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Gone but not forgotten – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    Not everyone who wants to discuss the Ukraine war in terms above than “nuke Putin to shit” is a Russian-apologist. This bad faith arguing has long gotten stale.

    Poster makes bad faith argument in complaint against bad faith arguments.

    - The Internet, everywhere and always
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    Apologies for my slightly intemperate reply to you upthread, Nick - but I do disagree with you about the likely willingness of Putin to agree any such deal.

    I don't disagree that Ukraine might eventually settle for something of the sort highlighted, despite the clear and obvious injustice, and Russia's blatant breach of international law - but in any event, signalling so in advance would probably just ensure further claims on its territory.

    And there's absolutely no evidence that Putin would accept any such deal.
    Nor is there much evidence that Eastern Ukrainians wish to be part of Russia.

    I support arming Ukraine, because if Putin succeeds, all we do is teach him to do it again.
    https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/02/europe/russia-ukraine-crisis-poll-intl/index.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Final NY Times poll has it a dead heat - 48:48.

    Brace.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    Trump will give up Ukraine to his mate Putin and that will be that. Ghastly man.

    We had better get used to the idea because Trump is going to win.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,825

    Final NY Times poll has it a dead heat - 48:48.

    Brace.

    Final? The election is more than a week away!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I think Musk (and Thiel) consider Trump to be a useful idiot in their mission to install Vance as President of a Putin style oligarchy of billionaires.

    On the other hand, Trump (who apparently dislikes Musk) considers Musk to be a useful idiot in Trump's mission to become President again.

    Musk is correct.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Final NY Times poll has it a dead heat - 48:48.

    Brace.

    On those numbers (and Siena is an excellent pollster), it's almost inevitable that Trump would win.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,170
    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,825
    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
    Remind us again what that means?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited October 25
    Giving away 88 for the eighth wicket was bad enough, but giving away another 72 for the ninth wicket is unforgivable.

    Massive props to Saud Shakeel, his 134 probably wins this series for the hosts.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,170
    Sean_F said:

    Final NY Times poll has it a dead heat - 48:48.

    Brace.

    On those numbers (and Siena is an excellent pollster), it's almost inevitable that Trump would win.
    Unless Trump is doing a lot better than previously in California and New York.
  • moonshine said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
    With the current level of global escalation, and the increasing cooperation of the BRICs, I don't think there's any alternative to some form of very toughly negotiated de-escalation.

    Neither Russia or Zelensky will get everything that they want.
    What are you going to do to force Russia to negotiate?

    There can be no negotiation when Putin still thinks he can win by waiting for the West to get bored, or give up.

    We constantly get this crap as though it is Ukraine, or the hawks in the West, who are blocking negotiations. Putin doesn't want to negotiate. He wants to win.
    So does Zelensky. We are currently indulging the fantasy of a total victory, encouraged rhetorically and in public with the supply of arms, but in private as a negotiating stance.

    This isn't working, because Putin is drawing and more allies, global support, and resources than at the start. We could end in a situation where a similar result is reached, at the cost of far more lives.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    RobD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
    Remind us again what that means?
    Everyone but the Big Two?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    RobD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
    Remind us again what that means?
    SNP, Plaid Cymru, Lib Dems, Others, Reform, Greens.

    It's the psephological equivalent of using the term "Global Majority" instead of "non-White", where the poster wants to say "not Tory/Labour" and uses SPLORG instead.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    glw said:

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.

    My father is the sort of person who always picks Sony for any consumer electronics because they made Trinitron TVs.

    I might be wrong, but I get the feeling their brand power isn't anywhere near as strong in the West for some electrical items these days including TVs. Do they even still "make" laptops and phones?
    Sony’s revenues primarily come from camera sensors and professional camera equipment where they completely dominate.

    Edit: and audio gear where they hold a lot of patents.
    Sony’s revenues primarily come from the gaming division.

    https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/corporatereport/CorporateReport2024/
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,488
    glw said:

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.

    My father is the sort of person who always picks Sony for any consumer electronics because they made Trinitron TVs.

    You might enjoy this, which was doing the rounds a while ago - on the largest trinitron (and assumed largest CRT):

    https://consolemods.org/wiki/CRT:PVM-4300
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    moonshine said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
    With the current level of global escalation, and the increasing cooperation of the BRICs, I don't think there's any alternative to some form of very toughly negotiated de-escalation.

    Neither Russia or Zelensky will get everything that they want.
    What are you going to do to force Russia to negotiate?

    There can be no negotiation when Putin still thinks he can win by waiting for the West to get bored, or give up.

    We constantly get this crap as though it is Ukraine, or the hawks in the West, who are blocking negotiations. Putin doesn't want to negotiate. He wants to win.
    So does Zelensky. We are currently indulging the fantasy of a total victory, encouraged rhetorically and in public with the supply of arms, but in private as a negotiating stance.

    This isn't working, because Putin is drawing and more allies, global support, and resources than at the start. We could end in a situation where a similar result is reached, at the cost of far more lives.
    It's easy for us to pressure Zelenskyy because we fund his state and supply his army with ammunition.

    What are you going to do to pressure Putin to enter into negotiations?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited October 25
    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I think Musk (and Thiel) consider Trump to be a useful idiot in their mission to install Vance as President of a Putin style oligarchy of billionaires.

    On the other hand, Trump (who apparently dislikes Musk) considers Musk to be a useful idiot in Trump's mission to become President again.

    Musk is correct.
    As opposed to what George Soros and Bill Gates are doing on the other side, which is totally innocent and not exactly the same.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    edited October 25

    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way or another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    The German hollowing out came as quite a shock to many German people, who'd been sold the myth that German manufacturing was... German manufacturing.

