Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Gone but not forgotten – politicalbetting.com

124678

Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,096

    Sir Keir Starmer is preparing to give ground on reparations amid demands from Commonwealth nations for payments of up to £18 trillion.

    The Prime Minister has rejected calls for financial reparations, but is reportedly considering non-cash options such as providing debt relief.

    Other possible options could include a formal apology, supporting public health institutions and educational programmes for students from Commonwealth nations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/25/keir-starmer-prepares-give-ground-commonwealth-reparations/

    Thank $deity for the Telegraph's insight. So we can expect something between £18 trillion and, erm, nothing beyond an insincere apology. Glad they've narrowed it down.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25

    a

    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    Trump would be such a disaster (again) for the US.

    How not every PBer can see that, is baffling.

    Why do you think not every PBer can see that? The question with this election is which candidate would be the lesser disaster. I still feel like I don’t have a good answer, it’s all bad choices at this point.
    How about that one of them is going to implode the world economy?

    "Donald Trump has a mystical fixation with tariffs. His pin-up idol is the forgotten champion of 19th-century protection, William McKinley."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/10/25/trumps-nostalgia-19th-century-tariffs-alarming-implications/
    Shame he never learned about Smoot-Hawley, and the Great Depression.
    Though it also assisted Hitler's ascent, so maybe he'd still be in favour.
    According to the TSE piece Trump doesn't even know that McKinley lost his seat in the ensuing economic depression and changed his mind completely on tariffs.

    As @rcs1000 pointed out yesterday - it is just laugh loud ironic that Trump Cult are voting for him because he will beat inflation.


    I saw somewhere, it may have been here, that some people are voting for Donny because "although he might be a fascist" he "has a good business brain"...

    Tariffs
    For me the thing that damns him most regarding business is his view of a deal is a win/lose result whereas a good deal is always a win/win. A win/lose might look good, but it always comes back to bite you and taints all future negotiations. Nobody is going to voluntarily deal with you in future unless they are desperate or looking to get one over on you in return.

    Of course for a con artist or fraudster the best deal is always a win/lose.
    I read the other day - can't recall where - that the TV producer of the Apprentice has come forward to say 'sorry' because basically they invented Trump the myth that he is this super business brain. It was all tosh. They made it all up. He was a struggling real estate guy when they started. His office was so crap they had to build a special set.
    I think this is a decent video on Trump from Johnny Harris (who is definitely not a fan).

    The REAL Story of Donald Trump
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_JpCSvTpk&

    Trump was doing a Richard Branson / influencer marketing before influencer marketing before influencer marketing was a thing. He managed to earn a lot of money from leveraging his brand (even before the Apprentice) with zero risk to him. That was smart business and the Apprentice was that on steroids.

    He will do anything to win, or seen to win, he cheats, he is unethical, he only cares about himself, but lots of these business failures weren't him or he left others on the hook.
    Branson regularly features on in Private Eye. To save OGHs blushes, I won't repeat the stories here.

    Suffice it to say the comparison between him and Trump has more... depth? than some might think.
    My choice of Branson was intentional. What a lot of people don't realise is managed to give the illusion of still very much being in the UK and part of everyday life, when he had left for tax reasons well before. Like Trump, so much PR / smoke and mirrors.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,586
    edited October 25

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    Trump would be such a disaster (again) for the US.

    How not every PBer can see that, is baffling.

    Why do you think not every PBer can see that? The question with this election is which candidate would be the lesser disaster. I still feel like I don’t have a good answer, it’s all bad choices at this point.
    How about that one of them is going to implode the world economy?

    "Donald Trump has a mystical fixation with tariffs. His pin-up idol is the forgotten champion of 19th-century protection, William McKinley."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/10/25/trumps-nostalgia-19th-century-tariffs-alarming-implications/
    Shame he never learned about Smoot-Hawley, and the Great Depression.
    Though it also assisted Hitler's ascent, so maybe he'd still be in favour.
    According to the TSE piece Trump doesn't even know that McKinley lost his seat in the ensuing economic depression and changed his mind completely on tariffs.

    As @rcs1000 pointed out yesterday - it is just laugh loud ironic that Trump Cult are voting for him because he will beat inflation.


    Yet Harris and her team have no real counter to that. It's staggering.
    Their counter to that is that high inflation has now ended in the US and the economy is doing well.
    Is that it. Pathetic. It is on a par with the Tories in 95 saying 'it hurt but it worked'. Did them no good.

    As I say, they have no counter to it, or certainly an ineffective one given people are still feeling inflations impact, the economy may do well but if people don't feel it what good does it do the incumbent and they certainly have no counter to the ludicrous tariffs Trump is proposing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,578

    a

    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    Trump would be such a disaster (again) for the US.

    How not every PBer can see that, is baffling.

    Why do you think not every PBer can see that? The question with this election is which candidate would be the lesser disaster. I still feel like I don’t have a good answer, it’s all bad choices at this point.
    How about that one of them is going to implode the world economy?

    "Donald Trump has a mystical fixation with tariffs. His pin-up idol is the forgotten champion of 19th-century protection, William McKinley."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/10/25/trumps-nostalgia-19th-century-tariffs-alarming-implications/
    Shame he never learned about Smoot-Hawley, and the Great Depression.
    Though it also assisted Hitler's ascent, so maybe he'd still be in favour.
    According to the TSE piece Trump doesn't even know that McKinley lost his seat in the ensuing economic depression and changed his mind completely on tariffs.

    As @rcs1000 pointed out yesterday - it is just laugh loud ironic that Trump Cult are voting for him because he will beat inflation.


    I saw somewhere, it may have been here, that some people are voting for Donny because "although he might be a fascist" he "has a good business brain"...

    Tariffs
    For me the thing that damns him most regarding business is his view of a deal is a win/lose result whereas a good deal is always a win/win. A win/lose might look good, but it always comes back to bite you and taints all future negotiations. Nobody is going to voluntarily deal with you in future unless they are desperate or looking to get one over on you in return.

    Of course for a con artist or fraudster the best deal is always a win/lose.
    I read the other day - can't recall where - that the TV producer of the Apprentice has come forward to say 'sorry' because basically they invented Trump the myth that he is this super business brain. It was all tosh. They made it all up. He was a struggling real estate guy when they started. His office was so crap they had to build a special set.
    I think this is a decent video on Trump from Johnny Harris (who is definitely not a fan).

    The REAL Story of Donald Trump
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_JpCSvTpk&

    Trump was doing a Richard Branson / influencer marketing before influencer marketing before influencer marketing was a thing. He managed to earn a lot of money from leveraging his brand (even before the Apprentice) with zero risk to him. That was smart business and the Apprentice was that on steroids.

    He will do anything to win, or seen to win, he cheats, he is unethical, he only cares about himself, but lots of these business failures weren't him or he left others on the hook.
    Branson regularly features on in Private Eye. To save OGHs blushes, I won't repeat the stories here.

    Suffice it to say the comparison between him and Trump has more... depth? than some might think.
    My choice of Branson was intentional. What a lot of people don't realise is managed to give the illusion of still very much being in the UK when he had left for tax reasons well before.
    Indeed. There is a reason he calls all his businesses "Virgin... "

    Well, two actually.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,096
    JohnO said:

    O/T I was distraught, bordering on full nervous collapse, at not having received Nigel Farage's promised personalised email urging defection to Reform.

    So, imagine how tears of sorrow turned to those of joy, when I discovered that it was resting in the spam folder, along with Muslim News and crap from Robert Jenrick (voted for Kemi yesterday).

    And there, brothers and sisters, it shall remain until I can summon enough energy to delete the bloody thing. All is right with the world.

    What sort of PB conspiracy theorist are you?

    What's your email domain: hotmail, yahoo, gmail? If they've hidden these emails, marked them as spam, that proves Leon & Elon are right about a global conspiracy of leftist tech bros against right wingers like Trump, Jenrick and Farage.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671
    Shipping way too many runs here.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,586
    SKS is being used to mitigate people's criminality now.

    "Thief who stole £350 from pensioner avoids jail after arguing it was no worse than winter fuel raid"

    :smiley:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/thief-who-stole-350-from-pensioner-avoids-jail-after-arguing-it-was-no-worse-than-winter-fuel-raid/ar-AA1sQOhD?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=bb499c127c504abab750a3897867625e&ei=13
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,619
    On topic.

