based and in the long term ideally 100% private school with cheaper schools with low fees for those who cannot afford more expensive private schools
  • Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
    Hmm, in the Trump Dictatorship the LS2 V8 is king. Remember global warming is a myth. We won't be needing battery factories just foundries for casting those big blocks.

    Has anyone informed Elon?
    I think you are assuming that Trump holds a coherent & durable mind state. There are constant reports from non-insane people who had to work with him, that say that he changes his mind according to who last spoke to him.
    That wouldn’t surprise me. “Like an old sofa, he bears the imprint of the arse that last sat on him.”
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    edited November 27
    HYUFD said:

    On the latest Irish poll looks like FF will be largest party and Michael Martin will return as Taisoeach after Harris' gaffe

    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/11/25/irish-times-poll-fine-gael-support-slumps-as-general-election-campaign-enters-final-stretch/

    The latest poll is close enough that FF and FG will agree to do the rotating Taoiseach again. There had been a few polls earlier where it looked like FG would have done well enough to bring that into question.

    But perhaps FG will do really badly. The main talking point of the campaign seems to be how crap Harris is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    HYUFD said:

    On the latest Irish poll looks like FF will be largest party and Michael Martin will return as Taisoeach after Harris' gaffe

    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/11/25/irish-times-poll-fine-gael-support-slumps-as-general-election-campaign-enters-final-stretch/

    The latest poll is close enough that FF and FG will agree to do the rotating Taoiseach again. There had been a few polls earlier where it looked like FG would have done well enough to bring that into question.

    But perhaps FG will do really badly. The main talking point of the campaign seems to be how crap Harris is.
    He seems to have had as bad a campaign as May did in 2017, losing a big poll lead and maybe even worse as FG looks like no longer even staying first unlike the Tories then
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
    Hmm, in the Trump Dictatorship the LS2 V8 is king. Remember global warming is a myth. We won't be needing battery factories just foundries for casting those big blocks.

    Has anyone informed Elon?
    I think you are assuming that Trump holds a coherent & durable mind state. There are constant reports from non-insane people who had to work with him, that say that he changes his mind according to who last spoke to him.
    The Trolley?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    It's easier to defend Britain when we have the buffer zone of France, Germany, Poland and Ukraine between us and the Russian Bear.
    Indeed and France of course has a nuclear missile deterrent too
    I am not sure on a practical level that helps.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    I think a lot of people who call themselves libertarians are actually authoritarians - they want maximum personal liberty for themselves, and see the best way to achieving that is to deny personal liberty to others. This is why Twitter under Musk is now expending so much effort silencing those who dissent from pro-MAGA.

    It's also why so many of them have so much admiration for Putin, a tough-guy authoritarian, who should be anathema to any libertarian worth the name.
    Trump is an authoritarian, Ron Paul is a libertarian.

    Musk switches between the 2 dependent on his mood
  • kle4 said:

    Why are the Healy-Rae brothers so safe?

    They are very effective pork barrelers.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,316
    edited November 27
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Some UK libertarians, too. Sean Gabb repeats every pro-Putin talking point.

    It ought to be libertarianism 101 that people are entitled to defend themselves, both individually and collectively.
    I would expect only about 10% of 'libertarians' are libertarian.
    A lot of libertarians don't think the UK should send troops or military aid abroad at all but that our defence should solely be on defending the UK, hence libertarian opposition to the Iraq Wars and Afghanistan War too as well as opposition to funding Zelensky.

    Libertarians basically want a very small state and are fiscally conservative and socially liberal
    It would seem to me pragmatically inpossible that libertarianism should have organisation coherent enough for the rest of us to be able to say what, as a whole, it believes.

    (For similar reasons as to why The Groucho Club shouldn't have any members).

    'Small state' people generally become tongue tied when asked to choose between abolishing the NHS, state pensions, free education or social housing.
    If you were a genuine Barry Goldwater style libertarian you would want to abolish almost all those. Fund healthcare largely by private health insurance like the US, use the market to provide cheaper housing for rent if demand not the state, only have state pensions if fully contributed to when working and make all education in the short term voucher based and in the long term ideally 100% private school with cheaper schools with low fees for those who cannot afford more expensive private schools
    This has already been dealt with:

    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free
    But if you think that I'll let Barry Goldwater
    Move in next door and marry my daughter
    You must think I'm crazy
    I wouldn't let him do it for all the farms in Cuba
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 726

    algarkirk said:


    (For similar reasons as to why The Groucho Club shouldn't have any members).