    The start of the Ukraine war exposed a lot of that - especially how leading German brands keep a high end line in the factory in Germany. So they can say - German company, we manufacture in Germany. And everything else in their product line is worse shored.
    The principal function of brands for the consumer is nothing to do with source but with the reputation and trustworthiness that runs with the brand. Big brands put billions into protecting reputation; they stick their label onto all sorts of stuff but it is not in their interest to stick their label on food that poisons you and electronics that don't work. I should think business/management courses all have a little slot on Ratner and Townsend Thoreson.

    They save the consumer a vast amount of time.

    A particular favourite brand for me is 'Spar'. There is nothing in general exciting or special about it, until you realise there is one on a remote Scottish island you are visiting.

    (There is one on Iona. I should think it's an absolute goldmine, and fair play to them).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Sean_F said:

    In terms of foreign policy I'm mostly sympathetic to "Realist" arguments, but I have no time for "Realists" who argue against supporting Ukraine, because the West has no strategic interest there.

    Our interest is this. Expansionist powers are rarely satisfied. Yes, you do get people like Frederick the Great and Bismarck, who will say "enough", and strive to live in peace with their neighbours, once they've got the territory that they wanted.

    But far more common (and especially, far more typical of Russian leaders), is to see a successful conquest as the springboard for fresh demands. If Ukraine goes, Russia will be pursuing its claims in the Baltic States, Moldova, and the Suwalki Gap.

    The other thing is to remember that Russian Nationalism is predicated on We Are Doomed Unless We Expand. Demographics and the rest. Putin wanted Ukraine for it's population of "ethnic Russians", as much as anything.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    moonshine said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
    With the current level of global escalation, and the increasing cooperation of the BRICs, I don't think there's any alternative to some form of very toughly negotiated de-escalation.

    Neither Russia or Zelensky will get everything that they want.
    What are you going to do to force Russia to negotiate?

    There can be no negotiation when Putin still thinks he can win by waiting for the West to get bored, or give up.

    We constantly get this crap as though it is Ukraine, or the hawks in the West, who are blocking negotiations. Putin doesn't want to negotiate. He wants to win.
    So does Zelensky. We are currently indulging the fantasy of a total victory, encouraged rhetorically and in public with the supply of arms, but in private as a negotiating stance.

    This isn't working, because Putin is drawing and more allies, global support, and resources than at the start. We could end in a situation where a similar result is reached, at the cost of far more lives.
    It's worked pretty well. Russia has been forced to reveal itself as a far weaker power than it thought it was. It's military capability has been hugely degraded.

    Using North Korean soldiers and Iranian drones is not a sign of strength.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    algarkirk said:

    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way or another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    The German hollowing out came as quite a shock to many German people, who'd been sold the myth that German manufacturing was... German manufacturing.

    The start of the Ukraine war exposed a lot of that - especially how leading German brands keep a high end line in the factory in Germany. So they can say - German company, we manufacture in Germany. And everything else in their product line is worse shored.
    The principal function of brands for the consumer is nothing to do with source but with the reputation and trustworthiness that runs with the brand. Big brands put billions into protecting reputation; they stick their label onto all sorts of stuff but it is not in their interest to stick their label on food that poisons you and electronics that don't work. I should think business/management courses all have a little slot on Ratner and Townsend Thoreson.

    They save the consumer a vast amount of time.

    A particular favourite brand for me is 'Spar'. There is nothing in general exciting or special about it, until you realise there is one on a remote Scottish island you are visiting.
    I suggest you look on the reviews of fridges, washing machines etc. The fact that the major brands are slapping their name on shite is being noticed.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    Biden should have stood by his promise in 2020 to be a bridge to future generations and prepared the way for a high-quality primary contest to find his successor.
    This. 100x this.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Sandpit said:

    Giving away 88 for the eighth wicket was bad enough, but giving away another 72 for the ninth wicket is unforgivable.

    Massive props to Saud Shakeel, his 134 probably wins this series for the hosts.

    On average, over the entire history of Test cricket, teams double their score at 4 wickets down with the final six wickets.

    Pakistan nearly doubled their score at 7 wickets down, adding 167 runs to their 177-7.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,723

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I'm sure that's what Musk and the VCs intend. But the story of the Trump administration is almost entirely composed of people who thought they could work with Trump and use him for their own purposes, but ultimately got screwed for Trump's purposes. The lone exception seems to be Mitch McConnell, who was supremely experienced in the art of political ratfuckery.
    But I think it's less of puppet/master either way and more one of interests that have quite obviously become aligned for Musk and other plutocrats. Musk's business interests are that the tech industry remains/becomes even more lightly regulated and preferably lower taxed, but that government splurges on the government contracts some of his companies rely on. When it comes down to it that's fairly aligned with 'Trumpism' such as it has an outline.

    There's potentially some friction around tariffs, but given Trump appears to view these as a bit like a protection racket, there's likely work arounds - and it may harm, say, European or UK competitors more. Plus that's possibly offset by Trump's transactional view of foreign policy which would allow Musk to do lucrative deals with cash rich nasty regimes that are currently beyond the pale.

    Everything else is something of a red herring. In some ways it's a reversion to the mean of those with immense wealth favouring government that explicitly favours them. After a brief period in big tech's infancy, and post-financial crash whereby those with that wealth felt they had to at least pay lip service to having ethical motives that aligned more with some progressive talking points.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    I’m still hopeful that Harris might scrape a win . The Gallup 2012 polling fiasco lives long in the memory ! NY Times /Siena is a very good pollster but I’d wager that whatever happens in terms of the EC she’ll win the popular vote .
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited October 25

    algarkirk said:

    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way or another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    The German hollowing out came as quite a shock to many German people, who'd been sold the myth that German manufacturing was... German manufacturing.

