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State of the Union, Week 8 – politicalbetting.com

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    Nor how many are RFK Jr or Tulsi Gabbard Democrats voting early for Trump.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Officer who shot Chris Kaba likely to face gross misconduct charges

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/chris-kaba-shooting-martyn-blake-police-officer-hfkvsxjqk

    Given that Sergeant Blake was very clearly innocent, it's unclear what form of gross misconduct he could be guilty of.

    The Met could be facing a huge unfair dismissal/victimisation claim.
    Like with Chris Kaba, some prejudicial information may not have been released.

    I remember that one copper was in a similar situation but was sacked for lying to the investigators/something came up in his vetting that had been previously been missed.
    I think it's much more likely that they're pursuing him out of bitterness of failing to get the jury to convict him, it's clear they have a vendetta against him because they need to show that they believe in BLM and all that other nonsense which was behind the CPS charging decision.
    I was pulled up a couple of hours ago for suggesting there are PB conspiracy theories on the lines of the conspiracy theory you have just outlined.
    Tbf this is straying into the territory you were describing

    But until the CPS provides a convincing explanation why they chose to prosecute such a clear cut case, and whoever made the decision to name the officer does the same, there's bound to be speculation over these actions

    Do you think it's impossible that there was woke-signalling from the CPS?
    I don't agree with the CPS decision but no.
    Perhaps a Gross Misconduct Hearing for the CPS officials who decided to charge?

    If it’s good for the police, it must good for them , right?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited October 22
    Andy_JS said:

    "Richard Tice MP 🇬🇧
    @TiceRichard
    This is truly shocking
    The Establishment knew of Kaba’s violent criminal past but chose to withhold it from the people.
    Police officer’s life ruined, many other officers terrified that not being supported, and trust in policing harmed.
    Shameful"
    https://x.com/TiceRichard/status/1848702272546521573

    Richard Tice also tweeted this one, asking for a severe punishment. #TwoTierTice :smile:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Officer who shot Chris Kaba likely to face gross misconduct charges

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/chris-kaba-shooting-martyn-blake-police-officer-hfkvsxjqk

    Given that Sergeant Blake was very clearly innocent, it's unclear what form of gross misconduct he could be guilty of.

    The Met could be facing a huge unfair dismissal/victimisation claim.
    Like with Chris Kaba, some prejudicial information may not have been released.

    I remember that one copper was in a similar situation but was sacked for lying to the investigators/something came up in his vetting that had been previously been missed.
    I think it's much more likely that they're pursuing him out of bitterness of failing to get the jury to convict him, it's clear they have a vendetta against him because they need to show that they believe in BLM and all that other nonsense which was behind the CPS charging decision.
    I was pulled up a couple of hours ago for suggesting there are PB conspiracy theories on the lines of the conspiracy theory you have just outlined.
    Tbf this is straying into the territory you were describing

    But until the CPS provides a convincing explanation why they chose to prosecute such a clear cut case, and whoever made the decision to name the officer does the same, there's bound to be speculation over these actions

    Do you think it's impossible that there was woke-signalling from the CPS?
    I don't agree with the CPS decision but no.
    Perhaps a Gross Misconduct Hearing for the CPS officials who decided to charge?

    If it’s good for the police, it must good for them , right?
    Starmer! Doesn't he run the CPS? Bastard!
  • MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Officer who shot Chris Kaba likely to face gross misconduct charges

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/chris-kaba-shooting-martyn-blake-police-officer-hfkvsxjqk

    Given that Sergeant Blake was very clearly innocent, it's unclear what form of gross misconduct he could be guilty of.

    The Met could be facing a huge unfair dismissal/victimisation claim.
    Like with Chris Kaba, some prejudicial information may not have been released.

    I remember that one copper was in a similar situation but was sacked for lying to the investigators/something came up in his vetting that had been previously been missed.
    I think it's much more likely that they're pursuing him out of bitterness of failing to get the jury to convict him, it's clear they have a vendetta against him because they need to show that they believe in BLM and all that other nonsense which was behind the CPS charging decision.
    I was pulled up a couple of hours ago for suggesting there are PB conspiracy theories on the lines of the conspiracy theory you have just outlined.
    Tbf this is straying into the territory you were describing

    But until the CPS provides a convincing explanation why they chose to prosecute such a clear cut case, and whoever made the decision to name the officer does the same, there's bound to be speculation over these actions

    Do you think it's impossible that there was woke-signalling from the CPS?
    I don't agree with the CPS decision but no.
    I think you meant yes?

    Or do you think it's possible that the CPS was being woke?

    I know double negatives can be confusing for some..
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    The vast majority of Haley Republicans will vote Trump.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    There are five pollsters over the past week, who 538 give a rating of 2.6 out of 3 or above to.

    Ipsos 3% Harris lead.
    Suffolk 1%.
    Emerson 1%.
    Fox -2%
    Atlas Intelligence -3%.

    Averaging those numbers gives a tie.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    The vast majority of Haley Republicans will vote Trump.
    Not "vast". They are still a live force in this election.

    They have more backbone than she does.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    The vast majority of Haley Republicans will vote Trump.
    Not "vast". They are still a live force in this election.

    They have more backbone than she does.
    Even Republicans who don't like Trump almost all vote Republican.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Richard Tice MP 🇬🇧
    @TiceRichard
    This is truly shocking
    The Establishment knew of Kaba’s violent criminal past but chose to withhold it from the people.
    Police officer’s life ruined, many other officers terrified that not being supported, and trust in policing harmed.
    Shameful"

    https://x.com/TiceRichard/status/1848702272546521573

    That's a load of bullshit tbh, the jury were given this information and it wouldn't have been released to the public until after any trial took place to ensure that a fair jury could be selected with no prejudice.
    No, I think it was withheld, and rightly so. They didn't know who was in the car. But, they knew the car's history, which is why armed police were deployed.
    Last time I was on jury duty ( Scotland ), they did not give out any detail, said criminal was painted white as snow despite nickname of Mugger. Jury was dire and he got of with lesser charge and it took about an hour afterwards to read out his record , judge was not at all happy. Perhaps changed nowadays.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    CatMan said:

    Officer who shot Chris Kaba likely to face gross misconduct charges

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/chris-kaba-shooting-martyn-blake-police-officer-hfkvsxjqk

    Well that will calm things down...
    We heard testimony that others in the fire-arms squad were on the point of discharging their weapons. How does that tally with Gross Misconduct?
    We don't know if the alleged Gross Misconduct was to do with the firing of the gun. It could be something else entirely to do with the evidential trail.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    The vast majority of Haley Republicans will vote Trump.
    Not "vast". They are still a live force in this election.

    They have more backbone than she does.
    Even Republicans who don't like Trump almost all vote Republican.
    I don’t think the evidence of the midterms necessarily supports that. Kari Lake, for example?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,792

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    North Carolina a worry for Harris you say? Well, look at these going off to vote early - with a marching band! Then tell me who is worried...

    (Of course, if Harris is anywhere near North Carolina, the only person worried is Trump.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkvhgJb17PA - at 6m51sec

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election#North_Carolina
    No aggregate poll has Trump more than 1% ahead - in a state he has to win.

    Show me the NC marching bands going out for Trump.
    i) Trump overperforms his polls
    ii) In Nevada the rurals are overperforming for Trump and the cities are underperforming for Harris.