    "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
    Alternative Groucho Marx quote:

    "I've got a good mind to go out and join a club and beat you over the head with it"
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    They are easy amused then listening to a moron spouting crap.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 726
    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    They are easy amused then listening to a moron spouting crap.
    That could be inscribed on the tombstone of almost all of us on PB.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
    Hmm, in the Trump Dictatorship the LS2 V8 is king. Remember global warming is a myth. We won't be needing battery factories just foundries for casting those big blocks.

    Has anyone informed Elon?
    I think you are assuming that Trump holds a coherent & durable mind state. There are constant reports from non-insane people who had to work with him, that say that he changes his mind according to who last spoke to him.
    That wouldn’t surprise me. “Like an old sofa, he bears the imprint of the arse that last sat on him.”
    Many years ago, when a student, we used to hold pissups in the House of Commons Jubilee Room - just off Westminster hall.

    You'd book it, bring in some ghastly cheap wine and some snacks. MPs and their assistants can't resist free booze. It was like chumming for sharks....

    Anyway, Tony Blair turned up a couple of times, before he began his ascent. The reason he stuck in the mind, was that he would adopt the mannerisms (and apparently, the tenor of thought) of those he was talking to. A couple of people commented on that.

    A couple of us reckoned, later, that Iraq happened because, after a week at GBWs ranch in Texas, he was a redneck Republican.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,316
    edited November 27

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
    Hmm, in the Trump Dictatorship the LS2 V8 is king. Remember global warming is a myth. We won't be needing battery factories just foundries for casting those big blocks.

    Has anyone informed Elon?
    I think you are assuming that Trump holds a coherent & durable mind state. There are constant reports from non-insane people who had to work with him, that say that he changes his mind according to who last spoke to him.
    That wouldn’t surprise me. “Like an old sofa, he bears the imprint of the arse that last sat on him.”
    Many years ago, when a student, we used to hold pissups in the House of Commons Jubilee Room - just off Westminster hall.

    You'd book it, bring in some ghastly cheap wine and some snacks. MPs and their assistants can't resist free booze. It was like chumming for sharks....

    Anyway, Tony Blair turned up a couple of times, before he began his ascent. The reason he stuck in the mind, was that he would adopt the mannerisms (and apparently, the tenor of thought) of those he was talking to. A couple of people commented on that.

    A couple of us reckoned, later, that Iraq happened because, after a week at GBWs ranch in Texas, he was a redneck Republican.
    How we yearn for good, old-fashioned, redneck Republicans when the Old Party was still Grand and everyone knew what it stood for.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
    Thanks for pointing out that the $750 wasn’t automatic and had to be applied for, and also that *some* of the people affected *may* be able to claim other benefits.
    OMG, will you stop with the MAGA propaganda?

    Of course you have to apply for the money. That's how benefits generally work.

    A large amount of additional FEMA support was available for temporary housing, getting medical care, funeral costs, and the cost of damaged personal property.
  • kle4 said:

    Why are the Healy-Rae brothers so safe?

    The Southern Irish love far right fascists. They vote them every election. Those brother's are idolised.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
    Hmm, in the Trump Dictatorship the LS2 V8 is king. Remember global warming is a myth. We won't be needing battery factories just foundries for casting those big blocks.

    Has anyone informed Elon?
    I think you are assuming that Trump holds a coherent & durable mind state. There are constant reports from non-insane people who had to work with him, that say that he changes his mind according to who last spoke to him.
    That wouldn’t surprise me. “Like an old sofa, he bears the imprint of the arse that last sat on him.”
    Many years ago, when a student, we used to hold pissups in the House of Commons Jubilee Room - just off Westminster hall.

    You'd book it, bring in some ghastly cheap wine and some snacks. MPs and their assistants can't resist free booze. It was like chumming for sharks....

    Anyway, Tony Blair turned up a couple of times, before he began his ascent. The reason he stuck in the mind, was that he would adopt the mannerisms (and apparently, the tenor of thought) of those he was talking to. A couple of people commented on that.

