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Irish General Election Predictions [Part 2/2] Constituencies F – W – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    edited November 27

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs...
    Most of the manufacturers actually now realise this.

    But they ceded at least half a decade's head start to the Chinese, for fear of cannibalising their (not for much longer now) lucrative ICE manufacturing business.

    One or two are even now making respectable efforts to catch up.
    But the UK is pretty well nowhere in any of this.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
    It's true that fuel duty as a proportion of disposable income is perhaps regressive, but that's a function of people being poor, not motoring being a poor man's game. Rich people drive 3x as much:


    Counting people who don't own a car as "0 miles", or not?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,585
    edited November 27
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
    Fuel prices are lower today, in cash terms never mind real terms, than they were in 2012.
    Fuel duty has not kept pace with earnings inflation.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.

    I would have been more convinced by that report if it had omitted the people narrating it and telling me what to think, and the spooky background music.

  • 130 mps have asked to speak on the assisted dying bill and it must end within 5 hours

    The question is will opponents talk out the bill
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    What is really nuts is that there are some geniuses suggesting that we need to delay EV transition, as though setting less ambitious targets will magically make European manufacturers catch up. It will almost certainly have the opposite effect, and frankly the battle is probably already lost.
    Half of PB has been in the same state of denial as the western auto industry for the last decade.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 689
    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Number 1 is a problem, I had to buy a (second hand) ICE car because I didn't have enough for a new EV. I would probably have stretched myself and bought a new ICE car if the changeover wasn't coming. However my assumption is that over time batteries get cheaper and the cost comes down. But will over-reliance on China affect this?

    I agree on number 2, I'm also nervous on how long they last in general, if I buy a new car I expect to keep it for 12 years. I'm hoping that as technology improves, this ceases to be an issue and also in a few more years it will be clear how long even the older tech batteries last.

    On 3, the real issue for me is range. I want to be able to be sure to do my journey without the faff of finding a recharge point. My old Mondeo could do the Lake District and back on a single tank with some to spare, I'm now cursing that I have to stop to fill up on the way back with a slightly smaller petrol car. However the latest EVs are now doing 300 miles so this problem will go away eventually.

    3 is a also real issue for others without private off-road parking; I deliberately chose a house with off-road parking when I moved recently for this reason but only about 10% of the houses in the streets around where I have space to park.

    I suspect all these will slowly be fixed in time but the government should be doing much more on 3.

    Personally I don't care about 4!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited November 27
    carnforth said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
    It's true that fuel duty as a proportion of disposable income is perhaps regressive, but that's a function of people being poor, not motoring being a poor man's game. Rich people drive 3x as much:


    Counting people who don't own a car as "0 miles", or not?
    The former, I think. It's NTS0705.

    The same tables demonstrate just how important bus travel is for people on lower incomes, while cycling is associated with higher incomes (though not as stark as car driving). Rail is slightly more "regressive" than motoring, mainly because it's heavily weighted by rich people commuting into London.

    FWIW, my policy would be something like:
    • Tax new ICEs
    • Increase fuel duty
    • Abolish or half-rate fuel duty at rural fuel stations
    • Abolish VAT on ICE car repairs and maintenance
    • Perhaps some sort of free EV charging guarantee between 11pm and 6am for the next 5 years
    • Give councils £XX billion to invest in kerbside charging, with councils allowed to keep all revenues (as an incentive to actually do it, and to place them efficiently).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972


    130 mps have asked to speak on the assisted dying bill and it must end within 5 hours

    The question is will opponents talk out the bill

    Christopher Chope can happily talk for five hours straight.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405


    130 mps have asked to speak on the assisted dying bill and it must end within 5 hours

    The question is will opponents talk out the bill

    Can the speaker not limit everyone's time to talk ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    130 mps have asked to speak on the assisted dying bill and it must end within 5 hours

    The question is will opponents talk out the bill

    That would be a poor outcome.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 689
    edited November 27
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs...
    Most of the manufacturers actually now realise this.

    But they ceded at least half a decade's head start to the Chinese, for fear of cannibalising their (not for much longer now) lucrative ICE manufacturing business.

    One or two are even now making respectable efforts to catch up.
    But the UK is pretty well nowhere in any of this.
    Not really surprising the UK is nowhere, as there are no UK car manufacturers.

    We are probably better off looking at other industry sectors entirely where we haven't completely sold them off.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
    Fuel prices are lower today, in cash terms never mind real terms, than they were in 2012.
    Fuel duty has not kept pace with earnings inflation.
    Tbh it's THE main reason I voted Tory last election.
  • Pulpstar said:


    130 mps have asked to speak on the assisted dying bill and it must end within 5 hours

    The question is will opponents talk out the bill

    Can the speaker not limit everyone's time to talk ?
    I do not know, but someone with more parliamentary procedure knowledge may be able to respond
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,437
    Quite spectacularly, 1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0091 United States Dollar.

    This has been quite a collapse over the last few months, and especially the last few days. This *might* be getting to the point where it becomes significant in a larger sense.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    An important point is that getting people to switch to EVs is not the same question as getting people to buy them.

    If you're in American suburbia and have plenty of space for charging at home then buying a second or third car that's an EV isn't such a big deal. If it's your only car then it needs to be able to handle everything you might ever want to do with it.
    Morning all. It's not good here; just had to 'scoot' out and it's COLD.

    Scooter, though, is electric and I'm quite happy with it, although I'm still getting used to the battery life. Furthermore sometimes it says the battery is low-ish, but the next time I get on it that indicator says full.

    Secondly, I agree with Mr (should that be Squadron Leader?) Biggles, apart from his 4th point; I'm not one for powerful cars that go vroom! Certainly not nowadays, whatever applied OUAT.

    Son came to see us the other day in his electric car and couldn't do all the fetching and carrying we wanted 'because he didn't think he'd got enough charge'. Apparently too, the power to his house, in suburban Kent, isn't reliable enough to fully charge his battery. I suspect it's a teething problem with the his charging system, but I need reliability.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs...
    Most of the manufacturers actually now realise this.

    But they ceded at least half a decade's head start to the Chinese, for fear of cannibalising their (not for much longer now) lucrative ICE manufacturing business.