    If we assume this urban/rural split is nationwide, she's dead.
    God help us all.
    Cue the Watchmen trailer... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7qj1VGlu5s&t=79s
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Yes I started my day with that unwelcome but interesting update. It had a big betting impact. Trump zoomed in from 2.3 to 1.6 for NV and from 1.72 to 1.62 overall.

    Mug money :smile:
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    Sean_F said:

    There are five pollsters over the past week, who 538 give a rating of 2.6 out of 3 or above to.

    Ipsos 3% Harris lead.
    Suffolk 1%.
    Emerson 1%.
    Fox -2%
    Atlas Intelligence -3%.

    Averaging those numbers gives a tie.

    Edit: Yougov also give a 3% lead.

    That puts Harris up 0.5%, with the top-rated pollsters.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited October 22

    PBers think that the USA is profoundly, tragically, dangerously polarized between Woke Libtards and MAGA-Maniacs? When as we Americans well know, the REAL national divide is over the pros and cons of . . . candy corn!

    AP - Love it or hate it, feelings run high over candy corn come Halloween

    Cruel joke for trick-or-treaters or coveted seasonal delight? The great Halloween debate over candy corn is on.

    In the pantheon of high-emotion candy, the classic shiny tricolor kernels in autumn’s white, orange and yellow are way up there. Fans and foes alike point to the same attributes: its plastic or candle-like texture (depending on who you ask) and the mega-sugar hit it packs.

    “I am vehemently pro candy corn. It’s sugar! What is not to love? It’s amazing. It’s like this waxy texture. You get to eat it once a year. It’s tricolor. That’s always fun,” comedian Shannon Fiedler gushed on TikTok. “Also, I know it’s disgusting. Candy corn is objectively kind of gross, but that’s what makes it good.” . . .

    Love it or loathe it, market leader Brach’s churns out roughly 30 million pounds of candy corn for the fall season each year, or enough to circle planet Earth about five times, the company says. Last year, that amounted to $75 million of $88.5 million in candy corn sales, according to the consumer research firm Circana. . . .

    https://apnews.com/article/candy-corn-halloween-trickortreat-384c51299fe00945c0e92b29cc3ff86a

    SSI - youse UKers may be asking, WTF is "candy corn"? See pix in AP report!

    For the PB record, yours truly is life-long, hard-core (or corn?) proponent AND consumer of candy corn.

    NOT that I actually eat the stuff these days, though might just have to nibble a wee bit before The Great Pumpkin makes its next appearence, just for old times sake.

    Gobble, gobble!

    My god. 52% by weight rapid acting sugars.

    No wonder the Trumpists are so excitable.

    Does that explain the Elon Musk pogo-sticking?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Officer who shot Chris Kaba likely to face gross misconduct charges

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/chris-kaba-shooting-martyn-blake-police-officer-hfkvsxjqk

    Given that Sergeant Blake was very clearly innocent, it's unclear what form of gross misconduct he could be guilty of.

    The Met could be facing a huge unfair dismissal/victimisation claim.
    Like with Chris Kaba, some prejudicial information may not have been released.

    I remember that one copper was in a similar situation but was sacked for lying to the investigators/something came up in his vetting that had been previously been missed.
    I think it's much more likely that they're pursuing him out of bitterness of failing to get the jury to convict him, it's clear they have a vendetta against him because they need to show that they believe in BLM and all that other nonsense which was behind the CPS charging decision.
    I was pulled up a couple of hours ago for suggesting there are PB conspiracy theories on the lines of the conspiracy theory you have just outlined.
    Tbf this is straying into the territory you were describing

    But until the CPS provides a convincing explanation why they chose to prosecute such a clear cut case, and whoever made the decision to name the officer does the same, there's bound to be speculation over these actions

    Do you think it's impossible that there was woke-signalling from the CPS?
    I don't agree with the CPS decision but no.
    I think you meant yes?

    Or do you think it's possible that the CPS was being woke?

    I know double negatives can be confusing for some..

    To be clear, no, I don't think it's possible that there was woke signalling from the CPS.

    I read your sentence several times and didn't pick up "impossible".
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Richard Tice MP 🇬🇧
    @TiceRichard
    This is truly shocking
    The Establishment knew of Kaba’s violent criminal past but chose to withhold it from the people.
    Police officer’s life ruined, many other officers terrified that not being supported, and trust in policing harmed.
    Shameful"

    https://x.com/TiceRichard/status/1848702272546521573

    That's a load of bullshit tbh, the jury were given this information and it wouldn't have been released to the public until after any trial took place to ensure that a fair jury could be selected with no prejudice.
    No, I think it was withheld, and rightly so. They didn't know who was in the car. But, they knew the car's history, which is why armed police were deployed.
    Last time I was on jury duty ( Scotland ), they did not give out any detail, said criminal was painted white as snow despite nickname of Mugger. Jury was dire and he got of with lesser charge and it took about an hour afterwards to read out his record , judge was not at all happy. Perhaps changed nowadays.
    I seem to remember that for centuries it was the case that past convictions couldn't be brought up in trial, but this was scrapped during the Blair years, much to the chagrin of the Magna Carta brigade.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/oct/25/ukcrime.immigrationpolicy1
  • Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    Yes, there’s been a large GOP effort put into advance voting in swing States, in a way that wasn’t the case in 2020.

    We’ll not know until the day, but Nevada was a Biden State and the demographic changes of the past four years should be in Harris’ favour.
    The concern looking at the early figure in Nevada is not so much the Republican surge but that the Clark County firewall looks to have fallen down.
  • MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Officer who shot Chris Kaba likely to face gross misconduct charges

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/chris-kaba-shooting-martyn-blake-police-officer-hfkvsxjqk

    Given that Sergeant Blake was very clearly innocent, it's unclear what form of gross misconduct he could be guilty of.

    The Met could be facing a huge unfair dismissal/victimisation claim.
    Like with Chris Kaba, some prejudicial information may not have been released.

    I remember that one copper was in a similar situation but was sacked for lying to the investigators/something came up in his vetting that had been previously been missed.
    I think it's much more likely that they're pursuing him out of bitterness of failing to get the jury to convict him, it's clear they have a vendetta against him because they need to show that they believe in BLM and all that other nonsense which was behind the CPS charging decision.
    I was pulled up a couple of hours ago for suggesting there are PB conspiracy theories on the lines of the conspiracy theory you have just outlined.
    Tbf this is straying into the territory you were describing

    But until the CPS provides a convincing explanation why they chose to prosecute such a clear cut case, and whoever made the decision to name the officer does the same, there's bound to be speculation over these actions

    Do you think it's impossible that there was woke-signalling from the CPS?
    I don't agree with the CPS decision but no.
    I think you meant yes?

    Or do you think it's possible that the CPS was being woke?

    I know double negatives can be confusing for some..

    To be clear, no, I don't think it's possible that there was woke signalling from the CPS.

    I read your sentence several times and didn't pick up "impossible".
    So you did mean yes, you think it's impossible?

    It's depressingly illuminating that I have to talk you through these simple words
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    The vast majority of Haley Republicans will vote Trump.
    Not "vast". They are still a live force in this election.