    A couple of us reckoned, later, that Iraq happened because, after a week at GBWs ranch in Texas, he was a redneck Republican.
    How we yearn for good, old-fashioned, redneck Republicans when the Old Party was still Grand and everyone knew what it stood for.
    … and the Democrats were the literal Party of Treason.

    Top hats were in fashion, as well.
  • kle4 said:

    Why are the Healy-Rae brothers so safe?

    The other thing is that they work the area very hard. They go to a huge number of funerals, which are a big deal in rural Ireland where people know each other so much, can trace distant family relationships to at least half the county, and the most popular website is rip.ie.

    So, they're always at the funerals, shaking hands, reminding people of their connections, being a real person. It's easy for me to say that the Healy-Raes are an awful pair of hypocrites and a lot more besides, but the people who vote for them know them and trust them to stand up for them in Dublin.
    Correct, they are useless. Crazy thing is they are multi millionaires and the salary is purely pocket money.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    This report fairly and squarely defined the reason why the Stellantis plant in Luton had to close. Just ignore the date.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295.amp
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,554

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs.

    Here comes a very offensive opinion. I may get banned for life from PB for making it.

    "Investing in battery production" doesn't mean

    - Having conferences about battery production
    - Press releases about battery production
    - TV interviews about battery production
    - Government announcements about battery production
    - 10,000 page strategy documents about battery production
    - Buying batteries from China

    It means taking actual money. And building actual fucking factories to build actual fucking batteries.

    Anything you do every damn day, is part of your core business

    OK

    Could someone help cart away the "Industry leaders" who have just died of heart failure from the speaking of heresy?
    Hmm, in the Trump Dictatorship the LS2 V8 is king. Remember global warming is a myth. We won't be needing battery factories just foundries for casting those big blocks.

    Has anyone informed Elon?
    I think you are assuming that Trump holds a coherent & durable mind state. There are constant reports from non-insane people who had to work with him, that say that he changes his mind according to who last spoke to him.
    That wouldn’t surprise me. “Like an old sofa, he bears the imprint of the arse that last sat on him.”
    Many years ago, when a student, we used to hold pissups in the House of Commons Jubilee Room - just off Westminster hall.

    You'd book it, bring in some ghastly cheap wine and some snacks. MPs and their assistants can't resist free booze. It was like chumming for sharks....

    Anyway, Tony Blair turned up a couple of times, before he began his ascent. The reason he stuck in the mind, was that he would adopt the mannerisms (and apparently, the tenor of thought) of those he was talking to. A couple of people commented on that.

    A couple of us reckoned, later, that Iraq happened because, after a week at GBWs ranch in Texas, he was a redneck Republican.
    How we yearn for good, old-fashioned, redneck Republicans when the Old Party was still Grand and everyone knew what it stood for.
    … and the Democrats were the literal Party of Treason.

    Top hats were in fashion, as well.
    And people wore an onion on their belt, which was the style at the time.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Perhaps they could do it in the ring.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    This report fairly and squarely defined the reason why the Stellantis plant in Luton had to close. Just ignore the date.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295.amp
    Hard to criticise anyone wanting to leave Luton if you’ve been there tbh.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited November 27

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
    Thanks for pointing out that the $750 wasn’t automatic and had to be applied for, and also that *some* of the people affected *may* be able to claim other benefits.
    OMG, will you stop with the MAGA propaganda?

    Of course you have to apply for the money. That's how benefits generally work.

    A large amount of additional FEMA support was available for temporary housing, getting medical care, funeral costs, and the cost of damaged personal property.
    The result, for many Americans displaced by natural disasters, has been nothing but the $750.