    One or two are even now making respectable efforts to catch up.
    But the UK is pretty well nowhere in any of this.
    Which is extremely fucking stupid, as we're probably the best placed country in the world for EV transition. Literally have free electricity overnight from excess wind, and we're going to end up with towards 60GW installed by 2030.
  • Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,422

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs...
    Most of the manufacturers actually now realise this.

    But they ceded at least half a decade's head start to the Chinese, for fear of cannibalising their (not for much longer now) lucrative ICE manufacturing business.

    One or two are even now making respectable efforts to catch up.
    But the UK is pretty well nowhere in any of this.
    Which is extremely fucking stupid, as we're probably the best placed country in the world for EV transition. Literally have free electricity overnight from excess wind, and we're going to end up with towards 60GW installed by 2030.
    Apparently we have 100GW in offshore wind in the development "pipeline".
  • Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Hi.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    On the other hand, Boris Johnson.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1861409212028592151

    As of now, if Ukraine had presidential elections, the following candidates would get a total of:

    Valeriy Zaluzhny (the former general-in-chief, now ambassador to Britain) - 42%
    Volodymyr Zelensky (the currently serving president) - 22%
    Kyrylo Budanov (the military intel head) - 18%
    Petro Poroshenko (the president in 2014-2019) - 10%
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Quite spectacularly, 1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0091 United States Dollar.

    This has been quite a collapse over the last few months, and especially the last few days. This *might* be getting to the point where it becomes significant in a larger sense.

    It’s 10% in a week, interest rates are heading for 30%, and inflation is supposedly 5-6% per month on most average household expenditure. The collapse of the Russian economy has been predicted many times, but it looks closer today than at any point in the past few years.

    A bit of American drilling to get the official oil price down near $50, and Putin’s screwed.
  • .

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    Licking shit of a shovel sounds…not good.
    Reminds me of what the teacher taking us for rugby at school said to me once
    " Alan, It doesn't matter if you can run like shit off hot shovel if you haven't got the bloody ball!"
    (said in a very Welsh accent)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.

    What is it like to attend this school?
    Pupils attending Whitefield school are happy, well cared for and kept safe. Pupils are
    treated with dignity and respect and enjoy positive relationships with adults. Staff
    are highly knowledgeable about working with the considerable range of varying
    needs.

    The school in question is https://www.whitefieldschool.org.uk/ , not to be confused with https://www.whitefield.barnet.sch.uk/
    Worth noting that this all came to light, I believe, because new management discovered the tapes and passed them to the police. So the bit you quoted may be accurate now.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    Sandpit said:

    Quite spectacularly, 1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0091 United States Dollar.

    This has been quite a collapse over the last few months, and especially the last few days. This *might* be getting to the point where it becomes significant in a larger sense.

    It’s 10% in a week, interest rates are heading for 30%, and inflation is supposedly 5-6% per month on most average household expenditure. The collapse of the Russian economy has been predicted many times, but it looks closer today than at any point in the past few years.

    A bit of American drilling to get the official oil price down near $50, and Putin’s screwed.
    Would the IMF bail out a country engaged in what Russia is engaged in? And what would happen if they didn't?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1861409212028592151

    As of now, if Ukraine had presidential elections, the following candidates would get a total of:

    Valeriy Zaluzhny (the former general-in-chief, now ambassador to Britain) - 42%
    Volodymyr Zelensky (the currently serving president) - 22%
    Kyrylo Budanov (the military intel head) - 18%
    Petro Poroshenko (the president in 2014-2019) - 10%
    What are Zaluzhny's thoughts on the war ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    edited November 27

    The Canadian government expects 4.9 million people to leave voluntarily when their visas expire.

    The UK faces a similar question over the people given visas by Boris Johnson’s government. If they are not renewed then a lot of people will need to leave.

    https://torontosun.com/news/national/feds-expect-4-9-million-with-expiring-visas-to-voluntarily-leave-canada-in-next-year

    They won't leave, because there's an entire legal industry that will use the law (at the taxpayer's expense) to prevent them having to leave. Modern slavery, sudden conversion to Christianity (home country Muslim), realisation of being gay (home country Muslim). Rates of return for visa overstayers are through the floor.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Half of PB has been in the same state of denial as the western auto industry for the last decade.

    What really gets me is that we've seen it all before with Japan, and South Korea. "They'll never catch up, as they can't innovate, they don't have our Western mindset." Absolute bloody nonsense, and basically racist to boot.

    I remember I think it was Peter Jay doing a programme about BYD years ago. The premiss was "this company you have never heard of is going to be absolutely massive", and it wasn't even really about EVs, simply the sheer scale of Chinese investment in automotive manufacturing was going to change the global market.
    The Chinese cars are now pretty much as close to the Korean cars, as those are to the Japanese cars; and with a similar price difference, around 20% between each country. They’re cleaning up the market in my part of the world right now, among those who see a car as transport rather than a status symbol.

    Where the Chinese are totally dominating is the new electric cars, which are close to half the price of anything else. Don’t know how long they’ll last or be supported, what they’ll be worth second-hand, or if the range numbers given are accurate, but that’s not stopping the sales.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    An important point is that getting people to switch to EVs is not the same question as getting people to buy them.

    If you're in American suburbia and have plenty of space for charging at home then buying a second or third car that's an EV isn't such a big deal. If it's your only car then it needs to be able to handle everything you might ever want to do with it.
    Morning all. It's not good here; just had to 'scoot' out and it's COLD.

    Scooter, though, is electric and I'm quite happy with it, although I'm still getting used to the battery life. Furthermore sometimes it says the battery is low-ish, but the next time I get on it that indicator says full.

    Secondly, I agree with Mr (should that be Squadron Leader?) Biggles, apart from his 4th point; I'm not one for powerful cars that go vroom! Certainly not nowadays, whatever applied OUAT.

    Son came to see us the other day in his electric car and couldn't do all the fetching and carrying we wanted 'because he didn't think he'd got enough charge'. Apparently too, the power to his house, in suburban Kent, isn't reliable enough to fully charge his battery. I suspect it's a teething problem with the his charging system, but I need reliability.
    When batteries are cold, they often have apparently reduced capacity. Using a battery warms it up.

    Tesla were one of the first to implement, in cars, the known facts on battery temperature vs performance/life. By implementing an activity controlled cooling/warming system.