    They have more backbone than she does.
    Even Republicans who don't like Trump almost all vote Republican.
    Have you seen all the ex-Trump staffers who have said categorically they will not be voting for Trump?

    It's on a knife edge and I fear it will be a Trump College win. However the confidence of the PB conservatives (small c) belies the evidence available to date.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    The vast majority of Haley Republicans will vote Trump.
    Not "vast". They are still a live force in this election.

    They have more backbone than she does.
    Even Republicans who don't like Trump almost all vote Republican.
    I don’t think the evidence of the midterms necessarily supports that. Kari Lake, for example?
    Extreme case. She's as egregiously rude and crude as Trump, but lacks his charisma or power, and so significant numbers feel able to sit it out or go the other way, even for important jobs like Governor or Senator, when they wouldn't for the Presidency.

    It is still the case the vast majority even of Trump disliking GOP that will vote for him, but the hope would be in the really close states the, say, 5% who won't can tip the balance.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
  • malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Richard Tice MP 🇬🇧
    @TiceRichard
    This is truly shocking
    The Establishment knew of Kaba’s violent criminal past but chose to withhold it from the people.
    Police officer’s life ruined, many other officers terrified that not being supported, and trust in policing harmed.
    Shameful"

    https://x.com/TiceRichard/status/1848702272546521573

    That's a load of bullshit tbh, the jury were given this information and it wouldn't have been released to the public until after any trial took place to ensure that a fair jury could be selected with no prejudice.
    No, I think it was withheld, and rightly so. They didn't know who was in the car. But, they knew the car's history, which is why armed police were deployed.
    Last time I was on jury duty ( Scotland ), they did not give out any detail, said criminal was painted white as snow despite nickname of Mugger. Jury was dire and he got of with lesser charge and it took about an hour afterwards to read out his record , judge was not at all happy. Perhaps changed nowadays.
    I seem to remember that for centuries it was the case that past convictions couldn't be brought up in trial, but this was scrapped during the Blair years, much to the chagrin of the Magna Carta brigade.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/oct/25/ukcrime.immigrationpolicy1
    Magna Carta brigade? One of the most important founding documents on the limited sovereignty of those who govern us. Along with the American Constitution, and the King James Bible, the core of what we see as the Anglosphere (despite, ironically not being in English, but Latin and French).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Scott_xP said:
    50% of americans - "sounds good, I'm in". If Democrats win, as I hope, then even if the GOP disintegrate as they don't know what to do post Trump, then I also hope they take a deep hard look at themselves.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Andy_JS said:

    "Runnymede Trust
    @RunnymedeTrust
    ·
    21h
    The legal system doesn’t deliver real justice for families bereaved by racist state violence.

    Since 1990 there have been 1,904 deaths in or following police custody or contact. In that time, only one officer has been found guilty for manslaughter, and none for murder.



    This lack of police accountability perpetuates cycles of violence and impunity.

    Our thoughts and solidarity are with Chris' loved ones and wider community.

    Chris Kaba, 23.07.1999 - 05.09.2022
    #JusticeForChrisKaba"

    https://x.com/RunnymedeTrust/status/1848404667484569992

    Their thoughts are hoping for protests and disruptions more like.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    Yes, there’s been a large GOP effort put into advance voting in swing States, in a way that wasn’t the case in 2020.

    We’ll not know until the day, but Nevada was a Biden State and the demographic changes of the past four years should be in Harris’ favour.
    The concern looking at the early figure in Nevada is not so much the Republican surge but that the Clark County firewall looks to have fallen down.
    Clark County = Las Vegas, which must be a candidate for the highest turnover of individuals between elections in a normal year, let alone a year when baseline had half of the entertainment industry closed for a pandemic.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1848758963447157001

    National General Election

    🔴 Trump 47% (+2)
    🔵 Harris 45%

    Redfield & Wilton 10/21 LV
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Officer who shot Chris Kaba likely to face gross misconduct charges

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/chris-kaba-shooting-martyn-blake-police-officer-hfkvsxjqk

    Given that Sergeant Blake was very clearly innocent, it's unclear what form of gross misconduct he could be guilty of.

    The Met could be facing a huge unfair dismissal/victimisation claim.
    Like with Chris Kaba, some prejudicial information may not have been released.

    I remember that one copper was in a similar situation but was sacked for lying to the investigators/something came up in his vetting that had been previously been missed.
    I think it's much more likely that they're pursuing him out of bitterness of failing to get the jury to convict him, it's clear they have a vendetta against him because they need to show that they believe in BLM and all that other nonsense which was behind the CPS charging decision.
    I was pulled up a couple of hours ago for suggesting there are PB conspiracy theories on the lines of the conspiracy theory you have just outlined.
    Tbf this is straying into the territory you were describing

    But until the CPS provides a convincing explanation why they chose to prosecute such a clear cut case, and whoever made the decision to name the officer does the same, there's bound to be speculation over these actions

    Do you think it's impossible that there was woke-signalling from the CPS?
    I don't agree with the CPS decision but no.
    I think you meant yes?

    Or do you think it's possible that the CPS was being woke?

    I know double negatives can be confusing for some..

    To be clear, no, I don't think it's possible that there was woke signalling from the CPS.

    I read your sentence several times and didn't pick up "impossible".
    So you did mean yes, you think it's impossible?

    It's depressingly illuminating that I have to talk you through these simple words
    You caught me out good and proper. I am but an ill educated serf.

    @MarqueeMark gave me a royal spanking once by tricking me with "anti semantic" during a conversation about "anti-Semitism". That was far cleverer.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    The vast majority of Haley Republicans will vote Trump.
    Not "vast". They are still a live force in this election.

    They have more backbone than she does.
    Even Republicans who don't like Trump almost all vote Republican.
    I don’t think the evidence of the midterms necessarily supports that. Kari Lake, for example?
    Extreme case. She's as egregiously rude and crude as Trump, but lacks his charisma or power, and so significant numbers feel able to sit it out or go the other way, even for important jobs like Governor or Senator, when they wouldn't for the Presidency.
    At least she doesn't eat her pets, only shoots them when she wants a new one.

    I admit she's a bit confusable with Lauren Boebart.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Based on what @rcs1000, there isn't much campaigning happening there. Isn't it supposed to be one of Harris's key seven target states?
    I think she can win without it as it doesn't have that many EC votes, but given three target states were won by less than 1% last time (and another just over 1%), she certainly wouldn't want to lose one Biden got by over 2%.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    He told us so himself!!!
    Trump supporters either don't care, or think that he'll do some magical deal.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    Well. At least we can be reassured that our politicians are well prepared for the foreseeable chaos of a second Trump Presidency.

    Oh.

    In another timeline, Liz Truss would still be in Downing Street, ready to play ThatcherLaurel to his Reagan. Hardy
    FTFY
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,772
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Based on what @rcs1000, there isn't much campaigning happening there. Isn't it supposed to be one of Harris's key seven target states?
    I think she can win without it as it doesn't have that many EC votes, but given three target states were won by less than 1% last time (and another just over 1%), she certainly wouldn't want to lose one Biden got by over 2%.
    It’s quite difficult to get an EC permutation where Nevada is the crucial state. The one I’ve got to work is where Harris takes AZ, WI and PA and Trump takes the others - NV is then the tipping point.