    TRUSS
  • Leon said:

    Ooh. Just been offered a trip to Svalbard…. IN WINTER

    Has anyone been? That’s gonna be COLD - but interesting

    I haven't been there but when I worked in Oslo I had work colleagues who did.
    It is one of the few places in the world you can ride snowmobiles "off-piste" if that is your thing.
    And for $10,000 you could charter a plane to the North Pole.
  • a

    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    Trump would be such a disaster (again) for the US.

    How not every PBer can see that, is baffling.

    Why do you think not every PBer can see that? The question with this election is which candidate would be the lesser disaster. I still feel like I don’t have a good answer, it’s all bad choices at this point.
    How about that one of them is going to implode the world economy?

    "Donald Trump has a mystical fixation with tariffs. His pin-up idol is the forgotten champion of 19th-century protection, William McKinley."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/10/25/trumps-nostalgia-19th-century-tariffs-alarming-implications/
    Shame he never learned about Smoot-Hawley, and the Great Depression.
    Though it also assisted Hitler's ascent, so maybe he'd still be in favour.
    According to the TSE piece Trump doesn't even know that McKinley lost his seat in the ensuing economic depression and changed his mind completely on tariffs.

    As @rcs1000 pointed out yesterday - it is just laugh loud ironic that Trump Cult are voting for him because he will beat inflation.


    I saw somewhere, it may have been here, that some people are voting for Donny because "although he might be a fascist" he "has a good business brain"...

    Tariffs
    For me the thing that damns him most regarding business is his view of a deal is a win/lose result whereas a good deal is always a win/win. A win/lose might look good, but it always comes back to bite you and taints all future negotiations. Nobody is going to voluntarily deal with you in future unless they are desperate or looking to get one over on you in return.

    Of course for a con artist or fraudster the best deal is always a win/lose.
    I read the other day - can't recall where - that the TV producer of the Apprentice has come forward to say 'sorry' because basically they invented Trump the myth that he is this super business brain. It was all tosh. They made it all up. He was a struggling real estate guy when they started. His office was so crap they had to build a special set.
    I think this is a decent video on Trump from Johnny Harris (who is definitely not a fan).

    The REAL Story of Donald Trump
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_JpCSvTpk&

    Trump was doing a Richard Branson / influencer marketing before influencer marketing before influencer marketing was a thing. He managed to earn a lot of money from leveraging his brand (even before the Apprentice) with zero risk to him. That was smart business and the Apprentice was that on steroids.

    He will do anything to win, or seen to win, he cheats, he is unethical, he only cares about himself, but lots of these business failures weren't him or he left others on the hook.
    Branson regularly features on in Private Eye. To save OGHs blushes, I won't repeat the stories here.

    Suffice it to say the comparison between him and Trump has more... depth? than some might think.
    My choice of Branson was intentional. What a lot of people don't realise is managed to give the illusion of still very much being in the UK when he had left for tax reasons well before.
    Oh yes, that secret island he resides on in (checks notes) the British Virgin isles.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,889
    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    nico679 said:

    So Musk who has US government contracts has been having secret conversations with Putin .

    Isn’t this a security risk ?

    And how much more power will Musk yield if Trump wins?

    And yet some clueless Tory politicians continue to allegedly support Ukraine whilst at the same time want Trump to win .

    I am desperate for the people of Ukraine to be free of Russian tyranny and for Putin to be put back in his box. But I honestly have no idea what the US Democrats plan is to favourably end this war. Foot dragging on military equipment, restrictive rules of engagement, laughable energy sanctions etc…

    And with each few months that pass, the world casually crosses once unthinkable thresholds into an ever more dangerous place. US and European tanks invading Russia. North Korean infantry invading Europe. Russia and Iran effectively shutting the Suez. Israel and Iran in direct conflict etc…

    Is anyone still credibly talking about Ukraine retaking Crimea? Or even making it through the impossibly dense minefields between their forces and the coast? After the debacles of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc… would it shock you to discover there is no coherent US strategy or goal?

    I’m not thrilled about trump’s solution either, because it doesn’t work unless Ukraine is admitted to NATO, which seems highly unlikely to clear the string of vetoes (including his). And in of itself does nothing to deter Chinese imperialism, actually the opposite.

    But I rather think we’re beyond the point of assuming that the continuation of the current US administration is unequivocally better for our long term security. There’s rather more to it.

    I think that, however imperfect, it is unequivocally better.
    You have somehow forgotten that Ukraine is in the tactical situation it now is thanks to a full six month delay in US aid, courtesy of Trump and his poodle in Congress, Mike Johnson.
    I have forgotten nothing. I just don’t agree with you. Ukraine is in the position it is in because Obama / Biden / Sullivan do not understand the need for credible deterrence. “Chemical weapons are a red line”…”it depends what sort of invasion”.

    If we take Bob Woodward’s version, in autumn 2022 when we were fixed on the Queen’s funeral and a lettuce, the Russian army was on the run. But Ukraine was ordered to let them escape from Kherson because Biden was scared of nuclear war.

    With hindsight, Ukraine was then setup to fail in 2023 with the much much trialed counter offensive. It was being expected to cross dense mine fields with no air support for its engineers, which got picked off by Russian helicopters. At every turn, Ukraine has had one hand behind its back. Don’t forget Lend Lease expired unused. You can’t blame that on Trump.

    The bill that was eventually passed this year had a requirement for the US to provide ATACMS. Because the Biden White House had refused to provide them.

    In his obsession with de-escalation doctinre, Biden has forgotten that deterrence is cheaper and more effective the earlier you do it. But we are sadly now well beyond that point. There needs to be an urgent strategic rethink about how to restore credible deterrence in Europe and the Pacific. And I’m not clear how sending thousands of Ukrainians to their deaths against North Korean slaves achieves that. Will trump provide a good answer? I don’t know. Neither do you. I do know that the status quo is becoming very dangerous indeed.
    FWIW, I've argued for a stronger western response since the start of the invasion. I was ridiculed by not a few posters on here (including our peripatetic aviator) for saying Biden should have sent F16s back in 2022.
    So you're not telling me anything I don't already know.

    I just think it completely delusional to think Trump would be anything but a disaster for the continued existence of Ukraine as an independent state.
    I suspect the chances of Ukrainian remaining a fully intact independent state have realistically already gone. The US is not prepared to risk Putin suffering a humiliation. And in any case it’s quite unclear that Ukraine is capable of knitting together the ageing western kit at its disposal to turf the Russians out.

    For me the question is whether Ukraine can retain what they already have. Much is made of the idea that Putin would spend a few years re-arming during a cautious peace and try again. And I’m sure he would, if Ukraine is not in NATO.

    But… this neglects the fact that Ukraine would also spend that time turning itself into a fortress. Is there reason to think that after 3 years of both sides re-arming, that Ukraine would be in a significantly worse position than it is today? Perhaps the answer is yes, but I’m not averse to asking the question.

    Let us not forget that the ease with which Russia made its gains in early 2022 was as much as anything to do with Ukrainian under-preparedness and the surprise factor. And perhaps even some corruption in the ranks that failed to blow key bridges at the right moment for example. Since then, this has become a war of total attrition. Which is unwinnable if Putin can alleviate degraded stockpiles of armour with a near endless supply of Korean infantry. What’s the plan if this 10k troops ends up being a vanguard for 100k to follow?

    Whichever way I look at it, real politik dictates that whoever wins the US election, the war is ending soon. And not in the way most of us here would have wanted, but something much messier and equivocal.
    The only way it end is with security guarantees for Ukraine (ie NATO membership) - otherwise it's just a pause.
    And Putin won't accept that.
    What in the NATO treaty would oblige the US to do more for Ukraine than they are currently doing?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    My understanding of this is that avoiding NATO membership in particular (and a pro-western alignment in what the Russians think should be their sphere of influence in general) is the entire point of the war, and the supposed wishes of a hypothetical pro-Russian minority is a pretext, so Putin would absolutely not accept NATO membership. It seems like he can prevent it by ensuring a continuing state of war since NATO won't accept a country that's at war when it joins, so that's what he would do even if it was in his interests to have a short-term peace deal while he entrenches what he's taken.