    As to your son - either he hasn't installed a high power charger (charging off a normal mains socket will take forever) or he has an electrical problem in his house. Which needs fixing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    How are you defining success?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    Sandpit said:


    130 mps have asked to speak on the assisted dying bill and it must end within 5 hours

    The question is will opponents talk out the bill

    Christopher Chope can happily talk for five hours straight.
    Its actually five minutes, it just feels very much like five hours.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,422
    Pulpstar said:

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1861409212028592151

    As of now, if Ukraine had presidential elections, the following candidates would get a total of:

    Valeriy Zaluzhny (the former general-in-chief, now ambassador to Britain) - 42%
    Volodymyr Zelensky (the currently serving president) - 22%
    Kyrylo Budanov (the military intel head) - 18%
    Petro Poroshenko (the president in 2014-2019) - 10%
    What are Zaluzhny's thoughts on the war ?
    It's unknown if he would actually stand in an election. I don't think he'd represent any change from Ukraine's current war aims.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    .

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    Licking shit of a shovel sounds…not good.
    Reminds me of what the teacher taking us for rugby at school said to me once
    " Alan, It doesn't matter if you can run like shit off hot shovel if you haven't got the bloody ball!"
    (said in a very Welsh accent)
    Followed up by: "No offence, Alan"?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,437
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Half of PB has been in the same state of denial as the western auto industry for the last decade.

    What really gets me is that we've seen it all before with Japan, and South Korea. "They'll never catch up, as they can't innovate, they don't have our Western mindset." Absolute bloody nonsense, and basically racist to boot.

    (Snip)
    If you are an embedded giant, change can seem rather daunting and risky. Why change, if the profits are rolling in? The risks in not changing seem fewer, and of lesser magnitude, than the risks of change. And the risks of not changing are further in the future, when you've moved on, or have got your pension out of the company.

    Which is why smaller companies, more willing to take risks, find to much easier to innovate. The risks are greater, but there is less to lose.

    A few large companies do manage to successfully embrace change: I'd argue Microsoft has, and IBM has several times. I'm unsure how Google's going to go; which is odd, given how they seem to try everything.

    Then there's disruption. In shipbuilding, the growth in ship sizes post-war was a disruption that, more than anything else, destroyed British shipbuilding. In vehicles, there is the disruption of the move from ICE to electric. Disruptions are Manna from Heaven for small, risk-embracing organisations. They're dreaded by the massive incumbents.

    Now, the Japanese and South Koreans are the massive incumbents, whereas once they were the risk-taking minnows.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    .

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    Licking shit of a shovel sounds…not good.
    Reminds me of what the teacher taking us for rugby at school said to me once
    " Alan, It doesn't matter if you can run like shit off hot shovel if you haven't got the bloody ball!"
    (said in a very Welsh accent)
    Reminds of a guy I knew at Uni. With ball in hand he was amazing, and easily first XV standard (and in those days we played the top clubs U21 sides such as London Irish etc). The problem he had was that he simply couldn't catch a rugby ball. It was embarrassingly bad. But if he did ever catch that pass he was amazing.

    Only ever played in the 3rds.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Sandpit said:

    Quite spectacularly, 1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0091 United States Dollar.

    This has been quite a collapse over the last few months, and especially the last few days. This *might* be getting to the point where it becomes significant in a larger sense.

    It’s 10% in a week, interest rates are heading for 30%, and inflation is supposedly 5-6% per month on most average household expenditure. The collapse of the Russian economy has been predicted many times, but it looks closer today than at any point in the past few years.

    A bit of American drilling to get the official oil price down near $50, and Putin’s screwed.
    I'm a bit surprised by the Saudis. They can't be happy with Russia cosying up to Iran and perhaps even the Houthis. What are they and Egypt doing about the Red Sea?

    I wonder if they are waiting for Biden to go before pumping more oil?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,422

    The Canadian government expects 4.9 million people to leave voluntarily when their visas expire.

    The UK faces a similar question over the people given visas by Boris Johnson’s government. If they are not renewed then a lot of people will need to leave.

    https://torontosun.com/news/national/feds-expect-4-9-million-with-expiring-visas-to-voluntarily-leave-canada-in-next-year

    They won't leave, because there's an entire legal industry that will use the law (at the taxpayer's expense) to prevent them having to leave. Modern slavery, sudden conversion to Christianity (home country Muslim), realisation of being gay (home country Muslim). Rates of return for visa overstayers are through the floor.
    The Conservative government was, yes, very poor at deporting anyone.

    I don't see any actual evidence to back up this claim around visa overstayers making claims around slavery/religion/sexuality in large numbers.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    But they don’t go VROOOM….
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    How are you defining success?
    He prevented his country being deleted - the original Russian war aim was to take the whole country. People were offering him a helicopter to get out before Russians got to the Presidential building.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,422

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    How are you defining success?
    a) Proportion of contested Presidential elections the individual has won.

    b) Respect from PBers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Pulpstar said:

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1861409212028592151

    As of now, if Ukraine had presidential elections, the following candidates would get a total of:

    Valeriy Zaluzhny (the former general-in-chief, now ambassador to Britain) - 42%
    Volodymyr Zelensky (the currently serving president) - 22%
    Kyrylo Budanov (the military intel head) - 18%
    Petro Poroshenko (the president in 2014-2019) - 10%
    What are Zaluzhny's thoughts on the war ?
    He fell out with Zelensky earlier this year.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/europe/zaluzhnyi-ukraine-military-chief-dismissed-intl/index.html

    Zaluzhny’s view was that Ukraine needed to draft more men and find more equipment if they wanted to avoid a stalemate.
  • William Hague elected as next Chancellor of Oxford University
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    But they don’t go VROOOM….
    They do if you fit the appropriate loudspeakers.

    (Not unlike model trains in the modern age, with DCC and cab sounds fitted)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,676

    .