    I’m not sure I see a scenario where Trump wins MI but loses WI and PA, but then if we’re talking very fine margins then I suppose it’s plausible.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,548
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    You also don't know how many are Nikki Haley Republicans voting early for Harris.
    The vast majority of Haley Republicans will vote Trump.
    Majority maybe, but vast? Doubt that! Unless perhaps you have evidence?

    Most Haley Republicans (as distinguished from will turn out to vote, certainly mostly for down-ballot GOPers.

    HOWEVER many will just as certainly skip the POTUS race . . . or vote for 3rd-party or write-in (as Jim Miller has indicated on here) . . . or even vote for (praise be! Kamala Harris.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Based on what @rcs1000, there isn't much campaigning happening there. Isn't it supposed to be one of Harris's key seven target states?
    I think she can win without it as it doesn't have that many EC votes, but given three target states were won by less than 1% last time (and another just over 1%), she certainly wouldn't want to lose one Biden got by over 2%.
    It’s quite difficult to get an EC permutation where Nevada is the crucial state. The one I’ve got to work is where Harris takes AZ, WI and PA and Trump takes the others - NV is then the tipping point.

    I’m not sure I see a scenario where Trump wins MI but loses WI and PA, but then if we’re talking very fine margins then I suppose it’s plausible.
    I've got Trump winning Georgia and Arizona, and based on what people are saying flipping Nevada as well. I don't think Harris will flip North Carolina, but may hold Wisconsin (that's not really based on anything but vague gut feeling) and Michigan.

    Which I think gets to 273-265 for Harris, if she can hold Pennsylvania, which right now I don't think she will, whch turns it into a comfortable 253-285 for Trump.

    So people are probably going to blame Harris for picking Walz over Shaprio as they key moment.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1848758963447157001

    National General Election

    🔴 Trump 47% (+2)
    🔵 Harris 45%

    Redfield & Wilton 10/21 LV

    Why do you only post Trump-favourable polls on PB? Whose mind are you changing? As far as I am aware only Jim and Seashanty have the vote.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Richard Tice MP 🇬🇧
    @TiceRichard
    This is truly shocking
    The Establishment knew of Kaba’s violent criminal past but chose to withhold it from the people.
    Police officer’s life ruined, many other officers terrified that not being supported, and trust in policing harmed.
    Shameful"

    https://x.com/TiceRichard/status/1848702272546521573

    That's a load of bullshit tbh, the jury were given this information and it wouldn't have been released to the public until after any trial took place to ensure that a fair jury could be selected with no prejudice.
    No, I think it was withheld, and rightly so. They didn't know who was in the car. But, they knew the car's history, which is why armed police were deployed.
    My mistake, even without that the jury was able to come to the correct decision. Being faced with a car that's linked to a gang shooting attempting to escape a police block by ramming down officers is a life threatening situation.
    The point is that it need only have been a life threatening situation from the POV of the officer. That is all he needed to demonstrate for a defence against the charge.

    WIthout seeing the CPS papers it's frankly impossible to know whether or not the decision to charge was fully justified - but it does require the CPS to have believed that there was a reasonable chance of conviction.
    On the bare facts we know, that's at least questionable.

    Note it doesn't appear that the officer knew who exactly it was in the car, and if so, Kaba's record was completely irrelevant, even to the officer's state of mind.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyly5122yeo
    ..Police officers did not know who was driving the Audi on the night Mr Kaba died, but they did know it had been used as a getaway car in another shooting in Brixton, south London, the night before...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1848758963447157001

    National General Election

    🔴 Trump 47% (+2)
    🔵 Harris 45%

    Redfield & Wilton 10/21 LV

    Why do you only post Trump-favourable polls on PB? Whose mind are you changing? As far as I am aware only Jim and Seashanty have the vote.
    In William's defence good polls for Harris will probably be posted by others anyway.

    Not in William's defence, several people post basically any poll, regardless of who it is positive for.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Richard Tice MP 🇬🇧
    @TiceRichard
    This is truly shocking
    The Establishment knew of Kaba’s violent criminal past but chose to withhold it from the people.
    Police officer’s life ruined, many other officers terrified that not being supported, and trust in policing harmed.
    Shameful"

    https://x.com/TiceRichard/status/1848702272546521573

    That's a load of bullshit tbh, the jury were given this information and it wouldn't have been released to the public until after any trial took place to ensure that a fair jury could be selected with no prejudice.
    No, I think it was withheld, and rightly so. They didn't know who was in the car. But, they knew the car's history, which is why armed police were deployed.
    Last time I was on jury duty ( Scotland ), they did not give out any detail, said criminal was painted white as snow despite nickname of Mugger. Jury was dire and he got of with lesser charge and it took about an hour afterwards to read out his record , judge was not at all happy. Perhaps changed nowadays.
    I seem to remember that for centuries it was the case that past convictions couldn't be brought up in trial, but this was scrapped during the Blair years, much to the chagrin of the Magna Carta brigade.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/oct/25/ukcrime.immigrationpolicy1
    The starting point remains that previous convictions are not mentioned in evidence at a trial. There are a number of grounds under which the prosecution can apply to the judge to let this evidence in, generally either because it is powerfully probative in a particular way of the defendant's guilt, or because the defence has attacked the character of others, thus de-levelling the pitch.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1848758963447157001

    National General Election

    🔴 Trump 47% (+2)
    🔵 Harris 45%

    Redfield & Wilton 10/21 LV

    Trump got 47% last time so at the moment a lot of Biden 2020 voters are wavering over Harris but not committed to Trump yet either
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited October 22

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    Yes, there’s been a large GOP effort put into advance voting in swing States, in a way that wasn’t the case in 2020.

    We’ll not know until the day, but Nevada was a Biden State and the demographic changes of the past four years should be in Harris’ favour.
    The concern looking at the early figure in Nevada is not so much the Republican surge but that the Clark County firewall looks to have fallen down.
    The main concern is not so much NV and its 6 votes it's what it would say about the election as a whole if NV is swinging to the GOP.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    Texas has the most counties of any US State, some of the 254 out West have tiny populations. Georgia is curiously 2nd in number of counties with 159.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    HYUFD said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1848758963447157001

    National General Election

    🔴 Trump 47% (+2)
    🔵 Harris 45%

    Redfield & Wilton 10/21 LV

    Trump got 47% last time so at the moment a lot of Biden 2020 voters are wavering over Harris but not committed to Trump yet either
    So long as Trump is not still underperforming polling and 47 is his ceiling, Harris still has a shot.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,548
    edited October 22
    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    In November 2020, Joe Biden/Kamala Harris received 22 votes here, versus 1 for Donald Trump/Mike Pence.

    Kalawao County in the state of Hawai'i . . . is the smallest county in the 50 states by land area and the second-smallest county by population, after Loving County, Texas.

    The county encompasses the Kalaupapa or Makanalua Peninsula, on the north coast of the island of Molokaʻi. The small peninsula is isolated from the rest of Molokaʻi by cliffs over a quarter-mile high; the only land access is a mule trail. . . .

    The Kingdom of Hawaiʻi, the Republic of Hawaiʻi, the Territory of Hawaii, and the state of Hawaii all exiled persons suffering from Hansen's disease (leprosy) to the peninsula, from 1866 to 1969. The quarantine policy was only lifted after effective antibiotic treatments were developed that could be administered on an outpatient basis and patients could be rendered non-contagious.