    The start of the Ukraine war exposed a lot of that - especially how leading German brands keep a high end line in the factory in Germany. So they can say - German company, we manufacture in Germany. And everything else in their product line is worse shored.
    The principal function of brands for the consumer is nothing to do with source but with the reputation and trustworthiness that runs with the brand. Big brands put billions into protecting reputation; they stick their label onto all sorts of stuff but it is not in their interest to stick their label on food that poisons you and electronics that don't work. I should think business/management courses all have a little slot on Ratner and Townsend Thoreson.

    They save the consumer a vast amount of time.

    A particular favourite brand for me is 'Spar'. There is nothing in general exciting or special about it, until you realise there is one on a remote Scottish island you are visiting.
    I suggest you look on the reviews of fridges, washing machines etc. The fact that the major brands are slapping their name on shite is being noticed.
    I just bought a Makita drill, and the reviews made it very clear that there’s a huge difference between the $100 Chinese model and the $200 Japanese model. I expect that the Japanese one I bought will last pretty much forever.

    Out here in the sandpit, we even see it with cars. There are two completely different Mitsubishi Lancer cars on sale here. One is the one they sell in Japan and Europe, the other is the one they sell in India and Africa. Very different cars, with very different features. Ask me how I know that the base model of the 3rd world car doesn’t have ABS on it…
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    Sandpit said:

    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I think Musk (and Thiel) consider Trump to be a useful idiot in their mission to install Vance as President of a Putin style oligarchy of billionaires.

    On the other hand, Trump (who apparently dislikes Musk) considers Musk to be a useful idiot in Trump's mission to become President again.

    Musk is correct.
    As opposed to what George Soros and Bill Gates are doing on the other side, which is totally innocent and not exactly the same.
    OMG, Sandpit, will you stop reading pro-Trump propaganda?!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Trump will give up Ukraine to his mate Putin and that will be that. Ghastly man.

    We had better get used to the idea because Trump is going to win.
    Place your bets then.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I think Musk (and Thiel) consider Trump to be a useful idiot in their mission to install Vance as President of a Putin style oligarchy of billionaires.

    On the other hand, Trump (who apparently dislikes Musk) considers Musk to be a useful idiot in Trump's mission to become President again.

    Musk is correct.
    Project 2025 leader: Trump is just claiming to distance himself from Project 2025 because it’s campaign season. But we know that if he's elected, the page will turn to policymaking season. That’s our season
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1849542827371336017


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,893

    Sandpit said:

    Giving away 88 for the eighth wicket was bad enough, but giving away another 72 for the ninth wicket is unforgivable.

    Massive props to Saud Shakeel, his 134 probably wins this series for the hosts.

    On average, over the entire history of Test cricket, teams double their score at 4 wickets down with the final six wickets.

    Pakistan nearly doubled their score at 7 wickets down, adding 167 runs to their 177-7.
    The tail that wagged.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    algarkirk said:

    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way or another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    The German hollowing out came as quite a shock to many German people, who'd been sold the myth that German manufacturing was... German manufacturing.

    The start of the Ukraine war exposed a lot of that - especially how leading German brands keep a high end line in the factory in Germany. So they can say - German company, we manufacture in Germany. And everything else in their product line is worse shored.
    The principal function of brands for the consumer is nothing to do with source but with the reputation and trustworthiness that runs with the brand. Big brands put billions into protecting reputation; they stick their label onto all sorts of stuff but it is not in their interest to stick their label on food that poisons you and electronics that don't work. I should think business/management courses all have a little slot on Ratner and Townsend Thoreson.

    They save the consumer a vast amount of time.

    A particular favourite brand for me is 'Spar'. There is nothing in general exciting or special about it, until you realise there is one on a remote Scottish island you are visiting.
    I suggest you look on the reviews of fridges, washing machines etc. The fact that the major brands are slapping their name on shite is being noticed.
    That's interesting. A sub branch of white goods brands for me is this: in my local larger town is an independent white goods retailer/servicer that has been there for ever, with a fine reputation. When we need something we simply tell them what we want and they turn up with what they think is right. So far it has worked fine for over 30 years. The whole brand/reputation/trust/reliability thing is a cornerstone of civilised existence.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    RobD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
    Remind us again what that means?
    SNP, Plaid Cymru, Lib Dems, Others, Reform, Greens.

    It's the psephological equivalent of using the term "Global Majority" instead of "non-White", where the poster wants to say "not Tory/Labour" and uses SPLORG instead.
    More importantly, it's fun to say.
    SPLORG.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    glw said:

    Mr. glw, a while ago I decided to buy a reading light. Two models I liked, one American, one Chinese. So I opted for American. When it was delivered it turned out to be made in China.

    Branding is very deceptive. Companies in China know that people in the West might turn their nose up at Chinese products — probably unfairly as there's nothing particular wrong with a lot of Chinese goods now — so one way or another they get to market with a local brand and then people praise their "German" washing machine, or "Italian" stove, or "Japanese" TV, all of which are made in China.
    The German hollowing out came as quite a shock to many German people, who'd been sold the myth that German manufacturing was... German manufacturing.