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    Licking shit of a shovel sounds…not good.
    Reminds me of what the teacher taking us for rugby at school said to me once
    " Alan, It doesn't matter if you can run like shit off hot shovel if you haven't got the bloody ball!"
    (said in a very Welsh accent)
    Sounds familiar. It wasn't Elwyn Price was it?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    How are you defining success?
    a) Proportion of contested Presidential elections the individual has won.

    b) Respect from PBers.
    c) Number of roles played as a loveable bear
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    But they don’t go VROOOM….
    That becomes the driver's job :wink:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    Or, indeed, and rather more successfully, Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
    How are you defining success?
    a) Proportion of contested Presidential elections the individual has won.

    b) Respect from PBers.
    Trump - contested 3, won 2. Not bad. Zelensky - contested 1, won 1 very good!
    However - Trump - refused to leave after his term was up - bad. Zelensky is still in power after his term - good.
    PBers don't know shit.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    Why is a failure to raise fuel duty incoherent? It’s one of the most regressive taxes of them all*, feeds into inflation more than any other tax, and mostly affects those with working-class jobs working shifts or in rural areas.

    Politicians fail to understand that the only place you’ll find the public transport system of cenral London, is central London.

    *just behind the TV licence.
    Fuel prices are lower today, in cash terms never mind real terms, than they were in 2012.
    Fuel duty has not kept pace with earnings inflation.
    Good. The cost of fuel directly affects the cost of living and inflation more than any other single factor in the economy. Governments need to reduce energy costs as much as possible to enable economic growth, it’s not good that Ed Miliband takes the opposite approach but he still couldn’t persuade the Chancellor to raise fuel duty.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Selebian said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    But they don’t go VROOOM….
    That becomes the driver's job :wink:
    Joking aside, I do think electric cars need a breakout model which has a bit of romance attached. Iconic Aston in a Bond film or something. A week ago I’d have said that was a gap in the market for Jaguar….
  • .

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    Licking shit of a shovel sounds…not good.
    Reminds me of what the teacher taking us for rugby at school said to me once
    " Alan, It doesn't matter if you can run like shit off hot shovel if you haven't got the bloody ball!"
    (said in a very Welsh accent)
    Michael Owen has opined that nowadays, running or sprinting is more important than ball skills in modern football.

    Btw the 90s/00s player who ran more than anyone else during a game by huge margins was... David Beckham.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Quite spectacularly, 1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0091 United States Dollar.

    This has been quite a collapse over the last few months, and especially the last few days. This *might* be getting to the point where it becomes significant in a larger sense.

    It’s 10% in a week, interest rates are heading for 30%, and inflation is supposedly 5-6% per month on most average household expenditure. The collapse of the Russian economy has been predicted many times, but it looks closer today than at any point in the past few years.

    A bit of American drilling to get the official oil price down near $50, and Putin’s screwed.
    I'm a bit surprised by the Saudis. They can't be happy with Russia cosying up to Iran and perhaps even the Houthis. What are they and Egypt doing about the Red Sea?

    I wonder if they are waiting for Biden to go before pumping more oil?
    The Saudis just passed a government budget with a $27bn deficit, they’re frantically trying to do Dubai on steroids and need the oil price high.

    A lot of the US production, which can be expected to increase this year, also needs prices above around $60 to be viable.

    Today’s price is $73 though, so there’s an amount of headroom.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,316

    William Hague elected as next Chancellor of Oxford University

    ... with over 50 per cent of the votes cast.

    Loose talk about Mandy combining the chancellorship with the Washington embassy would have been fatal.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    biggles said:

    Selebian said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    But they don’t go VROOOM….
    That becomes the driver's job :wink:
    Joking aside, I do think electric cars need a breakout model which has a bit of romance attached. Iconic Aston in a Bond film or something. A week ago I’d have said that was a gap in the market for Jaguar….
    Could still be, but they'll need an effing good car!

    Put it this way, the ad would not put me off Jaguar. It does nothing to entice me either, but I'd be more bothered about the actual car. The problem they have is that, if the car is meh, then they may simply have lost a chunk of the market who habitually buy Jags for the image.

    (Not that I'm going to be in the market - our current highly exciting Alhambra is likely to be replaced by an even more exciting van in the next year or so :cry: )
  • Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    On the other hand, Boris Johnson.
    Comparisons are drawn, although they do not really count Boris as a celebrity, between the journalism backgrounds of Boris & Clarkson.

    It is also suggested that politics is far more open now, witness Reform's 4 million votes but also that even in the old parties it can be a very short greasy pole. Starmer was MP for just five years before leading his party; Cameron similar.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 27
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Half of PB has been in the same state of denial as the western auto industry for the last decade.

    What really gets me is that we've seen it all before with Japan, and South Korea. "They'll never catch up, as they can't innovate, they don't have our Western mindset." Absolute bloody nonsense, and basically racist to boot.

    I remember I think it was Peter Jay doing a programme about BYD years ago. The premiss was "this company you have never heard of is going to be absolutely massive", and it wasn't even really about EVs, simply the sheer scale of Chinese investment in automotive manufacturing was going to change the global market.
    BYD have a million employees now....

    Huawei had their a launch event yesterday that none of the Western media covered...everything from phones with functionality that no Western phone has to self driving cars.

    https://x.com/TaylorOgan/status/1861273322627244451
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    An important point is that getting people to switch to EVs is not the same question as getting people to buy them.

    If you're in American suburbia and have plenty of space for charging at home then buying a second or third car that's an EV isn't such a big deal. If it's your only car then it needs to be able to handle everything you might ever want to do with it.
    Morning all. It's not good here; just had to 'scoot' out and it's COLD.

    Scooter, though, is electric and I'm quite happy with it, although I'm still getting used to the battery life. Furthermore sometimes it says the battery is low-ish, but the next time I get on it that indicator says full.

    Secondly, I agree with Mr (should that be Squadron Leader?) Biggles, apart from his 4th point; I'm not one for powerful cars that go vroom! Certainly not nowadays, whatever applied OUAT.

    Son came to see us the other day in his electric car and couldn't do all the fetching and carrying we wanted 'because he didn't think he'd got enough charge'. Apparently too, the power to his house, in suburban Kent, isn't reliable enough to fully charge his battery. I suspect it's a teething problem with the his charging system, but I need reliability.
    When batteries are cold, they often have apparently reduced capacity. Using a battery warms it up.

    Tesla were one of the first to implement, in cars, the known facts on battery temperature vs performance/life. By implementing an activity controlled cooling/warming system.