    Many residents chose to remain in their familiar community on the peninsula.[8] The state promised that they could live there for the rest of their lives . . . . the population [82 in 2020] consists of the remaining patients, plus state employees and park staff. . . .

    SSI - Kalapaupa leper colony is where Father Damien earned his sainthood . . . the hard way.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Hawaii
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalawao_County,_Hawaii
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Damien

    Addendum - in Loving Co, Texas in 2020 POTUS, result was Biden 4, Trump 60, other 2

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Texas
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_County,_Texas
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited October 22
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    Texas has the most counties of any US State, some of the 254 out West have tiny populations. Georgia is curiously 2nd in number of counties with 159.

    Knox County here is probably really annoyed at Foard County meaning they are not a perfect square like most of their Northern Texas fellows, at least the ones in their row.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    Yes, there’s been a large GOP effort put into advance voting in swing States, in a way that wasn’t the case in 2020.

    We’ll not know until the day, but Nevada was a Biden State and the demographic changes of the past four years should be in Harris’ favour.
    The concern looking at the early figure in Nevada is not so much the Republican surge but that the Clark County firewall looks to have fallen down.
    The main concern is not so much NV and its 6 votes it's about what it says about the election as a whole if NV is swinging to the GOP.
    That's exactly right.

    It is highly likely that all the States will swing together. If the Republicans take NV at a canter, they are likely to also win the rest of the battleground states.

    That said. I would avoid overreacting to one datapoint. The early voting data from Georgia was - I would suggest - pretty positive for the Democrats, and that seems to have been forgotten.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    ...
    kle4 said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1848758963447157001

    National General Election

    🔴 Trump 47% (+2)
    🔵 Harris 45%

    Redfield & Wilton 10/21 LV

    Why do you only post Trump-favourable polls on PB? Whose mind are you changing? As far as I am aware only Jim and Seashanty have the vote.
    In William's defence good polls for Harris will probably be posted by others anyway.

    Not in William's defence, several people post basically any poll, regardless of who it is positive for.
    Unless you're Yougov.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Based on what @rcs1000, there isn't much campaigning happening there. Isn't it supposed to be one of Harris's key seven target states?
    I think she can win without it as it doesn't have that many EC votes, but given three target states were won by less than 1% last time (and another just over 1%), she certainly wouldn't want to lose one Biden got by over 2%.
    It’s quite difficult to get an EC permutation where Nevada is the crucial state. The one I’ve got to work is where Harris takes AZ, WI and PA and Trump takes the others - NV is then the tipping point.

    I’m not sure I see a scenario where Trump wins MI but loses WI and PA, but then if we’re talking very fine margins then I suppose it’s plausible.
    Harris could also win with NV and NC, while losing PA.
    Which is actually not a wildly unrealistic scenario.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921

    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    In November 2020, Joe Biden/Kamala Harris received 22 votes here, versus 1 for Donald Trump/Mike Pence.

    Kalawao County in the state of Hawai'i . . . is the smallest county in the 50 states by land area and the second-smallest county by population, after Loving County, Texas.

    The county encompasses the Kalaupapa or Makanalua Peninsula, on the north coast of the island of Molokaʻi. The small peninsula is isolated from the rest of Molokaʻi by cliffs over a quarter-mile high; the only land access is a mule trail. . . .

    The Kingdom of Hawaiʻi, the Republic of Hawaiʻi, the Territory of Hawaii, and the state of Hawaii all exiled persons suffering from Hansen's disease (leprosy) to the peninsula, from 1866 to 1969. The quarantine policy was only lifted after effective antibiotic treatments were developed that could be administered on an outpatient basis and patients could be rendered non-contagious.

    Many residents chose to remain in their familiar community on the peninsula.[8] The state promised that they could live there for the rest of their lives . . . . the population [82 in 2020] consists of the remaining patients, plus state employees and park staff. . . .

    SSI - Kalapaupa leper colony is where Father Damien earned his sainthood . . . the hard way.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Hawaii
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalawao_County,_Hawaii
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Damien

    Addendum - in Loving Co, Texas in 2020 POTUS, result was Biden 4, Trump 60, other 2

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Texas
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_County,_Texas
    You know, that deserved a lot more likes. It's not often we get such a wonderfully gratuitous and useless piece of political and geographical trivia.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    Yes, there’s been a large GOP effort put into advance voting in swing States, in a way that wasn’t the case in 2020.

    We’ll not know until the day, but Nevada was a Biden State and the demographic changes of the past four years should be in Harris’ favour.
    The concern looking at the early figure in Nevada is not so much the Republican surge but that the Clark County firewall looks to have fallen down.
    The main concern is not so much NV and its 6 votes it's about what it says about the election as a whole if NV is swinging to the GOP.
    That's exactly right.

    It is highly likely that all the States will swing together. If the Republicans take NV at a canter, they are likely to also win the rest of the battleground states.

    That said. I would avoid overreacting to one datapoint. The early voting data from Georgia was - I would suggest - pretty positive for the Democrats, and that seems to have been forgotten.
    Also, the uncertainties around polling and voting registration are considerably higher than usual.
    Unless there's something earth shattering in the last couple of weeks, I think it will remain impossible to call with any confidence.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    Also: "how many dead" is a fucked up measure. It suggests that if the UK had been invaded by the Nazis in WW2, but only 150,000 people died in the invasion, then that would have been a better outcome than us - you know - fighting off the invasion.
    Which is of course the logic of many saturday morning posters so worried about the fate or Ukrainians, and many a Corbynistic 'peace' activist, on the presumption fighting is never the answer.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    This would be a lot more compelling argument if (a) Trump hadn't repeatedly praised the Russian attack, and recently criticized them for resisting, and (b) if his allies in the House of Representatives hadn't repeatedly opposed aid to Ukraine.

    I agree that Ukraine was invaded because Putin thought the US would do nothing. And he thought the US would do nothing, because of the nature of withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    But ultimately, Trump and his proxies have repeatedly backed Russia over Ukraine. So you'll forgive me if I think that a Trump victory would be anything other than a disaster for Ukraine.

    Also: "how many dead" is a fucked up measure. It suggests that if the UK had been invaded by the Nazis in WW2, but only 150,000 people died in the invasion, then that would have been a better outcome than us - you know - fighting off the invasion.
    Trump also told Europe to increase defence spending and stop relying on Russian energy.

    While Biden was VP to Obama who did nothing in response to Russian aggression and who sneered when Romney spoke about the danger from Russia.

    The leadership of the USA has been various levels of mediocre to bad for a long time.

    That's not going to change, its just a question of how mediocre and how bad according to your personal preferences.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    I feel like local government structure is where many nations can get really barmy, precisely because it is less important, so you can more historic oddities surviving, half baked meddling, and and a lack of central government care about what you end up with.

    Even in the USA where local government is more important than here I feel that is the case. I'm not even going to get into the whole unincorporated community thing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    You can lament the Dems not finding a more compelling candidate but what you cannot do is pretend that this is any sort of explanation for America (if they do) re-electing Donald Trump after he has shown in multiple ways and beyond a shred of doubt that he is unfit to be president.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    5.