    What makes this war very hard to end and doomed previous peace negotiations is that disarming Ukraine is both the genuine main Russian goal and something that, if it happened, they would use to get their secondary goals like political control of Ukraine. If it was all Russia wanted then Ukraine might be able to agree to it, and if it was merely a pretext then Russia might agree to drop it, but it's neither.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25
    It is interesting how slapping brand on white label items has become this enormous global industry. I don't just mean whoever the latest YouTube or TikkyTokky star is flogging merch.

    There is a little know company in Stoke that turn £100m's every year from sourcing white label goods from China and branding them in conjunction with really big household name brands who you would be expecting to design or make such an item e.g. Kettle, toasters, or very least be controlling the subcontracting.

    Of course previously these brands might have subcontracted to somebody to make something that isn't core business, now they often don't even do anything other than licence the name to a third party.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,523
    Noman out.
    But Sajid Khan bat.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209
    Taz said:

    SKS is being used to mitigate people's criminality now.

    "Thief who stole £350 from pensioner avoids jail after arguing it was no worse than winter fuel raid"

    :smiley:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/thief-who-stole-350-from-pensioner-avoids-jail-after-arguing-it-was-no-worse-than-winter-fuel-raid/ar-AA1sQOhD?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=bb499c127c504abab750a3897867625e&ei=13

    Indeed it is theft. Stealing from struggling workers to fund millionaire pensioner cruises. Thank goodness Sir Keir is putting a stop to this.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,885
    JohnO said:

    O/T I was distraught, bordering on full nervous collapse, at not having received Nigel Farage's promised personalised email urging defection to Reform.

    So, imagine how tears of sorrow turned to those of joy, when I discovered that it was resting in the spam folder, along with Muslim News and crap from Robert Jenrick (voted for Kemi yesterday).

    And there, brothers and sisters, it shall remain until I can summon enough energy to delete the bloody thing. All is right with the world.

    Well done on the vote, I have also returned my vote for Kemi this morning. We just have to hope she grows into the role.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,917

    JohnO said:

    O/T I was distraught, bordering on full nervous collapse, at not having received Nigel Farage's promised personalised email urging defection to Reform.

    So, imagine how tears of sorrow turned to those of joy, when I discovered that it was resting in the spam folder, along with Muslim News and crap from Robert Jenrick (voted for Kemi yesterday).

    And there, brothers and sisters, it shall remain until I can summon enough energy to delete the bloody thing. All is right with the world.

    What sort of PB conspiracy theorist are you?

    What's your email domain: hotmail, yahoo, gmail? If they've hidden these emails, marked them as spam, that proves Leon & Elon are right about a global conspiracy of leftist tech bros against right wingers like Trump, Jenrick and Farage.
    "Leon & Elon"?
    I never noticed the clever anagram. Have they ever been seen together?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,712

    It is interesting how slapping brand on white label items has become this enormous global industry. I don't just mean whoever the latest YouTube or TikkyTokky star is flogging merch.

    There is a little know company in Stoke that turn £100m's every year from sourcing white label goods from China and branding them in conjunction with really big household name brands who you would be expecting to design or make such an item e.g. Kettle, toasters, or very least be controlling the subcontracting.

    Of course previously these brands might have subcontracted to somebody to make something that isn't core business, now they often don't even do anything other than licence the name to a third party.

    So it's a legitimate business? Interesting.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 565

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Latest from Conhome confirming Badenoch retains her lead over Jenrick

    https://conservativehome.com/2024/10/25/badenoch-maintains-her-lead-in-our-final-leadership-survey/

    Kemi would be an interesting choice but I suspect Farage would be the man most pleased with that choice in terms of the final 2.

    Electoral Calculus had a poll out with a Badenoch led Tories on 22% just 1% ahead of Farage's Reform on 21%, Lyabour were on 29% and the LDs on 12%.

    Whereas under Jenrick the Tories were unchanged on the GE on 23% with Reform on 20%, Labour on 28% and the LDs also on 12%
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_hypopoll_20241017.html
    You say Farage but remember Boris sees himself as the king across the water.
    If Trump wins and Badenoch wins I think the odds of Boris returning as Tory leader by the next GE increase significantly yes, he is the only Conservative leader (apart from maybe Mogg) who could really squeeze Farage back into his box
    And you really believe this nonsense

    Johnson is the last person the conservative party need going forward
    But he's also the other politician that excites Farage fans.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    Nigelb said:

    Noman out.
    But Sajid Khan bat.

    Just for a second, I read that as "SADIQ Khan" :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963

    On topic.

    TRUSS

    KEMI
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,523
    Tucker somehow got hold of TSE's browser history ?

    Tucker Carlson’s vision of a Trump presidency is that “dad comes home” and says to America,
    “You’ve been a bad girl. You’ve been a bad little girl and you’re getting a vigorous spanking, right now. … It’s going to hurt you a lot more than it hurts me.”

    https://x.com/IsaacDovere/status/1849243980648579189

    "Loud cheers"

    Seriously, WTAF ?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,632

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    What evidence we have is that the vast majority of Ukrainian citizens who had done sympathy with Russia lost that sympathy following the 2022 invasion. There's only a tiny minority of pro-Russian residents, except for the Russian citizens who have been moved in to occupy the place.

    Your prescription would be to doom a large number of people to either unwilling occupation, or to be forced off their land. It's primarily people that Ukraine is fighting to defend. The borders are important more to the extent that showing a willingness to defend existing borders dissuades aggressors from crossing them.

    We have to think about the next dozen conflicts that could be prevented by resolute action in this war.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,893
    Nigelb said:

    Tucker somehow got hold of TSE's browser history ?

    Tucker Carlson’s vision of a Trump presidency is that “dad comes home” and says to America,
    “You’ve been a bad girl. You’ve been a bad little girl and you’re getting a vigorous spanking, right now. … It’s going to hurt you a lot more than it hurts me.”

    https://x.com/IsaacDovere/status/1849243980648579189

    "Loud cheers"

    Seriously, WTAF ?

    More like Leon's browsing history surely?...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    edited October 25

    Sir Keir Starmer is preparing to give ground on reparations amid demands from Commonwealth nations for payments of up to £18 trillion.

    The Prime Minister has rejected calls for financial reparations, but is reportedly considering non-cash options such as providing debt relief.

    Other possible options could include a formal apology, supporting public health institutions and educational programmes for students from Commonwealth nations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/25/keir-starmer-prepares-give-ground-commonwealth-reparations/

    Thank $deity for the Telegraph's insight. So we can expect something between £18 trillion and, erm, nothing beyond an insincere apology. Glad they've narrowed it down.
    I don't know about other Commonwealth nations, but hardly anybody in India pays Income Tax (or equivalent). So a better idea, I feel, is to make sure Commonwealth countries like India levy Income Tax properly.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    JohnO said:

    O/T I was distraught, bordering on full nervous collapse, at not having received Nigel Farage's promised personalised email urging defection to Reform.

    So, imagine how tears of sorrow turned to those of joy, when I discovered that it was resting in the spam folder, along with Muslim News and crap from Robert Jenrick (voted for Kemi yesterday).

    And there, brothers and sisters, it shall remain until I can summon enough energy to delete the bloody thing. All is right with the world.

    What sort of PB conspiracy theorist are you?

    What's your email domain: hotmail, yahoo, gmail? If they've hidden these emails, marked them as spam, that proves Leon & Elon are right about a global conspiracy of leftist tech bros against right wingers like Trump, Jenrick and Farage.
    Oh, far more alarming (arguably worse than the illuminati), it's the sinister and unseen hand of Surrey County Council's awesome IT folks. Probably, I should be afraid but at the moment, a warm, serene contentment prevails.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,689
    Nigelb said:

    Tucker somehow got hold of TSE's browser history ?

    Tucker Carlson’s vision of a Trump presidency is that “dad comes home” and says to America,
    “You’ve been a bad girl. You’ve been a bad little girl and you’re getting a vigorous spanking, right now. … It’s going to hurt you a lot more than it hurts me.”

    https://x.com/IsaacDovere/status/1849243980648579189

    "Loud cheers"

    Seriously, WTAF ?

    Wow. And there are actually posters on PB who invite us to consider these people as somehow normal.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25
    Andy_JS said:

    It is interesting how slapping brand on white label items has become this enormous global industry. I don't just mean whoever the latest YouTube or TikkyTokky star is flogging merch.