    As to your son - either he hasn't installed a high power charger (charging off a normal mains socket will take forever) or he has an electrical problem in his house. Which needs fixing.
    That's what I thought about the batteries but the 'full' light comes on when I switch on, even though when I finished my ride a day before it was showing half full or less.
    My son has indeed an electrical problem in his house, which his supplier has supposed to have fixed, but hasn't. There is, I believe, an on going 'discussion', which, since he's a electronics engineer, I suspect he will win.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Selebian said:

    biggles said:

    Selebian said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    But they don’t go VROOOM….
    That becomes the driver's job :wink:
    Joking aside, I do think electric cars need a breakout model which has a bit of romance attached. Iconic Aston in a Bond film or something. A week ago I’d have said that was a gap in the market for Jaguar….
    Could still be, but they'll need an effing good car!

    Put it this way, the ad would not put me off Jaguar. It does nothing to entice me either, but I'd be more bothered about the actual car. The problem they have is that, if the car is meh, then they may simply have lost a chunk of the market who habitually buy Jags for the image.

    (Not that I'm going to be in the market - our current highly exciting Alhambra is likely to be replaced by an even more exciting van in the next year or so :cry: )
    The problem is that Jaguar are targeting the $100k EV market.

    Right now, that market has two dominant players, Tesla and Porsche. The former is selling itself as the fastest accelerating car in the world, and selling to mostly American 1/4 mile enthusiasts who like beating McLarens down the strip. The latter is selling to CEOs and track-day enthusiasts who want the best EV possible.

    Good luck to Jaguar with either of those markets, starting from five years behind. They’ll need all the luck they can get. There’s only a few thousand Hollywood types who will show any interest in their current marketing campaign, and they’re all people who will expect a free one under some social media contract rather than buy or lease it themselves.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    On the other hand, Boris Johnson.
    Comparisons are drawn, although they do not really count Boris as a celebrity, between the journalism backgrounds of Boris & Clarkson.

    It is also suggested that politics is far more open now, witness Reform's 4 million votes but also that even in the old parties it can be a very short greasy pole. Starmer was MP for just five years before leading his party; Cameron similar.
    I don't have a high opinion of the leadership abilities of either Cameron or Starmer.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Quite spectacularly, 1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0091 United States Dollar.

    This has been quite a collapse over the last few months, and especially the last few days. This *might* be getting to the point where it becomes significant in a larger sense.

    It’s 10% in a week, interest rates are heading for 30%, and inflation is supposedly 5-6% per month on most average household expenditure. The collapse of the Russian economy has been predicted many times, but it looks closer today than at any point in the past few years.

    A bit of American drilling to get the official oil price down near $50, and Putin’s screwed.
    Would the IMF bail out a country engaged in what Russia is engaged in? And what would happen if they didn't?
    Nope, no IMF bailout for military adventures. They could conceiveably be bailed out in defeat though.

    Russia is still pretty much self-sufficient in basics such as food and energy, if there’s the political will to not sell food and oil abroad.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    William Hague elected as next Chancellor of Oxford University

    Oh Mandy, so he came and he said he would do it. But they sent him away.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    Am I missing something with PMQ?

    Why was Daisy (LD Deputy Leader?) first, before Kemikaze, or was that just the stars of chance aligning?
  • Jeremy Clarkson For Prime Minister?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ztzpc0eWk

    The Rest is Entertainment (not Politics) examines whether a celebrity could become Prime Minister, as Trump has in America.

    On the other hand, Boris Johnson.
    Comparisons are drawn, although they do not really count Boris as a celebrity, between the journalism backgrounds of Boris & Clarkson.

    It is also suggested that politics is far more open now, witness Reform's 4 million votes but also that even in the old parties it can be a very short greasy pole. Starmer was MP for just five years before leading his party; Cameron similar.
    I don't have a high opinion of the leadership abilities of either Cameron or Starmer.
    Also interesting in light of Kamala's defeat was the notion of bundling beliefs (so that if you think X you must also think Y and Z or you are wrong) especially on the left, and that real voters are not like that, hence huge support for both gay rights and the death penalty. Recently others have said the same.

    What I'd not heard before was Marina's suggestion that inter-class interactions are common in the countryside whereas cities are more stratified. I'd need to think about that.
  • PJH said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs...
    Most of the manufacturers actually now realise this.

    But they ceded at least half a decade's head start to the Chinese, for fear of cannibalising their (not for much longer now) lucrative ICE manufacturing business.

    One or two are even now making respectable efforts to catch up.
    But the UK is pretty well nowhere in any of this.
    Not really surprising the UK is nowhere, as there are no UK car manufacturers.

    We are probably better off looking at other industry sectors entirely where we haven't completely sold them off.
    There may be no British car makers but an awful lot of cars are made here (well, pace the Luton closures just announced).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    edited November 27

    The Canadian government expects 4.9 million people to leave voluntarily when their visas expire.

    The UK faces a similar question over the people given visas by Boris Johnson’s government. If they are not renewed then a lot of people will need to leave.

    https://torontosun.com/news/national/feds-expect-4-9-million-with-expiring-visas-to-voluntarily-leave-canada-in-next-year

    They won't leave, because there's an entire legal industry that will use the law (at the taxpayer's expense) to prevent them having to leave. Modern slavery, sudden conversion to Christianity (home country Muslim), realisation of being gay (home country Muslim). Rates of return for visa overstayers are through the floor.
    The Conservative government was, yes, very poor at deporting anyone.

    I don't see any actual evidence to back up this claim around visa overstayers making claims around slavery/religion/sexuality in large numbers.
    The Conservatives were very poor on immigration, as you will have found me saying both at the time and since. However, Conservative Home Secretaries also existed within an ever-growing thicket of laws (May's modern slavery law amongst them) whose increasing use makes operating the immigration system effectively an impossibility. The Tories did fail to grasp the nettle, leave the ECHR, reform the Human Rights Act, repeal the Modern Slavery Act, but would you be a fan of that?

    I feel what you're really trying to say is that deportation/returns figures are what they are because Suella Braverman forgot to ask the Home Office to deport people because she's stooopid. Which is glib nonsense.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945

    The Canadian government expects 4.9 million people to leave voluntarily when their visas expire.

    The UK faces a similar question over the people given visas by Boris Johnson’s government. If they are not renewed then a lot of people will need to leave.

    https://torontosun.com/news/national/feds-expect-4-9-million-with-expiring-visas-to-voluntarily-leave-canada-in-next-year

    Here's a prediction: 95% of them won't leave.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Quite spectacularly, 1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0091 United States Dollar.