    The start of the Ukraine war exposed a lot of that - especially how leading German brands keep a high end line in the factory in Germany. So they can say - German company, we manufacture in Germany. And everything else in their product line is worse shored.
    The principal function of brands for the consumer is nothing to do with source but with the reputation and trustworthiness that runs with the brand. Big brands put billions into protecting reputation; they stick their label onto all sorts of stuff but it is not in their interest to stick their label on food that poisons you and electronics that don't work. I should think business/management courses all have a little slot on Ratner and Townsend Thoreson.

    They save the consumer a vast amount of time.

    A particular favourite brand for me is 'Spar'. There is nothing in general exciting or special about it, until you realise there is one on a remote Scottish island you are visiting.
    I suggest you look on the reviews of fridges, washing machines etc. The fact that the major brands are slapping their name on shite is being noticed.
    That's interesting. A sub branch of white goods brands for me is this: in my local larger town is an independent white goods retailer/servicer that has been there for ever, with a fine reputation. When we need something we simply tell them what we want and they turn up with what they think is right. So far it has worked fine for over 30 years. The whole brand/reputation/trust/reliability thing is a cornerstone of civilised existence.
    Very common now for someone to say "This is actually made in Romania, avoid", and to see advice on how to decrypt model numbers to find the actual factory.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anti-trans ads are now the number one TV topic for the Trump campaign. The economy is number 5.

    As Marc notes: It "could either reset culture war politics for years to come in presidential races or, if Trump loses, go down as a major, even historic, tactical blunder."

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1849473156378984753

    Is that Musk's influence? You could imagine him feeling they culture war issues were more important than economic ones, given that as a billionaire he's only affected by the cultural issues and not the economic ones.
    We need to start seriously considering the possibility that Trump is Musk's puppet. Trump clearly isn't particularly bright and Musk is one of the most intelligent and visionary humans in history. It's just obvious how that dynamic would play out.
    I think Musk (and Thiel) consider Trump to be a useful idiot in their mission to install Vance as President of a Putin style oligarchy of billionaires.

    On the other hand, Trump (who apparently dislikes Musk) considers Musk to be a useful idiot in Trump's mission to become President again.

    Musk is correct.
    As opposed to what George Soros and Bill Gates are doing on the other side, which is totally innocent and not exactly the same.
    OMG, Sandpit, will you stop reading pro-Trump propaganda?!
    It’s hardly Trumpist propoganda to suggest that Soros is funding Democrats, he’s been doing it for decades and there’s thousands of public records of his donations.
  • moonshine said:

    kjh said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    The famously woke and anti-Trump Wall Street Journal has clearly invented the story about Elon Musk being in regular contact with Vladimir Putin. The fact that Musk shares Putin's entire values system is entirely coincidental. He is a far better engineer, though.

    We know musk is in regular contact with Putin because he TOLD us about a year ago when he was floating ideas for a Ukrainian peace

    Similarly, several Russian oligarchs - like Abramovich - are talking to the west even as they obey Putin

    This is how diplomacy works. Powerful individuals can often act as go-betweens

    Otherwise how would peace ever get discussed? Next
    You say 'peace'; if he's talking to Putin alone, then it'll be 'surrender' they're discussing. Ukrainian surrender, that is.

    It's like Corbyn talking to the IRA etc in terms of 'peace', If you're talking to only one side, then you're not talking peace. You're talking their side. Worse, these publicity-seeking idiots who go about trying to negotiate 'peace' without the explicit or implicit say-so of their government often make matters worse by disrupting other negotiations.
    A serious question. What would you do regarding Russia / Ukraine if you were in charge? Do you think the current “strategy” is a good one?
    No, we should be providing more and better arms so this stalemate can be ended and so the Russian occupation can be ended. Then we might get peace. Currently people are dying needlessly on both sides and it would be a disaster to let Russia take Ukraine or even part of it. We should stop this half hearted support and put Putin back in his box. With any luck that might also have the result of Putin losing his power in Russia and Luckashenko being removed in Belarus and reverting to a democracy.
    Escalation is rarely a good idea, and escalation in the cause of maintaining boundaries probably against the wishes of current residents is a terrible idea. There's a difficult discussion to be had about who gets to decide in areas where the supporters of one side have mostly fled, but common sense suggests that a shift in the border to accommodate pro-Russian residents coupled with NATO membership for the Ukrainian majority would be grudgingly accepted by both sides. Regardless, some creative exploration of options would be better than endless conflict.
    I love the way so many pro-Russian hand-wringers talk endlessly about western 'escalation' when we as much as breathe in response to Russia's aggression, but remain remarkably mute on the topic of Russia using Iranian missiles, or North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine. As if they're not escalatory actions...

    Your 'idea' is a terrible one. It will hand Russian a massive victory in the form of territory gain, and will just tell future imperialists that all you need to do to hold onto territory is to ethnically cleanse the newly-gained land and replace with your own population. It will encourage Putin to do more in a few years' time.

    If you want to avoid future wars, the territory goes back to Ukraine and any Russians, or pro-Russians, move out. *That* will be a firm message to Xi and others. And it will be 'fair'.
    I don’t disagree. But how? What if Kim sells a few hundred thousand troops rather than just 10k? The attrition rates in this war roughly map to the population differential between Russia and Ukraine. A politically risk free way for Putin to replenish his infantry seems concerning to me.

    The US govt is pretending the North Korean story isn’t happening in some weird election strategy. Where does it lead? South Korean troops? Troops from certain countries from NATO? Efforts to blockade Korean troops movements to Vladivostok? What?
    With the current level of global escalation, and the increasing cooperation of the BRICs, I don't think there's any alternative to some form of very toughly negotiated de-escalation.

    Neither Russia or Zelensky will get everything that they want.
    What are you going to do to force Russia to negotiate?

    There can be no negotiation when Putin still thinks he can win by waiting for the West to get bored, or give up.