    There is a little know company in Stoke that turn £100m's every year from sourcing white label goods from China and branding them in conjunction with really big household name brands who you would be expecting to design or make such an item e.g. Kettle, toasters, or very least be controlling the subcontracting.

    Of course previously these brands might have subcontracted to somebody to make something that isn't core business, now they often don't even do anything other than licence the name to a third party.

    So it's a legitimate business? Interesting.
    Yes, and big companies, Black and Decker, SMEG, Morphy Richards. They have their own brands as well, I think Tower is one, but some of those things you see made by say B+D, it is pure licensing play, they have slapped on that brand onto a white label item.

    Batteries is another area, that if you go and look, there is this one giant company that is slapping on the brands onto generic batteries, even really well known brands (for perhaps sizes they don't do mass volume of).

    One of the lesser understood reasons for Dyson move to Singapore, is yes tax, yes nearer to what is their major market, but there is a company just a few miles away in Malaysia that are the best in the world at taking a product design and working out how to actually mass produce it. They offer a full service of taking your product, then working how how to make, finding factories for the components (or even setting them up), i guess a bit like you have consulting engineers like ARAP who take architect design and run the full works of design, product management, etc.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,712
    Maybe there's an election coming up in Canada. Just a guess.

    "@JustinTrudeau
    We’re going to have fewer temporary foreign workers in Canada.

    We’re bringing in stricter rules for companies to prove why they can’t hire Canadian workers first."

    https://x.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1849217594710011992
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,893
    OT
    Sky News seems to be getting more like the Daily Mail with it's slant on the news if late.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    SIXTEEN years ago, Putin invaded the Republic of Georgia, and is still holding on to Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,523

    Nigelb said:

    Tucker somehow got hold of TSE's browser history ?

    Tucker Carlson’s vision of a Trump presidency is that “dad comes home” and says to America,
    “You’ve been a bad girl. You’ve been a bad little girl and you’re getting a vigorous spanking, right now. … It’s going to hurt you a lot more than it hurts me.”

    https://x.com/IsaacDovere/status/1849243980648579189

    "Loud cheers"

    Seriously, WTAF ?

    More like Leon's browsing history surely?...
    Yes, apologies for overlooking the absence of MiLs.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,632
    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671

    Andy_JS said:

    It is interesting how slapping brand on white label items has become this enormous global industry. I don't just mean whoever the latest YouTube or TikkyTokky star is flogging merch.

    There is a little know company in Stoke that turn £100m's every year from sourcing white label goods from China and branding them in conjunction with really big household name brands who you would be expecting to design or make such an item e.g. Kettle, toasters, or very least be controlling the subcontracting.

    Of course previously these brands might have subcontracted to somebody to make something that isn't core business, now they often don't even do anything other than licence the name to a third party.

    So it's a legitimate business? Interesting.
    Yes, and big companies, Black and Decker, SMEG, Morphy Richards. They have their own brands as well, I think Tower is one, but some of those things you see made by say B+D, it is pure licensing play, they have slapped on that brand onto a white label item.
    Yes, you have to watch carefully which are the items made in Europe or Japan, and those made in China.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927
    edited October 25
    Morning all :)

    The weekly Techne Poll has Labour up one on 29%, the Conservatives down one on 24% and all other parties unchanged so to use newspaper (and Internet Forum) linguistic hyperbole, Labour "have swept" into a five point lead while the Conservatives "have crashed back" to 24%.

    Yeah, right.

    On the slightly more substantive, the problem with the Ukraine situation is the status quo works pretty well for everyone except, of course, the Russians, Ukrainians and others doing the fighting and dying. There are some analogies to the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s which killed tens of thousands on both sides while the rest of the world carried on.

    There were then, as there are now, broad parameters, terms of engagement if you will, which are there not to end the war but to confine it and prevent its proliferation.

    The current state benefits the Russian and Ukrainian leaderships, the arms manufacturers as well as many other parties. The rest of us carry on while the bloodbath carries on - we do enough to ensure Ukraine doesn't lose but not enough to ensure they can win.

    As for Liz Truss, from the hindsight of two years on, it was an extraordinary time with the Queen's passing. Truss's problem was she had comprehensively misread the public "mood" which, post-Covid, had evolved into a sense of perceived "fairness" - a policy which seemed to favour those with wealth was never going to resonate as well in the 2020s as it had in the 1980s - the reaction to Starmer's "gifts" is more about "if I have to pay £200 to see Taylor Swift then so should he" than whether he should be going to the concerts at all. The aspirational element in society (a huge help to the Conservatives) has been replaced by a more egalitarian view (why should he/she be favoured because of who they are?).

    You could describe it as a form of neo-Puritanism if you want (attitudes to gambling and betting have changed) but it's more about inequality of opportunity probably based on the well-evidenced decline in social mobility.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25

    OT
    Sky News seems to be getting more like the Daily Mail with it's slant on the news if late.

    All of them are. Sky are really struggling for views and clicks, GB News is beating them hands down. Even the BBC (particularly the overnight crew) increasingly love sidebar of shame type stories.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,586
    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    SKS is being used to mitigate people's criminality now.

    "Thief who stole £350 from pensioner avoids jail after arguing it was no worse than winter fuel raid"

    :smiley:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/thief-who-stole-350-from-pensioner-avoids-jail-after-arguing-it-was-no-worse-than-winter-fuel-raid/ar-AA1sQOhD?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=bb499c127c504abab750a3897867625e&ei=13

    Indeed it is theft. Stealing from struggling workers to fund millionaire pensioner cruises. Thank goodness Sir Keir is putting a stop to this.

    I don't have a problem with the change to WFA, I just found it amusing that some chavvy fecker used it as mitigation in a court case.



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,523
    edited October 25

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    "There's a difficult discussion to be had over wars of aggression and mass killing of civilian populations..."

    "Creative exploration"

    Seriously, Nick.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,712
    edited October 25
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,586
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe there's an election coming up in Canada. Just a guess.

    "@JustinTrudeau
    We’re going to have fewer temporary foreign workers in Canada.

    We’re bringing in stricter rules for companies to prove why they can’t hire Canadian workers first."

    https://x.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1849217594710011992

    Don't worry, it will all be back to normal once the election is over if Trudeau wins.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It is interesting how slapping brand on white label items has become this enormous global industry. I don't just mean whoever the latest YouTube or TikkyTokky star is flogging merch.

    There is a little know company in Stoke that turn £100m's every year from sourcing white label goods from China and branding them in conjunction with really big household name brands who you would be expecting to design or make such an item e.g. Kettle, toasters, or very least be controlling the subcontracting.

    Of course previously these brands might have subcontracted to somebody to make something that isn't core business, now they often don't even do anything other than licence the name to a third party.

    So it's a legitimate business? Interesting.
    Yes, and big companies, Black and Decker, SMEG, Morphy Richards. They have their own brands as well, I think Tower is one, but some of those things you see made by say B+D, it is pure licensing play, they have slapped on that brand onto a white label item.
    Yes, you have to watch carefully which are the items made in Europe or Japan, and those made in China.
    If I remember this is how I found out about the Stoke company in the first place. My father had bought some JCB branded batteries, and I was like, there is no way JCB make these batteries, would then even subcontract having them made, makes no sense, and off I went down a rabbit hole. The Stoke company don't make the batteries, I think it was a google result of searching around this topic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Latest from Conhome confirming Badenoch retains her lead over Jenrick

    https://conservativehome.com/2024/10/25/badenoch-maintains-her-lead-in-our-final-leadership-survey/

    Kemi would be an interesting choice but I suspect Farage would be the man most pleased with that choice in terms of the final 2.

    Electoral Calculus had a poll out with a Badenoch led Tories on 22% just 1% ahead of Farage's Reform on 21%, Lyabour were on 29% and the LDs on 12%.

    Whereas under Jenrick the Tories were unchanged on the GE on 23% with Reform on 20%, Labour on 28% and the LDs also on 12%
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_hypopoll_20241017.html
    You say Farage but remember Boris sees himself as the king across the water.
    If Trump wins and Badenoch wins I think the odds of Boris returning as Tory leader by the next GE increase significantly yes, he is the only Conservative leader (apart from maybe Mogg) who could really squeeze Farage back into his box
    And you really believe this nonsense

    Johnson is the last person the conservative party need going forward
    If Badenoch becomes leader and by midterm of an unpopular Labour government is at least level with them in the polls or even ahead then she will be OK and Boris will stay in rural Oxfordshire.