    Things have simply been too close for me to feel it worth contemplating betting.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    Yes, there’s been a large GOP effort put into advance voting in swing States, in a way that wasn’t the case in 2020.

    We’ll not know until the day, but Nevada was a Biden State and the demographic changes of the past four years should be in Harris’ favour.
    The concern looking at the early figure in Nevada is not so much the Republican surge but that the Clark County firewall looks to have fallen down.
    The main concern is not so much NV and its 6 votes it's what it would say about the election as a whole if NV is swinging to the GOP.
    It looked like the GOP did better in NV in 2022 than in the other swing states so perhaps not a surprise.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,548
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    Texas has the most counties of any US State, some of the 254 out West have tiny populations. Georgia is curiously 2nd in number of counties with 159.

    As US territories > states and counties were created/divided/reorganized, several varient approaches including combinations:

    > in New England and other northern states esp those with strong NE influence, basic local government unit = town(ship) with counties being larger groups of town designated many for judicial purposes.

    > in Southeast states, counties were & still are basic unit of local government, thus (with exceptions noted below) tending to be smaller than further north; AND often with rather irregular (non-linear) boundaries based on rivers, streams, topography.

    > Alabama is notable exception; it's counties are pretty sizeable compared to it's neighbors; Georgia as Dr Foxy (a former Cracker) notes is exceptional the other way, with pretty small-sized counties.

    > Out West the counties get square-er and square-er, because boundaries were increasing based on US land survey boundaries.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    Two, but without the intense delight at lefties' tears. Left wing histrionics don't hold a particular charm for me. A bit of 3.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    I’ll bite. 2.5.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    Whatever the result I'll be highly amused at the bewailing of the side which lost.

    As to the consequences, well we'd have to see what and where they were - international effects being far more important to me than the details of abortion restrictions.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,548
    edited October 22
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    Texas has the most counties of any US State, some of the 254 out West have tiny populations. Georgia is curiously 2nd in number of counties with 159.

    Knox County here is probably really annoyed at Foard County meaning they are not a perfect square like most of their Northern Texas fellows, at least the ones in their row.

    In 1907, the Indian Territory and Oklahoma Territory were merged to form the State of Oklahoma. The grandfather of Will Rogers, a member of the IT legislature, played a major role in OK constitutional convention, which among other matters created new counties for the new state; in turn many were named after prominent members of the convention . . . including Rogers County.

    However, when he saw the proposed map, Rogers the Elder noted that one of his daughters lived just outside the boundaries of his namesake county. So he persuaded the legislature to make a small tweek . . . which put her just inside Rogers County.

    Look at the map of OK, and you can still see that jog in the line.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    5 too.

    I think Trump will be bad for America, judging by his first term:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/07/18/opinion/trump-presidency-record.html?unlocked_article_code=1.UE4.TGB_.-WANE-JR5Rb6#

    But it will be really crap for Ukraine. The rest of us can shrug and laugh.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited October 22
    Why you shouldn't always go after a dropped phone.

    A young woman spent hours trapped upside down after slipping between two boulders as she tried to retrieve her mobile phone during a hike in Australia.

    The woman - named in reports as Matilda Campbell - was walking in New South Wales' Hunter Valley region earlier this month when she fell into the three-metre crevice.

    It was the start of a seven-hour ordeal which would see emergency services undertake a "challenging" rescue - including moving several boulders.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgeyezggpezo
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited October 22

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    Indeed.

    I suspect that, if the election goes Trump’s way, there will be a large change in rhetoric but little change in facts on the ground. If anything, the absurdity of trying to micromanage the Ukranians’ use of individual weapons might come to an end.

    Instead of “$100bn in aid to Ukraine”, we’ll instead hear of “$100bn of investment in a new weapons system to keep America safe in the 2030s and support 25,000 jobs in Republican districts”, alongside the quiet disposal of a lot of old kit, sold to NATO allies for $1.

    He’ll also have a good go at getting everyone around the table, for the first time since the war started.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    I’ll bite. 2.5.
    7 tempered by 2
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    5 too.

    I think Trump will be bad for America, judging by his first term:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/07/18/opinion/trump-presidency-record.html?unlocked_article_code=1.UE4.TGB_.-WANE-JR5Rb6#

    But it will be really crap for Ukraine. The rest of us can shrug and laugh.
    If only - what happens in America has more impact than what happens here if we elected a Trump.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    Hmm. A bit of 3 a bit of 5 and a bit of 7.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    Texas has the most counties of any US State, some of the 254 out West have tiny populations. Georgia is curiously 2nd in number of counties with 159.

    Knox County here is probably really annoyed at Foard County meaning they are not a perfect square like most of their Northern Texas fellows, at least the ones in their row.

    In 1907, the Indian Territory and Oklahoma Territory were merged to form the State of Oklahoma. The grandfather of Will Rogers, a member of the IT legislature, played a major role in OK constitutional convention, which among other matters created new counties for the new state; in turn many were named after prominent members of the convention . . . including Rogers County.

    However, when he saw the proposed map, Rogers the Elder noted that one of his daughters lived just outside the boundaries of his namesake county. So he persuaded the legislature to make a small tweek . . . which put her just inside Rogers County.

    Look at the map, and you can still see that jog in the line.
    The panhandle state has its own panhandle county?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    You seem to have time jumped a point about what you lot will be doing if Trump dumps on Ukraine to a bleat about people blaming Trump (the chosen candidate of the party that continually blocked military aid to Ukraine) for the current situation, which afaIcs no one was doing.

    I don’t think anyone would say what PB Trumpers do is sophisticated enough to be called a playbook, but you could try and be a bit less obvious.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    5.

    Things have simply been too close for me to feel it worth contemplating betting.
    Instinctively 3, but then 6 because Ukraine.

    But also 8 - immediately check the actuarial tables, followed by 9 - realising he’s still better than his VP.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    MattW said:

    Why you shouldn't always go after a dropped phone.

    A young woman spent hours trapped upside down after slipping between two boulders as she tried to retrieve her mobile phone during a hike in Australia.

    The woman - named in reports as Matilda Campbell - was walking in New South Wales' Hunter Valley region earlier this month when she fell into the three-metre crevice.

    It was the start of a seven-hour ordeal which would see emergency services undertake a "challenging" rescue - including moving several boulders.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgeyezggpezo

    Sounds like the opening to a 127 hours sequel.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,548
    Seattle Times - Seattle arts funder, after Guardian report, disavows ‘hateful ideology’

    Andrew Conru — a Seattle tech entrepreneur who is emerging as a major local arts funder — distanced himself last week from several organizations that he has funded after an investigation published by British newspaper The Guardian. The article showed Conru funded an organization that has promoted the genetic superiority of certain ethnic groups.

    In emails sent to The Seattle Times last Thursday, Conru said he has stopped funding the Human Diversity Foundation and other groups. Conru also disavowed “racism, discrimination or hateful ideology,” attributed his contributions to insufficient due diligence, and said he has launched a review of his investments and donations.

    The Guardian report revealed that Conru, who made his wealth in a host of early web businesses, sent $1.3 million to the Human Diversity Foundation. The article was published last Wednesday following an investigation with U.K. advocacy group Hope Not Hate and German publications.

    A related investigation published by Hope Not Hate found that Conru provided funding to various other groups and people who have promoted white nationalist ideas and pseudoscientific studies trying to prove the supposed superiority of white people.