    This goes back to the Maui fires nearly two years ago, where the displaced people got nothing bar that initial payment. Here’s the Biden admin boasting about the $5.6m (that’s million, not billion), that they spent on 2,000 displaced households. Call it $1k per person. Most of the other assistance that could be applied for, is in the form of loans. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/08/18/hawaii-news/fema-has-paid-out-more-than-5-6-million-to-maui-fire-survivors/

    Let’s not get into the FEMA official who was fired for telling aid workers to avoid houses showing signs of Trump support in Florida. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/fema-employee-trump-florida-hurricane/index.html

    There’s only one side caught continually lying here.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    This report fairly and squarely defined the reason why the Stellantis plant in Luton had to close. Just ignore the date.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295.amp
    Hard to criticise anyone wanting to leave Luton if you’ve been there tbh.
    Note that the reason was tariffs by the EU on non-EU/UK content vehicles. Stellantis couldn't conceive of not offshoring more content to reduce costs. Essentially, they wanted to buy batteries from China.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    David Coote under FA gambling investigation after ‘discussing booking before match’

    Referee reportedly told friend ‘I hope you backed as discussed’ after he cautioned Leeds’ Ezgjan Alioski in Championship match in 2019

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/26/david-coote-fa-gambling-investigation-booking-leeds/

    He’s in a whole load of trouble if that quote is accurate.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
    Thanks for pointing out that the $750 wasn’t automatic and had to be applied for, and also that *some* of the people affected *may* be able to claim other benefits.
    OMG, will you stop with the MAGA propaganda?

    Of course you have to apply for the money. That's how benefits generally work.

    A large amount of additional FEMA support was available for temporary housing, getting medical care, funeral costs, and the cost of damaged personal property.
    The result, for many Americans displaced by natural disasters, has been nothing but the $750.

    This goes back to the Maui fires nearly two years ago, where the displaced people got nothing bar that initial payment. Here’s the Biden admin boasting about the $5.6m (that’s million, not billion), that they spent on 2,000 displaced households. Call it $1k per person. Most of the other assistance that could be applied for, is in the form of loans. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/08/18/hawaii-news/fema-has-paid-out-more-than-5-6-million-to-maui-fire-survivors/

    Let’s not get into the FEMA official who was fired for telling aid workers to avoid houses showing signs of Trump support in Florida. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/fema-employee-trump-florida-hurricane/index.html

    There’s only one side caught continually lying here.
    Hey, it’s over, you no longer need to sock puppet for a party you can’t vote for in a country in which you don’t live.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited November 27

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.

    What is it like to attend this school?
    Pupils attending Whitefield school are happy, well cared for and kept safe. Pupils are
    treated with dignity and respect and enjoy positive relationships with adults. Staff
    are highly knowledgeable about working with the considerable range of varying
    needs.

    The school in question is https://www.whitefieldschool.org.uk/ , not to be confused with https://www.whitefield.barnet.sch.uk/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
    Thanks for pointing out that the $750 wasn’t automatic and had to be applied for, and also that *some* of the people affected *may* be able to claim other benefits.
    OMG, will you stop with the MAGA propaganda?

    Of course you have to apply for the money. That's how benefits generally work.

    A large amount of additional FEMA support was available for temporary housing, getting medical care, funeral costs, and the cost of damaged personal property.
    The result, for many Americans displaced by natural disasters, has been nothing but the $750.

    This goes back to the Maui fires nearly two years ago, where the displaced people got nothing bar that initial payment. Here’s the Biden admin boasting about the $5.6m (that’s million, not billion), that they spent on 2,000 displaced households. Call it $1k per person. Most of the other assistance that could be applied for, is in the form of loans. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/08/18/hawaii-news/fema-has-paid-out-more-than-5-6-million-to-maui-fire-survivors/

    Let’s not get into the FEMA official who was fired for telling aid workers to avoid houses showing signs of Trump support in Florida. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/fema-employee-trump-florida-hurricane/index.html

    There’s only one side caught continually lying here.
    The result, for many PBers displaced by wanting distraction from their day jobs, has been nothing but you regurgitating MAGA talking points.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    edited November 27
    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    I think petrol cars will be illegal before your driving life is over.

    (full disclosure: I still prefer them and haven't switched)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    a

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
    Thanks for pointing out that the $750 wasn’t automatic and had to be applied for, and also that *some* of the people affected *may* be able to claim other benefits.
    OMG, will you stop with the MAGA propaganda?

    Of course you have to apply for the money. That's how benefits generally work.

    A large amount of additional FEMA support was available for temporary housing, getting medical care, funeral costs, and the cost of damaged personal property.
    The result, for many Americans displaced by natural disasters, has been nothing but the $750.