    If however by midterm she is failing to capitalise on Labour's unpopularity and level with Farage's Reform with Labour still clearly in front then the drumbeat to recall Boris as Prince across the Water to the leadership will be deafening and a safe seat from those the party held in 2024 would likely be found for him with a supporter giving up his seat
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,689

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
  • Nigelb said:

    Tucker somehow got hold of TSE's browser history ?

    Tucker Carlson’s vision of a Trump presidency is that “dad comes home” and says to America,
    “You’ve been a bad girl. You’ve been a bad little girl and you’re getting a vigorous spanking, right now. … It’s going to hurt you a lot more than it hurts me.”

    https://x.com/IsaacDovere/status/1849243980648579189

    "Loud cheers"

    Seriously, WTAF ?

    It’s funny, as you get older you start loving the things you hated as a kid, taking naps and getting spanked.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Latest from Conhome confirming Badenoch retains her lead over Jenrick

    https://conservativehome.com/2024/10/25/badenoch-maintains-her-lead-in-our-final-leadership-survey/

    Kemi would be an interesting choice but I suspect Farage would be the man most pleased with that choice in terms of the final 2.

    Electoral Calculus had a poll out with a Badenoch led Tories on 22% just 1% ahead of Farage's Reform on 21%, Labour were on 29% and the LDs on 12%.

    Whereas under Jenrick the Tories were unchanged on the GE on 23% with Reform on 20%, Labour on 28% and the LDs also on 12%
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_hypopoll_20241017.html
    You say Farage but remember Boris sees himself as the king across the water.
    If Trump wins and Badenoch wins I think the odds of Boris returning as Tory leader by the next GE increase significantly yes, he is the only Conservative leader (apart from maybe Mogg) who could really squeeze Farage back into his box
    If the Conservatives even think about bringing Boris back then they've no wish to be a serious party of government.

    Boris leant nothing from other people's mistakes and has learnt nothing from his own mistakes.

    I can accept people making mistakes, they are an inevitable part of life.

    But I cannot accept people not learning from them.
    Never mind being a 'serious party of government' if a Badenoch led Tories fall behind Farage's Reform party they won't even be 'a serious party of opposition.'
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,470
    edited October 25
    Thank-you for the Header. I had forgotten "frack me or sack me", and the quite good quote from Ed Milliband:

    Opening the debate, Miliband said the government was pursuing a “frack me or sack me strategy”, saying fracking was “one of the most unpopular causes in the country”. He added: “In normal times such an idiotic idea would have been dismissed out of hand but these are not normal times. But I say to the house and I say to members opposite, they all know that the prime minister will be gone in a matter of weeks, if not days, if not hours.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/19/fracking-vote-labour-liz-truss-vote-of-confidence

    (accent) About 10 days later .... (/accent)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,975
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    What would I do if I was in charge? Firstly, the main problem is that no-one facing Putin is in charge. Not even Big Z. It's a coalition of countries with different aims, desires and concerns that is almost unmanageable.

    But putting that to one side: I'd let Putin know that nothing other than the 2014 borders were acceptable for 'peace'. That there can be no lifting of the sanctions off his country and his cronies until that happens. That is a maximalist position; but so is Putin's. We would need to sweeten the deal, but in ways that do not damage Ukraine's territorial sovereignty. Russia's economy is not doing well, and there may well be ways to sweeten the deal there.

    In addition, I'd tell Putin that he is not the only one with red lines. If he uses long-range weapons from other countries (e.g. Iran) against Ukraine, then Ukraine can use similar weapons against Russia. If North Korean troops can fight for Russia in Ukraine, then we will consider sending our own troops in. I think Poland might quite like that. There are escalation dangers, but at the moment Putin escalates and we do not respond.

    I'd also be talking to China and India, who are both giving Russia various levels of help. Can we discourage them from those actions, either by carrot or stick? At the moment we seem to be ignoring it.

    There is really no 'right' answer to the question, and dangers abound in every direction. But I fear the safest route for the future of the world is for Russia to be beaten in Ukraine, and for an important lesson is sent to dictators and would-be imperialists around the world: that such wars of conquest are not the way things are done any more.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Latest from Conhome confirming Badenoch retains her lead over Jenrick

    https://conservativehome.com/2024/10/25/badenoch-maintains-her-lead-in-our-final-leadership-survey/

    Kemi would be an interesting choice but I suspect Farage would be the man most pleased with that choice in terms of the final 2.

    Electoral Calculus had a poll out with a Badenoch led Tories on 22% just 1% ahead of Farage's Reform on 21%, Lyabour were on 29% and the LDs on 12%.

    Whereas under Jenrick the Tories were unchanged on the GE on 23% with Reform on 20%, Labour on 28% and the LDs also on 12%
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_hypopoll_20241017.html
    You say Farage but remember Boris sees himself as the king across the water.
    If Trump wins and Badenoch wins I think the odds of Boris returning as Tory leader by the next GE increase significantly yes, he is the only Conservative leader (apart from maybe Mogg) who could really squeeze Farage back into his box
    And you really believe this nonsense

    Johnson is the last person the conservative party need going forward
    If Badenoch becomes leader and by midterm of an unpopular Labour government is at least level with them in the polls or even ahead then she will be OK and Boris will stay in rural Oxfordshire.

    If however by midterm she is failing to capitalise on Labour's unpopularity and level with Farage's Reform with Labour still clearly in front then the drumbeat to recall Boris as Prince across the Water to the leadership will be deafening and a safe seat from those the party held in 2024 would likely be found for him with a supporter giving up his seat
    I think this is astute analysis. Too many here will confuse their personal dislike of this outcome with the probability of it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,196
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump's best mate has been up to more tricks.

    I assumed that was going to be this story

    @BlueATLGeorgia

    Breaking: Elon Musk has reportedly been having secret conversations with Vladimir Putin.

    https://x.com/BlueATLGeorgia/status/1849643207904133407

    @michaelsobolik

    Good grief.

    Putin asked Musk to deny Starlink services to Taiwan as a favor to Xi Jinping.

    @elonmusk’s parroting of CCP propaganda about Taiwan takes on an even darker dimension…

    https://x.com/michaelsobolik/status/1849625929288487239
    It's all going to get very complicated after January 20th.

    I hadn't really considered the Venn diagram of Bond villains raised in Apartheid South Africa and KGB hardman fanbois.
    @whstancil

    So basically Elon Musk is a traitor working with America's enemies, he's also the main funder and proponent of Donald Trump's campaign, and he controls a bunch of our communications and national security infrastructure. And is the richest guy on earth, to boot. Seems bad
    I suspect this is a desperate load of bollocks confected by the democrats in fear of Trump winning. Recall they suppressed lab leak - the origins of a global pandemic, arguably the most important peacetime FACT in history - to help Biden
    Something about Elon causes people to completely take leave of their mental faculties. Was there ever a time when people recognised that all human beings are flawed but deserving of judgement in the round? All this tribalism for its own sake is so tedious.
    The more we know about each other, the more we hate each. Prior to social media it was possible to believe that the country was made up of people like us who had broadly the same aims and a government that acted in our interests against other countries. We now know that isn't true - and, thanks to social media, we get our nose rubbed in it every day. I think this is why we are so angry, anxious, and increasingly mentally ill.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I'm sure that's what Musk and the VCs intend. But the story of the Trump administration is almost entirely composed of people who thought they could work with Trump and use him for their own purposes, but ultimately got screwed for Trump's purposes. The lone exception seems to be Mitch McConnell, who was supremely experienced in the art of political ratfuckery.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,975

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I don't think Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump has said some rather disparaging things about Musk and his products in the relatively recent past.

    I think it's simply that they both see the other as a useful idiot; that, for the moment at least, their interests align.

    How long that will last is another matter.

    (I half expect Twix to buy out Truth Social; that would be an indication that the two of them are moving closer)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    Who do Britons see as the UK's allies and enemies?