    We constantly get this crap as though it is Ukraine, or the hawks in the West, who are blocking negotiations. Putin doesn't want to negotiate. He wants to win.
    So does Zelensky. We are currently indulging the fantasy of a total victory, encouraged rhetorically and in public with the supply of arms, but in private as a negotiating stance.

    This isn't working, because Putin is drawing and more allies, global support, and resources than at the start. We could end in a situation where a similar result is reached, at the cost of far more lives.
    It's easy for us to pressure Zelenskyy because we fund his state and supply his army with ammunition.

    What are you going to do to pressure Putin to enter into negotiations?
    Well, this is obviousky a very difficult scenario, because the West has already supported Zelensky's rhetoric of total victory for so long.

    One approach might be to start from a different public premise, not least to try and shore up all the global support that is currently drifting away.

    You could try painting the reality in clearer the colours, that Putin has acted as an imperial revivalist, by presenting a more moderate and pragmatic rhetoric from the west on ethnically contested areas, by
    comparison.

    An undeniably difficult issue with that is that Zelensky has already acted with Western umbrella for total victory for two years. It's very difficult for him to pursue any other course now.


    Paint Putin as the
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,058
    Andy_JS said:
    It's fascinating how global the phenomenon of collapsing birth rates is.

    The potential for global population to peak within the next 30 years would be an interesting milestone to live through.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    RobD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
    Remind us again what that means?
    Everyone but the Big Two?
    Yes. The reason why it is interesting is its growth. In GE 2017 Lab/Con together was over 84%. Current polling makes it about 54/55%. This is a dramatic shift and if it falls much more will precipitate a huge shift in sentiment and political structure. Of course it may go the other way and return to normal, but if, for example, the LDs suddenly get interesting and gain 5 points, and Reform add a few points too then Con/Lab 46, SPLORG 54 will attract huge media interest and become a self generating story.

    Both Lab and Con are trying hard to bring this about. That is the only explanation for their current uselessness.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    36m
    Aggregate Result of the 105 Council By-Elections (for 107 Seats) Since the 2024 General Election:

    LAB: 37 (-20)
    CON: 34 (+15)
    LDM: 17 (=)
    GRN: 6 (+3)
    IND: 6 (-2)
    SNP: 4 (+3)
    PLC: 2 (=)
  • Sorry for the missing lines, there !
    No more mobile posting from this weekend, I promise all fed -up readers of PB.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Bad news for @Anabobazina. Just spent a few days in the Lake District. He would be seriously missing out on the nutty, seedy flapjack drizzled with Peruvian dark chocolate from the Honesty Box without £2 in readies.

    And if he pulled up his sleeve to activate the applepay on his watch the ceremonial horn would be blown and all the villagers would come out to gather round him and laugh.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Cookie said:

    RobD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
    Remind us again what that means?
    SNP, Plaid Cymru, Lib Dems, Others, Reform, Greens.

    It's the psephological equivalent of using the term "Global Majority" instead of "non-White", where the poster wants to say "not Tory/Labour" and uses SPLORG instead.
    More importantly, it's fun to say.
    SPLORG.
    The SPLORG concept was, SFAICS, invented on PB within the last fortnight or so. It might even catch on. Wait and see.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    algarkirk said:

    RobD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
    Remind us again what that means?
    Everyone but the Big Two?
    Yes. The reason why it is interesting is its growth. In GE 2017 Lab/Con together was over 84%. Current polling makes it about 54/55%. This is a dramatic shift and if it falls much more will precipitate a huge shift in sentiment and political structure. Of course it may go the other way and return to normal, but if, for example, the LDs suddenly get interesting and gain 5 points, and Reform add a few points too then Con/Lab 46, SPLORG 54 will attract huge media interest and become a self generating story.

    Both Lab and Con are trying hard to bring this about. That is the only explanation for their current uselessness.
    Yes.

    Noticeable that the Lib Dems do not seem to be taking (much) advantage of this. I think they are seen as part of a Big Three.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Keep wasting the reviews like that please Pakistan

    Damn, that was well reviewed.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    If he’d stood down sooner then she might not have been the nominee.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Ratters said:

    Andy_JS said:
    It's fascinating how global the phenomenon of collapsing birth rates is.

    The potential for global population to peak within the next 30 years would be an interesting milestone to live through.
    South America has a love affair with healthcare - though not always in its national provision. In Peru, even years ago, they had pharmacies the way we used to have mobile phone shops - one on every corner.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    I did see the "KH: Joe Biden is perfectly fine and able, Interviewer: then why are you the candidate" exchange.

    V funny.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,170
    England 2 down. Duckett and Crawley.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    It's possibly the biggest miss this board has ever had given the shilling for Harris over the last 2 months like she's Mother Theresa.
  • What does Zak Crawley bring to this team.

    Burned a review too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Sean_F said:

    In terms of foreign policy I'm mostly sympathetic to "Realist" arguments, but I have no time for "Realists" who argue against supporting Ukraine, because the West has no strategic interest there.

    Our interest is this. Expansionist powers are rarely satisfied. Yes, you do get people like Frederick the Great and Bismarck, who will say "enough", and strive to live in peace with their neighbours, once they've got the territory that they wanted.

    But far more common (and especially, far more typical of Russian leaders), is to see a successful conquest as the springboard for fresh demands. If Ukraine goes, Russia will be pursuing its claims in the Baltic States, Moldova, and the Suwalki Gap.

    The whole of Europe is essentially relying on Poland to defend the line.

    Sadly, not for the first time.