    The 56-year-old Seattle philanthropist, who purchased the former Lusty Lady building last year, said he thought he was supporting “nonpartisan academic research” at HDF. . . .

    “I now realize that my due diligence and ongoing monitoring process should have been more thorough,” Conru added. “Let me be unequivocally clear: I reject any form of racism, discrimination or hateful ideology.”

    Public tax filings for the Conru Foundation (a nonprofit established in 2017) do not show financial contributions to the Human Diversity Foundation. Conru said Thursday that the previously undisclosed $1.3 million in funding for HDF was separate from his foundations but declined to provide further details.

    In recordings reviewed by The Guardian, Matthew Frost — previously affiliated with HDF’s media arm — described Conru as the organization’s principal benefactor, having acquired a 15% stake in the group. . . .
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    You can lament the Dems not finding a more compelling candidate but what you cannot do is pretend that this is any sort of explanation for America (if they do) re-electing Donald Trump after he has shown in multiple ways and beyond a shred of doubt that he is unfit to be president.
    Just a case of fear of candidate A > fear of candidate B. You're entirely reasonable antipathy for Trump is blinding you to the numerous entirely understandable reasons lots of American voters think a Harris presidency will be very bad news for them personally.
    FWIW, I am 5 verging on 6 on the TimS reaction to Trump scale. Which is why I am so annoyed at the Dem party machine these last 8 years for not giving the country a non-awful alternative.
    (FWIW2, Joe Biden was not awful per se just 8 years too late.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    Indeed.

    I suspect that, if the election goes Trump’s way, there will be a large change in rhetoric but little change in facts on the ground. If anything, the absurdity of trying to micromanage the Ukranians’ use of individual weapons might come to an end.

    Instead of “$100bn in aid to Ukraine”, we’ll instead hear of “$100bn of investment in a new weapons system to keep America safe in the 2030s and support 25,000 jobs in Republican districts”, alongside the quiet disposal of a lot of old kit, sold to NATO allies for $1.

    He’ll also have a good go at getting everyone around the table, for the first time since the war started.
    I think you are prioritising hope over experience.

    US Aid to Ukraine stops in Trump's first month is my hunch.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    I’ll bite. 2.5.
    7 tempered by 2
    If you don't mind me saying you seem to have drifted politically rightwards - it was only a few years ago that you were a LibDem.

    Are there any particular reasons for this shift ?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    Indeed.

    I suspect that, if the election goes Trump’s way, there will be a large change in rhetoric but little change in facts on the ground. If anything, the absurdity of trying to micromanage the Ukranians’ use of individual weapons might come to an end.

    Instead of “$100bn in aid to Ukraine”, we’ll instead hear of “$100bn of investment in a new weapons system to keep America safe in the 2030s and support 25,000 jobs in Republican districts”, alongside the quiet disposal of a lot of old kit, sold to NATO allies for $1.

    He’ll also have a good go at getting everyone around the table, for the first time since the war started.
    I think you are prioritising hope over experience.

    US Aid to Ukraine stops in Trump's first month is my hunch.
    Quick decisions then needed in Europe. But none of us have the kit or the stocks to replace Uncle Sam. I would like to think that watching Ukraine fall will see us all fix that though.

    No consolation if you’re Ukrainian, mind.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,548
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    Texas has the most counties of any US State, some of the 254 out West have tiny populations. Georgia is curiously 2nd in number of counties with 159.

    Knox County here is probably really annoyed at Foard County meaning they are not a perfect square like most of their Northern Texas fellows, at least the ones in their row.

    In 1907, the Indian Territory and Oklahoma Territory were merged to form the State of Oklahoma. The grandfather of Will Rogers, a member of the IT legislature, played a major role in OK constitutional convention, which among other matters created new counties for the new state; in turn many were named after prominent members of the convention . . . including Rogers County.

    However, when he saw the proposed map, Rogers the Elder noted that one of his daughters lived just outside the boundaries of his namesake county. So he persuaded the legislature to make a small tweek . . . which put her just inside Rogers County.

    Look at the map, and you can still see that jog in the line.
    The panhandle state has its own panhandle county?
    Very small, Rogers Co. not even the largest panhandle county in OK; for example, Atoka & Pushmataha counties.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    Indeed.

    I suspect that, if the election goes Trump’s way, there will be a large change in rhetoric but little change in facts on the ground. If anything, the absurdity of trying to micromanage the Ukranians’ use of individual weapons might come to an end.

    Instead of “$100bn in aid to Ukraine”, we’ll instead hear of “$100bn of investment in a new weapons system to keep America safe in the 2030s and support 25,000 jobs in Republican districts”, alongside the quiet disposal of a lot of old kit, sold to NATO allies for $1.

    He’ll also have a good go at getting everyone around the table, for the first time since the war started.
    Sadly, I think you (and your wife) will be disappointed.

    Look at what Trump said last week, when he criticized the Ukrainans for defending their country. Who is going to be pushing for aid to them?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    You can lament the Dems not finding a more compelling candidate but what you cannot do is pretend that this is any sort of explanation for America (if they do) re-electing Donald Trump after he has shown in multiple ways and beyond a shred of doubt that he is unfit to be president.
    Just a case of fear of candidate A > fear of candidate B. You're entirely reasonable antipathy for Trump is blinding you to the numerous entirely understandable reasons lots of American voters think a Harris presidency will be very bad news for them personally.
    FWIW, I am 5 verging on 6 on the TimS reaction to Trump scale. Which is why I am so annoyed at the Dem party machine these last 8 years for not giving the country a non-awful alternative.
    (FWIW2, Joe Biden was not awful per se just 8 years too late.)
    The Dems should absolutely have gone with Biden in 2016.

    Hillary Clinton was the worst candidate of all time, except now for Kamala Harris.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,851
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    Texas has the most counties of any US State, some of the 254 out West have tiny populations. Georgia is curiously 2nd in number of counties with 159.

    Knox County here is probably really annoyed at Foard County meaning they are not a perfect square like most of their Northern Texas fellows, at least the ones in their row.

    pedant alert:

    You can't have perfect square areas on the surface of a globe.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    5 too.

    I think Trump will be bad for America, judging by his first term:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/07/18/opinion/trump-presidency-record.html?unlocked_article_code=1.UE4.TGB_.-WANE-JR5Rb6#

    But it will be really crap for Ukraine. The rest of us can shrug and laugh.
    I think the chaos of Trump's first term was worse than any of his policies, he didn't really get much done.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    This would be a lot more compelling argument if (a) Trump hadn't repeatedly praised the Russian attack, and recently criticized them for resisting, and (b) if his allies in the House of Representatives hadn't repeatedly opposed aid to Ukraine.

    I agree that Ukraine was invaded because Putin thought the US would do nothing. And he thought the US would do nothing, because of the nature of withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    But ultimately, Trump and his proxies have repeatedly backed Russia over Ukraine. So you'll forgive me if I think that a Trump victory would be anything other than a disaster for Ukraine.

    Also: "how many dead" is a fucked up measure. It suggests that if the UK had been invaded by the Nazis in WW2, but only 150,000 people died in the invasion, then that would have been a better outcome than us - you know - fighting off the invasion.
    Trump also told Europe to increase defence spending and stop relying on Russian energy.