    This has been quite a collapse over the last few months, and especially the last few days. This *might* be getting to the point where it becomes significant in a larger sense.

    It’s 10% in a week, interest rates are heading for 30%, and inflation is supposedly 5-6% per month on most average household expenditure. The collapse of the Russian economy has been predicted many times, but it looks closer today than at any point in the past few years.

    A bit of American drilling to get the official oil price down near $50, and Putin’s screwed.
    I'm a bit surprised by the Saudis. They can't be happy with Russia cosying up to Iran and perhaps even the Houthis. What are they and Egypt doing about the Red Sea?

    I wonder if they are waiting for Biden to go before pumping more oil?
    The Saudis just passed a government budget with a $27bn deficit, they’re frantically trying to do Dubai on steroids and need the oil price high.

    A lot of the US production, which can be expected to increase this year, also needs prices above around $60 to be viable.

    Today’s price is $73 though, so there’s an amount of headroom.
    What do they do with all their military spending? Any ships in the Red Sea? Likewise Egypt.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.

    What is it like to attend this school?
    Pupils attending Whitefield school are happy, well cared for and kept safe. Pupils are
    treated with dignity and respect and enjoy positive relationships with adults. Staff
    are highly knowledgeable about working with the considerable range of varying
    needs.

    The school in question is https://www.whitefieldschool.org.uk/ , not to be confused with https://www.whitefield.barnet.sch.uk/
    You'd like to think that the people responsible for that report would be sacked but they are more likely to be promoted.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Quite spectacularly, 1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0091 United States Dollar.

    This has been quite a collapse over the last few months, and especially the last few days. This *might* be getting to the point where it becomes significant in a larger sense.

    It’s 10% in a week, interest rates are heading for 30%, and inflation is supposedly 5-6% per month on most average household expenditure. The collapse of the Russian economy has been predicted many times, but it looks closer today than at any point in the past few years.

    A bit of American drilling to get the official oil price down near $50, and Putin’s screwed.
    I'm a bit surprised by the Saudis. They can't be happy with Russia cosying up to Iran and perhaps even the Houthis. What are they and Egypt doing about the Red Sea?

    I wonder if they are waiting for Biden to go before pumping more oil?
    The Saudis just passed a government budget with a $27bn deficit, they’re frantically trying to do Dubai on steroids and need the oil price high.

    A lot of the US production, which can be expected to increase this year, also needs prices above around $60 to be viable.

    Today’s price is $73 though, so there’s an amount of headroom.
    What do they do with all their military spending? Any ships in the Red Sea? Likewise Egypt.
    Mostly watching Yemen and Iran.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    Andy_JS said:

    The Canadian government expects 4.9 million people to leave voluntarily when their visas expire.

    The UK faces a similar question over the people given visas by Boris Johnson’s government. If they are not renewed then a lot of people will need to leave.

    https://torontosun.com/news/national/feds-expect-4-9-million-with-expiring-visas-to-voluntarily-leave-canada-in-next-year

    Here's a prediction: 95% of them won't leave.
    Actually, I think the vast majority will leave.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    edited November 27
    Bradford.

    Does anyone have a handle on how it has improved over the last 20 years or so?

    I last spent time there in the 1990s, and it was still auto-hoon central. Driving standards (especially for buses approaching Zebras) were terrible, and that is still so (I am told).

    But I saw a presentation yesterday about much work having been done, or being done, over quite a short period of time, in a very wholistic fashion. Especially involving taming or removal of big dual carriageways through the city centre, which is in a dip surrounded by hills - a similar theme to Nottingham. With major effects on air quality, and how it has enabled life outside buildings, for example, to increase due to fewer exhaust fumes blanketing the city centre.

    Seems to be impressive.

    https://www.future-bradford.co.uk/city-centre/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.

    What is it like to attend this school?
    Pupils attending Whitefield school are happy, well cared for and kept safe. Pupils are
    treated with dignity and respect and enjoy positive relationships with adults. Staff
    are highly knowledgeable about working with the considerable range of varying
    needs.

    The school in question is https://www.whitefieldschool.org.uk/ , not to be confused with https://www.whitefield.barnet.sch.uk/
    You'd like to think that the people responsible for that report would be sacked but they are more likely to be promoted.
    What's the background here? Is this a demonising report after the problems have been addressed?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,316

    PJH said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs...
    Most of the manufacturers actually now realise this.

    But they ceded at least half a decade's head start to the Chinese, for fear of cannibalising their (not for much longer now) lucrative ICE manufacturing business.

    One or two are even now making respectable efforts to catch up.
    But the UK is pretty well nowhere in any of this.
    Not really surprising the UK is nowhere, as there are no UK car manufacturers.

    We are probably better off looking at other industry sectors entirely where we haven't completely sold them off.
    There may be no British car makers but an awful lot of cars are made here (well, pace the Luton closures just announced).
    The Edison Home in Fort Myers, Fl, is worth a visit. One hundred years ago old Thomas Edison and his neighbour young Henry Ford would chew the fat about the future of the car industry. They were particularly concerned about the rubber supply because British colonies in Malaya had a virtual monopoly which Edison and Ford believed the UK would struggle to defend in the long term. So they embarked on an experiment to a sow a field of Golden Rod to extract latex to make tyres. It didn't work. Whether this means they were far-sighted, alarmist or just plain daft is an exercise for the reader but it illustrates the tricky decisions car industry futurologists often have to make.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.

    What is it like to attend this school?
    Pupils attending Whitefield school are happy, well cared for and kept safe. Pupils are
    treated with dignity and respect and enjoy positive relationships with adults. Staff
    are highly knowledgeable about working with the considerable range of varying
    needs.

    The school in question is https://www.whitefieldschool.org.uk/ , not to be confused with https://www.whitefield.barnet.sch.uk/
    You'd like to think that the people responsible for that report would be sacked but they are more likely to be promoted.
    What's the background here? Is this a demonising report after the problems have been addressed?
    My understanding (and I may have got it wrong, I am simply relying on what was reported on here) is that the BBC has footage of children with special needs being treated in a vile way but that the last inspection report contained the nonsense quoted above. Yet another example of a tick box report that gives (in this case) a dangerously misleading description of what being at the school is like.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.