    Boy, have we let that country down.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    TOPPING said:

    I did see the "KH: Joe Biden is perfectly fine and able, Interviewer: then why are you the candidate" exchange.

    V funny.

    But speaking of which I did hear Biden speak about something (could have been the Middle East) and he sounded perfectly compos mentis and aware. If a bit slow.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,457
    edited October 25

    glw said:

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.

    My father is the sort of person who always picks Sony for any consumer electronics because they made Trinitron TVs.

    I might be wrong, but I get the feeling their brand power isn't anywhere near as strong in the West for some electrical items these days including TVs. Do they even still "make" laptops and phones?
    Sony’s revenues primarily come from camera sensors and professional camera equipment where they completely dominate.

    Edit: and audio gear where they hold a lot of patents.
    Yes I know, I didn't say all. I hear something called Playstation is also quite popular. It was that some things like TVs, I don't think has the star power it had 20 years ago in the West, I think it still does in Japan.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,772
    I am finding the premature obituary writing of Harris’ presidential campaign from several quarters quite amusing.

    There’s an ultra close election coming up. The polling suggests it could go either way. But I cannot call it with any certainty whatsoever and a lot of journalists and commentators are going to have some serious egg on their faces if it’s President Harris in 12 days time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,893
    edited October 25
    Did anyone else think James Murray was particularly inept on the morning round this morning. I mean being a landlord generally isn't a job. If you're a landlord then you can be your own property manager (Which is a job) (Or get an agency to do it), but the landlord bit is definitely investing rather than working.

    Why couldn't he just say it ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    The evidence still suggests a dead heat. My instinct suggests Trump might shade the swing states, and he could take them all by a percentage point. But I am a natural pessimist in contrast to the PB Trump wishcasters who are convinced he is already a shoo in.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I did see the "KH: Joe Biden is perfectly fine and able, Interviewer: then why are you the candidate" exchange.

    V funny.

    But speaking of which I did hear Biden speak about something (could have been the Middle East) and he sounded perfectly compos mentis and aware. If a bit slow.
    He does appear to have good days and bad days, something for which anyone who knows an 80-year-old will be familiar.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    algarkirk said:

    RobD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    And how long before The SPLORG is at 51%? (47% in this Techne poll).
    Remind us again what that means?
    Everyone but the Big Two?
    Yes. The reason why it is interesting is its growth. In GE 2017 Lab/Con together was over 84%. Current polling makes it about 54/55%. This is a dramatic shift and if it falls much more will precipitate a huge shift in sentiment and political structure. Of course it may go the other way and return to normal, but if, for example, the LDs suddenly get interesting and gain 5 points, and Reform add a few points too then Con/Lab 46, SPLORG 54 will attract huge media interest and become a self generating story.

    Both Lab and Con are trying hard to bring this about. That is the only explanation for their current uselessness.
    Yes.

    Noticeable that the Lib Dems do not seem to be taking (much) advantage of this. I think they are seen as part of a Big Three.
    Yes perhaps. But the point of Lab/Con v SPLORG is that Lab/Con includes each of and only the parties that, conventionally, can form a government.

    At some point before eternity this will stop being the case. The SPLORG index is one number to track in the long and winding road to political reconfiguration.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Sir Keir Starmer is preparing to give ground on reparations amid demands from Commonwealth nations for payments of up to £18 trillion.

    The Prime Minister has rejected calls for financial reparations, but is reportedly considering non-cash options such as providing debt relief.

    Other possible options could include a formal apology, supporting public health institutions and educational programmes for students from Commonwealth nations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/25/keir-starmer-prepares-give-ground-commonwealth-reparations/

    Oh god. I hate him
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    It's possibly the biggest miss this board has ever had given the shilling for Harris over the last 2 months like she's Mother Theresa.
    She hasn't lost yet unless you know different.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Sean_F said:

    In terms of foreign policy I'm mostly sympathetic to "Realist" arguments, but I have no time for "Realists" who argue against supporting Ukraine, because the West has no strategic interest there.

    Our interest is this. Expansionist powers are rarely satisfied. Yes, you do get people like Frederick the Great and Bismarck, who will say "enough", and strive to live in peace with their neighbours, once they've got the territory that they wanted.

    But far more common (and especially, far more typical of Russian leaders), is to see a successful conquest as the springboard for fresh demands. If Ukraine goes, Russia will be pursuing its claims in the Baltic States, Moldova, and the Suwalki Gap.

    The whole of Europe is essentially relying on Poland to defend the line.

    Sadly, not for the first time.

    Boy, have we let that country down.
    The fun bit is already happening - Poland is seeing itself moving into a leading position in the EU. Rather than being given instructions...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,678

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    If he’d stood down sooner then she might not have been the nominee.
    That may not have been a bad thing. Either way, a primary campaign might have sharpened her campaigning skills, which have been pretty poor frankly.

    She has issues she could have engaged to drive up her (and the Democrats') vote, like abortion and Republican culture wars. She could have pinned inflation on Trump's deficits and demands for lax monetary policy. She could have gone a lot harder on Trump's stability a lot earlier. But she didn't.

    And it's almost certainly too late now.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,772
    The same commentators who are now saying Harris is a crap candidate will be calling her a political mastermind if she pulls off the win.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 29% (+1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 19% (=)
    LDM: 13% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 23-24 Oct.
    Changes w/ 16-17 Oct.

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1849747680097972329

    How long before Con + Rfm > 50%.
    If we take Labour as 6 points behind this vs. Tories and Reform (GE underperformance), we're one point away from right/left crossover.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.