    Say is a 'friend and ally' or 'friendly rival'
    Australia: 87%
    New Zealand: 85%
    Canada: 85%
    United States: 84%
    Sweden: 80%
    Italy: 78%
    Ireland: 78%
    Spain: 77%
    Germany: 76%
    Poland: 73%
    France: 71%
    Japan: 65%
    India: 60%
    The EU: 59%

    Say is 'generally unfriendly' or a 'hostile threat'
    Russia: 86%
    China: 63%

    Opinion divided
    Israel: 35% ally/friendly vs 35% unfriendly/threat
    Saudi Arabia: 31% vs 36%
    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1849742952404242931
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671
    Comedian Theo Von interviews JD Vance. Two hours.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=vd8mmTDDqAs

    There’s a suggestion that Trump is going to be on Rogan’s podcast, filming today. That will break the internet tomorrow.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25
    BBC now seems to think Starmer is struggling to define a woman working person.

    Starmer attempts to define 'working people' tax pledge
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgqy8v7ze0ko

    The problem Starmer seems to have is when pushed he goes into his lawyerly mode which might well work in court but because it is often unclear exactly what he means, it gives the press pack a load of other avenues to explore. He had about 3 separate goes at explaining his football tickets and managed to muddy the waters each time, before some #10 press person crafted a briefing for the media.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920
    edited October 25

    If I remember this is how I found out about the Stoke company in the first place. My father had bought some JCB branded batteries, and I was like, there is no way JCB make these batteries, would then even subcontract having them made, makes no sense, and off I went down a rabbit hole. The Stoke company don't make the batteries, I think it was a google result of searching around this topic.

    I end up arguing with my father a lot about this sort of thing. He wants to replace or fix something electrical or some gadget, and he insists on buying traditional brands, and usually getting me to find the thing and order it for him. Then I have to explain that the thing is decades old and no longer made, or if it's made it's not the same company anymore, it actually comes from places like Turkey and China and has an old household UK brand slapped on it.

    There is almost nothing of that type that has a well known UK brand on it that is made in the UK now. It doesn't matter how it is marketed or sold, they aren't what they appear to be.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I don't think Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump has said some rather disparaging things about Musk and his products in the relatively recent past.

    I think it's simply that they both see the other as a useful idiot; that, for the moment at least, their interests align.

    How long that will last is another matter.

    (I half expect Twix to buy out Truth Social; that would be an indication that the two of them are moving closer)
    It won’t take long for the wheels to come off
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,511
    edited October 25

    BBC now seems to think Starmer is struggling to define a woman working person.

    Starmer attempts to define 'working people' tax pledge
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgqy8v7ze0ko

    The problem Starmer seems to have is when pushed he goes into his lawyerly mode which might well work in court but because it is often unclear exactly what he means, it gives the press pack a load of other avenues to explore. He had about 3 goes at explaining his football tickets and managed to muddy the waters each time.

    Didn't you post this same post yesterday? Including the joke.

    Are you compiling an album of your greatest hits?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25

    BBC now seems to think Starmer is struggling to define a woman working person.

    Starmer attempts to define 'working people' tax pledge
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgqy8v7ze0ko

    The problem Starmer seems to have is when pushed he goes into his lawyerly mode which might well work in court but because it is often unclear exactly what he means, it gives the press pack a load of other avenues to explore. He had about 3 goes at explaining his football tickets and managed to muddy the waters each time.

    Didn't you post this same post yesterday?

    Are you compiling an album of your greatest hits?
    No, not me. This was posted 8 mins ago by the BBC.

    You are thinking of others and Sky interview.

    Other than if you are referring to the joke, yes I posted that. But the only comment on substance I made was Beth Rigby has a very bad habit of asking a question, getting an answering and then saying "well what the prime minsters means / says was" and often it wasn't what they said.

    I don't know why you have taken up this weird role as PB ref....blows whistle, gag told more than once...yellow card...sin bin.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,854
    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    What would I do if I was in charge? Firstly, the main problem is that no-one facing Putin is in charge. Not even Big Z. It's a coalition of countries with different aims, desires and concerns that is almost unmanageable.

    But putting that to one side: I'd let Putin know that nothing other than the 2014 borders were acceptable for 'peace'. That there can be no lifting of the sanctions off his country and his cronies until that happens. That is a maximalist position; but so is Putin's. We would need to sweeten the deal, but in ways that do not damage Ukraine's territorial sovereignty. Russia's economy is not doing well, and there may well be ways to sweeten the deal there.

    In addition, I'd tell Putin that he is not the only one with red lines. If he uses long-range weapons from other countries (e.g. Iran) against Ukraine, then Ukraine can use similar weapons against Russia. If North Korean troops can fight for Russia in Ukraine, then we will consider sending our own troops in. I think Poland might quite like that. There are escalation dangers, but at the moment Putin escalates and we do not respond.

    I'd also be talking to China and India, who are both giving Russia various levels of help. Can we discourage them from those actions, either by carrot or stick? At the moment we seem to be ignoring it.

    There is really no 'right' answer to the question, and dangers abound in every direction. But I fear the safest route for the future of the world is for Russia to be beaten in Ukraine, and for an important lesson is sent to dictators and would-be imperialists around the world: that such wars of conquest are not the way things are done any more.
    There's an escalate-to-deescalate kind of strategy that might work if the US and EU had the stomach for it. Act as if Ukraine was in Nato (they can't formally join because some Nato members will veto) and send troops to Ukraine. Then before they do any actual fighting, go offer Putin a deal to freeze the current line of control. This looks a bit like the Korea situation: Your ally is unhappy, but they have a clear path to survival, and if the adversary restarts the war then things will probably get worse for them rather than better.

    The downside of this is that if it goes wrong, one of the ways it goes wrong is by unleashing global nuclear armageddon.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,975
    moonshine said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
    That's an interesting question. But I'd point out that virtually no-one would have thought in February 2022 that Ukraine would still be a viable state two and a half years later; not only that, but that it would also controlled some Russia territory!

    We are stymied by this thinking that Russia is some fantastic, gigantic beast. It is not, and neither is its military. Its economy is below Canada's in terms of GDP. It can be beaten. More than that, it must be beaten.

    The use of weapons from Iran and NK troops are not a sign of Russian strength; quite the opposite. And reliance on those weakens Russia further in the medium term.

    The best way of beating Putin is for him to realise he cannot win. The only person who can stop this war is Putin. We are sending him mixed messages that lead him to think he can win. We need to dissuade him from that, whilst giving him a route out of the mess he has created.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,632
    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I don't think Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump has said some rather disparaging things about Musk and his products in the relatively recent past.

    I think it's simply that they both see the other as a useful idiot; that, for the moment at least, their interests align.

    How long that will last is another matter.

    (I half expect Twix to buy out Truth Social; that would be an indication that the two of them are moving closer)
    It won’t take long for the wheels to come off
    Are you talking about Trump/Musk or the cricket?
  • moonshine said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
    With the current level of global escalation, and the increasing cooperation of the BRICs, I don't think there's any alternative to some form of very toughly negotiated de-escalation.

    Neither Russia or Zelensky will get everything that they want.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,712
    New Statesman.

    "Why Kamala Harris was always destined to lose
    Despite the hype, there is no way the vice-president could have done all that was needed in the 100 days she had.
    By Megan Gibson"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/10/why-kamala-harris-was-always-destined-to-lose
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25
    glw said:

    If I remember this is how I found out about the Stoke company in the first place. My father had bought some JCB branded batteries, and I was like, there is no way JCB make these batteries, would then even subcontract having them made, makes no sense, and off I went down a rabbit hole. The Stoke company don't make the batteries, I think it was a google result of searching around this topic.

    I end up arguing with my father a lot about this sort of thing. He wants to replace or fix something electrical or some gadget, and he insists on buying traditional brands, and usually getting me to find the thing and order it for him. Then I have to explain that the thing is decades old and no longer made, or if it's made it's not the same company anymore, it actually comes from places like Turkey and China and has an old household UK brand slapped on it.

    There is almost nothing of that type that has a well known UK brand on it that is made in the UK now. It doesn't matter how it is marketed or sold, they aren't what they appear to be.
    The buying on these legacy brands by Chinese companies is very clever. I always wonder how many people buying MG, Volvo, Lotus, know that their car is Chinese.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920
    edited October 25

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way or another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,854
    Mr. glw, it wasn't a quality concern, it was that I'd sooner support somewhere that isn't Communist.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25
    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way of another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    There are also some clever "loopholes" they utilise e.g. they will still make one product line in that country, normally the very high end one, but the vast bulk is not, however it still allows them to bang on about such and such being made by the same family owned firm for 100 years.