    What is it like to attend this school?
    Pupils attending Whitefield school are happy, well cared for and kept safe. Pupils are
    treated with dignity and respect and enjoy positive relationships with adults. Staff
    are highly knowledgeable about working with the considerable range of varying
    needs.

    The school in question is https://www.whitefieldschool.org.uk/ , not to be confused with https://www.whitefield.barnet.sch.uk/
    You'd like to think that the people responsible for that report would be sacked but they are more likely to be promoted.
    What's the background here? Is this a demonising report after the problems have been addressed?
    Have you not encountered the JoyJoy organisation known as OFSTED?

    What is your boggle, citizen?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,437

    PJH said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs...
    Most of the manufacturers actually now realise this.

    But they ceded at least half a decade's head start to the Chinese, for fear of cannibalising their (not for much longer now) lucrative ICE manufacturing business.

    One or two are even now making respectable efforts to catch up.
    But the UK is pretty well nowhere in any of this.
    Not really surprising the UK is nowhere, as there are no UK car manufacturers.

    We are probably better off looking at other industry sectors entirely where we haven't completely sold them off.
    There may be no British car makers but an awful lot of cars are made here (well, pace the Luton closures just announced).
    The Edison Home in Fort Myers, Fl, is worth a visit. One hundred years ago old Thomas Edison and his neighbour young Henry Ford would chew the fat about the future of the car industry. They were particularly concerned about the rubber supply because British colonies in Malaya had a virtual monopoly which Edison and Ford believed the UK would struggle to defend in the long term. So they embarked on an experiment to a sow a field of Golden Rod to extract latex to make tyres. It didn't work. Whether this means they were far-sighted, alarmist or just plain daft is an exercise for the reader but it illustrates the tricky decisions car industry futurologists often have to make.
    There's a very good 'Forbidden Engineering' episode covering Fordlândia in Brazil.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordlândia

    "The land was hilly, rocky and infertile. None of Ford's managers had the requisite knowledge of tropical agriculture. In the wild, the rubber trees grow apart from each other as a protection mechanism against plagues and diseases, often growing close to bigger trees of other species for added support. In Fordlândia, however, the trees were planted close together in plantations, easy prey for tree blight, Saúva ants, lace bugs, red spiders, and leaf caterpillars."
  • MattW said:

    Bradford.

    Does anyone have a handle on how it has improved over the last 20 years or so?

    I last spent time there in the 1990s, and it was still auto-hoon central. Driving standards (especially for buses approaching Zebras) were terrible, and that is still so (I am told).

    But I saw a presentation yesterday about much work having been done, or being done, over quite a short period of time, in a very wholistic fashion. Especially involving taming or removal of big dual carriageways through the town centre - a similar theme to Nottingham. With major effects on air quality, and how it has enabled life outside buildings, for example, to increase due to fewer exhaust fumes blanketing the city centre.

    Seems to be impressive.

    https://www.future-bradford.co.uk/city-centre/

    EVs will see off exhaust fumes (if not tyre dust) and – as a pedestrian – am suspicious of pedestrianisation, especially as the graphics show a cyclist there too.

    And here I can no longer get the electric bus to the pedestrianised town centre to shop at Marks & Spencer because that store has just closed. Sidebar: electric buses are great.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    edited November 27
    If anyone is bothered...

    "I am pleased to announce that our new Chancellor will be Lord Hague of Richmond, having achieved over 50% of the votes in the final stage of the election."

    No dice for Mandelson in Oxford.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978


    130 mps have asked to speak on the assisted dying bill and it must end within 5 hours

    The question is will opponents talk out the bill

    The Chopemeister General's time has come.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    BYD have a million employees now....

    Huawei had their a launch event yesterday that none of the Western media covered...everything from phones with functionality that no Western phone has to self driving cars.

    https://x.com/TaylorOgan/status/1861273322627244451

    When the iPad Pro with a tandem OLED came out I was telling people online that Apple didn't invent it, and there were already Chinese smartphones with tandem OLED screens; as well as Si anode batteries, LIDAR auto-focus etc. The most high-tech phone is generally not from Apple or Samsung. Some crazy bunch of engineers in China is trying to figure out how then can one up some other crazy bunch of engineers in China by being first to ship some new piece of tech. That it results in a very expensive luxury device with a relatively small production runs doesn't matter, being first and the bragging rights is what matters.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    If anyone is bothered...

    "I am pleased to announce that our new Chancellor will be Lord Hague of Richmond, having achieved over 50% of the votes in the final stage of the election."

    No dice for Mandelson in Oxford.

    Identical wording to the email I just got so you must have received the same one. Hague was the hot favourite.
    I wonder what benefit being the chancellor brings. Aside from the prestige. I've not looked at what the stipend is but I assume they don't do it for the money. Maybe it is just the prestige. And being invited to interesting events.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,437
    1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0089 United States Dollar.

    It's quite fun watching this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    PJH said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    Not just a British problem either (although ‘jaguar’ are trying their best).

    https://x.com/fongern_fx/status/1861027003375206890

    VW, profits slump by 64%.
    Audi, profits slump by 91%.
    BMW, profits slump by 84%.
    Mercedes-Benz, profits slump by 54%.

    Germany's core industry is staring into the abyss.
    Yep, entirely Ed Milliband's fault that the Chinese are destroying the european car industry.

    I think it fair to say that most of the Western car industry carefully, steadily and effectively screwed the pooch.

    A large chunk of this was the determination not to invest in batteries, when it came clear that batteries had won the war to power ZEVs...
    Most of the manufacturers actually now realise this.

    But they ceded at least half a decade's head start to the Chinese, for fear of cannibalising their (not for much longer now) lucrative ICE manufacturing business.

    One or two are even now making respectable efforts to catch up.
    But the UK is pretty well nowhere in any of this.
    Not really surprising the UK is nowhere, as there are no UK car manufacturers.

    We are probably better off looking at other industry sectors entirely where we haven't completely sold them off.
    No, we need a domestic industry, even if foreign owned.
    Up until recently, our strength was in engine manufacturing (which produced in numbers significantly larger than actual vehicles).
    That's going to virtually disappear, this decade.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,399
    edited November 27
    MattW said:

    Am I missing something with PMQ?