    Where Kant lived all his life, never leaving. The greatest philosopher since Aristotle deserves better. (He would have loved the EU, as the start of a global project for peaceful coexistence)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Leon said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is preparing to give ground on reparations amid demands from Commonwealth nations for payments of up to £18 trillion.

    The Prime Minister has rejected calls for financial reparations, but is reportedly considering non-cash options such as providing debt relief.

    Other possible options could include a formal apology, supporting public health institutions and educational programmes for students from Commonwealth nations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/25/keir-starmer-prepares-give-ground-commonwealth-reparations/

    Oh god. I hate him
    SIR SHEER WANKER
  • What does Zak Crawley bring to this team.

    Burned a review too.

    Ditto Ollie Pope.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    algarkirk said:

    Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.

    Where Kant lived all his life, never leaving. The greatest philosopher since Aristotle deserves better. (He would have loved the EU, as the start of a global project for peaceful coexistence)
    SKS has a house there?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Leon said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is preparing to give ground on reparations amid demands from Commonwealth nations for payments of up to £18 trillion.

    The Prime Minister has rejected calls for financial reparations, but is reportedly considering non-cash options such as providing debt relief.

    Other possible options could include a formal apology, supporting public health institutions and educational programmes for students from Commonwealth nations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/25/keir-starmer-prepares-give-ground-commonwealth-reparations/

    Oh god. I hate him
    It's OK. He doesn't have £18 trillion. His government has more or less exactly minus £2.6 trillion rattling around in the piggy bank. He is more likely to ask West Indies to lend him a few quid to the end of the week.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,183
    Leon said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is preparing to give ground on reparations amid demands from Commonwealth nations for payments of up to £18 trillion.

    The Prime Minister has rejected calls for financial reparations, but is reportedly considering non-cash options such as providing debt relief.

    Other possible options could include a formal apology, supporting public health institutions and educational programmes for students from Commonwealth nations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/25/keir-starmer-prepares-give-ground-commonwealth-reparations/

    Oh god. I hate him
    Perhaps Rhodes scholarships could be extended to universities other than Oxford?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.

    Make it the EU version of Washington DC, their new capital city.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    England 20/3 oh feck.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    What if Labour are actually preparing a secret Truss for this budget next week and it's actually worse than expected and a complete disaster?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,183
    Sandpit said:

    Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.

    Make it the EU version of Washington DC, their new capital city.
    It used to be problematic but Euler sorted it by inventing topology.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,893
    Sandpit said:

    England 20/3 oh feck.

    At least we're in to the batsmen now.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    TOPPING said:

    Bad news for @Anabobazina. Just spent a few days in the Lake District. He would be seriously missing out on the nutty, seedy flapjack drizzled with Peruvian dark chocolate from the Honesty Box without £2 in readies.

    And if he pulled up his sleeve to activate the applepay on his watch the ceremonial horn would be blown and all the villagers would come out to gather round him and laugh.

    There are significant bits of the lake district (I live just outside it) where the internet/mobile phone stuff is better conducted by two treacle tins joined together with taut string. We nealry all have things called landlines here as well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,893

    What if Labour are actually preparing a secret Truss for this budget next week and it's actually worse than expected and a complete disaster?

    Is your mortgage fixed for a while ?
  • FossFoss Posts: 992
    edited October 25

    What if Labour are actually preparing a secret Truss for this budget next week and it's actually worse than expected and a complete disaster?

    Keir Major. The '92 parliament showed growth every quarter (but one) of its life and Major still lost. And it's not like Labour doesn't have it's own internal and external culture war issues...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Sandpit said:

    England 20/3 oh feck.

    I blame the idiot who gloated at 167/5.

    India, meanwhile, have not enjoyed themselves today.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060

    Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.

    It is especially bizarre when you consider that the region was taken over by the USSR. Ie. Stalin insisted that it became part of Russia, rather than the geographically sensible USSR state of Lithuania. It's as if he never believed that the USSR would stay together.
  • The evidence still suggests a dead heat. My instinct suggests Trump might shade the swing states, and he could take them all by a percentage point. But I am a natural pessimist in contrast to the PB Trump wishcasters who are convinced he is already a shoo in.

    So 269-269 and it goes to the House where Trump likely wins?
  • To continue with the part of th


    below, there could be worse
    strategies than trying to weaken Putin's prestige and regain global sympathy by painting Putin, accurately, as an imperial revivalist,
    through the proclaiming of a comparitively realist and moderate rhetoric on the contested areas.

    You would then have the advantage that it would much easier to frame it as a contest between democracy and sejf-detemination, and coercive, imperial revivalism.

    A problem is that I don't know if Zelensky could now be persuaded to accept this.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.

    Unfortunately the Germans were expelled in 1946 and replaced with Russians.

    So it is now as ethnically Russian as St Petersburg.

    Just as the problem in Crimea is when Stalin murdered all the Tartars he replaced them with Russians.
  • Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.

    Well good luck with that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    Biden should have stood by his promise in 2020 to be a bridge to future generations and prepared the way for a high-quality primary contest to find his successor.
    Some of us said this at the time and pointed out that Biden was obviously fucking gaga, and would end up resigning at the worst time, meaning the Dems would be left with Kamala as a far less than optimum candidate

    But the Regiment of Centrist Idiot Dads on PB went into full on denial. “Biden is fine”, “he likes falling over”, “he’s always dribbled a lot”. And here we are

    This would not have mattered if the actual US Democrats weren’t as feebly stupid as the PB Centrist Dads. But it seems they are
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    eristdoof said:

    Russia should be booted out of Kalinigrad.

    It's really Konigsberg and should either be a German exclave, or quasi Polish, or a new EU microstate.