    Of course Western brands do this as well. They outsource all the low and mid tier stuff elsewhere.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,231
    Local by-elections! Big swings against the Tories in Old Dean (Surrey Heath), Barton & Becton (New Forest), Croft (East Lindsey) [but this only on a technicality] and Talybolion (Isle of Anglesey). Vote share down, but swings to them in Calder (Calderdale), Histon & Impington (South Cambridgeshire) and Northgate & West Green (Crawley). But massive gains from Labour in Town (Monmouthshire) and Middleforth (South Ribble). Good set of results for the LibDems.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920

    The buying on these legacy brands by Chinese companies is very clever. I always wonder how many people buying MG, Volvo, Lotus, know that their car is Chinese.

    I wouldn't mind so much, but it's such a faff to find something my father is happy with, just so the brand is right. With me explaining it's the same thing as the more widely available cheaper option. I remember one part he wanted where buying the branded part was literally 20 times the price of buying an unbranded and identical part, and when I say identical I mean they were actually the very same item.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,244

    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way of another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    There are also some clever "loopholes" they utilise e.g. they will still make one product line in that country, normally the very high end one, but the vast bulk is not, however it still allows them to bang on about such and such being made by the same family owned firm for 100 years.

    Of course Western brands do this as well.
    I'm not sure how common this is, but we actually export manufactured goods to China.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25
    glw said:

    The buying on these legacy brands by Chinese companies is very clever. I always wonder how many people buying MG, Volvo, Lotus, know that their car is Chinese.

    I wouldn't mind so much, but it's such a faff to find something my father is happy with, just so the brand is right. With me explaining it's the same thing as the more widely available cheaper option. I remember one part he wanted where buying the branded part was literally 20 times the price of buying an unbranded and identical part, and when I say identical I mean they were actually the very same item.
    I don't think most people quite realise the extent of globalisation and consolidation over the past 20 years. In so many industries there will be a very small number of companies who basically make 90%+ of that item or part. Something like 90% of global bike frames are made in Taiwan, in two factories, which can see one another.

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,578
    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way or another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    The German hollowing out came as quite a shock to many German people, who'd been sold the myth that German manufacturing was... German manufacturing.

    The start of the Ukraine war exposed a lot of that - especially how leading German brands keep a high end line in the factory in Germany. So they can say - German company, we manufacture in Germany. And everything else in their product line is worse shored.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671
    Pulpstar said:

    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way of another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    There are also some clever "loopholes" they utilise e.g. they will still make one product line in that country, normally the very high end one, but the vast bulk is not, however it still allows them to bang on about such and such being made by the same family owned firm for 100 years.

    Of course Western brands do this as well.
    I'm not sure how common this is, but we actually export manufactured goods to China.
    Bentleys, McLarens, Aston Martins, Rollers…
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,511

    BBC now seems to think Starmer is struggling to define a woman working person.

    Starmer attempts to define 'working people' tax pledge
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgqy8v7ze0ko

    The problem Starmer seems to have is when pushed he goes into his lawyerly mode which might well work in court but because it is often unclear exactly what he means, it gives the press pack a load of other avenues to explore. He had about 3 goes at explaining his football tickets and managed to muddy the waters each time.

    Didn't you post this same post yesterday?

    Are you compiling an album of your greatest hits?
    No, not me. This was posted 8 mins ago by the BBC.

    You are thinking of others and Sky interview.

    Other than if you are referring to the joke, yes I posted that. But the only comment on substance I made was Beth Rigby has a very bad habit of asking a question, getting an answering and then saying "well what the prime minsters means / says was" and often it wasn't what they said.

    I don't know why you have taken up this weird role as PB ref....blows whistle, gag told more than once...yellow card...sin bin.....
    I normally wait a week before recycling my old nonsense.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,632

    moonshine said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
    With the current level of global escalation, and the increasing cooperation of the BRICs, I don't think there's any alternative to some form of very toughly negotiated de-escalation.

    Neither Russia or Zelensky will get everything that they want.
    What are you going to do to force Russia to negotiate?

    There can be no negotiation when Putin still thinks he can win by waiting for the West to get bored, or give up.

    We constantly get this crap as though it is Ukraine, or the hawks in the West, who are blocking negotiations. Putin doesn't want to negotiate. He wants to win.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,470
    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    SKS is being used to mitigate people's criminality now.

    "Thief who stole £350 from pensioner avoids jail after arguing it was no worse than winter fuel raid"

    :smiley:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/thief-who-stole-350-from-pensioner-avoids-jail-after-arguing-it-was-no-worse-than-winter-fuel-raid/ar-AA1sQOhD?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=bb499c127c504abab750a3897867625e&ei=13

    Indeed it is theft. Stealing from struggling workers to fund millionaire pensioner cruises. Thank goodness Sir Keir is putting a stop to this.
    I don't have a problem with the change to WFA, I just found it amusing that some chavvy fecker used it as mitigation in a court case.
    Inevitably it was the lawyer, not the thief: one John Cooper.

    The "could have got 26 months weeks, but walker free" is normal Telegraph stirring, here aggregated by MSN. Looking at the sentencing guide, he got what is usual for a Category 1 (less than £500) medium to high culpability offence - a high level community order.

    The full piece is here:
    https://archive.ph/hacjP
    Sentencing guide for theft
    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/theft-general/

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,578

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I don't think Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump has said some rather disparaging things about Musk and his products in the relatively recent past.

    I think it's simply that they both see the other as a useful idiot; that, for the moment at least, their interests align.

    How long that will last is another matter.

    (I half expect Twix to buy out Truth Social; that would be an indication that the two of them are moving closer)
    It won’t take long for the wheels to come off
    Are you talking about Trump/Musk or the cricket?
    I was bought up on England cricket collapses. The days when the greatest New Wonder batsman would be discovered to be useless against fast bowling... Robin Smith would come on to get his 50 and reduce the embarrassment.

    So an England victory in the cricket, for me, would have to involve something like AI and robots.....
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329
  • For GE24, has there been much done on the massive polling failure?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401

    Local by-elections! Big swings against the Tories in Old Dean (Surrey Heath), Barton & Becton (New Forest), Croft (East Lindsey) [but this only on a technicality] and Talybolion (Isle of Anglesey). Vote share down, but swings to them in Calder (Calderdale), Histon & Impington (South Cambridgeshire) and Northgate & West Green (Crawley). But massive gains from Labour in Town (Monmouthshire) and Middleforth (South Ribble). Good set of results for the LibDems.

    No Reform in Monmouthshire and South Ribble enabled the Tories to get big swings from Labour there
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Latest polls .

    Tipp

    Harris 49 (-1)
    Trump 47 (-)

    NY Times/Siena

    Harris 48 (-1)
    Trump 48 (+2)

    One piece of better news for Harris in that poll is she leads 42 to 32 with those not fully decided .
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.

    My father is the sort of person who always picks Sony for any consumer electronics because they made Trinitron TVs.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415
    viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump's best mate has been up to more tricks.

    I assumed that was going to be this story

    @BlueATLGeorgia

    Breaking: Elon Musk has reportedly been having secret conversations with Vladimir Putin.

    https://x.com/BlueATLGeorgia/status/1849643207904133407

    @michaelsobolik

    Good grief.

    Putin asked Musk to deny Starlink services to Taiwan as a favor to Xi Jinping.

    @elonmusk’s parroting of CCP propaganda about Taiwan takes on an even darker dimension…

    https://x.com/michaelsobolik/status/1849625929288487239
    It's all going to get very complicated after January 20th.