    Why was Daisy (LD Deputy Leader?) first, before Kemikaze, or was that just the stars of chance aligning?

    Probably just chance (as unless leaders are absent, Deputy leader means nothing). Kemi is never on first.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Revolting weather this morning seems to be giving way to a modicum of brightness in the sky. Such are the micro-happinesses of life in November Britain.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978

    If anyone is bothered...

    "I am pleased to announce that our new Chancellor will be Lord Hague of Richmond, having achieved over 50% of the votes in the final stage of the election."

    No dice for Mandelson.

    He'd be ideal as our man in the USA.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Recent recruits must be panicking since Trump's election.

    Trump’s return raises questions over future of CIA’s Russian recruitment drive
    Intelligence agency has been trying to entice Russians disaffected by invasion of Ukraine but president-elect is likely to want to make an ally of Kremlin
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/27/trumps-return-raises-questions-over-future-of-cia-russian-recruitment-drive
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    TimS said:

    If anyone is bothered...

    "I am pleased to announce that our new Chancellor will be Lord Hague of Richmond, having achieved over 50% of the votes in the final stage of the election."

    No dice for Mandelson in Oxford.

    Identical wording to the email I just got so you must have received the same one. Hague was the hot favourite.
    I wonder what benefit being the chancellor brings. Aside from the prestige. I've not looked at what the stipend is but I assume they don't do it for the money. Maybe it is just the prestige. And being invited to interesting events.
    Probably alleviates the boredom if nothing else, and as you suggest, gets you on some invitation lists.

    Quite pleased it wasn't Dracula.

    Must be a first for Wath-on-Dearne.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978
    Has anyone given any thought to how the electricity will be generated to power this new fleet of EV cars that will be tearing up and down the country.

    Especially in winter when those batteries will be less efficient and have more demands for the power - lights, heating, demisting etc etc.

    A few more offshore wind turbines ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    1 Russian Ruble now equals 0.0089 United States Dollar.

    It's quite fun watching this.

    Though it does mean that all their USD-denominated oil and metal ore exports will go further in paying soldiers and domestic munitions factories.
  • Barnesian said:

    .

    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Good morning. Thanks to the Daily Mail I now know that it is Labour's fault that the EV sales mandates set by the Tories are unachievable.

    There is something distasteful about legislation which fines manufacturers because their customers want, or don't want, to buy particular numbers of a lawful product.
    The trouble is the alternative is some sort of taxation on ICE cars (an effective subsidy for EVs), which most voters would be extremely pissed about. Hence the tax rise on employer NICs rather than income tax, and the incoherent freezing of fuel duty.
    I think the work needs to be done on why people are resistant to move to EVs. Needs a proper survey but speaking for myself:

    1) Nice ones aren’t cheap, especially vs. nearly new normal cars - Gvt can help by subsidising if we want to increase take up.

    2) I am nervous of second hand batteries. More so than of engines. I might need educating.

    3) I am not convinced the recharging infrastructure is in place and don’t want to wait to recharge. Gvt can fix this.

    4) I like powerful cars that go vroom. Gvt cannot fix this.

    Because of number 4 I am unlikely to switch in my lifetime. And I’m only 40.
    Have you driven a decent electric? They are lick shit off a shovel.
    Licking shit of a shovel sounds…not good.
    Reminds me of what the teacher taking us for rugby at school said to me once
    " Alan, It doesn't matter if you can run like shit off hot shovel if you haven't got the bloody ball!"
    (said in a very Welsh accent)
    Sounds familiar. It wasn't Elwyn Price was it?
    No, Mr Marshall. (known as "Taffy" behind his back).
  • Kemi channels @ydoethur with those biscuit puns.
  • DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo

    CCTV from a school obtained by the BBC shows autistic children being shoved into padded rooms, thrown to the floor, restrained by the neck - or left alone, sitting in vomit.

    The footage from Whitefield School in north-east London resembles "torture", one safeguarding expert told us. It shows for the first time the reality of what pupils faced.

    What is it like to attend this school?
    Pupils attending Whitefield school are happy, well cared for and kept safe. Pupils are
    treated with dignity and respect and enjoy positive relationships with adults. Staff
    are highly knowledgeable about working with the considerable range of varying
    needs.

    The school in question is https://www.whitefieldschool.org.uk/ , not to be confused with https://www.whitefield.barnet.sch.uk/
    You'd like to think that the people responsible for that report would be sacked but they are more likely to be promoted.
    What's the background here? Is this a demonising report after the problems have been addressed?
    My understanding (and I may have got it wrong, I am simply relying on what was reported on here) is that the BBC has footage of children with special needs being treated in a vile way but that the last inspection report contained the nonsense quoted above. Yet another example of a tick box report that gives (in this case) a dangerously misleading description of what being at the school is like.
    The footage dates from 2014 to 2017, not recent.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    TimS said:

    If anyone is bothered...

    "I am pleased to announce that our new Chancellor will be Lord Hague of Richmond, having achieved over 50% of the votes in the final stage of the election."

    No dice for Mandelson in Oxford.

    Identical wording to the email I just got so you must have received the same one. Hague was the hot favourite.
    I wonder what benefit being the chancellor brings. Aside from the prestige. I've not looked at what the stipend is but I assume they don't do it for the money. Maybe it is just the prestige. And being invited to interesting events.
    I can't speak for Oxford, but for Bath I would suggest a bit of prestige and a bit of social responsibility/duty. Current Chancellor is the Duke of Edinburgh. Chancellors advise the Uni leadership, represent the Uni etc. I am led to believe that the current Chancellor was the one who told Glynis Breakwell (the VC on the Premier League salary) that she had to go. Kudos to him if thats true, as she was stuck harder than a limpet in a suoerglue factory.
  • Fascinating stuff. Please forgive me if this has already been covered, but does anyone have any recommendations on how best to follow the Irish General Election count when it starts? Is the RTE coverage any good, or is it best to try somewhere else? I am assuming, of course, that I will be able to follow it on the internet somehow, rather than on free TV.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    TimS said:

    Revolting weather this morning seems to be giving way to a modicum of brightness in the sky. Such are the micro-happinesses of life in November Britain.

    You'll trigger @Leon with this kind of observation.
This discussion has been closed.