    This goes back to the Maui fires nearly two years ago, where the displaced people got nothing bar that initial payment. Here’s the Biden admin boasting about the $5.6m (that’s million, not billion), that they spent on 2,000 displaced households. Call it $1k per person. Most of the other assistance that could be applied for, is in the form of loans. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/08/18/hawaii-news/fema-has-paid-out-more-than-5-6-million-to-maui-fire-survivors/

    Let’s not get into the FEMA official who was fired for telling aid workers to avoid houses showing signs of Trump support in Florida. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/fema-employee-trump-florida-hurricane/index.html

    There’s only one side caught continually lying here.
    Hey, it’s over, you no longer need to sock puppet for a party you can’t vote for in a country in which you don’t live.
    Does that make you... a Bourbon Expert?

    {runs away giggling}
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
    Thanks for pointing out that the $750 wasn’t automatic and had to be applied for, and also that *some* of the people affected *may* be able to claim other benefits.
    OMG, will you stop with the MAGA propaganda?

    Of course you have to apply for the money. That's how benefits generally work.

    A large amount of additional FEMA support was available for temporary housing, getting medical care, funeral costs, and the cost of damaged personal property.
    The result, for many Americans displaced by natural disasters, has been nothing but the $750.

    This goes back to the Maui fires nearly two years ago, where the displaced people got nothing bar that initial payment. Here’s the Biden admin boasting about the $5.6m (that’s million, not billion), that they spent on 2,000 displaced households. Call it $1k per person. Most of the other assistance that could be applied for, is in the form of loans. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/08/18/hawaii-news/fema-has-paid-out-more-than-5-6-million-to-maui-fire-survivors/

    Let’s not get into the FEMA official who was fired for telling aid workers to avoid houses showing signs of Trump support in Florida. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/fema-employee-trump-florida-hurricane/index.html

    There’s only one side caught continually lying here.
    The result, for many PBers displaced by wanting distraction from their day jobs, has been nothing but you regurgitating MAGA talking points.
    So back to the ad-hominem rather than actually addressing the points raised. Thanks.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    There is also range anxiety, which should be less now but it takes a while for people's opinions to change. And if you can't charge at home they are not particularly cheap to run. And I presume rising interest rates means that lease deals are more expensive so people may have to go for a cheaper ICE car instead
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    edited November 27

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    Both this government, and the last ought to have recognised that if you want a fast transition to EVs, you need a domestic car industry producing them.
    A system of fines isn't going to create that; it's just going to further erode what little we have left.
    Deal with, and incentives for one of more overseas manufacturers to build manufacturing capacity here (for both batteries and vehicles) are essential.

    Also, with current battery developments, the best manufacturers will reach cost parity with ICE vehicles within two to three years. so there isn't a lot of time to carry on messing around.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Credit where it’s due to Starmer, no big announcement but dozens more Storm Shadows have been sent to Ukraine in recent weeks. They’re proving quite useful.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1861403987687231932
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/uk-sends-kyiv-more-storm-shadows-as-starmer-pledges-support

    I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about that?

    https://kyivindependent.com/honestly-go-f-k-yourself-ukrainians-react-to-joe-rogans-rant-on-ukraine/
    I’ve not actually seen the offending podcast, but assuming the clips aren’t way out of context then he’s indeed the idiot he often describes himself to be.

    Former boxing champ Wladimir Klitchko has offered to go on his podcast and give the Ukranian point of view, which would be good to watch. https://x.com/klitschko/status/1860797661701460226
    Rogan is popular and gets lots of people on his shows. But his insights are a bit simple and if he thinks there's some kind of parity of morality between Russia and Ukraine then he is at best stupid and at worse decadent and callous.
    It’s one of these issues that illustrates well the horse-shoe theory. Plenty of US libertarians sound little different to the UK Corbynites of a few years ago, who think that their country should have nothing to do with war, and specifically think that NATO expansion since the fall of of the Iron Curtain has somehow ‘provoked’ Russia.

    In the US there’s also the economic argument, where seemingly billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine (they’re not, most of the spending is in the US), whereas little money is being made available for disaster victims in the US (see recent hurricanes and wildfires, where displaced persons were offered $750 by the Federal government).

    Personally I think that winning this war is existential not only for Ukraine, but also for much of Eastern Europe, and everyone (including the US and Canada) needs to step up. There’s some early signs of significant economic disruption in Russia at the moment (inflation, interest rates, exchange rates etc) and they have at best another year before their economy starts to collapse internally.