    I hadn't really considered the Venn diagram of Bond villains raised in Apartheid South Africa and KGB hardman fanbois.
    @whstancil

    So basically Elon Musk is a traitor working with America's enemies, he's also the main funder and proponent of Donald Trump's campaign, and he controls a bunch of our communications and national security infrastructure. And is the richest guy on earth, to boot. Seems bad
    I suspect this is a desperate load of bollocks confected by the democrats in fear of Trump winning. Recall they suppressed lab leak - the origins of a global pandemic, arguably the most important peacetime FACT in history - to help Biden
    Something about Elon causes people to completely take leave of their mental faculties. Was there ever a time when people recognised that all human beings are flawed but deserving of judgement in the round? All this tribalism for its own sake is so tedious.
    The more we know about each other, the more we hate each. Prior to social media it was possible to believe that the country was made up of people like us who had broadly the same aims and a government that acted in our interests against other countries. We now know that isn't true - and, thanks to social media, we get our nose rubbed in it every day. I think this is why we are so angry, anxious, and increasingly mentally ill.
    I think that social media is intended to stoke hatred.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,557

    On topic.

    TRUSS

    KEMI
    KIER

    The greatest since Gladstone?

    Many now think so.

    One to ponder.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,244
    nico679 said:

    Latest polls .

    Tipp

    Harris 49 (-1)
    Trump 47 (-)

    NY Times/Siena

    Harris 48 (-1)
    Trump 48 (+2)

    One piece of better news for Harris in that poll is she leads 42 to 32 with those not fully decided .

    Another piece of good news is that Trump is likely extending his advantage in Florida, a state he already comfortably has which means Harris will need fewer votes overall to hit 270.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401

    moonshine said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
    That's an interesting question. But I'd point out that virtually no-one would have thought in February 2022 that Ukraine would still be a viable state two and a half years later; not only that, but that it would also controlled some Russia territory!

    We are stymied by this thinking that Russia is some fantastic, gigantic beast. It is not, and neither is its military. Its economy is below Canada's in terms of GDP. It can be beaten. More than that, it must be beaten.

    The use of weapons from Iran and NK troops are not a sign of Russian strength; quite the opposite. And reliance on those weakens Russia further in the medium term.

    The best way of beating Putin is for him to realise he cannot win. The only person who can stop this war is Putin. We are sending him mixed messages that lead him to think he can win. We need to dissuade him from that, whilst giving him a route out of the mess he has created.
    Putin is just waiting for Trump to win, then if he does will likely get all Russian occupied Ukraine handed to him in a 'peace' deal.

    Zelensky meanwhile will try and get nuclear weapons
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,309
    edited October 25
    glw said:

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.

    My father is the sort of person who always picks Sony for any consumer electronics because they made Trinitron TVs.

    I might be wrong, but I get the feeling their brand power isn't anywhere near as strong in the West for some electrical items these days including TVs. Do they even still "make" laptops and phones?
  • Not everyone who wants to discuss the Ukraine war in terms above than “nuke Putin to shit” is a Russian-apologist. This bad faith arguing has long gotten stale.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415
    HYUFD said:

    Local by-elections! Big swings against the Tories in Old Dean (Surrey Heath), Barton & Becton (New Forest), Croft (East Lindsey) [but this only on a technicality] and Talybolion (Isle of Anglesey). Vote share down, but swings to them in Calder (Calderdale), Histon & Impington (South Cambridgeshire) and Northgate & West Green (Crawley). But massive gains from Labour in Town (Monmouthshire) and Middleforth (South Ribble). Good set of results for the LibDems.

    No Reform in Monmouthshire and South Ribble enabled the Tories to get big swings from Labour there
    The Conservatives also made a gain in Bournemouth, with a 17% increase.

    I think that Reform still eat into the Conservatives' vote share, but in some cases, the fall in the Labour vote is so large that it does not matter.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,742
    edited October 25

    glw said:

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.

    My father is the sort of person who always picks Sony for any consumer electronics because they made Trinitron TVs.

    I might be wrong, but I get the feeling their brand power isn't anywhere near as strong in the West for some electrical items these days including TVs. Do they even still "make" laptops and phones?
    Sony’s revenues primarily come from camera sensors and professional camera equipment where they completely dominate.

    Edit: and audio gear where they hold a lot of patents.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,578
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump's best mate has been up to more tricks.

    I assumed that was going to be this story

    @BlueATLGeorgia

    Breaking: Elon Musk has reportedly been having secret conversations with Vladimir Putin.

    https://x.com/BlueATLGeorgia/status/1849643207904133407

    @michaelsobolik

    Good grief.

    Putin asked Musk to deny Starlink services to Taiwan as a favor to Xi Jinping.

    @elonmusk’s parroting of CCP propaganda about Taiwan takes on an even darker dimension…

    https://x.com/michaelsobolik/status/1849625929288487239
    It's all going to get very complicated after January 20th.

    I hadn't really considered the Venn diagram of Bond villains raised in Apartheid South Africa and KGB hardman fanbois.
    @whstancil

    So basically Elon Musk is a traitor working with America's enemies, he's also the main funder and proponent of Donald Trump's campaign, and he controls a bunch of our communications and national security infrastructure. And is the richest guy on earth, to boot. Seems bad
    I suspect this is a desperate load of bollocks confected by the democrats in fear of Trump winning. Recall they suppressed lab leak - the origins of a global pandemic, arguably the most important peacetime FACT in history - to help Biden
    Something about Elon causes people to completely take leave of their mental faculties. Was there ever a time when people recognised that all human beings are flawed but deserving of judgement in the round? All this tribalism for its own sake is so tedious.
    The more we know about each other, the more we hate each. Prior to social media it was possible to believe that the country was made up of people like us who had broadly the same aims and a government that acted in our interests against other countries. We now know that isn't true - and, thanks to social media, we get our nose rubbed in it every day. I think this is why we are so angry, anxious, and increasingly mentally ill.
    I think that social media is intended to stoke hatred.
    Social media, nearly universally, uses an algorithm which presents a person with "For you" links that *promote activity on the platform*

    The algorithms vary in how they are create. Some use genetic algorithm techniques. But they generally learn, in a machine learning sense. Modify the algorithm - did we get more activity? Modify the algorithm - did we get more activity?....

    The result was lots of activity. The problem is that the most activity results from showing people (1) Stuff they really, really hate and (2) Stuff they like, but is a bit stronger/more radical.

    (2) leads to the famous radicalisation spiral.
    (1) leads to hate mobs....

    So the *intention* of the system creators was not to stoke hatred. But that's what it does.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444

    glw said:

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.

    My father is the sort of person who always picks Sony for any consumer electronics because they made Trinitron TVs.

    I might be wrong, but I get the feeling their brand power isn't anywhere near as strong in the West for some electrical items these days including TVs. Do they even still "make" laptops and phones?
    Sony stopped making laptops nearly 10 years ago.

    Their mobiles used to be about the best for photos but google and apple have caught up over the past 6 years.

    Sony still make very good headphones though..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,523

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    Apologies for my slightly intemperate reply to you upthread, Nick - but I do disagree with you about the likely willingness of Putin to agree any such deal.

    I don't disagree that Ukraine might eventually settle for something of the sort highlighted, despite the clear and obvious injustice, and Russia's blatant breach of international law - but in any event, signalling so in advance would probably just ensure further claims on its territory.

    And there's absolutely no evidence that Putin would accept any such deal.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    Latest polls .

    Tipp

    Harris 49 (-1)
    Trump 47 (-)

    NY Times/Siena

    Harris 48 (-1)
    Trump 48 (+2)

    One piece of better news for Harris in that poll is she leads 42 to 32 with those not fully decided .

    Another piece of good news is that Trump is likely extending his advantage in Florida, a state he already comfortably has which means Harris will need fewer votes overall to hit 270.
    I’d be shocked if Trump won the popular vote regardless of what happens in the EC. Florida is becoming redder with each cycle as GOP supporting retirees move into the state . Also the Latino vote there is becoming more GOP. It’s really damage limitation for the Dems there in terms of House races .
  • Trump will give up Ukraine to his mate Putin and that will be that. Ghastly man.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,712

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,578
    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    Apologies for my slightly intemperate reply to you upthread, Nick - but I do disagree with you about the likely willingness of Putin to agree any such deal.

    I don't disagree that Ukraine might eventually settle for something of the sort highlighted, despite the clear and obvious injustice, and Russia's blatant breach of international law - but in any event, signalling so in advance would probably just ensure further claims on its territory.

    And there's absolutely no evidence that Putin would accept any such deal.
    The only time that Putin would consider a deal would be if something like the Israeli/Hezbollah pager thing started happening to his circle.

    A personal threat would do it.
This discussion has been closed.