    While Biden was VP to Obama who did nothing in response to Russian aggression and who sneered when Romney spoke about the danger from Russia.

    The leadership of the USA has been various levels of mediocre to bad for a long time.

    That's not going to change, its just a question of how mediocre and how bad according to your personal preferences.
    Europe did both of those things.

    Albeit they only did the second after the invasion of Ukraine.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    TimS said:

    If Trump wins what will be your emotions on the morning of the 6th:

    1. Sheer unfettered delight. A new dawn has broken for our American cousins
    2. Mild cheer, coupled with intense delight at the tears of the lefties
    3. Indifference, it's a foreign country so what does it have to do with me?
    4. Mild disappointment tempered by a frisson of schadenfreude re libs tears
    5. Oh FFS, I just knew that senile old narcissist would sneak in again (that'll be me)
    6. Shock and a deep sense of foreboding that perhaps the apocalypse is nigh
    7. Checks winnings or losses on bets and determines degree of cheerfulness on that basis?

    5 and 7 (a big loss without checking) so a double whammy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    Why you shouldn't always go after a dropped phone.

    A young woman spent hours trapped upside down after slipping between two boulders as she tried to retrieve her mobile phone during a hike in Australia.

    The woman - named in reports as Matilda Campbell - was walking in New South Wales' Hunter Valley region earlier this month when she fell into the three-metre crevice.

    It was the start of a seven-hour ordeal which would see emergency services undertake a "challenging" rescue - including moving several boulders.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgeyezggpezo

    Sounds like the opening to a 127 hours sequel.
    I have hard of a couple of horror stories from hikers in the UK when they get into trouble. Which is why things like SPOT EPIRBs (*) are so vital. Annoyingly, until 2012, they were illegal to use on land in the UK.

    If I was doing another remote long-distance walk in the UK, I'd carry one of whatever type.

    https://www.findmespot.com/en-gb

    (*) Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Out of Biden, Harris and Trump, which is most likely to order a strike against Russia? (Not a prediction that they would, but which is the most likely to do so?)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    This would be a lot more compelling argument if (a) Trump hadn't repeatedly praised the Russian attack, and recently criticized them for resisting, and (b) if his allies in the House of Representatives hadn't repeatedly opposed aid to Ukraine.

    I agree that Ukraine was invaded because Putin thought the US would do nothing. And he thought the US would do nothing, because of the nature of withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    But ultimately, Trump and his proxies have repeatedly backed Russia over Ukraine. So you'll forgive me if I think that a Trump victory would be anything other than a disaster for Ukraine.

    Also: "how many dead" is a fucked up measure. It suggests that if the UK had been invaded by the Nazis in WW2, but only 150,000 people died in the invasion, then that would have been a better outcome than us - you know - fighting off the invasion.
    Trump also told Europe to increase defence spending and stop relying on Russian energy.

    While Biden was VP to Obama who did nothing in response to Russian aggression and who sneered when Romney spoke about the danger from Russia.

    The leadership of the USA has been various levels of mediocre to bad for a long time.

    That's not going to change, its just a question of how mediocre and how bad according to your personal preferences.
    Europe did both of those things.

    Albeit they only did the second after the invasion of Ukraine.
    So they didn't do the second.

    And bar a few countries in eastern Europe they've didn't do the first either and still haven't in some cases.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...Ralston saying the early data in Nevada looks bad for the Dems...

    It does. Reps are in the lead in Nevada in early voting

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
    Early voting in Nevada does look bad for Harris, but you can never tell if Republicans are simply switching over to advance voting, instead of leaving it till the day.
    Or how they are voting…
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting looking at the 2020 presidential results page on wiki, with 4 of the top 5 highest percentage Republican vote in Texas (93-96%), though the state as a whole was 52-47.

    Probably really tiny counties. The Democrat's most overwhelming percentage was some place in Hawaii with under 100 people.

    Texas has the most counties of any US State, some of the 254 out West have tiny populations. Georgia is curiously 2nd in number of counties with 159.

    Knox County here is probably really annoyed at Foard County meaning they are not a perfect square like most of their Northern Texas fellows, at least the ones in their row.

    pedant alert:

    You can't have perfect square areas on the surface of a globe.
    On any non-Euclidean plane, please. :)

    (Waits for someone to say there are other cases...)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    If Trump does win at least we'll all get to feel really smug when he abandons Ukraine to Russia and say "We told you so"

    Oh, I think I can imagine the exculpations.

    It’s the Dems’ fault for choosing a loser and Putin invaded while Biden was in charge leaving Trump to clean up the mess (cough, Afghanistan) and the Dems didn’t work with the Reps thus FORCING the latter to block aid for Ukraine.
    Etc.
    Well, yes, obviously if Trump wins I think it's reasonable to blame the Dems for picking a candidate so weak she came up short against the most awful candidate the GOP have ever put up. Why wouldn't it?
    So assuming you took in the original point about Ukraine, you will be blaming the Dems if Trump sharts all over the Ukes? Good to know.
    What's the death toll of Ukes under Biden versus under Trump so far?

    Biden failed to deter Putin and failed to give Ukraine adequate means to defend himself. People need to stop using Trump as a scapegoat.
    This would be a lot more compelling argument if (a) Trump hadn't repeatedly praised the Russian attack, and recently criticized them for resisting, and (b) if his allies in the House of Representatives hadn't repeatedly opposed aid to Ukraine.

    I agree that Ukraine was invaded because Putin thought the US would do nothing. And he thought the US would do nothing, because of the nature of withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    But ultimately, Trump and his proxies have repeatedly backed Russia over Ukraine. So you'll forgive me if I think that a Trump victory would be anything other than a disaster for Ukraine.

    Also: "how many dead" is a fucked up measure. It suggests that if the UK had been invaded by the Nazis in WW2, but only 150,000 people died in the invasion, then that would have been a better outcome than us - you know - fighting off the invasion.
    Trump also told Europe to increase defence spending and stop relying on Russian energy.

    While Biden was VP to Obama who did nothing in response to Russian aggression and who sneered when Romney spoke about the danger from Russia.

    The leadership of the USA has been various levels of mediocre to bad for a long time.

    That's not going to change, its just a question of how mediocre and how bad according to your personal preferences.
    Europe did both of those things.

    Albeit they only did the second after the invasion of Ukraine.
    So they didn't do the second.

    And bar a few countries in eastern Europe they've didn't do the first either and still haven't in some cases.
    Dude:

    They proved they weren't reliant on Russian energy. Russian gas was turned off, and the lights and power stayed on across Europe.

    Indeed, we - who essentially didn't buy any Russian gas - were more affected than most European countries, because it turns out that energy is fungible.

    The Europeans incurred no economic penalty from having imported Russian gas. Indeed, the people who lost out were the Russians, because they had no alternative markets for the gas.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551

    Out of Biden, Harris and Trump, which is most likely to order a strike against Russia? (Not a prediction that they would, but which is the most likely to do so?)

    It has to be Trump. He is by far the craziest.
    Putin might be having second thoughts.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 426

    Out of Biden, Harris and Trump, which is most likely to order a strike against Russia? (Not a prediction that they would, but which is the most likely to do so?)

    I reckon Harris, definitely not Trump.
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