    Rogan v Klitchko will get as many viewers as Rogan v Trump did, I hope it happens.
    Displaced people were offered more than $750. The $750 thing was a MAGA lie, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fema-hurricane-helene-relief-b2624786.html and many other sources.
    Thanks for pointing out that the $750 wasn’t automatic and had to be applied for, and also that *some* of the people affected *may* be able to claim other benefits.
    OMG, will you stop with the MAGA propaganda?

    Of course you have to apply for the money. That's how benefits generally work.

    A large amount of additional FEMA support was available for temporary housing, getting medical care, funeral costs, and the cost of damaged personal property.
    The result, for many Americans displaced by natural disasters, has been nothing but the $750.

    This goes back to the Maui fires nearly two years ago, where the displaced people got nothing bar that initial payment. Here’s the Biden admin boasting about the $5.6m (that’s million, not billion), that they spent on 2,000 displaced households. Call it $1k per person. Most of the other assistance that could be applied for, is in the form of loans. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/08/18/hawaii-news/fema-has-paid-out-more-than-5-6-million-to-maui-fire-survivors/

    Let’s not get into the FEMA official who was fired for telling aid workers to avoid houses showing signs of Trump support in Florida. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/fema-employee-trump-florida-hurricane/index.html

    There’s only one side caught continually lying here.
    The result, for many PBers displaced by wanting distraction from their day jobs, has been nothing but you regurgitating MAGA talking points.
    So back to the ad-hominem rather than actually addressing the points raised. Thanks.
    Think of it less as an ad-hominem and more as part of your 360° appraisal.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    There is also range anxiety, which should be less now but it takes a while for people's opinions to change. And if you can't charge at home they are not particularly cheap to run. And I presume rising interest rates means that lease deals are more expensive so people may have to go for a cheaper ICE car instead
    According to some YouTube guy I watched the other day, lease prices are increasing; the lenders are finding second-hand prices are not as high as they expected, so have increased the lease cost.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited November 27
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
    It's true that fuel duty as a proportion of disposable income is perhaps regressive, but that's a function of people being poor, not motoring being a poor man's game. Rich people drive 3x as much:


  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    Sandpit said:

    David Coote under FA gambling investigation after ‘discussing booking before match’

    Referee reportedly told friend ‘I hope you backed as discussed’ after he cautioned Leeds’ Ezgjan Alioski in Championship match in 2019

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/26/david-coote-fa-gambling-investigation-booking-leeds/

    He’s in a whole load of trouble if that quote is accurate.
    I'd caution he won't be getting his cards out this Christmas.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    An important point is that getting people to switch to EVs is not the same question as getting people to buy them.

    If you're in American suburbia and have plenty of space for charging at home then buying a second or third car that's an EV isn't such a big deal. If it's your only car then it needs to be able to handle everything you might ever want to do with it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
    It's true that fuel duty as a proportion of disposable income is perhaps regressive, but that's a function of people being poor, not motoring being a poor man's game. Rich people drive 3x as much:


    Where do you put the lorry drivers and the Amazon delivery people in that graph?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    Remember, the EV market is only the size it is here due to gov't tax breaks/subsidies.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
    It's true that fuel duty as a proportion of disposable income is perhaps regressive, but that's a function of people being poor, not motoring being a poor man's game. Rich people drive 3x as much:


    Its including vans, so that will be mostly plumbers in the rich group.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    This report fairly and squarely defined the reason why the Stellantis plant in Luton had to close. Just ignore the date.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295.amp
    Drivel. The article cites some potential problems which have since been resolved (rules of origin for electric cars) or never happened (tariffs).

    Stellantis are moving electric van work which would have happened at Luton up to Ellesmere port, and the diesel van work to an existing factory in France. Given they manufacture both Vauxhall and french brands of van at these factories - many for export, it's fairly clear they don't expect tariffs in either direction.

    "Stellantis said the decision has been ‘made within the context of the UK’s ZEV Mandate’, a government policy that dictates EVs must make up a certain percentage of carmakers’ sales each year. "

    But no, it's the Brexit!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    .

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    Licking shit of a shovel sounds…not good.
This discussion has been closed.