    It is especially bizarre when you consider that the region was taken over by the USSR. Ie. Stalin insisted that it became part of Russia, rather than the geographically sensible USSR state of Lithuania. It's as if he never believed that the USSR would stay together.
    It’s not quite as simple as that. He wanted the strategic areas - and this includes Crimea, Kaliningrad (which was a vital port) and parts of Ukraine and Kazakhstan under the control of Russians because he knew the loyalty of many non-Russians to the Soviet Union was very limited. The last thing he wanted was ethnic rioting disrupting his control of key places. He hadn’t forgotten how easily the Germans took Ukraine and Lithuania because the Ukrainians and Lithuanians were delighted to see the Russians humiliated.

    Did he think the USSR would break apart? Probably not, as he likely thought nationalism would die away in the face of Communism. But he knew it stood on shaky foundations.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    glw said:

    TV panels, excluding low end LCD, its Samsung and LG who make them all in 2 factories. iPhone screen, its Samsung.

    My father is the sort of person who always picks Sony for any consumer electronics because they made Trinitron TVs.

    I might be wrong, but I get the feeling their brand power isn't anywhere near as strong in the West for some electrical items these days including TVs. Do they even still "make" laptops and phones?
    Sony’s revenues primarily come from camera sensors and professional camera equipment where they completely dominate.

    Edit: and audio gear where they hold a lot of patents.
    No it doesn't. It comes from gaming, music and TV/movies. Semiconductors is a big part but primarily Sony is now a media conglomerate with an electronics division attached rather than the other way around in the 00s.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,457
    Sandpit said:

    England 20/3 oh feck.

    Good job England bat....dee...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    What if Labour are actually preparing a secret Truss for this budget next week and it's actually worse than expected and a complete disaster?

    It would be a DREAM if Labour were preparing tax cuts and supply side reforms to kick start the economy - they will not do anything half so sensible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Foss said:

    What if Labour are actually preparing a secret Truss for this budget next week and it's actually worse than expected and a complete disaster?

    Keir Major. The '92 parliament showed growth every quarter (but one) of its life and Major still lost. And it's not like Labour doesn't have it's own internal and external culture war issues...
    err, that did come at the tail end of an 18-year Cons government and people were sick and tired of them (see also: 2024).

    Lab will get away with any god damn thing they choose to do and will still likely win a second term.

    Look at the Cons now and tell me whether anyone will be so put off whatever Lab does now that they will think they are a viable alternative. The Cons have two years (ie three years before the next GE) to find their Tone and they don't look like doing so.

    While I'm on the subject, the only hope for the Cons would be that after Kemi or BobbyJ for a few months everyone realises what a disaster it is for them to keep tacking right and some kind of charismatic White or indeed Of Colour Centrist Knight comes along and pitches themselves against the right and makes a plea for a return to the centre and brings enough people with them to re-orientate the party in that direction. Just as Kinnock and then Blair did to the Left back in the day.

    But this takes time and I don't expect it before 2029. Nor can I see who that person might be because the Cons are in a death spiral where the seeming aim is to appeal to every last Reform voter by increasingly bonkers right wing policies which are not those of a government in waiting.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    Biden should have stood by his promise in 2020 to be a bridge to future generations and prepared the way for a high-quality primary contest to find his successor.
    Some of us said this at the time and pointed out that Biden was obviously fucking gaga, and would end up resigning at the worst time, meaning the Dems would be left with Kamala as a far less than optimum candidate

    But the Regiment of Centrist Idiot Dads on PB went into full on denial. “Biden is fine”, “he likes falling over”, “he’s always dribbled a lot”. And here we are

    This would not have mattered if the actual US Democrats weren’t as feebly stupid as the PB Centrist Dads. But it seems they are
    I did lol.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Sandpit said:

    England 20/3 oh feck.

    Good job England bat....dee...
    Presumably Pope was playing as a night watchman? Otherwise we would have had someone like Gus Atkinson in instead.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    England 20/3 oh feck.

    Good job England bat....dee...
    Presumably Pope was playing as a night watchman? Otherwise we would have had someone like Gus Atkinson in instead.
    I think Crawley and Pope are playing as Key’s mates.
  • Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    Biden should have stood by his promise in 2020 to be a bridge to future generations and prepared the way for a high-quality primary contest to find his successor.
    Some of us said this at the time and pointed out that Biden was obviously fucking gaga, and would end up resigning at the worst time, meaning the Dems would be left with Kamala as a far less than optimum candidate

    But the Regiment of Centrist Idiot Dads on PB went into full on denial. “Biden is fine”, “he likes falling over”, “he’s always dribbled a lot”. And here we are

    This would not have mattered if the actual US Democrats weren’t as feebly stupid as the PB Centrist Dads. But it seems they are
    Still nobody on PB said PM Liz Truss would surprise on the upside, that would be a sign of being feebly stupid.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden should have stood down a lot earlier to give Harris more time to prepare for the election.

    Biden should have stood by his promise in 2020 to be a bridge to future generations and prepared the way for a high-quality primary contest to find his successor.
    Some of us said this at the time and pointed out that Biden was obviously fucking gaga, and would end up resigning at the worst time, meaning the Dems would be left with Kamala as a far less than optimum candidate

    But the Regiment of Centrist Idiot Dads on PB went into full on denial. “Biden is fine”, “he likes falling over”, “he’s always dribbled a lot”. And here we are

    This would not have mattered if the actual US Democrats weren’t as feebly stupid as the PB Centrist Dads. But it seems they are
    Still nobody on PB said PM Liz Truss would surprise on the upside, that would be a sign of being feebly stupid.
    A PB Centrist Dad speaks
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